Why aren't you doing your part? http://archive.is/xcd

>>1212275
How the fuck can a city government be THIS inefficient

>>1212275
That's outrageous.

I live near a small town where we do projects like this all the time. Our park infrastructure is great, and only can be because of guys like this. Is all of Canada like this? Or just the major cities?

Our town has an ordinance that say donated projects are risk free and carry no liability to the builder or town.

>>1212275
Those stairs look like shit. That railing is shit.

>>1212275
The highschool I went to backed onto this park. I'v gone up and down that hill literally hundreds of times, usually drunk or high, with no issue.

Also be built it totally wrong

>>1212284
That's why you don't let homeless men handle your carpentry.

>>1212278

Literally every single government body is like that.

I used to work for a library. For no good reason whatsoever (although I think anyone with a brain could figure out why things worked this way) we were only allowed to purchase equipment, of any kind, though specific vendors. It didn't matter if it was literally the exact same thing. The Dell Inspiron computers available down the fucking street at Fry's stuck out as a glaring example, but we were legally forbidden from buying anywhere else.

And they knew it. So they abused that position, putting absolutely absurd markups on everything. We're talking like little wooden book carts, made of 4 casters and like maybe 5-6 board feet of hardwood, with less than 2 man hours of work (including finishing) put into them, going for a few hundred buckaroos each. Paying triple or quadruple MSRP for computer equipment. God knows how much the more specialized stuff, like the self-checkout scanners, took out of the budget.

Everyone I've talked to who ever worked in anything remotely related to a government function observed similar. The amount of waste that goes on when it comes to taxpayer money is nuts. The library thing wasn't even that bad, when you consider how much they spend on wages in a year; even private businesses overspend on a lot of things because it barely makes a dent in the bottom line compared to what the employees cost. But now imagine the same sort of careless wastefulness applied to public projects running in the tens of millions or more.


Ever since I got a job that involved making purchases outside of the general consumer market, I came to the conclusion that the best way to make money is to sell goods and services to other people who want to make money. That goes double for government.

>>1212325

It was like that when I worked in the hospital.

They had vendor contracts for everything.

Plain white towels were like $20 a piece, when you can buy the exact same ones at Walmart for like $3 each

The most hilarious was the washing detergent. The hospital was literally paying upwards of $40 for detergent

Every single thing they purchased was marked 500%+ higher than if anyone else was buying it.

>>1212325
Most government bodies are only allowed to buy products from approved vendors. These vendors are required to meet certain standards. Things like disclosing hiring practices, employee compensation, if they hire veterans, the handicapped, that it's not all just an old white guy club, etc. They also often have to source USA made products whenever they are available, hire union employees, provided minimum medical and retirements plans, all sorts of shit. Often times they are the same standards as military contractors. It adds up quickly.

As for that specific project, I looked into it and they weren't going to put in a wooden staircase that they would have to replace every 10 years and would get sued every time a special snowflake gets a splinter. They were going to put in a full concrete stairway with access for the disabled. So, a stairway and a ramp.

>>1212275
>because they were not built to regulation standards
that's why

>>1212284
yeap
that looks terribly unsafe

>>1212275
8 steps. $65,000...

OVER $8,000 PERS STEP MINIMUM.

City being this asspained.


Me thinks the project directors are dipping into the cookie jar anons.

How many people in that office got a new car?

>>1212372
>because they were not built to regulation standards
>that's why
Get rid of the standards, then. They're just getting in the way.

>>1212521
Man, it's almost like they were going to put in a concrete and handicapped accessible stairway like >>1212357 said. It is almost like you didn't read the thread.

>>1212357
>These vendors are required to meet certain standards. Things like disclosing hiring practices, employee compensation, if they hire veterans, the handicapped, that it's not all just an old white guy club, etc.

You forgot the part where the vendor shows the board members how much cream they can cut of the top

>>1212550

Concrete is expensive but not that goddamned expensive. Probably a $20-25k job in my area of the US, but government jobs are notorious for overpaying. It's all goody goody and buddy buddy.

>t. small business owner that has lost out on contracts because Bubba knows County Commissioner LeRoy.

>>1212357

Which is fine, in principal, but it still opens itself to abuse, bad.


For reference, my workplace actually had an ADA-compliant ramp/stairs put in a few years ago. Pretty close in size to what would be needed for that grade. We paid under $10k for it. That wasn't even the cheapest bid.

I can appreciate why you wouldn't want to end up with people getting electrocuted by a printer with no brand on it and who's menus default to Mandarin, but "can only buy from such-and-such, inc." as a hard rule means that, inevitably, at least two people are making a good chunk of easy taxpayer money off the deal.

>>1212275

>too lazy to walk around to an entrance
>hop a fence and hack a ditch down an embankment
>build a real shitty looking staircase
>he's supposedly an engineer

this is one case where the city is in the right

>>1212286
Why were you drunk and high at high school anon? Didn't you care about your future?

>>1212630
>it still opens itself to abuse,

Keep in mind that NOT having approved vendors also can be abused. A school district near where I live started giving out contracts to good ol' boys to do building maintenance/upgrades, and come to find out none of that shit ever actually got done--it was all fraud, where the contractors were splitting the money with the district rep who was in charge of it all. Eventually it got discovered and the district got taken over by the fucking state.

So basically you have two options: pay out the ass to leave a nice CYA paper trail, or pay normal prices and have little to know way of knowing whether the money's being spent fraudulently. Which option makes more sense probably depends entirely on the size of the organization.

