Hey /d/ I have a question for you. It's kind of a weird

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I'll admit this question is born out of personal frustration. I am a kinky person myself, and I like to degrade and be mean to my partners in the bedroom, but outside of sex I'm very different. I try very hard to treat my partners "morally," but sometimes I feel like trying that doesn't work. That I become boring or just a chore to put up with.

Not to say that I am perfectly moral either. In every relationship I've gotten out of I've been able to look back and see shitty things I've done myself.

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Well at the very least enjoy whatever I dump here.

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>>7178279

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Shorstacks are best stacks.

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Does this count as /d/ material?

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Surely someone here has an opinion on this? I've always seen /d/ as a good place to have these kind of discussions (as long as it's kept out of a world altering thread).

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Are people at least enjoying the dump?

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Anybody?

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>>7178381

Yeah, this dump is great! I'm a little. .. busy but I'll get back to you!?

Excluding my fetishes and dark humor I'm a dirty normie with a half decent life so I feel qualified to answer..
No, usually a partner might get frustrated with the other partner, or they might (and usually will) fight because not all people match 100%, but abuse shouldn't be a part of it, unless it's something they both want.
If my girlfriend would try to abuse me, be it physically or mentally, I would lose all respect for her. And I would never abuse her because I'm not a sadistic asshole.

Well this is hardly the place to discuss it, but I guess it depends on how you define "abuse," all people do bad things to each other from time to time, the hope is that the good will outweigh the bad. When people are in a romantic relationship things are obviously harder because it's easier to be emotionally hurt and when you are hurt it's easier to hurt your partner back because you understand what makes them tick. A lot of relationships end up kind of shitty because people just default to this button-pushing behavior, and it's a hard habit to break. I don't know if there's an answer, you're being a little vague about what "abuse" is in this scenario, so I'm just expounding a little on what I've observed.

i think yes in a certain way, as cliche as it sounds relationships require a lot of communication to work and to limit the abuse but there always seems to be a little bit. (assuming you mean all types of abuse not just physical) It can be very subtle abuse and go unnoticed until it builds up and the relationship collapses. I've seen it happen plenty of times.

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>>7178233

Nah, abuse is never part of a healthy relationship. People can fight at times, and that's normal, but things like the examples you gave shouldn't be just accepted. Blame stereotypes and lazy writing in comedies/advertising for perpetuating the belief that relationships should be adversarial. Men and women aren't fucking different species, there's no reason for couples not to behave like human beings to each other.

I don't have much in the way of /d/ content saved, so please excuse the mildness of my offering.

>>7178233
>Do all relationships contain abuse?
No, jesus fucking christ NO. You have lived a miserable life if you believe this. Get therapy.

>>7178381
Who's the artist

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>>7178449
I feel like you're getting what I'm saying, but you're right I guess I am vague about the abuse. There's obvious examples like physical and sexual, but I think more in just shitty ways people do things. The thing I see some girls do sometimes is joke about the size of their partners penises in public, which I have never seen the guy be okay with. On the flipside I usually see guys who will be deliberate assholes to their girlfriends. I even had a friend once tell me that he did it on purpose, because otherwise she would leave him. I want to argue the point but he's been in a relationship longer than anybody else I know.

>>7178447
But that's the thing. Physical abuse is very easy to spot, but mental? Emotional? I've been in relationships where I never even realized I was being abused (or at least what I would consider to be abuse) until I was out of it. And the thing is, even though I recognize the behavior as abusive I still don't entirely blame my partner for doing it. Like, I can see why they did those things, and even though I was 100 not okay with it somehow I just... didn't also feel like they were so bad for doing it?

>>7178443
This one's for you, bud

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>>7178455

That's kind of how I'm viewing it. People are abusive to their partners, but it's not the abuse itself, it's the abuse/benefit ratio that determines if a relationship lasts. Like, your partner has to bring enough that outweighs the shittiness for it to work.

>>7178459

Breddy gud offering.

See, that's what I want. I don't want to feel adversarial to my partner. I want to have an "equal" relationship where things are worked out, but I feel like I've never really achieved that. And then I see relationships that I KNOW partners are being shitty to each other and they last forever. I feel like trying to be moral in a relationship is a sucker's game sometimes.

>>7178461

If only I could afford it. I need it.

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>>7178464

Zheng, apparently http://gelbooru.com/index.php?page=post&s=list&tags=zheng

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Some hairy orc pussy for variety.

