https://www.bleedingcool.com/2017/0 9/14/brevoort-parts-secr

No one cares about your internet drama, Rich. We know Marvel is retarded.

>>95336777
Spencer on how the ending wasn’t just undoing everything with the cosmic cube:

"Whenever you do a story that involves the cosmic cube, people have a tendency to say, ‘well they’re just manipulating reality.’ The thing is here, the only thing Kobik did was manipulate Steve. Everything everyone else did, they did on their own. Delegating so much power to Steve, that was something they did of their own free will. Being willing to give someone like Steve an enormous amount of power. […] What you see Stevil here pointing out is ‘I didn’t force anyone to do those things. I may not have been honest about who I was, but these were things people did of their own volition."

Smith, on how Steve will try to see the bright side of being a Nazi:

"I think to some extent there will be some of Steve grappling with the damage that was done. Ultimately, it was a good thing because people know not to blindly trust authority figures anymore."

>>95336848
Brevoort on the new (old) status quo for the X-Men following Secret Empire:

"They had a moment where, at least some version, not exactly the perfect version of the dream they’ve always had, was there and has been snatched away again. Each of the X-Men and X-Men groups is gonna have to grapple: what does this mean for the future? […] Another iteration of The Man sticking it to the mutants again. […] The X-Men and mutantkind in general are kind of back to that eternal place that they’re in of being the unwanted outsiders and having to deal with a world that hates and fears them."

Brevoort, on actually believing that fans are interested in super-mega-crossover events changing the Marvel Universe forever and nothing ever being the same again:

"When we do most of the events, one of the things everybody wants to hear about is what changed? What’s different in the Marvel universe? This is a little more subtle than what we’ve done in the past, but there’s a sentiment among some of the people in the Marvel universe who would like to do things a different way. Good Steve has to grapple with this."

>>95336777
>writing things that people hate is good

>>95336777
I know at least two people on this board post regularly in the Bleeding Cool comments, someone post that image there.

>>95336848
>What you see Stevil here pointing out is ‘I didn’t force anyone to do those things. I may not have been honest about who I was, but these were things people did of their own volition

Yes, I'm sure Vision and Wanda wanted to be possessed/hacked.

What a fucking idiot.

>>95337669
You forgot raped. They literally raped each other while they were possessed. Vision actually had full consciousness of it happening and couldn't stop it...

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>>95337343
Didn't some marvel guy say that angry fans are better than apathetic fans? I guess they accepted that they can't please the fans nope, that's utterly impossible, those shitlords are literally unpleasable, it's not our fault ITS NOT and just go for pissing them off intentionally/

>>95337669
Weren't they also using mind control on a lot of people?

>>95337744
Brevoort said that. Its even in OP's picture.

>>95337744
>Didn't some marvel guy say that angry fans are better than apathetic fans?

Read everything in the OP image while keeping in mind it's the same guy saying Barf "made the right people unhappy and upset".

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>>95336777
MADE THE "RIGHT" PEOPLE UNHAPPY. GET IT!?

HAHAHA FUCK DONALD TRUMP AND FUCK WHITE PEOPLE

>>95336848
>>95337669
Wait wasnt here a hydra meeting, where they discussed several methods on manipulating and mindcontroll others? i think Mr. Hyde was responsible for some methods.
And didnt they have some reeducation programms and even soldiers that used police to force people?
That logic is really upsetting me, because manipulate steve, let him seek nazis to force people and than controll others. I guess >>95337744 is right, Marvel at this point goes full troll and tries to cove up they screwed up by pretend to be a retard.

>>95337744
Brevoort has said it multiple times over the years.

This same man a few months ago quit Twitter because every response he got was anger.

>>95337935
He's still using Twitter though.

>>95337957
Well yeah, everyone who "quits twitter" comes back. It's still funny to see him so surprised at the environment he deliberately chose to create.

>>95337867
Nah, he means paying customers.