>>1212661
Really? It costs 5-10x what a project is worth just to leave a paper trail and have someone go look at it? Talk about bullshit... I get that total cost will go up some, but there is no reason for the materials to go that high, and you know it. Are you an approved contractor perhaps?

>>1212275
Those steps don't look like they would hold up 5 years.

>>1212680

First off, 5-10x is an obvious retarded exaggeration. It's more like 2-3x.

Second, I didn't say they increase it to the exact amount that is added due to extra certs and compliance; they obviously mark it up as far as they can without them looking for another vendor. Lemme guess, you're one of those that think it's outrageous that something that costs $10 to make gets sold for $200?

>>1212528
> They're just getting in the way.

Yeah, getting in the way of the city using homeless people to put up rickety shitty steps that are dangerous.

I wonder what other projects the city was actually using its time and funds on? Like repairing roads and other important stuff. Not putting in some stupid stairs at a park

>>1212707
Well shit, sorry Anon, I ran you together with another post or two; you shouldn't have been the one I responded to. And I understand retail versus wholesale versus production cost, so no I don't have a problem with normal markup. The scale of Government waste bothers me though.

>>1212707

Not him.

But you don't "sell" construction. Using your example it is more like instead of it being built for $10 it's being built for $50

File: brofistcover.jpg (21KB, 438x438px) Image search: [Google]

21KB, 438x438px

>>1212718

>>1212278
It's an old boy network, everyone has a finger in the pie, everybody wants their cut and it doesn't matter how much it costs, since "the government" is paying for it.

>>1212528
>Get rid of the standards
who needs any building codes at all?

if developers want to build death trap high rise building, they should be able to!

>>1212861
Let the market settle it.
If someone builds a skyscraper that falls over and kills thousands of people, nobody else will use that contractor right?

>>1212275
I've been seriously considering putting up a couple of street signs in my town.
Our main street crosses a state highway and has on-ramps for each direction, but they're not marked and it's common for people to end up going on the wrong ramp.
Somebody else actually did make one small one, but it didn't last very long.
Of course I can't make a metal one with reflective paint, but a painted plywood replica of a real state highway sign isn't too far-fetched.

>>1212372
>>because they were not built to regulation standards
>that's why
the stairs might be a shitfest but thats not why they want them torn down
>a $65,000 city project to handle the problem
thats why. follow the money.

>>1212865
you can probably buy them from a sign wholesaler/retailer on the internet
they just won't have DoT stickers on the back

>>1212873
>thats why. follow the money.

The money IS important
Liability can cost a lot of money.

>>1212878
which is why they have building standards in the first place

>>1212878
stairs don't cost $65000
neither would designing them.
even if no one had ever built stairs before.

>>1212897
They cost a lot when its not just stairs, but stairs and a handicapped accessible ramp with a maximum of 1:12 slope that must meet *all* regulations.

Pics show that the vertical rise of the stair flight is about 2.5 - 3 meters, so that's a minimum of 30 meters of ramp needed as well.

The stairs shown are also too narrow - it is not possible to go past anyone on the stairs, and, if there are more than 18 steps in the stairs, then a landing is also a requirement.

If the width of the stairs exceeds about 1100mm, then a handrail is required on both sides. Handrails also must be designed to so as not to let a child squeeze between them (maximum gap is 125mm).

The open risers also look larger than the maximum 125mm permitted on stairs, and there doesn't seem to be any step edge tactile markers for visually handicapped people, so I doubt it would have proper tactile marks at the top and bottom of the flight either, not to mention properly constructed approach paths.

I'm not sure, but I think that one of the handrail considerations is that newel posts are not supposed to interrupt the run of a handrail (ie you shouldn't have to take your hand off the handrail because of a newel post). I can quite see the construction and associated landscaping going past $30,000 at a minimum.

>>1212275
>a $65,000 city project to handle the problem
The city should have put up better barriers to prevent access to this unauthorized path.
Signs directing foot traffic to the actual entrance with notices of risk of fines for crossing the barriers.
KEEP OFF THE GRASS!

>>1213116
If you can't walk on stairs you don't deserve to be alive.

Who the fuck plans a handicapped accessible ramp on a path were a rocky dangerous slope was okay for years. It's a failure everyway you look at it. First doing nothing for years, realizing the need way too late, overreact by overplanning it and at last pay way too much for a bad solution. Classic government style. (In Germany they would plan with 150k and in the end pay 200k because of unforeseen events which either weren't there or every sane person predicted years ahead)

This is the fault of capitalism.

>>1213128
That's, like, your opinion, mang.
Too bad the various liability laws aren't on your side. Same with anti-corruption shit etc.. Better start from those. With some work, the city does not need to build stairs at all and if stairs are actually built, it doesn't matter if someone hurts himself.

>>1213143
Partially.

>>1212864
>skyscraper falls over
>millions of dollars of property damage and thousands dead in surrounding area
>let the market sort it out

cities are a MESS

>>1212629
>lost out on contracts
That's because you're retarded and you don't have them out to dinner a few times a month. Donating to their reelection campaign helps too

You need to into politics, good ole boy system, and bribery.

$550? Talk about waste. I could put a slip slide in for about $10.

That construction is crap, comes no closer to following any building code than a fort built by a child. The pic shown is the best possible angle, and it still looks like shit. Read the actual article and you see what it really looks like. The top stairs are closer to being a ladder.

65k definitely seems excessive but those stairs are why a public body doesn't allow anyone with a hammer build crap Intended to be used by everyone.

