Why is every modern Disney villain a surprise or a liar revealed?

>>95154951
streamlined story telling. there's literally nobody writing plots anymore, they just poll people to check what trope is hot at the moment.

>>95154951
I blame frozen and toy tory 3. Both had these villains and earned billions

>>95154951
It was predictable before Frozen and the other movies even premeired.

lmao how is Gothel a surprise villain

>>95154951
how are Gothel and Te Ka surprise villains

Of all of those only Turbo surprised me, but only because i had totally forgotten about him.

>>95155024
I think OP means she was only a villain because she was a lair, thus the lair revealed.

>>95154951
>OP thinks the witch was good in the beginning.

Never trust a black hair girl with makeup.

Te Ka was honestly refreshing because it was a "villain is actually a good guy" reveal

>>95154951
I dont know why Wreck it Ralph is counted among these
King Candy is obviously the villain before his reveal, him being Turbo doesnt really change much

>>95155009
Monsters Inc had it way before the others

>>95155071
What about the kidnapping.....

Not much you can do about Zootopia, considering the whole film banked on a "whodunnit" story

>>95155233
>I dont know why Wreck it Ralph is counted among these

>Liar revealed

The fact Gothel is on there should have tipped you off to re-read that.

>>95155233
That and WiR is Pixar

>>95154951
A few of those are "straight up evil" in their own way... most of them outside of Moana and Big Hero 6.

But "pure evil" is a lazy idea. Almost nothing is pure evil, that's just a nice story that people tell others to make decisions (in war, punishing crime, etc.) easier. Outside of a few rare psychopaths, most people who do "evil" things see themselves as good. Or at the very least justified.

File: 1371339225390.jpg (21KB, 354x396px) Image search: [Google]

21KB, 354x396px

>>95154951

>Implying King Candy isn't blatantly evil from the second scene he's in
>Implying Te Ka is a "Surprise Villain" when she's actually a surprise hero
>Implying Gothel isn't one of the best villains in years

HEY GUYS, REMEMBER WHEN SCAR WAS REVEALED AS A SURPRISE VILLAIN! He was TOTALLY a good guy until he made that stampede happen!

>>95155354
>WIR is pixar

oi.

>>95155451
I'm honestly cool with this change-up in how villains are being revealed. It's better than "I'm evil because I just am" that we have had for most Disney villains.

>>95154951
Who's the bottom left dude?

>>95154951
I dunno, the Big Hero 6 guy seems pretty straighforward. I haven't seen the movie but IIRC he was established as a villain back in the trailers.

As for the rest, Disney is experimenting with its storytelling. They're trying to give stories interesting twists and subvert tropes, as well as making villains more sympathetic. I can't say whether it's definitely good or bad. From one hand, it is something new, but from the other, most villains end up having little screentime and not being very memorable.

Alot of these movies:

>Spunky girl who has a dream teams up with wise cracking crooked/poor guy

>>95156984
The villain in Big Hero 6 is the team's robotics professor at college who faked his death in a fire that also killed Hiro's brother and stole Hiro's technology in some elaborate revenge scheme against a tech CEO.

>>95154951
Who's bottom left?

>>95154951

>Why is all math now done with computers, calculators and theorems? What ever happened to straight up ordinary abacuses?

Why is angry Bellweather so hot?

Her predatorial instincts are a major turn on.

>>95156970
>>95157080

From Big Hero 6.

>>95156970
Big Hero 6 villain. The tweest is that It was the school teacher they thought was dead, not the millionaire who wanted Hiro's project.

File: 1423606860428.png (26KB, 775x591px) Image search: [Google]

26KB, 775x591px

I wanna fug the sheep.

>>95154951
Well Mother Gothel was clearly evil

Bellweather was a great villain who totally fit her story though.

> Why is every modern Disney villain a surprise or a liar revealed? What happened to straight-up evil villains?

