So what does this mean for american comics when a japanese manga

Toyotaro does DB Super, not Toriyama. He just gives an outline.

>>95162413
>So what does this mean for american comics when a japanese manga does a better job?
The big comic book companies are making their releases in October. They work off of a different release schedule so little comes out July-September.

So in response, the only thing they do a better job at is attracting stupid fans.

It means we get a lot of shitposts on the subject.

How does BKV do it, the man must be a multimillionaire by now.

>>95162413
I think you posted this on the wrong board, friend. >>>/a/ is where people who care about weebshit are.

>>95162413
Nothing
Manga sold ten times as much a decade ago and nothing happened then.

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>The huge variety of stories that don't feel like they're edited by soulless executives and market test results.
>We don't doubt/dispute that. But their editors results are more interesting. The fact that there's a manga called My Girlfriend is a T-Rex.
>i've been to a few image expos when they announced titles and felt the same way. even the cooking comic was grim (and unappetizing)
>Im referring to starve, the cooking comic drawn in burrito diarrhea brown tones
>If you had to read either Starve and Food Wars, which would you choose? The one that actually makes you hungry, dammit. Guess which one
>a manga reader can go out and pick from literal thousands of long running complete gay romance stories, and you want $4 for 1 gay character?
>anyway My Hero Academia is read by more people in America than Batman is, bye
>As well it should. My Hero Academia is way more fun than Batman. Just sayin'.
>KAWAIII! MANGA & ANIME IS CUTER AND PRETTIER
>Sometimes, it's just the manga / anime aesthetic just appeals to some readers more, because it tends to be prettier / cuter than its American counterparts. Let's face it, Japan has mastered "cute" and the rest of the world just has to play catch-up...
>I feel a lot of American comics look weird to me--either they're grotesque or really realistic. Manga gives a "cute & pretty" option.
>When I was growing up, US comics were hard to find, had ugly art, and cost way too much. I've been reading an even mix past few years.

https://storify.com/debaoki/what-does-japanese-anime-manga-deliver-that-us-pop

>>95163552
>36,000 views
>1 like
Wow.

>>95162413

I'm just happy Paper Girls is so high

>>95163552
>The huge variety of stories that don't feel like they're edited by soulless executives and market test results.

I guess they never read Dragon Ball

>>95163633
Dragon Ball's editor actually made the Androids Saga better when he kept pressuring Toriyama to make a cooler villain.

>>95162413
>DB Super
>Akira toriyama
BULLSHIT

>>95163658

It wasn't just the android saga and if you found it better or not is irrelevant

>>95163633

that's one manga vs literally 80% of all american comics, popular comics that is.

desu i hope Marvel and DC die, maybe we will get something fucking original in the movie theaters for once.

>>95163552

>I mean, there's *nothing* like Fullmetal Alchemist by a North American creator.

what the fuck does this even MEAN? I'm so mad

>>95163805
>desu i hope Marvel and DC die, maybe we will get something fucking original in the movie theaters for once.

Are you a fucking mong? Even if Marvel and DC never existed, Hollywood would still be as creatively bankrupt as it is today.

>>95163811
She's saying Manga's more creative and that anything like FMA wouldn't exist or even live past a few issues if it was a Western comic

>>95163633
Why? Dragon Ball is a prime example how why manga is often times superior to western comics. Or do you mean the shitshow that is Super?

>>95162413
lol it means Alan Moore is still more relevant the the vast majority of the western comics listed in the pic

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Still relevant

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Also still relevant

>>95163805
>maybe we will get something fucking original in the movie theaters for once.

OK anon. Hollywood wouldn't be all adaptations and remakes it it wasn't for the damn MCU

>>95163834
>Are you a fucking mong?
Do you really need to ask? Of course he is.
>>95163870
He was referring to Toriyama being editorial's bitch.
>Dragon Ball is a prime example how why manga is often times superior to western comics
Of the examples you could of picked that's the one you go with?
>>95163923
Quit being retarded.

>>95163811
A not so grim adventure story that ends at just the right spot with good art and likable characters with the setting being interesting and robust (specially the alchemy system) with influences of modern day culture while still being original enough to hold its own identity (alchemy system) couldn't thrive in the Western audience due to Diamond's shitty distribution, cape comics and edgy stuff becoming too synonymous with Western comics, monthly release schedule, and that Western audiences wouldn't have patience to grasp all of it?

>>95163552
>>The huge variety of stories that don't feel like they're edited by soulless executives and market test results.
>japan
I didnt know that my girlfriend is X # 589 or boy get sent to another world #982 were such variety

>>95163870

Akira Toriyama was overruled by his editor a lot

>>95163937
Still more than cape comics and edgeshit
Seriously, Starve looks like a fucking parody
Reminds me of video game cover differences between American and Japanese releases

>its another /a/'s inferior media thread

>>95163937
well...its more than capeshit #3468 or capeshit #4579

>>95163633
The Buu Saga happened when the editor was told to fuck off.

>>95163965
In fact, Super is pretty much Toriyama AS the editor.

>>95163552
>The huge variety of stories that don't feel like they're edited by soulless executives
Oh you mean those stories that only get 4 chapters and gets axed because its not generic enough making the author make the most trope and generic plot filled manga which the Japanese consume since they dont like new things?

>>95163958
>inferior media
>greater variety, writers and artists getting noticed more for the talents, more animated adaptions, lack of filler artists, etc means inferior

>>95163933
>Of the examples you could of picked that's the one you go with?

What's wrong with picking DB as the example? It's one of the most iconic and influential pieces of sequental art ever made for both the west and Japan.

>>95163983
The West also has that problem

>>95163965

Fuck then he should have stuck around. That was complete garage

>>95163834
What does Anon mean by original movies anyway? Does he mean non capeshit?

That still isn't right since Ghost World, Scott Pilgrim, and others I'm forgetting at the moment got a movie adaptation.

>>95163963
/i actually like capeshit #4256 since they dont get stuck on a boat for 7 years because the author plays idolshit

>>95162413
only Japanese comics?

The best of the franco-belgian scene regularly breaks the million mark and i'm told so do Italian comics.

>>95164000
At the author didn't shove biased personal politics into his story.
Or maybe capeshit #4256 doesn't matter in the long run because status quo happens

>>95163939
That doesn't make it a soulless, market test result though. There are lots of good writers / artists who need a firm editor to keep them in check. The editor isn't some soulless corporate mouthpiece, but is often times just as passionate about the project as the creator.

>>95164014
*At least

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But how can I like anime when they are literally below cal-arts tier?

>>95163552
>While at Anime Expo 2017, I noticed that the crowds at this annual anime/manga/j-pop festival in downtown Los Angeles attracts a slightly different crowd that the other pop culture super-show, Comic-Con International (which, incidentally, is only a few weeks after Anime Expo, and only a few miles south in San Diego)
>While at Anime Expo 2017, I noticed that the crowds at this annual anime/manga/j-pop festival in downtown Los Angeles attracts a slightly different crowd that the other pop culture super-show, Comic-Con International (which, incidentally, is only a few weeks after Anime Expo, and only a few miles south in San Diego)
>For one thing, the fans at Anime Expo skew younger -- average age is teens to 20-somethings. SDCC tends to attract a slightly older crowd, maybe more in their late 20s - mid-40's. So looking out at a sea of fans (over 115,000 unique visitors over 4 days, a 15% increase over 2016 attendance, and rapidly catching up with SDCC, which attracted 130,000 fans last year), I wondered, what attracts them to Japanese anime, manga, music, and games? What do they get out of it that they don't find in American-made comics, movies, animation, TV shows, etc.?

Why is that /co/?

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>>95164014
>At the author didn't shove biased personal politics into his story.
of course the author doesnt since thats the governments job

Meh I can never respect anime or manga since they are basically bootleg disney cartoons

>>95163552
>posting an article by Deb "White is Might" Aoki
FUCK OFF /pol/

>>95164040
Variety. Less political correctness. Quality.

