Anyone here doing keto? It's fucking 10/10 for health

unintentional keto cause I don't eat carbs

>>38661619
I switched to paleo. ~100-150g carbs daily, more for cardio days. It's fuarking joocy.

>>38661619

no because the jury is still out on whether or not it's good or bad for you

prefer to eat a well balanced diet instead

>>38661619
People started saying keto gives diabetes so I don't know what to think of it now

I'm type 1 diabetic and do keto. Works great for me but there are times I really crave carbs

>>38661619
>It's fucking 10/10 for health and fat loss.

fat loss is about a calorie deficit, stop fooling yourself with this meme.

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>>38661619
is that raw hamburger?

>>38661619

>It's fucking 10/10 for health

It's nearly the exact opposite of what the world would collectively call a healthy diet

>>38661894
Lolwut? Diabetics use it to flatten blood sugar. See >>38661937

>>38661952
Duh. Keto kills appetite and has the body breaking down and burning fat 24/7 instead of blood sugar. It's a tool that makes a caloric deficit a breeze.

>>38661973
Ketoed for a year. Greatly improved my bloodwork. My ratios were below the scale and my good cholesterol was stellar.

If you are on a deficit the saturated fat is used as fuel instead of clogging arteries.

>>38662034
I guess do whatever you can to get in that deficit.
I eat the same way i do when i bulk but just stay to a deficit and never have any issues

>>38662034

>Greatly improved my bloodwork

While you were losing weight? I would imagine any diet that caused weight loss would improve some aspects of bloodwork

> My ratios were below the scale and my good cholesterol was stellar.

What about your bad cholesterol? That's considered more important

>If you are on a deficit the saturated fat is used as fuel instead of clogging arteries.

That's not how it works

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>>38661619
Been doing keto almost a year now. Lost 95 pounds while lifting at least three times a week. Grill saw my drivers licence and said "wow u got buff." feels good man. I added cardio this last Spring and do 30 mins on the tready, bout 3.25 miles easy peasy. Only downside to keto is my lifts have been stalled for months (6'1", 190lbs, can only bench 145 x3) probably due to calorie deficit, and i have super low blood pressure now; have to be careful when I get off the couch.

>>38662057
>have to be careful when I get off the couch.
do you get light headed sometimes? making sure it wasn't just me

>>38662049
You cut out 1/3 of your macros and you can reduce your calories while keeping your protein high. You can go on huge deficits and fasts without feeling hungry or losing strength.

>>38662051
>What about your bad cholesterol? That's considered more important
Yes, that's what I meant by ratios. Bad cholesterol and triglycerides were abnormally low and the abnormally high good cholesterol made my ratios below the scale.
>That's not how it works
The liver converts these triglycerides to ketone bodies.

>>38662057
I got down to 107/73 with @ 46bpm resting.

>>38662090
>do you get light headed sometimes?
yup. i drench everything i eat in salt but can still get close to passing out if i stand up too quickly, esp after fasted cardio

>>38662121
Supplement potassium while in keto instead of just salt. Salt substitute is pure potassium chloride and cheap.

>>38662057
Keto will destroy your lifts. It's fantastic for most everything else but you can't sustain lifting and other high intensive efforts on it.

>>38661619
Is nobody going to comment on the beef?

Ground beef really shouldn't be that pink. Shit looks cold in the center Jesus christ

>>38662135
brah I sup that dere electrolytes like crazy. salt, potassium, magnesium, zinc etc. I eat at least one medium avocado a day for potassium, plus 2 potassium gluconate pills, magnesium oxide and citrate pills, zinc from multi, etc. and 3-5 servings of LyteShow in water a day. The only thing I haven't done yet is take straight up salt pills but might have to.

>>38662141
The thing is I never actually get tired at the gym on keto. I can fuck around doing endless compounds and accessories for 2-3 hours, or hop off the treadmill and on to a stationary bike for an unplanned 30 min ride, and not feel tired as long as I've still got water with LyteShow in it. I'm starting to think it is preventing gainz, though I'm still losing weight so that has something to do with it.

>>38662141
Losing glycogen takes away your explosive energy, but you just seem to drop to a lower baseline and go a little slower. I still made strength gains if I kept my protein high.

If you outpace your ability to metabolize fat, you go into gluconeogensis and start burning protein(muscle) for fuel. That's where the ammonia smell comes from when you over do it.

>>38662034

post bloodwork stats

>>38661619
you should always cook ground beef all the way through unless you want many different preventable diseases or parasites. dont care if you like the taste, just eat some shitty steak then.

>>38662190
Be careful if taking potassium pills. It gives me terrible heart burn.

>The thing is I never actually get tired at the gym on keto.
You are using fat instead of stored glycogen and blood sugar. Technically you are already past "the wall" already so you never feel tired if you don't outpace your liver's ability to make ketone bodies. I can go on forever, but my intensity is less.

>>38662204
If this thread is still up when I get to my apartment, I'll go find the papers.

>raw ground beef
jesus christ op

>>38661619

>10/10 for health
>posts pic of processed meat and fatty red meat with cheese melted on it with no vegetables

How do I keto vegetarian. Is it even possible

>>38662312
i'm vegetarian as well and yeah it's pretty impossible i'd say.

keto's a meme anyway

>>38662335
you're a meme 38662335

>>38662358
slightly laughed

>>38662101
>46 resting BPM
Holy fuck that hella good. Cant beat my 1bpm resting tho

>>38662057
>can only bench 145 x3
I hope thats kilograms m8.

>>38662057
Do you have a specific diet on keto? Or is it just no carbs and a deficit?

Totally anecdotal, but at least in a sample size of 1, keto is most certainly not a meme.

My dad had debilitating hip and shoulder pain from his days as a college athlete. It got to the point where the person who was once the strongest man I knew looked feeble and frail.
When he started a keto diet, in about a month, he was fully mobile again, and now a year later he considers himself to be in the best shape of his life (which I can hardly argue with).

To be clear, he was not overweight or particularly out of shape before starting the diet, just really bad shoulder and hip pain. Now he's stronger than I've ever seen him.

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So, if I do an ec stack, along with a keto diet, along with an effective 5 day split, along with 5 miles of walking a day (3 when I wake up, one as warm up to lift, one as cooldown), will I be the ultimate meme?


And also will I lose a lot of weight?

>>38661937
Diet soda and 10kcal jello.
Or the old caffeine, broccoli, and tears

>>38662462
>Always chubby.

>Keto
>1.3g protein/lb of body fat.
>2xweek 2 mile run + hour of fight
>3xweek 5k run
>1xweek 10k run
>3xweek heavy bodypart split
>All cardio fasted w/ 15mg yohimbine hcl
>Black coffee and preworkout until dinner after lifts

>Abs in 4 months.

>>38662101
>You can go on huge deficits and fasts without feeling hungry or losing strength.

Yeah on I have to call bullshit on this one specially the strength part

>>38662509
The catabolic effects of protein, especially protein shakes give more satiety longer thus leading to easier cuts fampai

>>38662509
>>38662533
Idk about the strength part tho

>>38662509
>>38662533
I would not mind taking a couple extra months cutting but I want to keep my hard earned strength and not lose it all while cutting

>>38662509
>>38662533
>>38662537
>>38662540
My lifts went down slightly, but never reduced below that baseline. When I kept my protein up, I very slowly made strength gains.

>>38662540
Well with all the protein and the alleged affects of keto, it seem that little muscle if an will be used as fuel, and fat almost exclusively used instead, as a result of cutting meaning you should be able to maintain your strength

>>38662558
If any*

>>38662533

>protein shakes
>on keto

wut

keto is high fat low protein

>>38662574
I thought it was lo carb soory

>>38662558

Metabolically, keto isn't any better at sparing muscle than a similar deficit with carbs (provided protein remains reasonable).

Where it really murders your strength is in the moderate rep range more than anything else, although being depleted alone will tend to take a bit off your maxes as well.

>>38662558
Seems like it from my experience. You do drop water and glycogen, so your muscles look

I've heard there is a "protein sparing effect"

>>38662574
>>38662578
Protein shakes have like 1 or 2g carbs per serving

>>38662590
Keto isn't absolutely no carb isn't it? I thought it was just below like 20g?

