What's stopping you from going vegan? The society and the

You're mentally ill. Sage

>>37096783
And here we see a typical Jason Blaha subscriber, kids.

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>>37096775
the fact that it's not an efficient or feasible diet for lifting and resistance training and any downsides of eating meat are completely mitigated by exercising and eating a balanced diet

sage

>>37096783
> i cant explain any valid reason to not be vegan so i will claim you are mentally ill, evenn though i have a psychopathic view towards animals

This video dismantles every single argument against veganism

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ueqDkY3aNAY
DO NOT RESPOND UNLESS YOU WATCH THE VIDEO AND YOUR ARGUMENT IS NOT IN THERE

>its too long and i cant concentrate
>im not gonna watch the video because i am too weak to admit i can be wrong on a subject

/thread

>>37096801
>if you exercise plaques disappear
it is irrelevant anyway, as that does not justfify killing

now see
>>37096812

>>37096775
Same family reasons.
The fact that I'm skinny as fuck and already have trouble eating enough to gain weight unrestricted rather then on vegan diet.

I'm very similar to you but I think my long term goal of how I'd like to improve my diet, I do not become full vegan for quite some time (if ever) just severely reduce my meat intake and stop dairy except if say a little in a coffee or in a cake or something.

It's like I think of vegan as the ultimate healthy way to eat if you can manage it but being allergic to nuts makes its hard for me to sustain RIGHT NOW.

(I'm 130 and 5'11 so I'm going to keep eating my bacon for breakfast and chicken breasts until I can get to a better weight before I try and remove things from my diet)

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>>37096812
> no mention of health benefits, just appeals to morality

and vegans wonder why everyone thinks they're preachy

> no mention of the feasibility of a vegan diet in conjunction with resistance training
> trying to shill your alternative lifestyle on a fitness forum

sage

>>37096830
>>37096812

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>>37096775
Meat is fucking delicious. You live but one life, enjoy it while you can.

>>37096836
>appeal to morality

thats not an appeal, its a valid point. But great thing you can get every nutrient without eating corpses, and you by pass cholesterol and saturated fat.

Plenty of vegan athletes, explain why it isnt "feasible in conjunction with resistance training"
>you cant
now please see>>37096812
as it dismantles your point better than i just did

>>37096775
i live meat and fish, more than i love nature and the world and i am not going to have kids.

>>37096822
but plaque does disappear if you exercise you tempeh-addled fuckwit

why do you think the best non-medical prophylactic for heart disease is exercise

> can't come up with a scientific reason
> m-m-muh morals

go die in a hole you B12-deficient cucks

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>>37096836

>>37096840
that does not justify killing

ffs, watch the video in this thread>>37096849

>>37096775
are you a cow? or are you a lion? Enjoy being in the bottom of the food chain idiot.

>>37096849
> explain why it isnt "feasible in conjunction with resistance training"

because all vegan athletes are geared to the gills

if you're a natty vegan lifter you wind up with a body like Virgin Gains

> keeps trying to bring in morality
I'm not arguing that, I'm talking about how it's not an efficient diet for weightlifting

>>37096853
it isnt, its diet.
A vegan diet is the only think that has been shown to reverse heart disease
>hurr durr its unhealthy

You are clearly stupid.
Also not b12 deficient and that is not just a vegan problem, so its invalid.
Burden of proof btw, show me how plaques disappear with exercise, while diet is not controlled.

>>37096874
http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC3459726/

literally second result on google

now your turn, show me how a vegan diet is the only one shown to reverse heart disease

>>37096862
>food chain does not include slaughterhouses

see>>37096812

>>37096868
well im gonna keep brining up morality, because thats the reason why you shouldnt eat corpses.

Plenty of omnivore athletes are geared, what is your point?

>steroids suddenly give you nutrients

>>37096884
> gonna keep bringing up morality
live and let live, bud. this is the reason why people hate you and your herbivorous ilk so much

> nutrients increase muscle synthesis
steroids push muscle synthesis rates much faster than they would normally, hence why muscle growth surges and continues in the absence of optimal dietary protein

>>37096884
that's because we are the intelligent animal and sadly natural selection produced you.

>>37096882
http://www.dresselstyn.com/site/success-stories/

just google image the study, now prove any other diet which has reversed heart disease.

Your study highlights my point by the way, you would know this if you read it

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>>37096884

> can't form a scientific argument
> w-w-well I have the moral high ground

>>37096915
Get asked to provide proof.
>just google image the study...

Vegan cuck

>>37096895
>live and let live
>just let me keep funding the industry which is killing our planet and animals without justification

>>37096896
yes, we are, which is why its weird how i have to explain to you it is morally wrong to kill and cause suffering when there is no justification to do so.

see>>37096812
YOU HAVE NO ARGUMENT

Nobody in this thread does

>not eating foods which cause plaques is unhealthy

I recognize it's the optimal and most efficient lifestyle in reverse to bodily age and performance. I'm just too weak willed.

Sausages taste too good

>>37096928
i also linked you the dr who is responsible for it you absolute retard.

>spoonfeed me im a retarded copse muncher

look i can name call like you!!

>>37096915
my study:
> most of the evidence supporting the cardio protective properties of fruits and vegetables is based on observational epidemiological studies, which have reported either weak or associations of low significance. Although fruit and vegetable consumption leads to lower blood pressure, little is known about its effect on lipids and blood sugar or whether it prevents plaque formation.

somehow this proves your point?

I can't find your study on that page btw but googling 'vegan diet reverses heart disease' yields nothing peer-reviewed, just anecdotes

posting this again, because most people will just scrroll past the link above because they are too scared to admit they are wrong.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ueqDkY3aNAY

This video dismantles every argument. No need for anybody else to post anything now.

>>37096931
Don't need one. Every single person that replies to you is just doing it for the b8 m8.

Nobody cares, honestly :^)

>>37096947
>the work of dr esselytyn is not peer reviewed.

yes it says that because those people are still injesting cholesterol you fucking idiot. Look at any study where patients do not injest cholesterol.

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>>37096957
> it's not peer-reviewed because it's blatantly biased
> b-b-but it's still legit I promise

>>37096943
Spoonfeed?

Ok here is proof that veganism is for devil children and retards.

Google.com

There, I even gave you the name of the website where you can find it.

>>37096947
not him, but the lipid hypothesis is very well known now. It has studies over 100 years backing it. Cheif of american cardiology recommends not eating cholesterol, never go full retard.

i actually eat meat but to say it isnt linked to CV disease is dumb, just like a smoker denying smoking causes cancer

>>37096931
>>just let me keep funding the industry which is killing our planet and animals without justification

I'm not going to argue with you on this because I don't feel like arguing ethics on a Tajik turban-tips-n-tricks forum

I just want to call bullshit on all the pseudoscience vegans peddle

>>37096963
> because science shows how cholesterol is the only cause of plaque build up it must be biased.

Shut up child

>>37096978
> the fact cholesterol causes plaque build up which narrows arteries and causes blockages or reduced flow is pseudo science

>>37096973
>>37096985

I'm not arguing that

I'm arguing the claim that a vegan diet is the only route to reverse atherosclerosis

>>37097000
then show me another diet which has been shown to reverse it.
Exercise alone does not do this, it needs to be combined with diet.

Bacon is tasty prove me wrong vegans

Protip you cant you commie hipster fag

I dont want to give views for whoever fag made that vegan video. Can anyone summarize it for me?

>>37096775
I am not vegan because of people like you. Why do you feel so strongly about your diet that you have to go around preaching it like its the second coming of Jesus?

Do you also go around forcing your other believes into people as well? Are you part of any organizations like "Save the whales!" or whatever the fuck?

I was a vegetarian for a long time and it really agrees with my body and mind. I can really understand the whole "you don't need to kill to survive" but once I realized my own hypocrisy I grew out of it. Unless you really embrace the thing as a whole you're just a faggot who found a comfortable way to feel better about yourself.

Anyways, vegan diet is only possible because of modern society and all its advances, its really annoying to keep and not practical at all if you do high intensity exercises.

>>37097000
>>37097009
>not eating seafood to reduce plaque build up

Vegan diet isnt the only way to get your unsat fats retard

>>37096957
You halfwit, you need cholesterol to produce testosterone. You can't and shouldn't cut it out of your diet completely

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>>37096775

Honestly, it's not really about nutrition or anything for me (although it's true that it would make it a nightmare to try and balance macros).

It's just that I love the taste of food so much.
Eggs, cheese, meat, my god.
Even dishes that are mostly made of veggies are made a billion times better with the addition of things a vegan will never taste.

Savoring spinach with parmesan or mozzarella melted on it, celery casseroles, chicken salads combined with pretty much every veggie under the sun, there's way too many combinations available to talk about them in a single post.

The smell of searing meat, the crackling of oil under a frying egg, the creamy resistance under your knife when cutting into something filled with melted cheese.