>>1213171
i agree the implementation of his stair idea is bad, but i have seen worse done by eagle scout projects

if its functional until the city builds the steps who cares

>>1212275

>Cant scamper down a track
>But can swing an arthritic hip over the fence

I am not sure this adds up fellas

>>1212528
I want to believe you're just pretending to be retarded but there are surprisingly many people who think like this

>>1212873
>Take shitty stairs
>Stairs break out of nowhere
>Break leg, poke an eye
>Sue whoever built that shit, or let that shit be built, for millions

And also count maintenance, and hiring a guy to think about maintaining, and replacing the whole thing every now and then when there's another administration in place.
>We have to cut spendings, says new mayor
And here we go back to having stairs falling apart.

>>1213128
If you consider that I deserve death for breaking a leg, you don't deserves to live.
See, arbitrary death sentence works both ways.

>>1213145
If you want to live in a third world country, you can move to one. No need to fuck your own country up Anon.

>>1212278
It's the government, it's always inefficient.

It's the third party payer problem specifically. The city is spending other people's money on something for other people, so it doesn't give a fuck about the cost. It's not their money so they don't care what it costs, and it's not being built for them so they don't really give a fuck about the quality either.

Maybe it's in this thread and I'll find it as I read through it later today, but I'm curious about what regulations the stairs the guy made supposedly don't meet. I get that some level of regulation is necessary to prevent people from getting killed because some goober built a staircase out of pallet wood on a foundation made of imitation crab meat, but it gets to the point that most of the reason for certain regs is just to grease palms and tax people.

>>1213116
All that sounds great, but the end result is the stairs either never get built or end up costing a fuckton.

There's a disc golf park near me in a wooded park that's fairly hilly for this area. The "stairs" you use to climb the hills are just pieces of wood rammed into the incline. The bridges across the streams are just some planks long enough to bridge the gap. When things deteriorate too much people that use the park just go out and replace what's broken or missing. It's not handicap accessible or anything like that, but if it had to be, it would cost a shitton, or more likely there would be nothing there at all for anyone to enjoy.

I know you specifically (at least in that post) weren't saying all those regs we're good or bad, but my point is not everything is a massive skyscraper that needs to go through endless permitting and inspection. People need to relearn how to use their better judgement and just not use things that look unsafe instead of getting hurt while being a jackass and trying to sue the city for not keeping them safe from themselves.

>>1213150
Then the market will select against cities, which is ultimately a good thing IMO.

>>1212275

I'm doing my part by not building death traps that have to be hauled away to the dump before real construction can begin. That shit is wobbly to start with (watch the videos) and considering that there's no foundation it's going to last until the first good rainstorm or first frost before it's unsafe enough to need to tear it down.

The reason the estimate is so high is because it's not just the steps, it's going to be a set of concrete steps with a stainless steel railing, a concrete handicapped accessible ramp, they're going to have to tear out the car guard rail behind it to create an access way, then they're going to have to put up a different guard rail around it, and they're going to have to grade and lay a walkway from the parking lot to the steps, and then they're going to have to grade and lay a walkway from the bottom of the steps to the rest of the park, and lastly they're going to have to put back sod and any landscaping that gets torn up in the process of doing all that.

>>1212357

Case in point, the guy who put up those steps:

1) Violated labor laws by paying a homeless guy less than minimum wage.

2) Violated labor safety laws by not carrying proper insurance for himself and his laborer.

3) Violated all kinds of building and inspection codes (obviously).

4) Surely did not carry liability insurance for members of the public that may have been injured by his activities.

5) Didn't build something signed off by a professional engineer that would have protected the city from liability in the event that someone is ever injured using those stairs.

6) Violated codes about having licensed and qualified persons doing the construction work.

7) Last but not least built a pile of shit that's not going to last a year.

I can't say whether $65,000 is appropriate for this project, but one of the reasons that government work is expensive is because they do it right and they treat their workers right. Surely the private sector can get things done cheaper and faster but they also treat their employees like rented mules. You've got a whole lot of rented mules in this thread complaining that anyone not beaten by their master is asspained or a douchebag.

>>1212680

It's not just a paper trail or CYA against fraud. When a licensed engineer signs off on a design they are taking legal liability for the safety and fitness of the design. This protects the city because if there's ever a problem with the structure they can say, "Well, I'm just a bureaucrat, that licensed professional engineer told me the structure was safe so I trusted him."

The licensed professional engineer, who takes his job seriously and more importantly does not want to have his shirt sued off of his back, goes to great lengths to ensure that the design and the site are safe. They're going to have people evaluate the location, they're going to take soil samples, they're going to draw up engineering plans to ensure the work is described well, if there's any custom concrete work they're going to draw up shop plans for forms and rebar bends, they're going to draw up shop plans for the railings, etc.

That's a lot of up-front design cost before anyone even knows whether it's possible to build a set of stairs there that will be standards complaint. It's easily $5K-$10K in design work before anyone puts a shovel to the earth, but the benefit is that the city is now provably immune to liability when a moron kid tries grinding down the handrail and faceplants his nose into his brain.

And it'll last for 100 years.

>>1213192

As a 300 pound fedora wearer who also knows a thing about construction, the first time I take one of those steps a little heavy it's going to flip off the stringers and impale screws into my leg.

The stringers are those diagonal pieces that hold up the treads and the runners. They're supposed to be one on each end and a maximum of 18" apart. He's got two right in the middle, so there's nothing to resist a rotational moment when a 300lb fatass like myself puts all their weight on the ends of each tread.

