>Yes, thank you, exactly. Settle. Because otherwise you’re

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>>95360723
>>>95360723
>When you have rose-colored glasses on, all the red flags just look like flags.
Sometimes this show's dialogue hits too hard.

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>>95360723
>everybody loves you, but nobody likes you. And that is the loneliest feeling in the world.

... f-fuck

>>95360723
>>One day, you’re gonna look around and you’re going to realize that everybody loves you, but nobody likes you. And that is the loneliest feeling in the world.
>nobody loves OR likes me

yeah okay whatever lol

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Might as well post this one.

That episode with the self-hating voice hit me way harder than it should've

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>dude let's romanticize depression into some deep tragic thing lmao

these lines are melodramatic

>>95365971
they're called chips, pajeet

>>95365971
40% of population suffers from depression, might as well heal it, or at least make people be fine with it.

And that number increases every year.

>>95365971
>>95366087
You do realize depression is often situational, right? (Modern hypercapitalism can do that.)

>>95365971
>people don't have feelings it's all just chemicals that can be cured with pills
>stop thinking about things, nothing means anything lol
Also comedy, tragedy and romance have been the three staples of fiction for literally thousands of years. What the fuck else do you want people to write about?

>>95365204
Ah yes. The perfect defense to existential depression. Detached cynicism.

Guys, instead of wallowing in self pity like Bojack, or pretending everything will always be fine like PB, try working through your fears and issues.
Stop and think. Don't let your emotions and pride overtake you. Understand empathy.

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>>95366243
>markets have become ever less capitalistic as time has gone on with the peak of capitalism occurring in the 1890s
>dude peak capitalism dude depression lmao it's all connected

>>95367225
>markets have become ever less capitalistic as time has gone on with the peak of capitalism occurring in the 1890s
That peak was actually in the 1920s, and I think we all know how that story ended.

>>95367271
>the peak of capitalism occurred after the federal reserve was established and gained control over the money supply
Back to school junior

>>95366340
>Guys, instead of wallowing in self pity like Bojack, or pretending everything will always be fine like PB, try working through your fears and issues.

I'm just butthurt because this friend I have has an attitude like Mr. PB, does terrible shit like Bojack and gets away with it because he's attractive, has money from his parents and people like him.

It just isn't fair. I do something half as bad and people shit on the regular guy and even if I get away with it, I feel bad about it later because I have a sense of right and wrong. It's like Bojack says, "At least I know I'm an asshole and that makes it better. Or does that make it worse?"

I just don't see the point anymore.

>>95363065
this... hits me everytime.

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>>95367419
>this friend I have

You qualify "sex" with the descriptor "meaningless." Do you deny that deep down you believe that sex (in the "correct" way) will absolve your sins? How very... mundanely human.

>>95367474
I don't know what you're trying to say.

>>95367225
>markets are less capitalistic

thanks, i'm not depressed any more. now i'm just angry that there are actual retards out there that like sucking corporate dick such as yourself.

5/10

>>95365225

I really shouldn't be attracted to PC but I love the expressions she makes and how her eyebrows are almost always down.

>>95368240
corporatism=/=capitalism, dummy. It's not the fault of capitalism (which peaked in the 19th century) that we're being shafted by corporate jews and central banks today

>>95360723
Meh, I have it worse, for me Bojack is upbeat and fun.

>>95365971
>romanticize
i don't think you know what that word means/haven't seen the show

>>95360723
>everybody loves you, but nobody likes you
What exactly is this feeling? I don't think I've ever experienced it.
Is he talking about fame?

>>95371827
He's talking about fame, but it also applies to family.

I'd imagine a lot of people in this thread also thinks it applies to friends, since a symptom of depression is a belief that your friends don't like you and are only putting up with you, but that's not really a thing in reality.

>>95367504

You have no friends

>>95366243
>Modern hypercapitalism
Let me tell you about the jews

>>95366340
>Guys, instead of wallowing in self pity like Bojack, or pretending everything will always be fine like PB, try working through your fears and issues.
You mean like Diane?

>>95365919
Almost don't make it through the introduction. The credits saved me. I already get enough of that shit in my own head.

Most people today aren't really "depressed", they just develop anhedonia from being constantly overstimulated by passively consuming content without expending energy.

>>95365971
>romanticize
Wow a frogposter doesn't know the meaning of words
Imagine my shock

>>95360723
It's not one of those hard-hitting lines(not immediately, anyway), but did anyone else really like Wanda's "joke" from S2? I feel like a lot of people may have missed the point of that

>>95369518
Found the objectivist

>>95373304
>>95373304

He's not wrong.

>>95372795
I don't think I get it, unless it's just a metaphor for things that don't make sense later being part of something bigger.

>>95367419
>It just isn't fair
That's your one flaw.
That's a line that should only be uttered by a child.
Nature isn't fair.
People aren't fair.
Life isn't fair.
Concern yourself only with pragmatic things. Be practical, be sensible.

>>95372708
Isn't anhedonia part of depressive disorders?, your are talking about it as if was a new trend like people labelling themselves as aspergers.

>>95366266
my balls

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>>95363065
>Same thing that always happens. You didn't know me. Then you fell in love with me, and now you know me.

>>95373418
I may be reading into it way too much, but I interpreted that joke as basically a microcosm of the entire show and everything it's about. Both "parts" feature people in a world much larger, more complicated, and arguably random/chaotic than they're comfortable admitting. In their attempts to impose order/meaning on their lives, they only end up hurting themselves and possibly others. In the case of the gardener, his inability to just let go of the mulch thing inadvertently creates a "problem" for the chihuahua. The chihuahua, on the other hand, interprets this innocuous and totally random(from his perspective) phenomena as a scary threat purely because of a made up and arguably unjustified fantasy. Particularly in the latter case, sometimes there IS a greater "order" or "reason" why things happen, but it's often so crazy and outside the scope of our own lives that we can't possibly hope to understand it, and even if we could, it wouldn't be satisfying. And finally, if you want to get really meta, you could interpret the entire show as a kind of "joke" from our perspective, that things happen to Bojack and co. that don't make sense to them but do to us from our outside perspective. And just like Bojack, a lot of us don't fully realize how much we resemble the characters in the joke and their futile struggles.

>>95373391

If he isn't wrong, it's a hell of an equivocation to suggest that the phrase 'peak of capitalism' means 'the point at which the market was most laissez-faire.' It's at best a gross mischaracterization to suggest that free market post-industrial capitalism is the only or purest form of capitalism, and it speaks nothing to the influence of a capitalist system on our lives or the general breadth, scope or raw size of that system.

I mean, come on. He's suggesting that the 'peak of capitalism' came before Ford revolutionized the assembly line. That's mind boggling.

I watched again the first chapter of seaon 1 and Todd was a weed idiot with selfish ideas who lived from Bojack's indifference. Why he changed so much for bad? He is now an imaginative asexual guy who dated a celebrity and delivers wacky antics, why they ruined him?

>>95373591

Not feeling gratification because of depression and being locked into a diminishing returns on enjoyment because you keep burning out your dopamine transporders are different. One doesn't always imply the other. It's not a new trend of labeling, because people don't realize they have develop anhedonia and then after a couple of month of realizing they're unable to get really of anything short of dozens of hours of tv or videogames or copious amounts of weed they become "depressed" about it, as in start to process this intellectually while misattributing the source of the problem..

Don't fetishize your sadness.

>>95373702

>He's suggesting that the 'peak of capitalism' came before Ford revolutionized the assembly line. That's mind boggling.

But it's true, because out of fear for over-production capitalists created marketing os consumption towards desire, instead necessity.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=eJ3RzGoQC4s

>>95373816

Right -- because of fear that the market couldn't expand once all needs were met lead us to market towards consumption which necessarily expanded the market.

So the market kept expanding both in raw size and in cultural and social impact -- and yet somehow it peaked when we decided to expand it?

>>95360723
>A bloo-hoo-hoo I feel sad and that's bad
>feeling sad is deep and stuff

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>>95373707
Pic related is the reason, though I like the way he became the vehicle for setting up crazy plots, the dynamic between him and Mr. PB is comfy.