And don't fucking meme on me for the last one. The average anime is considerably better looking and more visually appealing than the average cartoon.

>>95164061
>posting an article by Deb "White is Might" Aoki
what?
>>95164056
Western animation these days is influenced by anime

>>95163983
There is a huge variety of stories that achieved mainstream success in manga. Stuff like Attack on Titan, Boku no Hero Academia, One Piece, OPM, Mob Psycho 100, FMA etc are all very different from each other. There is WAY more variety in manga than in western comics, that is not arguable.

>>95164089
Clearly. That's why you're posting on the comics board instead of posting on /a/ about the things you like.

>>95164087
>what?
deb aoki is one of those stormfaggots who posts about how nippon are honorary aryans and nippon will dfeat the american jewish media on stormcucks back then

>>95164061
Aoki's Asian and appears to be PC on twitter

>>95164087
Both influence each other.

>>95164119
shhh its just /a/ trying to justify their shitty cartoons

>>95164120
Nah man, she retweets anti Trump and pro diversity stuff

>>95164119
anon...

The best discussions about anime are on /co/ and /v/. The best discussions about comics are on /a/ and /tg/. The best discussions about video games are on /a/ and /co/. You know this to be true.

>>95164040
The main difference is concluded stories. Even the most popular, long running manga have a manageable number of volumes you can jump right into, buy the first volume and get immersed in a story and new characters. Western superhero comics don't have that. You can just jump into the last iteration of a character's story that has no stakes or lasting effect whatsoever. Or you can read an equally irrelevant story from 20 years ago about the same character. There is no beginning, middle and end to the character's story, there is only an endless number of pointless short stories.

>anime and manga is superior
>goes to cartoons and comics board
I mean its ok to accept that anime is shit /a/

>>95164119
Well, I'm not on /co/ to discuss comics that's for sure. The vast majority of threads on /co/ are about cartoons and live action movies / tv series if you haven't noticed.

>>95164136
>/a/
>Not denouncing comics as inferior gaijin trash with bad art, meaningless stories, and PC shit

Show me 1 just 1 good comic thread on /a/ using Desuarchive

>>95164136
/v/'s taste in anime is ungodly awful like somehow even worse than it's taste in vidya.

>>95164151
People who love comics are probably the ones who are the most frustrated with the current state of them. Admitting that Japan has a far better comic book industry than the west is just a fact, not fanboyism or an us vs them thing. I think it's hard to find anyone who genuinely loves comics who wouldn't prefer this industry to have the same variety and creativity as can be found in the manga industry, instead of what we get now with Marvel and DC.

>tfw CASPAR is only one step away from forcing australia tier anti loli laws in japan

>My Hero Academia is at number 1
At least the idea of what makes a superhero a fucking superhero is not dead.

Its fucking sad really, not saying its bad as there is a lot of love and care put into Kohei Horikoshi's work that its damn obvious that he loves western comics, but holy shit the characters that were icons and idols for those who grew up with them are just fucking butchered by witches who wish nothing but to ruin anything that does not go along with their piss baby agenda.

>>95164089
>Shonen thrash
>all very different from each other

>>95164188
>People who love comics are probably the ones who are the most frustrated with the current state of them
sure thing /a/

>>95162413
Manga is way cheaper than graphic novels and they have more content. They are all pretty much the same size too so they are easier to collect.

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>japan has some pretty diverse characters and stories

>>95164155
Not an excuse to shit up a board though is it? Make an on-topic thread if it offends you so much like the rest of us.
>>95164188
Then quit reading Marvel and DC. But then again you're just shitposting without knowing what you're talking about.

>>95164219
Picking a series to watch is like picking a random comic or cartoon to read. Not all of it is great, hell about 90% of the time it will most likely be shit.

honestly I like cartoon art style more than anime, but that's it. Now it hard to find anything to watch or read, both comic and manga story became generic and it frustrate me.

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>>95164219

>>95164188
>Thinking Big 2=All of comics
Casual

>>95164233
The colors are subdued and not burning my eyes, so it's already doing way better.

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>>95164219
>>95164251
Of course they have to look the same with the bug eyed sharp chin look, I mean last time japan tried to get away from it it became an abortion

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>I watch anime

>>95164250
Fuck you faggot anime is 100x better than anything the west can come up

>>95164259
Never said that. But because of the way the western comic industry works, small comics have no chance of gaining the same recognition as similar manga can gain because of the big 2. Every singly highly popular manga was at one point in time an unknown, completely new IP. Wouldn't you like seeing a comic book industry where fresh ideas had a chance of actually gaining popularity and recognition which would in return encourage more creators to try new things?

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>>95164287
>Fuck you faggot anime is 100x better than anything the west can come up
wew lad

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>>95164251
dey rook different gaijin

>>95164300
They get adapted for live action tv Anon

>>95164300
>Wouldn't you like seeing a comic book industry where fresh ideas had a chance of actually gaining popularity and recognition which would in return encourage more creators to try new things?
It already exists.

>>95164280
>I think I am so much better from reading capeshit and watching children cartoons that those japs who read manga and watch children cartoons.

If it helps you sleep at night anon.

>>95164315
see >>95163895 and >>95163913

>>95164259
of course they anything outside the big 2 is a nobody on the international stage just like how anything outside jump is a nobody on the international stage
Both medium are shit but you faggots are still deluding yourselves that one shit is shinier than the other

>>95164327
But I don't watch children cartoons and read capeshit

>>95164315
It does? You can count the number of popular non Marvel / DC comic books on 1 hand and even amongst those they don't even have a fraction of the mainstream popularity that popular manga have.

>>95164120
>>95164120
She retweets shit from Kate "tell me I'm a snowflake, or I'll commit suicide" Leth, and Gabby "how do you do my fellow latinxs" Rivera. Why are you blatantly lying?

>>95164304
Yes, The Sopranos. One of the greatest cartoons made.

I love The Sopranos but that was a terrible thing to pick as this is mostly comparing it to media that is similar. We are not talking about live action shows here.

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Real talk though the only reason comics is in the state that its in right now is because donald trump won, had bernie and his supporters played ball hillary would have won

How long had Fun Home been out?
Is it actually decent, or is it getting sales on Bechdel's name?

>>95164336
Jump isn't doing endless self-contained short stories and reboots of Naruto, Goku, Luffy and Ichigo, instead they are publishing tons of different, completely new material. So yeah, one shit IS shittier than the other.

>>95164287
You are being a weeb as this point. No one is better in my opinion and basically we can't judge both anime and carton as the whole thing, because both are too various in quality. It's like judging the entire books from a bookshop not the book itself

>>95164361
this
/pol/ made cartoons shitty

>>95163552
>If you had to read either Starve and Food Wars, which would you choose? The one that actually makes you hungry, dammit. Guess which one
This is retarded. I mean, I don’t have great love for Starve, but if you call it a “food comic” and then compare it too Food Wars, you’re retarded. It’s like comparing Hamlet and Princess Bride because they're both “fencing stories”. They use similar elements to explore entirely different themes with different moods.

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>the absolut state of anime

>>95164367
Then bitch on /a/

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>implying north korea wont surpass both DC/Marvel and Japanese manga once we drop a 4 nukes on them

>>95164361
>the only reason comics is in the state that its in right now is because donald trump won
>had bernie and his supporters played ball hillary would have won
There seems to be some small level of disconnect between these statements.
I'm failing to see why comics would have been better if Shillary had won.

>>95164392
That's about 10, 15 years old now.

And Mizore is still perfect, goddamn.

>>95164402
for one thing secret empire would not have happened or the pushing hard of minority characters since they would think that they won

>>95162691
BKV panders to muh diversity tards, without going full retard himself.

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>>95164327
>He thinks everyone that reads a comic book just reads capeshit

>>95164399
Anon, you can't solve all your problems by nuking them.

>>95164343
Then why are you on /co/?

