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/Fit/, do you cry at funerals? >Crying increases estrogen

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/Fit/, do you cry at funerals?
>Crying increases estrogen levels and decreases testosterone
>It shows your friends, family abd any potential mates that you are weak
>>
>>38300635
Never been to one.
I haven't cried since I got in a skatepark fight in hs with 3 niggers.
I beat them up and then started crying for some reason.
Its been years though
>>
>>38300635
Crying on occasion is good for you, diminishes cortisone and such.

I cried in my grandfathers funeral when the casket was lowered into the grave. Had to hold them back during a friend's funeral after a particularly powerful psalm.
>>
>>38300635

I haven't cried since I was a young child.
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>>38300635
I don't cry at funerals, just crack jokes instead
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>>38300635
>Be me, 14
>Be at my Grandpa's funeral
>He wasn't a real big part of my life, so that might be why I didn't cry during it
>I still feel like I should be crying because obviously everyone else is
>His casket is lowered
>Everyone giving each other hugs and crying on each other's shoulders
>Older brother gets to me
>Face and eyes all red from crying
>Sees me with no tears
>"What's wrong with you?"
>He hugs me
Shit fucked me up
>>
Only at my father's funeral when I was 7
>>
Been to three funerals in my life. All grandparents, we were decently close.
Ive never felt the need to cry at any of them

Got yelled at by mum for not crying the first time,
Second funerel, " I dont even know why youre here, youre obviously not upset"

The day of the third funeral i was told not to come because it was offensive to people that i wasnt upset. I went anyway
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>>38300635
Everyone grieves differently. You don't need to be obsessed with appearing strong if somebody really close to you died/got hurt.
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>>38300635
Not always. The last one I cried at I was in my early 20s. It was my grandma's funeral. She introduced me to music, which is now my career. I was OK until I got up to speak. Not sobbing or anything, but some tears came.
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>>38300656
>beat up 3 nigs in a fight
>started crying because so much better than them
Nice /pol/ wetdream
>>
>>38300773
It was probably the stress
>>
My wifes son was hit by a car whilst he was riding his skateboard. I did nothing but comfort my with, not once did I cry though.
This "lack of emotion" as my wife out it, started a lot of fights between me and my wife. Three months after the funeral, she filled for divorce. I guess their mutual grievance gave them something to bond over because my now ex wife is back and living with her first husband

Life sucks
>>
>>38300794
*Wife *put

sorry for the typos, im actually a depressed alcoholic now, but im trying to keep moving forward with my life
>>
>>38300656
internet tough guy. You beat 3 guys? kek.
>>
I cried more when my best friend if 8 years died then i did when my uncle who i looked up to my entire life died. Not a single tear for my uncle. They both shot themselves and i feel that their deaths being 3 months apart i might've grown numb to the idea of someone actually shooting themselves
>>
>>38300635
source about crying?
>>
>>38300733
Wow shitty family, sorry dude.
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>>38300794

Maybe because he was black you didn't care?
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>>38300705
it's ok breh. Why cry for someone you weren't close with
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>>38300733
what tha fock? she yelled at you?
lol you should Beat some sense into her thick skull.
maybe even deliberately piss some of them off.
>>
>>38300635
No but I almost cried the other week when I was catching the bus home from work and I looked back on how I fucked up my life.
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Every few months I like to take a lonely night, like a very lonely night, to look at sad stuff and tear up a bit, just so if something happens irl I can be an the one who isn't losing it and am calm about it.

This actually worked one time my grandpa died.
>it only kinda worked
>as soon as the pipes played I managed a single tear from both eyes
>as soon as I wiped them away I was good for the rest of it
>fucking pipes
>>
It takes a big man to cry, but it takes a bigger man to laugh at the first man for crying.

