The average life expectancy for a modern cargo container ship

>>1022850
http://boards.straightdope.com/sdmb/archive/index.php/t-557909.html

>>1022850
Just so you know
you can't drop anchor in the middle of the ocean.

Maintenance would require you to pressure wash the underside of the ship to remove all the nasty stuff that can attach itself to the ship.

You can do all this without a dry dock but you'll need a powerful pressure washer, a really long hose. Also a good divers suit and oxygen tanks.

Other things you'll need are zinc "suicide" plates so they can take the electrical corrosion instead of the hull.

>>1022861
This looks great, I'm reading through it now. Thanks!
>>1022865
I've heard there are paint jobs that are either poisonous, slick, or annoying somehow which help keep barnacles, etc off your vessel. I tried googling "zinc 'suicide' plates" and came up with nothing. Care to elaborate?

>>1022872
Try sacrificial anode.
And yeah, there are paints which keep barnacles away (anti-fouling paint), but they won't last forever.

It would be better to just build a new craft out of something more long term like foamed concrete. Or some such. Given the price of a container ship it would be better to just not larp Waterworld in the middle of the Atlantic. And build an actual habitat.

Since this is the "diy permanent floating base in the middle of the ocean" thread, how could such a thing be actually built with minimal manpower?

Buy a ship and anchor somewhere? An overbuilt oil rig/station? Or collect loads of tree and plant materials and make a giant floating forest?

>>1022896
Perhaps if you started with an oil rig and expanded it. My worry with a vanilla rig versus a ship would be that corrosion would occur more swiftly and the rig would become rapidly unsafe as it lost structural integrity. Contrasted with a slowly sinking ship.
>>1022885
Used cargo container/tanker/other industrial/heavy ships can be had fairly cheap i.e. 500k+ versus designing and constructing a wholly new and unique island/seaworthy item.

I'll just leave these here:

http://www.modestoradiomuseum.org/radio%20caroline.html

http://www.sealandgov.org/

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Yellow_Fleet

Trapped on the Great Bitter Lake for 8 sears.
Inly the German vessels could move on their own once the blickade was lifted.

>>1023055
Sailors are top bros.

> In October 1967 the officers and crews of all fourteen ships met on the Melampus to found the "Great Bitter Lake Association" which provided mutual support. In the time to come, the crew members regularly met on board their ships, organized social events, founded a yachting club and held the "Bitter Lake Olympic Games" to complement the 1968 Summer Olympics in Mexico City. Life boat races were arranged and soccer games were played on the largest ship the MS Port Invercargill while church services were held on the West German motorship Nordwind and movies were shown on the Bulgarian freighter Vasil Levsky.[2] The Swedish Killara had a pool.[3]

>>1022900
>Used cargo container/tanker/other industrial/heavy ships can be had fairly cheap i.e. 500k+ versus designing and constructing a wholly new and unique island/seaworthy item.

A used ship is going to have a significantly shorter lifespan.

>>1022850
>without repainting or maintenance
not even 5 years

The average life expectancy is based on its working life. Up to the point where it becomes cost ineffective to maintain.

That considers more than just the hull.

If you are lucky and the coat of paint holds up well the hull can float for a century.

Though that all depends on factors that one cannot predict. You will most likely need to drydock it and repaint it and weld in new steel from time to time.

We have pulled steel boats out of the water that the keels fall out of due to being weakened by corrosion and getting crushed in the sling. We just weld in a new keel, couple coats of paint, anti-fowling and throw them back in.

A modern floating rig has automated ballasts and requires controllers to keep them upright. They have a myriad of sensors, motors, systems and staff members dedicated to monitoring and maintenance.

There is also no such thing as a slowly sinking ship. Springing a leak is not slowly sinking it is the sign of an impending catastrophe.

Everyone in this thread and the straightdope thread seem to have wildly varying opinions on how long a hull will float. I'm unsure what to make of this but perhaps this will be made clearer at some point in the future.
>>1023113
How realistic is a floating dry dock? I know they exist but I'm not sure how much they cost or whether this is a viable maintenance option.