>>95365971
>romanticize

(You)

>>95374022
>yfw bojack has fallen victim to the same problems it used to satirize
I guess it was inevitable, but it doesn't make it any less sad

>>95371786
>>95372711
>>95374050

>identifying with a protagonist that is a famous and rich celebrity who is perpetually depressed isn't romanticizing depression

ok

>>95373802
This line is underappreciated. Really shows how self-aware the writing is, especially when Bojack steals it from PC to use on Diane

>>95360723
God season 4 is a shit show, all the jokes fall flat or are shit and the drama has started taking over more and more to the point where this show needs to stop trying to be a comedy and embrace drama/tragedy

>>95374173
PC? He stole it from Ana, which says a lot more about it. Not saying there isn't some truth there, but I think the big point of S3 was not to listen to other people, regardless of whether it's "good" advice or not. Consider the thing with Greg Kinglear, for example.

>>95366340
Nah, Diane is a terrible character. and horrible person.

>>95373513
It's just sad and tiring seeing the lack of justice in the world. That and getting ahead takes playing by the rules. Being ruthless can get you ahead in your career and women but you don't necessarily want to be that type of guy.

I just wish I was a sociopath.

So, why does she have Bojack's diamond spot?

Also, that OJ Simpsons scene went right over my head the first time.

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>>95375174
Forgot the pic.

>>95375174
Because Butterscotch's mom, her grandmother, had a spot like that. He tells Beatrice in a flashback.

>>95375203
Oh, was that during Beatrice' ball? Makes sense then, thanks.

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>>95372555
>Jews

I forgot J.D. Sallinger in season 2. Man, that shit is hillarious.

>>95375520
That was such an epic reference. It really appealed to my Sensibilities!

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>>95365919
>That entire episode

>>95365919
Still wondering how long it takes until I stop being a teenage girl.

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WHAT THE FUCK

WHY CANT SHE BE HAPPY? I DONT CARE ABOUT ANYONE ELSE JUST GIVE HER BABBY

>>95360723
My god this show is shit. The only interesting parts is when bojack is in own head destroying himself.

Everything else is bullshit.

>>95375928
80% of the show is Bojack in his own head destroying himself. What more do you want?

>>95373651
>tfw he's gone

>>95376036
Yeah. That was a bit quick. Same with what his name mouse guy. I feel like Caroline's ending was a bit rushed.

>>95376024
>80% of the show is Bojack in his own head destroying himself. What more do you want?

Less of the rest of the cast who no one gives a shit about. They don't really do anything interesting and they take up far too much screentime.

>>95376077
>wanting less Mr. Peanutbutter
You can go and stay gone

>>95374080

at least it only happened to one character... so far.


everyone else is growing, and every season we learn something new about everyone.

>>95376116
>>wanting less Mr. Peanutbutter
>You can go and stay gone

Wanting more of the one note joke with the stupid name.

>>95371827
fame, family, whatever. People who don't know the true you, basically. I had a gf like that because I was famous in my circle she liked the idea of me but not the actual me that she got to know. Had to ditch her.

>>95374022
>>95374080
To be fair, this has only happened to Todd, who was always kind of a one-note character who basically existed to interact with Bojack. Plus, it happened as early as season two, so at this point, it's more his actual character than the original todd was.

I just watched Time's Arrow.

I never thought I'd feel bad for Beatrice, but this season did it.

>>95376119
I don't know, the whole flashback thing veered dangerously close to "it's all my parents/genetics' fault!" and Hollyhock is also basically "thing/person that randomly comes along and magically fixes everything"

>>95376421
It's been like that with Bojack since the first season. In the first episode of the second, Bojack's mother even tells him that she doesn't think he ever had a chance because he came from broken people.

This was just extrapolating it back a bit further, and showing how she took on that attitude.

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>>95376350
Beatrice... had a hard life. She needs some time to rest.

>>95366340
>If you claim to be alright with being alone you're lying, you're actually miserable and lonely on the inside.

Not everyone is like you, anon.

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>>95376350
>what happened to her and Honey especially
Yeah I think Joseph took the title of worst person in the show straight out of Bojack and Beatrice's combined hands

>>95376467
It started out that way, but the second and especially third seasons were building up to "you are all the things that are wrong with you," "you have to be responsible for your own happiness." What the hell happened to that?

>>95376515

Also, I thought it was nice that Bojack tried to make his mother happy at the end, even if it was a lie.

>>95376568
I mean, I think it still was that way. Bojack's biggest moment was when he finally got a chance to tear into his mother, but didn't. He decided to abandon his past and move on.

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>>95376563
Joe did nothing wrong

>>95376614
He was just acting out of circumstance, he was a child of his time.

>>95376350
Made me think Beatrice would've been a good person if not for Butterscotch.

>>95376603
Barely. Showing Beatrice's backstory was completely nonsensical. If the point was to show how Bojack was moving on and forgiving his mother, then it would've been more powerful if we DIDN'T know her life story and still thought she was an asshole.

I hate to be that guy but it really felt like the sole point of the flashbacks was to make some halfbaked "social commentary" about "toxic 40s patriarchal culture"

>reddit and memey for people that think they're above reddit and memey
>tumblrjack numaleman

>>95376726
Yeah, in the end it sorta felt like bad fathers are the source of all evil, rather than bad mothers.

>>95376760
The point was to flesh out Beatrice as a character, and to set up the "twist" about Hollyhock.

>>95376802
You sound like the ugliest son of a bitch I have ever heard.

>>95376858
>Yeah, in the end it sorta felt like bad fathers are the source of all evil, rather than bad mothers.
Are you serious right now

>>95366340
What is there to be depressed about? You have it so much better than most people ever had in human history. You're not some wreck of a human being with this deep and tragic past who cries because he doesn't understand life. Stop pretending to be.

>>95376879
No, not really. That was a rather sloppy post. My bad.

>>95376884
>just be happy lmao

>>95376884
>XD Whats perspective
You truly don't understand shit. Perspective matters no matter how you feel about it.

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SONO CHI NO SADAME JOOOOOSEPH

>>95377022
It doesn't when your problems are pretentious and laughable especially when there are people in worse conditions suffering even worse than some chucklefuck who wouldn't know true suffering if it bukakked all over his face.

>>95376858
>Yeah, in the end it sorta felt like bad fathers are the source of all evil, rather than bad mothers.
Beatrice played a much bigger role in fucking up Bojack's life than his father.
Butterscotch was just neglectful and didn't give a shit about him. Beatrice actively sought to hurt Bojack.

>>95376858
>HAHA U DONT LIKE MY SMART AND INTELLECTAL TEE VEE SHOW UGLY!!
you're seething.

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>>95375921

>>95377159
Well, and Beatrice was ruined by her father and what he did to her mom. So with Beatrice aswell, the roots of it all are her father.

Thankfully Bojack isn't a father. Not sure that was exactly the intended message here, but that is sorta the broken pattern that I picked up on.

>>95377180
Are you so stupid you even answer rethorical questions?

>>95376802
>>95376884
>>95377180
Look, I get that it's the weekend, and you're bored/lonely, but would you kindly go shit up someone else's thread? Would that cause you undue suffering?

>>95377236
I'm just tired of "Woe is me, modern living saps a spirit so much" bullshit that people tend to cry about in these threads (and in plenty of other threads as well) nowadays. I'm not the first or last posters. I'm not retarded enough to use reddit as an adjective.

Just watched the last episode.

Why do I feel so happy for a fictional character? Can anyone explain this to me?

>>95377222
>heh
>time to pull out this epic snarky line i got from twitter on him, it'll leave him utterly destroyed
and that's the gist of it, huh? bh is literally a carbon copy of r&m, with the same fake-smart epic speeches for emotionally immature soyboys to relate to, but it replaces r&m's "witty" vaguely leftist le schezuan sauce reddit sensibilities with "witty" vaguely leftist twitter snark, and you eat it right up.

>>95377396
Maybe something nice will happen!