This is what good food is made of.
Am I trampling every other species on the planet to achieve that?
Yes.
But lightning strike me down if it doesn't feel like it's worth it every single death.

>>37096775
OP do you think having pets are ethical?

>>37097178
*owning a pet is ethical

Fuck me I need to go to bed.

>>37096931
>it is morally wrong to kill and cause suffering when there is no justification to do so.

And yet orcas play volleyball with seals.
They don't eat them
They're not natural enemies
They have been studied to actually kill them for amusement, not even to eat them

Jaguars will at times kill prey animal and leave them there even if they're already satiated, just for 'playtime'

Cats are renown for their tendency to kill animals for sport

Nature is full of animals that do things like this just because they're bored, yet vegans want to convince humans that it's wrong to mass produce animals that taste good.

I could understand if you were preaching about hunting, but cows and chickens wouldn't even EXIST if we didn't have a need for them to be eaten.
They are born because we let them exist, and when their use has run out they are killed for their nutrients. Their juicy, delicious nutrients.

Every single carnivorous and omnivorous lifeform on the planet eats corpses. You just make it sound like it's a bad thing to further your cause.

Vegancuck left the thread kek

>>37096775
>What's stopping you from going vegan?
i'm not a pussyboy faggot and i don't care about animals or the environment

>>37096931
you sound like an insufferable faggot. i eat meat because as a human, it is my prerogative to dominate and consume every other species that can be consumed

>>37096858
>killing

You go ahead and try to eat only things that you don't have to kill to eat.

Humans are heterotrophic, so unless you're green like the hulk and full of chlorophyll, you've got to eat things that were once alive just like the rest of us. The difference is that the rest of us don't try to claim moral superiority, we just do what we all must quietly.

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>>37096775
i cut red meat and poultry, after 4 moths i feel disgusted by it.
still eats fish once in a while.
no more milk and eggs for me, but i still eat products that contain it as ingrediants.

i was like you anon, but everytime i saw people eating meat or buying it i felt disgusted by them, then i realised that i was doing the same thing they were doing, the breaking point was a restaurant where a group of people ordred a meal almost 90% meat. felt disgusted by those barbaric double digit IQ plebs.

went home and never touched red meat/poultry until this day.

>>37096840
cocain is delicious =/= good for you

fucking little girls is delicious for pedos, doesn't mean it should be allowed

see ?

>>37097714
Are you vegan for the animals?

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I slowly changed my diet until I was eating vegan for about six months. It was beneficial in that it allowed me to become more compassionate towards animals and, in turn, to other people. I credit this more to the reading I did on animal intelligence and sentience while researching vegan recipes, though.

I was in a pretty bad place mentally and looking into a vegan diet gave me the impetus to see things from a different point of view. A sort of window through which I was able to pay attention to the life around me after purposely and stupidly keeping myself ignorant for so long.

The problem was that it wasn't sustainable for me. I was feeling -- not worse and worse, but more and more on the edge; an amphetamine quality. Anyone who has fasted knows what I'm talking about. The mental clarity was nice for a few months, but it kept getting sharper and sharper, and not in a good way. Additionally, I was losing weight and barely making any gains strength-wise. I'm sure I could've found an affordable diet with more than adequate macros that also required minimal cooking time to fit into my schedule -- but doing so would require sacrifices that I was and currently still am unwilling to make.

I was also starting to become irrationally worried about hurting any living thing, to the point that I even felt guilty about eating plants. For a while, I seriously considered the possibility of subsisting on a fruit and nut diet, and wondering how I was going to avoid killing anything ever again. I still think it's horrible that any living thing should die for the benefit of another, but I recognize the reality of this world even as I work to change it.

Anyway, I now drastically limit my consumption of meat and do my best to eat to stay away from red or processed meats. The best and most lasting change that resulted from having a vegan diet is that I eat more fruits and vegetables than ever now, at least three-quarters of my daily food intake by volume. I highly recommend this.

>>37097726
both for the animals and for my health.

>>37097746
What's your opinion on pets? Good or bad?

>>37097739
the thing is, when you understand darwinism, you'll realise that cows/pigs cerebral cortex is similar to ours.

why the fuck would i hurt a friendly non hostile creature who can process and feel pain and suffering ?

like what the fuck ?

>>37097763
>why the fuck would i hurt a friendly non hostile creature who can process and feel pain and suffering?
to eat them

>>37097749
i'm against getting a wild animal as a pet.

cats and dogs are domesticated, and won't survive outside the house. i don't know and i don't care. they got it better than the cows and pigs.

>>37097768
why the fuck would i eat a dead corps that causes heart disease and diabetes ?

>>37097771
>cats and dogs are domesticated, and won't survive outside the house
actually, they are perfectly capable of surviving outside the house. domesticated cats can be exceptional hunters. i live in australia and my old cat killed possums on a regular basis. the possums were bigger than my cat

>>37097784
>why the fuck would i eat a dead corps that causes heart disease and diabetes?
you're an idiot. lots of things can cause diabetes. and there is only a suggested link between too much meat consumption and disease. correlation does not imply causation. you've got to try harder mate

>>37097787
first things first . that shouldn't be the focus right now IMO, i don't have a pet, but like i said at least the pets are getting love instead of a knife in their throat.
i'm against casterating kittens though.

>>37097811
>you're an idiot. lots of things can cause diabetes
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6t4tBmbPko8
>and there is only a suggested link between too much meat consumption and disease
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-6aAFKlr7hs

you sound like you need five minutes of reading of sources outside the USA meat board publishings.

>>37097816
>but like i said at least the pets are getting love instead of a knife in their throat
>implying farmers don't love their pigs and cows

>>37096775
>I respect animal more than human
Opinion discarded
SAGE
REPORTED
HIDE

>>37097837
>need sources outside USA meat board publishing
>Gives vegan sources are a reference.
Are you retarded?

>>37097849
>the world health organisation is less credible than the USA BILLION DOLLAR MEAT/MILK/EGG INDUSTRY

vegans don't have billion dollar industries that influence studies outcome.

get your head out of your ass and think about it a little bit.

>>37097872
>My biased source isn't as bad as your biased source.
So yes, you are retarded.

>>37096801
Studies have shown people on a vegan diet blood were able to kill cancer 9 times better than marathon runners with standard american diet.

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>>37097845

>x love y
>x doesn't kill y

pick two

>>37096830
"I have to kill animals because I have trouble eating enough food"

how about you stop making excuses

>>37097837
mate i have a phd in gastrointestinal health, i know all this. there are multiple risk factors for diabetes, meat consumption being one of the least important. and i can tell you there is no definitive link between meat consumption and cancer. correlation doesn't imply causation. being overweight, smoking and drinking are more important risk factors

>>37096853
>
You realize the animals you are eating are supplemented with b12 and other minerals and vitamins.

>>37097902
>tfw i would love to be there slaughtering that beloved pig, which has given its life to sustain mine
farmers can love their cows and pigs but they are still their property. they own them and need them to make a living. keep up with your emotional arguments. you're not going to make any headway at all

>>37097883
yep, that's one delusional necrovore.

you are the type of guy that likes the GOT MILK industry to tell him that butter is good for you on the times magasine so you'll feel better about your addiction.

anyway, survival of the fittest.
i wish you go bankrupt after your heart disease operation, fuck universal health care, let the necrovores pay for their own shit.

>>37097928
>You realize the animals you are eating are supplemented with b12 and other minerals and vitamins
glorious vitamins and minerals, to further aid with keeping us alive. the meat industry is truly amazing

>>37097902
I guess you must hate vegetables then.

>>37097943
>x love y as a property
>x exploits y for money
>x doesn't love y

pick three.

>>37097946
>Survival of the fittest
Given that butchering predates farming, I would guess we already know who the fittest are.

Again, no reason to be vegan.
>le supposed health benefits
show me peer reviewed studies, and your claims are so negligible i wouldnt care
>ur bein cruel boohoo
i dont care, meat is tasty
>ur a pussy/meanyhead
ad-hom
>wahh u can get everything from a vegan diet that u can from a meat diet
whey >>>>>> soy protein
>meat can be replicated through tofu
and it tastes like garbage. also see above.

>>37097872
>implying the world health organisation isn't biased
nigga are you retarded? the world health organisation can be just as objective as any other source and frequently publishes misinformation, especially regarding alternative medicine

>>37097955

>x "kill" y requires : [y is sentient.]


pick one

>>37097967
>implying you can't love your property and exploit it for money
>implying making money off it doesn't make you love it more
come on dude, try harder

>>37097986

>show me peer reviewed studies
nutritionfacts.org
>i dont care, meat is tasty
i don't care your little daughter is sexy

>>37097993
Are you implying you cannot kill plants?

>>37097771
>cats and dogs are domesticated

So only some animals are allowed to be owned, mutilated and deprived of their sexuality (neuter, spay). But others are not.

So you're a speciesist, that makes you a hypocrite, doesn't it?

>>37096775
Because its just zog trying to weaken the white race.