The result is that those treads are going to pull away from the stringers, or they're just going to snap after use and a little rot.

>>1213298
>All that sounds great, but the end result is the stairs either never get built or end up costing a fuckton.

I don't know if you've read more about this or not, but the proposed stairs are simply a shortcut for people who don't want to walk 50 feet to the end of the parking lot so they can used the already constructed park entrance.

It's not a big deal if this never gets built. It literally impacts nothing except the people who get asspained about walking an extra 30 seconds instead of hopping a car barrier and clambering down a steep hill.

>>1212275
The people supporting this buffoon and his stupidity should be shot.

He created a public structure on his own and now costed the city way more.

That 5 figure cost for the stairs is necessary to make the fucking thing insurable. It's on the side of the hill so it's at least 10k in concrete + retaining hardware. Plus the engineering, soil samples you name it. The work will bring a wage to multiple families as well. That's why it'll be 65k.

What should of happened is they should of charged him for the removal, the inspection which did not have a permit and charged him for doing it.

Fucking Facebook sheeple thinking the city is wrong yet in the same breath they should be liable for everything.

And to boot its because the public is using a path never intended to reach the garden. There's a long way around.

This is what happens when sjws get involved. Theyre praising the ones who almost caused a disaster.

>>1213480
>sjws
My dude half the comments are from people going on about government overreach and muh free market'll fix it.

>>1213484
There should be no mercy for people who break laws, even if they don't understand them. Instead they made that asshole, who created a hazard, a hero.

As for government overreaching I actually do this for a living and I assure it can get that expensive to do it right.

Why don't we just throw out all the building codes and all the liabilities and just crowdfund city projects instead? Save us all a fuck ton of taxes and that sand nigger mechanic carpenter wanna be freedom right now would be justified.

>>1213524
What
I was just talking about the sjw bit.
I. Still think the dude who built the steps is a shithead.

>>1213524
Admittedly the guy is retarded and can't build stairs

65k is fucked though
Anons estimate is 10k counting reasonable government cheese

There's no way you get to 65k for ten feet of stairs

>>1213531
>>1213524
I think the guy who built this thought he was doing good. But I too think he was a retard for doing it.

What they need to do is law it out plainly for the people, explain why it was a dumb move and why the process exists.
They wouldnt be claiming this idiot a hero if they understood WHY it was stupid.

>>1213532
If the aggregate proves bad it may require retaining rods n shit or piles.

It's probably why they didn't make stairs there in the first place.

65k estimate site unseen but on the side of a hill is not unreasonable for city construction.

>>1213531
Dude they made a dumass à hero for nothing. How is that not SJW?

>>1213553
Unless that has somehow come to include libertarians and various other governmental minimalists, I don't think it means what you think it means.
This isn't even particularly social justice-y.

>>1212278
Because it's not their own money so they have no concept of value for effort and time spent earning said money.

>>1213554
You sure anon?

You sure that the mayor is giving this guy recognition to save face and make the government the bad guy to the public so he doesn't create an upheaval when he tells them the actual truth? And giving him amnesty to boot?

>>1213565
Calm down, senpai.
I get the feeling you have completely missed my point.

>>1213573
Maybe. It'll be a while till I get over this. Maybe I'm missing something.

>>1213553
The alt right/ libertarians and SJWs are cut from the same cry baby cloth. Its different systems of beliefs but with the same responses to any one that differs from their beliefs. Both sides will make "folk heros" out of morons and will screech "REEEEEE".

>>1213623
This is funny for me. I consider myself as a libertarian, but when it comes to public matters I do not. Thank you based anon.

>>1213309
The market will select countries which have regulations which prevent shit like that from happening, since no one wants to build in an area where their neighbours could build retarded shit which fucks them over.

>>1213333
>Building death-trap designed at fat people
I mean, I don't like fat people, but some take it really too far.

>>1213480
>Makes shitty stairs instead of a wheelchair ramp
>The highest steps are steeper than the rest, making it dangerous for old or blind people
>SJWs want these people to fuck off
I think you're confusing SJWs and the opposite of SJWs.

>>1213553
That's retarded media making clickbaity crap, nothing to do with SJWs.

File: tactile-cone-on-push-button-unit-2.jpg (47KB, 432x540px) Image search: [Google]

47KB, 432x540px

>Using your /diy/ powers for good
>Not making decoy tactile crossing indicators wired to spin randomly
>Not taking a job in a windshield tinting shop and adding electrically dimming film that turns opaque when a GPS-capable Arduino detects the car is travelling above 70mph
>Not replacing an elevator overweight sensor with one calibrated to [elevator weight]+180lbs so fatty has to take the stairs (okay, this one may be more neutral than good/evil)

>>1213623
They also both breathe and eat.

We're you trying to make a point or just play the radical centrist meme?

>>1212521
> $65,000
>Ontario

It's just Canadian money. That might buy one decent new car, but that's getting split between at least 3 people (and realistically more like 20 people).
Nobody is getting a new car out of this.

Woah, I thought this type of corruption was not very common in first world countries.

This is a walk in the park for Mexico's standards though.

>>1212658
because high school is generally boring

i'll try and go take a picture of these stairs today for the thread. i'm curious to see if they are still standing. just dont hold me to it because its raining and im going to a concert later

>>1212658

of course he didnt thats why he ended up on 4chan

>>1212278
>government

>>1212275
This would be a great to use in one of those shocking news article collection images

>>1213170
If you do this make sure you record every conversation you ever have with a local politician. Get them to say some illegal shit on camera because they will knife you I'm the back immediately if they ever have to save their own skin.

