I've always wondered this /fa/... Why do 8+/10 men without

i mean objectively an 8/10 is an 8/10, makeup is a way of moving up the ranks. e.g. if 10 was maximal human attractiveness, then makeup could make a 5 or a 6 into a 7 to 8 range. So when you say 8+ without makeup, you're comparing to 5s or 6s.

the stranger thing would be giving 10's makeup, which would make them 13's or 14's, above the realm of natural possibility. but base attractiveness (without makeup) should be standard, and perhaps 8+/10 women without makeup are just 5s or 6s

>>12688465
So would you say Karlie Kloss is not (for this matter) a 9/10?

What would a 9/10 woman even look like?

And would you say it's true that many of the more attractive women you've seen are not the supermodels that are hyped in the fashion industry?

I feel like I'm seeing more attractive women in my everyday commutes and daily life.

Not only that, but I'm constantly reminded that even these women have makeup on, as opposed to the majority of men who I consider highly attractive and I assume do not have makeup.

>>12688477

perhaps makeup has skewed it such that a 10/10 is automatically considered to have makeup on, because we see so many every day (and we compare each girl to the ones we see). thus even a 10/10 would become an 8/10 or something without makeup, and our expectations of finding a 10/10 without makeup are just simply impossible

for example searching up emma watson without makeup gives you some ugly ass photos. i didnt even think that was possible lol

>>12688477
Mmm could it be that we are used to seeing women with rosy cheeks and lips, thicker eyelashes so it's not that attractive when we see them without this? When they look a bit paler,sparser eyelashes, lighter eyebrows its not what we expect so it's a bit off? And men we are used to seeing them make up free so we expect less lashes, we don't expect their faces to be flushed and all that.

>>12688485
in addition the attractive direction of men is innately non-makeup oriented. men with scars are badass, a rough skin just means he do that outdoor shit. vs women, if a woman had a scar and rough, cracked hands it would be not considered "normally" attractive

>>12688487
>>12688485
>>12688484
OK I'm kinda seeing where you're both coming from.

Like, it's an automatic association that our brains make with the concept of beauty.

As in, a woman with makeup is inherently not attractive because she's missing the key features that we would expect in an attractive woman.
I.e. full lively looking lips, strong defined lashes, flawless skin.

However, would you say that male features are just more attractive?

E.g. the god-tier cheekbones that we observe on male models is natural instead of the makeup contouring that female models undergo.

One of the biggest differences I find is the eye makeup. Why do men naturally have more lively eyes than women?

Do men have naturally longer lashes than women?

>>12688453
Am I the only one who thinks she's hotter without makeup

>>12688493
here's a theory. it's easy for a girl to get to 9-10 level through makeup, we all see those videos where there's a crazy transition

now, if you're hiring for the acting industry, it could be hard to differentiate between actual base value 9-10's with 6-7's plus makeup, because both parties are pushing up against the boundaries of possible physical attractiveness -- there comes a point where i don't think you could get any prettier. thus, hiring in the model industry, female side, would have more "drastic" transformations -- very very pretty to meh. versus the male industry where most men don't wear makeup, it would be mostly comprised of 9-10's base value while women's would be a spectrum from 6-10.

>>12688493
I think male models do get contoured though. But I see what you mean. I've asked myself the same question. But honestly I think women and men look the same with out make up except girls have hair and different bodies and maybe thinner faces. But I look at my girl friends that never wear make up and guy friends and they seem to be the same level of attractive to me. But when I see a girl who always wears make up and I think of as pretty, suddenly without make up i don't think of them as pretty. Which made me stop wearing make up as often so friends can be used to seeing me bare face and not think anything of it.

>>12688484
if you think emma watson isn't a cute without makeup, your standards are stupid high

>>12688505
>>12688527
Alright cheers. Thanks for providing more perspective.

>>12688495
Idk I think she's really attractive in natural lighting (street style pics etc) instead of those event pics with more yellowish lighting. Her "bronzed" look is pretty weird imo.

>>12688453
Is that not a tranny?

>>12688552
some aren't. most are.

Female here. Some women like Demi Lovatto look fucking great without makeup. Others look like a jackle. I do wish my lashes were as thick as a mans. Then I think I wouldn't look too bad without makeup.

