hey kids i want to make a Zilog Z80 CPU clone out of discreet

>>992053
sorry dad

>>992053
If you need a diagram you won't be able to build it.

>>992074
relevant

>>992074
i know how many transistor it has, this is for a long term personal project.

5600 is doable over the course of 5 years, thats why i picked that one over more complex CPUs

>>992089
8500*

>>992089
You will also need all of the resistors and capacitors, and troubleshooting won't be easy, at all
And one fuckhuge PSU to give out something like 500-1000W at least
But by all means try and make it, at worst you'll end up with a -lot- of soldering experience and enough components to make pretty much anything from scratch
Sorry I can't help any more than this

Also I'm pretty sure there's something like copyright and laws against doing this or giving out diagrams or templates
I hope not, report back if you have any luck

>>992102
>You will also need all of the resistors and capacitors
expected
> and troubleshooting won't be easy, at all
actually i'll make things like pic related, put leds on every logical gate to see it working.
also use many separated boards.
>>992103
dunno man.

File: 8bit_add_sub.jpg (137KB, 995x548px) Image search: [Google]

137KB, 995x548px

>>992112
forgot the pic

>>992053
Opencores have VHDL/Verilog implementations.

>>992053
Why not vacuum tubes?

>>992112
Why don't you start with something more usual?
Would this be your very first project?
If yes you're going to die

I think it'd be foolish to embark on a project like this without a solid understanding of how it works.

File: 4004-lajos-schematics.gif (362KB, 4020x3250px) Image search: [Google]

362KB, 4020x3250px

Troll thread and all, but at least 4004 and 6502 transistor level schematics are available.

>>992263
Oh look OP a link to everything you need to make a Z80:
http://opencores.org/project,a-z80

won't parasitics kill any chance of running this at full clockspeed?

>>992270
they're ridiculously expensive and require way more power to work.

>>992335
yes, its not really about plastic, its more about the size of the damn thing.
basically running at 1mhz would be pushing it.

>>992053
Are you sure you just have to copy the diagram? Zilog Z80 uses MOS transistors and your discreet ones are BJT (not the same specs).

I'm also working on my own processor with discreet transistors, will create a thread this summer.

>>992069
/thread

>>992335
Parasitics?
This thing is going to be hindered by the time it takes electrons from one side to the other without considering parasitics

>>992395
You understand you can get MOS in discrete packages, right?

OP, why don't you build something around a 4004 processor instead? I've wanted to do this for awhile now, I have a beautiful old zebra stripe gold 4004 that I want to showcase, but I wanna use as much old gold ceramic components as possible to make something really dumb with lots of blinkenlights.

>>992074
Wait...RCA made a CPU?

>>992522
the 4004 is pretty much low end calculator.
not that there is anything wrong with that.
but you won't be able to plug it to your monitor and start coding things.

File: 1802.jpg (1MB, 1600x1227px) Image search: [Google]

1MB, 1600x1227px

>>992541
Pretty much all major semiconductor makers made processors at one time and RCA's 1802 wasn't even the most obscure of them. It is one of the few processors which are available as radiation hardened, space certified variants. RH variant is still in production.

>>992370
>>992404
Uh... The original Z80 ran at 2.5MHz, not 2.5GHz. Your house will be a bigger limitation for size.

>>992624
>The original Z80 ran at 2.5MHz, not 2.5GHz
thanks, i already know that.
i don't intend to build a cpu out of discrete transistors to play Crysis
> Your house will be a bigger limitation for size.
not really, the Z80 has 8500 transistors.
if i could the circuit board and other discrete parts (resistors, capacitors, etc) it would take roughly the size of a wardrobe

File: carrier.jpg (375KB, 1024x678px) Image search: [Google]

375KB, 1024x678px

Hey kids, I want to make a Nimitz class aircraft carrier clone out of raw steel, but I can't any diagram, can anyone help pls?

>>992632
>it would take roughly the size of a wardrobe
Uh huh. So what makes you think that the signal speed in wires themselves will be a significant problem?

>>992637
>So what makes you think that the signal speed in wires themselves will be a significant problem?
i never said it would, at those speed and voltage i won't be a problem.

