Hey /diy/ I'm having a strange electrical problem in my

>>1197254
Are you sure it's only in your bedroom?

Is your bedroom connected exclusively to one of the 3 phases delivered to your house, assuming three-phase power?

>>1197257
Sorry a word was cut out of my first post.
It's not only my room its also affected the computer room has also been affected, its right besides my room.

I don't know the first thing about electricty, I have no idea whether or not my house is three phase power.
How would I check if my room is connected exclusively to one of the 3 phases delivered to my house?

If they are on the same breaker, you could be over loading it. Especially when yoir graphics card kicks in with the fans.

>>1197263
>>1197254
For a quick test try using a long extension cord to power your computer from an unaffected room, see if that kills the power in that room.

>>1197266
I plugged the computer into extension cord plugged in from my living room and the power is still on.

>>1197268
I mean, wait for that "once in a while". Do some GPU stesstests or something like that.

>>1197254
usually for such strange problems, taking a picture will instantly let us identify the problem

>>1197254
Your house is haunted.

>>1197270
What should I take a picture of?

>>1197273
GF bent over. Sister is acceptable. Nude of course.

In all seriousness, if you're losing power to only one breaker, replace the breaker. There's nothing else that can possibly cause it unless like a previous anon said, you're in some industrial/commercial turned residential place, but even then it's extremely unlikely.
It isn't uncommon however to use one side of the 220 into your house for one half, and the other side for the other half, in which case the transformer to your house will explode soon probably.
If you want to do something about it, find out if it really is just one breaker turning off. Post a pic. Also, physically touch the top of the breaker, the part you can access without getting shocked, and tell me if it's hot or room temp.

Sounds like a failing thermomagnetic breaker in the lighting panel. It's also possible you have a bad junction but it's unlikely. If it's an arc sensing one (most likely) either the breaker is lying or you have something arcing out (like the d sub plug on the back of the pc case, the happened to me a little while ago). This function of the breaker was to protect people using electric blankets and an intermittent connection can cause a trip. That breaker could be stuck (broken spring).

First make sure everything that turns off during the phenomenon is on that breaker. Start flipping.

If this is the case just replace the breaker. If you don't know how don't touch it. Get someone who knows how to show you. If it's not then see below.

Also if your graphics cards are tripping a loaded 15 amp residential breaker that fast well fuck me Freddy does it generate lift? Bwahahaha. Thermoelectric breakers use an inverse function of time and amps to trip. Case fans might represent a few mA on the highside of a switch mode powersupply, but to push it over the threshold and trip? Geez bro if he's right go play your lottery numbers.

But breakers do go bad and do weird shit. Just go buy one if you can prove it (you'll need a pic of the old one and the panel before you go to the store) and find someone who knows how to use a screwdriver so you don't kill yourself.

As for the last anons theory of losing a phase on a 2 phase service, also unlikely but possible. I suppose it would depend on the condition of your transformer or service feeder. But it isn't something you can touch. Only the utility company can. They won't show up unless you can prove that's the issue. Best way to do that is with a 240v appliance but being intermittent it wouldnt be easy.

Regardless whatever it is it will get worse and eventually fail whatever it is. Hopefully not catastrophically.

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>>1197326
None of the breakers turned off. It's room temp.

>>1197356
Start flipping nigga

>>1197356
No shit, if they reset. Flip the one that is causing trouble off and see if everything that goes off during your issue is off when that breaker is off. Then you know it's just the breaker. If you turn off the breaker but your PC is still on or whatever, then you need to call the electric company.

>>1197362
Also please provide a close up with readble text on that last breaker with the test button, I'm curious to see if it's some sort of shunt trip.

>>1197364
It's a gfi

Actual electrician here. It sounds like your breaker isn't tripping, but AC units draw a lot of current. We typically run a dedicated 20 A circuit to each window AC unit. If it is going off and coming back on you probably have a loose connection at one of the outlets. First shut off breakers until you find the one that controls your problem area. Leave only that one off and check every plug, light, etc between your panel and the furthest side of the house. If it is a 2 story or ranch check those floors as well-houses aren't wired by room, but by square footage. Open up each dead outlet (even the ones you don't use) and look at the screws on the sides of the outlets-chances are one side is cooked and allowing electric to flow some of the time. If there is a wired joint behind it make sure it isn't melted and that the wire nut is twisted tight. If you have aluminum branch circuits that have never been pigtailed that is almost certainly your issue. If the wires were stabbed in the back of the outlets instead of wrapped around the screws it could be a loose connection there. They really need to ban backstabbing.

