Deep Throat here. Marvel's super duper panicing right

So what's the plan with marvel right now, what are they doing for their books? Also, how credible are you mean to be?

Secret Empire was going to be this for Marvel. The official ending of an era of the Marvel Universe as we knew it and the dawning of the SJW era, with all of the SJW heroes as THE main heroes and the existig iconic versions all dead or retired or disgraced.

The original plan for eliminating the heroes:
*Miles kills Steve Rogers
*Vision killed by Thor when Thor finally has enough being Steve's bitch (originally, Vision wasn't brainwashed and with Cap because he legit hates humanity after what happened in the Vision series)
*Thor going to jail for his part in Steve's reign of terror
*Bruce Banner was never supposed to come back
*Clint Barton going into hiding and basically being declared off-limits to basically everyone
*Tony Stark, back before Bendis rewrote Civil War II to put Tony in a coma, retiring with Black Widow (was supposed to have a scene where she is a passive-aggressive bitch to Peter for refusing to retire and let Miles be the one true Spider-Man) on a giant floating airship that will be touring the world
*Jan and Wonder Man killed when Cap destroys Vegas (carried out by Cap and not surrogates, with the destruction caused by him nuking Vegas)
*Wanda, like Thor, being a willing ally to Cap but ultimately being killed mid-way through as one of several moments to hammer home Cap was beyond red and to set up Thor ultimately turning on Cap

The end result would be Carol Danvers as the new top hero of the Marvel Universe and the launch of a new Avengers book with the new A-Listers: Carol (Captain Marvel), Falcon (Captain America), Riri (new Iron Man), Viv (New Vision), Nadia (New Wasp), Cho (New Hulk), Miles (New Black Widow), Kate Bishop (New Hawkeye), Jane Foster (Thor), with Ms Marvel and America Chavez as reserve members.

Champions would be canceled and the company would then promptly resort back to the "ghettoing" of the line into various imprints (Spider-Books, X-Books, Defenders, Guardians, Inhumans) with the SJW Avengers as the crown jewel of the company.

Direction-wise, one of the aims was to recreate the arc of the late 00s. Civil War II/Civil War I > Secret Empire/Secret Invasion and Dark Reign > Legacy/Heroic Age.

Following the defeat and death of Steve Rogers, the US government would reinstitute the Super-Hero Registration Act which the Avengers woud support. This would lead to mass retirement in the hero world (Marvel's way of freeing up alter egos of existing heroes for new SJW versions) and the new Avengers being the only federally approved hero team out there. X-Men, Spider-Man, Guardians, etc would go back to being fugitives or at the very least, not trusted by the public or US government and the Avengers themselves, would become a true "global" super-hero team and start actively having adventures outside the US. There was talk about even ripping off the JLA and giving the Avengers a space station headquarters.

>>95073888
Got any proof?

This would be part of the "no crossover" thing; as by ghettoing off the entire line into imprints, no crossovers could be done unless it was with the respective family of books.

This all got shot to hell with the huge backlash against Hydra Captain America and the election of Donald Trump and the subsequent shifting of tone at Marvel, due to Ike being a huge Trump booster.

Right now, if Legacy flops, Marvel will have no choice but to abandon their diversity push. If you hate what they are doing with the social justice/PC crap, don't buy the Legacy books because with Legacy failing before it even began, Marvel won't have any further options but to disown and drop down the drowned baby well their SJW garbage.

>>95074403
>Marvel will have no choice but to abandon their diversity push
Yeah right

>>95074298
I would actually read this. IF DONE WELL. The problem with current marvel has always been the writing not the SJW push.

Look at Ewing's work, half of his cast is filled with minorities and you barely notice it because he puts character and story before agendas.

>>95074450
Monkey's paw if this does become true. We might not get any good minority book in a long time.

>>95075228
Pretty much. That's one of the things I hate about /co/ whenever they start a thread shitting on Marvel - they always complain that the problem is diversity and other SJW values, but ignore the writing.