>>992642
I was replying to >>992404 who claimed exactly that and to the other guy who vaguely said that the "size" would set a limit on speed.

>>992632
> other discrete parts (resistors, capacitors, etc)
CMOS doesn't use resistors when fabricated as an IC, but if you're using discretes, you'll be able to replace some of the FETs with resistors to reduce costs.

TTL/ECL needs resistors. None of them need capacitors as part of the circuit proper, although a circuit built from discretes may need some decoupling caps.

You might have trouble with speed if you use CMOS with discretes. Not so sure about TTL, but ECL won't have a problem (although power consumption will be a lot higher; on the plus side, you won't need any decoupling caps).

>>992610
Yup, I get that, but you could still make something awesome with it.

>>992053
>hey kids i want to make a Zilog Z80 CPU clone out of discreet transistors but i can't find any diagram.
>can anyone help me pls ?
I would argue that you don't need the schematic diagram; all you need to do is duplicate the logic states. THe end result should show essentially the same topography.

there's people who have built copies of old processors out of 74XX and 4XXX logic chips. good luck with single transistors tho

File: image-455937-galleryV9-grye.jpg (97KB, 850x564px) Image search: [Google]

97KB, 850x564px

>>992635
Well we know the F-313 can be homebuilt, I recommend that for your fighters

There seems to be a book

>>992395
Yeah BJTs aren't the only type of discrete transistor available. BTW, it's "discrete", not "discreet".

>>993851
http://www.modmypi.com/blog/build-your-own-z80-computer-by-steve-ciarcia-1981

>>993888
thats not it, this shows how to build a computer around the Z80, not how to build a Z80

but thank you

>>992074

at that point just design your own

>>992053
>make a Zilog Z80 CPU clone out of discreet transistors
Transistor count of the Zilog Z80 : 8500

Have fun !

>>992541
3 phases of any product :
- growth phase
- consolidation phase
- monopoly

The growth phase is when everyone and their brother jumps in and tries to make a buck.

>>992635
Chinese farmers were making aircraft carriers in their back yards in the 50s.

>>993966
thanks captain obvious

>>992053
I don't know any, but you could look at an FPGA "program" clone if there's any and maybe get some idea from the source code. You could also try to make your own Z80 compatible CPU. Implement the same instruction set, or even harder version: do it with mostly the same timing.
You can also fuck around with the 6502 instead, you will probably find everything for it considering that this exists:
http://www.visual6502.org/

>>992053
bump

File: monster6502.jpg (817KB, 2048x1357px) Image search: [Google]

817KB, 2048x1357px

I assume you recently saw this: http://monster6502.com/

They started from a transistor level netlist made by visual6502.org but Visual6502 hasn't made one of those for the Z80 yet (though according to their wiki they do have the die photographs already so this is probably a thing you could volunteer and help out with).

Clock speed is so limited in these macroscopic recreations of processors because of the use of resistors as pullups instead of making CMOS gates (which would require twice as many transistors) or using the depletion-mode NMOS pullup transistors that the real ICs used. I don't think you can get single depletion mode MOSFETs in discrete packages. Anyway, you'll probably need to read some books on semiconductor physics and take a serious crash course in soldering, PCB layout and debugging digital electronics in order to get this to work.

Plus, the transistors alone will end up costing you $5.000. Good luck though, and if this ever comes to anything please post here again and share it with us.

File: 7x5_JD_Turk_give_thumbs_up.jpg (75KB, 695x509px) Image search: [Google]

75KB, 695x509px

>>996361
>and if this ever comes to anything please post here again and share it with us.

i will

>>996361
>I don't think you can get single depletion mode MOSFETs in discrete packages
You can, for example BSS139 and LND150.
Alternatives include (some) dual gate mosfets and j-fets if you aren't too anal about the details.

god bump

File: 40-38.jpg (81KB, 728x728px) Image search: [Google]

81KB, 728x728px

http://megaprocessor.com/index.html

>>996361
that looks epic desu

OP you absolute madman

File: 1342780888144.jpg (243KB, 604x527px) Image search: [Google]

243KB, 604x527px

>>998951