>>38662462
Pls respond

>>38662596
That's the "standard". Depends on spacing through the day and when you exercise.

I can stay in keto up to maybe 60g if I've been doing it for a while. That means maybe 1 cookie a day.

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>>38662610
Oh fuck one whole cookie? Youre a madman

>>38662596

The exact amount varies, but 20-30g a day is pretty standard. Thing is, you've got to account for all the incidental carbs in your diet so you don't always have a lot of room to be throwing in even relatively low carb stuff like whey protein.

>>38662596
>>38662610
Don't forget, US labels count fiber as carbs. Doesn't count because it's its digestible. So "net carbs" = carbs - fiber.

>>38662618
Snickers mini icecream bars are 9 carbs
70% Dark chocolate is like 3 carbs

You have to test and know your limits

>>38662625
Does isolate protein have any carbs?

Been doing on and off past few weeks and currently at night one of no carbs having only eaten a small serving of lamb. How long does it take to fully adjust and not feel like walking a hungry walking death.

I'm skinny fat who's now almost skinny, but I'm worried about losing heart muscle and the like. Is long term keto viable with zero carbs and does it treat mental illness outside epilepsy?

Use a daily 20mg vyvance to help on my IF days to fight the hungry pains but I'd like seen off it.

How many carbs kick you out of keto? And does it take 8 or 12 hours for the body but to no male the switch?

>>38662632

Yes, but barely any. Usually about a gram per serve.

>>38662034
you fucking retard, eating meat increases diabetes because the saturated fat kills insulin producing cells

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>>38662728

>>38662312
>mfw you want to do 2 meme diets at once
how about keto vegan juicing?

>>38662590

but protein shakes have protein which gets turned into carbs if you eat too much

>>38662826
>if you eat too much
This only happens if you eat 300g and sit around all day.

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>>38662837

keto macros are recommended as 75%+ fat to avoid this. protein is anti-ketogenic.

>>38662851
Ok, well, I lift a lot. So I don't do that. Keto sticks always show positive and I'm at 40% protein.

I'm keto, lost 30lbs and gained strength. Works for me. Fuck you guys.

>>38662789
>>38662807
>>38662823
>>38662846
>>38662915
Keto kills your cravings. The only thing I really miss sometimes is cornbread.

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>>38662948

>>38661619
>It's fucking 10/10 for fat loss.
probably
>for health
AYYY Y LMAO

>>38662728
The bun and fries meat is often eaten with are what block its proper metabolism and cause that to happen

>>38662462
You're doing low effort cardio, so yeah. HIIT is proven to be the best.

>>38662499
What height + weight were you when you started, and when you finished?

>>38663315
I'm a fat fuck famalamadingdong. Not hamplanet size but definitely fat, don't wanna fuck up me joints yet so I'll stick to low effort cardio like biking, swimming or walking

from years of observation I know that literally all ketofags are either skinnyfat or overweight and that they could get the same """results""" from just eating a normal diet with right calorie deficit
I just can't take them or their arguments seriously until that changes

>>38662312
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QvoVxcDgVr8
Watch that

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Keto is for weightloss and that's only for the lazy fucks who can't be bothered to count calories

>>38661619
Have been doing it for four years, obviously not eating at a deficit. It cured me of chronic, bloody, explosive diarrhea and other digestive trouble. Never looking back. Carbs are poison.

>>38661654
>well balanced

Biggest meme in history.

>>38662712
Yes, keto cures depression, and even schizophrenia. I know that sounds far-fetched since schizophrenia is a lot harder to manage than depression, but here's the source: http://www.medicaldaily.com/ketogenic-diet-may-help-patients-manage-schizophrenia-how-high-fat-low-carb-foods-366144

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>>38662728
You're a retard. Keep snarfing that sweet stuff.

>>38664601
>"ketogenic diet MAY help patients MANAGE schizophrenia ..."
>OMG GUYS KETO CURES SCHIZO

Be careful Keto causes hair loss. Learnt that the hard way

Keto is for people who are literally too lazy to stop eating the foods that got them fat in the first place and try calorie counting. It reels people in because you lose lots of weight in the first few weeks, but this is water weight so meaningless. The moment you stop keto you'll bounce right back up on the weight scale. And in terms of general health there aren't many fad diets worse.

Sources: tried it and have friends who tried it, gf does medicine and has said on many occasions that keto is essentially bs and atkins is a hack. Also numerous studies in medical journals

>>38661641
you dont need more carbs for cardio

>>38661654
>well balanced
as in?

>>38661894
keto is unhealthy if u use butter and egg yolks too much

>>38661952
>fat loss is about a calorie deficit
kys retard

>>38661957
its a meatball. dont u know what a hamburger is?

>>38661973
that doesnt mean anything tho

>>38661619
Anything made from ground beef is supposed to be cooked all way through. Unless you ground it yourself.

Give me a sample Keto diet that isn't just hurr durr meat wrapped in bacon

I mean meat is great but even then you can get tired of it

>>38662499
>0 food and only caffiene until the evening
You must have nothing going on in your life.

Retarded fad for people with taste buds that never developed beyond their 6th year of life.
>wahhh momma lettuce is gross give us another slice of bacon

>>38661619
you're literally giving yourself brain damage with keto. But at least you're losing weight, right?

>>38661619
>keto
>10/10 for health
You're a funny guy anon

>>38666147
If he's dumb enough to do keto he prob already has brain damage

>>38662335
>keto's a meme
>coming from a cucketarian

>>38664850
Kek

>>38666147
>>38666163

What is this about brain damage? To my understanding keto is actually improves Brian function as seen in epileptics. Or are you just counter memeing because you are hating on the weight loss potential because it eats gains?

Also can anymore write up a short pro and con list to keto, seems to be alot of disinformation being throw around.

Can anyone rec me some good keto recipes? I think just about everything I cook has carbs in it.

Always get the keto rash 3 days into keto. How do I prevent it without antibiotics?

>>38667204
stop doing meme diets

>>38663749

Stair climbers ascending are low impact, because you don't come down on your knees directly, you lift your bodweight up. Running down stairs destroys your joints. I do 100 floors in 20 minutes in 30 second all out speed followed by 2 minutes of moderate intensity.

The only carbs I consume are oats, from fruit & non starchy vegetables.

Started this after I "retired" from competitive lifting. Lost 40 lbs in 2 months and barely lost any strength.

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>>38661619
If you're going to be doing that, maybe you should adding a few healthier fats and protein? Like avocado and turkey, maybe.

>>38661894
Nobody knows the cause of diabetes for sure, except being a lazy fat ass (and/or bad genetics) is known to make you more likely to get it.

>>38661957
It looks... ...really rare. Atleast there's no blood that I can see.

>>38662728
I... I don't even know where to begin on this one.

>>38664576
Just curious, what kind of carbs were you eating prior? Simple carbs like white bread? Or complex carbs, like brown rice? Or refined carbs, like soda and candy?

>>38664584
How so?

>>38664862
I heard something about that. About how the unhealthy saturated fats clog the follicles or something. I read it a long ass time ago; it wasn't bashing keto (didn't even mention it) but I'm not sure how scientifically sound it was. Probably click bait.

>>38665824
>as in?
I'm guessing something pic related.

>kys retard
There's this thing called physics. Energy can neither be created nor destroyed. It has to come from somewhere, and it has to go somewhere. That jiggly stuff is called adipose tissue. Its primary purpose is storage of energy. What is a calorie? A unit of measure for energy. If you consume too many calories, it has to go somewhere (adipose tissue). If you consume too few calories, the energy to operate the body has to come from SOMEWHERE (hopefully adipose tissue, and muscle or something). What were you saying?

>>38667450
>and muscle or something
*and NOT muscle...

>>38663749
If you're a fat fugger, low-medium intensity cardio will work fine. The flab on your body provides enough resistance to burn those calories.

DO NOT DO HEAVY CARDIO ON EC STACK OR YOUR HEART WILL GO ON STRIKE

>>38667450
Anybody know if there's a significant difference between processed and unprocessed bacon? I don't eat bacon often, but when I do buy it I get unprocessed (the ad men beat me and I think it tastes better even though there's probably no difference).

>>38667853

There's no such thing as unprocessed bacon

Keto dieters are literally a cult. Fuck them and let them believe that a prolonged ketosis is good for you. It's natural selection at work.

