So is this arc the best Marvel's been in decades? Hickman's

>>95374260
I liked it a lot.

>>95374260
>that sassy Namor line

I really miss Hickman's New Avengers. Hickman wrote a great Black Panther and Namor.

>>95374260
I liked it a lot. It was Marvel's Bokurano

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Sun God was too pure for this world or any other in the Marvel Universe.

>>95374260
Yeah, I liked it too. I never understood all the hate.

>>95374260
>>95374921
I don't remember exactly how that ended, but I do remember being very unhappy.

>>95374260
I like the narrative, the idea of heroes being forced to bad things or cease to be.

Namor was great too, taking the villain role so everybody got to stay "heroes" was a great touch. Especially his aside about his new Cabal taking too much pleasure in committing these foul acts that it made him too sick to continue, gave him a layer of depth.

"They are heroes, we are Kings, we know the price to pay for peace" Loved that line, i'm probably paraphrasing poorly.

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I will always miss The Norm, I loved his design. The idea of somebody, not themselves being magic but haven't collected trinkets that enable the illusion of being magical.

>>95374260
>So is this arc the best Marvel's been in decades?
No, but it was definitely the best arc from Hickvengers and by extension, one of the best arcs from the Marvel NOW!-era.

>>95374959
Strange sells his souls and Namor destroys that Earth. Then everyone gangs up on Namor and kills him.

>>95374959

Strange summoned Cthulhu to kill everyone, then they blew up the planet, which Sun God chose to remain behind on rather than join them.

>>95374260
>>95374260
As always with Hickman, if he could just fucking compress a little, it would be godlike. It was good enough.

>>95374959
they all have the intention to destroy a world but pussy out and namor goes ahead with it which made everyone angry for some dumb reason

>>95375045
Which do you consider better?

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>>95374959

>>95375151
I actually found the opposite problem, well kinda.
Like, the Incursions and what have you has enough material in it to be worth years of stories.
But the narrative kept getting distracted.

I guess that's the nature of comics and shit. You need crossovers and sub-events within events.
You can't just have everyone going "HOLY SHIT THE WORLD IS FUCKING ENDING, WE NEED TO SOLVE THIS, DROP EVERYTHING"
You still need your "Iron Man goes into space and gets raped by Gamora" stories

Anyone got the page from when Namor blows up the DC Earth and 30% of the page is taken up by his ridiculous bulge?

>>95375123
I really liked this repeating speech motif

>>95375070
>>95375084
>>95375206
>>95375382
Oh yeah. That was it.

>>95375382
So was blowing up the world really all they could do and the JL stand in we're just being way to idealistic about the situation

>>95375933
Sort of. There's not much that they could do at that point, but I think the issue was the Marvel heroes weren't able to live up to the standards of the past where superheroes were always expected to find a way to overcome the odds, because that's what superheroes do.
I think you can start reading from here:
http://desuarchive.org/co/thread/88303851.

>>95375020
I think that was the last time we saw Tim Hunter

>>95376035
Yeah he turned out to be some harry potter looking kid with magical nicknacks.

We have Doctor Spectrum still, idk where she went though.

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>>95376228
Wait, are you familiar with Tim Hunter?
Gaiman created him in the Books of Magic miniseries, and the character had his own 70 issue long series. He was literally Harry Potter a few years before HP was published

>Best Marvel's been in decades.
>DC heroes are shit and weak, look at how cool and dark are our heroes.

Flash could rape strange and ctushit through the multiverse all by himself.

>>95375382
That is just terrific.

New Avengers was good.

Avengers kinda sucked though, which made the whole thing a really mixed bag.

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>>95376780
The person over at illuminatingcomics redid all of Everything Dies and stuff, then condensed it into ten pages, and released Secret Wars.

Here's the first page in the 10-page condensed version:
http://illuminatingcomics.tumblr.com/post/124157187995/starting-friday-17-time-compression

There's a lot of shade thrown around

>>95376295
The Books of Magic mini was GOAT just as was Morrison's Kid Eternity. What a good time the early nineties were.

>>95375382
>>95376851
I love this arc, but these are so hilarious and accurate.

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>>95375458
You won't, so I will.

>>95377463
Now I know where that "chad meme" image got their bulge from.