Jack Handy
>>
>>38300733
You don't even seem to care. You can come and not cry, but if your attitude is "I wish I was home, playing vidya and discussing waifus on shit posting communities" then you're an arrogant faggot, and it shows.
>>
>>38300635
I've never been to a funeral, but yes, I cry, probably a lot. I cried when my cat died, I cried when me and my ex gf broke up, I regularly cry during sad movies. Sometimes I cry when I watch the news and see how fucked up things are. I once cried because I saw a little bird that was sick and I couldn't do anything about it. It's probably gay etc, but I don't give a shit. It's how I deal with things and ultimately it feels fucking good.
>>
>>38301722
People die all the time. It will happen to all of us . I dont see why we need to make a big fuss of it
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>>38301806
But you were sad? Like, when you think of some nice memory of the people you lost and then realize that this person is now gone, that you can never share anything ever again with that person, that doesn't make you sad? Like, it's not even a thought as conscious and abstract as I just explained, it just pops up and fills you with sadness, like very immediately. That doesn't happen to you?
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>>38301765
It takes a man to admit sensitivity. Good on you bro.
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my sister committed suicide several months ago and it was the first death i experienced. it was such a surreal experience, the only moment i cried is when i first got the news from the cops and when her favorite song was played at the service while there was a slideshow of photos when we grew up together.

i try to look to the future and not revel in the past, but sometimes it gets hard. just a few days ago there was a moment where i mentioned sister (not referencing mine) to my gf and a few minutes later the emotions just hit me like a brick and i was struggling to not start crying in the restaurant we were eating at.

suicide is horrible.
>>
>>38301806
Really makes you think...
>>
>>38300742
Fag
>>
>>38300635
For some reason, death of family members has never bothered me all that much. Even as a young kid <10 y/o it never upset me and eventually i realized that its just an inevitable part of life and there's no need to be sad about it
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>>38301825
Mmm no..
Unless the person is in my immediate vicinity, or we've talked very recently, I usually completely forget they even exist. The fact that people have their own lives when they arent around me is a completely foreign concept to me, everyone just feels like a background character to my life
>>
>>38301871
Exactly!
The last thing I want after my death is for people to all get together to cry and make each other depressed.
Cart my body off so my organs can be harvested and my body can be used for experiments and be done with it
>>
>>38301882
You're a sociopath then
>>
>>38301898
If i can be diagnosed by a couple of posts on an anime image board, why do we even need psychologists? Cheers, dickhead
>>
>>38300705
Don't worry about that. That's normal. Your older brother had gotten to know the man better.
>>
>>38301871
>>38301898
Nah, there are many reasons to feel that way. My personal experience is that the extent of how I feel empathy grew with my life experience. When I was younger I felt basically no empathy at all. It just didn't occur to me. Only later I learned how to do that, basically trained myself to feel what others feel and now it sometimes overwhelms me. Despite what people say, I deeply believe that empathy is kind of a learned skill. Not completely, but a large part of it.
>>
>>38301919
As a matter of fact, psychologists are the most useless people that ever existed.
And yes, it can be diagnosed by the fact you lack empathy, nigger.
>>
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>>38300635
I work in hospice so I go to funerals weekly and witness about 5 people die a week.

I cried at the first couple, then stopped.

Yes it's still sad, but you get used to it.

No I don't feel weaker for feeling sad/crying there. In fact experiencing death tends to make me motivated to work harder, sticking to my exercise and diet.
>>
>>38301919
I literally googled everyone feels like a background character and got people talking on autism/schizophrenia forums. You need help.
>>
>>38301849
You should have stopper her. How shit of a brother are you for not noticing her depression?
>>
>>38301934
Well anon, if you have to learn how to feel like a normal person, you aren't a normal person.
I should know, i'm like that too.
>>
>>38301919
Fucking hell you are one autistic idiot. Such a big strong man for stating the textbook edgelord hurr everyone dies response.
>>
>>38301934
Only in the last year or two have I learned that people react and feel different emotions than what I do. Although I dont think I will ever be able to feel them myself, Im slowly learning to recognize and respond the way a normal person would.

>>38301937
Just because I lack empathy doesnt make me a sociopath.
Up until I was about 15, I had literally zero social skills. This makes me think that Id be leaning more towards the autism spectrum
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>>38301896
I would rather be happy that there was any time spent with them at all than to be sad that they are gone

