Is T'Challa a Mary Sue? Last time I asked this, people

>>95027229
No but Wank-kanda itself sure is.

>>95027295
>liking niggers makes you a liberal
Ok

You asked this before and people gave you detailed explanations with examples of how he's not, and yet you still asked again?

It's almost as if your goal is just to start a race debate and not to actually have a discussion.

>>95027279
Huh? They're portrayed as self-righteous isolated assholes. Which they are.

>>95027426
Their very continued existence is an impossiblity for a tiny country in a not very hospitable land beset by enemies with nothing worth trading for except the one thing they refuse to trade, a
Let alone the fact that they're throving. That fact that they get to be smug when they only exist because of Plot Armor is infuriating.

>>95027409
Nope.

One guy said that he isn't a Mary Sue because Sue Storm didn't give him her pussy, only got naked with him behind Reed's back.

The other said that he isn't a Mary Sue because his father is dumb.

I don't see how these things excuse the facts that he is richer than the rest of the world put together, has Captain America's body AND Iron Man' brain, wins fights that he should obviously lose and is the king of the most bullshit nation ever.

>>95027229

Not particularly, at least not in any of the runs or media that come to mind.

Wouldn't it be Gary Stu anyway, seeing as he's the main character? Mary Sue usually applies to a secondary lead who has all the skills necessary to do something (without any of the character buildup), but whose actual success chance is roughly 50/50 irrespective of the foe.

I dont get why people even bother asking your skin color because Black Panther movie poster racebait threads just means you're white or mexican anyway and crossposting from either /tv/ /pol/ or reddit. Seriously, if you want to discuss comics post comics, but you obviously dont know shit about the character or you'd have anything more substantial to say.

tl;dr stop memeing on this board, you have to go back

>>95027504

They literally have a treasure trove of alien tech.

Imagine if Tibet, or Ireland, or Hawaii had a treasure trove of medicinal, transmutational and weapon based technology from BC times, that was a couple of hundred years ahead of our current tech. They'd either be isolationist as hell, or start conquering left, right and center because in either case, no-one could stop them.

Mind you, this is a comic book universe, so that tech advantage means less and less the longer the comic run. Pretty sure in every marvel universe Earth manages to create three existance ending weapons before they create a single decent spaceship. So fuck tech trees essentially.

>>95027608
Real earth created an existance ending weapon before they create decent space ship.

>>95027504
>That fact that they get to be smug when they only exist because of Plot Armor is infuriating.

Infuriating? Why? They're a fantasy city and they are smug. It's like getting legitimately mad at Elves.

>>95027608
But Wakanda was already advanced 1.000.000 years BC, according to Marvel. Alien tech had nothing to do with this.

>>95027698
>he doesnt get mad at elves

>>95027698
Fucking knife-eared cunts.

>>95027689

Sorry, I should have been more specific, though you are quite right.

Marvel Earth would have created a weapon that destroyed the existance of all life in the universe three times over, before they built a decent space ship

>>95027705

I feel you are almost certainly trolling me, but just in case I request a panel with Wakanda and humans at 1000000 BC

>>95027698

To be fair, Elves pretty much do what China did, which was reach peak tech on the globe and then do nothing for the next couple thousand of years, usually leading to their demise.

>>95027229
He's an escapist character, if that's what you're asking.

He (and by extension Wakanda) can be badly-written, but so can Superman.

>>95027229

I feel like the term doesn't even apply to super heroes. The whole genre is full of people who were chosen by destiny or struck by tragedy (often both), are possessed of abnormal and superhuman powers, always win, always get the girl, and generally do all of the other shit that would get a character crucified as a self-insert or as hopelessly Mary Sue in another genre.

So, what is Black Panther? "Standard", I'd say.

>>95027229
Well, you have no idea what a Mary Sue is, obviously. Maybe you shouldn't have started this thread in the first place.

>>95028553
Did I touch a nerve or something?

>>95028372
"Avengers BC" by Jason Aaron. Wakanda was already a thing 1.000.000 BC.

Yes, it is retarded.