>>95164416
I disagree.
I think they would be pushed just as hard if not harder.
I do concede that the tone would be a lot less bitter than it is now.

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>>95164426
>implying
cleansing nuclear flame solves all problem

>>95164424
Like anything not capeshit actually matters in the industry.

>>95164361
>implying hillary would have won against a fair fight with bernie sanders
hillary supporters are so delusional

>>95164424
The industry is dying because no one knows of your favorite non-capeshit comic, anon. There is Saga and Hellboy and that's as far as it goes for non Marvel / DC comics that have mainstream popularity and even those 2 have nothing on any remotely popular manga.

>>95164205
look at you, sucking up the capeshit like the outmoded dinosaur you are. indie fans have been telling you these things for years, but you never listen.

>>95164219
lol that shit has repeated pictures of the same character. GTFO

>>95164361
>bernie supporters
>not white women who voted for trump

women can't be "bro"cialists. make up your mind.

sorry. i had to answer seriously because there are clinton supporters who actually say shit like that.

>>95164219
>Emiiya Shirou
>Neutron Star
>Ichika
>Black Hole
kek

>>95164219
>>95164151
>>95163958
No one is saying anime/manga is the bastion of quality and top tier writing, but in comparison to comics/cartoons, even with all its problems, cliches, and tropes, it still manages to be ahead of the West.

It's like comparing child labor to a sweatshop. They're both shit but one still manages to have better practices than the other. It shouldn't be a struggle to climb from child labor to sweatshop status, yet the West keeps fucking floundering and then going, "Gee, what areeee we doing wrong!?".

>>95162413
it means that readers are tried of constantly getting far left sjw propaganda shuffed into every single form of entertainment and are choosing things that are not invested by sjws and liberals

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>>95164361
And this is something that people who scream /POL/!!! don't realize. Yeah, screaming about Vampirina being propaganda is absurd, but /co/ stuff really HAS gotten more and more infested with SJWs using it as means for their political mouthpiece. Often times, not even bothering to write dialogue or characters, but just having "black lesbian gives a speech about how great it is to be a black lesbian". Christ, look at the new PPG sister who is literally designed just so they can have a black Powerpuff Girl who stands out from the rest.

These are the types of people in charge of writing your Marvel comics who basically alienate Marvel's original consumer base and somehow gets away with it. CH Greenblatt got berated last year for saying he wished Nickelodeon would air Harvey Beaks more, but it seems to be fine for Alex Hirsch to announce he wants Gravity Falls fans to draw Grunkle Stan punching nazis (And some threw in Trump, of course).

Even despite the sales dropping hard (The only power a consumer has to telling someone they hate their work), the writers go and blame it on bigots. The level of delusion is absurd. Some people see /pol/ where it's not, yeah, but let's not pretend cartoons and comics aren't becoming a huge magnet attraction to people who want "diversity" and "changing the status quo" and "representation". Despite these people growing up in the era of Captain Planet, they all act as if every new gay character is breaking new ground. They don't give a shit about the character's personality, just their existence.

So then companies see all this positive feedback and think they're doing a good job, but then sales plummet and they can't understand these people aren't buying those comics. They're just people looking to circlejerk over diversity because it's the new goth phase of being cool.

>>95162413
What cape books from the big two were actually released in August? Plus this is only Bookscan, most cape comics are sold via LCS' which don't use it.

>>95164251
I like how essentially none of that is new becasue modern anime is 99% light novel moe-trash.

>>95163552
>Here's why you're losing readers to manga

Because they're free.

If niggas had to PAY for every individual issue they bought? Nobody would read manga.

>>95165198
circlejerking over how much you hate diversity contributes to the issue, because that validates the idiots writing this crap and encourages them to keep doing that. don't fan the flames then bitch because the woods are burning down.

>>95165269
>because that validates the idiots writing this crap and encourages them to keep doing that
But sales figures plummet for that shit. A company doesn't exist to be some random retard's soapbox, this goes for both sides of the spectrum. They want results, and if they give free passes to every Kate and Gabby that want to push "representation", even if it means at a financial loss, the company is doing nothing but hurting themselves.

Even with criticism, these people aren't going to become better writers. They still think they're doing something great. Genuine criticism and flat out racist baiting goes in the same ear as one entity to them.

And if we can't speak with our wallets, we literally have no power in telling companies what audiences want and just have to pray that someone comes in and whips them into shape. What are we actually suppose to do? Sit around, stay quiet, and hope these people get fired soon?

>>95165254
I have a hard time believing there is much overlap between the people who pirate manga and the people pay for their comics despite them being just as easy to pirate

>>95164219
>40% drills

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>>95162413

Quite a bit of difference between Japan and the States.

>>95163658

He overcorrected though; Imperfect Cell was a lot better than either of his other forms.

>>95164444
quads of truth

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>>95164426
it works for chicken nuggets

>>95164219
Diverse Characters doesn't meant that they are all black lesbian Muslim trans people that hate drumpf and white people

>>95163811
It means exactly what it says

>>95164026
One example is Torishima, Dragon Ball's first editor. He would still call Toriyama to give suggestions and discuss ideas long after stopping being the series' editor.
The most famous case is that he suggested Toriyama discarded Androids 19 and 20 for younger and more strong looking villains.
The only of the 3 Dragon Ball editors that could be called excessivelly meddling was the second one (don't remember his name), who was his editor during the Cell saga. He was the one pushing for more Super Saiyans and for Cell to look more humanoid and less monstruous. Among other things. But even then that was his push for things he thought would be more popular from his previous experiences as an editor, not because higher ups on Shueisha were demanding anything.

There are a couple of things which should be acknowledged in any discussion about comic sales in bookstores.

First, this isn't a distributor problem. Sales aren't going to suddenly pick up if publishers switch from Diamond Books to PGW. In fact, if Diamond were to cease to exist, a huge swath of indy comic publishers without enough capital to enter the book trade business would disappear with it.

Second, for DC and Marvel, publishing is incidental to their business of perpetuating IPs. To the uninitiated, superhero comics are decades of fan fiction. It's not how "normal" literature works, it's not what bookstore goers buy, it's not how any mainstream prose publisher operates, and it's not how manga operates. Creator-owned books and company-owned properties will always be an apples-to-oranges comparison.

>>95162413
Nothing since there's no stopping Mahvel/DC from doing the same shit they've been doing for decades until they finally crash.
I can't remember the last time a comic was featured in a public limelight for actually being good, if that ever really happened.
They're just worse by structure/numbers; there's a billion fucking manga that can be made by anybody who tries and can be about fucking anything. Comics are so dominated by superheroes to the point where that's one of the only things that come to mind about them.

>>95166198
Why aren't webcomics dominated with superheroes though?

>>95166224
Because when you can make your story about anything, why the hell would you choose superheroes?

>>95165967
Thing is, even with the editorial aspect pushing it in directions for marketability, it's STILL a work with a singular director and a singular vision when it comes to it's art. Even the most nakedly commercial works are still like that.

They might have a crafted-by-comittee aspect, but Naruto doesn't stop it's story for three months so Naruto can have an argument with Ichigo from Bleach, and you don't have to do coin flips on whether the issue you buy on any given month will look like it was drawn by some tremor handed ape who can't even vaguely ape the primary art style.

>>95162413
Kind of a shitty move to use Visiual Novels sales to make a point about mangas outselling American comics, since American comics are mostly floppies

>>95165378
nigger, shit like ViewComics didn't exist until recently, there was the one that shut down by the FBI a few years back. Back then during the early 2000s you got shitty sites like OneManga and MangaFox to get your Manga Fix, illegal streaming sites for your Anime Fix. Unless you were well versed in it, downloading comics was a fucking chore (Which also falls down to how comics work because starting points aren't very easy to find but it also falls fault at the reader for being stupid that they can't google "Which arc is a good jumping point for X?"). At best I managed to download comics only by torrenting them, and you couldn't download them as they went by, noooo nemesis43 still wasn't a thing then. I could only download completed scans of popular shit like Civil War, Final Crisis (Man this went over my head reading it as a 10 year old), the only series I torrented that I actually somewhat enjoyed was Young Justice, which back then barely even had any seeders.