>>1023137

http://horizonship.com/ship-category/barges-for-sale/floating-dry-docks-for-sale/

Seems like you could just charge to use it

>>1023155
>worse than ebay
>click on the cheapest?
>some fucker already sniped it

>>1023137

How long a hull will float is not a matter of opinion, but the initial quality of the hull and the conditions it will face.

Drag it across a rocky shoal and then it's rate of deterioration increase significantly. Whether sinking that day or in the next couple of years due to exposed steel.

A floating dry dock:

- Will limit your ship's size and tonnage
- Will increase maintenance costs
- You will need to find a way to get the drydock to a drydock for maintenance.

>>1023169
Perhaps you are right and all of these varied statements on the length of time a hull will float for is based on different input parameters.
>>1023155
>>1023160
>>1023169
How about a "waterworld station" based on a dry dock? Pros/cons versus a ship or oil rig?

>>1023113
Unrelated question.

Is there good money in marine fabrication/welding?

Last year I met a guy at a car show.
He runs a 10 man marine welding outfit.

He has three classic Ferraris, an E Type Jaguar and half a dozen other cars he bought as investments so he must me making good money.

>>1023173
What about artificial islands? Get a bunch of buoyant trash in nets, plywood on top, then add dirt and plants. One crazy hippie guy already did it iirc
>>1023402
Welding in general and marine/underwater welding is like the place to go when you want to make shittons of money in a trade. Downside is you need experience and training and it can be dangerous work with long hours.

>>1023402
>Is there good money in marine fabrication/welding?

tons. because its one of the most dangerous welding jobs on the planet.

>>1023169
>You will need to find a way to get the drydock to a drydock for maintenance.
have 2 floating drydocks, simple

why don't they coat boats hulls in plastic instead of paint?

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How about concrete instead of steel?
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Concrete_ship

The oldest concrete ships still afloat (some built during WW-1) are the Powell River breakwater ships:
http://www.concreteships.org/ships/powellriver/
But note that this is freshwater use, not oceanic.
Weather on the Powell River is milder than you'd get in the open ocean, and there may be less destructive organisms present too (barnacles).

>>1022850

I saw Waterworld, the movie supposedly takes place in the year 2500, so a ship can last at least 500 years.

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>clears throat noisily

>>1023695

>grabs throat
>back the fuck off?!

>>1023695
The S.S. San Pasqual: A Brief History:
>Built 1920 (concrete oil tanker)
>fuXored in Storm 1921 - spends next three years in dock
>bought and used as floaing sugarcane storage, Santiago 1924-33
>sinks
>raised and ran aground off Cuba, where it remains, 1933 - 2016.

maybe stretching it a bit, using that fucker as example of seaworthy longevity of concrete boats.. I've spent longer afloat in the bath than that tub ever did on actual ocean.

>>1023769
"Run aground off cuba" still means in water deeper than I'd swim in. As somebody else pointed out, maybe 35 years with lots of maintenance is the normal lifespan, so 90 just sitting there is still fairly impressive.

ITT salty seaniggas

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Philippines beached this back in the 90s, to keep China from claiming a reef. Flip Marines have to live on it with barely any support. So China doesn't drag it away and start building an island there.

>>1023501
Can you really ensure that you will not pollute the ocean with this idea? I don't hate it but I would like to see some citations.
>>1023541
I think you might have issues with sulfates in sea water. Also concrete ships have problems with flexing in certain directions. Perhaps large purpose-built platforms though.
>>1023825
Create a giant artificial reef and then ground old ships on it. Perhaps in an area with already shallow water. Could be interesting.

>>1023890
>will not pollute the ocean
For somebody concerned with ocean pollution and trash you don't seem to be aware that the best source for buoyant trash IS the ocean. Pacific gyre desu fampai, just scoop it up, bag it, and you're on the way

>>1023891
Good idea! I'd still appreciate a link if for no other reason than this is interesting. Additionally I'm still not sure about safe and low-cost trash containment.

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>>1023892
>link
bfy (dot) tw/6miO
>low cost containment
See image.
Only problem is solving the whole "storm" issue.

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If I wanted a floating island as some people itt have discoused, it seems like buying a ship is the least practical way to go.

In just a quick search I saw used ships going from $6,500,000 usd to %25,000,000 usd.

For math purposes, we will assume the used ship for this would be $10m usd. For this price you could buy nearly 7000 pontoon logs, which of course is to many.