Scar was a liar.
Gaston was a liar.
Hades was a liar.
Sykes was a liar.
Ursula was a liar.
Ratcliffe was a liar

Practically every disney villain is a liar. Only one who comes to mind who isn't is Shan Yu

>>95154951
>Why are villains deceptive, an evil trait, instead of honest, a positive trait?
drr I dunno

>>95157190
>Great villain
Kek

>>95157223
Frollo doesn't really lie, does he? Or rather, if he does, he actually believes his own lies.

>>95154951
You have a point, but as far as the masked guy from Big Hero 6, that's like half the point of wearing a mask in the first place.

>evil person lies
woah

>>95157492
he lies about caring for Quasimodo

>>95157587
Ah. True.

>>95154951
Society is low trust and high paranoia.

Same reason vampires are getting popular again. Under right wing leaders, people begin to fear parasites preying on them from the shadows. Also why beards are unfashionable right now.

>>95157637
>beards are unfashionable right now
You wot?

>>95157587
People lie about caring for each other all the time. Doesn't really count as a villainous trait.

>>95157678
it does if he's doing it to manipulate Quasi

>>95157673
you dont have to hide who you are anon
love is love

>>95157673
They're out.

O U T

Beards are currently associated with slimy, conniving, dishonest dudes. Blame hipsters and neckbeards.

>>95157702
What was he manipulating him to do? Stay in the tower so the townsfolk don't freak out and attack him like they did when disobeyed Frollo?

>>95157736
>even this foul creature may yet prove one day to be
>of use
>to me

>>95157637
>Society is low trust and high paranoia.
There was a study that showed this is the case of populations that contained a mixture of ethnic groups. People are more relaxed and trusting in homogeneous societies. Hell, in Japan people send their kids to school alone on trains and are completely comfortable walking around in the dead of night.

File: TeFiti.png (248KB, 500x222px) Image search: [Google]

248KB, 500x222px

I want to fuck Te Fiti

Name a Disney villain that doesn't either start pretending to be aligned with the good guys or end up being aligned with the good guys.

Frollo, Gaston, Ratcliffe, Facilier, the Lilo and Stitch aliens, Ursula, Scar

They ALL do.

>>95157754
He never found a use for him, yet he still kept him around solely because his moral stature was so great. He absolutely loathed Quasimodo, yet he took care of him in the name of God.

>>95157765
Not just ethnic groups, religions as well

People even mistrust others WITHIN their own group when a community is mixed

>>95157808
Well, he did ring the bells for him.

>>95157808
Quasimodo was the bellringer.

>>95157777
any villain from before the Renaissance
Shan Yu
neither Frollo or Gaston really pretend

>>95157828
>>95157854
Such an important job right? That's just so he had something to do and wasn't sitting up there completely useless. Frollo wouldn't have cared if Quasimodo died and someone else had to ring the bells.

>>95157887
He would mind, because that person wouldn't be completely dependant on him.

>>95157766

Stick your dick in the island.

File: s74KZCA.jpg (72KB, 625x595px) Image search: [Google]

72KB, 625x595px

>>95157766
>tre fiti
Goddamn the Loch Ness Monster is at it again.

What's the deal with them making a lamb the villian anyway? What does this particular production have against the gentlest, meekest animal, and more importantly what does it have to say about whatever social analogue that the sheep represents? My theory is that it presents upward mobility through ingenuity and indivduality as a negative and that the only way to really progress in a society is to mindlessly subsume to fascist police liberal groupthink (like judy)

>>95157808
Quasimodo unwittingly led him to the Court of Miracles.

>>95155272
Monsters Inc actually used it well, though.

>>95157977
i wanna beep beep that sheep

>>95155141
Villains are always the good guy of their own story.

>>95157190
Not really. Bellwether was unassuming, but she never appeared powerhungry until the climax. Besides, it's impossible & ignorant to blame all the problems on a single entity, especially one individual. Life shouldn't have been a party at the end.