>>1212275
>toronto
a real city wouldnt have that problem; a real city would have steps that some peasant installed 200 years ago

>>1212278
m8 it's always like that everywhere

>>1213855
They removed it.
http://www.ctvnews.ca/canada/city-of-toronto-tears-down-handyman-s-park-stairs-1.3513388
(That was on the side of original article, not mobile nor archived version.)

>>1213958
so... the moral of the story is.... build shitty version of things as quickly as possible to get others to react? i dont know what iv learned here

>>1212278
Top kek welcome to big business. It shocked the shit out of me how the entire world runs on inefficiency.

>>1213958
I was happy until I saw the city guys rolling over to this faggot
The "estimate" of 65k was just an eyeballed estimate.
Jesus christ that handyman faggot makes me mad

>>1213958
Rekt

>>1212278
Local council is kind of the shallow end of the political pool.
Its full of piss, screaming kids and the odd dimwit you wouldn't trust around your livestock.

File: 11544315_G.jpg (153KB, 1280x720px) Image search: [Google]

153KB, 1280x720px

>>1212275
This barn used to be one of the biggest meth labs in my county. while I personally would never claim to be the one who burnt it down.
Someone did the community a great service and saved the tax payers a lot of money by doing so

>>1212325
>>1212329
>>1212357


Shit guys, your stories are horrible.

I work in public procurement and governments are retired when it comes to public buying. The thing is, public procurement aims to ensure best value for money by letting undertakings compete for government contract. In that way, competition is artificially created and the government gets to spend less.

Worked on a project for fuel once. This one was easy, government specified the type of fuel they needed, 4 undertakings submitted a bid and the cheapest won.

Also did a procurement procedure for laying glassfibre cables to government buildings. Holy fuck, the person overseeing the project was obsessed with safety. Even though it was a simple project, interested undertakings needed to prove they had done 5 similar projects, have 5 years of experience, hire 10% socially disabled (government policy), etc. So you can imagine, only two huge undertakings were capable of meeting the demands and submitted a id.

I think these kind of contracts are fine for big projects like building a highway. But for >>1212325 & >>1212329 , stuff like pawer towels its retarded.

>>1212275
And people want these retards running our healthcare?

This thread seems to be having some issues... Do not fear! I'm from the government, and I'm here to help!

>>1214584
Halp

>>1213128
Someday you'll be old too, anon.
Or maybe you'll be hit by a car.
I hope it's the latter.

>>1212325
Armyfag electrician. I feel your pain. The bureaucracy is real

>>1214570
>canada
They already are

>>1212299
that sounds like a parable

>>1212275
They already tore them down

and in america, someone would have sued immediately because there always wasn't a ramp to comply with the Americans with Disabilities Act.

the ACA and Obama's mandate that all hotel/motel pools/jacuzzis have a handicap forklift. is killing off pools at hotels. because it is cheaper to fill in the pool with dirt than to install and operate the cripple spatula.

>>1215216
>this fucking guy

Its for new construction, old construction is grandfathered in. Stop being a fucking faggot sheep and actually read.

>>1212275
Good. Look at him trying to keep his balance on the exact center of that step because there is literally no end support.

>>1212329
I worked in multiple nursing homes as a PT and this is true in our case as well, the exact same brace that can be bought at a Walgreens would cost 10 bucks but 150 from the retailer that the company would like.

>>1215261
Reading is hard, complaining about the black guy is easy.

>>1215261
I was just staying at the Crown Plaza Hotel at Dulles. Everything says the place has a pool. Yet you will find out there is no pool. They converted it to another ballroom/conference room.

I would have just dug into the ground, and placed some large large slags of granite to serve as steps. Then a simple railing set into some concrete filled holes to one side.

>>1215374


Sure man. Try and ensure that.

>>1212275
>8 crooked boards and a few posts cost 550 dollars
More like 50 bucks for the wood, 50 bucks for weed, 25 for a case of beer and the rest spent on hookers

>>1215378
county owned park near my house stairs in the side of a steep 100 foot high hill side, just cuts in the ground shored up by stripped logs. it also backs up against a middle school. those logs are slick as hell when wet and so is the clay ground.

>>1215404
This, there are trails and other large hills where I live. They just have logs or railroad ties or other dug in steps in all of the park areas.
It actually works quite well

>>1215372
Im not seeing the relevance.
Legislation that has no bearing on that existing pool somehow shut it down?
Did you ever think maybe itll make more money having another conference room instead of having a pool?

Also the ADA compliant ramps and or lifts that were mandated are not expensive and dont even have to be a permanent structure.
Try being a little more objective, and start giving more of a shit about our amputee and disabled vets that legislation like this benefits.

Does it really hurt a hotel that they have to buy and keep on hand a $1000 lift that rolls around, one thats pretty much just an engine hoist?

>needing stairs for a slight slope

>>1215457

When you get old shit like that happens.

>>1215404
>>1215443
>County owned

Then ya. Especially grandfathered shit. And I bet there's a sign saying play at your own risk.

This is in Toronto. Richmond hills iirc. That ain't no county. It's a bunch of hippy city snobs who cry foul whenever someone scrapes their knees and they have a huge collection of bylaws because of it. Thats why the estimate is 5+ figures and why that sand nigger was wrong.

>>1212275
This shit is ridiculous, and it's why there's no more sleepy white villages anymore. The local government has to oversee everything and either get their cut, or shut down anything that isn't a racket to get a taxpayer hike so they can funnel the money to their butt buddies. I hope whatever nigger works down at the city who wants to spend 60 grand on some steps gets a necktie party.
Sad!