Depending on the size you want your island to be, you could realistically pick up 100 logs, and enough aluminum stock to hold it all together for well under $300k usd. Then all you would have to do is arrange the logs into grids and fill with garbage described by >>1023891 and deck over.

this has the added benefit of water and fuel storage (you always fill pontoons a little so they don't just blow away)

Using the 100 logs I spoke of earlier, you can make just under a half acre of "island" with 4 logs left over to add even more additional support to any region that may be particularly heavy.

you should be able to support 265 tons per acre this way, which seems to be more than enough for anyone looking to do this, and since its all aluminum, it should hold up just fine for a very long time since corrosion isnt an issue.

>>1022850
>If you sailed such a ship into the middle of the ocean and dropped anchor how long would it realistically last?

You aren't going to do that. You don't know how to do that. You cannot learn to do that here. You cannot affort to do that.

Ship crews are not /diy/, and neither is marine engineering spoonfeeding.

>Keeping in mind once the ship reaches it's final terminus it essentially becomes a permanent floating platform and hence the condition of the engine is semi-irrelevant.

You will need engines to drive bilge pumps, and if the platform breaks anchor you will need to reposition it.

The advantage of a ship is it can hold many shipping containers, which you can fill with foam for floatation when the ship begins to sink. Pack the top layer with imitation crab meat in rocket-propelled containers so you can escape to space.

>>1024078
>since its all aluminum, it should hold up just fine for a very long time since corrosion isnt an issue.


What is salt water? Mongtastic....

>>1024086
>What is salt water?

largely irrelevant since its 100% aluminum construction.

>When not in contact with other metals, aluminum can do quite well in both fresh and salt water, needing only bottom paint to prevent fouling. However, to play it safe, the American Boat and Yacht Council (ABYC) recommends that “aluminum vessels shall have a protective paint coating that provides a high [electrical] resistance barrier between the aluminum and the water.”

http://www.boatingmag.com/boats/protecting-aluminum-boats-salt-water-corrosion

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>>1024078
you get container carriers (no, srsly) for near fuck all at the moment, glut of them on the market. Was a thread on /pol/ about this recently, for fug knows why. Oil rigs as well, not so easy to move but.

The basic decision remains, do you want to be able to sail under own power? - need ship-type thing.. do you want it just to float? - multiple pontoon-type system (as you said) maybe less expensive initially, also no single point of failure, can also be towed/moved if needed. Problem, would probably need calm water, there is little/no high wave/strom protection.

Probably my favouite would be, platform,. or grounded ship - you can get these really cheap (scrap ships with minor dents), or platform build (like Sealand, somebody mentioned earlier - Pic Related) - problem, platform build is probably more expensive, location is then fuíxed, and, for both (grounded ship) - you need relatively shallow water, which is probably taking you (by default) into someones terrotorial water (Sealand used to be outside Bongolands @ 3mile, they extended offshore territory to 12 miles).

>Decisions, decisions.

>>1023536
>have 2 floating drydocks
They wouldn't fit into one another unless they could be collapsed somehow when not in use.

The paint they use is actually a pretty plastic-like material.

When europe is overrun and the world burns my friends and I have a plan to escape to the ocean and live out our days on fish, solar power and an on-board greenhouse.

We've an expedition vessel earmarked, it's been in a private drydock for years and the owner is one of the ones coming with us (He got it ex-british army and used it for a few years before an illness caused him to lose his wife and hang up his hat. Never could part with the huge fucking ship though), 78 berth so there's space for the whole group and our families.

I know it can't last forever and only a couple of us know how to crew it but we'd just have to learn, wouldn't we? If we get a few more years or even a decade of freedom then it'll be worth it.

>>1024109
>Ships Log, Day 1433

"Whats for dinner?"
>"Tuna, oh, and we've got a tomato. Nearly. Like some more salt?"
"Oh fuck, not fucking TUNA, again - Give me the ships gun, I've had enough"
>"Nope - bullets got damp - rusty can opener do?"
"Here with it, just here.."

>>1024125
When I say greenhouse I didn't mean a little pop-up tin thing in your garden, I meant two 15m polytunnels, the setup is professional, they aren't even part of the conversion work they were there originally. Fuck knows what the british army used the thing for.