>>95377424
Look at you. You’re so superficial you probably judge things by their physical appearance.

>>95377159
>Beatrice played a much bigger role in fucking up Bojack's life than his father.
But Butterscotch played a bigger role in fucking up Beatrice than Joseph did, somehow. She seemed like she had a handle on life until Butterscotch came along. So it goes Butterscotch>Beatrice>Bojack, though Joe did lay the groundwork for all of it.

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>>95377474

>>95377511
To be fair, it seems like she would have been progressive enough to just give up Bojack except but the horrifically traumatizing childhood event stopped her, locking her into a life of regret.

>>95377527
This artstyle seems a bit uncanny.

Speaking of which, did anyone else think the animation for the scene when Diane fired the gun was really weird. The animation was always one of the weaker points of the show (note: animation does not equal art style), but here it seemed just downright unfitting.

Anyone else here really like Joe?

Most of what we've seen from him was Beatrice's traumatic memories, but even then he seemed like he had the best intentions, with the mindset he could've developed in the era he lived in. He was a shrewd businessman, Creamerman seemed like he could've genuinely been a good match despite Joe's ulterior motives, and he was even prepared to give his daughter's deadbeat husband a cushy office job after she openly disobeyed him, which is what tipped the scales for me.

>>95377686

There's an argument to be made that most of the terrible things he did to Beatrice and her mother was hecause he (and most people of his time) didn't know any better rather than any actively malicious intent but there's a point where this stops being an excuse and you have to admit that he destroyed his wifes and daughters lifes for reasons that were practically entirely selfish.

>>95377686
You raise good points, but him leaving his wife alone with their daughter because he couldn't deal with her emotions was not just something people did back then because old times were like that. It was a dick move of a coward and an asshole. Sure, he didn't really understand women, but that is no excuse for not caring about them. Maybe he had his own problems, and we will get to see his childhood in a flashback episode of season 5 (doubt it though), but even tragic asshole is an asshole.

Also, I think offering Butterscotch a job was more a move to not lose face and regain control over his daughter, but that is up for debate.

>>95377686
Joe was neither a good or bad guy and the fact that everyone needs to see him as one or the other is emblematic of modern politics and the doomsday scenario we are all steadily marching towards.

>>95377805
Everything has to be political for you.

>the fact that everyone needs to see him as one or the other
How is that a fact? Where are you pulling this from?

>>95377496
You're sooo ironic and it's really funny, dude. I bet you know comedy.

>>95360723
The inevitable end for Western women
They had it all and they threw it away
Sad

>>95366340
What if there is a bug ethnic group actively working to make my life worse?

>>95377916
Your mom is so shallow, she probably thinks this quip is about her.

>>95377842
I have literally not seen a single post that isn't
>hey guys joe was a cool guy, dindu nuffin amirite?
or
>who is, and I don't say this lightly, worse than a hundred september 11ths and why is it Joseph Sugarman?

>>95365919
I have something similar but the voice doesn't criticize me, it reminds me of all the awful people in the world trying to destroy everything I love and everyone who has ever hurt me and now lives a happy life and never had to pay for it

>>95375921
Doesn't matter, we already know she has descendance one way or another

>>95378136
What? Are you refering to that future flashback thingy? Because Princess Caroline dreamed that up, she told Bojack so.

>>95378131
Yes yes, someday those fascists will be forced to pay for your healthcare, keep up the good fight

>>95378136
you got fooled buddy

>>95378122
He didn't do anything incorrect.

>>95376802
Congratulations anon, your post is almost 50% buzzwords without any meaningfull contribution.

>>95378210
And yet, you replied to it. Atleast I got him in a Xavier reply chain, don't make him break out from it.

>>95378122
I have seen plenty of posts trying to put him into a grey area and see him as a well-meaning asshole who couldn't handle the situation he was in and decided to run from it.

Anyway, don't try to put everything into some grander frame here, we are just talking about a silly TV show about a horse who is a movie star! How crazy is that!

>>95378210
*meaningful, dumbass.

>>95378262
x:ra is 12 oz mouse/ typical AS shithumor for people who think they're above 12 oz mouse/ typical AS shithumor and i'm happy i'm not enough of a manchild to be able to catch on. your entire life consists of insights and quotes from cartoons.

>>95378335
You are as deep as a soup bowl, and your tongue is as sharp as a soup spoon.

>>95378378
Hahahaha!! Hey guys... taste the pain LOL!!!

i've seen it, but it was so mediocre and insignificant that i forgot all the lines the day after. that fact that you didn't shows that you have so little information from an actual life to fill up your brain with, you actually remember quotes from le stoner tv shows to use on 4chan later.

>>95378423
Only a blind girl could marry you!

>>95378445
Suck my dick, I'm getting the last reply here.

>>95378515
Alright, the script ran out of non-specific lines here. Take one last shot at me.

>>95377686
Every line he had was either funny or fucked up. I loved his character

>>95378541
I was just going to continue to reply with "suck my dick" until you realized the futility of what you were doing, so suck my dick.

>>95373651
Judah did nothing wrong

After rewatching the earlier seasons over this week 3 really sticks out like a sore thumb. The Oscar arc isn't engaging at all, and while the last 3 episodes are good everything else just feels so meh. Most of season 4 was amazing though, so I'm glad they learned from it

>>95377572

i think it was all meant to reference this

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=j6Ex2rVOUWs

>>95378631
He did a little bit wrong, but it was well-intended atleast. However I think the guy with the cleanest vest is mouse guy. Either him or Vincent Adultman.

>>95378663
Yeah, I also thought season 3 was kinda weak and it made me not really that hyped for season 4, but season 4 turned out to be my favourite so far.
Before, I have always kinda seen season 1 as the best, even if 2 and 3 kinda had the better episode-to-episode quality. Season 4 now has both: a good overarching plot and high episode to episode quality.

>>95378665
Eh. The episode in general might have been a reference, but the angles themselves were totally different.

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>>95378631
Firing Judah was a real kick in the teeth. I know it was wrong of him and she was justified, but you'd think she'd be willing to give a second chance with all the shit shes forgiven Bojack for over the years. I really hope he shows up again.

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>>95378823
>However I think the guy with the cleanest vest is mouse guy.
I thought so too at first, but now I think his main fault was being too timid when his girlfriend was distraught. I think that was the point of their idyllic relationship was he could take a stand, shown with his family, but couldn't take action in private because it wasn't as easy. Still a good mouse, but not wholly perfect.
>Vincent Adultman.
Kept expecting him to show up as a patient of the dentist clowns or to meet with Ralph.

>>95378631
Judah was PC's own personal PC. I hope he comes back next season

>>95376568
That message never left. Bojack still has all the tools around him to make himself happy if he tries.

>>95377063
>Stand Name: Sugar Balls

>>95376024
personally? less of the satire on controversial political topics

it almost always feels hamfisted and contrived

>>95378937
I figured the patient we saw was one of the kids underneath the coat whose face we never saw, instead of the head. But that's just headcanon theory.

>>95379004
I'm really glad the hint of a Trump parody was just a red hering.

>>95378937
>I thought so too at first, but now I think his main fault was being too timid when his girlfriend was distraught.
Well, cat and mouse, and all that.

>>95378823
>>95378937
>Vincent Adultman
Jeezy kableezy am I glad that guy's gone. For some reason out of all the show's nonsensical humor that grated on me the most.

>>95379055
He overstayed his welcome in season 3, but atleast the writers were aware of that.

>>95379052
>I'm really glad the hint of a Trump parody was just a red hering.

Bad news.

>In aninterview with Indiewire, Bob-Waksberg said that he didn’t think he could continue making the sameBoJack Horsemanin light of recent events. Instead of harping on the “small hypocrisies of rich liberals,” he wanted to shed a serious light on how the country was coping with the election of Donald Trump. Although Bob-Waksberg said there wouldn’t be as much of this in season four, due to the show already being written, if they were granted a fifth season, he wouldn’t let that opportunity pass him by.
>“I thinkBoJackis definitely very much about kind of the burdens of being comfortable,” Bob-Waksberg told Indiewire. “I don’t know if those are the kinds of stories we’re going to be as interested in moving forward. I know I’m certainly less interested in exploring the small hypocrisies of rich liberals.
>“I’m not in the mood to poke fun at those kinds of people when there are real, real problems that we need to talk about.”