Oy vey! Whaddya need to be strong for! Leave that to those primitive negro's and go vegan!

>>37098000

>X doesn't kill his cat and sell it for money
>X protects his cat
>X loves his cat

pick three.

>>37098061
Cats are gross and wouldn't earn much.

I hate my current cats and would gladly sell them to some gook.

>>37098043
plants =/= sentient

we can only use the word "kill" when the thing we're killing is sentient.

>>37098061
>not understanding the difference between a family pet and a means of income
>implying pigs and cows are treated any differently from a family pet aside from they're not allowed to come inside the house
you can keep posting but you're only pointing out how out of touch with reality you are

I'm not a vegan because I don't give a fuck. Seriously. U mad brah?

I do what I want and what is best for me. Fuck everyone else.

>>37098061
No X snatches the cat from his/her mother when she was a kitten for his/her own personal plaything. How is that ethical?

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>>37096775
>What's stopping you from going vegan?
Because it's impossible.

Fruit comes from the exploitation of insects - almost all fruit farms buy their pollinators in packs of 2-12, with colored stamps on their backs for easy ID of your slaves.

Grains are gathered by machines who slaughter animals as they gather the crops.
More animals died for your loaf of bread than for your steak.

Vegetables seem to be actually vegan, BUT pesticides kill thousands of animals. Even the organic vegetables still have pesticides used on them, just organic pesticides - which still kill more animals for a single carrot than a KFC kills in a week.


The only possible vegan foodstuff is mushrooms, but those grow on fertilizer and that comes from enslaved and tortured animals.


There is no possible way to be vegan.

>>37098082
get your head out of your pooper and see this again :

>>37097902
>>37097967
>>37098061

>>37098152
Pls respond:

>>37098104
>>37098046

>>37096775
Commom sense. I'd rather not fight evolution, its done fairly well for us thus far

>>37096775
>None of them gets that being vegan does not mean you are a "commie", "fag" or a "hippie".


but that's wrong, out of the dozens of unsufferable fuckwits i've met who were vegans they could all be described with one of those labels. you are no different, you're on /fit/ so being a fag is a given.

>>37096812
>cites YouTube as if its a scholarly source
Yeah, it makes sense someone like you would go vegan.

>>37098076
who cares? let's slaughter some animals and eat them

>>37098104
no that's not, but i don't have a problem with it if he got the kitten and the mother living in the house.
>>37098046
>deprived of their sexuality
i said casteration is wrong.

>So only some animals are allowed to be owned
only live stocks are "owned" like property.
cats and dogs are considered family members.

>>37096812
responding anyway, i will continue to eat meat because i like the taste, and i don't like vegan meat substitutes because they taste like substitutes

>>37098189
>let's steal some little girls and fuck them.

>>37098152
>get your head out of your pooper and see this again
i have seen all of that. and the simple fact of the matter is, you can love something that is your property, exploit it and kill it for money and food. doesn't mean you love it any less. i sold an old cat of mine for money, doesn't mean i didn't love that little bastard. same goes for farmers

>>37098198
>i will continue to fuck little girls because i like the feel
>i will continue to snort coke because i like it.

>>37098209
>let's steal some little girls and fuck them
>doesn't understand the difference between a human and a lower life form
>doesn't understand the difference between slaughtering and fucking
how do you function in society?

>>37098233
>thailand
>south america

These things are legal, m8. Why not do them, if you want to?

>>37098233
nice strawman you double nigger

>>37098233
>equating a human being with a different animal
>equating sex with killing
>not continuing to snort coke because you like it
what's wrong with you

>>37096854
Why minus 40 res to water?

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What are the arguments about those who like meat taste and can't stand vegan substitutes?

>>37098195
>no that's not, but i don't have a problem with it if he got the kitten and the mother living in the house.

What is the likely scenario, outside of middle aged women going though a midlife crisis, that someone adopts several cats? And what do you do when they become sexually active lead them continue to breed?

>i said casteration is wrong.
That's fair

>only live stocks are "owned" like property.
cats and dogs are considered family members.

Are they really? If you love someone don't you give them their independence not dictate when they go for walks, eat, poop, etc?

>>37096775
>lean uncooked chicken meat is cheap.
>whey protein powder is cheaper than the vegan substitute.
>I'm a student already in debt. I'd like to not go further in debt to sate your desire to spam your morality.

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>>37098218
if you really loved your cat, you wouldn't have sold him to chinks so they can slauther him.

i mean pic related love his dog, he didn't sell it to chinks so they can boil him alive!

>>37098284
>you wouldn't have sold him to chinks so they can slauther him
>implying i sold my cat to be killed
>implying homeless people don't sell their animals
i sold my cat to a nice white family because i wanted the money. i made $100. made me love him even more

>>37098275
you got your priorities mixed here anon, there is no fucking way pets have it worst than live stocks period
i'll fight for the livestock first, the pets comes later.

>>37098306
>i'll fight for the livestock first, the pets comes later
why? they are people's property to do what they want with. they own them. you're going to dictate what someone does with their property? that's a very communist thing to do

>Animal products are delicious
>I'm too poor and lazy to look for vegan macro sources (for which I have no desire anyway)
>I don't think it's wrong to eat that stuff, what matters most is what you kill and how

>>37098306
>you got your priorities mixed here anon, there is no fucking way pets have it worst than live stocks period i'll fight for the livestock first, the pets comes later.

How is critiquing your own beliefs wrong? Surely identifying areas which can be improved makes you a stronger person?

>>37098243
>X can do Y =/= it's ok to do Y
>>37098239
>>37098260

>human and a lower life form
hiler considered the jews "inferior life forms", what make you think you're not doing the same thing ?

because in the interest we're discussing (avoiding pain and suffering) all sentient beigns are equal, (or at least all living things who have a cerebral cortex) they all feel pain like you do and don't want to die. that's the only relevant thing.
>doesn't understand the difference between slaughtering and fucking
ok
>let's kill some little girls then cause i like doing it
doesn't mean it should be ok to do it.

>>37098076
You don't get to redefine words to suit your argument otherwise I'll just redefine vegan as "baby raping cannible" and argue the merits of capital punishment for vegans.

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>>37096775

Serious comment here.

Rather than having these threads that are trying to impose an ethical diet on people (all it does is encourage trolls to write about how much they love their ignorance), can we actually start a /veggen/?

'veg' to incorporate vegetarian and vegan diets, and 'gen' for 'general' (obviously).

Am I the only one who wants this? There's very little stuff out there relating to veg diets and fitness. I think the sticky would be worth updating with more information (generally) about different diets and food (or do another sticky).

>>37098299
you just checkmated yourself brah
because farmers DO sell their animals to be killed, in fact most of them kill them then sell them.

>>37098374
>>X can do Y =/= it's ok to do Y
yes, but
>Y is legal and X can do Y = it's ok to do Y

>>37098438
legal =/= right

>>37098374
>hiler considered the jews "inferior life forms", what make you think you're not doing the same thing?
>implying the jews are aren't inferior
humans and other animals are not the same regardless of sentience. a human life is worth more, no matter how you try to spin it. other animals are not capable of what humans are capable of, and never will be. humans are superior
>>37098393
>you just checkmated yourself brah
no i didn't. i sold my pet, my personal private property for my own gain. just like farmers do. i just didn't kill him because the family wanted him alive. if i had a bunch of cows and my customers wanted meat, i would kill the cows and sell them the meat. how are you not understanding this?

>>37098576
“The question is not, "Can they reason?" nor, "Can they talk?" but "Can they suffer?”
―Jeremy Bentham
>humans and other animals are not the same regardless of sentience

when we discuss the things that are ok to be killed and the things that are not. the only thing that matter is wether that thing can feel pain and wether he wants to die.

it's called self interest. i'm not for giving the animals the right to vote because it's not in their self interest to do such thing.
now we have a friendly non hostile creature who have a cerebral cortex similar to yours in processing pain and suffering. you do understand that being born in captivity and living all your life in a cubical then slauthered is pure suffering and pain for that creature.
why would you support this barbaric unnecessary practice?

>if i had a bunch of cows and my customers wanted meat

but the thing is, if you really loved your cat you wouldn't have sold it even of some chinese custtomers wanted his meat. because you love him (i suppose)
the fact that you can sell a cow to be killed means that you don't care about it ! why is this so hard for you ?

>>37098306
Not really, I've pointed out you're a hypocrite and It's ironic you criticize others. I hope you change your view on pets for the better.

Animals are not meant to be owned, regardless of how "cute" they are.

>>37098576
>i would kill the cows

that's not very caring, you flip flopping faggot

>>37096775
I used to weight 290+lbs, 5'10"
I went vegan simply for weight loss
I told no one aside from my fiance because she wanted to loose a few pounds too.
I dropped to 235lbs in 6 months, my goal is to get below 200lbs.
When people ask how I lost the weight, I tell them I started doing cocaine.
I broke the diet and had a big fucking steak for my birthday.
I feel better, I look better, I shit better, I fuck better, I smell better, I am a better person.
All of the shit about environment, and animals is just a side effect that i don't care about, I would kill a pig with a hatchet and not give a fuck.