>>1213325
>1)
kill yourself
>2)
kill yourself
>3) - 7)
jesus see 1) and 2)

>>1215507
You must be a small business owner
;^)

>>1213325

Well for the city to do it they would have to hire an extra 18 people at $35 an hour to stand and watch the other 2 guys working who are making "only" $30 an hour. and then you will need another guy to be a union rep which is at least $35 an hour. and with 21 hourly guys on site they would have at least 2 supervisors at about $75 to $80 an hour. who would report to a general forman making $100 an hour. who reports to the project manager making $150 an hour who then relays that information to the mayors aid or some shit.

Yeah i can see how it takes some guy a few hundred including supplies to do a job that would take the government and its lazy fucks $65,000 (at least)

>>1215482
this
the city has become a difficult place to live for all but the most complacent. I cant have a fire pit in my backyard. i cant trim the tree on my front lawn without being a certified arborist. the city is full of awful people taking out their awfulness on everyone else which makes it more awful for the other everyone else.

at least here in canada we cant really just sue the shit out of everyone all the time for anything like in murika. i cant even imagine.

>>1215561
I lived in a city like that
Over the course of a decade they just started making all sorts of retarded bylaws that didnt really help anything. Pretty much burdening people for no reason

>>1215558
This, put all those hardworking people out of a job and hire an illegal mexican to do it

>>1215404
There's a ton of national parks in the US like this that were originally made by New Deal make-work labor gangs back when no one gave a fuck and people actually appreciated 'assumed risk' and knew that if they were going for a hike in the wilderness they might twist their ankle if they are being retarded and they are not obligated to have a perfectly padded path through life at the public's expense.

.. Still though. Dem stringers.

>>1212278
To do something like this the price seems fair. It would probably be a staircase and a sidewalk with a ramp. (You have to give access to all nowadays.) Probably a light or two as well. Concrete is costly but it lasts and most city projects like this end up looking nice.

>>1215561
Its better to get sued than harassed by police and fined.

>>1215261
It depends on the design of the pool, if it is achievable, it must be implemented and they can't renovate the pool area without putting in accessibility features.

Four years ago, while I was running for mayor, I offered to, for free, scan and digitize the entire municipal code for the public to view.
They told me they'd look into options and ended up putting the task with an engineering company that was already in bed with the council.
It's four years later.
No digital code.

>>1215372
>Conference room makes more money than a pool
>A public pool costs a surprising amount of money
>Hotel closes the pool to replace it with a conf room
Fucking niggers. Tower owners are such good guys we should elect them as president.

>>1215356
Imagine being so focused on race that's the only reason you can think of as to why people don't like someone.

Grow the fuck up.

>>1213128
So basically no one deserves to be alive, cause everybody was an infant riding in a stroller at some point.

>>1215721
Now you're getting it

The city refused to build the stairs due to the high cost. So this man built them. The city was never going to build them. When this man built them they then said that they would build it.

>>1212278
Graft

>>1215689
Some guy just randomly did that for his town and they sued the fuck out of him.

Good times

>>1215721
>everybody was an infant riding in a stroller at some point.

How did homo sapiens survive before the wheel was invented?

>>1217734

The pre wheel man is well and fucking dead.

>>1215261

If you do any significant renovation, you lose the grandfathering.

Hotels need to renovate occasionally, so they renovate away the pool instead of installing a pool lift.

WHY ARE PEOPLE HOPPING THE GUARD RAIL TO STAGGER DOWN WHAT LOOKS LIKE A 45 DEGREE GOAT PATH

DO THE PEOPLE IN THAT TOWN EAT "WALL CANDY" AKA LEAD PAINT CHIPS

also that's a shit job of stairs, acceptable for access to uncle-daddy's meth cave, not okay for regular use

Toronto must burn

>>1214538
>saved the tax payers a lot of money
well the fire fighters,police etc. work for free

So from reading this thread I gather it would cost maybe 20k max if built reasonably and the rest of the cost is porkbarrel spending on bullshit for white collar types.
Also that dude just should have used some shuttering to drop in a concrete stairs that would last a few years before cracking instead of a few months before rotting.

>>1212275
I live in Toronto. They tore down the stairs and said they'd build new ones for $10000

>>1218314
The city changed their quote to 10k, saying the initial quote was a rough estimate.

>>1218371
You never ever want to undershoot your budget which is why they use bloated estimates like that

The old man pitching a fit over nothing.

>>1215507
This. All but 1 'reason' was about breaking the govt's BS rules. Maybe if we pitched in for our community instead of crying to city hall, we'd know our neighbors and not be douche bags who sue them.

Those stairs are safe. If you don't think so, slide your ass down the hill.

>>1218371

10K seems about right for materials and a professional crew, 20K would be a massive profit for the company. Dont cities in Canada have their own work crews to do this kind of thing, do they just contract it to private companies? That way they just get paid for the day and there is no incentive to rip off taxpayers other than going really slowly.
I could build these concrete stairs with a few hobos for about tree fiddy.

>>1218376
>You never ever want to undershoot your budget which is why they use bloated estimates like that

works exactly the opposite of that around here. one example: the bureaucrats of the Cnd govt hire Abobe to create a CMS to display all 10 million govt web pages. they accept a ridiculously low bid, in order to get approval from superiors, then inevitably the cost estimates begin to rise. the govt ended up paying 10x the initial estimate, and the entire system was essentially scrapped, holding only 0.25% of the govt's web pages.

the same scam occurs in all Cnd govt depts in all jurisdictions.