I can only hope the /pol/ incursions die down by then, or genuinely discussing the show will become literally impossible.

>all firearms are banned
>"You just passed common sense gun control!"
>they neither linger on it nor repeat it like every joke on the show

What do you think is the best song in the Bojack soundtrack? Speaking all seasons.

I think it would be either the ending song of season 3 (Stars, I think that was it), or Lyla Foy's Impossible from season 1 episode 7. Also, of course, normal credits theme is pretty good, and the intro song is really good aswell.

>>95378175
when?

>>95379242
When she was talking to Bojack. She said when she feels down she imagines that in the future a descendant of her will have a speech about how great she was and how everything worked out, and Bojack said that would be fake, to which Caroline replied that it atleast made her feel good.

Remember how Caroline's grand grand grand grand daughter said the story would have a happy ending, but then the episode never cut back to the future and had a sad ending instead?

>>95379128
welp I guess it's time to an hero

>>95377063
OH MY GOOOD

>>95379432
>perceived difficulty in the future means you should kill yourself
I bet you would have also lobotomized your distressed wife.

>>95379474
Nah, but I probably would've lobotomized myself, though.

>>95379159
Sea of Dreams, it gives me a warm feeling everytime I hear it

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>>95379128
Damnit, I'm going to hope it's not going to be the same low hanging fruit jokes thats been going on this entire year.

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I'm not a furry but this show made me want to fuck a cat.

>>95379889
If 2000s Southpark never made fun of Bush, I trust the writers of Bojack to go about that topic more cleverly than just "Trump is dumb lol!"

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>>95379128
>“I don’t know if those are the kinds of stories we’re going to be as interested in moving forward. I know I’m certainly less interested in exploring the small hypocrisies of rich liberals.
>>“I’m not in the mood to poke fun at those kinds of people when there are real, real problems that we need to talk about.”


>hypocrite rich liberals
>not the real problem

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>>95379999
check'd

>>95379966
Before Season 4 I would've agreed with this.

After, I'm not sure.

>>95379128
Fuck, and I thought like the other anon. I mean. I was afraid because the fanpage news had headlines about "you can imagine what Bojack Horseman has to say to trump", and shit like that. So they weren't mocking it? I hope they don't ruin season five, they already fucked Todd.

>>95379128
So is Bob-Waksberg just in charge of the shitty B-plots that no one actually pays attention too? I don't care if bad trump jokes take up that part because my standards for them are already rock bottom, but if they take away from the actual good stuff I'm dropping this show

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>tfw you're depressed but none of these "deep" lines do anything for you
Bojack as a show just comes off as kind of pretentious.

I also hate that cat lady's voice acting and the animation in general.

>>95379959
she has an amazing personality
its only natural to want to make her smile

>>95380117
ok

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Who was in the wrong?

>>95380131
I hate you and other bofags for making this type of show popular and inspiring more shows in the same vein.

>>95380136
Well it's season 1, so it's always bojack in the wrong

>>95380136

there's absolutely no legal backing to the concept of dibs on a supermarket

you only begin to have any sort of ownership on something once you PAY for it

>>95380136
The seal, the answer doesn't change from thread to thread

>>95380190

Is the point that they were both being childish and petty?

>>95380159
its ok, chances are you enjoy a show I hate too, so it balances out.

>>95380211

not really, Seal guy was not entitled to anything and just tried to get his way over Bojack by the threat of authority and ridiculous drama.

Normally I would agree that this show is just depression porn for people in their mid 20s but Bojack actually manages to be funny at the same time as melodramatic

Is it just me, or did Butterscotch come off as pretentious in Time's Arrow?

>>95379128
So the show is going to be a criticism on Trump and America, the show itself will bring politics to the forefront even more so than it already does, and you hope that people who discuss politics dont come here and talk about the show's views on politics.

What i dont get is why the shift. Focusing on rich liberals' hypocrisy IS the problem with the world these days, Trump isnt the villain here. Sounds like this show was worth looking into but now itll just be another anti trump, colbert tier crapfest.

>>95380300
He was a bit cocky and pretentious when he first met Beatrice, but his personality seemed closer to Bojack's once he'd been forced into a "comfortable" life with a job he hates. Maybe it's because they have the exact same voice but I saw a lot of Bojack in Butterscotch.

>>95380117
Bojack is honest. Money doesn't make you happy but even a negative depressive and impulsive idiot is aware he needs money to keep the privilege of being negative, depressive and impulsive.

>>95380342

I felt like Butterscotch wasn't as good a writer as he thought he was.

I think the novel would have failed even if Bojack hadn't been born.

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Just finished this season and oh boy was it an emotional rollercoaster, in the end it was worth it for this smile

>>95380317
>and you hope that people who discuss politics dont come here and talk about the show's views on politics
I assume you haven't seen what /pol/ has done to /tv/.

>>95365971
Bojack is a really long and drawn out healing anime, in western cartoon form. Its going to involve a fuckton of suffering, until everyone finds a bit of happiness.

>>95380317
While I disagree that rich liberals' hipocrisy is "the" problem (much rather it is a steadily growing "us vs them" mentality), I do agree that Bojack should stay out of politics. The series is really good at doing what it does, so it should not try to do something else entirely.

>>95380342
Bojack superficially acts like Butterscotch, but there were always hints that all this talk about "legacies" and doing something "real" was just another deflection. It seemed like S3 was gearing up to finally deal with that in depth, but then 4 came along and ruined everything. >>95379128 is the nail in the coffin and once again proves that any time something good comes along, chances are it's just one of the flukes from the million monkeys mashing on typewriters thing.

>>95380427
>everything is going to be daijobu.pngif

>>95380427
The whole daughter story leading up to that was worth it. Bojack handled the general situation really well

>>95380551
I don't understand, what did S4 ruin? All it really did was go more in depth to Bojack's family history and have him establish the first positive relationship with family he's ever had in his life.

Anyone else feel like Mr. Peanutbutter's governor arc didn't go anywhere?

>>95380427
>tweening
This shit is disgusting.

>>95380551
>>>95379128 is the nail in the coffin and once again proves that any time something good comes along, chances are it's just one of the flukes from the million monkeys mashing on typewriters thing.
How exactly does that quote, that did not affect any episode yet, suddenly ruin the series?

>>95380627
Yeah, I really liked that.

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>>95380563
Bojack is a genuinely better person than he was at the start of the show and they have done a really good job of showing his growth as a person. The only real issue is they have more growth to do for other characters and I can't think of what they would do with bojack in a new season. Like, his entire story could have ended here and I could have felt satisfied. But he has to be in another season.

Literally the only thing more satisfying they could do to put together one more season would be Bojack actively "Fixing" everyone elses shit, but it would need to be handled extremely well.

The amount of effort he put into Hollyhock in the last couple episodes serves as a good premise for that, and shows his willingness to not be a "chandlers list" scenario, but it would be hard to do it while also making all the other characters get satisfying resolutions too. You would have to balance their own efforts with his in a way that makes a satisfying conclusion to their stories and arcs.

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>>95380427
>>95380563
I'm just amazed he didn't fuck it up.

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>>95380427
how much money is a rare smiling bojack worth

>>95379128
I love how everyone reads this and is somehow under the impression the next season will be 12 straight episodes of trump bashing. I mean, how sensitive can /pol/tards get?

>>95380716
I'm glad they managed to move away from the formula, I think they even avoided the traditional end-of-season F bomb.

>>95380792

this show doesn't get a lot of episodes to fuck around, this season already wasted too many episodes on Californian political bullshit and the episode that went overboard with was utter trash.

you want the show to go to shit just to tell off those pesky /pol/tards? get fucked.