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Before you ask, no I don't have the rest of this comic.

>>7178443
I'm back!

>I've started to think that perhaps the very nature of romance is to have some sort of abuse.

I can see that, especially when the notion of "romance" is a self-sacrifice to prop up the other person. Something like shutting yourself down and refusing to talk about something really eating at you *because* you "don't want to hurt them" is definitely going to mess you up and most likely the relationship is going to fall apart.

>it's "natural" for couples to just be shitty to each other in ways that are unacceptable. It may be inevitable

Hmm. I think the interpersonal abuse between random people, coworkers, family, and lovers is there because we, as humans living in hyper urbanized areas (even if you live out in the boonies), now have dimished skills for dealing with conflicts. The most extreme example being to call the police or go to court to resolve a problem. You're not alone in seeing these trends, but again I wouldn't personally pin it on an intrinsic human thing is "being abusive." I feel really strong and "right" about certain things but I also can't read minds or communicate raw emotion telepathically. So, if someone challenges the way I feel about something I know I'm going to get riled up and speak passionately. If I don't keep my composure I'm bound to say some bs to them that'll make them mad and they'll throw an insult back, or get louder. Whatever. It'll spiral into abuse, where we're trying to hurt each other or otherwise make ourselves feel better by any means necessary. I think it comes down to patience for clear communication and understanding.

Otherwise, though, if someone is into bdsm with knives and breath-play it may LOOK like abuse and torture, but if everyone involved is getting their jollies off and having fun then it's not abusive at all. It comes down to respect, consent, and checking in with your people

>>7178449
>I guess it depends on how you define "abuse," all people do bad things to each other from time to time, the hope is that the good will outweigh the bad.

I wanna respond to this real quick...
Lets say you and I are partners. We've been dating for a while and we know each other's quirks. If you were to ask me to clean up the water in the bathroom after I shower and I just don't do it - that's not abuse. If it keeps going and you just clean up my mess and then I get mad when you bring it up and say "Well, what about all of your messes! Huh?!" then definitely red flags there and it's becoming abusive.

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>>7178554

But I mean, what about your messes? I've felt that too. I had a partner, and we cleaned pretty evenly at first, but then after a while she stopped cleaning some things, and then I stopped cleaning some things because she stopped, and the whole thing spiraled out of control.

>>7178544

I do think unhealthy ideas about love and romance contribute to the problem. We all have our own ideas, and most of them are wrong., but I feel that way even about people who have stayed together for years and years. In fact, the relationships that DO last lifetimes I sometimes find to be the most miserable ones (though I'll admit I'm a spectator here).

And that escalation of abuse is part of it, too. I have felt myself doing that, because I've done the escalation and it's turned a good relationship sour, but at the same time I have deliberately tried to take steps to NOT do that, and when I do I feel like the relationship never even gets off the ground. Like, if I'm not at least a *little* shitty to my partner, nothing ever actually happens.

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>>7178607

>>7178575
>after a while she stopped cleaning some things, and then I stopped cleaning some things because she stopped, and the whole thing spiraled out of control.

I've been there too. I can have some fun in "fuck it" moments, but I need some kind of personal status quo for myself to feel free and happy. I can't understand why people will drop something they enjoy just to be with someone else. I had a huge pothead friend who stopped smoking any weed just to be close to this Christian girls. There were all these mind games and accusations flying around from the both of the before they finally broke up. Its okay to be yourself and like the stuff you like. And if someone else doesn't like it you can still have a relationship with the understanding that this thing you disagree on is something in the background. Idk.

>I feel that way even about people who have stayed together for years and years. In fact, the relationships that DO last lifetimes I sometimes find to be the most miserable ones

Eh. Yeah kinda. I've seen folks who spend all their time (and many years) together without the titles of gf/bf/husband/wife and they're genuinely happy and great to be around. I also have seen many more people who are in a "typical" relationship/marriage and are fucking awful to be around and they're awful to each other. There's a lot of peeps out there who put so much stock in typical relationships like it's this magical cloak that makes you a better person even if you murder tiny animals, which is of course a crock of shit and that mentality lends itself to virtually all the problems *of* relationships.

>escalation of abuse is part of it, too. ... I have deliberately tried to take steps to NOT do that, and when I do I feel like the relationship never even gets off the ground.