As for the person assuming 3 phase to a house-where on earth are you at? No utility I am aware of runs 3 phase to a house. It is a standard 120/240 Nominal system here for residences in the U.S. Some large apartment complexes coming off transformers will be 120/208, but that is different. No 3 hot conductors at any residential panel, only 2 hots and a neutral (grounded conductor).

>>1197393
>As for the person assuming 3 phase to a house-where on earth are you at?

Not that person, but could be Europe. Distribution to houses is 240/416 Wye. Sometimes just single phase, but it can be two or all three.

>>1197393
You're just gonna get him killed or get him to start a fire. Poor kid has no clue what you're talking about. He even admits his ignorance.

Also there's alot of houses that have 3 phase or otherwise known as split phase service where the original service was setup for industrial off the pole. Although its likely he's on a standard residential service he could be in a large building or in the EU.

I love how electricians just think everyone thinks like them and the whole world revolves around them.

Actual electrical engineer here.

>>1197407
Ah an engineer. We fix your work all the time-actually my first call today was fixing a dead short at a guy's house who was an industrial engineer.

I never meant to give off the vibe that the whole world revolves around me or any electrician, I am stating a fact because it can be difficult to find the right information, especially considering anyone can post anything here.

As for what he decides to tackle himself is up to him. This is DIY, not "go call a professional". I am trying to give him safe and sound advice and answer questions to the best of my ability without being there. If the circuit is dead when he is working on it there is no risk. If a loose connection exists the risk of fire technically already exists, though I have yet to see that happen. Worst case scenario with a 115V receptacle I have seen is the side of the plug melted.

As for services we don't care about the utility's end or how they feed their transformer. I am referring to the service brought into the house.
Our utility refers to it as single phase (2 hots/1 grounded conductor). Commercial and Industrial is often 3 phase, which as an engineer I am sure you know there are many variations depending on the transformer. I did ask where you were at; I know other parts of the globe do things differently with their power.

As for the OP, he can either find a competent electrician who can troubleshoot the problem or he can try to fix it himself. I always encourage those who aren't comfortable with electric to call a professional, but since he is here and has already done so it seems he is interested in fixing it himself. Most homeowners are ignorant about phases, lost neutrals, differences between grounding/grounded/bonded, and other technical aspects. The do understand black to brass and white to silver, wrapping the screws around clockwise. There are a ton of videos on youtube explaining how to do that: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LOup928Uw5Y

Once upon a time a little DIYer started having electrical trouble in his garage. Power left the breaker box from a single breaker on a 12-2 outdoor rated wire through the basement, out the foundation and under the driveway to the garage.

Breaker would trip and the little DIYer would reset and things would be fine for a couple weeks then it would trip again.

Little DIYer replaced every outlet, switch and the actual breaker with no change - any non electrician homos try and play with 12 gauge underground wire; not as easy as one would think.

Long story"short" and no other easy option the little DIYer ended cutting out a section of the driveway to find a nice short in the wire just outside the house foundation.

Moral of the story, put your shit in conduit because some moron will hit it with a shovel and you wont have to tear up your driveway 40 years later to pull a new line.

PS: not all concrete driveways are 4-6" thick sometimes they are 8-10" thick in the low spots.

PSS: concrete is heavy

PSSS: appreciate the labor involved with pouring new concrete.

The driveway was poured circa 1976 and one of the concrete monkeys nicked the line and the hot side worked its way through to the ground (hence the voltage on the ground) then finally the short got bad enough to make contact with the neutral and would trip the breaker a couple days after it would rain.

>>1197407
>3 phase
>split phase service
nigga wut

Voltage fluctuation when the compressor on your hvac kicks in

RFI suppresion cap across hvac supply will fix

Do you live in city or rural area? Buddy of mine had a similar problem caused by bad connectios in the overhead power lines and high winds shaking said lines. Had an electrician over who didn't find any faults in the houses electrical system. Finally called the power company and the figured it out.

>>1198014
It's when you use a 3 phase service but provide 2 phases per panel. Common in large offices.

>>1197831
I know the difference between a bus driver and a screwdriver as I started with tools.

The guy has a potentially faulty breaker which may not trip. And he admitted he knows nothing.

