why do no kitchen cabinet makers use solid wood or non wood alternatives

>>1120640
basically the cracass is by far the cheapest part of any kitchen remodel.
kitchen design and instal companies make a fuck ton of profit on these things.
the actually expensive parts are the doors, drawer fronts and the worktops.
i worked as a kitchen designer for the now defunct Space Kitchens here in the UK.
they would source real wood carcasses from Screwfix, a hardware retailer, and slam on around 1200% mark up, yeah 12 hundred percent, thats not a typo.
after realising just how much this company was ripping off clients i blew the whistle on them way back in 2007.

my best advice is have a look through hardware wholesalers/bulders merchants catalogs and cut out the middle man.

hell if you measure up your kitchen space i'd be more than happy to drop you a design or two and a load of ideas.

>>1120640
particle board is fucking garbage, but plywood is fine. i used to hate plywood in any type of furniture or home fixture, but in a lot of cases it is superior to solid wood.

There are companies that make high quality all wood construction cabinets.

Wood Mode being one of the most dominant in that field, followed by the Schrock Premiere.

Expect those to cost $20K just for the cabs

>>1120648
i was honestly consider doing it myself, i reckon it wouldn't be too hard, just time consuming to do. issue is the person i live with tells me the old youve never done it before story.

sure regarding kitchen space id appreciate it, forgive the sketch but this is the walls where red is a lack of wall and where you walk in basically and the blue boxes are the main space to use. the red doors lead to two bedrooms (rather odd layout of the house) with the left entrance way being the dining room

>>1120650
it mainly seems to be thick particle board. plywoods alright because its designed to hold weight but solid hardwoods will always be stronger

>>1120651
even that doesnt seem too bad double the price for amazing quality increases as well as visual appeal. benchtops are better sourced from specialists i think, especially for stone, marble, etc

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>>1120658
whoops forgot image

>>1120658
>i reckon it wouldn't be too hard, just time consuming to do
getting everything level and aligned can be a breeze, or it could be a nightmare

>>1120648

With Ikea the golden day of kitchen scammers are gone any way. Coming in with a kitchen design from the Ikea software is a really good way to start off any negotiation for a lower cost kitchen. I don't begrudge them making a few bucks if they are helpful and produce a good design to fit the space.

Particle board seems okay as long as there is no water damage and they don't use it for the shelves. It's the MDF doors which always seem delaminate. But if they last 10 years I'll be satisfied.

>>1120658

Solid wood limits your design options. For instance the classic mitred door frame with recessed centre panel is born out of necessity with solid wood. For painted cabinets, solid wood makes little sense.

$10,000 sounds pretty crazy to me.

There doesn't seem to be that much work or materials involved in building cabinets.

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>>1120640
>why doesn't anybody make tightly-fitted kitchen cabinets out of a material that never stops changing shape?
ffs anon, use your brain

>>1120798
My cabinets are made of oak. Not a asingle piece though. They haven't warped yet an they're 28 years old.

>>1120812
Oak cabs here too. Though the shelving is made out of plywood. All built-in. The downside is I need to replace the microwave which means either finding one that fits and redoing the face or make it a cabinet. Same with the refrigerator. all of the new ones are about 4" taller than the opening.

>>1120798
it doesnt even look or feel of quality though. i get if you want quality you have to go industrial metal and all but i feel some quality should be attainable at the consumer level

>>1120821
Is there no way to fix the microwave?

You could always search ebay for one of similar age. People rip perfectly functional appliances out of old kitchens all the time.

>>1120896
Microwaves actually lose power with age. We had a microwave from 1971. It still worked, you just had to increase any cook time listed by 40% if you wanted it cooked right. It still consumed the same amount of power, it just loses efficiency the more it is used. There's a test you can do with bringing a cup of water to a boil to calculate the actual wattage of your microwave and see how much it has lost over its life.

>>1120760

$10000 may sound pretty crazy, but theres quite a bit of work involved in building a kitchen...granted that it's mostly pretty straight forward.
Biggist issues most don't understand, is the size of a shop required to do the work, and the tools/equipement required. Yes, theres alot of repetative tasks involved, but you need quite large, expencive machinery to get the shit done in a reasonable amount of time.

Sliding table saw, edgebander, hingeboring machines don't come cheap, and I've never seen any at a garage sale...

Other tools, like band saws, biscuit joiners, routers, trimmers, nail guns, compressors, chopsaws...I ended up with two or three, so I have 'shop' stuff, and 'install' stuff...I have a few dollars in this shit too...

Most of the materials I purchase are from 'closed dealer's'...they sell to me cause I'm a fabricator, they don't do retail...I also sometimes have minimums to buy...You may only need 6 or 8 of one item...I have to buy a box of 12...

I have heat and hydro to cover, insurance on the shop and stock, I have to provide storage for kitchens I have built, and have yet to install...

I have a finishing room...separate room in the shop, with hvlp pump sprayers...sanding sealer is $200 for 5 gal...Lacquer a little more...drying racks for the doors and finished cab ends, fridge panels, etc...

Lots and lots of stuff...it all makes the job a little smoother, not really easier...

Can it be done by your buddy in his garage? Sure...but it won't look anything as proffessional as mine do...and I always warrantied mine...