Basically, imagine a bunker ship but the middle is polytunnel.

>>1024129
getting me interested now, anon.. if you get the opportunity and had no objections - throw up a pic or two?, cheers.

>>1023541
Why not make a ship out of ice instead?

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Project_Habakkuk

>>1023559
Dropping knowledge right here y'all. Noted.

Rig two together catamaran style.
Bituminous paint below waterline (barnacles don't matter if they aren't affecting hull).
Sea anchors.

>>1024154
"""global warming'""

>>1024078

>pontoon in the middle of the ocean

First little swell and you are done

>>1024125

>canned tuna
>on a village ship in the middle of the ocean

Really?

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>>1025156
Our Ship Post Cast:
(1) TUNA
(2) A RUSTY CAN OPENER

2 (two) seperate objects, could be related, in this case, aren't. Your brain (?) is drawing a line where none exists.. NOWHERE does it state, implied otr otherwise, the tuna came from a can. There is a name for this illusion, but, it escapes me - we'll call it 'tardism' in your case. Yes, 'Really'. No apology required.

>>1022850
if you buy a ship made in china it will rust in river/lake water in 10 years and even faster in ocean

>>1025165
Make the ship from shipping containers which last forever and cannot implode even if pulled into a black hole.

>>1025167

Until you need to bury them. Everyone knows that shipping containers weakness is soil.

You've taken the shipping container meme to a whole new place OP

>>1022850
So OP is obviously retarded, but hear me out guys, Hipster Cruises.
Storage containers for rooms. Only stops are at shipping ports.

>>1025182

Register them as temporary crew and they get passes to leave port and hit the local dive bars

>>1025155

I wont pretend to be an expert here, but it seems to me that a rigid half acre platform would be fairly stable once you fill all the logs half way with water. How would you improve on it to make it better?

Maybe a shit ton of "anchors" hanging down deep into the water?

>>1025182
Tiny houses and hydroponic gardens would be a great fit for a container cruise.

>How would you improve on it to make it better?

By not doing it in the first place. It's fucking stupid and you are lazy for not knowing why.

Get spoonfed elsewhere. You mongs who shit up /diy/ with stupid posts you could easily google are cancer. WHY don't you Google? You losers can find the source of any porn pic from a pixellated thumbnail but won't expand your minds in any other direction.

Part of /diy/ is pulling your heads out of your arses so you can develop effective knowledge acquisition skills.

Better off just pulling a China.
Find a reef/ sandbar/ shallow spot and fill it with rocks and concrete then call it sovereign land

>>1022900
Ive seen cargo ships with no engines going for about 40,000$ but be warned. Cargo ships are large. But are built like shit... If I was gonna buy one I'd drop like 4 grand on a really good welding machine that had some balls. And reinforce the whole thing from the inside.

Oh and anchoring to the ocean doesn't work because you always want your bow pointined at the waves. If a wave hits the side of your boat. Thats how shit flips.

>>1026168
The ship cost ain't shit, it's making and keeping it seaworthy. An old ship without engines is a "ship shaped object" rather than a capable vessel.

Stupid idea unless you are rich and then it's a stupid idea because you can /diy/ a NEW custom boat instead. There are some badasfuck /diy/ boat builders but it's more a calling than a cost-effective way to get something to hold your shipping containers.

With no engines how would OP power freezers for his imitation crab meat?

>>1026168

Out in the sea or ocean wave action and wind normally come from the same direction.

A wave will not hit you from the side from out of nowhere unless you are near a cliff face or sea wall then you get conflicting tides but then that still is not out of nowhere.

I'd dry dock it and coat the inside and outside of the hull in an inch or 4 of truck bed liner.

>>1026168
Only 4 grand? Try 20k at least. Almost half the cost of the ship.

You could likely cut down costs by buying an old ship from India and repairing it.

Honestly, it might just be better to buy a smaller ship and set down near an island that is not owned, or buy the island.

>>1026743
>You could likely cut down costs by buying an old ship from India and repairing it.

If it's ready for the breakers it won't be cheap to repair, especially after towing etc because it was so fucked up no one wants to refurb the thing even at Indian subcontinent prices.