Putting him up against an intermittent connection with the possibility of not having protection is fucking retarded and you know it. It's not a beginners diy job. But hey, this is the internet and OP assumes all risk.

In my opinion you can give him all the jargon you want but you can't teach a guy how to trouble shoot something like that over text without crazy risk.

>>1198209
No it isn't. You are not describing split phase service.

Split phase service intentionally grounds the center of a set of windings. Do this to a three phase wye and you have two references to ground and they have voltage potential between them. Once they are bonded together and the transformer is energised, you have a transformer fire. Do this to a delta and you made a high leg delta, not a split phase service. You see, split phase service can have all three phases individually split and share a common ground reference because the secondary windings are not electrically connected to the other phases. If you were to center tap an additional winding on a high leg delta, you would once again have two neutrals at different potentials and bonding them together would cause a fire.

Incidentally, confusing split phase with three phase will kill more people and start more structure fires than some amateur DIY guy working on a de-energised circuit. Something important for the "electrical engineer" to think about.

>>1198429
Not asshole engineer, just anon testing his understanding.

What I have figured is phases relate to what coming into the transformer, thus a split phase comes from a single phase in, and has three taps off of it at approximate +/-120 and 0. 0 gets bonded to earth at the transformer and house. Techs can actually change the winding on the transformer to correct for voltage drop.

>>1198517
Yes, split phase is a singular phase. The center tap is deliberately bonded to the grounding electrode conductor. Your water pipes and building steel is also bonded to the same system. This means your whole house is at the same voltage potential as the center tap of that one phase. As the voltage sine wave goes up and down, your whole house matches whatever the center tap is doing. As long as it stays matched, you can have one hand on a water pipe and your tongue on a neutral wire without getting shocked.

If you bond one end instead of the center tap, you'll have 120v between the grounded conductor and the center tap, but 240v between the grounded conductor and the tap on the other end. I hear 120v power tools work GREAT when plugged into 240v power, but they don't work very long.

Had this problem with my oven. Thought that shit was toast. Shit would heat up. turn off my oven. Cool off. Turn on oven. Electrician turned up and found a shorting breaker. id say its somewhat the same considering its cutting out a whole room

Make sure you haven't got some fucked up ripple control for your AC unit that is probably wired off the back of your plugs.

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In for electrical curiosity.

I recently had an electrician install a 2-gang outlet that's dedicated for my workstation/desk. There are 2 computers, 2 monitors(1080p 24"), a 48v phantom power supply for a microphone and an LED light strip plugged in.

One computer has an 850w PSU and the other 1000w. Though I don't think either computer exceeds 450w at full load, just high PSU rating for future upgrades.

Everything except the 1000w tower is plugged into a 4200 joule 12 outlet surge protector. The box itself is grounded and obviously the outlets are grounded too.

It's a separate 20a circuit. I believe everything in there is safe to run at once considering it all ran ungrounded in the previous outlet which shared the circuit with 3 other outlets running a mini fridge, 55" 4k TV, various consoles sound system(2.1) and other 4 amp phone charges.

I was told that the compressor cycling may cause issues with my computers, but isn't that exactly the reason why I have an expensive surge protector? To protect from under and over voltages? Or is under powering only protected by UPS'? Should I invest in a good UPS? They don't seem too expensive for the benefits compared to the 42$ I spent on the surge protector.

What is safe to run on a 20 amp outlet continuously? I know my shit won't overload it but I'm curious anyways. It's on 12-3 MC wire I believe all the way to my panel. He also said there was an extra red wire in there that can provide an additional 20 amp circuit and that it's safe to throw the same ground and neutral on there as long as the hot is its own line. Is that true?

Thanks in advance to any electrician who reads this. I only just started learning and want to make sure my info is correct and standard.

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>>1198579

fuck, but that's a lot of extra useless detail for such a simple question. yes, you can rewire the socket so it has two different phases on the top and bottom, and the neutral will be able to handle it coz the current in it will not add up but will be the difference between top and bottom. seems odd but it's true.

see http://www.easy-do-it-yourself-home-improvements.com/how-to-wire-a-split-receptacle.html

>>1198588
Okay, so I can wire the two outlets separately that's good to know. But can I run that neutral wire for instance to a separate outlet box right next to that box using the red wire contained in the same main line? And then hook that red wire up to the same cheater breaker and have 2 separate 20 amp circuits using the same ground and neutral?

