The case for Heavy lifting In high school, were people pumping

High school kids are literally wasting their fucking time -- only 90% of them know what the fuck they're doing and do it. Of the 10% that knows what the fuck they're doing, only around 50% of them do it correctly.

i genuinely have no idea what you're even arguing. is it that bodybuilding comes across as more convoluted and gimmicky therefore forcing more people to rely on 3rd parties to get them to goals?

it's 100% person dependant. it's like anything. a person who actually wants to learn will go out and learn while a person who isn't really dedicated will just half-ass it with a 15 minute google search spree. that's not a case for anything. if a person is so retarded and lazy they can't even look up appropriate training guides for what they want, what makes you think they will be more motivated to look up training guides for training styles they're even less keen on?

it's got nothing to do with this style or that style; just how many lazy retards flock to a style and refuse to help themselves by learning what to do.

seems like a very broad subject, I did hypertrophy routine for a bit over 1 year and got some decent size but no strength, then for the past few months I've started doing SL and have only seem size in my legs

I have heard the best routine is the one you stick with, that said if you keep lifting you'll get big and strong if you keep progressing and the end result will be the same weather you're doing hypertrophy or strength

>>38449132
Your post made no fucking sense once you tried using percentages

No shit, you're not gonna have a big chest if you only bench 135.

File: 1281926460294.jpg (11KB, 221x319px) Image search: [Google]

11KB, 221x319px

>>38449039
>But you can't convince me that if someone goes up 50lbs on their bench (unless it's all from form) that their chest and tris don't get bigger
What? Check any CBT thread any day and look how a lot of guys are benching 3 plates and have a baby chest.

File: image.jpg (117KB, 600x660px) Image search: [Google]

117KB, 600x660px

15 min / day of tanning will get you darker skin to a point

There are two options

Maintain skin tone at 15 minutes of exposure a day OR increase sun exposure and get darker

You could get darker with 15 minutes if you used spray tan (steroid) OR you could get darker if you just had more sunlight (Heavy weights low reps) OR the latter and spray tan (heavy weight low rep and steroid)

- Analogy from starting strength

Also Zyzz, "ever notice how you never see people doing heavy ass deadlifts in the gym? And they have mediocre physiques? Put two and two together"

>>38449677
They don't eat enough

Big lifts + big diet = big gains

>>38449702

retard

>>38449624
Being so stupid that you cnt mentaly fix 1 typo.
internet must be a confusing place for u buddy good luck out there.

>>38449132

which ironically makes it so easy to find who the genetic elite is.

when everyone does dumbass fucking workouts and someone still ends up looking like a fucking phil heath jr then you know you got a winner.

>>38449608
> I did hypertrophy routine for a bit over 1 year and got some decent size but no strength
Except you had no size, you nothing. A pump is not size. Stop pretending 12 reps is some magic gateway to getting jacked but being super weak.

>>38449132
Of the 90% that know what they're doing 10% know what they're doing and 50% of them know what they're doing.

I don't think percentages work the way you think they work.

File: 1386862997094.png (18KB, 225x225px)

18KB, 225x225px

>>38449702
Nah man you are stupid. If there's any place where people actually do mostly strength routines it's here in /fit/, they lift heavy (and get constantly injured) eat a lot and rest. Yet their physiques are shitty and look awkward. The thing is, a lot of people in here actually believe that gains are only dependant on the numbers of your big lifts, they have the 'i'm so smart knowing this and everyone else is wasting time' mentality ,they can't even see how shitty their body even is. Same with nutrition, a lot of people in here are convinced that the only thing that matters are calories in and out, but look at their bodies..

>>38449039
Man, let me just end this thread with this:

https://www.reddit.com/r/explainlikeimfive/comments/4z1xls/eli5why_does_working_a_muscle_to_exhaustion_with/d6s9itg

For one, there is no esoteric knowledge within bodybuilding to be quite honest with you. All of the routines that work are out and free, and all the pro trainers actually do is manage the gear of the pros, at that point, nutrition and gear matters more than what they're doing.

If you want real bb info, just look for articles from people like Layne Norton, Alan aragon, etc, the Ph.D natty trainers that know what they're doing. They're good at what they do. Don't get memed by a fitness athlete clearly on gear.

If we're talking strength related, the amount of size relative to strength that you gain for purely strength is actually minimal. A lot of people look Dyel and are really strong at many gyms, and the linked comment explains that:
>"Pushing the absolute limits of your muscles' basic work capacity (low reps, high weight), means that after refusion the muscle cell will have more myofibrils, the basic element of a muscle cell that causes contraction. The thing is, myofibrils aren't really big, and your muscle can increase their concentration without changing in size much."