>>95380792
I betting it just an one episode thing, like season 1's army bashing, season 2's Bill Cosby scandal, and season 4's gun control

>>95380818
Naw, Bojack use up the One fuck policy earlier in season 4 and wanted to say Fuck in front of his mother, but he didn't because he know it wouldn't accomplish anything.

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>>95376577
She knew it was a lie and that's what hit the hardest. She was never allowed ice cream and he broke the illusion by trying to be nice, and I think that's when she realized she had to lie to him and let him leave so he could be happy without her, because the best thing she could do for him is leave him alone

>>95379128

>I know I’m certainly less interested in exploring the small hypocrisies of rich liberals.

does this include the Diane/Princess Caroline conflict?

During Brap Brap! in S3, Diane asks princess caroline if there was something she wanted to say [about the abortion situation]. My immediate reaction to this line was expecting Princess Carolin to lament on not having any kids of her own and how diane shouldn't throw away something so many women are desperate to get

However, they of course chose a higher road, but in the light of S4's serial miscarriages, maybe they would reopen this debate

>>95380818
The F-bomb was never at the end of the season. In season 1 it was in episode 8, in season 2 it was in episode 11, in season 3 it was once in episode 10 and once in an earlier episode, but I don't remember which one from the episode titles. In season 4 it was somewhere in the middle aswell.

Episode 11 did really hit me hard, still think his mother was in wrong in any way it possible no matter how you look at it.

Also do you think Princess Carolyn and Ralph will end up together again?
And what about Wanda? She isn't coming back, is she?

>>95381024
Wanda was a plot device for season 2. She ain't coming back, unless maybe for a cameo.

>>95381000
I don't think cartoonishly big eyes fit the character design of this show.

>>95365235
This is completely unrelatable. It's why nobody ever posts or replies to it.

>>95381075
She was a good gf for BoJack. Maybe too good. I think he would managed his relationship with her better now in his current state.

>>95380617
Season 4 completely jumped the shark and undid everything that happened in the previous 3 seasons. After Todd's "you are all the things that are wrong with you" speech, suddenly we get a whole arc devoted to how apparently there's this deep trauma and possibly a history of mental illness in Bojack's family. After 3 seasons of Bojack attempting to find happiness in others rather than facing his demons himself, and getting punished for it, he suddenly gets a half-sister(who we barely see him interacting with and who gets almost no character development) who swoops in and basically saves him.

>got an actual killer to play Joseph Sugarman

Wow that's dedication.

>>95381128
I actually had the same thought, if Wanda had come around now instead of when she did, their relationship really could've worked. Kind of sad to think about.

>>95381132
>After Todd's "you are all the things that are wrong with you" speech
>talking Todd shit seriously
He is the worst character in the series and it quite obvious about this at the start of season 2

>>95381132
>suddenly we get a whole arc devoted to how apparently there's this deep trauma and possibly a history of mental illness in Bojack's family
Suddenly?

This was a well known fact since season 1.

>>95381119
I don't know, I sometimes feel like it is pretty relatable.

>>95381132
>history of mental illness
Huh?

Anyway, I don't see how season 4 jumped the shark. Please elaborate on that point.

But yeah, you could seeseason 4 as contradictory to that one Todd quote from the previous season, but then again, what a character says is not necessarily set in stone. I also don't see how Hollyhock "saves" him, since he is the one doing the work to better himself. Hollyhock is just his motivation for that.

>>95381132
Family trauma has always been a theme of the show, ever since very early of season 1. Bojack overcame that this season, and because of it he was able to make peace with his mom and have a positive relationship with Hollyhock. Also what are you talking about, almost every scene with Bojack this season had Hollyhock interacting with him.

>>95381284
>almost every scene with Bojack this season
Not him but he was was on a bender while being stuck underground for a week

>>95381319
So? They canonically were together for months. They interacted a lot.

>>95381319
That entire episode was awful and a total waste of time, but what >>95381335 said still stands. Every other episode sans 1, 2 and 11 has them interact in some way, with a few focusing solely on their growing relationship

>>95381226
>If I don't like someone then they are completely garbage and everything they say is automatically wrong!
Hmm...sounds...familiar...

>>95381456
What, no. It about how he blame Bojack for fucking his girl when he didn't want to fuck her, and I would bet if Bojack isn't there and it someone else, she would fuck that guy too. This is after Bojack save his life, twice, how he basically use Bojack's shit to get anyways in life, and how they started adding shit like a bunch of legends and crap to elevate him to some god because he got handed with these shit.

Chances of Bojack and Diane ending up together? Or maybe him rejecting her as a final sign of him getting his life together?

>>95381540
This, Todd's speech came out of nowhere and his "fuck" was totally undeserved. Bojack did the least to him out of probably everyone in the main cast, and he kept the useless leech alive for years. Easily the weakest of this show's dramatic moments

>>95381605
Parasite is a more fitting word. Leeches still have some usage in modern medicine. For fuck sake, he bankrupt PB in season 2 and PB still allow him to live in his house, in which he proceed to fuck him over with the fracking fiasco. Oh and he still use him for that clown investment, which he fuck them over with rabies and making money off of their misery.

Seriously, many things that went wrong is on fucking Todd and he has the nervous to blame his shitty insecurity decision on Bojack.

>>95381603
I can't see them as a couple. Fucking around few times and ruining it, yes, but being together would be like "Your are the worst" tv series.

>>95381742
>nervous
nerve*

>>95381603
Fucking never. The first episode was a tease about this when Diane try to contact Bojack, but when Bojack finally contact Diane, Diane shat on him.

>>95381742
He was also an ass to PC with the plot about the clowns, he is an entitled asshole at this point but nobody seems to notice him.

>>95381540
>>95381605
>it's an autists who don't know how to symbolically interpret wacky cartoon sitcom antics judge a character as if he were a real person episode

>>95381823
If you can't find a rebuttal beyond that, then why post?

>>95379159
I really liked the first season's finale song, Closer.

It was a song that filled me with hope for Bojack, and it meshed well with what was happening.

>>95381823
Todd a shit.

Next season is going to have Hollyhock dying or some shit and Bojack feeling responsible so he helps everyone else fix their shit. Or someone else dying. He has to fuck SOMETHING up real early in the season with good intentions and then the season will end with things being kinda not great for everyone. Everyone will realise things could be a lot worse or figure out what they can do to make themselves happy except for ONE character that will have a tragic ending. Anything else would just feel wrong.

>>95381823
PB does a better job at the wacky part and remain likable. Here is your (you)

>>95381882
agreed. Todd a complete shit.

I really hope he gets downplayed next season but I fucking doubt it. the entire thing with the drone throne and clown dentist was just screaming trying way too hard to be wacky.

>>95381927
>his mom dies
>PC gets pregnant of him but doesn't want a relationship
>he fucks Diane and pictures of them appear of the internet
>MrPB ends his friendship with Bojack and realises he is turning into a new Bojack
>Todd is uselss again

The fucking part where PC mentioned she imagined her great granddaughter talking about her. Got me like a fucking dog.

>>95381882
>>95382009
My point is that Todd can be shit and still make a valid point. I'm really getting the impression that you guys identify too strongly with Bojack and are just making up excuses to defend him and his "happiness" even if it's poorly written and makes no sense.

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> I don't know how you expect me to love you when you so clearly hate yourself.

>>95382215
Todd has actively brought the quality of the show down in every appearance past Season 1. Princess Caroline and Mr. Peanutbutter are both better at engaging in wacky sitcom antics while also being entertaining characters and having actual pathos. The only reason Todd hasn't been written out of the show like other one-note joke characters is because Aaron Paul is a producer.

>>95382046
>Todd is useless again
was he ever not useless?

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>>95382215
No, his valid point is shit since he himself was the one that cause the entire problem.
>girl is litertally wetting herself
>todd didn't say anything and shoo her way
>girl fuck random guy
>WAAAAH IT ALL BOJACK FAULT

> I'm really getting the impression that you guys identify too strongly with Bojack
Wrong. Like I mention before, if Bojack wasn't there but some other dude was there, Todd's girl friend would have fuck him instead.