>>95377798
Someone should make a Virgin Panther vs Chadmariner

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>>95377453
Overall I liked it when I was reading it, but knowing where it was going now makes me hate it a bit narratively. There were so many moments that could have been forshadowed a bit better, and characters used in more effective ways

>>95376429
Yes he could. But that wasnt the Flash.

>>95376851
The Iluminati was so fucking stupid. Jesus Christ.

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Best bros 4 life

Gillen's JiM

>>95378594
I liked how fast they were about getting the bombs made.
They only got real stupid after killing the Justice League.

>>95378718
>ywn go around the universe drinking everything and kicking everything's ass with your best bro

>>95378732
What is this?
I don't know the abbreviation

>>95374260
Marvel's swan song

>>95376429
>missing the point this much

>>95377927
I couldn't agree more. Getting there was fun, but I didn't feel satisfied by the end.

>>95378594
I like the concept of the illumanti, but yeah, they were pretty dumb for supposedly being the smartest of the marvel universe.

>>95378815
Journey into Mystery

>>95378815
Journey into Mystery

>>95378815
James

>>95378885
>>95378890
Thanks, I'll check it out
>>95378900
Cheeky monkey

>>95375382
this one and OVER THE LINE TONY are really good

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>>95377927
fuck yeah

>>95376429
If anything this shows how much better the DC heroes are than the Marvel heroes.

The better part is from the previous issue.

not this day
because the day, BELONGS TO ME

>>95381919
Ironically, I think it's the other way around.
This is the one event where I can say that Marvel heroes are better characters.
I'm not talking about the pastiche of the "Great Society". They were obvious copies, but Sun God truly stood for what Superman would stand for. He did or said nothing that Supes wouldn't.

The Justice League often goes into these "End of the World" type scenarios with nothing but hope and good intentions.
There have been multiple times Superman has shot down ideas and said "No! We will find another way!".

The whole Incursion arc was about how sometimes there isn't another way. Sometimes it's them or us.
Having the Marvel heroes suffer made for a great story.
Though, I would have preferred Reed to do have done the genociding, not Namor. Everyone knows Namor would do it.
But Reed? He would do it and hate himself forever.

Great storytelling comes from when you make your characters suffer the most.

I always disliked "New Avengers". The story is repetitive, the drama never ringed right and Hickman's Captain America is one of the worst, might as well be called "Captain Jingoism".

Three arcs in a row telling the readers that THIS time the heroes will go too far? Thanks, but no thanks.

>>95382266
Not accusing or anything, but what stories did you like more or found better?

>>95382315
Discussing the matter of morality? I think even "Identity Crisis" did it better.

>>95382425
I don't think Hickman's Avengers was really about "morality" as much as it was about how these characters bounce off each other when pushed.

It's a pretty cut and dry conundrum. Do it or die.

>>95382810
>It's a pretty cut and dry conundrum. Do it or die.
They didn't do it nor did they die. None of the characters faced anything after "Secret Wars", only Namor, and his punishment was to die and be resurrected right after.

So much for "Marvel's swan song".

>>95382944
Yeah, I admit that the ending kinda fizzled out and the characters were never pushed as far as they should have.
But really, what competition does it have?

>>95382055
>Great storytelling comes from when you make your characters suffer the most.
Yeah One More Day was so good and acclaimed

>>95382055
>Great storytelling comes from when you make your characters suffer the most.
Tell me your favorite writer is Remender, please.

>>95383108
That was the opposite. A god damned cop out.
Back in Black was what happens when you make characters suffer. And that was great.

>>95382055
>Great storytelling comes from when you make your characters suffer the most.
I think that is a terrible generalization.

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>>95382055
>This is the one event where I can say that Marvel heroes are better characters.

I think you are confusing better characters with more realistic. I think realistic is the word i'm looking for.

>The whole Incursion arc was about how sometimes there isn't another way. Sometimes it's them or us.

Yah but In comic books there always is another way unless the writers trying to make a point and it just feels forced to me.

>>95382055
Artificially forcing situations into having "one way" isn't good storytelling in the least

>>95383243
Think about what stories you like where characters don't suffer

>>95383316
That's the nature of comics
You have so many decades of bullshit being pulled out of asses that you need artificial constraints to make things actually have stakes.
Like, just think how many problems regular use of Pym particles would solve.