I wanted to give background and know exactly how much power I can safely run. I rarely turn my electronics off and especially regarding the cycling of the compressor and causing power fluctuations I want to make sure all of my shit is safe and protected.

>>1198595

yeah, you're essentially doing the same thing as a split-receptacle wiring job except part of it is shifted a few inches away to another receptacle.

>>1198603
Awesome bud thanks.

Any info regarding the compressor cycling affecting the power for my PC? It's just a mini fridge I doubt it's too crazy.

>>1198605

motors are motors. when they start up they can take crazy amounts of current. putting it on a diff phase should fix it.

>>1197393
As a european, I can't understand why you don't have 3 phase 230/400 power.
It's so much easier powering larger equipment like boilers, stoves and pretty much everything that draws more power than 2kW.
Also all the rotational machines like cement mixers, pumps, buzzsaws doesn't need running capacitors when connected directly to 3p.

>>1198429
Eaton sells UPS units that are classified as split phase modules when 2 phases are sourced from a 3 phase system to a lighting panel.

It's different from their single phase units. And their setups can change depending on the upstream service configuration.

And I know where ur going with this the problem is the industry does not keep a consistent glossary across the globe. People can argue that single phase is 2 phases as well because it can be argued like that, or in your interpretation of it. And the name changes as you go from territory to the next.

You have a fucked up idea about what bonding and grounding is but then so does everyone everywhere you go. Bonding is not grounding. Go ahead and argue.

Finally I was being an asshole cause this type of this is how people die. Or cause wall fires.

If OP can demonstrate he can safely isolate the circuit and troubleshoot with a tester in a safe manner I wouldn't of said a thing. But it won't actually be safe unless he pulls the breaker off the bus to be sure.

Maybe if you would of lead with that instead I wouldn't of been such a dick.

>>1198624
So people like op won't kill themselves. You can survive 120 but good lick with 240 or whatever the fuck retarded voltage you EU fags use.

>>1199377
>Eaton sells UPS units that are classified as split phase modules when 2 phases are sourced from a 3 phase system to a lighting panel.

A phase to phase on the primary to make a single split phase on the secondary is actually normal. It does not make the secondary three phase.

>It's different from their single phase units. And their setups can change depending on the upstream service configuration.

The primary does not have to be three phase to make a single split phase on the secondary. This also doesn't make the secondary three phase. How do you not get this?

>You have a fucked up idea about what bonding and grounding is but then so does everyone everywhere you go. Bonding is not grounding. Go ahead and argue.

Why would I argue they are the same? You can bond without grounding. There is a difference.

Throwing around your "vast knowledge" about phases would only help the OP if this was a three phase question. It would also help if you were accurate.

To help the OP, if you want to be a bit safer (the other electrician gave you a reasonably safe plan) mark all the outlet boxes on the circuit and turn off the main breaker. Grab a flashlight and open the outlets and check connections. This eliminates the danger of uncapping wires from a different breaker in the same box.

>>1197356
That's tiny and unbalanced. That's likely a sub panel or goes to one. What company was the electrician with?

>>1198624
Basically, it was the first standard that everyone was comfortable using. The whole american power generation and distribution system has been building up since then, with no world wars wrecking entire national power grids (euro grids being smaller than the state grids in some american states) and blowing up half the cities in between at the same time. There was no reason to change anything and the differences did not matter when everyone was using three light bulbs, one tiny electric range and one old-fashioned TV, MAX, in their homes. And there was the problem of certain other standards being incompatible, NTSC vs PAL, things like that.

And now it would require gutting every single house in the entire nation, plus tearing down and replacing the entire grid infrastructure, to make the big change-over. Since that is expected to cost more money than will ever exist, it is on the backburner.

>>1199377
>But it won't actually be safe unless he pulls the breaker off the bus to be sure.
stop trying to kill Op. Pulling the cover on a live box and yanking out breakers is foolish and dangerous. Unless your apartment is haunted you don't have to worry much about breakers turning themselves back on when they are off.

If you think you need to open the panel then it should be turned off entirely, at an upstream disconnect not the main breaker at the top of the panel if you have one.

>>1199649
>Pulling the cover on a live box and yanking out breakers is foolish and dangerous
Tell that to my entire trade. We always change breakers live. Part of hazing new guys is trying to scare them while they're doing it too, nobody has been buzzed in this region from it.