>>95382215
Love when people say "it's poorly written" and provide no evidence as to what's wrong with it

Do the main characters have canon ages? I remember them calling Todd 24 once and Bojack and PB are middle aged, but do we know exact ages?

>>95382512
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VB74GuvPBh8

>>95382512
bojack is 53

>>95382543
Whats Bojack's timeline?

>>95380342
>>95380397
>If you want to get knocked around for a while how about you go tell your father his prose is boring and pedestrian? That always works for me.

Even Beatrice knew Butterscotch was a poor writer.

>>95382215
no, as an objective viewer of the show I don't find todd entertaining or worth screen time as much as the rest of the majority of the cast. He can be written well in a way that serves the plot and dynamics and makes his character an intrinsic part, but as it stands every time we cut to todd it feels like we're cutting away to a different show and not in a way that serves as a parallel or counterpoint to the show he's in which makes me think they just cut to wacky shenanigans to balance out the "muh dark feels" aspect of bojack which they don't need to do.

Basically Todd seems like a crutch the writers rely on when they're not confident in their storylines. He comes off as a mawkish compromise to bridge the gap between people who like the show and people they want to like the show. And it makes the show worse that they don't just do what they obviously want to and instead rely on stupid shit like giant bags of kettle corn on a drone throne.

I'm glad that this show stays good, even after years. Also I really care for some characters like PC or Wanda.

>>95382298
>>95382321
The whole point of that scene was that even the idiot comic relief character was done with Bojack's shit. And it was all of his shit, not just Emily and not even just the stuff he did to Todd, which was admittedly not much compared to a lot of the shit he did. Everyone systematically abandons him in that episode and Todd is the final straw. It doesn't matter how you feel about him or whether or not he's a shitty character.

>>95382388
I love when people continue to make irrelevant character attacks instead of explaining what was supposedly wrong about the actual speech in question

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>tfw you're just so very tired of squinting

>>95365971
Melodrama makes for good stories.

>>95382826
not that anon but todd's speech was weak because it wasn't earned and didn't feel deserved. They only had Todd deliver the final nail because he was the most dependant on Bojack so it was supposed to hit hardest that the freeloader who couldn't survive without him was driven away by how bad he'd gotten.

It didn't though because they didn't write a satisfactory way for them to reach that point, they took an easy cop out that didn't have any impact nor real emotional weight.

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>“You know what I do when I have a really bad, awful, terrible day? I imagine my great-great-great–granddaughter in the future talking to her class about me. She’s poised and funny and tells people about me and how everything worked out in the end. And when I think about that? I think about how everything’s going to work out. Because how else could she tell people?”

That shit destroyed me even harder than the standard depressing-penultimate-episode ritual

>>95376568
The two aren't mutually exclusive. Even if you came from a shit past that made you a shit person, ultimately the onus to change is on you. At some point you're responsible for yourself, your actions, and your happiness and telling yourself you're like this because of your upbringing might be true but it does nothing for you or anyone else. Bojack has had choices and always has.

>>95382826
Except, like I mention before, Todd was the one that causes this problem by not satisfying his girlfriend's lust. He could at least tell her that he isn't ready but he just shoo her away, and then he has the nerve to blame his problem on Bojack. Todd already had "enough" shit from Bojack in season 1 and try to buddy up with PB, only for him to bankrupt PB and he went back to Bojack afterward. I can't take Todd seriously if he come off as whiny bitch that started the fire.

>>95376614
Yeah, he didn't, but he sure as hell didn't do anything right.

>>95378826
She was in a bad place when she did that. You could tell even she felt bad about it.

>>95380699
Why is everyone forgeting Bojack is a murderer and doesn't deserve any redemption ?

>>95377396
Because this time, Bojack actually didn't do anythring wrong.All the other times he either completely fucked over his friend who pretty much had complete devotion to him, tried to bang one of his other friends children which you never ever do, and then not be a wingman for the last friend he had left and then banged the girl he was interested in. It doesn't matter whether Todd is asexual or not, which she wasn't aware of himself until season 4.

>>95378937
He shouldn't have walked away for good. She told him to leave, but she was clearly in an awful place. He should have just told her he'd give her space but wasn't ready to give up on them yet. If she has time to grieve and still feels the same, then so be it, he could let it go and move on. But by walking away so easily, he proved PC right about not being ready for hard.

>>95383124
He did try to arrange a marriage with an ice cream, I mean, that goat from another company. Even when she ran away and got a baby with some dumbass, he offer him a job just so Beatrice doesn't have a shitty poverty life.

>>95383124
Arranging Beatrice's husband would have been way better for her in the long run. It wasn't necessarily for the right reasons but she would have had a reasonably happy life with him had she not been such an impulsive slut.

>>95379959
She's unironically one of my favorite female characters in a comedy. She's very flawed without being completely unlikable and the writers let her make mistakes without either brushing off or demonizing her for them

>>95383218
He's not a murderer in any light. Sarah Lynn's early death was inevitable, that was a big part of it. Bojack really fucked her up, but he's far from the only one to blame.

>>95383218
Sarah was quintessential child-star damaged goods. Hollywood is what killed her not Bojack.

>>95382842
But I thought Diane is asian !

>>95380551
I think Bojack is much smarter than Butterscotch, which he gets from his mother.

>>95383218
>murder
She od drugs she took after she got clean while on a weeks end bender.

>>95383128
True, but at no point does she rehire him. I'm not sure why either considering things have been going south with Judah gone. Though I will say, I do like at no point were we shown Judah looking/hoping he's get a call from PC.
>>95383236
It bothered me that Ralph seemingly left for good. Fuck dude, call after an appropriate day or two of space. Maybe he'll try again, but I'm doubting it.

>>95383335
>>95383360
Bojack killed her by being the only one she trusted and being too self-centered to help her. That scene when Bojack is asking her to save the bojack show is clearly the moment Bojack pushed her over the edge

>>95383451
>>95383218
and the only reason she got clean was for the drugs to hit harder.

What do you think was the classiest and most mature action in the show? Surprisingly upon reflection, I have to give it to Mr. PB for his reaction to finding out Diane was lying about still being in a war torn country for weeks. I still don't get how the memory of that alone doesn't constantly remind Diane of why she's with him when she has doubts.

>>95381132
If you weren't speedwatching, you'd realize that Todd was partially wrong in his whole grand speech. Bojack isn't all the things that are wrong with him. Yes he was most of them, and that speech, along with losing the three real friends he actually ever had finally led up to the point in Season 4, where he was actively not trying to sabotage his relationships anymore, and then apologizing for all the dumb shit he did. Todd half-forgave him in that he doesn't hate him anymore and was a bit glad to see him again, but they're still not friends and barely interact in S4. Bojack also apologized to PC.
When the scene where Hollyhock was in critical health and sent to the hospital, Bojack legitmately though he fucked up, even when he was actively trying not to, and you saw him throw away his perscription drugs and other drugs, cause at that time, he thought he killed his daughter. Also Bojack is still clearly fighting his demons as evident of episode 6 of season 4.

>>95383522
Probably not, it's just something she said to self-depricate her but part of her really wanted to live and get clean. But she was too afraid to be alone so when Bojack came to her she did the only thing she thinks she!'s good at : partying and taking drugs. And that's Bojack fault, he only saw her as a drug companion

>>95380699
I don't think he has to actually fix things. He'd be awful at that. But I think him being a crutch for the others as they get their lives together would be a satisfying way to come full circle, as he's always used them as crutches

>>95381605
You do realize Bojack nurtured Todd's parastic nature, and sabotaged Todd's chance of becoming a respected director way back in season one. Also if you noticed, all of the F-Bombs prior to season 4 all came from Bojack's friends, the friends who at one point had nothing but positive feelings for him.

>>95383505
If someone's about to be hit by a bus you're not a murderer if you fail to push them out of the way.

>>95383657
>and sabotaged Todd's chance of becoming a respected director way back in season one
Not him. That one is on Todd. He had a choice in the matter and he play vidya.