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>>37096775
I'm not vegan because I don't care about animals. They taste good that's all that matters

My ex was a vegan.

She was also 47 kg at 175 cm.

No, no, no, no, no. I will eat meat every day.

>>37098866

> implying these animals have the same mental capacity as humans
> not caring about deforestation
> not caring about the environment
> not caring about the loss of species

K.

>>37098873

> I will eat meat every day

That's excessive.

Eating lots of meat gives you cancer in the ass like smoking gives you lung cancer. This is a fact

>>37098884
Why should i care about any of those things? They don't affect me in the slightest

>>37098954

> They don't affect me in the slightest

Deforestation - reduction of oxygen which you need.
Loss of species - knock on effect on loss or too much growth of other species, changing habitats, etc.

People who are ignorant are bad.
People who are wilfully ignorant are worse.

>>37098884
Why do vegans make the most obnoxious posts on 4chan? It's like you can pinpoint who's a whiney pussy just from their posting style

>>37099000
Deforestation isn't an issue anymore and if a species can't adapt it doesn't deserve to survive. So again this has zero effect on me

>>37096775
Commie hippie faggot

>>37098752
>the only thing that matters is whether that thing can feel pain and whether he wants to die
no that's not the only thing that matters. as the most superior species on the planet, the only thing that matters is human survival. humans can do whatever the fuck they want to animals because their only use is entertainment and food
>why would you support this barbaric unnecessary practice?
because non-human lives don't matter at all and i want my meat
>if you really loved your cat you wouldn't have sold it
but i loved my cat. he was my bro. and i sold him. why would i bother giving him away when i can make some money off him?
>>37098838
>that's not very caring, you flip flopping faggot
i don't think you know what flipflopping means. if i were farming cats and i had a market for cat meat, i would kill that cats and sell the meat. that's how business works

>>37098866
this nigga gets it

>>37099022

>Why do vegans make the most obnoxious posts on 4chan? It's like you can pinpoint who's a whiney pussy just from their posting style

> most obnoxious
> calls me 'whiney pussy'
> complains of posting style but has nothing of substance

K.

>>37099058

> Deforestation isn't an issue anymore

You can't be serious...

Have you taken a look at South America? Bringing thousands of trees down on a regular basis to make way for Corporate America to feed its own cattle (the ignorant people) by erecting farms so companies like McDonalds can produce more beef for their burgers.

>>37096775
>I respect animals more than humans

The plants are living things too you know, unless you want to eat fruits without seeds for the rest of your life, so that argument a shit

>>37098866
>>37099123
>don't care about animals
But I bet you like having pets??

>>37099000
>deforestation - reduction of oxygen which you need.
we will never run out of oxygen
>loss of species
and humans will adapt to it. this also means that there will be more space for farm animals
humans will adapt, like we are designed to do. no other animal matters

>>37099151
no, anyone who keeps pets is retarded. why would i pay to keep a useless animal alive if i'm not going to any profit off it's existence or death?

>>37099170
that's one of the sexiest things i've ever seen. god i love meat and animal products

>>37099177
>it's existence
>it is existence

No, you are the retarded one.

>>37099153

Keep telling yourself that we won't.
It's a hazard nonetheless.

You can keep trumping the 'no other animal matters' line but all it illustrates is how lacking in compassion and respect you are.

>>37099170

I knew this would get posted.
I hope that's a family meal.
Another issue is food waste and overpopulation.

>>37099208
>pointing out spelling or grammar mistakes
>almost had to face the fact that my own argument is insufficient and easily refutable
nice try friendo

>>37099227
>Another issue is food waste and overpopulation.
Then help cull overpopulation by killing yourself.

>>37099177
>>37099228

> anyone who keeps pets is retarded

"It's estimated that 70-80 million dogs and 74-96 million cats are owned in the United States. Approximately 37-47% of all households in the United States have a dog, and 30-37% have a cat. (Source: APPA)"

>>37099237

Nah. I'm utilising my life to have a positive impact on people by trying to encourage others to coincide with the environment on which we're dependent on, as opposed to destroying it for the sake of short-term economic gain for the few, and as most people point out here, for their tastebuds...

>>37099177
because it's a luxury, so when you have monies you can spend it on anything , unless you're a hunter or other activities that requires animals

>>37099227
>It's a hazard nonetheless
no it's not
>You can keep trumping the 'no other animal matters' line but all it illustrates is how lacking in compassion and respect you are
no, it show's that i'm a realist who accepts things for the way they are
>Another issue is food waste and overpopulation
at least we agree on something. how anyone could waste that glorious platter is beyond me. and overpopulation is a problem because poor people outnumber rich people and only add to the worlds problems

>>37098388
just update the sticky, no more generals

>>37096858
What I eat is none of your business anon.

This is why people have a problem with vegans

>>37096849

>Cholesterol and saturated fat

LOL, have fun with your debunked, mid-twentieth century bullshit science

>>37099248
>It's estimated that 70-80 million dogs and 74-96 million cats are owned in the United States. Approximately 37-47% of all households in the United States have a dog, and 30-37% have a cat. (Source: APPA)
then nearly half of all americans are retarded. but that doesn't surprise me at all
>because it's a luxury
an unnecessary one. cocaine is an unnecessary luxury as well, but it's much better than any stupid animal

>>37098388
what makes you think trolls who enjoy rustling emotional little pussyboy jimmies will stay away from those retarded threads?

>>37096775
I don't want to be more picky about my food than I already am.

When I turn down a soda people already tell me I'm being dramatic. Imagine not being able to eat anything but plant based food and epic almonds. People would think you are a fucking loser.

Also yes I too think vegans are pussies and retarded. Mostly because thybare such fucking attention whores.

>>37099291
>an unnecessary luxury
nigga that's a redundancy

>cocaine is an unnecessary luxury as well, but it's much better than any stupid animal
well that's just like your opinion
and about the reason why would anyone like to keep animals as pets is already answered. Just a damn luxury

>>37099373
>Just a damn luxury
so by your logic, seeing as owning a pet is entirely unnecessary, owning a pet is also a redundancy

>>37099425
well, you don't need a pet to breathe, but if you were a disabled guy who's blind, a dog would be great animal to help you
>owning a pet is also a redundancy
more like
>owning anything that doesn't help you in the right moment or just a whim because you have the money/time

>>37096775

meat is delicious and full of protein

you kill plants, we kill animals. why act superior?

>>37099110
you are the most disgusting pile of crap i've ever talked to on the internet, you must be an ugly/fat poor person that never experienced something good in his life.
i wish you die from a weird disease, you pathetic retarded pleb.
i just want you to know how i feel.

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>>37099556
>>37099177
>>37099203
>>37099170
>>37098866
>>37099123
>>37099058
>>37099074
>>37099110


humans need to be nuked ASAP desu

i wish some vegan scientist snaps and releases a virus that ends the human existance on this planet, because humans are the most disgusting virus that ever lived.

and it will happend, it's just a matter of time.

>>37099743
edgy af

>>37096840
not at the expense of other lives

>>37096853
animals are supplemented with B12 soooooo

>>37096862
what kind of retarded argument is this

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>>37096775

>>37096868
>all vegan athletes are geared to the gills
>Brian Turner
>Jon Venus
>Vegan Physique

>>37099776
do you think the people i quoted deserve sympathy ?

i would burn those anons alive then piss on their ashes.

>>37097067
Not him, but its obvious why they feel strongly about their diet.
Because its not a diet. Its a lifestyle that reduces animal suffering. The ones preaching veganism aren't (usually) the ones doing it for self-interest.
Some people will feel so strongly about saving lives that not only will they become vegans, they'll try and encourage others to go vegan. Shocking, I know.

>>37097234
>animals kill other animals for no reason
>we should kill animals for no reason

serial killers exist too. hmm maybe killing people aint so bad after all

>>37097545
>You go ahead and try to eat only things that you don't have to kill to eat
>what is veganism

>>37098084
so edgy

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>>37096775
>What's stopping you from going vegan?

I really like dead animal flesh, and think it is healthier to eat meat, eggs, and dairy than it is to avoid them. If either of these wasn't the case I would definitely go vegan. It is also much easier to get your macros right this way, and I'm not too keen on the phytoestrogens in alternative protein sources.

Morally I don't give a shit about animals suffering for my nourishment. They do worse shit to each other in the wild than humans do to them in farms.

If I had the resources I would raise and butcher my own animals. It is cheaper and would be pretty fun/satisfying. Probably healthier as well since they wouldn't be loaded up with god knows what drugs/food they feed them.

As a bonus, eating meat pisses off some people that politicize minor issues instead of focusing on major ones.

>>37098108
not technically, no
the only way to go completely vegan is by killing yourself
thanks for the nit-pick, but its obvious what OP means. Whats stopping you from going as vegan as you can?