>>1199654
1910.333(a)(1)

"Deenergized parts." Live parts to which an employee may be exposed shall be deenergized before the employee works on or near them, unless the employer can demonstrate that deenergizing introduces additional or increased hazards or is infeasible due to equipment design or operational limitations. Live parts that operate at less than 50 volts to ground need not be deenergized if there will be no increased exposure to electrical burns or to explosion due to electric arcs.

and My entire trade, commercial electricians who don't get fired, don't do hot work without a hotwork writeup, safety brief, risk worksheet and everything else to cover everyone's ass. "It's faster" is not an acceptable reason for energized work under 1910, neither are "it was just for a minute" or "don't be a pussy, man".

Break the plane of the box when there are live wires inside = hot work = you are fired, these two guys are going to escort you out to the jobsite trailer where you can beg and plead and at the least end up sent to dig ditches on a site like a labor instead of electrical work.

btw: for the home gamers, this is a great reason to get a disconnect added, in a separate box between the meter and your distribution box.

>>1199663
Pussy ass shit. The stuff I work on has to be energized to diagnose, not much of a difference in difficulty between a hot swap breaker and what we do day in day out. If you stopped being so scared you'd realize it's not even that bad to get hit by 240. I'm more concerned with the actual work environment than the electrical 95% of the time

>>1199668
oh, no problem, lemme check the stacks of shit from OSHA.. "don't be so scared" "pussy ass shit" hmm.. hmm.. Not seeing that in the index, maybe those exemptions are filed somewhere else?

>>1199673
Osha was made for people scared of pussy ass shit

>>1199680
>Osha was made for people scared of pussy ass shit
"-is what he said, right before the fire. He will be remembered in our hearts forever as the jackass that got himself killed and cost everyone a lot of money and hassle removing all the gear that his charred remains ruined"

>>1199663
You know you can remove a breaker from the power bar and unscrew the lugs to change it out? Maybe the asshole who is responding to your comments is talking about something like that. Also, I have to work on compressors and capacitors as an hvac tech and that stuff is live while i'm checking amp draw. Obviously if I need to change a contactor I'm gonna deenergize it, but when I'm verifying that it's got the right voltage across legs and stuff like that it has to be running or I won't be able to read it. Honestly, It just looks like you and the asshole you're responding to aren't fully understanding each other, but you and the asshole are welcome to correct me.

Let me reiterate: that other guy is a complete asshole. He may be right, but he's mostly just an asshole.

>>1199685
Don't call me an asshole, toolbitch.
>>1199681
I've cut a strand to fit 6 gauge in a 25 amp breaker too, I bet you think that'll cause a fire too. There's a time and a place for safety regulations but some are just stupid.

>>1199685
I know some things have to be tested live. I didn't bother to include the full text from 1910 that goes on about acceptable reasons and exemptions, one notable one being the need to test something under load.

Unscrewing the buss lug and/or unclipping a breaker, depending on the type, is 100% working on an exposed, live circuit. You are entering the open box to do work that Can possibly be done with it turned off so it Must be done with it turned off.

>>1199689
>proud about being bad at his job
Hey man, you do you. I hope you never hurt anyone other than yourself with that attitude. Unfortunately we can't count on the fire being at your house and not threatening your neighbors.

>>1199691
Ok, let's say there's no reasonable way for me to access the mains breaker, it's 9 pm on saturday, i'm on call, and this thing needs to get running asap or i'm fired. Also i've got a sick wife and 3 kids. I've popped breakers off of the bar without electrocuting myself by handling the plastic part and not touching the lugs until it's off the bar. I've seen my supervisors do it at more than one company. If you are saying you do not do this, and will not do this then there is no work for you in this state.

>>1199691
Tell a customer or business during peak hours that you have to cut power and see their reaction, now try doing that multiple times a day. It's not realistic to do and not dangerous enough to care about.

As for being bad I'm one of the best around, I even fix sparky work all time. If you don't actually understand what's dangerous and why and instead have to rely on laws that only exist because absolutely retards who don't understand their trades subject matter then you're probably one of the retards that those laws were made for. I hope you're proud to be slowing everyone else down.

>>1199700
I'm just saying that it is unlawful for your employer to Let you do it and unlawful for you to do it. And unsafe.


Life is unsafe and if safety was really number one then everyone would be at home because, golly, you can get hurt on a job site. I'm saying you gotta do what you gotta do but you and your supervisor are in the wrong. And don't think they would back you up if you hurt yourself or damaged something while doing it either.