>>95383671
You are if you're the one talking to her about you so damn loud she doesn't hear the bus coming

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>the short time Peanutbutter was with Bojack, he instantly put everything aside to help him out
>he even drank with him in a bar
>willing to give all the food privilege to Bojack in the underground episode
Dumb dog or not, Peanutbutter is really one of Bojack's true friend, even if Bojack doesn't know it.

>>95383571
Mr Peanut Butter is too perfect, he literally did nothing wrong until season 4

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>>95384074
I'm gay for PB and I'm straight, but he did a few things that weren't so perfect
>allow fracking in his house
>that whole underground episode with that guy from Scrub dying as a result
>admit he did the election for shits and giggle

>>95384164
I love PB and I love Diane, but they really don't work together as a couple. It makes me sad but they need to split up.

>>95381119
Its not that its unrelatable, but that its a horribly written line.

>>95384263
I feel like that feeling is too relatable. Especially when you're put in the place of PB or Diane.

You're in a relationship. You know it's not working, and that it will never work, but you keep trying. But trying only hurts you and them in the process.

>>95384263
Because whatshisface, Diane's former boyfriend, was completely right about her.

>>95385059
What did he say again? I remember he was in season 3 but that's the only season I never really watch again.

>>95384263
I think people should be able to adapt and settle though. What bothers me is that nobody in this show is in a good relationship, so it feels like Diane and PB are the token "relationship commentary" at this point. Even though they really aren't compatible and their drama is on the mark, it feels preachy and misleading about actual relationships.

>>95374022
>the dynamic between him and Mr. PB is comfy.

I'm very curious to see if they keep Todd living with Princess Carolyn next season and what that dynamic will look like

>>95376858
>Yeah, in the end it sorta felt like bad fathers are the source of all evil, rather than bad mothers.

Joseph fucked up his daughter, so Beatrice fucked up her son, so Bojack has to try to break the cycle (before he discovers that Hollyhock isn't actually his daughter).

>>95385258
That she's a miserable personality type and she can't tolerate the super cheery types like PB forever. They don't mesh in the long term.

>>95379999
>hypocrite rich liberals
>not the real problem

This. I mean fuck, even you have as low an opinion of Trump as the average CNN or MSNBC staffer, the hypocrisy of rich liberals is why we got Trump.

>>95385834
Oh yeah, forgot about that. Diane needs someone to be unhappy with so she can be truly happy when she really is instead of forcing it.

>>95385837
No no anon, you don't understand. Trump CLEARLY got elected because of his evil mind control machine, and the only way to stop him is to cancel out the mindwaves by broadcasting a nonstop stream of anti-trump propaganda.

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>>95385993
That explains everything.

>>95373880
Yeah b/c the government began to intercede and form corporation at that point and that is not capitalism in it's peak

>>95385993
>>95385837
We got Trump because of a coordinated Russian propaganda machine and that's just a fact.

Fuck this show. They've gone full SJW now.
Got to episode 5 of the new season and stopped.
Never watching it again.

>>95385923
Except we see how bad her relationship with Bojack is
Basically they get together to feed off each other's negativity and end up drinking and eating shit without leaving for weeks or months
I mean they have chemistry and are actually compatible but they do bring out the worst traits of each other
Some couples do that
Some people marry and spend their lives being bitter together hiding from the world and hoarding shit to replace all the people they pushed away

>>95386234
Let's assume that's true for a moment. Do you really think the best way to change peoples' minds is to beat them over the head with how stupid and wrong they are and how logically and morally superior you are? If, after everything that's happened, you're still too stupid and/or proud to think that a new approach is needed, frankly the Russians deserve to have their evil plot to take over the world or whatever succeed. And I say this as someone who's extremely self-righteous and terrible at connecting with people.

>>95383823
He forgave him for letting Diane spend months getting drunk and eating pizza in his home while pb had no contact with her and kept freaking out about what the hell happened
I really don't care that much about Bojack messing with Todd because Todd takes it and does mooch off of him and I also don't care all that much about him treating princess Carolyn like shit because she is his manager and we'll it's her job to fix that shit too
But doing that to pb who never really asked anything out of hi. That was one of the times Bojack really dropped the ball

>>95386654
I think Bojack and Diane could actually work if they both put in the effort to improve, but at this point Diane would actually be dragging Bojack down. They can't really end up together now, but I hope they both find some kind of alternative.

Why was Bojack unable to do one pushup when he did 47 in the first season

>>95386713
>Do you really think the best way to change peoples' minds is to beat them over the head with how stupid and wrong they are and how logically and morally superior you are?
Who said changing people's minds was the goal? Convincing republicans not to be retards is impossible. Convincing democrats to show up is easier.

I was rewatching the show and I had a question, why did Beatrice never attempt a divorce? She didn't really seem like the traditional type (like when she went to college) and besides, it was her money

>>95374022
But Todd was always that ridiculous. In fact i'd say he's going backwards in flanderization

>>95383579
Bojack didn't actively try to sabotage anything in any of the seasons until reality started closing in. Everything he's ever done was a more-or-less reasonable thing that any person would have done, at least until the point where reality divorced from his idealized fantasy. It's only at that point that he starts acting out. Remember that in Escape From LA, he first does the right thing by declining Penny, and only gives in once he thinks everything's ruined and he has nothing to lose.

The thing that makes Bojack compelling is that he's exactly how anybody would act if their unprivileged background didn't force them to accept reality. But he is privileged, so he continually chases after fleeting fantasies only to be disappointed when reality comes crashing in. In fact, if anything, Bojack is arguably better, more intelligent, honest, and kind than the average person because despite all of his shit and privilege, he still tries, and still occasionally manages to do something somewhat admirable. Compare him to Sarah Lynn, for example: she arguably did less damage than Bojack, but only because she'd completely drowned in a pit of nihilism and lived a meaningless, purely hedonistic lifestyle. While everyone else succumbs to the harshness of reality, Bojack continues to, for better or worse, chase after unattainable ideals. That's what makes Bojack a tragic figure, and incidentally why the introduction of J.D. Salinger into the show is extremely relevant and why so many young people empathize with Bojack even though he's so superficially alien.
(1/2)

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>>95379144

>common sense gun control
>is banning all guns

Yes I took the bait.

>>95388151
Bojack is, at his core, the angsty teenager trying to search for meaning in life. All the drunkenness and "toxicity" that he's become known for is just a side-effect of this central struggle(that and the fact that he's a cartoon horse in a show that is still ultimately a sitcom, so his superficial traits have to be exaggerated for comedic effect). Bojack never needed to learn to be less of a tool, he needed to find a way to get fulfillment out of his life so that he didn't act out in frustration. Every Season up until 4 has its share of drama and Bojack "Bojacking things up," but it always remained fixed on that central conflict. Season 4 completely ignores that conflict. Instead of Bojack's problems stemming from his ennui and search for meaning, they stem from a messed-up childhood and a completely irrational, possibly genetic, self-hatred. Instead of Bojack growing and finding meaning for himself, it(Hollyhock) just miraculously falls into his lap. I won't deny that there's SOME kind of arc going on in the new season, it just feels like it completely misses the point of what Bojack's supposed to be.
(2/2)

>>95387749
There's a scene of her stubbornly refusing the idea when Bojack brings it up

>>95388213
Does anyone remember when it is? I must've missed it!

>>95388327
Near the end of Time's Arrow, roughly the 18 min mark

>>95388327
https://youtu.be/QWbFuALLIDA

>>95373651
Judah was the only character I cared about this season. The writing has gotten really absurd and taken the characters who were previously grounded along with it.

>>95379889
>>95379959
I want to pet her hair curl.