>>95166316
it wasn't till around high school through excessively snooping around did I find shit that managed to get them, there was a site that was consistently 3 months off release and had shitty watermarks on the comics you downloaded, and one that was more of a site that has rips of magazines, which coincidentally included comics. Good right? Fucking no, they all used shitty download hosts so it takes fucking hours to download something more than 200MB.

>>95163805
Cape movies have been the only good and original thing in cinema since the turn of the millennium, action movies are dead aside from capeshit and John Wick, horror movies are all shit and generic, rom coms died in the mid 2000s, no one goes to the cinema to see comedies any more save for those stoner/drug comedy movies with loud dubstep blaring through them like anything with Seth Rogen in it, 21 Jump Street, the Hangover and Let's Be Cops...a trend that's also nearly dead, all those shitty Harry Potter/Hunger Games/Twilight rip offs being spammed pretty much killed the YA audience, etc., and I'm not saying capeshit is keeping Hollywood alive but its one of the few genres of film that people actually care enough to still pay for the cinematic experience of.

>>95166343
>>95166316
Of course, I failed to mention that these sites often never had anything older than 5 years, fuck they didn't had anything older than the New 52. If you wanted to read classic shit that was actually good? Guess what, you gotta torrent em! And guess fucking what they often had no fucking seeders

That list is only adult comics. Raina sells more than manga by like a lot.

>>95163895
>with DC, found their editorial staff a joy to work with
MARVEL BTFO

>>95165310

You're forgetting that they've come right out and said they want you angry because you're paying attention and angry fans buy more. And if you aren't buying you're still helping them by raging on social media and keeping them trending high. They're benifiting more from your protesting so you aren't gaining power in that sense either. Indifference is the only way to kill this if you hate it. Combine that with speaking with your wallet rather than being their tool.

>>95166346

When you say all that, though, you pretty mean only Disney.

They have 1 Disney Animation film a year, 1 Pixar animation film a year, 1 Star Wars film a year, and at least 3-4 Marvel films a year. Plus all their other franchise films and films from offshoots like Touchstone and Miramax.

No other studio is succeeding in this current climate. Pretty soon, all movies will be Disney.

>>95164040
Comics seem vastly harder to get into compared to manga. That's it. That's why there aren't a billion MCU loving normies and kids reading comics because no one knows where the fuck to start or why the comic Avengers are different to the movie ones. Manga is serialized and just easier to follow and easier to know where to start from. Plus comic books in stores that aren't LCSs are harder to find than manga.

t. 19 year old who grew up with the X-movies/MCU and initially spent months trying to get into comics and figure out what the fuck was going on, if golden/silver age stuff was canon, if it was all just one continuous story and if they had any relation to the movies

>>95162413
What I find really worrying is not all the manga, but that with the exception of Saga, all the other Western graphic novels aren't recent released.

>>95164373
Indirectly, /pol/ values made cartoons shitty and that's why hardly any serious creators want to bother developing the medium because of the west's retarded archaic belief that anything animated is for kids and only just now/in recent years is that barrier being broken by libshits who came to love Regular Show and the first few seasons of Adventure Time.

So yes, let's blame /pol/

>>95163958
Only inferior here is you

>>95166426
After watching Iron Man, I decided to check his comics.Being total newbie at the time , found "Iron Man Ultimate" torrent, thinking Ultimate means definitive edition.

I was at first bewildered that iron man costume is a liquid that he keeps inside his body, that I need to buy other comics to understand whats going on, and I though why there is Spider Man in Iron Man comic and not Batman

>>95164131
More like /co/ is trying to justify their shitty cartoons by saying that japan has more problems than west has

>>95165310
you're meant to give the coldest shoulder possible to any discussion about shit books, and engage as much as possible in discussion about good books.
when everybody is talking about their shitbooks, they can just blame poor sales on the shrinking market or whatever. when their shitbooks are generating zero discussion, but there's shitloads of discussion about their handful of god books, then they're going to try and capitalize on that by greenlighting more books like it and giving the writers of those books higher profile projects
and because the good books are the only ones being discussed, more bystanders to those conversations are gonna remember those titles as being notable, and be more likely to check them out to see what all the fuss is about.

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>>95164151
You can think that and still read comics and watch cartoons.

>>95166465
this, and then there's the gatekeeping pretty much ruins getting into comics sometimes too.

>>95166465
Ah yeah that too, in case you oldfags didn't know; most teens/early 20-somethings who grew up with the X-movies, Raimi Spiderman and Iron Man/first wave MCU thought that most superheroes existed in different universes to one another so that's another pretty daunting thing about getting into comics over manga.

>>95164160
>Not denouncing comics as inferior gaijin trash with bad art, meaningless stories, and PC shit
They arent that weaaboos. Most of them like Hellboy

>>95165413
>#1
>1.5M
>#2
>183K
Jesus

>>95164280
>i come to 4chan but hate japanese culture

>>95166523
I remember playing web of shadows after growing up with the raimi games and feeling really uncomfortable whenever the other marvel franchises got involved with the plot

>>95166661
I remember thinking crossover comics were the coolest and rarest thing ever as a kid before I'd actually read one.

Late 90s/early 2000s kids were really set up for disappointment with comics, this isn't even mentioning how we were raised to have a complete intolerance for anything campy.

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>>95162456
>Damage Control: The Post

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this is the first bookscan in a while where manga has dominated the top spots
even last month this thing was the top seller along with Monstress and March

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>>95164219
Utsutsu Saya best Saya

I wonder if it is because anime and manga aren't spouting SJW leftist nonsense every couple pages or so and actually try and be somewhat creative with the plot and characters.

>>95167008
the book series March by John Lewis, a comic about the civil rights movement and racism, has been a top seller for like 2 years straight

>>95167031

But still it's one of the rare mediums where we aren't seeing this type of stuff forced into situations and everything feels creative and fun rather than being a propaganda piece.

>>95162413
it's just means diamond is still fucking over western comics

>>95167150
just going by bookscan, which is Amazon/Book stores,people aren't thrown off by that stuff though
even Squirrel Girl was a big chart topper for awhile on BS

>>95167008
Japan's a not especially progressive monoculture and anime/manga make comic book 'diversity' look like a fucking joke

Comic books pat themselves on the backs for throwing a bone to different genders, races or sexualities for a page or two every other month, manga or anime? I can buy entire series about that shit, easily.

>>95164219
>>95164305
What anime/manga lacks in design it makes up for in variety of stories and demographics.

I prefer western art myself, but let's be honest, our animations are mostly kiddyshit and LOLBLOOD/DRUGS/SWEARING/SEX "adult" comedies.

>>95167150
>But still it's one of the rare mediums where we aren't seeing this type of stuff forced into situations and everything feels creative and fun rather than being a propaganda piece.
You do have a point, the white supremacist community in anime fandom is pretty big. They appreciate that anime and manga end up just drawing superpowered/superfated white people and that there's few people of color (and if there is, they're treated like they should be) as well as women knowing their place

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>>95163552
>MUH FUN
>defending an industry that publishes child porn unashamedly

>>95167510
2D =/ 3D

>>95163895
Jesus Christ his writing style gave me cancer

>>95167514
It's still kiddie porn faggot

>>95162413
>10.- Watchmen
Does it still sell that well?
Kind of amazing.

>>95167562
The last TPBs released were re-issues of them (to prepare for Master Race and Johns' Watchmen crossover)

Here's a challenge, name 5 good comics that have come out in the last 5 years.

>>95167589
impossible

>>95167589
You could do this just by naming Tom King's Stuff.
Omega Men. Vision. Batman. Grayson. Sheriff of Babylon.

