if i were to buy a cheap welder from Harbor Freight for practicing,

>>1047374
Welder here.
Buy a cheap arc set & cheap rods & fool around with rusty, damp & painted bits of steel.
I gave £40 for my chinese pos. It will lay down a single 3.2 rod reasonably well.
The next rod will trip out the machine for 10 minutes, until it cools down a bit.

Buddha provides, so before you know it you'll have use of a 1930's oil cooled land anchor that will run from January til October without getting past mildly warm. After suffering the utter bullshit that is off-brand welders for a while, you'll become one with the arc & realise 90% of being a 'welder' is muscle memory & common sense.

If you're looking for a Cheap MiG set then it's a real gamble imo. All those wheels, hoses & moving parts can try the patience of a saint when they aint working right. (Most of the time.)

Despite being a Plater Welder in Sheffield, UK for 15 years I've never used FCAW. One only sees it in pressure vessels & off shore work & the like. I usually do a bit of tacking up with low hydrogen rods & back heel it to the Polish lads who sweat for me.

TL;DR
Go for it, but get ready to be on the cusp of rage quit all day long.

Na Op, the harbor freight welders are fine for learning, just note that they all have like a 20% duty cycle

>>1047397
Oh also, go with the 90 amp not the 70 amp arc/stick welder, or maybe even go with the 90 flux welder (though most welders start with stick)

>>1047399
can i have a reason for avoiding 70 amp because HF has a 70 amp arc welder for like $80.

>>1047388
besides electrodes and welder what else should i buy? I already have a stiff wire brush and there may be an old welders mask laying around the house somewhere. Do i absolutely need thick leather gloves?

>>1047400
I bought a 70 amp and while I get a lot done with it, it can't handle bigger than 1/8" sticks very well (technically it can do the 3/16 but it's very hard to get the spark going)

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I didn't even buy a welder, I just took the car batteries from my cars and started practicing arc welding with it. Get the auto darkening helmet from Harbor Freight though, that one is good and there's a 25% off coupon that's valid right now on the coupon sites.

>>1047400
The harbor freight gloves are good, but often I go without gloves unless I'm welding for a long time. Additionally, you'll want an auto darkening mask, unless you have multiple halogen lights to absolutely flood what your welding with light

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>>1047402

>>1047402
> killing your car battery

My hobo freight welder caught fire while using it..

Power switch was the failure on mine

>>1047415
Let me guess, you surpassed the 20% duty cycle?

>>1047416
please explain this duty cycle to a noob.

>>1047417
Duty cycle is how much you use it versus how much you dont.
i.e. you weld for 25 seconds. let it stand for 75 seconds. and so on. It's essentially a cooldown since everything in the device is driven too hard and is incapable of sustaining constant use.

>>1047426
oh shit thanks anon you prolly saved me from death.

>>1047426
>>1047417
Generally a duty cycle is a 10 minute interval

A 20% duty cycle means you can run it for 2 minutes straight for 8 minutes you have to let it cool down

For any period Less than 10minutes use the same 20%

Never exceed the 10 minute period though

>>1047428
>>1047427
Btw, you will never find a welder that can run on 120VAC that has a duty cycle grater than 30%

(Simply because a welder at 120 doesn't have enough juice for a big hefty fan left over

>>1047374

The HF 90AMP welder is a perfectly fine machine to learn on. I used one for about 3 years and it did a nice job on tubing, thin sheet, regular angle iron, etc. No way to do something approaching 1/4", but enough power to learn.

No 110V welder is going to be able to do plate or anything thick. However, if you hone your skills and learn to do multi-pass welds with a good root, you should eventually be able to do up to 1/4".

It just takes FOREVER to do big projects with the HF welder since is has such a light duty cycle. Also you HAVE to plug it into a 20 amp receptacle... a 15 AMP one will trip the breaker if you try to run on high.

>>1047451

Forgot to add: I upgraded to a Hobart 140 and it is awesome. Still just 120V, but a better duty cycle and a much smoother delivery of the current, so fewer spatters and much nicer welds. It was $350 versus the $89 for the Harbor Freight one.