>>95336777
>>95336848

>Frank
>Steve

I fucking hate when people talk like these are real people, call the guy fucking Captain America

>>95337874
They've been doing this stuff for years now, though. I feel like the original, 80s Secret Wars was the beginning of the end of that creative well that Lee, Kirby, and others drew from. Before then, most interaction between Marvel's supers were with the occasional cameo or team-up, or the team books like Avengers/Defenders. Secret Wars was full-on "every hero and villain in one big, epic event!" whereas what followed were attempts to ape that success. Marvel tried changing up the status quo to the point of even outsourcing their flagship titles to Image for Heroes Reborn, an alternate universe where Marvel's "founding" characters and teams existed independently of the rest of the Marvel U. Ever since then, most events have ended or involved a shakeup of the status quo, or hero vs hero with the success of the first Civil War event.
>World War Hulk: Hulk's cast as a threat (technically Hero Vs Hero) after being shot into space and is rightfully furious.
>Decimation: Status Quo shakeup where the X-Men side of Marvel suffers from a severe mutant de-powering to reduce an active, enormous cast to a few hundred mutants
>House of M: Status Quo shakeup where some mutants end up getting their powers restored and deceased characters come back.
>AVX/IVX: Hero vs Hero
>Civil War 2: Hero vs Hero
>Secret Wars 2: Status Quo shakeup AND hero vs hero, ends in the Ultimate U's pet character favorites being ported into the main MCU.
I'd count Secret Empire as another SQ Shakeup considering that NaziCap is still alive, and a city other than New York is destroyed. (And I find it hillarious that the moment that anything happens outside of Marvel's NYC that's even close to traumatic, only then does the Marvel Citizenry piss themselves over how horrible the tragedies are.)

TL;DR: Marvel has stuck to the same animosity-generating tricks for decades because it's become so creatively bankrupt.

>>95338146
sad but true. They think they take inspiration from these events or pay homages, but infact they just rework that. But not with a twist, but poorly and over and over again.

>>95338208
Compare that to DC, too, where off the top of my head, I can think of way more fan-favorite stand-alones or specific, ongoing runs that DC has made, compared to Marvel. Not to dismiss things like, Demon in a Bottle or Armor Wars, Gruenwald's Cap, Simonson's Thor, or Miller's Wolverine and Daredevil, for example, but has Marvel really put out any memorable, enjoyable stand-alone output in the last ten or twenty years, that isn't tied to some event or controversial decision (like One More Day or Clone Saga), or is only remembered as more of a cult favorite like Nextwave?

>>95338455

The most recent thing has been Vision, and it's too soon to see if that will stand the test of time.

Imagine if Marvel does keep it in print and decades from now people read it and get confused by how this was during that strange time when Falcon was Captain America, Thor was a woman, Carol Danvers was a man, and there were two Spider-Men.

>>95338455
Vision, Old Man Logan

>>95336908

New Tian was a land where humans were oppressed, and mutants could ruin their lives just for fun. Why are readers supposed to care that this was taken away from the X-Men?

>>95338525
>Vision
Fair point, but as >>95338518 said, it's too soon to really see if it'll stand on its own merits with the absolute glut of low-quality, barely-edited crap that Marvel produces.
>Old Man Logan
I'd argue that's still relatively cult-classic considering that despite it inspiring the Logan film, people don't really raise it on any pedestal as a cornerstone of X-Men quality, but I can agree that I was wrong. OML is well-liked and a really fun, stand-alone ride.

>>95338455
There was a big thread with that topic a few days ago

https://desuarchive.org/co/thread/95257649/

One of the conclusions is that Marvel has failed to keep good stories in print, which makes it harder to point at them and say "that's a classic"

>>95337669
>>95337743

One day Brevoort will leave Marvel, and then Wanda and Vision might have a chance of being treated better. Unless Bendis replaces Brevoort.

If only Infinity War could make them so popular with normies that Marvel would be forced to stop abusing them.

>>95336777
>spencer's honorable mention was the only good part of the book

So close to being right for once.

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>>95337753

Messing with the water and Faust mind control.

BUT THAT TOTALLY MEANS THAT THE PEOPLE CHOSE TO SIDE WITH HYDRA

>>95338455
Recently its a little bit hard with Marvels bad decisions. But i donnt know if you can dismiss Nextwave as some cult favorite without aplying that to DC things too.
I dont think that Marvel has really more than DC, but i would guess both have their fairshare.

But there are others fan-favorite stand-alones or ongoing runs from Marvel. X-Force, X-Men Legacy, PetAvengers, GLA (Vol. 1), New X-Men, IronMan Extremis or Planet Hulk.
I guess you are a DC fan, so its natural that more come into your mind. Im more a X-Men fan, so i can come up with more from that. And i dont really know any DC, just maybe Batman NomansLand. So i would say you are wrong, but i would be wrong, because im not that reader base and would have a narrow view.