>>95167589
Ellis Moon Knight, Shade The Changing Girl, Hellboy in Hell, God Country, and Deathstroke

>>95167589
Shade, the Changing Girl
Loki, Agent of Asgard
Green Lanterns
Batman Europa
The Flintstones

>>95163552
>anyway My Hero Academia is read by more people in America than Batman is, bye
This is both sad and funny.

>>95167510
But there is nothing wrong with that. If anyhting it keeps real pedos away from real kids.

And stop being moralfag on 4chan

isn't shonen jump still stocked in convenience stores all over japan, compared to the west where you have to go to a book store or comic shop to ever see a comic for sale?
making sure people can impulse-buy your product while going about their regular day-to-day activities represents a lot of sales

>>95163658
That Saga was an outright clusterfuck that people only remember fondly because Toriyama distracted everyone with the major character moments everyone had been waiting years for. It's easily the worst part of the entire comic.

>>95163965
And it was better than Cell, especially when they decided the series was ending there and Toriyama was finally allowed to pace things how he wanted to.

Animeonlys and people who don't read comic books are where the Buu is shit meme comes from.

>>95167150

Because it's propaganda goes over your head and not relevent to you. Look at some of the manga and anime lately pushing a get married and have some fucking kids agenda lately.

>>95162413
I em just glad that DC made it into the top 20, while Marvel got a fat nothing

>>95166346
>action movies are dead aside from capeshit and John Wick

Whatever you think of them, the Fast and Furious series is insanely popular.

Also, Star Wars and Disney films are successfull as well... pretty much Disney is the only thing that's sucessful.

>>95165978
>It's not how "normal" literature works

Are you fucking stupid or what? Comics aren't literature nor they have to be. And why the fuck we can't have a genre where different authors can make their take on a concept? That's what makes these comics unique.

>>95167589
Vision
Flintstones
God Country
Sky Doll
Sunstone

and all are vastly different

>>95166387
That logic may have held pre internet, but now the offending shit is put up online. I've read all the America issues, but not paid for any. The Internet means I don't need to spend money to sate curiosity.

>>95168392
Well, there's that and the fact that 1) it's cheap and 2) there's usually not a lot of options as to what other manga anthologies can be bought in said convenience stores.

The issue with American comics is that they're expensive (even $3 for just ~20 pages will quickly turn people off; the $6-for-3 random #1 issues that DC tries to sell at Walmart are probably as bad) and even if they went with a full magazine rack sort of thing, there's just too much variety for there to be consistently good sales.

To put it another way, there's a reason why the candy at the checkout line is more limited than the candy in the actual candy aisle.

US publishers would literally have to copy the Japanese format: make anthologies, kill all their regular comics (and I mean *all* of them), and then make the anthologies cheap.

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American Comics
>90% capeshit, 10% edgy indieshit
>Art is either painfully generic and gritty, amateurishly quirky or grotesquely abstract, handful of actually skilled artists (Mike Mignola, Patrick Gleason, Adrian Alphona)
>Bogged down by decades upon decades of continuity, yet at the same time most of those stories are irrelevant
>Constantly reinventing characters rather than simply developing them. No Peter can't be a teacher with a wife and child, he has to be a world traveling billionaire (after he was a disembodied soul in his own body) and next week he'll be something else
>Shifting writers means stories and runs are ultimately meaningless and there is no consistent identity for any character
>Shared universe/event bullshit means your character/story is at the mercy of potentially less skilled writers that have nothing to do with the book
>Shitty distribution, not kid friendly in the slightest

Manga:
>Phenomenal art of all kinds, cute, macho, abstract and horror
>One writer, one (main) artist, one universe, actual endings. Even if One Piece is long as fuck, it will eventually come to an end.
>Art is more likely to get better and better as opposed to fluctuating quality
>Stories and genres of all kinds, for any kind of person. Fuck even old people got something to enjoy. Not strictly for 20-40 year old males.
>Distribution kicks ass, somehow manages to do this outside it's own country of origin, whereas comics can barely has anywhere to sell floppies in it's own country of origin.

>>95169808
>Shifting writers means stories and runs are ultimately meaningless
Why do people always say this? Nothing can detract from the quality of the story after it's been written.

>>95169838
A good story is a good story but knowing it'll get trampled or completely retconned later leaves a bad feeling in your stomach. Remember all those great stories about the fantastic four? Fuck you they don't exist anymore.

>>95169868
>they don't exist anymore
They do both though.Both on my shelf and in my longbox.

>>95166511
>gatekeeping

Back to tumblr or twitter with you.

>>95169899
I'm talking strictly from a continuity perspective, if continuity isn't important why do comics feel the need to be bogged down by it? The best stories in the medium tend to be the ones that have absolutely nothing to do with a character's backstory other than basic mythos. Dark Knight Returns, All-Star Superman, Red Son, etc.

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>>95169808
literally all that you said about Manga is true about comics too, except the shitty distribution.

>>95169937
Please explain what you mean by "bogged down".

>>95163658
Yeah, people shit on executive interference and act like It's always 100% bad, but sometimes an author needs some outside input. There needs to be a balance of the author's ideas, fan feedback, and feedback from a source that doesn't care about the series at all and can look at it more objectively. Very rarely do you get a good balance though and you either get George Lucas syndrome or the Kubo treatment from your editors/company execs.

>>95170006
I was reading Superman Rebirth and he visits Superbros' fortress of solitude, he sees Superbro made ice statues of the Kent's. Superman remarks saying "Why didn't I think of that" I thought it was a nice moment. I come to /co/ to read comments on the storytime and see people sperging out over the fact that Superman apparently did at some point before nu52.

>>95169838
Because escapist daydreaming is the highest pleasure that can be derived from capestuff. I need to imagine the heroes doing their stuff in their own universe.
If the next run, let's say, kills off someone or undoes something I like, then the universe is ruined.

>>95170185
How does that ruin the moment?

>>95169952
>Shonen Jump is the most popular so that means manga is 90% shonenshit
Meanwhile capeshit, while the most popular of all comics next to library bait is literally an overwhelming majority of comics and makes up the public image of comics.

>>95162456
100,000 units for batman against 2,000,0000 units a manga in Japan. Of course there're mangas selling 1,000,000 500,000 or just 100,000 copies like batman

>>95163633
we can't lie about this, Comics are fucked in that aspect.

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>>95168609
>Look at some of the manga and anime lately pushing a get married and have some fucking kids agenda lately.

How is that not relevant to losers on this board?

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>>95170675

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>>95170684

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>>95170707

Were it not for that killjoy Wertham....

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>>95170725

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>>95170738

>>95170738
Wow it's poorly drawn, it must be deep

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>>95170791
It's a fictionalized account of a trip to NYC and nothing more.

>>95162413
I can't think about one thing comics do better than manga so it's normal they're selling more but the only thing importat for publishers like DC and Marvel is money and they get their money without being more popular as books.

>>95169808
they don't respect their characters or continuity anyway, whatever sells becomes "canon" and we don't want to talk about "Diversity" and that cheap shit.

>>95171071
>whatever sells becomes "canon"
You have no idea what that means.

>>95165254
What illiterate person can't find the issues online?

Via a quick google search I found 5 online comic readers owned by 5 different people. And there are private trackers, public trackers, mega links, etc. If you can't find what you want you don't deserve it.

>>95171106
DC affirms Harley Quinn by Palmiotti is canon for God sake.

>>95171236
people on 4chan these days are completely computer illiterate. They have no clue on how to find torrents or download link, they can't even seem to find streaming sites. Every thread about a new show has a ton of people asking how they can watch the show.

>>95171106
And what the hell is Harley doing as the leader of the Suicide Squad.

And then we have to talk about all those #1 from Marvel and its diversity

>>95162413
They need to get more women into comics. Manga is popular in the states because capes simply don't provide enough shipbaits or schlick aid. Women prop up the big action, sports and melodrama series because these resonate with the female libido in ways DC/Marvel don't understand. There's also shoujo manga, emotional and romance bullshit targeted straight at girls and women without the need to be edgy or progressive.