Good luck!

>>1120896
Can't get parts for it anymore.
It was installed back in the early 80's.
Built like a tank tho. I was able to replace the bronze bushing for the fan assembly.
Plus newer microwaves are so much better as far as power, rotating table, etc.

I just redid my kitchen do to a leaky pipe and weeklong vacation. You can get plywood sided boxes and real wood fronts. Kraftmaid is a mid tier supplier that does that. Even most RTA cabinets are all wood with plywood sides and shelves. The original cabinets I had were from the fifties with plywood sides and fronts were painted poplar and custom made for the house. It has been a real long time since hardwood has been used for the sides and I doubt any manufacturer does not wood it be a improvement over plywood. I would never use the cabinets that have particle board sides. All it would take is a leaky dishwasher left out overnight and all types of fuck. Yeah you could do an insurance claim but a huge pain in the ass and I don't know if that would be covered. The Ikea cabinets maybe because they stand on plastic feet and wouldn't soak in it all night.

>>1120658
>plywoods alright because its designed to hold weight but solid hardwoods will always be stronger

Nope. For any given thickness, nearly any ply will be stronger than most solid woods.

Sure, you could pick the weakest junkiest ply and compare it to quartersawn white oak, but stuff made of medium- to high-quality ply with a nice veneer is better in many ways than solid wood. (I assume here competent woodworking that will edge-band the ply and whatnot.)

>>1120908
>you need quite large, expencive machinery to get the shit done in a reasonable amount of time.

>Sliding table saw, edgebander, hingeboring machines don't come cheap, and I've never seen any at a garage sale...

You do not "need" any of that. They just make it easier. They don't even make it THAT much faster; it's just that, if you're charging $10,000+ for a few hundred dollars in wood and a few days of labor, you can afford the convenience.


Almost any competent woodworker can crank out a kitchen's worth of nice cabinets in a few days, max (minus, perhaps, finishing), using little other than a table saw and a router. That's not to say it's all that easy, as you do need to at least have some know-how specific to finer woodwoorking. But, shit, when you're talking $10k+, you could afford some nice tools, completely fuck it up multiple times, take two weeks unpaid leave from work to do all this, and you'd STILL come out ahead. Unless you get paid well enough that you don't even need to wonder if it's worth your time, of course.

>>1121951

Messing up say 100 square foot of oak each time would run you 1k$, so don't fuck it up too many times.

>>1121951
This. Hinge boring jigs are a thing and edge banding can be done with clamps or a clothing iron, and trimmed with a plane or router.

The table saw is pretty useful but I've seen cabinets and doors cut on site using just a track saw

>>1121951

Well, get to it then as I guess you figure you'll be rolling in cash for a few days work...

Btw, best of luck with that...I'll be hearing from your clients shortly to fix your fuckups...

>>1121951
you known i actually reckon i could do it myself. i havent got any of the stuff for woodwork (but ive used it in the past). it would be cheaper to buy everything and the wood would it not?

>>1122110
Watch out for the Dunning-Kruger effect.

>>1120640

Are you buying as a trader or buying as a consumer. I have worked in the trade and general consumers get fucked. I live in the UK but it seems to be the same situation you are having, i can get a 1000mm floor / wall unit for sub £100. they tack on loads of extra ££££ because they know people expect a kitchen to be expensive even though the base materials used to construct are shit. I think if I had the carpentry knowledge I could buy timber from a timber merchant and build my own kitchen that would be less money, but use much higher quality materials.

>>1120640
I used to be a project manager for a high end kitchen remodeler. There are all kinds of options for materials. Good casework is typically furniture grade 3/4in. ply, but even the high end lines do use MDF and particle board for some things. Solid wood is only used for faceframes, door stiles/rails, raised door/drawer panels, and drawerboxes.

The best cabinetry I ever worked with was Premier Custom Built (premiercb.com).
>3/4in. furniture grade ply doweled and screwed frameless construction
>option to use solid faceframes applied to frameless construction - stronger than traditional faceframe construction
>easier to install than shit cabinets because the entire fucking back is 3/4 instead of having a tiny hanging rail
There are other high end companies (Snaidero, SieMatic) that use more non-wood products - aluminum, HPL, plastics.

>>1120651
We used to do WoodMode/Brookhaven too. I toured the factory years ago. Pretty impressive operation.

For a high end kichen, the markup is typically 100% on cabinetry, and no additional design fees are charged.

Particle board is actually a good material choice for most kitchens. Sure, if you want it to last 20 years go with wood, but most people remodel their houses every few years and in that case wood will be a waste of money when cheaper, lighter material is available and will last for that long.

>>1122110

Only if your time is free.

Also if you live with someone they might slightly resent you after having a disaster area for weeks instead of pros ramming the kitchen into place in one or two days.

>>1122151

In the UK you had 'skilled' craftsmen ripping people off. Then there was a surge of Polish workers who worked cheaper and didn't try to rip people off so they couldn't get away with doing that shit any more.

Now they just use pre-fab shit so they can do work with minimal effort.

That said, shop around in the UK and you can get solid wood but it's still a 100% premium over fake stuff.

>>1122198
You have to be trolling. 2/10 for making me reply.