It came with a full gas capability, but I almost always use flux core now that I know how to do it properly. Flux core burns just a BIT hotter and gives better penetration, but the trade-off is the splatter. However, splatter is manageable once you have practiced for a while.

>>1047451
Are you referring to the 90 amp stick or the 90 amp flux?

>>1047416
>20% duty cycle
>>1047429
>duty cycle grater than 30%

Duty cycle is arc time per ten minutes AT A PARTICULAR OUTPUT. Only large wirefeed machines intended for industrial use have a 100% duty cycle at 100% output. All other machines have some smaller duty cycle at max output, and the duty cycle increases as output decreases. A "decent" welder will typically have a 100% duty cycle around the middle of its output range, but the bottom-end Harbor Freight stuff probably doesn't even at its minimum output.

And get the larger welder, OP. 20A can make big difference at that range, and the larger machine will have a higher duty cycle at any given output. Actually, for a first-time stick machine, I'd suggest a machine that maxes your electrical supply. My first machine was a 120A stick box comparable in quality to Harbor Freight, and while it could only weld for a few seconds at 100A before tripping the breaker, it was nice to have the extra room if needed, and the machine's duty cycle was higher than the 20A circuit breaker's, so I was able to get the most out of the supply I had (at least until I got an inverter machine that can put out 150A from 120V-20A).

noob here, how hard is welding?

I have access to a small "shop" with an arc welder and a few other tools like saw and shit, but I've never welded before.


I want to build a cargo rack for my motorcycle, like a simple rectangular grid sort of thing, then cut flat brackets out of sheet metal for the sides. Thinking square stock would be good, but steel will be heavy... Would it be better to use like solid round stock at a much smaller diameter?


What about aluminum? What sort of tools would I need for that?


Or am I better off ghetto rigging it with like one of those plastic trays from a grocery store (like the milk crate but flat) and some zip ties?
I'd like to learn to weld anyway though, to have another useful skill.

>>1047487
Beginner welding is on carbon steel, stainless steel is much harder and aluminum requires a tig which will take years to master

>>1047473
Op likely has no access to a 240vac I'm his home so 90 will be the highest he can find likely

Also the harbor freight ones have only a couple output settings (the 70 amp one he wanted only has 2 settings)

>>1047487
But I suggest getting some carbon steel, likely some very thin stuff and some expanded mesh and you can make a fairly light piece, then coat the entire thing in a thick layer of paint so it won't rust

Everything touching your bike should have leather between it and the bike as well


Remember to grind the joints as well to inspect penetration

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>>1047487
>how hard is welding?
It's like driving. Sometimes you cruise down an empty street. Sometimes it's icy. Sometimes you have to deal with rush hour traffic in a construction zone. Every once in a while you might have to drive on two wheels. It comes down to what you're doing and how familiar you are with it. Generally, basic MIG is the easiest, probably followed by stick, then TIG, then oxyfuel. The control of TIG and oxyfuel mean that they may handle tricky situations better than MIG and stick (x-ray perfect pipe welds are pretty hard with MIG and stick). For "trick" welds like putting a fillet on the inaccessible side of a joint, I'd use TIG over anything else.

>Would it be better
Depends on the specific dimensions involved, the design of the rack, the load to carry, and the adventurousness of your riding habits.

>What about aluminum?
Lighter but harder to weld (especially to weld well). Less mechanically durable but more corrosion resistant, unless compared to stainless. More expensive. Use saws, files, and sandpaper-based abrasives instead of hard stone grinding/cutting wheels (aluminum clogs these). Needs welder specifically capable of welding aluminum.

>>1047492
>stainless steel is much harder
Not at all. The lighter oxidation actually makes it easier to control the puddle. You just have to purge any areas with penetration.

>aluminum requires a tig
Or stick with aluminum rods. Or oxyfuel. Or MIG.