>>95027508
>One guy said that he isn't a Mary Sue because Sue Storm didn't give him her pussy, only got naked with him behind Reed's back.
Pretty sure that was an Elseworlds senpai. Just go read Priest's BP.

>>95027504
i thought namor flooded wakanda. that's not plot armor

>>95028524
This. Black Panther is a power fantasy in a genre rife with power fantasies

>>95028524
This makes more sense. Mary Sue should apply to things outside the SH genre.

>>95028800
Touch a nerve? Are you retarded? Did I sound upset? Nope. Just tired of idiots spamming phrases they don't understand, If you haven't the foggiest idea what a Mary Sue is, and Op doesn't, you shouldn't make a Mary Sue thread.

>>95028524
That's a really good point

>>95028524
>>95028867
There are power fantasies and power fantasies.

Peter Parker sure as hell isn't wanked the same way Black Panther is.

>>95028907
He can be, though.

A big problem with terms like 'Mary Sue' with characters like this, who jump around between authors because of the nature of the medium, is that most of them can be very easily badly written into bland and uncompelling characters by bad writers. So yeah, Black Panther probably could be described as a Mary Sue in more than a few of his appearances and runs, but that doesn't mean that the character and setting can't be well-written.

>>95028800
I don't know if he is one of them, but some people like to reduce the term to the bare bones of its origins rather than accept that the meaning has long since expanded to include many flavors of overly idealized, blatantly masturbatory self insert characters. The type that are always right even when they are wrong while the plot bends over backwards to beg the audience to always take said character's side. Instead when someone invokes Mary Sue they'll ACKSHUALLY about bad fanfiction or if they're really obnoxious, bad Star Trek fanfiction specifically.

I am not saying that describes Black Panther, by the way. I think he's been in the wrong a few times, and not in ways that are easily justified by plot contrivance.

>>95029111
Another perhaps more accurate way to describe the notion would be author's pet character. But that doesn't have the same ring.

>>95028907
Peter Parker has had his fair share of wank. He's also been shit on more than Black Panther. That sort of comes with the territory when he's appeared in way, way more books overall.

>>95029173
>Peter Parker has had his fair share of wank
Anything close to "king of a nation richer than the rest of the world combined who is also one of the smartest man in the world who is also one of the best martial artists in the world who is also capable of beating the Silver Surfer"?

T'Challa is just too much.

>>95027229
>Is T'Challa a Mary Sue?
No.
>Last time I asked this, people here started to ask me what is my skin color for some reason.
This wouldn't happen. They would either just assume you were white or, much more likely, nothing at all.

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I'm here before we start discusding black people's IQs.

>>95029900
>white or, much more likely, nothing at all.
This tbqh. I have always assumed that most anons are spooky skeletons.

>>95029947
It won't happen.

We had similar threads to discuss Batman and Dr. Doom and it never was a big deal.

For some reason, we can't discuss Pantherwankevy without being racist.

>>95027229
Is he a new creation whose wankery doesn't fit in the setting, overshadowing the real stars?

>Panther needs a wife.
>Storm's the only other major black female character.
>Make it so.

>>95030313

First appearance: Fantastic Four #52 (July 1966)

>>95028899
NOW you sound mad.

>>95029801
He became Starkesque for a while

>>95029801
Giving him that junk in his background was their way at the time of making him seem awesome and empowering to the audience they were pandering to. Like giving Wonder Woman an invisible jet. Yes, it is dumb, but comics dude. T'Challa got a whole magic country because he was designed for people that felt like they came from the asshole of the world. True or not, it was seen as this barbaric shithole of disease and starvation, and it was often ignored in favor of cool places with famous pantheons of Gods and mystical dragons. A bunch of them wanted to pull their self image out of the gutter, so Marvel tried to give them a neat myth of their own.

I can't hate them for that. For my part, I could not give less of a fuck about Africa if I tried, but I understand why some people might enjoy the fairy tale of a mythical African Camelot. Yes, it's Sue as fuck, but I feel like most heroes are tailor made to evoke a similar fantasy anyway. And Spiderman himself has gone toe to toe with the Silver Surfer, outsmarted Tony Stark and even fought a full team of X-Men at the same time, so I stand by the idea that he's gotten enough wank. But Peter's backstory is supposed to be relatable, T'Challa's is meant to be larger-than-life.