>>38667914

Nice empty bashing, the effects of calorie restriction is widely accepted and the damaging effects of starches, grains and carbs in general is coming to light. Don't be mad you can't fight the urge to fill your body with inflammatory shit.

I was like you once, then I tried keto and IF and dropped pounds like nothing and feel more energized daily.

>>38667942

>the damaging effects of starches, grains and carbs in general is coming to light

hahahahahaha

>>38667967
Your right we've known about it for a long time, just chose to ignore it since its "tasty"

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>>38667942
>there are people who actually believe this

>>38667942
>the damaging effects of starches, grains and carbs in general is coming to light
>citation needed

>>38667967
The Dietary Intake of Wheat and other Cereal Grains and Their Role in Inflammation
http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC3705319/

Gluten is proven to fuck people up hard, and those that don't have the intolernace, still suffer internally, even if they don't know

>>38668005
>>38668014
>>38667967

I thought it was common knowledge that the human body doesn't tolerate carbs as well as other food. This is like the whole foundation behind paleo, and to an extend keto

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>>38667942
>he claims keto isnt inflammatory
>says carbs are
ahahahahahahahahahah

pic related is your blood on keto, looks ''anti inflammatory'' right mayne

>>38667827
What about muh lifts? Should I dial it back in intensity in my lifts too?

>>38668021
A study that basically proves nothing. Look at the conclusion, so much further research is needed and no causal effects have been observed. Meanwhile, most of the stuff you eat on keto has already been proven to be inflammatory and carcenogic (such as red meat products).

>>38668037
You are brainwashed by the keto people. It's been proven time and time again that a high carb diet is optimal for health and energy purposes. Paleo and keto is retarded. If you can't see this for yourself there's no saving you. Do your own research before believing retarded ketosis claims.

>>38668038
>Pic related is your blood on keto
>Posts obese person blood and plasma

>>38668045
Reduced Pain and Inflammation in Juvenile and Adult Rats Fed a Ketogenic Diet
http://journals.plos.org/plosone/article?id=10.1371/journal.pone.0008349

>>38668058
Please fucking educate me then, on why a high carb diet is more sustainable and "healthy", than a diet rooted more in evolutionary biology and not just agriculture convenience.

>>38668021

Most of this is about feeding isolated wheat proteins to people with celiac disease and wheat allergies. When it comes to normal feeding of whole grains, they say this:

>Wolever et al. [71] showed that a diet with a low glycemic index (containing whole grains) compared to high (containing refined grain products), resulted in sustained reductions in postprandial glucose and CRP levels on the long-term in patients with type 2 diabetes treated with diet alone.
>It should be noted that whole grains contain phytochemicals, like polyphenols, that can exert anti-inflammatory effects which could possibly offset any potentially pro-inflammatory effects of gluten and lectins

>>38668060
an obese person eats a lot of fat and ketotards eat a lot of fat too

not my fault you cant think properly because your brain is carb deprived

>>38668058
And you're brainwashed by the high carb people. It's been proven time and time again that a keto diet is effective for fat loss with little to no effect on health. Maybe a bit of a manganese deficiency that can be easily made up for with a slight diet adjustment. Do research before you insult a viable diet plan.

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>>38668093
An obese person just eats a lot in general. Going over their tdee by ridiculous amount over an extended period of time. Making them obese

The fat-fueled brain: unnatural or advantageous
http://blogs.scientificamerican.com/mind-guest-blog/the-fat-fueled-brain-unnatural-or-advantageous/

For those that don't want to wad through a journal article


>>38668093
>>38668115
So as long as your are able to burn the fat in your blood you shouldn't end up like this right?>>38668038

>>38668115
yeah im sure by just going over your tdee makes your blood lipids increase lmao

>>38668079
On why keto causes heart disease: http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/16270280
On why keto is a pro-inflammatory diet:
http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/19828712
Health benefits of whole grains:
http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC3078018/

A comparison of low fat and low carb diets, showing that low carb diets reduce cholesterol levels by a larger amount.
http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC3530364/

>>38668101
any diet is effective for fat loss as long as you cut calories. the difference is in the effects on your long term health. keep stuffing your face with fatty cholesterol increasing foods and enjoy your atherosclerosis and tumours. you're turning your body into an acidic hell hole

>>38668149
>Burn fat
>Die of heart disease

>Burn Carbs
>Die of diabetes or inflammation induced disease


So how do we win brahs? Pretty sure I need to eat, but it sounds like all food will kill me?

>>38668133
>So as long as your are able to burn the fat in your blood you shouldn't end up like this right?
mate if you're eating mainly fat for fuel your blood will look like that period, maybe not as extreme unless you eat a lot

eating fat increases blood lipids, thats just a straight up fact. But that amount is straight up unhealthy, maybe a 1/4th of that is normal

The oldest living human Emma Morano 116 is eating raw eggs and raw minced meat every fucking day.

>>38668101

>It's been proven time and time again that a keto diet is effective for fat loss with little to no effect on health

The quality of the research matters though

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=l1-HQel1AGM

If you take obese people, have them lose weight by restricting their food choices (low-carb), compare them to another bad diet that causes less weight loss, and then say the low-carb diet was more successful while its participants are still in terrible health, it doesn't have much real-world significance.

>>38668198
>>Burn Carbs
>>Die of diabetes or inflammation induced disease
except for a fact that neither of these are true

high carb is actually anti inflammatory. Dont ignore the fact that it has been proven that a diet with ~90% carbs literally cures diabetes

Fat actually increases insulin insensitivity

>>38668149
So would the key to a successful keto diet, then be just not a consuming saturated fat and just using no other types, or am I fucked either way?

>>38668212

The oldest living person ever also smoked cigarettes for most of her life. One person that got lucky isn't worth more as a data point than the millions of others who died prematurely doing the same thing.

>>38668235
the key is to do not keto

>>38668226
But how do I eat carbs without retaining water? Everytime I break my keto, my whole fucking face swells up and I seem to put on 5 pounds of water

>>38661619
If you honestly take a minute to think about it, think of all the fucking food you're eating and ask yourself is it actually possible for me to lose weight eating so much bad food when it's pretty much been a proven fact that cutting calories is the only way to lose fat.

>>38668212
better eat raw meat and eggs than lmao you retard enjoy your salmonella and parasites

>>38668247
reduce salt intake

mate eating purely carbs just increases water in your muscles, that aside I bet you eat a lot of salty grains

>>38668217
Finally someone who understands.

>>38668235
Well how do you want to do keto without eating saturated fats? Every meat product has saturated fats in it as far as I'm concerned.

I can't really give any advice on keto. I tried it for a week and felt really lethargic. Ever since I switched to a plant based diet (90% vegan) I feel more energetic, make more gains in the gym and are less affected by my seasonal allergies and dry eyes.

My only advice would be is to trust your own body and your own research, and try out different things.

>>38668137
Take a look at an obese person who eats a lot of rich fatty foods and fruits and shit.
What's that? Can't find one and the amount of fat and meat and fruits they would eat will put them in a food coma so they can't eat anymroe?

Want to see what the fattest man in the world before pre processed food and pseudo corn based foods and enriched flour looked like?
Want to see an average obese person you can find in any walmart.

>>38667993

>steamed brown rice and boiled oats are so tasty that the world's scientists got together and decided that nobody should know they're unhealthy
>meanwhile the keto diet is made of salty, fatty fried meats, cheeses, and butter

Yeah, that makes sense

>>38668278
>Take a look at an obese person who eats a lot of rich fatty foods and fruits and shit.
>and fruit
> a lot
doesnt exist therefor your post is basicly empty

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>>38661619
>raw mince

>>38668079

>Please fucking educate me then, on why a high carb diet is more sustainable and "healthy", than a diet rooted more in evolutionary biology

Where did you get the idea that a ketogenic diet was rooted in evolutionary biology?

>>38668149
It reduces cholesterol because there is no cholesterol being made due to lack of fat in the body.
However, the problems that are caused by the modern diet has nothing to do with a healthy diet.
Cholesterol on the inside of the veins is how the body heals wounded arterial walls.
And supposedly cane sugar and most foods rubs holes in the veins/arterial walls.

A high fat high sugar unhealthy diet = wounded arteries and the body overproducing cholesterol to heal those injuries = heart problems.