>>38301934
Even i can't do that much, whenever i empathize with someone else there's always this nagging thought in the back of my head that i'm just faking it
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>>38301965
If you have to learn how to feel like a normal person, you aren't a normal person.
As you said, you could have an autistic disorder or some other personality disorder, non necessarily sociopathy.
>>
>>38301945
>You need help.
How exactly would I get help?
Other than try to train myself to respond like a normal person I dont think there is much that can be done?
>>
>>38301954
I'm fairly certain that I'm perfectly normal in that regard, but thanks for the concern I guess. My idea is just that you can only feel true empathy with people who are in a specific situation when you've been in a somewhat comparable situation. It's like that supposed quote by Marie Antoinette "Let them eat cake" -- It's not that Marie Antoinette was a pathological psychopath, it's just that the experience of starvation was so removed from her daily experience that she just couldn't empathize.
>>
Haven't been to a funeral yet but honestly unless I'm really close with that person I probably wouldn't cry.
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>>38301988
You're right, you're already doing what you should be doing. Try to fake some emotion at funerals too, next time.
>>
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>>38300635
>Crying increases estrogen levels and decreases testosterone
>>
Was bullied pretty hard as a young kid for being kind of a wimpy crybaby. Grew up never letting myself cry at anything because of it, and now I can't cry at funerals anymore.
>>
>>38302042
And that's how school shooters are created
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>>38300635
Wrong and wrong. It shows that you are strong, strong enough to feel that pain in front of others, strong enough to not hide it from them. Hiding is for the weak.
>>
>>38301988
Like another anon said, if you have to learn how to be human, you arent human.
>>
https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=qdBJ1X33rXM

Free cry, on the house
>>
i sure as shit cried at my twin brothers funeral
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I usually press X.

Dont want to be looking disrespectful.
>>
>>38301806
Nihilists all need to die.
>>
You can cry at any funeral with the exception of your parents funeral. That's to only funeral you're expected not to cry in . I didn't cry at my fathers funeral at 16 but I did cry at my ex girlfriends funeral a few years later
>>
>>38302207
>Not pressing F
Fucking console faggot
>>
>>38302392
Wait why
>>
I can't cry at funeral. I'm upset and sad but not to the point of crying. I just feel uncomfortable. My 2 of my sisters are the same way but our other sister who is more emotional, was balling her eyes out. She even questioned how we weren't feeling the same way she was.

When my grandfather passed away, we were all in his hospital room the moment he died so I did cry my eyes out right then and there. But i didn't cry at the funeral.
>>
>>38302669
Because you're supposed to be in control of the situation and show strength and speak clearly and beautifully for your parents. If you have children you want them to realize at that moment that death is a natural part of life and one day you will be gone but they will be as strong as you were when your parents died.
>>
>>38300635
Uhh, im pretty sure thats not what crying does to our hormones. If anything if you're hormones are un balanced you're more likely going to cry for no real reason. Its like a pms hissy fit.
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The last time I cried was when my dad fell off our roof last month. I didn't want him to die. My mother also had cancer the last year and I cried about that a decent amount.
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>grin and get giggly when emotionally overwhelmed
>everyone thinks I'm an edgelord
>>
You can cry when your father or dog die. Or if you are a veteran you can cry at solemn occasions for your brothers in arms. But cry like a man.
>>
I treat each and every funeral as an opportunity to flex my fit stats. I volunteer as pall bearer and initially impress the chicks (who transition between grief and 'mirin' my aesthetics, 7/10 would fuck) by singlehandedly deadlifting the coffin, transitioning to a military press before finishing off with an ass to grass squat to lower it to the ground, and lastly a pendlay row position to place the coffin in its final resting place. Whats your /fit/ funeral routine?
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>>38303535
Same.

Maybe I am an edgelord. Or just incredibly emotionally retarded in line with the average 4chan poster.
>>
>>38301765
Perfect answer.
>>
>>38300635
Cried when I was 16 and we pulled the plug on my dad, didn't cry at his funeral. Cried the most when I had to tell him goodbye when he was in a coma, shit is fucked yo
>>
I don't, I've always been able to deal with grief decently well. Sometimes I'll cry later if something really important to me about the person comes up.

For example, my Grandma died recently. I didn't cry hearing about it. I did cry when my girlfriend said she would get good at making pies for me because my grandma was an amazing baker.
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>>38303812
I'm sorry m8
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>>38303948
Thanks man
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I can't honestly remember the last time I cried, not even when cutting onions. I honestly think there's something wrong with me. I've got depression and anxiety and take meds for it, but even at my worst I just feel shitty, no tears.

feelsbadman,jpg
>>
>>38300705
>grampas funeral
>feel awkward because i dont feel like crying
>dad goes up to give speech
>see he's wearing sunglasses to hide the fact that he's crying
>bawl my fucking eyes out
>>
>>38300635
No, because I have something called self control.
>muy testosterone levels!
God, what a fucking beta you are if you care about this. Shows a huge level of insecurity.
>>
>>38301938
Do still cry at family funerals?
>>
>>38300635
crying over the loss of a loved one is not weak
only an autistic privileged faggot who has never faced hardship would think that.