>>95027511
People normally just use Mary Sue nowadays. I don't think I've seen Gary Stu used anymore personally. Not to mention Mary Sue is used way too often.

>>95027229
he's not but a lot of writer's write him as one, see Silver Surfer armlock

>>95027698
>It's like getting legitimately mad at Elves.
/tg/ did just that for years. It's why Dorfswank exists, because in their eyes, they are the very antithesis of Elves.

>>95031331
I feel like humans, especially technologically adept humans, are the antithesis of the typical Tolkienesque elf.

>>95030356
Frikken Hudlin. No sense of what made Panther cool, just crapping all over the story to make a black power couple. Heck of a whiplash after Priest's run.

>>95027608
Wakanda is basically the exact same as Latveria, or Themyscaria, Atlantis, and Attilan; an advanced and isolationist city state where the titular superhero hails from and is king of. There's literally half a dozen of that archetypal location in comics.
But because it's populated by Africans suddenly that's not okay and we have to poke holes in it.

>>95029801
>who is also capable of beating the Silver Surfer"
He tried that arm bar shit then Norrin smacked him like the retard he was with his board. Please read the comics you're getting out of context panels/page from.

>>95027608
>or Ireland,

Trust me. They would fuck it up

>>95027409
>>95027504

Yeah an understanding of basic economics and geo-politics makes one's suspension of disbelief fade away. I've always just rationalized it that they've been secretly trading with the outside world for awhile.

Human civilization didn't happen in a vacuum, were always trading with each other and traveling around spreading various ideas. Which lead to what we have now. It's hard to imagine people in that isolated corner of the world literally inventing all the same exact ideas, inventions, ways of manufacturing, etc etc especially when human history shows it's like the occasional one-in-a-million-genius who advances us all.

>>95027508
>>95027426

Yeah the best part of Wakanda is when they show them being assholes, just because it finally gives them a flaw.

Literally anyone can be a mary sue if the writer decides they shouldn't lose a fight for personal reasons and the plot puts them face to face with cosmic forces outside of their understanding, much less weight class.

No bad characters, just bad writers.

>>95031628
>No bad characters, just bad writers.
This

>>95027698
Fuck elves

>>95027511
No, Mary Sue is by definition an author self-insert/pet character with special snowflake status, the origin is a Star Wars fanfic character. They can be main leads, but this is usually avoided because it's harder to hold up under inspection.

They have "flaws", so long as they're either beneficial or inconsequential.

Ex: Being the member of a persecuted race (thereby sympathetic to all the other main characters instantly) or having some sort've "burdonous power".

>>95032124
Star Trek fanfic*
Though on that subject Rey is a good example of main lead Mary Sue, like learning how to pilot the Falcon and control the Force instantly with 0 training.

>>95031521
Latveria is stupid, but it's a fun somewhat silly, somewhat dystopian kind of stupid
Themyscaria us retarded, but so is the concept of a functional Amazon society itself so that's par for the course
Atlantis I don't know enough about to excuse
I don't know what Attilan is

>>95032145
The Falcon isn't a hard ship to pilot, it's a hard ship to fix and maintain.

>>95032145
No.

>>95027229
MCU T'Challa spent the entirety of Civil War chasing the wrong man and nearly starting an international incident because of said revenge boner. Bastard couldn't even save his dad from the explosion.

>>95027229
Randomly, this has probably been done in Marvel, but I think Doom would be a great opponent for T'challa.

They're sort of opposite forces to one another, are they not?

>>95032165
>I don't know what Attilan is

Where Inhumans lived before the moon.

>>95029801
>world who is also capable of beating the Silver Surfer"?
Spider-man actually beat Firelord once, while Black Panther got stomped immediately after trying to hold Silver Surfer in an armbar.