Quite honestly, Do a mix of both lifting heavy and bodybuilder style training, look up good routines to work in both volume some days and power some days, so your volume training can progress, and from there forth, focus on your nutrition primarily depending on your goal. The sticky and bb.com nutrition forum stickies are a great place to start.

That is all, I hope some of you anons get something out of this and don't get memed, I hate typing long responses but I also hate the misinformation being spread here sometimes.

I hope you niggas make it

>>38449039
Oh look its someone who dosnt understand the diffrence bettween muscle and fat.

>probably thinks there such a thing as bulky and lean muscle lal

>>38449724
Spotted the dyel

There is no secret, its all progressive overload.

Getting stronger is the "better" way if you are natural & low dose of gear useage. If you take a fuckload of steroids & HGH/IGF-1 all that matters is that you stimulate the muscles.

File: image.jpg (30KB, 395x387px) Image search: [Google]

30KB, 395x387px

>>38449798
>don't get memed by a fitness athlete clearly on gear
>listen to Layne Norton
I'm getting mixed messages here

>>38449798
Train like a powerlifter on the big 3 (and some accesorys if more advanced) and the rest of the workout like a bb'r.

Atleast this guy gets it.

>>38449773
>Except you had no size
except this is my before and after and had no pump in the after

File: 2016-08-26_002919.png (3MB, 1833x752px)

3MB, 1833x752px

>>38449884

>>38449848
Man pls you cannot be srs...

Layne is one of the people that has helped the fitness community as a whole on multiple fields: Training, nutrition and broscience debunking.

He consistently delivers clients with results and knows how to get it himself, and constantly authors/coauthors papers in nutritional science.

What kind of qualifications do you want? Is formal education not enough for you? Some of you cunts legit go so far to try to fuck up people on this board it's pretty sad.

Take everything with a grain of salt, including layne, but in general his articles are non-extremist and sensible, advocating whole means, not advocating stupid shit like nutrient timing and fancy protocols.

>>38449900
Whole meals** oops.

>>38449899
Wow, you started eating. Truly this is the work of an inefficient bro split and not that you started putting on weight for the first time in your life.

>>38449798
>A lot of people look Dyel and are really strong at many gyms

Bullshit, show me one elite powerlifter/oly lifter that doesn't have X-box huge legs and traps

File: 1269839294501.jpg (10KB, 250x250px)

10KB, 250x250px

>>38449773
Lol at this people who CAN'T BELIEVE there are other ways to gain muscle than squatting and deadlifting everyday.
>UHHM NO NAH YOU DIDN'T GROW STOP LYING ITS IMPOSSIBLE !!!!!!!!!

>>38449918
are you trying to say that it's all down to eating more and none of it was gym?
I must have gifted genetics then I guess, I'm gonna cancel my gym membership tomorrow, thanks buddy

>>38449900
He might be a decent coach but he's also a fitness athlete who's clearly on gear

File: 1471351632886.jpg (156KB, 600x1065px) Image search: [Google]

156KB, 600x1065px

>>38449935
You can get to the gym by taking off your shorts and dragging your ass on the concrete while walking on your hands. You'll get to the gym.

Or you can just jog and save yourself alot of time.

>>38449946
Truly a natty inspiration

>>38449684
Zyzz never said that bullshit

And ive seen many guys at the gym DL 4 plates while looking like they started lifting 2 months ago

When i was at my strongest i was a DYEL skeleton

I did strength bullshit for 3 fuckin years and nobody could tell i went to the gym. Meanwhile I ohp'd 1.5pl8

Then i switched to hylertrophy and doubled in size within a year

My lifts are the same but i actually look like i can lift it now

Stop with your autistic falacy that bodybuilders and big and weak with 'fake muscle'

Bodybuilders are 90% as strong while looking 200% better

>>38449961
Except you can literally see thousands of people who do strength training and don't get impressive or big at all
>but but but everything is about heavy :( it's impossible otherwise !

>>38449939
Yes, that was exactly the point I was making. Keep at those dumbbells friend. I promise you'll get just as jacked as that guy who waves around 35s for 40 random exercises every day. You just gotta eat 7 chicken breast every day and be dedicated bro. Hypertrophy totally works for a natty dawg, just gotta stay committed.

>>38449984
Go to any commercial gym, you'll see more people doing a bodybuilding split than anything. Go to any private gym, tell me those strength training guys are small lmao.