I guess I am lucky to work for a company that takes safety seriously. Not for lovey-dovey reasons but for money reasons. Every safety cert they can get, every accident avoided turns into cash that they don't have to spend on insurance and it turns into more jobs coming to the company because they have a better rating.

Do what you gotta do. Think about those kids though.

>>1199704
I understand danger, friend. And I know that rules-as-written can't always be followed. But "I don't wanna" isn't an excuse, nor is "it's easier this way". I'm sorry you don't work for a company that will look out for you and can't communicate with customers very well. That probably makes things very difficult but it does not change the law or make you safer.

>>1199707
You're a joke. I've worked for every type of HVAC company and only one gave a shit about safety since they are worth billions and they slowed us the fuck down left and right. Meanwhile most companies will fire you if you can't hot swap a breaker because no one has time for that shit. If you're honestly considered wear good gloves, there is no real safety hazard and no company wants a single bad review because the customer didn't understand that cutting power to the whole house means everything is going to turn off.

Meanwhile I see sparkies leaving open subpanels in attics left laying on the ceiling unmounted, undersized wire left and right, yet you guys always preach about safety, what a joke.

>>1199716
I can't speak for others. Especially home construction, those guys are creatures dredged up from a swamp somewhere.

You are making a great example for everyone's views on HVAC guys though. Right up there with plumbers as the #1 risk on job sites. Not a homerun they won't crush or conduit they won't drill into.

No one can protect you from yourself or your apparantly shitty workmates. Have fun with that.

Remember folks, 1-800-321-OSHA when you see >>1199716 headed into your attic or futzing around on your roof.

>>1199723
Sparkies and Carpenters fuck my electrical up, drill into my linesets, and step on my ductwork. It's you guys that have the bad reputation for bad attic skills and fucking everyone else's shit up,not us. We have plenty of scumbag and retards but at least my guys don't ruin everyone else's stuff like you do.

I'm not to salty though, when you job is just running and terminating wire you're probably not going to be flexible, slim, or handy.

>>1199730


For the viewers at home, please note that all trades hate pretty much all other trades. They, not us, are the problems on the site and they, not us, ruin the work everyone else has done.

I'm not here to argue with delusional AC installers who play around in breaker boxes and do hotwork without paperwork or gear because "everyone" does it that way.

Turn off the power to a breaker panel before working in it.
Technically if the cutoff is installed in the same box you have to make the cutoff farther upstream but swapping one breaker for another, as a homeowner, is not the worst thing you could possibly do and you probably won't die BUT if this is your job there are a whole host of laws regarding the work and situation you are in. OSHA is nannystate bullshit but it is also hundreds of lives saved and hundreds of thousands of crippling accidents prevented yearly.

do what thou wilt

>>1199738
man i just started writing a rant about how much I hate my customers because they can't understand how little of their bottom line is my paycheck. I work so hard and do everything I can and I still get people shitting down my throat every day. They want us to work miracles with nothing, and we're supposed to be greateful for the opportunity to work under these conditions dealing with live wires and shit working 80 hour weeks. I pulled up a spreadsheet of the cost breakdown of a grocery store. Do you know what maintenance costs are? .7%.

less than 1%.

Energy costs are 1.2%. That means all my blood sweat and tears is a rounding error next to the people working at the store I'm talking tos salary and benefits. I like my job but they can afford to pay us better. It's obnoxious how we get treated.

Beats working retail though, right guys?

>>1198080
There is no way OP is going to understand any of this haha

>>1199480
are you implying that 120v won't kill you? 120v is more than enough to kill you. God damn. Its actually more dangerous due to a higher current draw for the same power output.

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>>1199784
>Its actually more dangerous due to a higher current draw for the same power output.

>>1199784
>for the same power output
FYI, power is proportional to voltage squared. Doubling the voltage doubles the current through a given resistor, so it is much more likely to kill a person than 120V. 120V can kill a person pretty dead if water is involved, but dry skin has a high enough resistance to matter.

>>1199649
Because the principle breaker never gets exercised dumass so u can't trust it.

>>1199632
It's a ups module not a xfomer.

Also you don't bond the center tap of a single phase service as u mentioned above. Quite frankly you should just post your license.

I also said 3 phase and split phase are rare in residential but they have many names.