If you can find a person who ate modern convenience foods that had NO fat in them what so ever and ate very little in the way of fat but had no problems with artery blockage then that conjecture would be valid.

>>38662057
>can only bench 145 x3)
I TOLD YOU CARDIO KILLS GAINS BRO
I TOLD YOU

>>38668226
>Dont ignore the fact that it has been proven that a diet with ~90% carbs literally cures diabetes

Links?
And contents of said diet.
I'm curious, because I've heard the exact opposite.

>>38668334
Mostly thoughts about early man not having the readily accessible food, and having a system develop to counter than.

As well as having millions of years of existence, without agricultural carbs.

After reading this thread I'm ready to throw away my keto, but by the sounds of it vegetarianism or even vegan, is the only way to not die of heart disease of other shit.

>>38668365
There is no society that is pure vegan at all.
And the longest lived people on the earth always ate everything but in moderation and had strict diets that worked best for their bodies.

Also vegans have their own problems, look up the numerous psychological and neuro chemical problems of vegans.
And forcing a child to be vegan is considered child abuse an many first world countries.

Keto is fine if you're very addicted to sugar and very fat and just need to lose weight

If you actually lift seriously and do cardio keto is retarded

Just stop eating free sugars and you're good T B H F A M

>>38668349
Well those people can be found. The president of the American College of Cardiology is a vegan, and states that dietary cholesterol through saturated fats / animal proteins and fats is by far the biggest contributor to atherosclerosis. You can find that in cross sectional studies, vegan groups have by far a lower level of cholesterol in their blood...
>>38668365
Well most people who die of heart disease die in their 70s or 80s anyway. I mean, I eat a mostly vegan diet because I believe it's healthier, but on average most people live to an old age with an omnivore diet. The difference isn't always in decades of longevity.

>>38668408
>numerous psychological and neuro chemical problems of vegans [citation needed]

you're pulling facts out of your ass. I'm not even a vegan and I know that a well planned vegan diet is more than fine for health reasons and usually superior to a typical american diet.

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>>38668365

>Mostly thoughts about early man not having the readily accessible food, and having a system develop to counter than.

Humans originated in tropical areas where fruit was abundant. Even when hunting became more common, fruits and starchy foods like tubers could make up a large portion of their calories.

http://www.direct-ms.org/pdf/EvolutionPaleolithic/Eaton%20Paleo%20Nutri%20Review%20EJCN.pdf

>The typical carbohydrate intake of ancestral humans was similar in magnitude, 45±50% of daily energy, to that in current affluent nations, but there was a marked qualitative difference. Under most circumstances during the late Paleolithic, the great majority of carbohydrate was derived from vegetables and fruit

Ketosis isn't good for reproduction, making infant mortality more likely and stunting brain and physical development. Even inuit have evolved to avoid ketosis.

>>38668413
I'm skinny fat trying to get super trim, why is cardio on keto dumb? Since im trying to get really thin cardio is all I do.

>>38668079
>>38668334

He probably thinks that it is because humans have been eating since forever while we started eating grains since the agricultural revolution only. Which is true.

The thing is, "grains" are literally fruits. Swollen ovaries of plants. They don't really differ that much from other fruits. Humans are primates, and primates eat fruit. That's our main source of energy.

On the other hand, the animals we hunted back then were much healthier and also leaner than the ones we eat now. Besides, humans didn't constantly eat meat. It did make a up significant portion of our overall calories, but most of the stuff we ate were plants. Fruits, tubers, nuts, etc.

>>38668458
I've read some mixed things on fruit, the one the sticks out being that the fiber in fruit counteracts the fructose, which makes the sugar not as harmless as other sources. Although don't most nutritionists demonize starches? Why is that?

>>38668363
https://www.drmcdougall.com/2013/12/31/walter-kempner-md-founder-of-the-rice-diet/

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>>38662090
Yea that happens to me too. Worth it for now.

>>38668514
you're retarded if you think the fructose in fruit is unhealthy

all those studies done on fructose were done on obese people who drink high fructose cornsyrup

>>38668552
sorry meant to say that it was more harmless. Does this mean that juicer fags are essentially drinking the same things as soda fags, with some added vitamins?

>>38668514

You don't need a degree to become a nutritionist. Anyone with some knowledge about nutrition can claim to be a nutritionist. So, without a doubt there are tons of nutritionists who have no idea what the fuck they are talking about.

No credible dietitian will ever tell you to avoid carbs, unless you have a specific medical condition that requires you to do so.

>>38668460

sorry cardio on keto is fine idk why I wrote that

>>38668573
one is only sugar the other is magical nature shit = same

>>38668514

>Although don't most nutritionists demonize starches?

No prominent one I've ever heard does. Dietitians warn people to stay away from refined starches, like white flour, since it's naturally void and rapidly absorbed, making it bad for blood sugar/insulin/triglycerides. Things like whole grains (oats, brown rice, whole wheat, corn, barley), beans, and even potatoes (especially sweet potatoes) are routinely recommended, even by organizations that specialize in diabetes

http://www.diabetes.org/food-and-fitness/food/what-can-i-eat/making-healthy-food-choices/diabetes-superfoods.html?referrer=https://www.google.com/

The people is most people, especially in America, don't eat these foods. Most carbohydrate Americans eat come from refined sugars and refined starches like sodas and snack foods. Very few americans eat even the minimum recommended amount of healthy carb sources.

http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/26801989

>Although most children and adults meet daily intake goals for grain foods overall, whole grain as a portion of total grain intake continues to be consumed at levels well below recommendations. The data from the current study suggest that greater whole grain consumption is associated with better intakes of nutrients and healthier body weight in children and adults.

Because of that, we have a lot of misconceptions about grains and carbohydrates in general.

>>38668659

*nutritionally void

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Keto is working for me. Went from a turbo-fatass 300 lbs to 235 in a few months and felt amazing the whole time. Feeling better every day. Got 35 lbs to go.

What I didn't expect though is how much it has improved my mental health. Could be placebo effect or just the result of accomplishing weight loss goals, but my depression and anxiety are almost non-existent now. I used to be very negative and now I'm loving life again.

I am of the belief that long term keto is not good for the heart, so I'm using it to get down to a healthier weight at which exercise is actually fun and enjoyable instead of torture, then I will make a slow transition back to a balanced diet with more exercise.

I'm disgusted when I see pictures of the old me and when i think about the lifestyle I used to have. Never again.

Pic is one of my favorite keto recipes, chorizo and cheese stuffed bell peppers

>>38668644
Sugar: The Bitter Truth
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dBnniua6-oM
Here is the study I'm basing this off of.

>>38668659
What would you recommend what I best consume, to get whole grains without gluten or similar elements of grains that cause gastric inflammation, or is gastric inflammation an unavoidable byproduct of consuming grains in general?

>>38661619
I'm a bicycle road racer, and it's the off-season for me now and I started a cut this week to get below my target weight before I start strength training for the fall/winter. Just LIMITING carbs is tough when you go out to ride your bike for a few hours. If I ate NO carbs I wouldn't be able to ride AT ALL. Keto isn't for everyone.

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>>38668739

>What would you recommend what I best consume, to get whole grains without gluten

First I would say that you should really test whether you have celiac disease or gluten allergies or whatever before deciding to avoid all gluten. Even if you wanted to do away with wheat, I think barley and rye are so healthy that you'd do yourself a disservice to avoid those too just because they have gluten in them.

Otherwise, steel-cut oats are great and are notably anti-inflammatory due in part to compounds called avenanthramides, which are one reason why you see oatmeal used in soaps and lotions sometimes, or as a treatment for rashes.

http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/19941618

Psuedo-cereals like buckwheat, amaranth, and quinoa are also very good. Technically not grains, but are nutritionally similar with more protein.

Brown rice and corn are also good as part of a recipe but aren't as nutritious as other grains so not as good to make a staple out of. Rice also comes in other colors like red, black, and purple, which have more anti-inflammatory properties.

>>38668573
>Does this mean that juicer fags are essentially drinking the same things as soda fags
nope

while it is the same energy wise, health and nutritionwise its a whole other thing

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Posting the single best keto food there is

>>38668573

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3m5FFFw_otA

>>38668526
So yeah, a clean fucking diet of almost fucking anything with reduced calories will reverse the problems caused by the modern diet.