OP is just playing and didn't do any research or he'd not have posted.

This is not refuckingmotely a DIY project unless your version of DIY is based on you having lots of money, many years experience in marine fab and maintenance, and having a large business worth of equipment. Then you would not have had such a stupid idea, but people don't know what's dumb without experience and research.

This is another shipping container thread, boaty version.

>>1026250

I tip my fedora to your dry sarcasm. (tips fedora)

>>1027071
It was indeed dry saracasm, as the truck bed liner would prevent any liquids from getting through.

>>1027249

Truck bed liner - $30 covers 38 square feet at 1/8" thick

Biggest oil tanker - 1500 x 288 feet = 432,000 square feet

432,000/38 = 11368

11368 x 32 (added layers to reach 4 inches) = 363,776

$363,776 in bed liner only

And it only takes one scratch and it needs to be drydocked as that shit would have water penetration all the way through from wave action only.

A small amount of water can be overpowering. The ocean is a vicious bitch.

>>1027391

Also remember the oil tankers square footage assumes a flat bottom with no depth so it will be much more than that.

>>1027391
Cool, you responded to my joke with useless information that I care nothing about. You sure showed me.

Would fouling on the hull really matter? I though that on a metal hull ship the barnacles won't really hurt it, but will effect the cruising efficiency. Which doesn't really matter if you're parking it at anchor for decades.

>>1027946

Anything that can affect the coating will affect a metal hull ship as the only thing that stops it from rusting is the coating.

I know cargo ship is bad idea, but my childhood idea was to take an oil tanker, seal off a couple compartments in it, and then build in those.

>>1026412
You can get a nice "industrial" MIG for 6k.

>>1029590
True. The filler wire and other consumables would cost much more. Paint, rust and barnacles don't magically jump out of the way. Then you get to buy and cut steel so you need a cutting outfit, manlifts etc.

Oh, you also need a fucking dry dock to work below waterline.

>>1027249

You have to blast prep the hull to bedliner it. Then there's internal corrosion munching its way outwards from internal compartments.

>>1029616
I should have added that you can't coat the internal hull without pressure washing and stripping or the liner won't stick.

Thousands of tons of bedliner cost more than the same weigh in steel.

>>1026240
>has never been to sea

>>1026240
There is this thing called rogue waves. They come out of nowhere, are pretty large, and don't fit with normal wave action

>>1023824
what is the history behind this?

>>1029725

Stop playing fucking video games.

While they exist they are very uncommon and a better term for them is ABNORMAL wave as they tend to follow they same wave direction but their main distinction is their significant height in compared to other waves. Rogue implies that they are some sort of angst filled teenage rebel that don't follow rules, but they fucking do.

As a 15 year seafarer I have yet to see a "rogue" wave that gave us any concern.

>>1029740
http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-3469044/Mummified-body-German-adventurer-vanished-inside-drifting-yacht-Philippines.html

>>1029826
>15 year seafarer
Would you happen to know how somebody can start working on tugboats?
Transport Canada's website is absolutely fucking confusing.

>>1029871

I started at a day charter company (all one boat) >>1029871
and through contacts hopped around on a wrecker, fishing trawler and finally landed myself on a landing craft.

I really couldn't tell you about tugboats in canada

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>>1024154
>Perutz proceeded to conduct experiments on the viability of pykrete and its optimum composition in a secret location underneath Smithfield Meat Market in the City of London.[7][8] The research took place in a refrigerated meat locker behind a protective screen of frozen animal carcasses.[9]

so what material would last out in the ocean? polyeurothane? carbon fiber? some kind of really expensive metal like titanium? would stainless steel work?

just something that requires very little upkeep on the outside.

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>>1027391.
>>1029616
>>1029620
>my fantasy dream just got more expensive and labor intensive

Oh no.

Just throw some pontoons on a shipping container.

>>1022885
LARP Waterworld
Can we talk about how we'd DIY this?

>>1025163
Except that the picture has a can of tuna....

>>1023747
fucking classic post anon.

>>1026213
I imagine he plans to use solar/wind/tidal generators and scrap/mothball the engines.

Its a pretty lit /post-apocalypse/ idea. Assuming you ignore the glaring problems with it.

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>>1023820