In the Marvel universe, is the average African-American (or really, even any other Africans) bitter towards Wakandans? I sure as fuck would be. Europeans pretty much having their way with Africa for a couple centuries. The one nation that could have put a halt to all the enslavement and exploitation? Yeah, they didn't do a fucking thing. They just let it happen.

>>95031295
The armlock didn't even work, but ok

>>95032470
African Americans or other African-immigrant populations might be.

But I doubt native Africans would just because Africans see each tribe as their own nation, and each one had it's own agenda. More than a few even sold other tribes into slavery before being enslaved themselves.

Hell, Wakanda would probably be seen as a 5/10 just because they didn't decide to fuck over other African tribes.

>>95032185
>>95032145
By that logic, Anakin Skywalker is a Gary Stu in Episode I

>>95032660
He absolutely is.
There's a reason people cheer when he gets his limbs chopped off.

>>95032621

Well that settles it. Marvel's Harlem is now full of "FUCK WAKANDA" graffiti in my head-canon. Detroit and Atlanta too, while I'm at it.

>>95031521

This. You have all these advanced civilizations and countries but the one in Africa is the one that people have a problem with.

>>95032660
Anakin in episode 1 didn't have any remarkable talents besides superhuman reflexes which for someone literally born from the Force isn't that impressive and even then he hadn't won a single race.

>>95032341
Then it's already shit purely by virtue of spawning the Inhumans.

>>95027229
No.

>>95029111
>the meaning has long since expanded to include many flavors of overly idealized, blatantly masturbatory self insert characters. The type that are always right even when they are wrong while the plot bends over backwards to beg the audience to always take said character's side


No it hasn't; retarded people just use the term (wrongly) outside of the realm of fanfiction critique to describe any character in a franchise that they don't like.

Period.

Full stop.

Accept that you are wrong, bad, and a cancer on Humanity.

>>95029173
>Peter Parker has had his fair share of wank.

Oh just stop.

>>95027229
Yeah he basically is.

I think some writers are afraid to portray his flaws as flaws, or have him not "win" in team books, but I wouldn't call him any more of a Mary Sue than other superheroes.

He just hasn't had a good run in a long time thanks, again, to Marvel being afraid of doing shit with the character.

He was absolutely a Mary Sue and Wakanda a Mary Sue Utopia under Hudlin's pen. Guy damaged the character and brand to the point that subsequent writers still haven't cleaned up all the shit, a decade later.

>>95027698
Wakandans are for _______!

>>95027608
Why are cape comics so against giving humans spaceships?

>>95035171
>I wouldn't call him more of a Mary Sue than other superheroes
Well BP is never allowed to have any flaws, that by default makes him more of a Mary Sue than the severe majority of other superheroes.

>>95027229
I honestly hate most "super" geniuses in comics, especially when they have inventions that are literally centuries ahead of their time, but it has no overall effect on society when they have no real reason not to capitalize and share their discoveries.

Doom and Panther at least have an excuse that they're intentionally shielding their technology away from others because their racist dicks that only care about their own people. Their level of honesty maybe harsh, but at least it's the truth.

>>95032145

>Though on that subject Rey is a good example of main lead Mary Sue

People complaining about Mary Sues in Star Wars is the dumbest shit on Earth. You know what kind of characters and pulp stories Lucas was pulling from? Every single one of them is a Mary Sue.

I don't hear people going back to Flash Gordon and John Carter novels and complaining about how they're retroactively Mary Sues.

>>95035201

Because then it becomes a different kind of story.

>>95035227

95% of the time comic book character flaws are either shown to be endearing or dealt with in a single arc that ends. They're surface-level at best, outside of a couple.

>>95032422

Peter usually holds back. Also, he matches or Firewood in in strength and durability, and exceeds him in intelligence, speed, and fighting skills.

>>95035246
>95% of the time
Look, there's no point in pretending you read hero comics.

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>>95027229
not when he's done right but its real easy to go down that road with him and pretty much all of Wakanda.

>>95027698
>It's like getting legitimately mad at Elves.

I mean. It depends on the elves, to be honest.

>>95030574
And some spleeny cunts whinging about BP being a "Mary Sue" don't?