>>1218406
The big tech companies like Adobe, Oracle, and IBM are just complete shit. I don't know why they keep getting contracted as it's nothing but bad news lately.

>>1218385

How the fuck are those stairs safe? The stringers are in the middle for no goddamn reason, any significant weight on the sides of the step is liable to flip the fucking tread off of it.

No one builds stairs like this.

>>1218469
They're what, 16" wide at the max, secured by 2 runners? These are Canadians, not Americans!!

>>1218406
in queensland, we got a 30million dollar quote to build a new payroll system. God Bless IBM. they blew out the cost to $1.2b

>>1212325
>>1212329
>what is compliance
>compliance should be free
ok go tell your government to ignore compliance and safety ratings so shit is cheaper. they wont. you dont understand how anything works after highschool. someone slips on your non regulation carpet--million dollar lawsuit. someone loses their grip on your non-regulation slippery handrail--million dollar lawsuit. quite often retards slip on glorious marble floors in elegant foyers their pleb piece of shit selves are allowed to walk on for some reason and then they sue because they cripple themselves and then everything that was once beautiful gets covered in non-slip sand paper coatings.

>>1212629
regulations retard. you need a street light, you need to adjust for the water course. you need to build a foundation.

>>1218406
It's the same in germoney.

I want to pave a shoulder on a road that doesn't have one and has tons of cycling traffic. I also want to make a soccer field.

>>1214538
Now take on the Adderall/pharmaceutical industry

DO YOUR PART

File: photo-pd-stairs28.jpg.size.custom.crop.1086x731[1].jpg (224KB, 1086x731px) Image search: [Google]

224KB, 1086x731px

>>1212275
The bad press got the city to speed up the official staircase project.
The old guy's staircase got torn down and this is the replacement.

>>1218410
>why they keep getting contracted
1. Because they're big so they must know what they're doing
2. Ludicrous levels of corruption
3. Big names appeal to the public (see #1)

>>1222124
>65,000 canuck cuck bux
>2 guys standing around

sounds about right

As an attorney I'm almost certain we could squeeze more than $65k out of a fall down those stairs.

The best part is we could sue the guy that built the stairs and everyone that paid him plus the city. It's a shekel goldmine.

>>1212278
my local government spent 30k painting some rainbow crosswalk stripes

>>1212550
>>1212685
Who cares? For $550 you could replace it every year for 100 years and still come in under the original govt bid. It's a small hill in a park, not a government building. The handicapped can drive around the other side, or... get this... roll their chairs down the EXISTING SLOPE.

>>1222124
Now that's a set of public stairs.

>>1222124
Why the fuck didn't they just tell every construction company in the city that they could dump their excess fill dirt right here for free for a month? Grade it out to a nice, gentle slope and plant grass seed in the spring?

>>1222160
Why would assumption of risk not cover a reasonable stair?

At least if this one actually were reasonable.

For almost no additional cost, like $50 worth of extra wood and concrete piers he could have put a foundation in that would last for ten years.

If he wasn't retarded and put the stringers where they should, the steps wouldn't flip over for someone walking down them.

Put a railing on both sides.

Okay, now it's doesn't have any faults, but it's still a shekel mine. Why? can't you just kill yourself and hurry to meet your dark god?

File: images (4).jpg (7KB, 261x193px) Image search: [Google]

7KB, 261x193px

>>1218749
>quite often retards slip on glorious marble floors in elegant foyers their pleb piece of shit selves are allowed to walk on for some reason and then they sue because they cripple themselves and then everything that was once beautiful gets covered in non-slip sand paper coatings.

REEEEEE

>>1222274
Did they though? In my city it was done by a private group, funded by donations

>>1222274
Fags amirite?

>>1218749
So the solution is to get rid of the (((lawyers))) then.

>>1225411

No just retards and snowflakes and assholes who favor people for public image. Especially in OnTerrible.

My one buddy tried to plant a tree on his yard. Got fined. City decided encroachment was 5 meters into his property. 5. That's 15 feet yo. Basically he had to rip it out cause 5 more feet and it's against the foundation.

My other buddy hooked up his well water to his toilets. Got fined. Ontario wants 3 back check valves. Expensive ones that were lobbied by the manufacturer. He fought it and lost.

This was on their own property.

This guy goes and modifys a fucking park with badly made stairs, for the public and gets turned into a hero. Yet the fine young men and women whom color the playground with memes using a spray can go to jail. Technically, if all things were fair, he vandalized the park and should be prosecuted. Or there should be a "use park at your own risk" and it all becomes a non issue.

But not in OnTerrible. It's a fucking popularity contest there and someone always takes it so far it cause rules to be written in blood.

Like the backcheck valve. Why is it so? Because some dumb fuck city workers lost pressure on a line and didn't report it. It was their fault. Well somehow a pigfarmer backfed into the system unknowingly. Killed dozens of people. The head of the manufacturer sits on the board and flaunted mega expensive valves. To add insult to injury he required 3, not 2, not 1 (just to protect the city), 3, each over 3 figures. Got unanimously voted in with the backlash from the deaths still lingering outside. Made him alot money. Yet the people who tried to save a buck to use their well got fucked.

So yes, kill the lawyers, snowflakes, politicians, the retards, the mayor whom excused that sorry fuck of a carpenter and the old guy himself.