>>95157977
White liberal woman who uses minorities to advance her own agenda then leaves them in the dust once she gains power

so Hillary

>>95157977
Difference is Bellwether was dethroned while Judy, the persistent optimist was promoted.

>>95158037
Tell that to Maleficent (not the Angelina Jolie retelling).

>>95157157
beep beep

>>95157637
>>95157734
We're in a beard renaissance, dude. They were unfashionable for a long time because people had to shave to wear gas masks in the world wars and the style just stuck. Now they're relatively popular again. Maybe you're thinking of twirly mustaches being associated with bad guys?

>>95154951
Hans is the only villain with no build-up, yet everyone is so fucking impressed.

>>95158133
>not the Angelina Jolie retelling
So you're saying to ignore her own story in favor for the one in which she's an antagonist and they just straight up call her pure evil like they do in war propaganda? Sure showed me :^)

>>95155272
Monsters Inc wasn't really a reveal per se

>>95157084
Did you put thought into that before you wrote it.

>>95158316
did you put lube on before you stuck your dick in my ass you faggot

>>95158338
You tell me ;)

>>95158222
Maleficent was an alternate timeline. It's not canon to the original film.

File: 1500545054210.webm (489KB, 1346x992px) Image search: [Google]

489KB, 1346x992px

>>95157157
>>95158135

>>95158338
I don't have a dick, man.

>>95157977
Found the leftest.

>>95158444
>>>/r/eddit

>>95158465
im so sorry for your loss

>>95157977
I thought Belweather was the fascist, establishing a threat to split the community and unite each other.

>>95158135
>>95158444
>just googled this
>literally made by BlackGryph0n
Where's Barneyfag when you need him?

Furries need to be purged

I feel like the general message they're attempting to convey is "the REAL villains are usually the ones trying to pass themselves off as the heroes".. since straightforward, outright monsters like Maleficent or Professor Ratigan don't normally exist within the lives of a typical normie viewer. But everyone's at least had one two-faced friend, or an abusive parent, or some malicious obstacle in their lives that they initially thought were working to their benefit that they could now contextualize a Disney villain with, so they seem a whole lot deeper than they really are despite being written with minimal effort.

Plus, having an antagonist who initially seemed benevolent leaves them just open ended enough for people to dissect their unacknowledged motives, since it seems to be a trend these days to indiscriminately humanize the bad guys to the point where you could argue they've really "done nothing wrong" because you personally identify with a unique facet of their personality, or a goal they're pushing for, or etc.

>>95154951
Gothel was pretty obtusely manipulative and dismissive for most of Rapunzel's feelings, King Candy was pretty secretive.

Yokai was either the brother or the professor, but after discovering his motivations I think I'd rather it had been the brother for some reason.

Hans' villainy right at the end felt like it came out of nowhere, besides the few seconds in the ice castle. I think he was an unfortunate product of the already messy plot.

I have little to no opinion of Bellweather. Maybe she was a little too reliant on Judy's naivety? Her rams didn't seem too threatening considering how large the other animals are.

Te Fiti wasn't a surprise villain.

>>95158222
The movie was a glorified fanfiction just riding off the success of Wicked. Don't be such a faggot

File: FormulaFinal.jpg (927KB, 2000x1561px) Image search: [Google]

927KB, 2000x1561px

>>95154951
Disney is a staunch believer in the "if it ain't broke..." approach to writing movies.

>>95155233
>King Candy is obviously the villain before his reveal, him being Turbo doesnt really change much

His reason for not letting Vanellope race made sense. If they really wanted to they could've gone the route of him being an asshole, but ultimately caring ruler.

They zigzagged him a bunch so it was hard to get a bead on him.

>>95158222
she calls herself the mistress of all evil, though

>>95156877
How many are like that though? All of them were evil shits but most had a reason for the evil shit they were doing.