>>95388151
>>95388193
Bojack himself has stated in multiple occasions that he actively ruined relationships because of his intense self-loathing of himself. It happened with Herb (in a way) as he completely screwed over Herb while he coasted on fame, and only when to apologize to Herb because he though Herb would forgive him, not because it was the right thing to do, and then he threw a hissy fit over not being forgiven. It happened with Wanda, it even happened (in a way) with Todd. Barring the fact that Tood is asexual he still went after the girl he express interest into, and that whole speech that Todd gave was more of the straw that broke the camel's back.
But nothing was ruined between Charlotte and Bojack when Bojack stupidly tried to make a move on her and ruin her marriage because of a drug influenced hallucination he had. She was upset, but she still gave him until the morning, still willing to be friends in the end. It was only when he succumbed to rebounding to her daughter of all people when she got rightfully pissed off and told him to leave immediately and never contact her or her family ever again.
Also I think youre partially wrong in the fact that season 4 misses the point. None of the further flashbacks even diminished Bojack's shitty choices in his life, it just added another layer to them. Of course Bojack feels and cares and its an absolute miracle that he can due to his upbringing, but Season 4 was more of the fact that it was Bojack coming to terms with himself and him fighting off the demons in his mind, and the voice that constantly tells him hes worthless and a piece of shit.

>>95388452
>>95388567
Thank you! I can't believe I blocked that out

>>95379144
That was a joke?

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>>95388164
>>95379144
yeah were they fucking serious about this

I finally got caught up with this series. Jesus Christ. How does he hang in there?

He has so many enemies, broken relationships, bad memories, and traumatic moments and such a rancid personality that I don't see why he hasn't killed himself or become a complete shut-in.

>>95389295
He probably tries to kill himself with substance abuse constantly but wakes up the next day. Most people survive their suicide attempts and they go completely unnoticed.

Also he tried to kill himself by driving into the pool and Mister PB saved him.

>>95379128
Season 3 and 4 sucked anyway. The show had a good run. I'm okay letting it die now.

>>95386859
Diane is Bojack's friend as well, and he did try to convince her to stop hiding. He didn't do anything wrong in that situation to PB, it was Diane's choice.

>>95388861
>>95388861
>Bojack himself has stated in multiple occasions that he actively ruined relationships because of his intense self-loathing of himself
First of all, the only time I can even remotely remember him saying something like this is when he was talking to the closer, and even then it wasn't actually him that said it. Hell, the only time he ever says anything bad about himself is when he's in "spiral into depression mode," and it's more of a generalized "everything I do is terrible and I suck" than "I specifically set up my relationships to fail."


Second of all, even if I accept your premise, it's important to ask where that self-loathing stems from. You can't just say "well he hates himself so he does bad things," do you not see how simplistic and reductive that is? By that logic, all he needs to do is get on some antidepressants or go into some twelve step program like Sarah Lynn so he can feel good about himself all the time(and as I recall that didn't work out so well). You'd also be glossing over so much of what the first couple of seasons set up. Bojack didn't betray Herb because he hated himself; in fact, as we see in the flashbacks, he was surprisingly well-adjusted before Horsin' Around(all things considered) and didn't even used to drink. His comment about all the goodness leaking out of him speaks to this: he starts out as starry-eyed and idealistic, and gradually his spirit is crushed by the harsh realities he faces in Hollywoo and beyond. It's also why he constantly revisits the old Horsin' Around episodes despite the fact that the show arguably ruined his life: he likes to pretend that things didn't turn out to be so shitty and that he can just live in the perfect fantasy he imagined his life would be when he was still young and naive.
(1/2)

>>95391281
His seeking forgiveness from Herb was partially selfish, sure, but the idealistic part of him really wanted to believe that they could BOTH benefit from closure, as modern media constantly tells us. His breakup with Wanda only happened after Secretariat turned to shit, which again plays into the "broken fantasy" framework. Of note, right before their breakup Bojack has turned to wallowing in despair with Diane and happens to be watching Horsin Around yet again.

Which brings me to Episode 6 and why, as much as I resonated with it, I'm starting to seriously hate that episode. So many idiots are coming out and saying "omg I have that voice too! I'm broken like bojack!!1" and essentially treating that episode as license to call themselves depressed snowflakes. Newsflash: everyfuckingone has that voice, it's called self-reflection. If Bojack has a problem, it's not depression, it's bipolar and/or borderline personality disorder. He can never fully let go of his wild, unrealistic fantasies, so his inner rationalism keeps trying to check him over and over, until it eventually just becomes a constant negative drone. Seeking to escape the negativity, he engages in more and more escapist fantasy, which his rational mind tries to asuage, and so on and so forth. He doesn't need to "defeat" or "overcome" that negative voice, he has to balance it with his aspirational voice. And having a previously unknown relative drop into his life and suddenly give him a reason to live doesn't solve that problem.

I'm kind of pissed off that they promised a "The best thing Jared Leto did in his acting career was get punched in the face by Edward Norton" joke and didn't give it to us.

>>95389269

I would just like to point out that if it wasn't for that actress having a gun Diane very likely would have got raped.

>>95391522
You know, when that scene happened I was 100% convinced it was just an elaborate setup by PC/Turtletaub/whoever to try and salvage Ms. Taken

>>95391322
you're a cool guy, I love how you take your states on factors and back them up. I'm even starting to agree on you in points. Hopefully season 5 will delve into the more of Bojack's issues. But I don't think you should hate episode 6 just because some people resonate with in in for the wrong seasons. That's just shoddy 4chan mentality in general. Don't hate a show or episode because of other obnoxious people, like it on your own merits and for your own reasons.

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>>95391507
Some of the jokes are hilarious

>>95391749
I liked the underground episode.
Oh shit that's just dawned on me. Fuck.

>Be Bea
>Beloved older brother dies when you're a little kid, mother loses her mind and gets lobotomized
>Have to grow up watching this shell of a human being wandering through your household
>Rich douchebag father wants to marry you off for the sake of his business, with no regard to how you feel
>Say fuck it and do your own thing for just one night
>Wind up getting knocked up during a one-night stand
>Oh fuck
>Don't want an abortion, but if you have the kid unmarried you'll basically be rejected by your family
>Find the guy you had sex with and tell him
>The two of you decide to try and turn it into a relationship and elope
>Move to the other side of the country with him
>He turns out to have no interest in supporting you, gets pissy when you get him an offer for a better job
>Can't divorce him because you don't know where else to go
>Your relationship becomes more toxic and drives your son away from both of you
>Other woman falls for your husband
>Do everything in your power to get her away for her own good, since you know what that man is really like
>Eventually be left to rot in a nursing home, with no friends and only one family member, the son, who hates you with a passion
>Slowly lose your mind, with no one who loves you around to comfort or care for you

Being Bea is suffering.

>>95391937
I stop after the fifth line. All the shit after the fourth line is on her. She created her own suffering and she should be lucky her dad didn't cut connection from her when she bail on him.

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So, Bojack got a happy ending, at the cost of everyone's happy ending, except Todd, he can't suffer.

I think the whole Beatrice backstory was played beautifully, specially in the 2nd episode, I loved how the past got tangled with the present.

And PC's imaginary great great great granddaughter hurt me the most, I thought things would end good for her but when she said that line I got broken inside, I cried a bit.

>>95386504

ok

It would be neat if somehow Bojack genuinely tried to stop being a shitty person. I get that's the point of the show, that he's shitty, yet it still seems like in a way it would be a nice change of pace. Maybe it could be a final season arc that ends with him finding some form of redemption and inner peace.

I think so.

>>95391322
I don't know if you're right about the root of Bojack's problem, but I at least agree with you about the self-reflection thing. It's sad that we as a culture have become so unfamiliar with what once served as a cornerstone of education for at least a thousand years.

>"Just pretend you are happy, and eventually you'll forget you're pretending"

F-fuck...

>>95392242
I really hope she gets a happy ending

>>95392538
Did you watch the fourth season at all? He puts in an immense amount of effort to be a better person, and it even pays off a little.

>>95392538
But he did become a little better person, he did everything he could for Hollyhock's sake, and didn't even think of it when PC came with the script, he said he would do it because of all the good things she did for him.

If that's not a better person, at least a bit, then you tell me what's it.

>>95392900
>>95393012
I actually haven't watched the fourth season yet anons.

Now I'll have to!

>>95393077
Well, shit I'm glad my post wasn't that spoilery.

>>95381182
>got someone actually married to a horse

Too much dedication.