>which will take years to master
To "master" maybe, but basic TIG aluminum competence is doable in a few dozen hours of practice if you have good hand-eye coordination.

>>1047496
>Op likely has no access to a 240vac I'm his home so 90 will be the highest he can find likely
Did you miss the part where I ran the 120A welder on 120V? You just run it below max capacity, and in short sections. And my inverter welder can indeed run stick at 150A from a regular 120V outlet without tripping the breaker. A cheap transformer welder won't. Mine can trip a 20A breaker at maybe 75A.

>a couple output settings
I forgot that there are machines this crappy. Forget that one, OP, and get one with a continuous range.

>>>1047499
>Remember to grind the joints as well to inspect penetration
DON'T do this in actual projects. Do this to practice pieces as you learn.

thanks for all the posts homies.
Ima stop at the HF tomorrow after work.

>>1047795
Visit weldingweb and the Miller forums for info.

Miller has good free training videos too.

>>1047795
i dont think that 25% coupon works on welders

>>1047401
That's where I started, and I haven't bothered with going beyond 1/8" sticks. Most of the time I'm using thinner sticks for practice little trinkets.

>>1047403
No, their gloves suck. I melted through a pair kind of quick. I bought a much better pair from Menards. I'm sure any place out there has better gloves than HF. Definitely get the auto-shade mask.

>>1047487
I built a cargo rack for my bicycle from steel for a couple reasons. I wanted a custom rack to mount two ammo cans to, and because I'm a year into arc welding with the 70 amp HF welder. It went really well. I used angle bar steel for the top frame, and flat bar for the supports, mounts in 3 places on both sides. With the ammo cans bolted on, quite strong. I pop riveted aluminum diamond plate to the top with a bent down overhang at the back for a fender.

I would suggest tube stock, round or square, and hammer the end flat where it bolts to the motorcycle, if you're concerned about strength and rigidity.

>>1048238
What gloves diff you buy? The hf welding gloves are all leather gloves, how the fuck do you melt leather?

>>1047492
>stainless steel is much harder and aluminum requires a tig which will take years to master
Wrong and wrong.
Don't give advice when you don't know shit.

>>1047492
>stainless steel is much harder and aluminum requires a tig

various stainless steel electrodes
E4043 aluminum electrodes
stick welder

>>1048297
I thought they were leather too when I bought them. Labeled as Premium Welding Gloves, for a mere $5. They melted, whatever material they really were. The gloves I got from Menards is true leather and cost only $8.

What can I expect to experience through 220v mains and a 30-40a breaker depending on which socket I use?

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4 months into my apprenticeship how's my welds looking? I just quit last week

Breddy gud but there's kind of a lot of spatter m80

>>1048749
That's galvanised with co2 we usually don't clean our steel before welding ether pretty glad to have left finding it hard to get another job in the trade though

>>1048756
Where are you located?

>>1048759
West stralia mining booms gone not a lot of work here anymore

>>1048760
That's a shame, I was recently considering trying to immigrate to Australia before I saw that work was scarce for welders.
We're not even done with trade school and there are shops in the area calling almost begging us to come work for them.

Amateur blacksmith here, I'm looking to learn a bit of welding myself, mostly to facilitate my Blacksmithing. You know, welding pieces together to form a billet for forge welding, forging a rod to a smaller piece so I don't have to use tongs, maybe even welding together forged pieces to make something bigger, but not really using welding as an end to itself.

Where should I start?

>>1048582
>>1048421
How is stainless not harder than carbon? I can make gorgeous carbon welds all day on any welder, when I move to stainless stick is shit trying to spark, mig is easy, and flux core is absolute shit

Also aluminum requires a tig unless you want shit welds that will never be xray prefect, sorry for not qualifying. And while some people can master tig in a week, most people will take years to have perfect control over a tig
>>1048582

Read it again, I didn't claim stainless requires a tig, I claimed it's harder than carbon, which it is

Do you guys not grind your carbon before welding or something because if you think it's as hard as stainless you must just be awful with carbon

>>1048807
Stick welding

>>1048807
Definitely stick welding would be good for you. Low entry cost and very suitable for the welding on decently thick and probably dirty/scaled steel you would be using. If you're smithing it into shape anyway then no point doing precise TIG. MIG/fluxcore could be "easier" and would weld faster but that's hardly that I think you'll need and it's still less "robust" than stick.