go do the world a favour and drink a pint of bleach
>>
Hevnt cried in over 5 years. Last time I cried i was watching the end of gladiator and hadn't taken my AI all week.
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I cried when putting this big guy down. He was cuddled up in my arms when they gave him the lethal injection. Hardest moment of my life.
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>>38304330
>crying over a cat
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>>38304330
It's a fucking cat senpai, cmon the fuck on
>>
>Anon it's ok to cry it's a funeral
Thanks mum, but I just can't when it's a shock.
Pets and shit I'm prepared. Losing people makes me go into a withdrawal
>>
>>38301849
When my grandfather died, I was sad but find myself stoic. He had lung cancer and he was undergoing an experimental chemo. He reacted poorly and he declined fast. I remember coming home feeling cold and falling asleep. I woke up feeling better. He died soon after.

Then months later I'm telling my girlfriend about him and his legacy (he invented some really common dental stuff for the government) and I find myself really moved. Crying. It was weird.
>>
>>38304295
That movie was the last time I cried too, but it was two years ago
>>
>>38304371
>>38304382
I've never cried at any friend or familys funeral. Only my cat. It's truly a special bond between animals and their owner sometimes. I don't care if anyone thinks it's strange. Luckily you're not in a position to say it to my face.
>>
>>38304417
> Cries about a cat.
> Talks like an Internet tough guy.
>>
>grandfather died, didn't cry
>godmother died, didn't cry
>dog died, didn't cry
>friend died, didn't cry
>family friend died, didn't cry (x3)

I get sad and people see it but I never cry. I rarely show extreme emotion, positive or negative. My father is the same, he didn't cry at his sisters funeral.
>>
>>38301952
It isn't his fault, jackass. What is wrong with you? Your life might be miserable but that doesn't excuse this kind of behavior. Fuck yourself.
>>
>>38302974
You're a moron.
>>
>>38302102
this is the stupidest justification for crying i've ever seen. Lack of control over your emotions is weakness
>>
>>38301765
>I once cried because I saw a little bird that was sick and I couldn't do anything about it.

c-cute!
>>
>>38302102

Numale faggot detected
>>
>>38303587

>Dogs dying

Don't even get me started...
>>
You really think girls aren't attracted to your because you're CRYING?

WRONG

Girls give you a look like a little BOY because you have BETA GENETICS. no matter how long you spend in the GYM and how CULTURED you are? You'll still look like a BITCH next to Chad.

When CHAD starts tearing up at GRANDPA chad's funeral, his gramp'd entourage of FUCKBUDDIES and their nubile OFFSPRING get wet at the eyes and the CROTCH because he's got ALPHA genetics and you've got BETA results.

When CHAD cries, women see a COMPLETE man, confident in his emotions. When YOU cry they see a little bawling BITCHBOY.
>>
>See grandma on death bed
>she can't even respond to me
>Hold back tears
>hold back tears at her funeral

Wow /fit/ I'm so much more fkn manly than any of you beta kunts. Go fuck yourselves, bunch of pussy ass girls on here.
>>
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>>38304330
Fucking hell man hit me right in the feels.

>had cat for 10 years
>kept it at home but he wondered off at times would always come back
>the older he got the longer he would be gone
>got a job so i barely saw him but my dad or grandmother would tell me he showed up
>a month passes without me seeing him
>hey dad wheres the cat
>dunno anon haven't seen him in a month
>i think he died

I got #rekt, the worst part was i didn't know for sure, but my neighbors cat started wandering freely in my yard which meant my cat most likely died since my cat was bigger and tougher and would btfo my neighbors cat when he tried coming to the yard. Its been a year and i still keep waiting for that fucker to show up on my window by squeezing trough the blinds and getting stuck. He knew i had to let him in.
>>
I am actually jealous at men who are able to cry and display emotion. It's a mechanism that allows us to move on instead of bundling up the feelings inside which makes it worse. There's nothing beta about displaying your emotions, to an extent.