For fuck's sake, Marvel could have rebooted the MU back to the 1960s, where there were no legacy characters at all. And it wouldn't have changed jack shit if people like Bendis and Slott are still writing them.

There are definitely ways to write minorities and legacy characters well. It's just that Marvel's staff is founded on nepotism and the assumption that the movies are doing okay, so why do quality control on the comics?

>>95075399
I agree but you're missing the point slightly

They do have quality control on the comics. It's just all pointed towards diversity and inclusion

>>95075399
/co/ is usually criticizing the writing when they criticize the sjw stuff, because that's the clear example of what's fucked with their writing. Shoehorning and soap boxing and ham handed crap has been the business of the day around all that stuff.

>>95075228
>We might not get any good minority book in a long time.

Good?

We need good books, not fucking diversity books. If a good book stars minorities then that's just marvy. If they're shitting out a book to be diverse then they should eat the shit they fucking ought to.

>>95075574
This. The writing and the SJW slant go hand in hand. Just look at America. A clear symptom of bad writing coming about BECAUSE of their SJW pandering.

>>95075641
Yeah, that book is a prime example. The dialogue goes off the rails in order to jam as much of that stuff in to it as possible to the point where it reads like parody.

I avoided reading Ultimates because I heard it was a SJW book. Then I read an issue and fucking loved it because it was a straight up cosmic Marvel book with fantastic writing. I absolutely agree Marvel needs better writers.

>>95074382
There's never any proof

>another hey guys I work at Marvel thread
At this point half the board works at Marvel and yet no one knows shit about shit.

>>95075639
We will get good books regardless after this bullshit is over. Right now marvel is doing their diversity bullshit thinking it sells but the quality is shit. The writing is bad.

Will marvel blame the writing staff for this shit? Nah they will blame it on diversity like last time. As a result say goodbye to Marvel actually supporting a decently written minority character (if we ever get one) for a long long time.

>>95075804
>Right now marvel is doing their diversity bullshit thinking it sells
But it doesn't sell. All the data shows that there's no success in appealing to that crowd.

>>95073888
Why were your creative teams wrong the first time?

Oh boy more /co/ industry fan fiction

>>95075399
>they always complain that the problem is diversity and other SJW values, but ignore the writing.
Not actually true. Yeah, there's a handful of idiots that blame diversity as if that's the problem, but most people recognise that the diversity push is just a symptom of Marvel's bigger problems, namely their shit creative teams and shittier editorial.

Plenty of people in those threads point out that the problems are bad writing and bad editorial. The synergy, the forced diversity, the hamfisted SJW agenda, that all goes back to bad writing and bad editorial. Pointing this out is especially common when people compare to the way DC handles diversity legacies, like New Super-Man and Jessica Cruz.

I don't know how many times it has to be said, but /co/ in general doesn't have a problem with diversity, or legacies, or diversity legacies. We do have a problem with shit writing and no editorial oversight, and that's why we have so many threads about why Marvel sucks.

>>95073888
Even if I believed you most peple don't even trust comic book news anymore so it's not going to save legacy.

>>95075839
see >>95076054

DC has a nice diversity push and its done right as well as received well.

>>95075804
>Nah they will blame it on diversity like last time.
David Gabriel didn't blame diversity, he blamed the audience for being bigots without having the balls to actually come out say it.

It just goes right back to how Marvel keeps on refusing to actually take a good, long look at their own faults over how they're fucking up. It's so much easier for them to blame their audience for not being progressive enough and using their forced diversity pandering as a shield against legitimate criticisms.

>>95075228
>The problem with current marvel has always been the writing not the SJW push.


HORSE SHIT.

Yes, the writing is terrible. FUCKING TERRIBLE.

But it's bad because of the SJW push.

Ditch that idiotic mandate and LET THE CREATORS CREATE.

If your politically correct bundle of turds can't create, get rid of them, and hire whoever, ANYBODY, that has ideas.