Scar felt neglected by circumstance of birth and wanted the power and prestige his brother had.
Maleficent was insulted in front of the entire court in noble society, where reputation is considered extremely important.
Cruella de Vil just wanted to be FABULOUS
Gaston was a prideful dickhead, but he was enabled by the entire village and was a product of his time. There is no reason he wouldn't see himself as the hero because he'd never seen Beast act as anything other than a violent monster.
Shere Khan had a deep, deep hatred of humans

Sure there are some evil people who just do evil people things, but even they are mostly just about accruing power. Jafar, Ursula, Facilier, Yzma and all that. Evil is just the most effective means for them.

The only one that really stands out is the bitch from Snow White, who was just a cunt.

>>95157637
>Vampires are getting popular again
Are you a time traveler from the early 10's?

>>95157028

This. At least the villains try to be different. The hero seems very samey these days.

>>95157821

That sounds like the elephant in the room no one wants to address. And I keep getting reminded on why I hate "polite society". Because they'd rather bury their mistakes instead of trying to resolve them.

>>95157977
The same point they were making with Judy - that sometimes the meek prey can be as dangerous as a predator, that sometimes r-types can really be K-types.

>>95158653
>Hans' villainy right at the end felt like it came out of nowhere, besides the few seconds in the ice castle.

What few seconds? If you are referring to the ice chandelier incident, Hans didn't even have his finger on the trigger.

>>95158830
But the real villain in Emperor's New Groove was Kuzco (or rather his ginormous ego). It's clued in by him being a turbo jerk and being voiced by David Spade. You only had sympathy for Pacha at the beginning of the movie.

>>95160657
Yeah I agree with that, but for the purposes of argument we're using Yzma as The Disney Villain. Although Kuzco was a little shit and it was probably his firing her that led her down that path, she did essentially try to murder him for power.

File: 1487211326006.jpg (144KB, 618x597px) Image search: [Google]

144KB, 618x597px

Daily reminder that Frozen is a shit movie and Hans is quite possibly the worst villain ever in a Disney film

>b-but muh songs

Songs were shit, people only remember 2 of them anyways

>>95157880
Frollo pretends to be just a merciless leader who is trying to fight the criminal scum of the city. That's how Quasi sees him. He doesn't realize he's burning down the city because he can't satisfy his own sexual urges and just wants to rape Esmeralda.

Gaston was viewed as the town's golden child. He didn't threaten to throw Belle's father in the looney bin until after she rejected and humiliated him.

Of all the Disney villains, Cinderella's Step-Mom, the Evil Queen from Snow White, and Maleficent are some of the few who are just straight up evil from the gate and want to do people harm without even being provoked in the first place.

>>95155451
The Lion King would have been so much better if Scar turned out to be good and Rafiki was the true villain.

>>95160821
You just need to let it go

>>95160824
>He didn't threaten to throw Belle's father in the looney bin until after she rejected and humiliated him.

He never had her father's permission to wed, he humiliated himself, and bribing someone to throw a guy in the looney bin is despicable

>>95161001
I'm not saying Gaston was justified, but he at least MET Belle which led him into being a villain. Typically the villains who are evil for the sake of evil want to cause harm to the protagonist without even knowing who the fuck they are. Again, like Maleficent putting a curse on Aurora who was just a baby.

>>95160821
But he can make for a fantastic hero in a sequel, right?

>>95157028
>>95158684
Ugh, I know, right?!

Disney's has been reworking Gigantic to focus on Inma the giantess. They better not go full retard & make Anna the protagonist again when clearly everybody preferred Elsa.

>>95157223
OK, but these guys all had inherently "evil" designs. Nobody was believing that Scar was gonna be a good guy at first. You could believe Hans or Belweather to be good guys at first. It's more of a "twist villain" than a liar revealed. I mean really, Gothel shouldn't be on this list. She also has a textbook "bad guy" design. You could tell something was fishy with her from the beginning.
>>95157777
Sykes, but he was just sort of an asshole mob boss instead of straight up evil.

>>95161366
>You could tell something was fishy with her from the beginning

Yeah, like how she kidnapped a baby to retain her beauty.