>>95338610
That's a really good point to be made, too, an thanks for linking that, Anon. Doesn't Marvel have some sort of "creator" clause where they have to ask permission from a writer or their estate to reprint older material?

>>95338610
Thx anon.

>>95338610
>One of the conclusions is that Marvel has failed to keep good stories in print, which makes it harder to point at them and say "that's a classic"

It's arguable that DC just has more 'stand-alone' classics, while more of the best Marvel works tend to be long-form runs on a book, which can't be collected into a single volume, easily digestible by casuals.

For Marvel to keep things that are regarded as classics, like Miller's Daredevil, or Simonson's Thor in print, is going to take at least 3 or 4 volumes each. Something like Claremont's X-Men would take many more volumes. They probably SHOULD be doing that with classic runs, as well as keeping the Lee/Kirby and Lee/Ditko foundations of the Marvel Universe in print. But who knows, maybe reprinting whatever they can find that's got someone who's going to be in a movie or TV show is a strategy that makes them more money?

>>95336777
>"I think my favorite part was the Punisher reveal. That was our genuine biggest surprise. That was the thing nobody saw coming. I really enjoyed the fandom argument about whether or not Frank would do this and why he would do it.
Fuck you, Spencer.

>>95338914
>Miller's Daredevil 158 to 191 - 33 issues
>Simonson`s thor 337 to 382 - 45 issues
I think the "Marvel has long runs and DC has stand alone stories" is bullshit
Morrisson has like 30 issues of Batman (without batman inc and batman and robin) same as miller daredevil or 41 issues on JLA.
Even Snyder had 52 issues in Batman.
Mark Waid has a run over 85 issues on Flash.
you have plenty of cases in DC, Levitz/Giffen Legion of superheroes, Giffen/DeMatteis Justice League, perez/wolfman new teen titans, peter david young justice, etc etc.

Both have long runs and both have stand alone stories.

>>95338078

I actually hate when people say Spidey. That's the gayest shit. Or Supes

>>95338914
>It's arguable that DC just has more 'stand-alone' classics, while more of the best Marvel works tend to be long-form runs on a book,

Nice meme

>>95340855
>>95338078
fuck you, faggots. Nobody cares what the fuck you hate.

>>95340883
I have another one anon
>Marvel characters are more relatable because they are more human

>>95341076

>S..Spidey is my friend

Fucking pathetic

>>95336848
>Ultimately, it was a good thing because people know not to blindly trust authority figures anymore
Yeah. Could you imagine trusting Hilary Clinton?
*stares at camera*

>>95336777
>The fact that the character came back and was so important so made the right people unhappy and upset."
What does that even mean?

>>95341304

If you hated Secret Empire you're a fucking Nazi

>>95341304
It means Brevoort is basically just fucking with us at this point.

>>95341163
says the faggot on /co/ acting as if he's any better than a single person on /co/ simply because he calls fictional characters by one fictional name and not the other fictional name. Fuck you faggot.

>>95341347
There wasn't even a secret empire. They founded it in the same breath they revealed it. There wasn't any empire to be secreted for the entirety of the event.

https://youtu.be/raXZaOQ8IFw?t=3m48s

>>95341406

So triggered. Get into your Spidey pajamas and calm down

>>95336777
>Ultimately, it was a good thing because people know not to blindly trust authority figures anymore
I agree. Just because a Woman wants to be President, doesn't mean you should blindly follow her every whim.....wait....

>>95341475
Firstly, where did you get this idea that I like Spider-Man? Secondly, why are you so opposed to people calling characters by their names? Honestly, why do you think you're better than someone for that?

I even avoided any insults this time? You just seem pretty opposed to a relatively common thing. I honestly see it no differently than hating someone because they call them by character names they know are fake.

>>95341573
>I even avoided any insults this time?

Yeah playing the moral high ground after you called me a faggot twice isn't going to work. I never said I was better than anyone, that's you putting words into my mouth. It's just a dumb fucking name and it sounds stupid. No wonder the fucks at Sony used it ion all their emails

>>95341390
"We used a lazy Deus ex Barfina to resolve the plot, that will teach those nerdy idiots who think storytelling shouldn't be lazy!"