I am enjoying the derailment of this thread however.

>>1197263
This anon is wrong. The breaker would trip and you would have to reset it if this was the case

>>1199647
>unbalanced

Wut? Breakers alternate legs on both sides of the panel. Otherwise two pole breakers wouldn't work.

>>1197393
This.
Loose connection highly likely.

Gonna be annoying to find.

>>1197257
A lot of places (residential) only have 2 phases.
Same thing though. You could have a problem with one phase.

The loose connection thing is way more likely though. And it could be on ANY outlet or such, anywhere.

>>1200176
Let me clarify:
Any outlet on the same circuit (breaker).

>>1198624
Do you even have three phase? I thought most euro residential service was single phase, but tapped at 240v, because honestly why would a residence need more than like 100a at 240v or whatever?

>>1199873

Not that guy, but you are pants-on-head retarded, or a troll.

But to help ensure nobody accidentally kills themselves somehow going off this garbage:

>It's a ups module not a xfomer

This has nothing to do with anything. What point are you even trying to make? What kind of input it takes is irrelevant to what type of device it is.

A single-phase appliance will accept a hot and neutral, or, if 240V, two opposing hots (plus a ground, if applicable). A split-phase appliance will take two hots *and* the neutral. This is uncommon, because there's usually no reason to also take the 120V available from the neutral if you need and have 240V. Off the top of my head, the only thing I can think of in my house that does this is the jacuzzi. Some dryers do, too, for manufacturing reasons.

>Also you don't bond the center tap of a single phase service as u mentioned above.

Yes, you do. "Bonding" is just joining two conductors. The center tap (neutral) is required by code to be bonded to ground at the main service panel, and only at the main service panel. If it was just left floating, it could develop a potentially dangerous voltage relative to anything grounded.

>I also said 3 phase and split phase are rare in residential but they have many names.

3-phase is rare in residential. Split-phase is the standard service supplied in an overwhelming majority (99.9%+) of US homes. They do not "have many names". 3-phase is always 3-phase (though you can be more specific about its configuration). Single-phase and split-phase are often used interchangeably, though they aren't technically the same thing. You can get single/split off of a 3-phase transformer, but that doesn't even come close to making them the same thing.

I was referring to the fucked up nomenclature of the industry by referencing the power module of an Eaton 9170+ ups. It was an example of how the terms are used loosely everywhere you go.

Bonding is NOT joining two conductors as per intention of the code. Read the nfpa 70e or csa. It's ensuring conductive path of the components of an electrical system not meant to carry current normally is continuous and has a path to earth ground. It's meant to protect you from a hot chassis by tripping the overcurrent protection.

Your residential neutral is tied to ground by code so your breakers trip and you can't run on a ground fault. So is the ground, a redundant path not intended to carry current normally.

Fun fact, many places in the EU do not tie the neutral to earth ground which does make for a floating system. In their defense, they can't make a good ground being on alot of rock. Instead they use ground fault tripping instead of overcurrent during the event of a ground fault. With industrial services they use resonant grounding along side with neutral grounding systems which is considered absurd in North America but is quite effective in controlling alot of issues during ground fault in long transmission lines.

Call it spit phase single phase 2 phase idgaf its all the same shit. Switch from place to place and everyone has a slightly different glossary for the same fucking shit and everyone argues that their nomenclature, intentions and practices are correct.

>>1197254
Have you tried moving?

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>>1200202
The usual setting in my country (cz) is 3x230, with main breaker around 25 - 32 amps, which gives you ~ 75 - 100 A if evenly distributed across all sub - breakers.

The interphase 400V is usually accesible through 16A or 32A socket used for larger equipment, or through connection box behind the stove or boiler.

Of course, this goes for family houses, apartments typically have only single phases. The grid connecting it to nearest transformation station is 3F, though.

Pic related, sub - breakers that I've set up in my garage, and 3f socket for table grinder on the left.

>>1200239
>NFPA 70E
>code

Your earlier suggestion to pull a breaker off a bus to make it "safe" illustrates that you never read NFPA 70E.

Your babbling about bonding proves you've never read NFPA 70. It's right there in article 1, definitions. It's listed alphabetically. If you end up at the definition of weatherproofing, you went too far. Back up a few pages.