>>95160824
Hey, Maleficent had a reason. She was insulted in front of the entire court. That's the kind of shit that ends in assassination or rebellion in human medieval society.

>>95161876
>Maleficent
>human
although insulting a fairy is probably worse

>>95161876
Hey, she came in wanting to fuck shit up. She probably wasn't invited due to being on poor terms with the kingdom.

>>95161909
not being invited is just as much of an insult

>>95161876
If you consistently shit on the dinner table when invited to events, not getting invited to the latest one isn't really an "insult".

>>95161890
Well that's what I mean. If they'd insulted a human noble that viciously - rejecting them in front of the entire court at the giftgiving of an heir to the throne - that would have caused a massive rift that would last centuries. People have gone to war over less.

>>95161909
>Hey, she came in wanting to fuck shit up
Not necessarily. She looks like she was on shitty terms with the fairy godmothers - she might have given the kid something really cool just as a dick-waving contest.

>due to being on poor terms with the kingdom
Possibly, but we don't know that.

>>95161921
That is the insult I was referring to. They didn't invite her, then they told her to leave when she did show up.

>>95161943
As I said in an above reply, we don't know exactly what she had done - if she had done anything.

>>95154951
>What happened to straight-up evil villains?
Have you ever seen a /co/ thread about the Joker? No one can conceive of a person who's just evil and allowed to exist anymore.

>>95161963
>if she had done anything.
She was an evil witch who had sworn herself to darkness. I think she even said something about how she does things in the name of evil. Unless you count the live-action movie as canon, I think the kingdom just didn't want to invite the Devil over to their party.

Even then, if I recall, it was only one of the Good Witches who straight up said, "We don't want you here". I think the King and Queen tried to play it off and go, "We didn't think you'd wanna come".

>>95161993
Just cause she's the embodiment of evil bullshit doesn't mean you should be rude.

>Unless you count the live-action movie as canon
oh gods no

>>95157962
He's an island now?

>>95156877
But they are still flat characters with little purpose behind their evil.
The only change is that now there's a dumb predictable twist and they aren't fun to watch anymore

>>95158222
If you need to use an emoji to make a "point" then don't bother, it's just an appeal to emotions.

It's easy enough to see that OP is referring to her having no traits or purpose besides "evil" in her original animated incarnation.

In before "hur hur, me just pretend be dumb, you trolled".

>>95155009
Because it works and covers the biggest market, dumb people who think twists are unpredictable, and fanatics who will watch it regardless, and complain about it only enough to help encourage watching it. It does get tired though.

>>95155272
The corporation was always "evil", they scared children for profits.

>>95155326
Typical cop movie, typical crime case.

>>95161890
Insulting a fairy is literally one of the worst things you can possibly do.

>>95158645
As the old saying goes "Evil wears many masks in the pursuit of their goals, none more dangerous than the mask of virtue"

>>95160838
I'd watch it.
Or if hyenas were actually a competent foreign thread, considering in nature hyenas and lions are actually pretty powerful competitors and hyena clans vastly outnumber lion prides.

>>95155233
This. Also, Turbo's motivates made sense and felt like it was given adequate clues. Compare that to the lamb from Zootopia, who just felt like the big screen version of Penelope from the Sly Cooper series being the surprise villain of 4.

I don't know how to describe it. You can tell when a villain is organic or not.

>>95164978
Megatron certainly isn't.

File: Consider-The-Following-random-31200159-500-500.jpg (37KB, 500x500px) Image search: [Google]

37KB, 500x500px

>>95154951

A lot of the time the appeal is less the reveal and more the growing tension of the reveal as the protagonists move further and further into danger

Often a "twist" isn't meant to be a surprise but rather it's how the heroes discover the twist. For example Columbo always revealed the killer in the opening and the story was about how he discovered them and about how they tried to avoid being caught.

So the problem is less "twists" being predictable and more amateur critics who think their clever for spotting something when really they missed the bigger twist entirely.

In short get fucked, op.