Marvel is the House of Ideas. Editorials crowning foolishness has been in thinking they can force creativity.

Fucking stop it. Let the Muse work, you blithering fucktards.

>>95076099
What DC did was just a natural thing, whereas what marvel did was an actual diversity push.

The only books that sell don't sell based on diversity, because, again, all the data shows that diversity doesn't sell books. Good writing does.

>>95074298
>Miles (New Black Widow)
I dunno about this, can he pull off a catsuit?

>>95076298
He kept a hamburger up his ass through the 75% of secret wars, remember?
He can pull it off.

>>95074230
>was supposed to have a scene where she is a passive-aggressive bitch to Peter for refusing to retire and let Miles be the one true Spider-Man

Yeah, that sounds like Marvel.

>>95074298
>Carol (Captain Marvel), Falcon (Captain America), Riri (new Iron Man), Viv (New Vision), Nadia (New Wasp), Cho (New Hulk), Miles (New Black Widow), Kate Bishop (New Hawkeye), Jane Foster (Thor), with Ms Marvel and America Chavez as reserve members.

No thank you.

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Dear DeepThroat
GIVE PANDA MANIA A FUCKING STORY ARCH

>>95076849
ha, that ain't happening...

>>95074382
>proof
>for cosplay posting

>>95074230
>bring Simon back
>just to kill him again
...

>>95076825
>Riri (New Iron Man)

What about her is appealing? She's been annoying in every comic I've seen her in.

>>95073888
So do you have any actual current spoilers? What's the deal with Strange losing the title again? What's gonna happen to Doom over at Iron Man? Any creative teams past the milestone issues?

>hit pieces against DC for a laundry list of imaginary sins against Social Justice will soon be coming out

You know, I wouldn't even put this past Marvel at this point. They seem just shallow enough to try to pull DC down with them.

>>95073888
>Payments have been made, bribes have been mailed out
This is how you know it's fake, aside from all the other usual reasons. 4chan is inlove with the idea of reviewers being paid, even when this for the vast majority of instances never been true. And when it has, it's been found out explicitly. Most reviewers are either just retarded or kowtowing to the magic of "insider access." There's a kind of payment there, a kind of bribe, where the industry tries to control the discussion by putting things in the best light possible. But the idea of "gib money, good reviews" is retarded.

>>95074298
They should just do it. No more pussyfooting. Just come out the closet and say "This is the company we are now", Marvel.

>>95075737
And it's gone now because you never bought it. I hope you don't complain about the quality of Marvel books.

>>95076219
>Marvel is the House of Ideas
You know, given that the majority of their big heroes were copies of DC (Namor being an exception) I always figured that was an ironic name. Like calling a huge dude "Tiny"

>>95073888
>>95074230
>>95074298
>>95074403

OP, you're the same guy who keeps doing these same dumb fake insider threads, aren't you.

>>95074230
>*Jan and Wonder Man killed when Cap destroys Vegas (carried out by Cap and not surrogates, with the destruction caused by him nuking Vegas)

Yep, it's that same guy who does those fanfic/fake insider shit.

>>95076219
>But it's bad because of the SJW push
Wrong. A totally all-white-characters Marvel would blow just as hard if the same bunch of 'tards was writing it.

>>95076219
>LET THE CREATORS CREATE
What do you think has been happening? How can you think the creators aren't responsible for this when Marvel's editors have been slashed and chased out? Who do you think is telling Marvel that the modern liberal push is going to work? When buffoons like Humphries go from Star Lord at Marvel to Green Lanterns at DC? When you have Soule going from Red Lanterns to X-men? Maybe it's just the Green Lantern brand, but how can you possibly think editorial is solely responsible for this? You have this range of creator passion projects from Kamala Khan to America to Deadpool to Black Panther, and the range in quality is so mind boggling you wonder how they exist in the same company. Spencer goes from interesting indie titles to being allowed to lead a big dumb event that's so hilariously tone deaf you wonder how he wrote anything else. People go to Marvel to die, because there's no fucking control. There's your fucking Muse.