I want to be able to cry more but I can't. When something traumatic happens I just feel stunned and like it's not real which just makes it feel worse.
>>
>>38305743
Honestly i can't remember the last time i cried, i don't even remember crying when my grandfather died when i was a kid, i remember TRYING to cry when emotionally overwhelmed but i couldn't do it. I did cry a year ago actually, when i had a huge fight with my sister, but it wasn't just crying i basically threw a hissy fit and started hyperventilating, i started packing my bags to leave for good but it ended well, we both cried and apologized in the end, it was good because i got my feelings out because i would just take shit from my sister and ignore her but it really went to far that day. We are a lot closer now, still i felt like a huge bitch.
>>
>>38300635
It is only acceptable to cry when:
1) your dog dies
2) your child dies
3) when you watch "Brian's Song"
>>
The only funeral I have cried was at a recent Officer's funeral. I bawed my eyes out, shit was sad.
>>
>>38305452
>>38305462
>>
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>>38301765
I cried when Pearl said it was over.
Shit's gay.
>>
I cried when my dog died, he was already really old and weak. I was walking him and he laid down again as he sometimes did when he got tired, I sat next to him and he put his head on my lap and let out the last sigh of relief. I cried like a bitch and kept crying the whole way home carrying him
>>
>>38300705
It's ok senpai, I loved my grandpa more than anything and I cried way more when my parrot died
>>
>>38305743

I have no reason to lie on an anonymous imageboard, so I'll say I completely agree with you. I feel like everyone feels more emotions than I do, like I'm some fucked up robot or something. My life just takes various ups and downs and I don't even feel emotions changing, My grandma and grandpa died and I didn't tear up... My dog died and I broke up with a longtime girlfriend and I still feel nothing, except maybe sadness. Like the only emotion I have is melancholy or nothing. I'd give anything to be able to cry, to feel like I had a reason to. I know this isn't my personal blog, but don't you guys ever take that for granted
>>
>>38300635
I haven't cried since my dog died 3 years ago. Crying is stupid.

>inb4 autistic

I just think letting your feelings out is overrated. Makes you feel and look like a bitch and most of the time it can be avoided my rational reasoning. Crying is for women and for when a friend/family/pet dies. I'll give you 2 weeks to cry and let grieving happen, then it's just better to suck it up and allow yourself to get back into real life routines where you're busy enough to keep it off your mind.
>>
>>38300676
Underrated coping mechanism Imo. It makes people happier to tell a good clean joke before and after the service. Especially if it's related to the person.
>>
>>38301639
The pipes will really get you. I don't know why.
>>
>>38305626
This. Strong willed people know how to control the effects of their emotions.
>>
autistic betas

i cry or do whatever the fuck i want
beta losers worry what others think
>>
>>38300635
Last time I cried because of sadness was because my grandpa died who was more of a father to me than my actual father.
I usually cry because of happiness though, I don't know why I do that but I do.
>>
>>38304259
Haven't been to one since before I started working in the field.

I did then, but it was years ago.
>>
>>38300635
what about when we yawn, cause i tear up like crazy
>>
>>38301952
You're honestly the worst kind of person. If you blame a suicide on anyone other than the person committing it than you yourself should kill yourself.
>>
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I used to cry like a motherfucker when I got high on LSD, once I was tripping and eating doritos when I see a dorito on the floor, I felt so bad for the dorito because it was so alone and away from his friends I cried for like an hour.
>>
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>>38306572
>>
>>38306502
Suit yourself, but I understand that other's people opinions are important since they'll have a deep impact in my life.
>>
>>38306592
You're that tripfag aren't you?
Can't you just fucking leave, you're not funny.
>>
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>>38303621
Honestly tried to be serious for this thread until now.
>>
>>38304330
Dude. My golden retriever was laying her head on my arm as they injected her. I saw the eyes just lose life and I couldn't do it. I fucking miss her so much. RIP Bailey
>>
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>>38303621
When I buried my toddler I carried his casket myself and OHP'd it for shits and giggles.
My ex got mad as fuck.
Pic related, it was this kind of casket.
>>
>>38304330
is that cat in the pic dead or what
>>
>>38306611
exactly, and they'll probably see you as an autistic outsider who cant read the social cues lucky for you your fedora and trench coat are already black. everyones impressed that you're always dressed for a funeral but never cry
>>
>>38301988
Kek literal fucking autist
>>
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>>38300635
I was about 16 and my mom dragged me to a funeral for her cousins friends. Me and my sister were pissed off that we had to go since we didnt even fucking know the guy. Let alone even seen him before. People were crying and left a bad experience in my mind. Like why the fuck did I even have to go to that bullshit. My dad stayed home yet we all had to go. Being mexican sucks, apparently everyone is family...bullshit.