>>95030356
Just building on previous comic stories. Sad that continuity hurts you so.

>>95032165
Atlantis is fine because they traded around before falling into the sea and were already advanced before going isolationist.

>>95031521

Word.

>>95031521
I poke holes in Latveria all the damn time to spite doomfags, thank you very much.

>>95032660
>Gary Stu
There's no need for that.

>>95032165
>Themyscaria us retarded, but so is the concept of a functional Amazon society itself so that's par for the course

The concept of a functional Amazon society isn't stupid in and of itself, but the way DC goes about it sure is.

A functional amazon society would still need men in order to work. Even if the men are all physically weaker than the juiced up Amazon snu snu women (Or just cowed from the time they're born to be subservient) they'd still be necessary for breeding.
Not to mention all the menial tasks and manual labor necessary for running a society, and the upkeep necessary in the homestead while the Amazon is out hunting and killing harpies that try to steel their beta males.

>>95033289

Built a robot, first-time Pod-racer and wins, pilots a battle spacecraft and blows up a droid control ship.

Then again, Herakles strangled two snakes while still in his crib, Tarzan killed a gorilla at age 10, and Jesus walked on water.

Fucken Mary Sues.

>>95035183
What exactly did his run do?

>>95032781
My dude people poke holes in those countries all the time, just like they poke holes in elements of other superheroes. Like how waynetech's run, or Superman's secret identity.

People think Wakanda's full of assholes because for most of Black Panther's history it's been full of assholes. And that's fine, it gives the fantastic setting some character. The issue is when the narritive pretends the place is as perfect as its people think it is, because then T'Challa suddenly doesn't have much to do but sneer at his other Avengers. Black Panther spends a lot of his heroing time helping Wakanda adapt to the modern world or just keeping it from ripping itself apart, and that's cool! That's a big part of his character. But that also demands a more nuanced, exciting setting then "We cured cancer eons ago and didn't tell nobody."

I'd LOVE a well written Wakanda but I dunno if we're getting one for a while. At least the movie's Wakanda looks exciting in a kirby sort of way.

>>95035227
Hahaha.

>>95035444

>Built a robot, first-time Pod-racer and wins, pilots a battle spacecraft and blows up a droid control ship.

Anakin isn't bad because he's a Mary Sue, he's bad because he's a terribly written character and played badly by two different characters.

People WANTED a hyper-confident space pulp hero, not a James Dean knockoff acted so poorly he can't even convincingly pretend to want to fuck a 21 year old Natalie Portman.

>>95035444
Nigga I could have killed a gorrila at age 10 with prep time.
Unless you mean in straight up combat.

>>95035240
I mean canonically Tony and the F4 absolutely do share their tech. It's mentioned constantly.

Real super science is usually a one shot desperate solution or miracle innovation done on the spot, not something that was done in a lab that has notes that make it easy to reproduce. Science also takes a long time; Hank Pym (another character who ABSOLUTELY shares his tech with the world) pulling some hail mary use of Pym Particles out of his ass to stop Ultron doesn't mean that innovation's safe to put on the open market. You've got to test that shit first.

>>95035246

In another recent thread, Doc Savage was called a Mary Sue. The sad thing is, they don't understand that Doc fucks up, makes mistakes, and is pretty much unsocialized to the point that he often seems autistic.

>>95035484
I would also like to know.

>>95035489

Reminder that Black Panther is the richest man in the world, and even giving up five percent of his fortune would be enough to elevate multiple African countries, and an even smaller fraction than that would be enough to elevate every majority Black city in America.

>>95035531
was that another hudlin innovation?

Actually I think an African country styled off of, say, Rawanda would be a great Black Panther villain. An up and coming military hegemony in one of the few places on earth where that's still acceptable that has ISSUES with Wakanda and its great walls.

>>95035558
There is one in the comic, they tried invading recently.

>>95035519
With a hunting-knife.

Almost by accident.

After a leisurely morning of teaching himself to read (in the cabin his father built before being killed by Kerchak) with the children's' books his dead parents had packed on their voyage, he walked out with the hunting-knife he'd found.