Comics need "artificial limitations" otherwise not even death means anything.

>>95374260
>literally just "we're butthurt DC is better so we'll have our 'heroes' destroy a proxy of them"

Friendly reminder that DC did the reverse during Multiversity and wasn't spiteful about it at all.

>>95383433
It wasn't spiteful at all. The Great Society was better than the Illuminati.
Dr Strange had to sell the rest of his soul and summon fucking Cthulu to beat them

>>95374260
>best
>in decades
>Hickman

You spelled any Marvel book by Ed Brubaker wrong.

>>95382986
>Yeah, I admit that the ending kinda fizzled out and the characters were never pushed as far as they should have.
>But really, what competition does it have?
I don't know. I'm talking about this story in particular.

The strength of the story was showing how far the heroes could be pushed? At the end of the day, the villains did the dirty job and the heroes washed their hands.

The other strength was showing the consequence of their acts? They didn't face any.

What was the point, then?

>>95383601
>What was the point, then?
Reed grew a beard

>>95383426
But Hickman didn't handle it in an interesting way. He just went, "well, all of these don't work for the Incursions because I said so".

>>95383626
While nice, this hardly makes a "great story".

I won't say it is bad BAD, but I will say that it has problems that people ignore just because they liked seeing character X getting fucked or character Y being alpha or what not.

>>95383639
It'd be pretty boring and autistic to spend whole issues dedicated to
>We can't use Pym Particles to move the Earth
>We can't use Tony's fucking Dyson sphere to move the Earth
>We can't use Kitty's phasing to survive the Incursion
>We can't just move to Mars and terraform it with the literal magic at our disposal
>We can't use our many teleporters to move Earth elsewhere
>We can't use our timetravellers to give us time to solve this
Etc etc etc
There is too much bullshit built in.
Hickman used the Infinity Gauntlet exploding to show that shit means business was very fucking economical. Comics, at the end of the day, have 30ish pages a month to tell a whole story.
You can't have all your characters in a room shooting down each other's ideas for the whole issue
Better have them use their best option (i.e. Gauntlet) and show that it doesn't work, and hope that the reader picks up on the idea that old things don't apply here

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Reminder that Reed saying "everything dies" again and again and again is Namor's best story according to its sad fans.

I will never not find it funny (and a little sad).

>>95383897
It's Namor's best story because for once he has a motivation that isn't "Be a giant dick to everyone"

>>95383897
>namorfag brings up namor yet again
what a sad life it must be to devote time out of your life to hating a fictional character

>>95383940
I do agree that is his best story.

I mean, he goes from "2edgy4thisgroup" to "not edgy enough for this other group". He never had so much character progression.

By default, it is his best story.

>>95383969
Namor's fans hate Namor?

>>95384308
With how much that anon likes to bring up Namor I can only assume he's actually a fan falseflagging so people actually talk about Namor

>>95383746
>praising Hickman for being economical when he wastes 4 pages EVERY ISSUE with an interior cover, recap page, roster page, and often a fucking blank page.

>>95384396
That did ignore me, yes.
I did kinda like the splash pages with the name of the issue, because if often answered a question answered on the previous page.
I didn't much care for the whole black page of "3 WEEKS LATER" or ever

>>95384487
*annoy me

>>95380832
>not X-Cuck
Anon pls

>>95375206
>for some dumb reason
After all their "greater good" speeches, when push came to shove, their feels prevailed over reals. Deep down, they are all idealists.
Namor, however, is a cynical, pragmatist cunt, so of course he'd grab that detonator, push it, and say "this is how you do it, faggots".
And being cynical, disillusioned people, we on 4chan would, of course, side with him over the frou-frou ideals of the rest of the group.

>>95384308
I believe, yes.

09 out of 10 Namor fans are repressed 1 out of They are "fans" of a character that is static in its shallow characterization and that has no good stories. Why the fuck would anyone like a waste of paper like that?

Easy: they just want to see someone wearing a green speedo. If someone points out how gay this is, they just say that they like how "alpha" the character is. I mean, he screams "Imperious Rex!", how can you be more alpha?

In their bones, they know how ridiculous this is and how terrible is the character. But it is their way to cope with their sexuality. Bless their heart.