What do you mean by "off the ground"? Where's the line between friend and a relationship?

>>7178554
In short, every human relationship of any kind contains abuse then. I mean, you're taking it a bit to the extreme but using others to do some stuff you'd have to do otherwise/would like to have it done is the very essense of human communication. And when both partners do not feel like doing something (housework is a great example here) one of them (or both) get abused in a sense they're forced to do something they don't want to do.
In healthier relationships you get to choose to postpone cleaning up your table for like few months. In abusive ones it gets brought up every goddamn days. But there's no way just to get some things magically done or to avoid certain, ahem, responsibilities.

>>7178315
I'd say so.

>>7178233
> I'm starting to think that it's "natural" for couples to just be shitty to each other in ways that are unacceptable.
Those are normalfags. Do not be like normalfags.

>tl;dr is it impossible for there to be a relationship without mutual abuse?
No, it's just that your average person is petty as fuck. Here are two rules for a happy marriage:
1) Let minor things slide-- don't get pissed off about trivial little shit that you won't remember a week from now.
2) TALK WITH YOUR FUCKING PARTNER. If they're doing something that pisses you off and you WILL remember it a week from now, SAY SOMETHING TO THEM.

#2 is especially important for /d/ because you need to have trust if you want to indulge your kinks.

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>>7178469
>I've been in relationships where I never even realized I was being abused (or at least what I would consider to be abuse) until I was out of it. And the thing is, even though I recognize the behavior as abusive I still don't entirely blame my partner for doing it. Like, I can see why they did those things, and even though I was 100 not okay with it somehow I just... didn't also feel like they were so bad for doing it?

Allow me to explain this in a way which you may not want to hear, but objectively, makes the most sense: You are emotionally immature.

If you don't like it, say something.
If you can understand why they did something, it's probably not abuse.
If you think it's abuse but you don't blame them for it, either it's not abuse or you've gotten Stockholm syndrome.
If you didn't realize it was abuse at the time you were naive, and hopefully you've grown from the experience.

Judging from your posts I'd peg your emotional age at 18/19-- "just entering college".
>girls joking about her man's dick size
>man being a bitch and getting salty but not saying anything
This is classic petty shit that normalfags think is OK because they're retarded. It goes hand in hand with, "my fetishes are ebul an I am bad person for using my imagination with sex :((((((((((("

>guys who will be deliberate assholes to their girlfriends.
Probably abuse but potentially not depending on your definition of "deliberate asshole". Despite feminist propaganda, it's sometimes OK to disregard what your partner says, but only in the same way that it's OK to get someone something that isn't on their Christmas list-- it'll only work if you know the person better than they know themselves.

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>>7178724

I can see some o the points you are making here, though I think you are taking the examples I've given as too much of a reflection of my overall view. I get that you're in a life where you can explore your fetishes, but the circumstances in my life have not allowed me to live so freely. I've had some unfortunate, negative reactions in the past to my actions, which is not very encouraging for future relationships.

You are right, though, I am emotionally immature. I've really only had one relationship that I ever considered long term, and it was only six months. I have trouble expressing myself to people I have feelings for. Most of my successful relationships have started online. I want to get past it but I'm not sure how.


>>7178710
>Talk with your partner
THIS. I find it frustrating that when I meet someone who I think is very cool, but when I try to talk kinks with them they seem to shut down. Maybe I'm just dating the wrong type of people?

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>>7178745
Let me give you some real advice then instead of rambling:

You aren't going to find a movie-perfect partner who is onboard with everything you care about-- I'm not talking the small stuff, I'm talking the big stuff. A great partner is someone you can live with, someone who fills a void in your life, but they aren't going to "complete" you.

Maybe you disagree on politics, or religion, or something... the KEY is that you can discuss the issue and agree to disagree about it without feeling resentful.

It takes a long time and a few relationships for people to understand what's important to them and to really know what you're looking for in a relationship. Don't be afraid to go out with people who you don't think you'll like just to see how things go. You aren't obligated to only date people you immediately click with, your only obligation is to be upfront and honest with people when you decide things aren't working out.