What's happening now is what the creators want to happen. But while creators create, editors edit. 20th century fiction is littered with examples of what happens when creators escape the cold grasp of editors, and it's not usually a pretty picture. DC has it's problems even now, but one thing they got right is you need your creators to be edited. This twitter bullshit going on at Marvel is a fucking circus, and everyone involved should be ashamed of themselves. People romanticize this art shit, when only a handful of people can really make a claim to having that true spark that's better off left alone. Most people, even the great ones, need someone to slapping them on the back of their head, telling them to knock it off.

>>95076219
When did you start reading comics?

>>95073888
>Payments have been made, bribes have been mailed out, and hit pieces against DC for a laundry list of imaginary sins against Social Justice
The major problem with these leaks is that they're too focused on shit that is discussed on /co/. It's like reading a Frankenstein's monster created from all the threads you've skimmed in the past six months. You've got to think like a sales manager to write these believably

>>95076279
What did DC do?

>>95073888
Reminder that OP has been wrong 100% of the time.

>>95076279
>good writing sells
That's never been true. Otherwise great books like Flintstones would still be running.

What sells? Brand names, icons, and toys.

>>95073888
Nice trips
Who is whisperer?

>>95078844
OP, who made this thread under that name:

http://desuarchive.org/co/thread/93709023/

>>95078843
>Brand names, icons, and toys.
Flintstones has had all of those things.

>>95078923
HAD all those things, yes.

Got any info about the upcoming Moon Knight series? It's the only book that I read that is from Marvel.

>>95078942
YABBA DABBA DOO, I LIKE TALKIN' TO YOU

that's some avengers disassembled shit and i don't buy it.

>>95073888
>DC for a laundry list of imaginary sins against Social Justice

lol that wont do shit

>>95078945
IT WAS INITIALLY PROPOSED MOON KNIGHT WOULD BE KILLED IN CIVIL WAR 3 -- BENDIS' FOLLOW UP TO CIVIL WAR 2 FOR THIS YEAR -- AND REPLACED BY A BLACK URBAN YOUTH FROM DETRIOT BUT GIVEN THE SHIT PUBLICITY WITH THE S J W PUSH RECENTLY MARVEL SCRAPPED THE PLANS AND NOW IT'S JUST THAT BOOK THAT WAS ANNOUNCED

OH AND ALAN MOORE AND AVATAR WERE EXTREMEMLY MAD MARVEL SNUFFED JACEN BURROUGHS FROM THEM SO THEY'RE LIKE SUING MARVEL AND MARVEL IS SUPER PANICKING BEING ATTACKED FROM ALL SIDES!

>>95075772
not really, because it's the same autist each time.

>>95074230
reminder that fagtion said in an interview a few years ago that marvel's long term plan was to kill EVERY "straight white male" in the entire marvel universe without exception

>>95079164
Has Super Male Vitality gone to your head, Alex Jones?

>>95074382
half this shit has already happened

>>95074403
>you hate what they are doing with the social justice/PC crap, don't buy the Legacy books

THIS

YOU FAGS NEED TO JUST ABANDON MARVEL AND NEVER BUY THEIR COMICS AGAIN

>>95079371
I haven't bought a Marvel comic in fucking years.

>>95075228
>The problem with current marvel has always been the writing not the SJW push

this is either the most delusional thing ever posted on /co/ or a paid viral marketer doing damage control

>>95074298
>Miles (New Black Widow)
you were doing so well up until that point

>>95076054
I'd be more privy to believe that if half the threads we had weren't transplanted from /pol/.