He then was attacked by a gorilla, and was almost killed before one of his flailing arms (with the hand holding the knife) pricked the gorilla.

Tarzan then stabbed the ape to death.

>>95035484
Wakanda was a big happy family, and welcoming of black people from outside of the country. Panther was no longer an advocate for trying to get Wakanda involved in world politics. To him, his being a royalty was like another tool in his utility belt, just a cool tool for him to use, as opposed to something he struggled with. ALso T'chaka denied giving out the cure for cancer to outside cultures because he's a cunt.

>>95035252
>he matches or Firewood in in strength and durability, and exceeds him in intelligence, speed, and fighting skills.
>Firewood
>Being a phone poster

Anyway, Firelord is an herald of Galactus, any herald of Galactus should be able to effortlessly wipe the floor with Peter, they operate on completely different levels.

A mary sue is a type of self-insert. As a result the question would need to look at the writer. Most people here just seem to think the word means a powerful, successful character. Which is basically all super heroes. We're talking about a genre where being a billionaire, a genius, and having inhuman powers are standard for protagonists.

>>95035634
Nope. Firelord's a pussy. Ooo, Ooo, "Herald of Galactus", so scary. He shoots fire, and flies through space.

Now, Surfer or Terrax, that'd be bad for Peter.

>>95035136
Yes, it has. How many times have you argued this? Ask yourself, has it made any difference? Meanings evolve and the train has long since left the station without you on this. Accept the new context and make the best of it. All your mouth breathing attempt at words lawyering does is derail conversations with useless pedantry. If there was any sign the obligatory asshole crying about how Mary Sue gets used was making a dent in its commonly accepted meaning I'd be right there with ya but at this point you're fighting a battle that was lost years ago.

Language has always worked on a majority rules basis. Original meanings matter but have more than occasionally taken a distant back seat to popular usage and always will.

Arguing this on such a pointless stage when you already know exactly what OP means is just petty. Time to stop doing this every time.

>>95035634
>phone poster

Missed this. Wot?

>>95035818

Yes I'm so glad that the meaning of Mary Sue has changed from "Annoying fan-fiction self-insert characters we can laugh at" to "Any female or minority character I don't like but I want to pretend it's about the actual storytelling quality."

What a useful evolution of language, thanks.

>>95032660
You are correct

>>95035818
>Yes, it has.

No it hasn't. Calling canon characters "Mary Sue" is a cheap tactic when what they mean is "character I don't like". You're trying to obfuscate that it's a personal opinion by dressing it up with jargon.

>>95035901

This Anon is pretty hep.

>>95035871
Firewood is a pretty weird typo, and seems like something the autocorrect would do.

>>95035948
Spellcheck suggested Firewood" for "Firelord", I thot it was funny, and went with.

I'll never start a meme, will I?

>>95035818
>know exactly what OP means
No, no one fucking does because you're fucking defining a term so that it loses all fucking meaning and acting like an autistic retard when people tell you to stop.

Superman is now a Mary Sue. Spiderman is now a Mary Sue. Spock, the Rock, Doc Ock and Hulk Hogan are now fucking Mary Sue's. There's nothing to discuss here, there's nothing to debate.We either say you're either wrong, or you're right and have now created a pointless blanket term for almost all of Capeshit and more. Fuck off.

>>95035973

>Spock, the Rock, Doc Ock and Hulk Hogan

We finally have a new Fantastic Four!

>>95035973
Exactly.

>>95035992
FUND IT.

>>95035901
Its often used to describe any character that lacks meaningful flaws, never struggles with anything and is never presented in a negative or unsympathetic light to the audience. But yes a lot of people use it the way autistic or retarded gets thrown around on 4chan, essentially boiling down to: I don't like this character so I'll delegitimize them by saying they have too much stuff.

But in that case you should still default to the most accurate accepted use of the term and prove them wrong from there, which you know based on context is what they are trying to say, rather than get into a petty purist argument over the history of the term itself.

Argue against the incorrect point they are trying to make, not the way they worded it.