>>95384715
Oh, you're that guy who's mom left his dad.

>>95384396
I COULD check the exact number of pages in every issue and compare it it to other comics with similar pagecount/same cover price, check how it relates to the number of pages with actual drawings, as well as the number in ads in each issue, and other such things to see if your nitpicking holds any water at all.

But I can't be assed to do it right now, so I'm just gonna call you a faggot and call it a day.

>>95384769
You can come out, anon. It is 2017, nobody will judge you.You don't have to pretend to like a character without good stories. It is not worth.

>>95384824
>>95384715
>>95383897
>>95381309
I don't get it? What's the point of spending your time on posting about Namor if you don't like him? This is like the 10th thread you've made on the subject in the last few months

>>95384864
The same reason "America" has 5 threads every week.

>>95384864
Anon is just tsundere. He secretly wants Namor to Imperius Sex him.

>>95383746
An event focused on the heroes using different solutions to move the Earth every time would have been far more creative and interesting than FIGHT TO THE DEATH NOW BECAUSE I THE WRITER DEMAND IT!

>>95382055
The Justice League are about the triumph of humanity, reason, and creativity over the unknown. They're very much in the mold of classic science fiction stories like you'd see before the New Wave.

They find a way to solve the problem, and even if they can't they will never go "them or us" because all people are under their protection. They would look into doing whatever they could to save the day and pray for more time.

They would never sell their souls to avoid failing, which was the point of the story.

True heroes go down with the ship like Sungod. False heroes go down kicking and screaming without dignity (the Avengers).

The Incursions were about what happens when writer fiat puts a loaded gun in the hands of the character and says shoot or else.

It's not clever. It's obtuse and dull.

>>95383601
There is none. The story was all heat and hype and no real brilliance like many other Marvel events.

>>95386152
>True heroes go down with the ship like Sungod. False heroes go down kicking and screaming without dignity (the Avengers).

I disagree. Sun God put his own pride over that of the ENTIRE WORLD he was protecting. Like what was said (I forget by whom) during the event, it's better to damn yourself than to be dead. Better to be a sinner doomed to Hell than let the people who looked up to you die.

Sun God/Superman wouldn't damn themselves to save their people. And that's wrong.
One man's damned conscience is not worth billions.
Let one man want to kill himself. Let a billion live.

>>95374260
Supes edit, please.

>>95386152
>>95386243

The problem with the story is that it had the characters who wanted to keep their morals basically just standing around, rather than doing their best to find the solution to the problem. The storytelling was always heavily biased against them. Even when they did address and explain away all alternatives, it was the "gray morals" group searching for them and it was done in a couple of pages, showing how it wasn't the storytelling focus at all, just something they threw there to answer questions from readers.

It was never really genuine with its take on those characters.

>>95386243
But the Avengers didn't save their people.
They failed and everyone died. Captain America even calls Tony out on it when he was kicking his ass.

>Better to be a sinner doomed to Hell than let the people who look up to you die

Philosophically it comes down to deontology vs utilitarianism. Is there anything more important than basic survival? Is there anything worth dying for and letting others die for?

There's really only two choices here. (It being a binary choice is part of why the scenario is dull). Risk oblivion to try and do the right thing or hedge your bets through genocide.

Sungod wanted to find another way and race the clock (and lets be honest, when the scenario is the multiverse is dying because Doom set off Molecule Man bombs ahead of the Beyonders' schedule trying to find another way isn't so very far fetched). That's very far from letting people die to save face.

Remember. If the Avengers truly didn't play favorites they would have killed whatever world had the smallest population.

But that's not how they played. They did "us and ours" above "theirs".

>>95386339
>Basically just standing there

This. I think a story about the heroes trying idea after idea that fails due to reasons until they just run out of time fighting against an end they cannot prevent would have been a lot better.

There was a story like that-the second Gruenwald Squadron Supreme if i recall.

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Hahahahah how the fuck are Incursions even real hahahaha Marvel hero just vibrate those Earths away like hero just close your eyes and shake.

>>95375020
Isn't that just Doctor Fate with red instead of blue?

>>95386520
It's literally a Dr.Fate+Tim Hunter analog.

>>95386520
That is the allusion