In my country cape fans grow an average 10-11 months older every year.

>>95164040
QUALITY.

the big problem with comics is that big companies are a monopoly and think a writer is an employe, writers can't be employees workinn for a salary instead of a percentage.

>>95171415
The absolute worst part about modern #1s is that they aren't goddamn number ones. It should be law that #1s either be an origin story or have paragraph blurbs giving a quick rundown of the characters and mythos.
>Read Capeman '#1' (2017 grape foil variant) because I like the Capeman movies
>Capeman is a struggling alchoholic because his 2nd cousin fell victim to 'multiverse collapse' and became a robe and his portrayal is absolutely nothing like the movie.
>Left confused and have to fucking use a wiki to understand a funnybook

>Read Spikey Haired Fighting Dreamer manga vol 1
>Spikey's premise, goal and character is established in the first 20 page chapter

>>95171510
but women in comics are whores, girls usually prefer a purer portrait. Divorces, kids from several mates, unfaithfulness those things don't exist in Japanese novels for women.

>>95171581
hahaha I know, his second cousin from who-knows what universe is a good friend of Superman.

>>95165254
Then why do manga sell better even in the US?

>>95171728
Distribution, bang for buck, popularity of anime

>>95171756
(not him) better stories, lines and a design normal people prefer cause when serious it's beautiful while comics are always big guys using steroids, disgusting or strange for normies.

My two cents, even though this is/was a bait thread:

Certainly as of late, I think the lax approach of Western comic editors probably hurts American comics more than anything. Or, rather, it's the fact that editors do nothing more than just give decrees from people above them.

Editors have to be the ones to say "your art needs to be better; your writing needs to be better". If they forego saying that to just give guidelines about what the creators can/cannot do, then it's just a waste. My point, if I'm not being clear, is that in a comic market flooded with mediocre writers/artists, you need 1) good editors who 2) take an active role in the making of the comic.

The Omega Men is a fine example of a comic that probably wouldn't have existed without Andy Khouri and Brian Cunningham, given that Tom King was still a newbie and Barnaby Bagenda was on literally his first mainstream book ever. And the aid of the editors was probably due to the lack of blind faith in King and Bagenda -- the result being one of the best comics released recently. By comparison, I'd argue that Tom King's errors in Batman are more magnified due to Doyle (and now Jamie Rich) having a bit too much blind faith in King, potentially due to his status as a "superstar, award-winning writer" even though he's still something of a newbie.

Obviously, you might find other examples/counterexamples, but I think there's an implicit misunderstanding in the Western comic industry (i.e. "the most talented creative types make comics! so we don't need to make their work better!") that simply doesn't exist in one form or the other in manga.

>>95171728
Sheer number of fans, why do you think /co/ has only /aco/ while /a/ has like 5 other anime and manga related threads

>>95163669
that from a comic fag? Berserk is an excellent example too, wonderful epic story with ambient. With Manga we could talk all day about different great books, comics aren't like that.

>>95171818
That's another issue here; Japan manages these domestic sales numbers despite being an aging population of around 120 million.

>>95171756

I mean, the distribution thing should be way easier for the companies that were already here, wouldn't it? They kind of secluded themselves into niche stores on their own.

The bang for buck thing, though, is a definite point. A manga tome with over a hundred and twenty pages is what, seven bucks? That's less than two floppies. Yes, DC floppies are in color and in glossy fancypants paper and shit but honestly, it's pretty clear people do not actually /care/, they just want the story.

You know, sometimes I wonder how well a sort of Shounen Jump for a Big Two company would do. Like, you buy a big weekly thing that has a pile of pages which includes the equivalent of like half a floppy for *multiple* comic series going on, and it's printed in lesser quality paper and stuff, just for the people that wanna keep up. Those who like it can buy the trade, like shonen jump readers get the tankobons.

>>95172023
Honestly with the way modern comics are paced I often read a comic in 2 minutes and then suddenly I'm like "That's it?" and I'm out 4 bucks (Canadian prices)

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if this was a comic Mirios storied would be destroyed by another writer

>>95167008
of course it is

>>95168816
>Comics aren't literature nor they have to be

That's the entire point. You're selling non-literature at a place where people go to buy literature. It's a side business, it's not where it'll do the most business, and comic companies haven't been good at developing products to cater to that specific market. Stop being a defensive twat.

>And why the fuck we can't have a genre where different authors can make their take on a concept?

I only said that's what comics are. Is there a disagreement here, or do you just want to keep being defensive for no reason?

>>95172053

This is another advantage of the Jump model. Instead of having to price each comic singularly and therefore having to make them all expensive to cover so many diversified printing and distribution costs, everything is more centralized.

Of course, again, you'd need to severely lower the quality of the materials involved. You couldn't get any more glossy paper and fancy colors or indivdual covers. Shonen Jump Weekly is basically printed on fucking toilet paper, let's be honest here. But people do not seem to actually give a single flying fuck and buy it by the truckload, which I think tells us something. A lot of people just want to read these things, they don't care about having them be collector's items.

Now imagine, say, a Justice Weekly by DC. Every week you get this near-200-something page tome with a half-floppy of each of a bunch of ongoing plotlines - Superman, Batman, Wondie, Lantern, and the like for headliners, and then at the back there's also some more niche stuff that the editors aren't super sure of, like I dunno, a new Seven Soldiers series? Cause that's the advantage of the big Jump model - people have already bought the tome cause they want to read Superman, so might as well check out what the other comics in it are, right? And so it's a lot easier to get eyes on new series, which reduces the "well, the series was great, but by the time anyone realized it was already cancelled" that we've seen so much.

>>95172383
Honestly paper quality means fuck all when the art quality is garbage. I'll take something as beautiful as BNHA printed on toilet paper than Squirrel Girl on glossy expensive paper.

>>95172383
I think also including old stories would be a good idea too. Sorta like what they're doing with the current digest books with Archie, but those are overpriced too given their size.

>>95172023
>They kind of secluded themselves into niche stores on their own.
Yeah, distribution really isn't the problem. Direct market and bookstore market are different channels, and Diamond Books and Diamond Comics operate differently. Marvel isn't even with Diamond for the book trade, I think they switched to Hachette some years ago.

Comics and bookstores was a mutual breakup. Bookstores don't want to deal with floppies, and comic publishers didn't want to deal with returns but wanted to stick with the floppies format. The big two had only a paltry selection of trade paperback and hardcover releases until manga became popular.

If comics are to compete with manga, they need to develop products specifically for that channel and follow the traditional prose release path and price point, something manga achieved. There needs to be a product closer to the mainstream paperback.

>>95164188
>instead of what we get now with Marvel and DC.

Marvel is pretty much all capes but DC has variety. But they built themselves up on Superheroes. It's not their fault the rest of the industry is hilariously incompetent

>>95164361

>Real Talk

Spastic. Comics have been shit for years and Marvel was shitting on white people before the election

>>95169808
>handful of actually skilled artists
>Patrick Gleason
From all talented guys to choose....

>>95172894
I chose one who doesn't have a cookie cutter style.

>>95166543
One Piece's popularity is out of control.

>>95168609
>pushing a get married and have some fucking kids agenda lately
How the heck this is a agenda? It's the real life because people get married and have kids. This is the reason why humanity still exist.

>>95172943
The guy is extremely inconsistent in his art and too cartoonish. His art suddenly change IN THE SAME ISSUE.

>>95172705
It's a very small catalog cape comics is fundamentally DC

>>95173125
*are

>>95172471
Comics have some really talented artist and colorist. The problem is that bad Comics artists STAY bad while bad Manga artists actually improve and able to produce really great work.

I don't why comics artists don't improve. Not only that, but some of the really talented artists actually become worse.

>>95173089
>"It's stylized so it looks like a cartoon"
Enjoy your overly detailed stonefaced blocks of muscle then fag.