>>95027567
This

>>95035926
Don't start sucking that other anon's dick just cause you think you found one person to back up your impotent nerd rage. Look through the thread or any thread mentioning this term and you will understand that you're not helping anything by trying to dial back and limit the meaning of a term you don't like.

>>95036032
I'll suck anyone's dick that I choose.

>>95036005

>Its often used to describe any character that lacks meaningful flaws, never struggles with anything and is never presented in a negative or unsympathetic light to the audience

yes i'm sure the fact that it's mostly done with women and minority characters is a huge coincidence

>But in that case you should still default to the most accurate accepted use of the term and prove them wrong from there

Why? I have no requirement to accept their misuse of words at face value.

>Argue against the incorrect point they are trying to make, not the way they worded it.

Now that's just plain bullshit. How you present your argument is part of the argument itself. If I'm going to make of of Tumblr children who unironically use TvTropes phrases in criticism, I'm going to make fun of /co/cks who use Mary Sue in lieu of an actual argument.

Mary Sue as a term now lacks any and all meaning thanks to this modern evolution of it, it's no different then calling someone a faggot here. And nobody takes anyone calling something or someone a faggot seriously as a form of argument.

>>95035972
>I'll never start a meme, will I?
Well changing the names of characters nobody care about might not be the best idea for a successful meme.

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Why USA just nuke Wakanda?

>>95027229
People who call T'Challa a Mary Sue miss one of the critical elements of being a Sue. It's not hat they can do, or what they have, it's how others react to them. When everyone inexplicably loves them, including their enemies, and disliking them is grounds for being evil, no matter what else you've done, it's a Sue. For T'Challa to count, then in canon a character would have to be tabled as bad for no other reason than they hated him. This person could build hospitals for babies with cancer, but if they hate T'Challa they're bad. That's a Sue.

>>95036067
Maybe I was hoping for a Firelord resurgence?

>>95035973
If you genuinely don't understand what people mean when they try to call Black Panther or whoever a Sue even as they attempt to elaborate and explain why they think that, wrong or not, then there is no helping you.

>>95036058
Yeah a lot of people use it incorrectly while screaming about affirmative action. You gonna attack their incorrect assumption or a word? Guess you'd rather play word games with them than tell them why they're wrong.

I'm not going to continue to derail the thread. Do what you gotta do.

>>95036098
>If you genuinely don't understand what people mean when they try to call Black Panther or whoever a Sue

But we do; they mean "character I don't like".

>>95032297
I think that have a weird respect/friendship for each other in canon; I could be wrong though.

Not that Marvel has editorial do that hardly matters does it.

>>95036084
>Firelord resurgence
Oh yeah those golden days when Firelord fanbase almost reached the double digits.

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>>95036148
I disagree only in that every now and again, there are characters that are, no shit, mary sues. Rey and Alice come to mind. T'challa is not though.

>>95036232
>Rey and Alice

Naw, they're just mains.

>>95036078
No real reason to.They're self-righteous cunts, but they keep to themselves. Besides, Namor already gave them free swimming lessons.

He is
BP and wakanda created by lee/kirby as black power fantasy

>>95036148
Or "characters whose wankery hurt the plot nd premise".

>>95027229
Well, he tries a lot. Overcompensating his terrible runs.

Thanks anon for not starting a race debate like anon intended everytime he posts this and instead creating an unexpected Black Panther discussion thread.

It's little things like this that I love about co.

>>95032660
I'd argue slightly less so in the case of Anakin as he has an established history, or future I guess, of being an important and highly force sensitive character. The podrace he won with his established force sensitivity and then the later space battle makes sense because 1) he is shown to be a capable pilot under stressful conditions by the race and 2) he's still incredibly force sensitive. If Anakin just hopped in a space ship and blew shit up without the demonstration of his piloting skill with the pod race I would agree with you.

>>95035199
Wakandan Slave wat do?

>>95039224
>Is Batman a Mary Sue?
>fair question
>Is Black Panther a Mary Sue?
>race bait
Is Black Panther special or something?

>>95027229
He's black, and because writers are too scared of giving black characters personality, he's a bland, serious, black man, who can do no wrong.