>>95073888
tl;dc

this thread makes me happy, cause if one tenth of it is real, marvel is indeed on its final moments.
die marvel, you deserve it

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This sounds like bullshit because it mentions payloda

The whole notion that you need to pay people to get them to bitch about things online is the fantasy of internet weirdos who are easily wounded when talking heads in the "media" don't agree with them

>>95073888
>They paid off Rich Johnston to debunk Whisperer's original posting,

What's to debunk? It was already full of errors like Ewing on SoV and Justin Jordan on Moon Knight. Rich was probably just doing it for the clicks.

>Bu-buh Captain America
None of that was in the original leaks, that was from Rich's own sources.

So... are you gonna post anything that can actually be confirmed like a future storyline or anything? There's literally no new info here other than "This is what was totally gonna happen but it's no longer gonna happen". I mean it's a cute story but it's 100% bullshit.

The best fan-fiction /co/ thread was probably around the time Rebirth was happening. Like before we knew it was Manhattan. We got shit like the Gentry, Abnett pushing for DonnaDick, Red Dawn being the next new event, Wally being evil.

>>95073888
You shitpost for attention and never make accurate predictions. Get in your car, park it in a garage, run the engine and don't wake up.

>>95080936
Yeah, what these fan-ficcers do is take some BC rumors for "authenticity" and mix them up with their own stuff.

>>95074403
>This all got shot to hell with the huge backlash against Hydra Captain America and the election of Donald Trump and the subsequent shifting of tone at Marvel, due to Ike being a huge Trump booster.
WTF I love Ike now.

>>95074230

Assuming this is all true, what's the story behind the actual treatment of Thor, Scarlet Witch and Vision during Secret Empire? Particularly what Waid's Avengers tie-in issue did to Wanda and Vision?

Does someone in Marvel just really hate them and want to troll their fans?

>>95078126
Well the diversity stuff is a major trick in the Bad Marvel Writer toolkit.
It's like: Imagine a bad band with a cowbell player, who uses the cowbell awkwardly in every fucking song.
The band is a bad band anyway, but the most annoying element is their reliance on cowbell.
And then the band uses the prejudice against cowbell to attack the audience and keep doing what they're doing.

Diversity in and of itself isn't a problem, but Marvel's extreme reliance on it (to look PC, to shield themselves from critics, to blame the audience for low sales) has become intrinsically bonded to what's wrong over there.

>>95078316
>You have this range of creator passion projects from Kamala Khan to America to Deadpool to Black Panther, and the range in quality is so mind boggling you wonder how they exist in the same company.
They vary in quality from about 2 stars to 1 star.
Kamala stopped being a "passion project" after her first storyarc in volume 1 of her series. Her book sucks now and only sticks around because Wilson and Amanat are stubborn, not passionate. They recently had a 6-issue arc about a cyber troll.
You actually think Coates has a passion for Black Panther? He never cared about the character or Marvel in general before he got a big contract and was then like "Welp. Better come up with something."
Same with America. There's no passion there, just petulance.
And how any of that compares to Duggan's overly long Deadpool saga, I dunno.

I agree with what you're saying about lack of editorial oversight and direction. Definitely. But it isn't as if all the Marvel writers are thus "free to create". They aren't creating. They're meandering around because they aren't creative people.
You can blame it on lack of real editors, but since every other leftist has gone off the deep-end over the last few years, I'm going to blame it on generic American leftist mental illness, because that's the common denominator of all of this.

>>95081345
>You actually think Coates has a passion for Black Panther? He never cared about the character or Marvel in general before he got a big contract and was then like "Welp. Better come up with something."
Yeah, Coates confirmed that when Marvel asked him if he wanted to do a book, he asked for X-Men or Spider-Man. Racist Marvel then asked him if he wouldn't rather do Black Panther instead.

>>95081391

And when he appears in a group photo of Marvel writers, he's the one that looks like he REALLY doesn't want to be there.

>>95076219

The "SJW push" is also the reason Marvel is making most of their artists draw women in a flat, curveless way that can't "offend" anyone, It's why Carol Danvers looks like a man. The covers for X-Men Blue seem to be the only exception to this rule.

>>95081345
>Same with America. There's no passion there, just petulance.

