I want to start doing some pretty involved shit with my house's

>>1228306
Go to the local library, used books store, or thrift store and borrow/buy a book about DIY electrical. The basics have not changed in 60 years, so don't worry too much about its age. You can probably find the electrical code for your area online. Supplement the book with that. YouTube is also a great source of info on this kind of stuff.

>>1228306
>involved
how involved

if you screw up and somehow cause an electrical fire, your insurance company won't cover squat

>>1228317

Yeah luckily there are a shitload of libraries in my area that all are part of a sharing system. I've started researching some books and might have them do an inter-library loan on ones that my local branch doesn't have.

>>1228362

This house is old and thus has weird shit going on with it. Like the bathrooms don't have electrical outlets, for one. So I'm gonna add an outlet to each bathroom, put in GFCI outlets where code requires, and eventually replace all the 2-prong outlets with proper grounded 3-prong ones. The last bit is the one I'm most concerned about because it might require running new wire and terminating the old one. There's more but these are just some examples.

I plan on doing everything carefully, by the book (literally by the NEC book), following city code in terms of inspections and permits. I am overly cautious in general so I will not do anything with the potential to burn my house down without being extremely sure I'm doing it right. That's why I'm interested in going beyond Youtube videos and so forth to actually get a complete understanding of residential electrical systems.

>>1228437
>I plan on doing everything carefully, by the book (literally by the NEC book), following city code in terms of inspections and permits. I am overly cautious in general so I will not do anything with the potential to burn my house down without being extremely sure I'm doing it right. That's why I'm interested in going beyond Youtube videos and so forth to actually get a complete understanding of residential electrical systems.
well that's good to hear

simply adding outlets or replacing wires isn't that big of a deal provided one can follow basic steps

you can look into local classes, but they might want you to buy books, and they can be ridiculously expensive

if you're looking for the basics, the home depot book isn't a bad place to start...if you do want to watch some videos, this old house on YT has ones covering various types of repairs

>>1228306
No just read nfpa 70. Then shadow a journeyman if there's even such a thing in your state.

All the books in the world won't teach you how to look for what's important.

>>1228362
I keep hearing this, but no one ever cites any sources. I've also heard that if it's inspected and passes, you're covered, this also with no sources. Sure would be nice to hear from a real insurance adjuster, with tits and timestamp instead of "I know her, she goes to my school."

>>1228484
This. When I was learning this stuff I think I used the Black and Decker electrical book? But the Depot one is good as well. Figure on taking a few months to get up to speed if you're just reading. None of it is hard, it's all very logical, and most of it takes some practice.

>>1228487
>I keep hearing this, but no one ever cites any sources
if you want to hear it from the horse's mouth, call your insurance company and see what they say

>>1228500
I'm not the one making the claims, gentle Anon, therefore I do not bear the burden of proof. Nice dubs though.

>>1228504
I didn't mean anything personal, but that is the one for sure source of accurate info

>>1228508
It's cool Anon, no problems here. It's pushing midnight here, but I Googled it for shits and giggles. So far (a perusal of the first page of hits) it seems that homeowners actually will cover very nearly ANY electrical fire, regardless of who did the work or if it was inspected. They'll try to pass the cost on to whomever did the work, but they pay the homeowner, and if the homeowner did the work the insurance company is screwed. Now, after they pay you they cancel your policy, or raise the premiums so high it's not worth it, but they do pay out regardless of the cause of the fire. And there are ZERO first hand accounts of ANYONE who's had a claim denied for doing their own electrical work and then having a fire. It's sounding more and more like an urban myth to me.

>>1228487
>>1228531

That's interesting. I always assumed anything not done with a paper trail or whatever the insurance company would refuse to cover. (I think that's the burden level of home warranty companies at least.) I'm actually going to sit and read my fucking tome of a policy and see what they say about damage stemming from repairs. If it doesn't say anything I'll get a statement from the insurance company.

Ask at electrical supply stores. If you need an inspection in many areas a licensed electrician does it They usually work side jobs too.

I wouldn't ask an insurance company, I'd just get with the electrician who will be signing off the work. All the insurance co knows is he blessed it.

I had a tree take out my weatherhead and meter box. I replaced the weatherhead and meter box, pulled new wires, left the cover off and had a local electrician come inspect and bless it. Power co needed him to do that so they would reconnect.

Saved me a good bit of money in labor and he found no fault with my work (nor should he, I used to do industrial maintenance and helped sparkies with their stuff).

I went to the local electrical supply store and I bought what I needed per the sample parts I'd removed.

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OP again. One of the projects I'm considering is redoing the way at least some of the branch circuits are set up. Am I right that the only proper way to do this is to tear open drywall, even if I do the initial drop through the attic? I have found surprisingly few guides online and none of them are very detailed, and don't address things like how to secure the wires to studs without tearing the drywall from ceiling to outlet. They claim they only rip the side-to-side section to do the horizontal run from outlet to outlet.