>>37098263
tough fucking shit
stop killing animals

>>37098282
vegan diets can be just as cheap, if not cheaper, than meat-eater diets

>>37098327
>Animal products are delicious

Couldn't give a fuck. Stop killing animals

>I'm too poor and lazy to look for vegan macro sources (for which I have no desire anyway)

Couldn't give a fuck. Stop killing animals

>I don't think it's wrong to eat that stuff, what matters most is what you kill and how

Literally what are you talking about

>>37096775
Because i'd like to make progress if that's alright with you

>>37100048
No, really, go away. You disgust me.

>>37099148
plants aren't sentient bucko. try again

>>37099332
wow anon, your life sounds really hard

>>37099970
>I really like dead animal flesh

Wow I couldn't give a fuck

>think it is healthier to eat meat, eggs, and dairy than it is to avoid them

I'm glad you think that way anon. The research suggests otherwisee

>>37097890
What studies? if you're going to claim something outlandish, cite your sources please.

>>37100054
Making progress on a vegan diet is harder?
Enlighten me sir

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This vegan rodent is bigger than you. Just consider that for a second.

As a vegan, all you have to worry about is vitamin b12, which is trivial, and omega-3s, which is a little bit harder since ALA has a poor conversion factor, 5-15%, in the body. Have that figured out and you too can be big and healthy as a vegan.

But then what's ultimately stopping me from becoming vegan is reliance on protein powders (I eat beans all the time, they're not a convenient protein source, more akin to a carb/fiber source), and then the overall hypocrisy of veganism, where simply living a modern existence in society, vegan or not, contributes severely to the decline of the natural environment as well suffering and death of its species. This is unavoidable as long as you consume electricity, drive vehicles, live in houses, wear clothes, and pretty much do anything. So what point is there in reducing the suffering of some for moral bragging rights when it's all ultimately narrow-minded bullshit? As long as veganism is caught withing a societal bubble, it remains no more than a cheap game of consumerist society, one that people play to feel better about themselves and their existence.

>>37096915

These are Esselstyn's studies, which are peer reviewed

http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/7500065
http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/25198208

>>37096947

This has nothing to do with what he posted

>>37099170
Is that supposed to be appetizing?

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>>37100166
Get some taste, vegan rat.

>>37096775
You're right about being crushed. I live in a very liberal part of the U.S. and I have to avoid every mentioning it unless I'm out to lunch with someone and they ask.
As a general rule, people hate vegans. I have no idea why but it just triggers people to no end when they offer me pizza or something and the conversation goes like
>want some of my pizza anon
>no thanks
>you know you wanna
>nah
>anon have the fucking pizza haha lol :)
>nah its all good
>why are you allergic to pizza
>nah
>why
>im a vegan
>WOWWWWWWWW WHAT THE FUCK WHERE DO YOU GET YOUR PROTEIN HUR DURR
Funny, it's always the fatties that ask that.

>>37100134
yeah, why save animals lives, even a few, when you can totally not?
my eyes r open

>>37096775
>None of them gets that being vegan
>does not mean you are a
>"commie", "fag" or a "hippie".

Maybe you just don't get it?

>>37097234

terrible arguement

are you saying your brain capacity is that of an animal? why dont you shit in the forest as well? if you are stupid as an animal, do everything they do without question

>>37100179
isn't this fucking raw? And why is the bread the same colour as cheddar cheese?

>>37097763

not the guy youre replying to but i agree, i work at a restaurant that sells charcuterie boards and i feel fucking disgusted at all the people who eat it and are excited about it, especially the fact that we fell foie gras.

my chef tried to make fois gras sound like it wasnt a big deal that ducks dont have gag reflexes, but to me eating a purposely fattened suck liver is like eating actual torture? so bizzare

and every day i get made fun of by the kitchen staff. i dont even try to explain my side of things i just roll my eyes and ignore them

>>37100208
naturally people hate vegans
when you're indirectly informed that every day you're contributing to a literal genocide, you'll either get irrationally defensive or god forbid actually assess your actions
or just suppress the slightest thought

Where would I get my proteins from?

And you need lots of it because the bioavailability of plant based protein is often shit.

>>37096775
What's stopping me? I don't want to become that annoying fag who posts the same bait thread 5x5 daily instead of doing compound lifts 5x5 for strength

>>37100208
so long as you're all prepped with facts then making said fatties look stupid shouldn't be too hard

>>37100274
I get 200g a day from my diet, and I'm on a cut rn
Beans, lentils, spinach, broccolli, soya milk, tofu and meat/cheese substitutes like vegan quorn, linda mccartney, tofurkey etc
I use soya protein powder too but on most days its not even necessary

>>37100315
>meat/cheese substitutes like vegan quorn

Faggot vegans still want to eat meat so they name all their foods 'meat' substitutes.

Jesus.

>>37099925
No, your reading comprehension is terrible.

His argument is:
>Animals kill other animals, and it's okay
>In fact, sometimes they kill them for sport
>We kill animals, we're just more efficient at it
>Why is that bad?

>>37100267
I agree with the thrust of your point (and it's part of why I gave up meat) but it doesn't make you fucks any less frustrating or evangelical.

>>37100375

The guy's argument is still "animals do it, therefore it's fine." Nobody would make that argument for anything but defending meat eating.

>>37099743
>vegans
>having the brain capacity to develop such a virus

Top kek

>>37100179
im not vegan but its pretty disgusting how that fat flows out of the burger

>>37100347
No vegan will deny that meat/cheese tastes good
That's just dishonest
The majority of vegans were raised on recipes that use meat/cheese. In fact, recipes involving meat/cheese have had ample time to develop and be improved on.
Thanks to human ingenuity, we can eat those meals we've long adored and NOT contribute to a literal genocide! WOAH

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>>37100267
Hah I don't even want to judge my non-vegan friends. I've made it very clear to them that I don't care about their choices, it's just my personal decision because surprise, it's NOT ABOUT THE ANIMALS FOR ME
>lactose fucks with my stomach
>eggs make me nauseous, didn't eat them before i was vegan either
>I'm an environmentalist and animal farming murders the planet
>We feed 70% of our crops to animals when we could be fixing world hunger
>Ocean dead zones and listeria outbreaks are gross
>the lakes of shit that they empty into rivers are gross
>Statistically, everyone will either have to eat edible insects or go vegan in 30 years, I'm just helping all the carnivores out by slowing it a bit
>Methane
>My state is in a drought and we give all the water to animals
It's the same as someone wanting to drive a hybrid car rather than a hummer. I mean sure, pigs are cute, but there are better reasons, both for my health and environment/humanitarian.
>>37100274
Basically, you just try to get it from multiple sources. I like a mix of dark greens, nuts, peas, lentils, quinoa, seeds, beans, sun dried tomatoes, avocado, all have good protein that I can add up.

The only other issue being iron and b12, but you can get b12 from probiotic sources (kombucha, nutritional yeast), and iron is in tons of veggies too, like spinach.

For those wondering, it hasn't impeded my fitness level. I can run 10-15ks, steadily improving in other areas. and I get my blood work done occasionally to make sure im not lacking in any vitamins.

For all the militant vegans in this thread, you're the reason everyone hates us. Hope someone learned something from this.

>>37100208
You've just got shit friends or thin skin. I live in the Bay Area, and I know 3 vegans and 3 people that tried to go vegan for a time.

When someone declines something socially acceptable, they're given shit. For example, when I got offered pizza in the middle of my cut, people gave me shit for not eating it. Same if I said "no, I'm vegetarian/vegan". And then you go about your day, and people presumably remember your dietary preferences and don't offer that food again.

Really, it's the internet that blows these things out of proportion. People in real life don't talk much about their vegan-ism/get angry at vegans. It's just on the internet, where real conversations and interaction is scarce, where these kinds of stupid threads exist and fuel the stereotypes of both sides.

>>37100375
His emphasis was on animals that kill for sport. In the vast majority of cases, animals kill other animals to survive
We don't have to kill animals to survive any more.
We've reached the point where humans actually empathize with those at a disadvantage, and survival of the fittest no longer applies to us

Why are we killing animals?

>>37100081
fuck off m8, plants are living things, unless you go full vegan with a diet of pure fruits without seeds, nuts and a shit load of supplements becuz muh moral

>>37100380
You just proved my point
Being forced to confront the consequences of your actions is frustrating

Surprise surprise

>>37098263
there aren't any, the only real argument that can't be disproved is "muh feels", and no man gives a shit about that anyway

>>37100471
Shh you live in the bay area you just said it yourself. But I understand the internet amplifies this stuff.

>>37100477
>Why are we killing animals?
we enjoy their taste, and not all humans empathize with them.
why not kill animals?

>>37100518
Read >>37100453

I don't give a fuck about animals being killed.
I don't want them to be tortured or raised in a cruel way. But I don't give a fuck about killing and eating them.