>>95336777
For all the shit we give Spencer we really need to give twice as much to Brevoort for being the one who approves all this crap.

The guy is a fucking quisling.

>>95341635
>I never said I was better than anyone, that's you putting words into my mouth. It's just a dumb fucking name and it sounds stupid. No wonder the fucks at Sony used it ion all their emails
whoa anon, what discussion is this from?

You literally said you hate people that call characters by their name. Not a specific character or name. Any character by their name instead of their alter-ego.

So fuck you faggot. I wasn't taking a moral high ground, in fact thats not really a good use of the phrase. I simply wanted to skip the shit talk and understand why anyone on /co/ would say something as stupid as "I fucking hate when people talk like these are real people, call the guy fucking Captain America" or "I actually hate when people say Spidey. That's the gayest shit. Or Supes".

>>95341813
>quisling
No. He's made clear that he is in fact the overlord.
Those of you who buy books with his name on them, you're the quislings.

>>95336777
>Tom brevoort said some dumb shit

Yawn. Marvel is still garbage, right?

>>95338628
> Vision and Wanda raped while Odinson does nothing.

The thing is it's treated as a casual thing, even played for laughs by Woke Waid, who does not even mention it's Odinson's Uncle doing the raping.

In terms of spite, casual treatment of something that is actually horrifying, and character assassination, it's quite an achievement.

>>95336777
>I really enjoyed the fandom argument about whether or not Frank would do this and why he would do it.
I feel like that's supposed to be the writer and editor's jobs, not the fans. Like, if you admit you're just throwing it out there just because you're admitting to have given up as a competent writer.

>>95342119
Disney needs to takeover. Yes, I said it. I hope those rumours that Feige is seeking to bring the mouse upon them.

They need to replace Brevoort and Alonso with people who give a shit about comics.

>>95342378
Disney is what got marvel into this problem

>>95344020

I'm not a fan of the mouse house but they are barely paying attention to some teeny weeny division that's run by a prissy stockholder that fucking brings in less in one year in GROSS than Disney make in fucking PROFIT selling commercials on ESPN in one fucking DAY.

>>95344020

Disney aren't known to have had any effect on what Marvel are doing, beyond a wider ban on any 'official' Star Wars product ever depicting Leia in the slave costume ever again.

Everything else is all on Alonso, Brevoort, Amanat, and the writers and artists they've hired.

>>95336777
>made the right people unhappy
People who like stories which have meaningful consequences and satisfying conclusions?

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>>95336777
>Made The Right People Unhappy And Upset
The right people being...your customers???

brevoot being an idiot is nothing new

>>95344020
kill yourself, disney is keeping marvel afloat out of the goodness of their hearts. Marvel is doing it to itself.

>>95336777
So he was only pretending to be retarded?

>>95340855
Hey Byrne, would it make you feel better if it was a little girl? You sick fuck.

Why is Marvel full of assholes and cunts? I mean Geoff Johns has written some shitty stories that I hate but I have never had a desire to punch him un the face.

Hell he's a pretty likeable person.

>>95348503
>I mean Geoff Johns has written some shitty stories that I hate but I have never had a desire to punch him un the face.

I have the same feeling. In Johns' case, I may think of stories that I really don't like from him like the Flash Rebirth mini or Brightest Day or whatever but I never felt like he needed to be punched. Ironically some reviewers I've seen who had a really strong reaction against Johns' work inevitably turned out to be people who do deserved to be punched, and not because they don't like Johns' work, but for other things (like there was a guy who hated Johns work and then later compared Joe Kubert working on Before Watchmen to Joe Paterno's cover-up). Usually I end up avoiding anyone who goes on some screed against Johns now, based on past experience. But Johns himself, I don't really have any hate for the guy despite him writing stuff that I hated or didn't like.

Marvel by contrast has people that can't outright admit that they were wrong about something and just chooses to instigate and antagonize any dissenting criticism further. I think the reaction to Secret Empire from MCU fans and the like was wrong, but it was a long time coming based on how they treated the longtime fans in the first place.

>>95338610
>nobody mentions Moebius' Silver Surfer Parable
damn, you're right

>>95336777
>fandom argument
Fucking everybody agreed frank would never do that.