>>1230749
I hate to say it but there is no substitute for experience. As an electrician when we fish wires in finished walls they are free floating and only secured by the box and whatever framing we drill through to get it into the appropriate cavity. If it is new construction or open framed walls they should be secured per 334 (Non metallic cable aka Romex)

A legal way to give yourself a grounded outlet at a few locations would be to install GFCI outlets. That saves you from running new wire.

A couple tricks I'll give you that can help you out. If you are rewiring a lot of outlets or just doing a whole house rewire cut out large sections of drywall to take runs to the attic (if 2 story). You can use a finish nail and poke it near the edge of the drywalled ceiling and take a piece of stripped 14 gauge copper and shove about 1-2 foot up into the attic so you can find what plates you need to drill down.

As far as where to drill up from the basement we take a long thin drill bit and near the edge of the wall/carpet drill down and look for where the bit poked out. This is after using common sense lining up approximate location, checking for other wires, duct work, pipes, etc.

As a homeowner you are allowed to do your own electric work. It would be really hard for any insurance company to prove that an electrical fire was caused by something you did.

>>1230933
>free floating

Is that to code? I thought wires had to be secured every x units of length, plus within a certain distance of each box. Or are you saying that it's only required in new construction. I have a copy of the 2011 NEC which is what my city adopted so I'll look.

Also good tip on the locating attic/ceiling position, thanks.

>>1230933
>A legal way to give yourself a grounded outlet at a few locations would be to install GFCI outlets.


It's legal and safe but what you said is not true or legal to claim: (c) Replace it with a grounding-type receptacle protected by a GFCI device (circuit breaker or receptacle). Since the grounding terminals for the receptacles are not grounded, you must mark the receptacles with the words “GFCI Protected” and “No Equipment Ground” (see Sidebar: Understanding GFCIs).

>>1228306
RSI taught me voltage, motors, wiring techniques, calculating circuit loads, and reading blueprints, but honestly i was just looking for an excuse to use my G.I. Bill. their classes are actually a little pricey for what you can learn for free.

>>1231415
also Solar calculations, installation and storage

>>1231172
I am speaking to him in terms an average homeowner would understand. I can get quite in depth into code discussion and the intricacies of grounding and bonding, but I am speaking to him in simplistic terms. You are absolutely correct in the sense that by installing a GFCI you are not creating a grounded path back to the panel, nor is the outlet legally "grounded". A homeowner sees a 3rd prong and refers to it as a grounded outlet-they have no idea what is behind the wall and just assume that 3rd prong is a normal part of updating their homes electric, only to have us come out after a home inspector/sale pending job for us to change them to the proper 2 prong outlets.

I was trying to avoid getting to in depth and technical. It is legal to install a GFCI on a 2 wire system and slap the "No EGC" sticker on it. Just casual terminology like referring receptacles/outlets as "plugs".

>>1230953
I only have my 2017 handy, but it is very likely unchanged. In 334.15 it says "In exposed work, except as provided in 300.11 (A), cable shall be installed as specified in 334.15 A-C.

Key words are "In exposed work". To further clarify this you can go to 334.30 Securing and Supporting (B) unsupported cables (1)
"Is fished between access points through concealed spaces in finished buildings or structures and supporting is impracticable."

So the answer is yes you can have free floating romex in your walls. However if you have a section of drywall cut out to fish wires AND you are getting it inspected it would be a good idea to put a staple or 2 where you can reach depending on how large the hole is. Also when securing wires in general if you are in a particularly crappy spot to reach you can hammer a staple mostly in and zip tie wires to it or screw a one hole EMT strap to hold wires where hammering is largely impractical.

>>1228362
>>1228487
>>1228531
So it's part of general contract law, in that if you are negligent when the second party relies on you then either they are excused from a duty to perform or you are liable for any additional costs thereto.
Basically, if the insurance company could sue you for doing a criminally negligent job (eg bare exposed aluminum wiring and switching out the 10A breaker for a 50A one so it stops tripping on you etc.), then they wont pay because they would win the lawsuit. If it was a contractor, they will pay you and then sue the contractor to recover.

However, insurance company level law firms are expensive, so it generally only comes up as a business level issue or for MASSIVE fires where there's suspicion of arson generally.

I will say >>1228635, that a judge would not expect you to have a paper trail for every thing you get done, if it's over something that was fixed a few years ago, you're fine.

But yeah, given the realities of PR, it would have to be fairly obvious, like you had several electrical fires and called the fire dept, did the work yourself, and then your house burnt down. Or someone does a terrible job of running electricity to their garage and shed and shorts the breaker box.

Basically, you have to get to russian LED level for that to happen.

Generally though, what happens is they pay the claim per the contract and then drop you as uninsurable.

Umm. oh, another thing that will have an insurance company not pay for the full claim is if you have an illegal unpermitted addition.

>>1232189

Shit man, that makes it a lot easier. I have fished wires through walls before so I think on a lot of the runs I will be OK. I imagine on insulated walls I will not have as easy a time...

>>1233095

Getting labeled as uninsurable is pretty bad too unfortunately. But it's good to know that I'd basically have to do something completely obvious for them to get to that point.