>>38449978
You don't know what you're talking about faggot

http://www.simplyshredded.com/exclusive-zyzz-interview.html

>>38449978
>doubled in size in a year
How those 30 inch guns stupid bitch

>>38449993
But they are either small or fat. If you make them cut they'll look small and ridden with muscle imbalances.

>>38449929
>Bullshit, show me one elite powerlifter/oly lifter that doesn't have X-box huge legs and traps
maxx chewning

>>38449978
>bodybuilders are 90% as strong
>please ignore Jay Cutler struggling to deadlift 400lbs

>>38450019
>But they are either small or fat. If you make them cut they'll look small and ridden with muscle imbalances.

>Guys focused on compounds with a barbell look small and ridden with muscle imbalances
>guys doing dumbbell isolations are big and balanced

hahaha oh god, you're a fucking moron. Post pics of bodybuilders on gear to back up your argument now.

>>38450036
>guys doing dumbbell isolations are big and balanced
Nice strawman

>Post pics of bodybuilders on gear to back up your argument now.
Post roided fat powerlifters to back up your argument now.

>>38450054
There can be no argument that if a top powerlifter gave a fuck and shredded up, he would be fucking jacked. End of discussion new friend

>>38450054
>Guys regularly pulling 500+ poons off the floor won't be shredded if they actually lowered their bodyfat

Welcome to /fit/, please read the sticky.

>>38450072
>>38450117
Prove it then, oh wait there aren't any examples :(
>u must be le new I'm so cool and old and I know I must deadlift and everything else is stupid

>>38449608
>past few months I've started doing SL and have only seem size in my legs
what? have you upper body lifts being going up? I doubt you aren't gaining ANY size

>>38449929
Elite lifters are on roids

Youre not

Why cant you see the issue

>>38450158
You really are stupid.

I never said anything about deadlifting. You aren't even arguing about which lifting style produces the best body. You are literally saying that an elite powerlifter who gets shredded will have a shit body.

It's such a stupid statement, I just can't believe someone could be that dumb.

You really are embarrassing yourself.

File: fVO2s.jpg (67KB, 590x543px) Image search: [Google]

67KB, 590x543px

>>38450158
Here you go faggot. KYS

>>38450269
>>It's such a stupid statement, I just can't believe someone could be that dumb.
Prove me wrong then, cmon with thousands of power lifters around the world and on the internet, found ONE natural that looks impressive doing strength training exclusively and having no muscle imbalances. Cmon :) go ahead do it
You literally have no argument, you are just convinced yourself you are right and nothing more

>>38450030
Maybe Jay doesnt give a fuck about DL cause it does nothing for aesthetics, so he hardly trains it?

Maybe he doesnt wanna risk injuring himself and ruining his career. The only people who are strong at DL are the ones who give a fuck enough to train it. Hes obviously gonna be strong as fuck in some of his favourite exercises

Try Ronnie Coleman instead. Is he weak??? Nope

>>38450292
Looks very natty

File: dan-green1.jpg (45KB, 480x640px) Image search: [Google]

45KB, 480x640px

>>38450294
Look at all that imbalance.

>>38450292
...
Gob smacks of fucking gear plus working out like a bodybuilder for fucking YEARS while he healed an injury acquired from fucking powerlifting.

The only point you have is on your head you dumb bastard.

>>38450308
Looks very natty

>>38449132
You are 70% correct and 45% wrong

>>38450316
>that English
You're a eurofaggot, that explains all this stupid shit.

>>38450307
>>38450320
>took dnp or clen to lower body fat
DOESN'T COUNT GUYS I THINK ALL GEAR IS FOR GETTING HUGE.

>>38450228
yes and I use to believe strength and hypertrophy were directly linked and grew at the same time

you can gain size without much strength and you can gain strength without much size

>>38450348
>gain size without strength
It just doesn't work that way

>>38450347
Lmao do you actually believe you can retain that much size while cutting as a natty without a good test/tren base?

Youre delusional buddy.

Enjoy your second year of lifting. Im sure once you up your bench by 50lbs youl suddenly be massif

Keep chasin that carrot on a stick until you realize str training as a natty is a joke

>>38450387
>without much
come on...

>>38450294
You really are fucked in the head kid

>>38450387
It literally does tho

>>38450393
>keep chasin that carrot on a stick
>The guy advocating hypertrophy training
OIY EAT DAT CHICKEN BREAST AND BE DEDICATED GUVNUH.

>>38450400
much is a very subjective word

>>38450393
Good thing people who strength train on their own aren't doing it to become power lifters or strongmen.
Just stronger then they were before.