>>37100492
There are no consequences though. You haven't shown him anything besides how annoying someone can be.

The only possible point you can make there is that the consequences of eating meat is that some dyel faggot while speak about shit you don't give a fuck about until you get irritated by it

>>37100453
'Pigs are cute' is a subjective observation
'Why do we kill pigs/cows and love dogs/cats' is an objective observation
'Why do we kill animals at all when we don't have to?' is an objective observation

Ethical veganism doesn't hinge on personal opinions, its based on objective observations

>>37100492
It's not so much because a legitimate point is being made that incites guilt as it is the fucking incessant preening that comes along with it.

Get over yourself, you pathetic piece of shit. I'll be more impressed when you stop driving your car.

>>37100477
Because we like the taste, and because we can.

>>37100112
>Wow I couldn't give a fuck
sure seems like it

>I'm glad you think that way anon. The research suggests otherwise
there's a bunch that goes both ways, typical of the nutrition field. Remember when dietary cholesterol was evil? Like 3 years ago?

>>37100518
>why not kill animals?
Even though you know you've heard lots of valid answers to this question, here's a good summary:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=W4HJcq8qHAY

>>37100549
I have lots of respect for ethical vegans, but non-vegans don't understand empathy as well as
>environment reasons
>health reasons
Those are both more objective to them.

>>37100223
>admits to thinking humans are above animals
>"a-all life is equally precious, go vegan you m-muderer!"
This shit writes itself. Pro-tip: when arguing with emotional reasoning (I.e. I love animals and that's why I'm vegan --which by the way is the only legit reason to be a vegan and more power to you if you feel that way) if someone doesn't feel those emotions you won't win that argument. Most "carnists" as vegans call us concede that there are potential health problems when consuming animal products. However you must remember that since this is a fitness forum, most people here are actively working to counteract those health problems and accept that they must do so to remain healthy. How is this so hard for vegans to understand? The argument always goes like this:
>Why aren't you vegan? Don't you know you can get nutrients without murder?
>I don't care about livestock animals and I like the taste of meat (this is the emotional argument failing)
>Well don't you know that eating animal products is bad for you?
>Yeah that's why I work out and eat a balanced diet
>HURRDURR CARNISTS ARE SO STUPID THEY HAVE NO GOOD ARGUMENTS
Rinse repeat, every day until mods ban these vegan shitpost bonanzas

>>37100549
>don't have to kill animals

Then where would we get all the meat?

>>37100536
>There are no consequences though
Probably a troll, but here u go anyway:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=W4HJcq8qHAY

>>37100498
"Shh"? Nigga it's as liberal a place as there is in this country. And I know vegans. Therefore, I've seen people react in somewhat similar ways in a similar environment. That's why I said that.

>>37096849
it is an appeal though. You are appealing to the assumption that to kill animals is morally wrong. It can and has been argued for centuries that killing animals is not wrong.

>>37100559
>I'll be more impressed when you stop driving your car
>animal agriculture is cause of 51% of greenhouse gas emissions
>i don't drive a car

try again

>>37099549
>but if you were a disabled guy who's blind, a dog would be great animal to help you
and that is not a pet. that is an animal that a human is using. much like the way we use pigs and cows for meat. they serve a purpose

>>37100599
And I'm saying people in the bay area are nice as fuck about that stuff. I'm in a liberal area, but not nearly that liberal.

>>37100584
True, but even health/environmental reasons are often disputed
Something as simple and logical as 'why kill pigs and love dogs?' is at least harder to refute

>>37096775
The reason is I want to keep my gains. Natty vegans look like shit. If they don't look like shit they are not fully natty. Fact.

>>37100530
>animal feed crops are in no way a nutritionally viable food for humans
>land that supports feed crops does NOT support crops intended for human consumption
>those lakes of shit ensure the plants you eat can fucking grow
>swapping manure for chemical fertilizers is in fact WORSE for the environment than just using fucking manure
>increasing filter feeding shellfish farming and seaweed cropping along coastal regions combined with well regulated fisheries not only protects against oceanic dead zones and cleans coastal waters, but provides us with MORE MEAT!
>methane in manure can be trapped and used as a fuel, and if we stop eating meat those animals aren't going to magically stop producing methane
>small animals produce little to no methane per pound of meat produced.

>>37099743
>and it will happend, it's just a matter of time
no it won't mate. you're a despicable human for even saying that
>>37099844
yes, because they are people. not retarded non-human insignificant entities

>>37100048
>Stop killing animals
no, i enjoy it and make money from it

>>37100626
You realise that's a fallacious argument.

>>37099879
>Shocking, I know
retarded as well. they're not going to convert anyone by being whiny cry babies that care more about emotions and animals than people. that's like telling muslim immigrants to stop raping white women. it's not going to happen

>>37100724
how so? the guy said he'll be more impressed if I stop driving, implying that being a vegan has less impact and/or is easier

>>37100578
again, here's the issue, if I don't give a shit about ANY animal, and I don't empathize with them, what moral obligation do I have to not eat them?

every health argument for veganism rolls like this, "it's better for you, look at this research" the response to which is either contradicting research or research which suggests that diet in X way plus exercise(or even just exercise) has the same effect as veganism.

every environmental argument for veganism is pretty fucking poorly thought out. it's much better to go with eating smaller mammals/birds, filter feeding shellfish, and insects than it is to go vegan.

so, why should I go vegan?

>>37097946
>calling omnivores "necrovores" to take moral the high ground
>implying vegans only eat live plants
Wew lad we're dealing with a master b8er here

>>37100749
see >>37100549
ethical veganism doesn't have to be subjective

>telling muslim immigrants to stop raping white women
Westerners liked to rape people a lot more in the past too. Yet here we are, with the lowest rape rate yet.
People and cultures change over time

>>37099644
>you are the most disgusting pile of crap i've ever talked to on the internet
thanks bro, i take pride in it
>you must be an ugly/fat poor person that never experienced something good in his life
nope, decent face, excellent body. i've experienced many good things, like the touch of a woman and holding a tiny baby in my arms. i've travelled a lot and eaten very many meat dishes from all around the world. i've payed off my uni fees and own my own home all before age 25, so my life is pretty excellent
>i wish you die from a weird disease
highly unlikely, my doctor says i'm the healthiest person she's ever seen
>i just want you to know how i feel
thanks, you've certainly brightened up my day. i hope i've brightened up yours
godspeed anon

>>37098027
>comparing eating meat to pedophilia
That's a new low even for you Jehovah's witness ass fuccbois

>>37100830
>ethical veganism doesn't have to be subjective
but people make it subjective when they whine about animals being in pain. they are the only ones who care. objectively they're little crybabies
>Westerners liked to rape people a lot more in the past too
of course it has, but now muslims are adding to it
>Yet here we are, with the lowest rape rate yet
tell that to sweden
>People and cultures change over time
yes, often to their demise. like the romans, babylonians etc. same thing is happening to us now

>>37100811
humans don't hunt their prey and don't eat it fresh in the instance like real omnivores/carnivores.
you eat frozen/rotting corpses like the hayena you are.

>>37100808
>if I don't give a shit about ANY human, and I don't empathize with them, what moral obligation do I have to not eat them?

See how one can't really respond to this?

>every environmental argument for veganism is pretty fucking poorly thought out. it's much better to go with eating smaller mammals/birds, filter feeding shellfish, and insects than it is to go vegan

Fucking lol citation??

>so, why should I go vegan?

Watch that video I linked you the last time you asked that question

>>37100889
>humans don't hunt their prey and don't eat it fresh in the instance like real omnivores/carnivores
have you ever hunted an animal then skinned it and eaten it right there? it's pretty amazing. don't even have to cook it
>you eat frozen/rotting corpses like the hayena you are
yes, humans freeze things to preserve them. hyenas don't have the capability to do so. another reason why humans are superior

>>37100888
>but people make it subjective when they whine about animals being in pain. they are the only ones who care. objectively they're little crybabies
I don't agree with those vegans. People should be as unbiased and emotionally detached from issues like these as is possible, and that's what I try and encourage
With that said, those vegans are likely making way more of an impact than rational vegans. Wrong reasons, same outcome. Should I complain?

The rest of your post is nonsensical so I didn't bother responding

>>37100836
i don't believe a single word of this.

people who lack compassion toward others are the ones who didn't get compassion.

anyway, fuck off you freak. i feel disgusted just by your preasence on earth.

>>37100924
are you retarded ?

do you have a low IQ ?

>have you ever hunted an animal then skinned it and eaten it right there? it's pretty amazing. don't even have to cook it
no, and neither do 99% of humans, actually i don't have a problem with people who kill their own prey.

>yes, humans freeze things to preserve them. hyenas don't have the capability to do so. another reason why humans are superior

you do realise that both humans and hayenas don't hunt their own prey ? for that it makes you a necrovore, if you don't hunt your own prey you are a necrovore.