HOLY SHIT BATMAN!!!

>>38669159
>hurr carbs give you beetus, better dont eat dem bro
>link source that it doesnt
>hurr it was his limited foodintake
yeah bro it wasnt all the fats and proteins that did it but the carbs even though mostly carb diet cures it

>>38668433
A well planned diet of fucking anything is healthy you disengenuous faggots.

Simply handwaiving the problems of a pure vegan diet with "BETTER PLANNING" does not lessen the inherit problems of such an unnatural diet.

>>38668423
>Well those people can be found. The president of the American College of Cardiology is a vegan, and states that dietary cholesterol through saturated fats / animal proteins and fats is by far the biggest contributor to atherosclerosis. You can find that in cross sectional studies, vegan groups have by far a lower level of cholesterol in their blood...
Really, you're saying that out there right now are people who eat almost fat free modern food and have NO problem with cholesterol are their hearts. Is that what you're saying?

>>38669183
A mostly high fat and protein diet with limited carbs and limited calories has always been given to people with diabetes. Only recently has that been changed.

And I can't think of a single person who actually says to do a high carbohydrate plant based diet AND not to restrict calories.

High carbs in modern foods DO give you fucking diabetes and eating high carbs but replacing it with different carbs in a clean diet with exercise and eating substantially less will cure it.

Doesn't mean the fucking carbs themselves helped cure it you fucktard, it's the quality and quantity of food that did.

The hell is wrong with you?

>>38669282
>rice and table sugar is quality food
ahahah

>>38669345
By quality I mean natural food.
And yeah table sugar vs corn syrup? No question table sugar is superior.
Yes this is a lesser of two evils thing.

>>38669362

>grasping at straws

Why is nutrition such a mangled science, or is it just the the appearance of scientific dissent much like climate change? With private interest groups paying for studies, that show the benefits of junk food or why corn is great.

Are we ever going to reach a consensus on anything nutritionally speaking, and get the right combo for natty gains? Cause it seems like very little is for certain and as simple as, what is healthy

>>38669378
> or is it just the the appearance of scientific dissent much like climate change?

Exactly. There's a pretty firm consensus around the world among health professionals about what a healthy diet is. Every expert organization gives basically the same advice.

The dissent comes from individual internet bloggers and diet book authors who use logical fallacies and cherry-picking to get people to distrust authorities and follow bad diet advice, usually appealing to peoples' taste preferences (don't worry, you don't have to eat wheat bran and carrots, you can eat all the butter and steak you want!)

The fundementals of healthy eating are pretty much set in stone. As more data comes out, you see some ideas get tweaked and re-composed, but when you see claims that the whole scientific community is 100% wrong about everything and you can learn the truth if you just pick up a copy of someone's book, you should know you're being bullshitted.

>>38669378
its mangled science because there are basicly too many variables

let me list some
>genetic predisposition
>activity level
>age
>food eaten
>hormone levels
etc


within these variables there are more variables; for food that would be:
>macro ratio
>nutrient ratio
>nutrient amount
>other chemicals within the food; BPA, added hormones(to the animal), antibiotica
etc I could go on forever

Keto is the biggest bullshit ever known to mankind since nofap

>>38669509
I mean yeah, its not that great on your blood lipid levels, but if you want to lose straight up weight in a timely manner, its your best bet short term. It's all about trade offs my man.

>>38669561
mate its not even that good for weightloss the most weightloss is water that comes from glycogen loss

>>38669789
Well yeah, but once your out of glycogen, say from a day fast, aren't you then running off of fat and therefor burning it?

>>38669815
>running out of glycogen is a good thing
keto isnt superior to any other weightloss diet m8, thats my point

I would rather calorie restrict combined with training more rather than eat like a pig

>>38669377
Where?
No enlighten me.

Natural foods are better then modern convenience foods and simply switching your diet to that instead of the pre-processes stuff will fix most problems. I have no changed from that at all.

The lie that people try to put forth that their particular retarded diet will somehow fix everything NEVER EVER brings up this fact.
Mainly because they want to pretend that they've found some new deep knowledge instead of being just another diet shiller.

Low calorie
Healthy natural nutrient rich plants and veg and well raised healthy animals food sources.
Hand cooked meals.
That means no white
Daily activity.

Doesn't matter WHAT proportion you put that in unless you go fucking crazy with the fat or carbs or only eat meat or veg.

That shit is not healthy unless you spend a fuckton of time eating around the inherent weaknesses in those types of diets and can put up with or have genetic immunity to the problems inherent with that way of eating.

The point is, if you've found a certain kind of diet filled with healthy foods, decent caloric natural to you intake and stay relatively active and stress free YOU WILL LIVE FUCKING WELL AND LONG.
If you add exercise, not training to be an amature athlete that's fairly unhealthy, on top of that you're golden.

There.

>>38669927

>table sugar is a natural food

>>38669892
Well if you're doing a protein sparring modified fast, aren't you essentially on keto, as far as bodily mechanisms are concerned? Since your burning calories from fat and not glycogen?

>>38669509
Keto works actually, and from what I've seen no one can actually say why we need such a large amount of carbohydrates in our diet.

Other then eating fat makes you fat or having too much cholesterol makes your arteries clog up for no reason, and I've not seen anything that actually states why, I can't figure it out.

>>38669993
since sugar is the preferred and superior fuel your body will turn protein(also muscle proteins) into sugar so it can fuel certain needs when eating low carb

because of this reason you will have some, yet minimal glycogen stores

>>38669975
I'm sorry, where did I say that?
Weren't you the one stating that a 99% sugar diet is somehow superior and cured diabetes or some such retardation?

>>38670022
Wait so the protein in a PSMF is to spare you from muscular breakdown, so you don't have to convert sugar to meet the brains minimum glycogen need? wouldn't make more sense to just consume a small baseline of sugar to prevent the breakdown?

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>>38669282
>A mostly high fat and protein diet with limited carbs and limited calories has always been given to people with diabetes. Only recently has that been changed.
Even back in the late 20s and early 30s it was known that high fat diets were horrible for diabetes, worsening insulin resistance and glycemic control

http://archinte.jamanetwork.com/article.aspx?articleid=535594
https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC382094/pdf/canmedaj00097-0013.pdf
http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC2444943/pdf/brmedj07161-0009.pdf
http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC1561276/pdf/canmedaj00503-0060.pdf

Doctors who were actually successful at treating their diabetic patients prescribed heavy consumption of fruits and vegetables, often in such massive quantities that they would develop carotenemia.

>>38669927
>That means no or severly limited white flour or excess sugars and sweats and fatty foods.
>Too much energy of any kind is bad for you if you do not do enough that requires it.

Sorry I had moved some things around and left that portion out.

>>38670018
1. carbs are the brain' preferred source of energy, hence why we like sweet things
2. the brain runs mainly on sugar(carbs are essentially sugar)
3. the brain responds similiarily to sugar as cocaine(because we need it)
4. the body literally stores sugar in the form of glycogen in our muscles and liver for later activity
5. sugar provides fast energy and can even get turned to more efficient energy(aerobicly)
6. some cells in our body only can use sugar as energy
7. the body has a mechanism to turn non sugar things into sugar(because we need it)
8. sugar improves mood
9. high carb diet increases test
10. high carb diet kills cravings for junk

I could go on forever

>>38670018
yup, works well so ignore the fucking noob night cocks on here. Using keto with roughly 2,500 kcals a day to cut fat when training and don't have a problem

ignore the basement dwelling, fat fucks who don't do shit besides train for women and eat shit and wonder why they make no progress

>>38670082
But itsnt fasting itself good for lowering insulin resistance? Can't find the source but I believe I've read about diabetics curing these disease from various forms of extending fasting? and its the mechanism you experience during fasting ketosis?

>>38669815
Less than you would on a diet with carbs. Instead you burn more lean body mass.

http://ajcn.nutrition.org/content/104/2/324

It's rather simple biochemistry

https://books.google.com/books?id=hrdRROeCI9IC&lpg=PA263&pg=PA259#v=onepage&q&f=false

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>>38670018

>from what I've seen no one can actually say why we need such a large amount of carbohydrates in our diet.