Your description about why "residential neutral" is tied to ground informs the rest of us that you don't understand AC theory and don't know what makes a breaker trip.Only one breaker in OP's entire breaker panel can detect a ground fault. The one with the red button. As long as the amperage is within the rated value, the other breakers will continue just fine with a ground fault. How are they supposed to detect a ground fault with just one wire coming out? You won't find the answer in your Eaton product catalog. But even if you could, you don't understand enough about electricity for it to make sense.

By the way, now that you gave a model name I can actually look up what you were talking about instead of playing the game "what's on the mind of some guy who knows nothing about electricity". If you were to read the user manual before driveling on about how they are using words wrong, you would find the UPS has two different inputs. It's on page 22 of the owner manual if you care to read along.

Universal and split phase. If you are connecting to split phase power, you get the... split phase model. If you are connecting to either phase to phase or phase to neutral, you buy the universal model. Super easy peasy. Even an electrical engineer can unders... oops sorry.

Oh, and on top of you being wrong about split phase being three phase, residential typically being something other than split phase or three phase, you also are completely wrong about two phase. Two phase has phase rotation, which split phase doesn't. This is why two phase and split phase is not the "same shit".

>>1200594
oops, article 100 is definitions.

>>1200594
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Electrical_bonding

Even wiki says you're wrong kek.

See that's the difference between me and you. You work with the tools. I work with the tools of the trade like you and the people who make those rules.

Then I apply those rules and help guys like you with the same interpretations of it. You seem to be familiar with the states. Try it across a few countries and tell me the same tune. Shit it's even interpreted differently across states.

But idgaf about what phases where and who called what young anon. OP has a suspect faulty breaker.

Taking out that breaker would let OP energize the panel and work with the lights on. He can then fuck with the circuit isolated and do all the shit you want him to either with a new breaker in there or the wire nutted off. It removes the uncertainty of the breaker being in operable condition which was in question from the beginning of this thread.

>>1200633
>no longer talking about codebook definition of bonding

>changing topic to wikipedia definition of "electrical bonding" which describes grounding.

That aside, you think the breaker is to blame? No wonder you traveled the globe. One diagnosis from you and you're out of a job and nobody in the area will even read your resume. You'd have to find another country.

Overcurrent devices don't reset unexpectedly. A failure like that anywhere in the world and that overcurrent device would be gone. Not unpopular, just gone. Kind of like you when you open your mouth at work. Except it won't be working in a different country.

>>1200712
Bwahaahahahaah I'm just tired of arguing with a little shit like you cause you'll never get nowhere.

My company is international. Which means I get to enjoy alot of different legislation. Unlike you who doesn't understand the industry from a hole in the ground. But hey you wanna argue about codes go for it. Bonding still ain't grounding - it's meant for an entirely different purpose, which you'll never understand. Wish I could post pdfs and school your sorry ass but you're not even worth it.

If you read above little apprentice his service would die and come back. It's rare but I've see thermo electric breakers do this. It's not a reset it's literally something broken in that molded case breaker. That why I wouldn't trust it.

But hey if you like to lead people to their deaths it's fine by me. I enjoy watching people like you charge forward eyes closed. Means you'll be dead or will lead someone to their deaths soon. Electricity is not forgiving.

I just fired a guy for the exact same thing a few days ago. Insisted bonding was grounding. Did it to a big DC machine. Cause so much downtime and damage I had to punt him. Sounded just like you.

Posting a problem of my own.

Every now and again when my refrigerator turns off, the mouse on my laptop stops responding for 1-2 seconds. When this happens, I hear the sound of plugging in/out a device into my windows 7 OS computer. Note that the laptop and refrigerator are not plugged in the same power strip - the laptop is plugged to a wall outlet. Maybe it has something to do with the electrical wiring of the room (sorry if not using the correct terminology), because I currently live in a eastern european university dorm.

Any ideas what might be the cause of this?

tl;dr
laptop mouse briefly stops working when fridge working cycle ends

>>1200909
Put a ups in front if it. It should filter the noise from your fridge.

The decoupling caps in your power supply are done.

>>1200911
Thanks for the tip! Rumor has it the whole building's electrical network hasn't been replaced since the 80's

>>1200917
Means nothing. It's the noise coming from that motor along with the fact your noise suppression in your laptop power supply is now bunk.

>>1197263
lol

Sounds like a phase problem, check where your house hooks up to the grid and if you can't find a problem call the utility company

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I deeply enjoy watching tradesmen fight. It's like my industry fighting, except with physical labor and risk.