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>>95173291
>Enjoy your overly detailed stonefaced blocks of muscle
Lmao

>>95173391
What's wrong with her hand?

>>95173391
I always disliked the way he draws Batman and especially as Bruce.

>>95173391
His anatomy, especially with hands is a little whack here and there but he puts just the right amount of detail on the muscles to convey their form without making it look like fetish art. His heavy black shadows are also interesting.

American animation and comics are pretty much over. All that's left are calart rejects and greedy Jews trading flash "efficiency" for quality.

>>95173584
He has moments, but he honestly become really lazy lately despite being and I really dislike lazy art.

>>95167533
He is right, tho.

>>95164367
>they're not making reboots of Goku, Luffy, etc
Of course not. They're just making new ones that rip them off because Shonen Jump is the Japanese equivalent of Marvel and DC. Read something other than shonenshit.

>>95171385
>Canon
>No one ever mention its
Continuity is a survival of the fittest, only the best stories that stick to a writer's mind will ever matter. Rarely anyone ever references Palmiotti Harley.

>>95173050

Low Birth Rate in Japan for a variety of reasons such as work culture, so they're hoping to encourage the wizards, otaku, overworked, etc to start pumping them out by showing them that even they can find someone.

This has lead to series like 30-sai no Hoken Taiiku (Health and Physical Education for 30-Year-Olds), which is based on the guidebook of the same name aimed at 30 year olds who haven't had sex or a relationship before.

It sounds silly, but what else is new.

>>95170675

Because a majority of them seem proud to be wizards, hate women anyway because they're nothing like fictional women,political bullshit, etc. Telling them it's their duty to pop out kids and you'll get nothing but autistic screeching and tantrums.

>>95167008
It's because folks would rather follow/watch cape movies or tv shows than try to figure out which captain America issue they should start with.

>>95172383
Comics when they first came out: 10¢, adjusted for inflation that would be 87¢
Comics today: $3.99

Even with the rise of quality in the paper, ink, etc it just seems like a bad deal for one off entertainment.

>>95162691
BKV has a lot of friends in the media that promote whatever he releases. They don't even show Grant Morrison that kind of deference.

>>95172383
Anthologies are a money pit though. It's very hard to get people to buy a compilation of new content that'll end up costing them more than if they had just bought said stories individually. Shops aren't going to stock something that's going languish and take space on their shelves.

We don't even need to go back far for recent examples of this failing. How many people remember DC's Legends of Tomorrow and Image's ISLAND?

>>95171728
Price and access. Comics are fucking expensive, and all the graphic novels are drowned out by capeshit so people who would want singular stories have a hard time finding them or just get turned off by all the capeshit. Manga is also sold in more places than just comic stores

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>>95168816
>And why the fuck we can't have a genre where different authors can make their take on a concept? That's what makes these comics unique.
just look outside of capeshit for tons of unique stuff

>>95162413

Maybe if the copywrite laws didn't let and encourage them to keep writing the same thing over and over something new would be made.

They need to do like the japanese and make comics specifically for women instead of ruining men's comics

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>>95168816
>And why the fuck we can't have a genre where different authors can make their take on a concept? That's what makes these comics unique.

>>95179324
When they do that bitter 35 year olds just endlessly whine about how those books are bad for not being what they want anyway

>>95179207
The same copyright laws apply to prose fiction. That doesn't cause books to be rehashed.

Japanese copyright protection lasts 50 years after death, and will soon be extended to 70 years. Not causing an issue with manga either.

>>95179324
they do. and /co/ whines cause its not aimed at them. who do you think the target audience for Hellcat and Squirrel girl are?

>>95179709
Mockingbird and Wasp too.

>>95179522
What about trademark law? Can superman's likeness be used by a company forever in japan?

Not him btw and not sure if this has anything to do with originality in American comics. I think the problem is Americans who keep buying capeshit.

>>95179813
>What about trademark law?
I haven't a clue, but I would venture to say it's similar to the US.

>Not him btw and not sure if this has anything to do with originality in American comics.

It does, and it doesn't.

We need to be clear about what are consequences of law, and what are consequences of business behavior. Japan and America operate under very similar copyright laws, so that couldn't explain the disparity in the number of new IPs being created. However, Japanese manga publishers treat manga artists the way prose publishers treat authors. The authors keep the copyright to their works. Marvel and DC largely owns their IPs. That's the real difference.

>>95164219
HAHAHAHA
I lost it with whit the saber face

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>>95162413
American comics used to be good

But manga just fucking blows it out of the water. The sheer diversity and passion put into manga on top of the ubiquitous accessibility makes it a better choice for entertainment.

>>95164336
man you really don't know anything Jump doesn't own anything like DC and Marvel do and in Japan things like Luffy and Ichigo are for little kids when you talk to Japaneses they make jokes about Luffy being shit, even other mangas make jokes about it. Jump is not Japan and the best mangas aren't published there.

Shingeki no Kyojin the most popular anime on the international stage isn't published in Jump, it was published for a very small editorial that got the fat one, most classic mangas weren't published in Jump. There's nothing in Japan like DC and Marvel.

In fact Jump is dedicated to shounen (mangas for kids and teenagers) while the best stories are seinens (stories for adults though it doesn't mean they're porn or something but more complicated, less commercial, more gore, more gritty)

>>95164119
/a/ has actual moderation

>>95163811
there's *nothing* like Fullmetal Alchemist by a North American creator.

>>95162413
This thread is hilarious. No one in this thread knows anything about manga or comics

>>95182265
The Books of Magic.

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>>95162413
>Serenity: no power in the verse
Fuck ye-

>Joss Whedon
Oh, its the bad Serenity.

>>95171797
You've definitely got a point. It's common to hear about of boneheaded editors who fucked up a story, but you rarely hear stories about how a good editor helped bring a project to the next level. No one seems to know how to appreciate good editors.

>>95182313
be serious mate.

>>95182265
FMA isn't even a wild example.

There's manga about goddamned everything imaginable.

>>95179709
2 titles! ha!

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So I finally caved and saw Hero Academia. This boy is officially my new favorite superhero. He's fucking adorable, and the action is god tier. Maternal instinct kicked into maximum overdrive.

>>95162453
Funny part about owning the property, your name always gets pushed to the top regardless of work done. Just ask Jim Davis.

>>95171236
The variety of online comic readers normally suck. At least compared to the selection you have when it comes to manga.

>>95166543
>>95172987

One Piece is up over the 400 million mark in total volume sales.

>>95164144
Sandman

>>95165720
Yeah. Apparently it means they're all fuckable Japanese 12 year olds.

>>95182608

All Might agrees with you. Dude has basically become Deku's official dad.

>>95183849
*tips fedora*

>>95168757
Marvel always sucks at trades. Besides, they don't really have classics that crossed over to the mainstream audience like Watchmen, Killing Joke or The Dark Knight Returns.

>>95162413
>a few bucks for over hundreds of pages
>vs. 20 bucks for a hundred pages, tops
Yeah it's a complete mystery why manga outsells the big two and friends!

They would never be able to switch to the cheaper manga format because that would be a huge upheaval to the current comic printing system's industry. They're trapped like how they're also trapped by Diamond like >>95163913 posted. They're double fucked.

>>95162413
>They try to sell comics and not "messages".
>They don't change the art/writer every other issue.
>they are cheaper. You get more sites for a dollar
>No wall of text

>>95185515
>>a few bucks for over hundreds of pages
>>vs. 20 bucks for a hundred pages, tops
And unlike Corperate Comix there isn't an enforced Reset Button: death in comics ( as well as anything else ) is completely meaningless. How many times has Superman died? How many times has Spider-Man unmasked? Who seriously thinks that The Joker/Kingpin is "going away for a really long time" now that he's "finally been brought to justice"?

And how much WORSE has this gotten now that a new writer is pretty much guaranteed to ignore/retcon the shit out of things that just happened last month? Or musical chair artists who clearly can't be arsed to stay On Model?