One reason is because whole food sources of carbs come with little risk. Fatty foods can raise cholesterol, but fiber lowers cholesterol, making fiber-rich carbs heart healthy. Another reason is that if you look at the overall effect of foods, the healthiest foods are consistently foods of plant origin, and plants and carbohydrates go hand in hand. If you eat a diet rich in fruits, whole grains, beans, lentils, peas, and starchy vegetables, you're going to be eating a diet high in carbohydrate whether you meant to or not. It's just what happens naturally with a healthy diet.

>having too much cholesterol makes your arteries clog up for no reason

"For no reason"

Your body expects to have a certain level of cholesterol in your blood that it can manage, like with every other constituent of the blood. If your blood is constantly saturated with an overdose of LDL particles, it causes damage and inflammation of the endothelium, getting trapped in the walls of the arteries, over time leading to the formation of plaque, which can then rupture and cause a heart attack or stroke.

>>38670126
7. the body has a mechanism to turn non sugar things into sugar(because we need it)

It's the purpose of ketosis to to break down body lipids into ketones to feed the brain once glycogen stores are depleted, and aren't their studies that should the brain runs better on ketones than glycogen?

So does it come down to keto being bad for the body below the neck, but better for the brain?

>>38670076
mate fasting in general wont prevent musclebreakdown not sure where you are getting that from

you'll mostly use liver glycogen and when that runs out you'll catabolize muscle and some fat

in order to spare muscle you'll want more protein synthesis than protein breakdown and in order to do that you would need to hit the weights hard and eat carbs because insulin promotes protein synthesis and lets you hit the weights hard

>>38661619
You will clog your arteries with all the cholesterol. If you do this diet on the long-term you will die in a few years from a stroke or heart attack.... please stop it if for your health, there are more sustainable ways to lose fat

>>38670018
https://www.nap.edu/read/10490/chapter/8

>>38670201
even when in ketosis you will turn protein and muscle(which is also protein) into sugar to fuel certain needs that ketones absolutely cant

sugar is the primary source of fuel and with good reason

>>38670142
Fasting induces the same degree of insulin resistance as a high fat diet.

http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/16627573

You're probably talking about something done on fat / obese people. Anything that leads to weight loss will improve biomarkers for them. They don't return to non-diabetic standards of health without carbs, so it's wrong to say anything was cured.

>keto gives me so much energy

I cringe at that, considering 90% of keto ppl down cups of coffee everyday.

without the carbs and without the coffee, they are zombies.

keto is good for fat reddit ppl and that's all.

>>38670189
But lowered cholesterol isn't the problem. The problem has always been the body overreacting to the damage done by excess sugars.

Cholesterol is needed to heal wounded arteries. Fixing the things that caused the. Arterie problems in the first place should be more important.
It seems hat it's pushed because it's simpler not because it's healthier

>>38670126
Too many carbs is horrible for you if you aren't active

>>38670082
So they all went from a garbage diet to a clean diet with low calls and they lost weight and boom no diabetes2?

You also don't mention how a low calorie kept det does the same thing

> Bacon

> Good for your health

>>38670750

>But lowered cholesterol isn't the problem. The problem has always been the body overreacting to the damage done by excess sugars.

Tell that to the people who study cholesterol professionally.

>Cholesterol is needed to heal wounded arteries. Fixing the things that caused the. Arterie problems in the first place should be more important.

Cholesterol is needed for a number of things. Excess cholesterol is a health hazard. Too much cholesterol can, itself, cause damage to the arteries.

http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC3623938/

You can kill two birds with one stone. Less cholesterol, less inflammation, and less plaque-building particles floating around.

>>38670816
No, are you illiterate? The post you're quoting states very clearly that high fat intake leads to the induction of insulin resistance independent from calories. One can even put diabetics on a low fat diet with some caloric surplus over the ideal weight and see improvements in insulin sensitivity.

http://ajcn.nutrition.org/content/54/5/936.abstract
http://ajcn.nutrition.org/content/32/11/2312.abstract

>low calorie kept det
No idea what that is. Can you explain?

>>38661619
anon, ground beef is not steak

Thank you knowledgeable carb /fit/Zens, I was the first to post BS articles for keto, but now I see how much of an idiot I was. Will be cutting my fats and focusing on the good carbs mentioned.

Those actually explaining the finer points probably saved my life.

>>38670082
>>38671059
Those fucking studies are DECADES OLD

Here's a study from ONE decade ago
http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC1325029/

>>38670961
That doesn't say that people should have NO cholesterol. That's fucking stupid.

And name these scientists that say too much cholesterol is the problem and not plaque build up in the artery walls.

>>38671221

>That doesn't say that people should have NO cholesterol. That's fucking stupid.

Who argued that? You want a safe amount of cholesterol, not so much cholesterol that your heart explodes.

>And name these scientists that say too much cholesterol is the problem and not plaque build up in the artery walls.

..... cholesterol is the problem BECAUSE of plaque build-up. When you have 2-3 times the normal level of LDL particles in your bloodstream and develop a disease characterized by cholesterol-filled plaque narrowing your arteries, you have a cholesterol problem. You can prevent that by having a normal, healthy blood cholesterol level.

>>38670792
nope

>inb4 they make you fat
not true

>>38671221
your body can make its own cholestrol you fucking ketotard no need to eat more

>>38671330
You were fucking arguing that.
A massive chunk of the bullshit about shilling vegan diet is about CHOLESTEROL AM BAD NO MATTER WHUT!!

And cholesterol merely existing does not mean the the fucking walls of your arteries will clog up.
The walls of the arterial walls clog up as a side effect. Of what you might ask? The arterial walls having fucking holes in them!!
Cholesterol is used as a way to patch holes in the arteries.

SImply removing cholesterol will not fix the problem that necessitates cholesterol being used in it's natural capacity within the body that it almost or completely closes up arteries.

Choloesterol just doesn't make big goddamned clumps that float around the body, that shit breaks off of arterial walls and just floats around the fucking body. getting bigger and worse.

People oft have no choice but to go as close to completely cholesterol free after a while because the damage to their circulatory system and the plaque that is a sign of that damage is horrifyingly severe.

That is it. They hope that their bodies will naturally reverse it OR it wont' get any worse.
Get it? If you eat well, naturally, and moderately and eat in a way where you personally feel and function better then there is a very good chance that problems like that will not arrive.

>>38671368
Our bodies can make it's own carbs too. So there is no reason to ever touch anything more then a few dietary carbs.
Your rebuttal.

>>38671221

The studies he linked maintained the participants' weight to study the effect of diet alone. The one you linked had people lose weight, which can take the credit for improvements.

>>38671423
not an argument since our body cant make enough carb to fuel my daily activities

I bet you look like shit

you cant train hard without any carbs m8 just because gluconeogenesis exists doesnt mean we dont need carbs it just means that its a last resort mechanism

>>38671430
Do they make mention of their body composition?

>>38671453
>not an argument since our body cant make enough carb to fuel my daily activities

Yes you faggot it is. Your personal daily activities necessitates a bit more carbs not as many as is being shilled by the vegan or the common 80% carb diets that lead to the obesity and type 2 diabetic explosion.

Your daily activities are not the same as what is needed to live a normal life. Sports and the like are just extra energy burned.
And you, most people here, undertake those extra activities to burn excess calories that they are told they should be ingesting in the first place simply for daily living.
Which is stupid and wrong.

>>38671412

>You were fucking arguing that.

Where's the post where I said having 0 cholesterol in your blood is ideal?

>A massive chunk of the bullshit about shilling vegan diet is about CHOLESTEROL AM BAD NO MATTER WHUT!!

Who is arguing this? You're bringing an argument up that nobody here is making

>And cholesterol merely existing does not mean the the fucking walls of your arteries will clog up.

No, but in dangerously high amounts, the chance of it leading to cardiovascular disease rises.

>SImply removing cholesterol will not fix the problem

Lowering cholesterol to a safe level actually can help a lot

http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/7500065

Having low-cholesterol isn't a practical concern. It's virtually impossible to get your cholesterol too low, even with cholesterol-lowering drugs. Too high cholesterol isn't just possible, but extremely common. It's up to you to eat a healthy diet to prevent this from happening.