>>37096775
>I respect animals more than humans

Then you're literally mentally ill, but considering that you're a vegan I'm not surprised.

>>37096775
how can you respect animals more than humans and still eat slaughtered pieces of animal out of fear because some ass-backwards retarded rednecks in your family who obviously never had any education would think that you are a "commie"? what tha fuck.

>>37100958
>i don't believe a single word of this
too successful for your liking? do i make you feel inferior?
>people who lack compassion toward others are the ones who didn't get compassion
but i do feel compassion. for other humans. non-humans aren't worthy of compassion because they contribute nothing to the world

>>37096775
>respecting animals more than human beings

You're the type to demand death and torture to human beings who hunt animals aren't you

>>37100891
You do realize that by strawmanning that false "I'll change animals to humans" or "I'll equate eating meat to rape" shows that you have a weak argument right? Sure if someone said that they didn't care about people and it was okay to kill them they'd be fucked in the head. But that ISN'T what they said. They said they don't care about animals, whom they SUBJECTIVELY view as a lower life form for various reasons. You can argue those reasons with them, but they're subjective so good luck making progress. Nice job throwing Godwin's law in there earlier when you brought up Hitler btw. You are comparing apples and oranges at best with the first one and apples with like an office chair with the second. It'd be like of I did this

>Stop eating meat
>Stop giving money to charity
>Wow vegans sure are heartless

I'll be the first to admit that people should be more open to a more balanced diet with more plentiful vegan/vegetarian options (I'm a "carnist" btw) but please don't argue like such a fucking twat

>>37096775
>I respect animals more than humans
then go live with them and leave us alone you faggot. we don't respect you or your views either

>>37097890
>kill cancer

You mean have a lack of growth in cells and therefor having a lower chance of having one go rogue and start growing into what it is supposed to grow into in a place it doesn't belong?

>>37101010
You keep throwing that word around like it has a huge impact but I again implore you to remember that most vegans are "necrovores" too since they are eating dead plants

>>37100687
>Soy, grains, corn, other cows, are you fucking stupid?
>yes they can be used for other crops.
>Land for cows destroys forests and takes up thousands of gallons of water per cow
>Manure, yes, lakes of pig shit, urine and listeria that are vented into rivers, and kill fish, no.
>It's a fact that listeria on the east cosat of the U.S. and bycatch from fisherman destroy ecosystems.
>methane COULD be trapped but it's NOT and cows produce more CO2 than cars
stop making up your facts desu

>>37101174
/thread

>>37101209
>a harvested fruit/veggie isn't a corpse
fuck off necrovore.

>>37099990
>Whats stopping you from going as vegan as you can?
I am as vegan as I can.
I eat vegetarian meals with added meat.

>>37101247
Nobody said anything about a corpse retard, necro LITERALLY means dead/death

>>37101247
stop posting bro, you're embarrassing yourself. your argument is falling down around you and all you can do is call people something that doesn't exist
>necrovore
>implying that people eat decaying bodies
>implying that we don't freeze our meat to stop it from decaying
you're an idiot

>>37101114
>do i make you feel inferior?
you make a warm crap feels superior brah, because it knows that there is something more disgusting than it ;)

>but i do feel compassion. for other humans.
wow, pretty fucking amazing you can do a basic human function !

>>37096840
vegan food is as well. Ever tried a well-made Oumph burger?

>>37100891
>See how one can't really respond to this?
the point behind that is to drop the goddamn appeal to morality. it doesn't work and it makes vegans/vegetarians look like assholes when the freak out because someone doesn't share the exact same moral compass that they do.

>Fucking lol citation??
here's the argument:"everyone should switch over to a plant based diet due to the fact that farmed plants are better for the environment than farming animals." which is kind of, but not quite true.
1.) the vast majority of crops grown in the US are animal feed crops(alfalfa, feed corn, etc.), which grow well in soil which is poorly suited to growing other crops. feed crops are not nutritionally viable for humans. they're pretty fucking worthless unless you've got a digestive system set up specifically for eating grass. that soil can't support other crops without being fertilized.
2.)organic VS. chemical fertilizers. most crops in the US rely on the animal farming industry for organic fertilizer(most is at least part manure). manure is great for crops AND for soil health. chemical fertilizers are good for crops but wreck soil health, and are just as bad, if not worse for the environment than manure, so you aren't getting a solid return on that damage you're doing. additionally, chemical fertilizers require repeat treatments to crops, which increase the damage they can do. here's some further reading for you:
>http://news.berkeley.edu/2012/04/02/fertilizer-use-responsible-for-increase-in-nitrous-oxide-in-atmosphere/
>http://citeseerx.ist.psu.edu/viewdoc/download?doi=10.1.1.686.1508&rep=rep1&type=pdf
>http://www.scientificamerican.com/article/how-fertilizers-harm-earth/

you don't need a fucking study bruh, you just need to be fucking aware of where ALL of your goddamn food comes from. but I'll continue my "veganism isn't nearly as good for the environment as you think it is" rant here shortly.

>>37101329
>not the guy you're replying to

You do realize your argument is
>feel the emotion I feel! You're awful for not feeling the same thing I do!
Right?
And being the ever so superior vegan you do realize this is the logic of a child right? Emotional reasons are the only legitimate reason to be vegan, but you can't tell someone their wrong when they don't agree with them

>>37101329
>you make a warm crap feel superior brah, because it knows that there is something more disgusting than it
i take warm craps that are superior to you. they can formulate a better argument too, without having to resort to petty insults
>wow, pretty fucking amazing you can do a basic human function
i can kill animals and eat their flesh, that's a basic human function too

>>37100081
>Sentient: able to perceive or feel things.

It's been shown that plants can perceive things despite having no nervous system. Even many fungi and protist are sentient by the definition. What does that leave you to eat?

>>37101282
corpse is literally a dead animal
>>37101294
>>implying that people eat decaying bodies

necrovore isn't about wether the corse has rotten or not, it's about killing your own prey or eating already dead corpses .

you are a necrovore because you don't hunt your own prey. either the thing who killed your prey left it in ice or not, you have no dignity eating it like the disgusting hayena you are.

real carnivores like some eagles prefer to starve to death than eating already dead corpses.

>>37101174

>Sure if someone said that they didn't care about people and it was okay to kill them they'd be fucked in the head.

Why?

>>37101348
>vegan food is as well
no, by and large it's not. i've eaten bland and tasteless vegan alternatives before just to try them, and to me it's like eating cardboard
>Ever tried a well-made Oumph burger
no i would rather have a well made burger with a mince patty, a fried egg, some oozing cheese, and some crispy bacon

>>37101457
>necrovore isn't about wether the corse has rotten or not
but it is. people are hijacking your made up word and applying it to the real world where necro is used to describe something that's been dead for a long time and has started to decay
>you are a necrovore because you don't hunt your own prey
no, i'm a carnivore because i eat meat. whether i killed it myself doesn't matter. if i haven't killed my own food it just means i'm not a hunter or that i don't work in a slaughterhouse. stop trying to use made up words for things that already have clearly defined definitions

>>37101247
>see you spamming this word
>can figure out the gist of it from the roots, but want to see the actual definition
>after I Google it, it only exists on vegan circlejerk sites

Why am I not surprised that it's just a made up buzzword?

>>37101405
like i said, i wish you die of a pretty rare disease pal. and i wish you remember me while breathing your last breath to your disgusting lungs ;)

>>37101114
>non-humans aren't worthy of compassion because they contribute nothing to the world

and humans have contributed what exactly?

File: image.png (98KB, 600x500px) Image search: [Google]

98KB, 600x500px

>>37096775
>I respect animals more than humans

>>37101545
>like i said, i wish you die of a pretty rare disease pal
that's possible, so be it
>and i wish you remember me while breathing your last breath to your disgusting lungs
my lungs are perfectly healthy and fully functioning. and i only remember things worth remembering. whiny little crybabies aren't worth remembering

>>37101534
necrovore is the fittest word to describe animals who eat corpses of other prey that have been already killed, like hayenas, humans etc ...

>>37101539
it's an efficient word that causes loud carnist butthurt ;)

>>37096840
all the delicious vegan food in the world combined does not stand a chance against just one of those burgers

>>37101559
>and humans have contributed what exactly
are you retarded? do you live in a cave?
modern medicine that not only help humans, but animals as well. that cancer treatment that you give to your dog to save it? that was discovered and developed by a human. putting a man on the moon, space exploration. discoveries in physics and chemistry. the discussion of philosophical issues, such as the ethics of meat consumption with morons like you. humans have achieved so much more than any non-human ever could. because our brains are more powerful. we can question everything and have infinite potential for discovery. we are superior in every way

>>37101610
>necrovore is the fittest word to describe animals who eat corpses of other prey that have been already killed, like hayenas, humans etc
no, carnivore is and always has been
>it's an efficient word that causes loud carnist butthurt
no it's a buzzword that is only used in a very small, insignificant cult. carnivore is an efficient word that causes loud vegan butthurt

>>37101174
>whom they SUBJECTIVELY view as a lower life form for various reasons
But that's exactly my point
You can't view killing humans as objectively wrong and view killing animals as subjectively wrong. It's both or neither.
I invite whoever thinks animals are less worthy of life to explain their reasoning - lower intelligence, lack of communication skills? All easily refutable justifications for what is, as you put it, fucked in the head
I am arguing from an objective AND ethical standpoint.