I think that just because so many women wear makeup our standards for women automatically are higher than men. For example a man can have ungroomed eyebrows and skin imperfections (especially if he has facial hair to hide it) and these can contribute to a "rugged" look, however that style option doesn't really work on women (acne scars or pockmarks look especially bad). Even when people think that women look better "natural" the woman that comes to mind still probably has to pluck or shape her brows, take care of her hair and unless she has perfect genetics would need a good skincare routine

>>12688453
This number system is retarded.

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Alicia Keys is the only celebrity that i know of that regularly doesn't wear makeup.

Female and male beauty are different things.

Men are not expected to walk around being aroused and presenting for sex all the time, right? I mean they might be down to fuck but they don't have their erections out.
But females are making themselves look like they are ready to fuck. Red, plump lips. Blush. High-heels making their butt stick out. Women are manipulating part of your brain telling you they want to fuck you then and there.
The other thing with female beauty is they are enhancing neoteny. That is preservation of child-like characteristics in adulthood. eg. Big, expressive-looking eyes.
Men don't have to have doe eyes they are expected to have predator eyes and full, developed jawlines and so on. They're expected to be mature more than youthful.

>>12688649
>t. 0,5/10

>>12688465
Makeup makes 5s look like 7s, 7s look like 8s, 9s look like 8s and 10s look like 8s. You can't imrove a 10, it's the maximum.

>>12688691
He's correct though. That kind of score is only useful if it's based on a systemised algorithm but the algorithm would be far too complex to use on a daily basis so the score just ranges from "I like" to "I hate" with two scores not being comparable because of different circumstances influencing the measurement for lack of systemisation. They're useless, meaningless numbers.

>>12688477
Karlie is a 7 at best.

>>12688552
You only say that because she's famous.

>>12688797
Men tend to give very similar scores to women, though. If they were completely wacky I don't think that would be true.

>>12688453
because you're used to seeing women with makeup

>>12688690
lmao how autistic can one be
If a girl is wearing red lipstick, it doesn't mean she is ready to take you right then and there. The fuck is wrong with you

>>12688674

She looks like she has morning breath 24/7

>>12688674

met her a while back and she wasn't wearing makeup

this sort of publication photo makes her look much more attractive than she is

i mean, she's a nice person, but she's not very attractive regardless of makeup

post more karlie pls

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>>12689671
More giraffe for you.

>wtc 6'0+ thin gf

>>12688814
*4

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>>12690196
Thanks! Tall skinny girls are best girls.

Logically, attractiveness ratings should follow the bell curve, with the most average (common) person being a 5 and less towards the extremes.

It'd be interesting to see the mix towards higher and lower (m vs f).

But if you separate the spectrum, without makeup the female attractiveness scale should just shift left. So makeup has essentially devalued women as 10's without makeup have no become 6's due to the creation of 13's and 14's as another poster said.

But no homos I agree that more guys are attractive compared to girls without makeup. A lot of them damage their skin. Imagine if we end up becoming the fairer sex and getting shit for free lol

Worth discussing 'perceived' or subjective attractiveness vs objective constants.

Makeup creates a widening of the perceived scale (greater distance between 1 and a 10).

I think our expectations in turn play into our own attempts at objective measurement, as we have a weird comparison point, but are also likely to devalue a woman's rating because we assume she will look much worse without makeup

Women don't look worse than men without makeup, they look exactly LIKE men (or better, since they're more into skincare and sun protection), because that's how human beings naturally are. It's just that beauty standards are totally different, neoteny is much more valued in women, and looks are more important for them in general. They try harder to enhance their appearance, often by artificial means, and now people have inflated expectations of beauty in women.

>>12688465
Wrong. An absolute 10 is make-up free. Any make-up diminishes a 10.

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>>12688453
>Am I homosexual

Yes.

>>12690258
WHEN WILL THEY LEARN

>>12690196
Why do girls pretend to like Star Wars?

Some people are naturally beautiful.

Most likely a 9/10 will most likely be a 9/10 at all hours, but a 6/10 can bump to a 7-8 with make-up

>>12688690
Fuck off back to r/incels you autistic fuckhead.

>>12690552
>>no woman in all the world has ever willingly watched or enjoyed a Star Wars film

ok

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>>12688453
you wouldn't know a 10/10 woman if she even punched you in the face homo boy

>>12688453
This bitch has no upper lip lmao

I wonder why she can't get lip filler or whatever on her upper lip to actually make it exist. It looks so weird and not in a good way