That fucker should have been fined and sent the bill for demolition not praised like Noah building the ark.

>>1212278
that inefficiency is a form of power you faggot. You think the DMV is cluster fuck cause they are retards? kek they do it to control you
. It the same reason anyone with long warranty has long wait time to get to customer service and complex return, cause hopefully you will give up, same with rebates

>>1225460

>Like the backcheck valve. Why is it so? Because some dumb fuck city workers lost pressure on a line and didn't report it. It was their fault.

Reporting it doesn't automatically stop the water from not flushing a system. People also need to read, see or hear the reports to know what is in effect and not drink the water until it is reported all clear.

We normally have scheduled outages once every month because of service upgrades to the electrical supply and repairs on the water piping but despite the fact that the water authority and power company blast these outages on the radio, television and newspaper you still have people complaining that no one told them it would happen, even though it has been happening on the 15th of every month between 8:00am and 2:00pm for the last 10 months. It's almost like a /b/ banana repost. (This is your daily reminder that on the 15th of XXX month between the hours of 8:00am and 2:00pm XXX and XXX services will be out of order for that time period, please ensure....etc.)

That does not include the emergency outages when a truck wipes out a pole or an excavator decides to rattle hammer a pipe right under the old road. Sometimes if it is a rural fault, no one would fucking know for days to weeks if anyone cares to report it. It's not like they patrol every corner of the country every day to make sure that there are no leaks or blown fuses on the transformers.

I live in pirate land because I don't like what I consider excessive regulation but at the same time I totally understand why there is regulation in the first place. Even in my own shithole house we establish rules and there are only 3 of us. Wait a minute, most households have their own set of rules! Imagine that.

You really should at least truly understand why, especially if you would choose to live in Canada rather than Somalia or the Democratic Republic of Congo.

>>1225460

>Yet the people who tried to save a buck to use their well got fucked

Sounds more like the people who died from the well backwash got fucked.

>>1222359
>would assumption of risk not cover a reasonable stair
it's not reasonable because it's not built to code, which you would assume every public stair case is built to.

you're basically just saying it should be built to code. those need to be codes for public facilities designed to meet more than just residential standards. it needs to degrade in a safe manner over a long lifetime of operation.

if your mommy tumbles down stairs do you want to pay her medical bills and lost income from her injury or should the asshole who built a hazardous piece of crap be responsible?

>>1227257
Did you even read what I wrote? How the fuck is this any different than Somalia?

It's an unreasonable law due to the municipality fucking up and then got lobbied by a valve manufacturer in Ontario.

>Somalia extorts people because they don't have water
>Canada extorts people because they do.

>>1227259
Make one per source mandatory. Or even just 1 for the municipal source and your well is at your own risk.

But 3, at 500 bux a piece?

And ya those people who got the well backwash did get fucked. The people who caused it walked away free.

I guess white countries are no different than nigger countries! Immagine that.

>>1212278
video related tho take with a pinch of salt
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XfAE5emMCs8

>>1227277

>And ya those people who got the well backwash did get fucked. The people who caused it walked away free.
>I guess white countries are no different than nigger countries! Immagine that.

You hook up a well to the mains water supply and you think that the municipality fucked up? Do you know why, if you have your own power generator, whether it be solar, wind, diesel, Otto, water wheel, whatever, that you are required in pretty much everywhere in the world to have a transfer switch or terminator? That's because if you tie your system into the main line, if there is a failure and a technician is working on the line down stream he can be capped by your 20kw 480v output.

I would admit that three check valves sounds excessive initially but it is not unusual for one just to fail, even a good quality one. These items normally sit unchecked and unmaintained so a failure going amiss is likely. So you would put in two. Now if you think some one is going to perform hourly checks on their check valves as if they were running an oil derrick then you should think again. That's time and money right there. So a reliable source to prevent someone's mother, father, son, daughter, attack helicopter, etc. from dying is to install 3.

Ask yourself. Are you worth $1500?

$1500 is all it takes to reliably protect you against drinking a pig farmers ground soaked well draining back into your water lines when there is a municipal failure. The municipality cannot prevent a fucking failure. It happens. It is real life. Bitches forget shit. Even if you are fucking white, you fucking fuck up, royally, multiple times through out your lifetime.

>>1227268
So if anon built a stair to code for $8000 or $10,000, it shouldn't be possible to hurt yourself on it and sue him or the city into oblivion if there is nothing wrong with the stair.

The city has no excuse to build a $60,000 stair or a million dollar bathroom.

It's not even skimming a little off the top, it's getting 6 whole extra barrels full of pork fat and swimming around in it.

>>1227358

To code includes getting the contract.

So you would be able to get sued because, believe it or not, the codes have SOME flexibility (usually towards the more reserved side) for individual situations and the design has to be approved for it to be to "code".

>It's not even skimming some off the top.

Honestly, with the amount of beauracracy and late payments and false starts you have to deal with when doing contracts with the government I am not surprised that shit is so expensive. There's usually a maintenance program (more like a warranty), a serious snagging course involved and multiple changes along the way involved that all require you to re apply and have your equipment sat there for a month while you wait on shit (you move stuff out and you get the go ahead and if it's not there in 30 seconds you are fucked) that it makes you want to rip your hair out.

I myself recently have not done any government work but I used to work for a company that got a couple contracts and they asked me if I wanted a shot at project management. I said yes and I regretted it. You can literally run around in circles.

>>1227358
>The city has no excuse to build a $60,000 stair
Correct, which is why they updated their quote to $10k, which means $20k because of government bloat.