Big Two comics are like Network Police Procedurals: they're apparently comfort food for an every shrinking demographic that's JUST big enough for them to still be catered to.

>>95167510
Don't worry anon, the 2020 olympics will probably destory lolicon.

>>95186152
>implying
Japs dont care if some gaijin faggot founds out about lolicon stuff

>>95182417
not that anon but Books of Magic stands head and shoulders above most comics. It's right up at the pinnacle of Vertigo with Sandman, Swamp Thing and Hellblazer

>>95184080
>Marvel always sucks at trades.

they genuinely suck at everything they touch

>>95187681
They do good Omni's. Just about to reprint Simonson's Thor

>>95163936
>monthly release schedule
FMA was monthly just like other thousands of manga

Retard

>>95182608
So you've never read any manga before?

He's as generic as it gets just like the rest of hero academia

>>95186152
>implying they'll destroy a billion dollar industry for one event
they'll just sweep it under the rug until the olympics are over.

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>>95162413
It means nothing, manga always sold more than comics

>>95187992
Everything is generic to someone

>>95162704
Manga by definition is not weeb, and 4chan in its entirety is an anime site.

>>95164056
This meme is pants-on-head retarded. Anime is nothing like Disney, today or historically, and anyone with a functioning brain should be able to see it very easily. Manga is also very different from American comics. I can only assume people who post this meme have no knowledge of either yet feel oddly confident in proclaiming that they are copies of Disney.

>>95164201
Shounen is a demographic, not a genre. Even if it was a genre, works within the same genre are not all the same, and a genre itself is not trash.

>>95164219
It does, and your image does nothing to argue against that fact.

>>95164279
"Japan" did not try to "get away" from anything, and it's like you didn't even look at >>95164251

>>95164327
Most anime is not made for children, and anime and cartoons are two different things.

>>95164392
There are somewhere between 30 and 50 new full length shows every season. What's your point?

>>95188880
I don't think that is true before the 90s crash.

>>95189128
>Shounen is a demographic, not a genre. Even if it was a genre, works within the same genre are not all the same, and a genre itself is not trash.
>Most anime is not made for children, and anime and cartoons are two different things.
If shounen and shoujo are demographics and not genres, then you just proved yourself wrong. MAL lists ~11,000 Shounen and Shoujo manga compared to ~8000 Josei and Seinen. The majority of anime and manga are made for children.

>>95189273
Shounen and shoujo go up to the late teens, and Japan doesn't have this neurotic obsession with demographics and everyone sticking to their own sandboxes like Westerners do. With a lot of anime you can't even necessarily tell who it's aimed at.

Also, most anime today is late night anime. Children are not known for watching shows at 2 AM.

>>95189357
Just because adults watch them more over there does not mean that they were made for adults. By your own arguments, the majority of manga and anime is made for children, and that's that.

It means you take a knife and stick it in your carotid artery for making yet another shit thread on this shit board.

>>95171624
>but women in comics are whores
Good. Let women see what they really are instead of an idealized picture weebshit loves to push.

>>95189448
They are made for adults and teenagers (I've never seen any evidence that a distinction is made between the two in Japan). Late night anime is not for children, and late night anime is the core of the industry and what most new anime is.

>By your own arguments, the majority of manga and anime is made for children, and that's that.
At no point did I present any such argument. It's time to stop lying.

>>95189545
See >>95189273
If shounen anime is a demographic and not a genre, then the demographic is defined as anime directed at young boys. You can therefore determine how many anime and manga are made for young boys and young girls by looking at how many shounen and shoujo anime and manga there are. MAL lists far more Shounen and Shoujo anime than Josei and Seinen anime and therefore, if your own argument that Shoujo is a demographic is correct, then that means more anime and manga are made for young boys and girls than are made for adults.

>>95189617
Shounen, again, extends all the way up to the late teens. The Japanese, again, make no distinction between teen and adult (shounen and seinen overlap with each other).

>>95189641
I'm sorry, it's kind of hard to argue with someone that's using made up definitions and then using those definitions as evidence that they're right.

>>95189756
I am not using any made up definitions.

>>95185515
>I pay because it has more pages!
said nobody, ever.

>>95189830
If you say it doesn't matter. It's part of the calculation in your head. Is x worth your money if you don't have much. Most people also do that with videogames.

>>95189830
says a ton of people. When DC Rebirth came out and they offered more pages for less money a lot of people took it as intensive to buy that over Marvel. It's also why people bitch when Marvel tacks an extra 2 dollars for 10 more pages.

>>95190022
>>95190247
I'm not the other guy, but I think he's specifically talking within the context of trades/tankobon (which technically is what the thread is about). In that sense, he's not exactly wrong. The quality of the story and its standalone-ness (either being standalone by itself or within the context of a single series) are the biggest factors in buying a trade.

For instance, The Killing Joke is consistently one of the best selling cape trades/OGNs....and it's just 50 pages of actual content.

>>95163552
I will give him/her the point that Manga has more variety but only if you count Big 2 capes comics. Indie comics has a lot of variety as well but not as deep as manga, though that is only true if you can read japanese since the manga being published in the US usually is generally the same kind of manga. Though for some reason girls tend to read far more manga as well maybe because manga actually tries to make stories interesting for them.

>>95164061
Choke on a dick, commie

>>95167510
This

>>95187556
but those magic books aren't like FullMetall A. they don't get that level.

>>95164151
This is the problem, People have a herd mentality and think that only because someone points out the obvious (the retarded and horrible state of the US comic book industry) then points out to an industry that does a better job in marketing, sales, creation of new comics, etc etc and point out to that example is an immediate validation than "Naruto is better than Batman".

/co/ and most of is most retarded users have to understand that it is a fact that the comic book industry has done nothing to pander to same audience for decades (and by that I mean Marvel and DC with their cape comics since they represent like 99% of the entire industry) which hurt the ability of the industry to expand outside a determinate demographic, and that the current attempts of the industry to reach out new readers have been falling miserably DESPITE the push that the industry should be getting for all the new fans thanks to cape movies becoming mainstream.

I love comic books and I think that there is no way to say comics or manga are better since it is an author thing, some have talent some don't, some are in Japan some are in the US. But one thing Japan does right is to print out so much shit for anyone that there is actually something you can recommend to anyone that is willing to give it a chance, you have shit from softcorn porn aimed at teenagers (from both sexes) to stories aimed at parents.

>>95164030
This

>>95164030
Read again. They talk about MANGA. Cartoons/anime is a completely different question.

Comics just don't have the variety or backlog that manga has (95% or more manga do not get translated in English and the number grows every month)
Almost everyone has a niche in manga
Salarymen, housewives, old peoples, etc read manga
Better system of distribution/buying
Isn't controlled by two big companies who try to fuck over anyone else (even tiny magazines can successful series)
Digital/web series are also thing which can be popular enough to be printed

>>95192092
Just recently I saw another web series get signed by a publisher.

https://danbooru.donmai.us/posts/2802683?tags=neeko

>>95192245
Wait that seems interesting, is a weeb series about a neet?

>>95192496
Yes it's about a NEET.

https://danbooru.donmai.us/pools/11988

>>95192563
>That cake with "hope you get a job this year"
HAHAHA

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it would be interesting to see a comparison between manga and euro comics in terms of distribution, marketing, price, variety, quality of art and writing, accessibility, etc.

>>95190695
>The quality of the story and its standalone-ness (either being standalone by itself or within the context of a single series) are the biggest factors in buying a trade.

On a book to book basis, sure.

On a more general, medium to medium basis, no. Cheaper price absolutely plays a role, because we consider value in our discretionary spending.. Greater value lowers the barrier to entry.

Value is quality over cost, and quality is subjective. But let's just assume that to the uninitiated consumer, average quality of manga is equal to average quality of comics. Average cost is subjective, and we know manga's cost is lower. So manga as a whole will always provide the better value.

>>95195496
>Average cost is objective