But in all; never been to a funeral for a close family member. But I dont know why but crying seems ridiculous. Death is death and crying wont bring them back. Most people dig there own grave with depression and addiction. I cant shed tears for someone who let their own house crumble. But I do get crying over a loved oned whose died of old age
>>
>>38301938
You guys do good work. All the folks working in hospice care treated my old man well. Thanks for all you do.
>>
>>38300635
You're going to funerals to meet potential mates? What the fuck is wrong with you?
>>
>>38303621
> transitioning to a military press

It's called a clean you fucking idiot
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>>38300635
>3 tours in Iraq
>""""""war hero"""""""
>right eye missing
>look like solid snake
>family members dying left and right from their own misfortune
>implying I can cry after seeing women raped and murder in sand dunes and villages
>war left me with no tears to shed
>>
>>38306153
Fuck man im almost crying reading this,
Also all edgelords fuck off
>>
>>38301882
I feel completely the same, I might think of some friend once in a while (not really friends since I usually don't do Shit with them) everyone else to me is just a side character, even my immediate family, they're just there to entertain me or something, I don't love them
I am literally autistic though, very mild case and highly functional but I believe I really am after all
>>
File: warMM.jpg (171KB, 746x982px) Image search: [Google]
warMM.jpg
171KB, 746x982px
>>38306974
>>
>>38300635
my grandmother, the woman who raised me and was p much my only remaining family member just died so yes, I cried a lot. G'way with your broscience, adults are talking.
>>
>>38302165
Fuck I'm a twin and the thought of this wrecks me.
>tfw I'm not sure if I have the guts to follow through with our agreement that whoever outlives the other has to call the dead one a fag in a speech at the funeral
>>
>>38305706
Kek

While you're at the GYM lifting WEIGHTS, CHAD is at funerals CRYING his fucking eyes out

While you're counting macros, CHAD is GRIEVING lost beloved and totally hot SLUTS
>>
>>38306021
>not The Iron Giant
>>
>>38306953
>not crashing funerals
>not banging grief-horny qt's
>not wanting the meatloaf now
>>
>>38304417
>I've never cried at any friend or familys funeral. Only my cat.
>It's truly a special bond between animals and their owner
>special bond
That's known as "sociopathy" fampai
>>
>>38308604
>sociopathy
no, its called being close to the thing you feed and see everything, and personify.
>>
>>38301675

Fucking killer reference. My mom bought me a book of his quotes when I was like 10. I wish I knew where it went.
>>
>>38301639
Organs (and Music) are brutal...
>>
>>38301919
Have you ever heard of the DSM-V (I think it will be the DSM-VI here shortly)? It stands for Diagnostic and Statistical Manual of Mental Disorders version 5. Look it up.
>>
>>38302404
We in the PCMR call those peasants. We normally have them working the potato farms.
>>
>Dad died early
>I'm an only child, we were super close
>Entire family loves me and knows how close we were
>Felt like I had to make an amazing speech
>Spent hours crying typing something up like some autist
>Practiced it and wanted to show my dads good side and how much I loved him
>Moment of truth and everyone saved me for the last speaker
>Over 150 people there because everyone including guys at work loved him
>I choke, forgot my notes, wing the entire thing
>Tears streaming down my face but somehow manage a clear voice

first time I had cried in probably a decade
Funerals are only sad if you were truly close to the person. My mom was a crackwhore so when she died I didn't even go the funeral.
>>
>>38306849
>strawman: the post
Why so mad bro? Sounds like I touched one of the reasons of your insecurity.
>>
I shed tears once.

My mortal enemy had finally succumbed to the final dark after years of battle. It felt as if I'd died myself.

For years, I wandered in a haze, seeking someone worthy of the challenge. Until that fateful day.

When I saw him on my screen, I couldn't believe my eyes. Impossible! His expertise of all matters related to 'the most dangerous game'. His fearlessness in the midst of a firefight. His willingness to take a man down with honor.

That was the second time I cried. Could this be? The game was again afoot!

Hemingway. Welcome back, my nemesis.
Thread posts: 151
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