>>1048821
Wrong on all counts again

>>1048829
Ok, please school me then, how am I wrong

>>1048821
Read what you wrote.

Does that really sound like something important to someone going to buy a Harbor Freight welder?

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>>1048744
More power / Less wire.
Looks a little cold, looks a little bumpy. Try back-stepping a little rather than weave if you have paint to burn out.
I find a slight "10 o clock - 3 o clock motion (Travelling right) minimises coldlap while keeping ya legs even & the throat smooth.

It's good practice to always weld out of or around the corner.
Having 3 runs terminate all in the same place means 3x the stress right?

If you've only been at it 4 months then I'm sure you'll be fine.
It doesn't hurt to blob the ends of your plates before you start either. Or at least flick back a bit to avoid that ugly start & low spot you have there.

Pic related was all positional. 3 run fillet, a fillet, maybe a 2 run vertical & a butt that was later ground back.
Tis a lifting arrangement for some mobile sub-station thing. 20-odd tons in the end, before all the elastic trickery was installed.

>>1048839
Someone buying a harbor freight welder won't be able to use aluminum sticks (Most of them are ac and the dc ones are all dcen or too weak in the first place to break through the oxide layer)

Stainless likely will also be near impossible if they go with the 70 amp simply because they don't make stainless sticks in 1/16 (at least none I've found)

So your point is still moot, they'll only be able to use carbon anyway

>>1048846
Who told you he wanted to weld stainless or aluminum?

He asked about an apple and you're telling him it won't taste as good as an orange.

>>1048847
He did you retard

Follow the quote chain, three original comment wasn't Op

See here:
>>1047487
That is who the original comment was for

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>>1048842
Cheers mate this was after switching to a much thicker wire Iv never used usually use loops only weave on tig

just gonna hijack slightly. What gloves do you guys recommend? The ones that work gives me are fucking useless. Melted the fingers on my left hand so badly that they're bent backwards.

Thick as fuck stick welding gloves, but am running a process with 600amp dual shielded flux at the moment, so just need something more.

>>1048858
I'm only a few weeks into welding, but I'd say you need to work on laying a consistent bead.

Did you do both the right and left beads? The one on the right looks pretty schmiko, whilst the left... no so much.

>>1048877
Yeah that's tig vertical up this was a pass

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>>1048849
>He did you retard
Yes, I'm a retard. Mostly functional, but still...

>See here:
>>>1047487
>That is who the original comment was for

I read it seventeen times and couldn't find stainless anywhere in that post.
I concede he did ask about aluminum.
He also said he had access to a welder (and other tools in a shop)
Neither of us (nor probably he) knows what kind of 'arc welder' it is.
It could well be a Lincoln or Hobart with DC output.

>>1048821
>aluminum requires a tig unless you want shit welds that will never be xray prefect
I'm sure that's important for a bike rack.

I've already admitted to being retarded. - I'm done.

>>1048821
>How is stainless not harder than carbon?
The puddle is much clearer when welding stainless. I stick weld stainless steel a lot too and I never have any issues, your parameters must be fucked.

>Also aluminum requires a tig unless you want shit welds that will never be xray prefect
A well set aluminum MIG makes excellent welds.

>>1048821
>Also aluminum requires a tig unless
>unless
Oh look, moving goalposts.

>>1048950
Sorry, I was harsh, mostly upset because it was 2 am and I was staying awake to argue with people instead of sleeping in preparation for my trip to the great Smokey mountains today

>>1048972
>A well set aluminum MIG makes excellent welds.

Including aluminum armored fighting vehicles (yes, aluminum armor works though any AFV can be killed and melty ones make for bad press) and combat ships.

