I've had these saws for a few months now, picked them up

>>1177790
>saws cut things
no fucking shit sherlock
i wouldn't be seen dead with one, not because of anything to do with the tool, just the association it carries, people might think i'm a fucking knobend too.

I find the cheap western backsaws entirely adequate for most applications. Never have seen the need to spend huge sums of money on extra double fancy british dovetail saws or nipponese steel folded to infinity.

I think these pull style saws are fashionable now as most people have never tried a truly sharp and set push saw, just the 100 yo shit ones they've pulled out of their attic.
Good lord can a sharp properly set push saw make some serious sawdust and you feel comfortable either doing fine or rough work.
I don't feel pull saws are ever suitable for rough work as the muscle just isn't there.

>>1177877
Dunno, my man. I like to cut foods with a pulling motion. Nothing weeaboo about t. Just feels better. Maybe you've never hauled anything heavy. The back is stronger than the front, sempoo.

>>1177809
Samefag OP. You're limiting yourself for no reason.

>>1177790
Nice but can't sharpen and have to pay. Also flimsy unsupported steel so you better pray you never drop or get stuck and yank too hard by accident and bend it.

>>1177790

Nice Kershaw, OP. I have a Shark 12" pull saw and their detail/dovetail saw. I end up using them all the time when I'm just building things outside, great for small spaces and trimming things especially, or for small sized projects and crafts. I have a few old-school rip saws I plan on sharpening up sometime, but pull saws have been really enjoyable to use in general.

>>1177877

They cut faster and smoother than a push saw, have a narrow kerf and are also capable of acting as s back-saw.

They are no good for dovetails or ripping.

>>1178118
It's pretty decent, thanks.

So far they do what I need them too mostly, but like was otherwise said they're shit for ripping raw wood. They do fine on lumber. It'll be a cold day in hell when I cut any dovetails.

Shark seems to be the preferred brand in most reviews. That's probably what I'll get when these wear out.

>>1178130
>They are no good for dovetails or ripping.

Pull saws come in 3 varieties: crosscut, rip and universal. Crosscut is shit for ripping of course, and so is universal (don't believe anyone claiming otherwise, especially if they're trying to sell you a saw). You can tell the rip saws by the simple triangular tooth pattern (left side on OP's bigger saw).

Also, you need a fairly large tooth pattern for serious ripping (such as halving a whole board). Fine tooth patterns are just for dovetails and similar fine work on end grain. They do a damn good job for that but you'll course them if you attempt to use them for a longer cut.

As for bent blades: these are mainly a problem with double sided saws (Ryoba, again, OP's) big saw. If you get a single sided one (Kataba) you won't have the leverage to bend the blade, usually. Also, the blades are spring steel, they don't bend easily.

I was employed as a timber frame/historic preservation craftsman for several years. For precision cuts we almost exclusively used Japanese pull saws.

With a little practice, they are excellent tools.

Before you start sawing, measure and mark your cut (with a sharp ordinary pencil- throw away all your Carpenter pencils and never look back.) Ideally you should wrap your lines all the way around the piece of wood, but at minimum mark the top and one of the sides, whichever side you'll angle the saw down towards as you cut. For bonus points, use a flexible steel ruler and a sharp utility knife to cut your pencil lines. Position ruler with your left hand, and hold firmly. Make sure your thumb isn't hanging over the knife side of the ruler, and drag the knife towards yourself, basically letting the weight of the knife score the wood a couple times before you apply some pressure. You're not trying to cut the piece in half with the knife, 1/32" inch is plenty deep enough.

Scoring your cut layout lines serves two purposes. First, properly done, it assures a very precise, accurate, straight, THIN line. Second, particularly for cross cuts, slicing the wood fibers reduces tear out.

So, now you're ready to cut! Make sure you're using the right saw (crosscut or rip) because the wrong saw will do nothing but frustrate. Just like an American saw, you can use your thumb as a guide to starting the cut if you want. If your saw is sharp, you don't need much pressure downward, and NEVER push it forward thru the wood. Remember, it's a PULL saw. Sight the blade against your layout lines, and from your very first gentle pull to start the cut, hold the saw so it's in the same three dimensional plane as your cut. Pull the saw down a corner so you can follow the side and top marks simultaneously. Just keep pulling it thru both lines.

If you get into a cut and realize you're not on your lines like you should be, don't think you can fix it by twisting or flexing the blade,.

>>1179763
As a side note, most saws (and files, for that matter...I swear only about person in twenty uses a file correctly- as a one-way metal cutting tool) are designed to cut in one direction only, so the Japanese pull saws really aren't that much different.

>>1177790
I'd like them a hell of a lot more if you could sharpen them. They're great saws, really pleasant to cut with, but I'm not comfortable with owning a disposable tool.

>>1179763
so what do you do when you realize your sawing line isn't straight/on line?

>>1179785
They stay sharp much longer than western saws (talking an order of magnitude here) and replacement blades are not expensive.

You certainly can sharpen them yourself with a diamond card if you so choose but the complex tooth geometry makes this generally not wroth the effort.

I much prefer Japanese saws. The pull stroke tensions and straightens the blade as you cut. Which means it doesn't need thickness to reinforce the blade from buckling. Which makes the saw leave a much thinner kerf. Half the effort, twice the speed. I don't know why anyone would buy a western saw these days.

>>1179807
Sudoku

File: s-l2000.jpg (194KB, 1200x1600px) Image search: [Google]

194KB, 1200x1600px

>>1178107
>Nice but can't sharpen and have to pay.
The reason you can't sharpen most new/consumer pullsaws is because it's an absolute bitch to, requires special files, and there are barely any craftsmen who offer a full service of it even in Japan, much less outside it.

>Also flimsy unsupported steel so you better pray you never drop or get stuck and yank too hard by accident and bend it.

Anon it's much less likely to bend them irreversibly unless you have some kind of disability that makes you throw your arms out to one side. They're in tension when you use them and some are flexible on purpose for flush-cutting and other utility tasks. Couple with how some do have a spine.

>>1178130
>They are no good for dovetails or ripping.
>>1178206
>they're shit for ripping raw wood.

He has it correct, you need the correct saw: >>1178390
But even that is limited to smaller pieces. For ripping logs or just huge chunks of wood you need a maebiki which are not produced in the same inexpensive consumer models as the modern pullsaws.

However they are far easier to sharpen due to the comically large sub-1 TPI on them, so getting and cleaning up an old one is viable if you do work that requires it. They look vaguely like a giant fish or whale. Pic related.

>>1178107
>Nice but can't sharpen and have to pay.

You don't sharpen hacksaw blades either. All tools are to some degree consumable. They exist to produce a useful or profitable amount of work before discard.