>>38666147
>High-fat, high-protein, low-/no-carb diet
>"Giving yourself brain damage"
>The connections between neurons are literally made of fat

>>38671497
>80% carb diets that lead to the obesity and type 2 diabetic explosion.
ahahahahh

show me a person that eats 80% carbs that is obese or has type 2 diabetes

protip: you cant

>>38671517
>this means anything
with the same logic, is your body 60% fat? ok why eat fat then

>>38671221
>Those fucking studies are DECADES OLD
Science doesn't expire after some arbitrary amount of time that appeals to your feelings. There won't be any return to phlogiston, lamarckism, the heliocentric universe, classical physics, or other things.

>http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC1325029/
Pure marketing. This was authored by Atkins foundation salesmen and self-published in a crackpot 'journal' ran by them. Reduction in dosage for medication that manages hyperglycemia is not an accepted method of measuring glycemic control. Nor are improvements in glycated hemoglobin evidence that diabetes is "treated". Insulin sensitivity wasn't even examined.

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>mfw the ketotard ITT is a fat faggot who thinks his diet is legit because he lost some waterweight

>>38670126
>1. carbs are the brain' preferred source of energy, hence why we like sweet things

stopped reading right here.

Carbs are rocket fuel for the brain, mainly simple ones. That is why sugar is so correlated with alzheimer.

The optimal macro for the brain is fat. I know the brain is /fit/'s last concern, but go read Dr. Perlmutter (the neurologist) book about diet

Also, I also used to be cetic about keto, but embraced it a year ago and am never going back

>>38671534
>show me a person that eats 80% carbs that is obese or has type 2 diabetes
The average wandering walmart patron.

Are you retarded?
The average obese MEAT AM MURDER but sugary garbage is okay vegan.

>>38671510
>Where's the post where I said having 0 cholesterol in your blood is ideal?
I meant dietary cholesterol. There is nothing in that article saying that is awesome.

>Who is arguing this? You're bringing an argument up that nobody here is making
Have you read this thread?

>No, but in dangerously high amounts, the chance of it leading to cardiovascular disease rises.
Even moderate amounts of cholesterol in the body even slim amounts will lead to cardiovascular disease if the underlying problem that causes the arterial blockage in the first place persists or worsens. This is not up for debate.

>Lowering cholesterol to a safe level actually can help a lot
>http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/7500065
>Having low-cholesterol isn't a practical concern. It's virtually impossible to get your cholesterol too low, even with cholesterol-lowering drugs. Too high cholesterol isn't just possible, but extremely common. It's up to you to eat a healthy diet to prevent this from happening.

It will help only people who've fucked their bodies up with a lifetime of abuse and people who will have a major over reaction to arterial wounds.
To average relatively healthy people? External cholesterol from healthy sources in a diet that is filled with natural healthy foods adn balanced for them and works best for their bodies is the best course of action.

Pure Veganism and Pure meat eatery have massive inherent problems and only work after a lot of supplementation.

>>38671635
A protein modified sparring fast is actually legit and has been studied extensively for long decades.

>>38671648
So keto literally comes down to either:

>use ketones to prevent brain damage, but your cardiovascular system is fucked by the excess fat

>use clean carbs to prevent heart disease, but get dementia

So in the end you can't win, but which is better for me?

>>38671714
>protein sparing modified fast
PSMF

>>38671733
>your cardiovascular system is fucked by the excess fat

wut?

>>38671648
>its le carbs are rocket fuel guy again
yeah no carbs can be used in anyway since it can be converted into acetylcoa you dont know shit dummy

>>38671714
>protein modified sparring fast

It's this just for dangerously obese people, where the danger of then being so fat, overshadowing all the extra blood lipids?

>>38671778
>>38668149

You can't honestly believe consuming all the saturated fat is good for your blood lipids?

>>38671699
>just anecdotal evidence
oh yeah bro carbs are bad I saw an obese person eat bread one time

>>38671814
>HEY BRO GIVE ME SOME ANECDOTAL EVIDENCE
Look at the avearge obese persons diet
>HEY BRO NICE ANECDOTAL EVIDENCE LOLOLOL
Okay look at the food diary/food consumption of someone like the morbidly obese cautionary tale from my 600 pound life.

>>38671803
Anyone can do it. Most people who want to drop to low bf% without dangerous drugs do it as well.
And the health benefits were studied for people who weren't quite so morbid. I thought I had book marked a study about PSMF and glucogenesis but I'll be goddamned if I can't find it.

>>38671648
>That is why sugar is so correlated with alzheimer.
Whole food sources of sugar - such as blueberries - have strong neuroprotective effects, reduce risk of Alzheimer's disease and enhance cognition.

>The optimal macro for the brain is fat.
Think you mean optimal for impairing brain function and promoting inflammation.

http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/21106937
http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/21270386
http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/20004026
http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/14633847

>but go read Dr. Perlmutter (the neurologist) book about diet
Pseudoscience.

http://www.aaccnet.org/publications/plexus/cfw/pastissues/2012/opendocuments/cfw-57-4-0177.pdf

>>38671699
>Even moderate amounts of cholesterol in the body even slim amounts will lead to cardiovascular disease if the underlying problem that causes the arterial blockage in the first place persists or worsens. This is not up for debate.
But the underlying problem is atherogenic levels of atherogenic lipoproteins, which mostly wind up inside the intima via endothelial transcytosis. You cannot induce true atherosclerotic lesions in normocholesterolemic animals simply by damaging arteries, not to say it isn't harmful. This has been tried for over a century.

>>38672285
Sources.
I'm curious.

>>38671973
>Whole food sources of sugar - such as blueberries - have strong neuroprotective effects, reduce risk of Alzheimer's disease and enhance cognition.
What are antioxidants

>>38673250
https://www.amazon.com/Cholesterol-Wars-Skeptics-Preponderance-Evidence/dp/0123739799

has a great discussion on this

>>38675171
I want a scientific article backing what you said, not a history on why lower cholesterol being pushed is now the norm.

>>38673657
What about them? They contribute along with other components of the food matrix. The point is that not all carbohydrate are the same. There is plenty of evidence to eat these foods and none for abstaining from them.

My depression and anxiety goes away when I'm on keto but right now I'm bulking so I need carbs.

>>38675280
It's kinda impossible to pack an entire field into one single paper. Imagine asking this for evolution or quantum field theory. That book cites hundreds. You need to take a class on cardiovascular biology, but you could start here

http://circ.ahajournals.org/content/116/16/1832.long
http://journals.lww.com/co-lipidology/Fulltext/2016/10000/The_central_role_of_arterial_retention_of.6.aspx

>>38661619
Did it when I was 16 to try and shred, just wasn't my thing. Didn't notice anything good about it, or remotely stellar. Memory went to shit, my mom did it for 3 years and told me she regrets it because she can't remember pretty much anything from that time. New research suggests that it's really not that good for you, but there's new research everyday.

DNP + Stims was incredibly effective, but I don't think I'll ever touch DNP again. Wasn't bad, I was just blacked out on Benzo's during it. Lost around 2lbs of fat a day. Kept off for over a year, and have continued to loss weight without it.

>>38675408
lose"

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>>38671699

>the average wandering walmart patron

You have a massively skewed idea of what fat people eat. The average fat person eats a lot of fat. To give you an idea, most common high-calorie snack foods are at least 50% fat by calorie, if not more.

One example is potato chips. They take potatoes, naturally one of the lowest-fat foods you can find, and add so much oil to it that it has more calories coming from fat than carbohydrate.

>>38668709

fuckin eh that looks good

>>38675384
Could you expand on this?

>>38675393
So yeah.
It's litteraly about reducing or completely eliminating cholesterol and hoping that the body will not continue to excessively repair their damaged arteries leading to clogs and worse broken off plaque.

Getting healthy after the damage is done is a way to minimize further bad shit from happening and a desperate hope that we can clear some of the blockages safely and repair the damage.

Lower cholesterol is litterally the last best chance of people who've completely fucked themselves with a lot of bad life decisions.

For healthier people, including young children, cholesterol is needed for growth and health.

I don't believe in it. Just eat less and exercise more.

These diets tend to work, but you can't keep it off. It's easier in the long run to just manage your portions. More fun too, 8700kJ goes a long way when you're responsible about it.