Ausfags etc often successfully use a short conventional MIG gun instead of a spool or push-pull gun.

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>>1047374
This one is probably better than HF
http://www.northerntool.com/shop/tools/product_200653688_200653688
I got the stick welder in the pic reconditioned for $99 also. It works very well.

>>1047388
this is not half bad advice.
You buy from HF to decide if this is a tool you want. Right at the point the answer is 'yes, this has promise', the HF version will fucking explode all over your project.
By then, though, you will have learned how to get shit dome with the crappiest possible tool, It's like getting your fucking scuba license in Lake Erie.
Not only will you know what you're doing, and every other tool will feel like walking in the park, you'll be hooked in to knowing exactly what you need, and how to get it cheap.
Indeed, Buddha provides.

>>1048688
Enough power to run most home welders without trouble. Naturally, your experience will depend on the machine.

>>1048807
Stick. A basic but decent-powered machine (120A at least, some nicer ones can give 150 from 120V). Practice with both 6011 (root passes and dirty metal) and 7018 (where strength/toughness is important) rods, though 6013 may be useful if you need to work on thin stuff. Keep in mind that welding will anneal the steel by the weld and disrupt the forged crystal structure. And that the metal deposited by mild steel rods is not hardenable.

>>1048858
See the dimples? That means it's not wetting into the sides as well as it should. Try a bit hotter or smaller weaves. And consistency, of course. You know those pretty TIG fillet welds you sometimes see posted? Try to do that. Hint: higher amps and faster travel. Make sure your electrode is clean.

wait for one on craigslist, ive got 3 badass ones that are fairly pricey but a huge bang for your buck

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>>1048877
>What gloves do you guys recommend?
For stick and mig I use Tillman 875, which is just the fancy version of the 850. Elk skin which is resistant to shrinking and warping when exposed to heat. Insulated back but unlined palm which makes for great tactile feel.
For tig I use revco 25d. Sexy as fuck deer skin with an insulated drag patch on the bottom of the glove so you can rest your hand on what you're welding without frying.
A buddy of mine is a flux core welder and he wears a drivers glove on his right hand and cheap ass cowhide on his left with a aluminized glove pad.

>>1047467
>>1047451

I had the 90 amp flux core model. That's the one I was referring to in my original post... I haven't used their 110V stick unit, just the larger 220v one, and it was fine as well (but a low duty cycle.)

>>1047409
>Not having three.

>>1050058
>wait for one on craigslist, ive got 3 badass ones that are fairly pricey but a huge bang for your buck

Craigslist and liquidation auctions rock. Weldingweb has many threads on how to score deals. I look up the factory manuals to see if a machine will run off single phase because sellers sometimes don't know and three phase welders often sell for less.

I scored a Miller 340 AB/P (not 330) for 250 bucks because an accessory box on the side had a three phase sticker on it. Sweet arc, weighs 1300 lbs but I don't go jogging with it. Also got a fuckton of cylinders (see Weldingweb threads on those too, I have over 4000 posts there), torches, a couple of Hobart suitcase feeders and more.

>>1050375
I think that anon's point is that car batteries are not made for deep discharges. They are built to provide a high brief current to start the engine, then promptly recharge. Running them down (as you likely would using them to weld) causes the plates to react to the point that they don't return to a good state on recharging, which permanently reduces the battery's charge capacity.

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>>1050375
>being redundant
>x 3

>>1050691
>>1047409
Yeah, I'm pretty sure it would be more expensive to replace 3 cheapshit car batteries than to buy one cheapshit welder. I mean, this is a neat idea for MUH POCOLIPS PREPPING if you find yourself in a situation where you can just go around to abandoned vehicles and harvest batteries all day. Otherwise this is stupid.

>>1051998
Actually, one viable use of using vehicle batteries to weld is emergency field repairs when out in the sticks with friends. If your four-wheeler's suspension breaks a mile from the nearest road, wiring some batteries together to weld might get it back to civilization under its own power.

But yes. Welding with car batteries is stupid outside of extremely specific niche cases.