Once people realize that most of their natural test was pissed away and is now permanently stuck maintaining the mass of their lower body and mid back...people will be pissed.

>>38450417
I dont even know what point youre trying to make

Just admit that youre immasculated in real life and like to hold some sense of superiority over the bigger guys at your gym cause you can deadlift 10lbs more than them, while being half their size

Deadlift numbers dont get you laid. But im sure you know that deep down

>>38450405
Nice argument, very solid

>>38450436
What the fuck are you talking about retard. This entire argument was about nattys doing hypertrophy training and how stupid it is.

What year in the 90's were you born. I need to know how fucking retarded of a millennial I'm dealing with.

>>38450442
There is nothing to argue, that's like asking for an elite natural bodybuilding physique. Who gives a fuck about natural or not.

It's all about progressive overload. If your weights go up, your size goes up regardless of reps.

There isn't some magic formula that jacking off with 20lb dumbbell curls for 12x12 at the same weight for years is going to grow your arms 20 inches. 12x12 may be fine, but you still have to progress your weights.

>>38450479
1989 bitch and im twice the size of you

How is hypertrophy as a natty pointless? Cause i wont be as jacked as a roided bber?

Hate to break it to you bud but youl never get elite lifting numbers without roids either

Lifting naturally is pointless on both sides

The ACTUAL thing were discussing in this thread is that you can get bigger withojt getting stronger, and bench numbers can go up without your chest getting any bigger

Deal with it, its reality

>>38450484
>Who gives a fuck about natural or not.
Steroids make any kind of training irrelevant, with enough steroids you can go flex in the mirror twice a week and still gain ten times the amount of muscle as any natty

>>38450527
>I've given up and just gone retarded: The Post
Don't ever fucking reply to my posts again you worthless faggot.

>>38450544
>flex in a mirror twice a week
>Still can 10x the amount of muscle
Jesus christ your newness is showing

>>38450559
Yeah man I'm so new : ) and you are so wise and old you can deadlift and squat, woah you cracked the code mate, and also know so much about gear !

>>38450484
>It's all about progressive overload. If your weights go up, your size goes up regardless of reps.

That's true, but the way you're saying it is misleading.

Mass comes from high reps with a moderately heavy weight and exercises that build up lactic acid and cause muscle failure.
Old man strength. The kind of shit that's useful in real life and can be applied 24/7.

Toy strength and piss poor endurance is for suckers.

>>38450559
Not ten times, but a far larger amount of mass then a natural who works out diligently yes.
That's a fact.

>>38450554
>says ive given up actual arguments
>refutes none of my points and calls me bad names and spouts memes in a desperate final attempt

Thanks for ending this

>>38450527
this post is 100% correct and it's sad to see people that are disagreeing with it
the ones disagreeing are probably <1 year lifting or haven't done a hypertrophy and strength routine so have no experience in the matter

>>38450527
>How is hypertrophy as a natty pointless? Cause i wont be as jacked as a roided bber?
Because doing 12 reps with 45lbs will leave you smaller and weaker then a guy doing full body compounds with for 5 reps with 200 or more lbs.

>Hate to break it to you bud but youl never get elite lifting numbers without roids either
Irrelevant

>Lifting naturally is pointless on both sides
Irrelevant

>The ACTUAL thing were discussing in this thread is that you can get bigger withojt getting stronger, and bench numbers can go up without your chest getting any bigger
Your bench will not hit 300lbs without your chest getting bigger. You can do endless 100lbs dumbbell benches without your chest getting bigger though

>Deal with it, its reality
Yes, and the reality is hypertrophy is less efficient than fullbody workouts focused on 85% or more of your max as a natty. Making gains inspite of your routine is not the same as because of your routine.

>>38450752
The delusion, yet doesn't post any examples
>but I'm right ! I'm right ! you are new !

>>38450752
>Making gains inspite of your routine is not the same as because of your routine.
That don't get it brah, it's time to let this one die.

It's easy to spot the dyles. They seem to be everywhere ITT

>>38450752
>Your bench will not hit 300lbs without your chest getting bigger. You can do endless 100lbs dumbbell benches without your chest getting bigger though

According to who?

>>38450778
The way the human body responds to increasing stress through adaptation?

>>38450752
>MORE STRENGTH = MORE MUSCLE

its simply not true and grossly oversimplifying a very complicated process with 20+ variables

Rippetoe started this carrot chasing meme and hes fuckin dead wrong about it

>>38449624
>>38449783
>>38450324
50% of the 10% = 5% that are doing it correctly you fucking mouthbreathers

>>38450790
>The way the human body responds to increasing stress through adaptation?
And it's been fucking proven that lifting 100 pounds all day will create muscle mass.