>kinks
This is one of those big things. A few people are really into kinks, many people aren't willing to even consider trying them, and most people just don't understand or never thought about it. It's a delicate subject and not something you should expect from every partner. If kinks are a priority for you, you need to be upfront about it because normies still think anal and light bondage are the height of kinkiness.
>when I try to talk kinks with them they seem to shut down.
The way you phrased this makes it sound like you're a complete social retard and you're going around asking ultra-Christian girls if they'll peg you. Don't do that. Either advertise that you're looking for someone to indulge your kinks or don't even mention the subject until after you've had sex a few times. If you have good social skills you can casually feel the other person out by joking about it but I wouldn't try that unless you know you aren't going to blow it like a retard.

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>>7178767 (continued)
For me, kinks aren't a big deal. It'd be nice to find someone who enjoys them but I'm not going to hold out until I find a legbeard that understands why I enjoy /tg/ and /d/. Half the stuff I fap to on /d/ is stuff I wouldn't even enjoy IRL because it's not the same. The important thing is to find someone who either doesn't care what I fap to or someone who is mature enough to trust me when I tell them I'm not going to show them the kind of stuff I jerk it to. Pic related, normies can't even handle futa let alone something like this, and I'm sure I have weirder.

So for you, I would say you need to figure out whether kinks are something that's truly important to you and then act accordingly; as I said before, either advertise for someone kinky or don't plan on bringing it up for a while.

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>>7178767
>>7178785

Hard words but good advice. I really like the "not obligated to go out with people you don't click with" bit. I've never been able to pass that hurdle, but I guess It wouldn't hurt to try.

I agree about the "not being able to complete you" part. I believe strongly in polyamory myself. I don't think any one person is capable of completing another. You need other relationships to compliment yourself--sometimes that's romantic, but often its platonic, or familial.

Kinks are an issue with me. I don't really care if I have a partner that's into them, or is willing to do them, but somehow the idea of keeping that part of myself hidden seems awful to me. I want someone who understands and accepts it, even if they don't personally engage in it. I imagine that can be hard to find.

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>>7178767
>>7178785

Follow up I really appreciate your advice, and everyone else's in the thread. I'm sorry I didn't reply to everyone, but I promise I read it all.

I'm taking in mind everything you've all considered. At the very least it was helpful to talk with some people. I know this was a weird place for this thread, but I wasn't wrong. /d/ is the wisest board.

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>>7178788
> but somehow the idea of keeping that part of myself hidden seems awful to me.
That's cuz everybody wants to be a speshul snowflake and be recognized for "who they truly are". It's bullshit. It's the same bullshit every newfag on /d/ worries about because they've been conditioned to think of kinks as bad and then once they start fapping they feel incredibly guilty about doing such "bad" things. I say again that what you should be looking for is
>find someone who is mature enough to trust me when I tell them I'm not going to show them the kind of stuff I jerk it to.

What if the shoe was on the other foot? Do you want to know all of your partner's kinks?
>I want someone who understands and accepts it, even if they don't personally engage in it.
You say that, but think to yourself, honestly, are there any kinks you would think less of someone for having? I would personally hate it if I found out someone I loved had a scat fetish. I've given this some thought and personally, if my partner and I were going to talk about our kinks I'd give them a list ahead of time of stuff I don't want to hear about so I wouldn't have to know.

Trust me when I say that people DO NOT want to hear the truth. As an Anon with """autism""" I learned a long time ago that correcting people or pointing things out isn't helpful in many cases. Sometimes you need to know when to shut the fuck up so as not to ruin a good thing. If I found somebody who was otherwise perfect but hated kinks and anybody who was into them, I'd fucking delete all my folders, stop browsing /d/, and never look back. Only life experience will tell you what you TRULY value, when you're forced to decide between two things you enjoy.

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>>7178785 >>7178821
Replying to myself just to expand on this point.
>Pic related, normies can't even handle futa let alone something like this, and I'm sure I have weirder.
> are there any kinks you would think less of someone for having?
I'm going to skip all the logical explanation bullshit and try explaining things this way:

I have an entire folder of armpit/sweat stuff solely because I like how the women are drawn. If I was being open with a partner, and showed them my porn collection, do you think they'd believe me, or do you think they'd start thinking I'm hiding my armpit fetish from them?

I enjoy those images and threads because without fail, armpit artists draw their characters with more detail and more realistic body proportions (tits notwithstanding). Other people might just see the sweat and be turned off, and I don't think they would overlook that without a lot of convincing or without instructions on how to imagine the images. So I really don't believe it's necessary, in a health relationship, to be 100% open and reveal all your secrets to your partner. A good partner would be able to trust you when you say there are things you don't want to reveal.