>Nice job throwing Godwin's law in there earlier when you brought up Hitler btw.

No idea what you're talking about. That was probably a different anon

>I'll be the first to admit that people should be more open to a more balanced diet with more plentiful vegan/vegetarian options

You're arguing for veganism (or 'vegan foods') from a health standpoint then. Good for you, not what we're discussing rn tho

just grow up and stop eating things for taste senpai go vegan

>>37101571
>"people" like this freak exist

disgusting.

>>37101278
What's stopping you from cutting out dairy and egg?
No tearjerkers pls

Meat just tastes better. Maillard reaction, more natural glutamates (MSG) in meat, more palatable. There is literally no equivalent to a delicious steak or a good piece of cheese. Literally, Vegan food generally has less glutamates in it and therefore tastes not as good. The only foods that come close, in terms of glutamate levels, are tomatoes, mushroom, and soy sauce.

>>37101694
carnivores kills then eaths their own prey
necrovores (like humans) don't kill their own prey, they eat the meat of an already dead corpse.

so yeah, necrovore it is brah ;)

>>37101701
>You can't view killing humans as objectively wrong and view killing animals as subjectively wrong. It's both or neither
killing humans is objectively wrong. killing animals is objectively not wrong
>I invite whoever thinks animals are less worthy of life to explain their reasoning
animals are useless except when used to aid humans. such as seeing eye or sniffer dogs and racing horses. other than that every animal serves literally no purpose. there is no point to it existing. it has no potential to do anything of significance. the only way an animal can advance its own species is by surviving and passing on it's genetic code. whereas humans are capable of literally anything. we have near infinite potential. every human, unless they are severely disabled, has the capacity to improve countless lives

>>37101756
no, carnivores eat meat regardless of how they obtain it. that is the nature of being a carnivore. a necrovore is something that would eat decaying flesh. like bacteria. you have no argument. i'm amazed that someone can be as stupid as you

>>37101371
>drop the goddamn appeal to morality
I've explained this ad nauseum - you can be an ethical vegan AND argue from an objective standpoint. A lot of vegans don't do that but it is possible

Your earlier post read 'every environmental argument for veganism is poorly thought out'
You provided two links to support the argument that soil for growing animal-fed crops aren't suited to grow human-fed crops and that animal manure is better for crops
And this is 'every environmental argument' debunked, is it?

I'll still read those links tho. Being an ethical vegan I'm not THAT well informed on the environmental side

>>37101214
>alfalfa, FEED corn, grass, very little soy
are you seriously so far removed from your food that you don't know feed crops grow in extraordinarily poor quality soil?

>Land for cows destroys forests and takes up thousands of gallons of water per cow

land for fruits and veggies does too brah, bananas and cows are what's killing the amazon right now.

>kes of pig shit, urine and listeria that are vented into rivers, and kill fish, no.
this is illegal to do intentionally, and BTW chemical fertilizers and pesticides are full bore knowingly leaked into lakes and rivers and kill off massive amounts of wildlife and cause algal blooms in addition to killing the soil they're put on.

>It's a fact that listeria on the east cosat of the U.S. and bycatch from fisherman destroy ecosystems

and what do filter feeders do? clean the damn water and kill the damn listeria. bycatch doesn't destroy ecosystems you dumb shit, bycatch is accidental catch while(more often than not) netting for fish. methods are being devised left and right to reduce bycatch because tossing unused fish over the side is a waste of time.

>methane COULD be trapped but it's NOT and cows produce more CO2 than cars

methane IS trapped you dipshit. is it employed by everyone? no, does that mean people don't do it? no. also, cows are major producers of methane, not CO2. also, cows only produce about 1.54 billion tons of methane per year(in america), whereas car average out to about 720 billion tons of CO2(again, in america) and that's only if around a third of the cars in the US are being driven.

jesus christ you just swallow everything PETA says without asking any questions don't you?

>>37101412
citation pls

>>37101756
>carnivores kills then eaths their own prey
hunters kill their own prey. they don't necessarily eat it. a carnivore eats meat. a carnivorous hunter eats its own prey

>>37101663
>modern medicine helps humans and pets
>vegans argue we should treat farm animals like we do our pets

You said humans contribute to the world.
>putting a man on the moon, space exploration. discoveries in physics and chemistry. the discussion of philosophical issues
In other words, humans have contributed to humans.
They've royally fucked the world up

ITT: vegans getting rekt
what an entertaining read. i'm giving this one to the meat eaters. better luck next time vegans

>>37100837
not that poster and not vegan but that is actually i valid point; an act can not be morally justified be saying it appeals to your preferences as. If your possition is "everything is fine because who cares" then to be consistent pedophiling a kid would also be ok

>>37101905
>vegans argue we should treat farm animals like we do our pets
we do. we feed them, make sure they're taken care of when they're sick, give them a safe and happy environment to grow in. the difference is most people don't eat their pets because they're somehow averse to eating them. cat is actually quite tasty
>In other words, humans have contributed to humans.
>They've royally fucked the world up
humans are the world. when will you realize this? nothing else matters

>>37101792
This really sounds like bait, but whatever

>animals are useless except when used to aid humans

And humans are useful how?

>every animal serves literally no purpose. there is no point to it existing

And humans serve a purpose? Humans exist for a reason?

>it has no potential to do anything of significance

Humans have this?

>the only way an animal can advance its own species is by surviving and passing on it's genetic code

You see where I'm going with this

>humans are capable of literally anything

kay

>we have near infinite potential

kay

>has the capacity to improve countless lives

how about animal lives?

>>37098866
I want to rape your children because i don't care about children well being. Sex with children is nice and that's all that matters

>>37101825
bacteria aren't animals.
animals who eat other dead corpses are necrovores like hayenas and humans.

>>37101907
you mean fatties and meat addicts getting defensive about their addiction.

i'm having so much fun too, looking down to you necrovore plebs.

>>37101907
vegans officially are winning 2-0 so far in the debates m8

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=586jSyXfOVM

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=OCcJq56ZMJg

>>37101956
>we do. we feed them, make sure they're taken care of when they're sick, give them a safe and happy environment to grow in
And then you kill and eat them.
All the raising and loving stuff kinda makes it even worse then doesn't it? Like something a serial killer would do
(There's a vegan sidekick comic for this stupid argument but I can't find it)

>humans are the world. when will you realize this? nothing else matters
aaaaand thanks for participating

>>37101866
First off, Venus fly traps and pitcher plants reactions and vine's seeking anchors to bind to are the most visible examples of perceiving despite no nervous system. Then you have the standard plant capabilities of facing the sun even when moved, closing or opening flowers at night, only seeding or sprouting when certain conditions have been met, etc.

Here's one example of plants responding to stimuli ("feeling"), though it's not the one I had seen so there's clearly multiple studies into the topic.

https://vimeo.com/99635253

>>37101852
>And this is 'every environmental argument' debunked, is it?

na dude, I said I'd continue, I just got distracted. oh and I forgot to add that chemical fertilizers/pesticides are just as damaging to individual watersheds as farming livestock.

3.)muh water. this is pretty much just an argument where water purification is an issue, in which case, the people living in those areas probably can't grow shit anyway. but it is a solid reason to swap from livestock to crops. wheat at least.

4.)the rainforest. there are crops that are doing just as much damage to the rainforest as the beef industry does.
http://business-ethics.com/2010/06/19/2440-banana-industrys-impact-on-rainforests/
http://worldinfo.org/2012/01/food-for-thought-soybean-endangers-brazil-amazon-rainforest/

5.)muh greenhouse gasses. yes, livestock do produce a pretty sizeable amount of greenhouse gasses, but that's more or less remedied by swapping to smaller livestock, filter feeding shellfish, and insects. additionally, when you farm filter feeders, you can grow algae on top of the clams(or mussels... or oysters. i don't know your preference in mollusk. get off my back) which absorbs greenhouse gasses. neat huh?

6.)muh ocean. this is a reason to reduce how much fish and of what species of fish we eat, not a reason to cut the meat. especially with easily sustainable fisheries like skipjack, mullet, oyster, shrimp, scallop, and sardine.

that's probably all I'm gonna do, I've gotta start fixing my dinner.

>>37102108

http://scienceline.org/2010/03/how-does-a-venus-flytrap-work/

You're making it out like a venus flytrap feels a fly land inside it and thinks "I'm hungry, I'm going to eat this fly. Yum yum." It's a mechanical action. Like arguing a catapult is sentient because when you cut its rope, it hurls a boulder through the air.