That building peak mass has more to do with strength endurance and lactic acid build up and burning stored muscle glucose then absolute strength.

You would have fucking NEVER caught a lifter doing the quick 40 minute strength routines and fuck all else back in the day.

The guy who wrote the strongest shall survive and reg parks both wrote beginner routines for bodybuilders that put on mass and strength.
Focusing solely on strength is FUN and you will eventually start to build some mass but it won't get you dat dere mass that an old school routine that was focused on both peak strength and strength endurance can.

>>38450851
Are you 100% sure?

File: maxx chewning.jpg (164KB, 1280x720px) Image search: [Google]

164KB, 1280x720px

>>38450752
>Because doing 12 reps with 45lbs will leave you smaller and weaker then a guy doing full body compounds with for 5 reps with 200 or more lbs.

12 * 45 = 540
5 * 200 = 1000

you're going to the extreme opposites but you're still wrong here's maxx chewning deadlifting 500lbs
he's 5'10
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=iMm0jNHHGwo

and here's victoria liang lifting more than you with less muscle
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=uYC71vggUUo

>>38450902
Listen to this man for he is wise

>>38450982
There is no fuckin way on earth she can bench 220. Estat bullshit

But ya, another example of how you can be 'strong' and look like a complete fuckin weakling

Once again flying in the face of the 5 MORE STRENGTH UNITS = 5 MORE MUSCLE UNITS meme

If muscle and strength were the same then we wouldnt have 2 distinct words to describe these 2 very different concepts

>>38451127
Its like sayin horsepower and torque in a car are the same shit

Yes theyre related but they both describe different things and increasing one does not necessarily increase the other

>>38451127
>There is no fuckin way on earth she can bench 220. Estat bullshit
there's a video of her doing that right here >>38450949

>>38451231
Lmao just like i thought

Huge back arch + tits + wide grip + short arms gives her like a 5inch ROM

This is an illusion of strength not an actual display

File: 1450486632496.jpg (33KB, 625x626px) Image search: [Google]

33KB, 625x626px

>>38451298
you do it then, she actually has good ROM compared to a lot of others

>>38450006
>4 sets of Deadlifts 8-10 reps
Lol what a tard. No wonder his back was so mediocre

>>38450982

Bench 220
Squat 340
Deadlift 405

But can only do 10 pull-ups ????

File: maxresdefault.jpg (45KB, 1280x720px) Image search: [Google]

45KB, 1280x720px

OP here, I fucking clicked delete on this thread 1 minute after making it, come back hours later and this is the exact conversation I wanted to see guys, damn! Lol'd many times reading through this.

And this thread has the best real discussion/debate I've witnessed on this thread in a while.

There's been so much complaining and pointless shit.

Let's talk about optimizing gains, brahs

>>38451332
I can do it. Properly, with no arch and a huge ass ROM with my 6'2 wingspan

For more than 1 rep

Fuck this girl

>>38449899
Congrats to getting fatter. But your pic belongs to /fph/.

so what do i have to do if i want to get big.

and when should i switch from strenght routine to hypertrophy?

also if i keep the compound lifts strenght style (5 reps heavy weights) and add other exercise with higher reps is it considered hypertrophy or is it shit.

halp

File: 4OCA6yC.jpg (18KB, 271x288px) Image search: [Google]

18KB, 271x288px

>>38450436
>he lifts for girls

File: vaporwave.jpg (30KB, 402x599px) Image search: [Google]

30KB, 402x599px

>>38451512
>when should i switch from strength routine to hypertrophy
you dont unless you wanna stay small like the faggot above

>>38451593
wat

>>38449039
if you want to look good you have to roid

heavy lifting will only increase your chance or injury

linear progress is retarded especially for beginners

lightweight barbell squat, dead, press, bench press and chinups is all you need

>>38453165
and you don't need high reps either. you will be spending a long, long looooooong time hammering your form down while still making gains all with minimal or no need for linear progress. when you finally have the form of a fucking ballet dancer then and only then do you begin your linear progress routine

>>38449132
>90% of them know what the fuck they're doing
>10% that knows what the fuck they're doing
>50% of them do it correctly

so 50% don't know what they're doing?

>>38449132
so only 5% of them know what theyre doing

>>38451379
Chicks suck ass at heaves.
Im sorry but i dont give a shit, ive never seen a girl do more than 12, and i have never seen a girl use more weight than 10kilo.

>>38451416
Video? Or you're just an estat liar