Not sure how anyone could claim that as a 'passion project'. Marvel editorial decided to give her a book, then sought out a Puerto Rican lesbian to write it, and hired the first one they found, because no-one else could be "allowed" to do the job.

Jesus Christ, this is the least believable "source: my uncle works at Nintendo" I've ever seen

>>95074298
>sjw is the only federally approved versions.


Marvel can't help but be meta.

>>95078316
I think Shooter said it best, that it's a disservice to the company AND the creatives because none of these people are learning how to make a better comic book, which is a big part of the editor-writer working relationship.

>>95075228
>Monkey's paw if this does become true. We might not get any good minority book in a long time.
Not sure if marvel is even capable of making any good books from here on out. Everyone from the top down needs to be fired. How else will you get rid of cancer this deep.

>>95075399
The problem is their value system has been infected by sjw. You can't fill that with a focus on quality till you remove what puts sjw above quality.

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The typical modern day Marvel fan.

>>95075804
No they won't blame the race and religion of characters as long as you fire everyone e who focuses on the race and religion of the characters.

Spencer himself said it originally was going to be a small crossover like Standoff.

But have fun posting fanfic I guess.

>>95077445
Shell be fun if they go through making her a villain.

>>95081288
>the diversity stuff is a major trick in the Bad Marvel Writer toolkit.
The cowbell is just a distraction, something you can't stop talking about and it makes you look dumb because as long as you're talking about the cow bell people will just think you hate cow bell. Talk about how shit the band is without mentioning the cow bell and more poeple will see it.

>>95076054
>The synergy,
this has never been a real problem.
Most of the time, it just resulted in costume changes.

>>95082298
she and Teen Jean should just become villains-in-development.

It would be much more interesting.

>>95082236

This is the truth. Alonso, Brevoort, Amanat, and everyone working under them needs to go, and everyone currently writing for Marvel needs to go.

>>95081288
They're not relying on diversity but tokenism. Anerica is the Token Brown queer book, Sam Wilson was a token black captain america and I bet we all forget about that token mexican Falcon. Now not all non-white characters are tokens but they still have their own problems.
>Riri came at the expense of getting rid of another Black character.
>Chulk is not anywhere close to being Amadeus Cho
>Moon girl would've worked better as a stand alone comic

>>95074298
>Miles (New Black Widow)
Lmao

>>95082285
>Spencer himself said it originally was going to be a small crossover like Standoff.
Basically, "Cosmic Cube Captain America Story #265". Which makes much more sense and I bet would have been much better, like Standoff was.

>>95078843
The Flintstones was intended as a year long miniseries, frankly it didn't really matter how well it sold. A real shame that it didn't get extended though.

>>95078843
was it that good?
is it in trade?

>>95082329
We do and then they just say "I bet you secretly just hate the cowbell."

>>95080893
You are incredibly naive.

Oh boy, it's this nonsense again.

>>95073888

If you had argued they paid Joe Glass and Jude Terror, I'd have believed you more -- that said, I can actually see part of the rumors being true.

>>95073888
It's like the 5th time you post this kind of shit and everything was wrong but the few creative teams that BC leaked. Fuck off.

>>95081160
That's old news.
Google about him and Trump, they are BFF.

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>>95076219
You've got that entirely backwards. Marvel has done diversity before and it's been not only perfectly fine, but lauded. Even if current Marvel's entire stable of books starred only straight white guys, they'd still be hot fucking garbage because the writers are shit, the artists are shit and the editors (what few editors they still have) are worse.

You can easily look at older Marvel and DC in general for how to have diversity characters and diversity legacies done right. The difference is all in the quality of the creative teams and the strong editorial. If you honestly think Marvel is bad because of SJWs and don't realise that the SJW bullshit is a result of all of their other problems, you either only started reading comics very recently (if at all) or you've just not been paying attention.

>>95082993
Yes and yes. First trade's already out, second one is coming sometime in October, I think.