>>38673250

http://circres.ahajournals.org/content/27/1/59.full.pdf+html

In this study, rhesus monkeys developed atherosclerosis when fed a high-fat, high-cholesterol diet that increased their blood levels of cholesterol massively. When they were put on a low-fat, cholesterol-free diet mostly composed of sugar (not even fruit, just refined sugar) their cholesterol dropped back to normal and their plaques regressed.

>>38661619
>>38661626
How r ur lifts bros

Aren't carbs for energy? Are y'all the type who gym for 30min and walk on the treadmill on incline for 5min

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>>38675498
Atherogenic lipoproteins bind to subendothelial proteoglycan through electrostatic interactions, effectively "sticking" them to the arterial wall. For apoB-containing particles, the specific amino acid residues responsible for this interaction have been identified

http://www.nature.com/nature/journal/v417/n6890/full/nature00804.html

"Repair" happens when immune cells recognize this process as foreign and attempt to clear them out (pic)

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>>38675498
>>38675592
Also, I think you're overestimating what normocholesterolemic is.

>>38675592
Okay, so from what I can gather and what I can piece together from quick googling what I remember from learning latin and context, they've sort of figured out the mechanism for why some part of if happens, but they still don't exactly know why it happens.

All we do know is that death from heart attacks are the top killer in the west.

That, can be directly laid at the feet of the modern western diet. Not any other factors.

What i'm seeing is that they are hoping to halt the process of healing the wounds and hoping that the body will start the repair process much sooner.

Is that correct?

>>38675716
Bump

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>>38661619
I've eaten nothing but bacon and water with supplements for micros the past 5 days.

I've been on keto for the past 4 months

If i get really hungry i just have a little slice of butter to tide me over to the next meal

This is the progress i've made so far

Left pic. 2015.
Right pic a couple days ago

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>>38675716
Various factors have been identified accounting for the majority of disease burden. Eg

http://eurheartj.oxfordjournals.org/content/26/21/2224

Most of them modifiable and lifestyle related. Most relevant and underlying being atherogenic levels of atherogenic lipoproteins, that the western diet of course elevates. No atherogenic levels of lipoproteins = no heart disease. Take for example LDL, lifetime low levels of which provide massive protection against CHD

http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/16554528

After holding all the other factors constant, risk increases in a logarithmically when LDL-C rises above 40 mg/dL

http://atvb.ahajournals.org/content/24/8/e149.long

Therapies nowadays are focused on reduction of atherogenic lipoproteins to allow 'healing', assuming the lesion isn't completely unsalvageable (as in the case of some forms of calcified atheroma). Like lifestyle modification and drugs. Prevention strategies aim to keep levels normocholesterolemic to prevent any lesion formation in the first place.

>>38676007
*logarithmic manner

>>38675489
Not him but

Personally from my experience keto improves my focus and sex drive. I dunno about my mood though. Seems about the same

I get tired easier when on carbs but i also have more potential on carbs.

Keto is like running on A steady burning flame while carbs are more like putting dry leaves on a campfire

>>38665824
that's not a meatball, "köttbulle". they are balls. that is a fucking pannbiff, flat

>>38676007
Okay, so the western diet and lifestyle factors is 100% at fault and simply lowering cholesterol is done in hopes of "HEALING"(why are you putting that in quotations anyway) it.

That's exactly what I've been saying.
What have you been getting at this entire time?

>>38661619

4 weeks into a keto diet, down about 15 or so lbs.
The hardest part is getting the fucking 250g of protein a day I need. Oh well, 3 scoops.

I'm also running and swimming daily. Making good progress from a fat kid. 22p to 205, my goal being 170 or so.

>>38676188
Did that because of how informal and colloquial the term is. To say 100% would be inaccurate, genetics can become of problem too. Familial hypercholesterolemia for instance.

>>38676310
Yes, I actually brought up genetic predisposition in my previous posts.

It is litterally 100% the western diet and lifestyle that is leading to this massive glut of heart attack patients.

Nothing you've posted actually says anything else.

Can I keto on a budget?

>>38676188

"The western diet" and "the ketogenic/low carb diet" share a lot of the same problems, especially when it comes to heart disease.

>>38662312
Chug coconut meat and avocadoes

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>>38675461
>160 calories per 15 chips

>>38676389
No it doesn't actually.
The "western diet" has been shown to be unbelievably horribly bad for you.

Keto has been shown to be relatively healthy if approached sensibly. Just like Vegan diets.

>>38676795
Where has it been shown that eating over the recommended quantity of fat, avoiding whole grains, legumes, fruits and many vegetables is healthy?

>>38676795

>No it doesn't actually.

The western style diet is defined as a diet high in fatty foods, meat, dairy, refined grains and sugar, and low in unprocessed plant foods. Keto obviously gets rid of the processed carbs but at the cost of increasing the other unhealthy aspects. Just removing sugar doesn't fix the problems associated with the diet.

So where do people stand on staking statins? Anyone have an experience ? I'm 24 but I think there's s genetic history of high blood pressur in family, and I don't want to die.

How do I convince my doc to prescribe me these drugs?

>>38677104

>statins for blood pressure

They're lipid-lowering drugs, they lower your LDL cholesterol

>>38676376
Yes. It's actually really easy if you don't mind eating really unhealthy food.

>>38676853
Recent studies that point out why it is unhealthy?
I'm curious.

>>38676982
The current western diet is almost 80% refined carbs and processesed foods and that's being generous. A pure keto diet compared to that would see amazing health gains.
You're being more then a little disengenuous.

>>38677156

>The current western diet is almost 80% refined carbs and processesed foods and that's being generous

You're delusional. See >>38675461

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>>38677156

>The current western diet is almost 80% refined carbs and processesed foods and that's being generous

What do you think a plate of food in America looks like?

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>>38677126
can indirectly help with hypertension though

http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/11897445

>>38675461
You are fucking retarded.
Those fucking chips aren't the vast majority of what people eat 99% of the time. It's A snack food not the snack food that people chow down. And that shit is just fried carbohydrates.
15 grams of carbohydrates and 10 grams of fat.
You haven't even fucking THOUGHT about how much sugar people guzzle down every day.

>>38677205
Enlighten me.

>>38677194
A bag of lays fucking potato chips is not the tipping point for everyone you complete deluded fucking buffoon.

>>38662820
Kekd out loud

>>38677475

>doesn't even have a realistic idea of what the standard american diet is like
>mad as fuck about it anyway

>>38677533
I am an american you idiot.
I'm asking you to show me what this mythical american diet you keep tarding on about is.
Is those lays potato chips that one anon talked about?
Is it something you saw on the food network?
No, go on. Explain.

>>38677543

http://www.aicr.org/new-american-plate/nap-challenge/week-1.html?referrer=https://www.google.com/

Here's an example of a SAD dinner and how to improve it. SAD is represented as a big piece of red meat, some high GI starch with butter added to it, and some veggies. Everything but the peas are bad for you, and there's not enough things that are good for you. The "better" options add more vegetables, use better quality carbs, and cut meat and fat portions down. It's more sensible to improve the diet this way than to just replace one bad thing (buttered potatoes) with more of another bad thing (red meat).

>>38677593
>thinks red meat is bad for you

kill yourself. also eating carbs with meat (or any protein, as far as i know) drastically lowers the GI. read more.

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>>38661619

> make chicken and veges for after lifting
> go lift
> go to gas station
> see donuts and pies on discount because its late
> mfw fighting the urge

>>38661973
That's the exact reason to why it works.

>currently shoveling weet bix and whole milk into my face
>mfw reading this thread
>i have no face

>>38667450
canola oil is literally a poison

>>38661619
Ok guys. I'm looking for a better way of cutting than just "eat less". Tell me about keto. I know the basics, but I wanna hear anecdotes about how to feel while on it, and what kind of results you get. Anybody willing to share their stories?

>>38675975
enjoy your heart disease retard

>>38662090
Same here

>>38661619
>Keto
>2016
Enjoy your fist sized kidney stone you faggot.

>>38678867
No it's not

>tfw keto to cut but most of my fats come from poly/monounsaturated sources instead of bacon wrapped around lard like some people like to brag about

be honest with me lads, will i still die earlier because of this?

>>38679566
yes, less fast than the bacon/lard option t hough

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The fact that OP makes raw burgers is enough to confirm he doesn't know anything about nutrition or health