What are some things /co/ and Batfans cried about until BvS and

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>until BvS
>not until pic related

>>94839671
why Keaton looks so mean

>>94839671
That's not even as bad as blowing up all of Ace Chemicals with Joker's goons still in it.

>>94839671
Batman Returns was extremely cartoonish even for being dark, it had an army of intelligent penguins that Penguin controlled, Penguin was a mutant with black blood who lived in the sewer, Catwoman was brought back to life and magically given cat powers, and Batman somehow record scratched DJ style using a compact disc

For all we know, all that happened to that guy down there was it blew up and turned him all black and sooty while birds flew around his head

>>94841832
Or opening up on a street full of jokers goons with missiles and machine gun fire

>>94842000
He did light the fire spitter on fire too in the opening scene.

The difference is that
a) the movie is good
b) the movie didn't come out now, where people would almost certainly bitch if it did
c) this was Burton's unique take on Batman wherethe major aspects had parts altered. People watching the DCEU were expecting faithful adaptations of their characters like the MCU has done to a certain degree (some characters are different, but the core of the major ones are mostly intact)

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Not killing is a stupid rule and every time I think about it it makes me like Batman less, especially with regards to Joker

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>>94842000
Not that I disagree with your post but

>Catwoman was brought back to life and magically given cat powers
You are mistaking it with the Catwoman solo movie.

The movie makes it ambiguous as to whether she was somehow really brought back to life and got resurrection abilities or if she just survived normally and went crazy (the climax seems to support both sides and originally her survival was supposed to be ambiguous). And even then she didn't get "magical cat powers", she just stitched a shitty costume and did some gymnastics because she is insane just like everyone in this movie but Christopher Walken.

And The Penguin's black drool thing was just something that Danny DeVito and Ve Neill came up with while playing around with the make-up. It's not really supposed to imply anything supernatural.

>>94842309
Batmans whole schtick is about justice. He doesn't kill scumbags that deserve killing because he wants to see them go to court. Its the wests problem that they can't make comics entertaining without being pants on head retarded in regards to milking their beloved franchises.

>>94842115
Knocking one of Penguin's goons into a hole strapped with dynamite. Walks away smiling maniacally as he explodes

>>94842272
The difference is you're making bullshit excuses to cover up your obvious hypocrisy and double standards

>>94842000

Don't forget a circus dog catching a homing Batarang after dropping several goons.

>>94842000
>>94842394
I'm probably remembering it wrong but wasn't there something involving oil in the scene when Penguin died? I always assumed the black goo was that.

>insane just like everyone in this movie but Christopher Walken
That's pretty funny now that I think about it.

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>>94842830
>wasn't there something involving oil in the scene when Penguin died?
That's supposed to be toxic waste from Max Shreck's power plant which landed in the sewers. Remember early on he told Max that "there's a whole lagoon of this crud in the back" ? Presumably that's where he fell into and, alongside his injuries from the fight and explosions on his lair, killed him.

>>94839671
Don't mistake actual Batfans for /tv/ shitposters and Snyder dicksuckers

>Batman does not ever kill!
>Except in Batman 1989, Batman Returns, Batman Forever, Batman Begins and The Dark Knight
>But those clearly don't count because it was before and not by HACK SNYDER!!

Every time.

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>>94842905
Well, there you go. Remember that time Sean Young dressed as Catwoman and leapt onto the producer's sofa saying, "I am Catwoman!" because she really wanted the part and was escorted out of the building?

>>94842666
Except I mentioned how people would bitch if it were released today, you mental deficient.

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>>94843254
Yup.
Remember how Danny DeVito stayed in character as The Penguin constantly and almost got hit in the balls by a monkey ?

There's a lot of fun behind the scenes stories for Batman Returns.

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>>94842830
Yeah it's funny that Christopher Walken ends up playing the only sane man in the movie besides Alfred.

Apparently Tim Burton was against casting him as first, stating "that man scares the hell out of me"

>>94839671
I'm not against Batman killing in its movie versions, it's just that he came out as a coward, a hypocrite and it was overall inconsistent.
I mean, in Burton's Batman, he didn't have any issues killing the big bad guys too, but in BvS he only kills nameless goons but as we find out, Joker, Killer Croc, Deadshot and probably a bunch of other much more dangerous villains are still alive and well.
Not to mention the whole "killing by proxy" with him branding the guys he catches so others do the beating/killing for him is such a fucking cowardly thing to do.

>>94843822
>Joker, Killer Croc, Deadshot and probably a bunch of other much more dangerous villains are still alive and well.

He doesn't go around executing people like a serial killer, and bigger villains obviously have plot armor. And him killing is a relatively new thing, and people like Harley and Deadshot were only apprehended after BvS.

>>94843884
>He doesn't go around executing people like a serial killer
He certainly goes around branding them so they geat brutalized in prison. And considering he did it to dozens of criminals, I'd say he's either been doing it for quite a while or he's going branding people willy nilly every fucking night.

>>94843909

And branding was part of his new methods that Alfred comments on. That were clearly depicted to be wrong, and part of Batman losing the grip of himself as he's growing more violent, erratic and unnecessarily brutal.

And yeah, he'd been going all around town, trying to find the White Portuguese.

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>>94842309
>>94842522
Joker should have been fucking court-order lobotomized or executed by now. It pisses me off a little how overused he is by DC (almost as much as it does when they keep jumping Harvey Dent back and forth from being cured or not).
Can we please just let the characters move on and actually have some closure?

>>94844107

No.

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>>94843909
>He certainly goes around branding them so they geat brutalized in prison.
>>94844061
>And branding was part of his new methods that Alfred comments on


This was actually a thing that went on in Moon Knight, he branded criminals with his "moonerangs" with a moon symbol so they'd get fucked up

I'm more of a Marvel guy when it comes to comics so I don't know if this ever happened in Batman comics, but it certainly did in Moon Knight some time before BvS which is kind of ironic

>>94844453
>Tommy Wiseu is a criminal in DC comics

He didn't hit her!

>>94842666
>The difference is you're making bullshit excuses to cover up your obvious hypocrisy and double standards
If I shit in the toilet instead of on the dining room table is that hypocrisy and a double standard? It's shit either way so it's fine right?
Or could it be that context matters you fucking autist.

>>94844933
>Or could it be that context matters you fucking autist.

Funny how that doesn't apply to BvS.

>>94844894
Moon Knight is Marvel.

Heroes killing villains isn't the problem. The problem is in how its framed.
You dicks praise Snyder for showing bad things as bad and then you bitch at the audience going "WHY ARE YOU SAYING BAD THINGS WERE BAD! HYPOCRITES!"
If you don't want the hero killing or the destruction of civilians to be seen as a negative, don't frame it as such. It's that fucking simple. Literally every other action director did it because they know that if they use the genre conventions instead of pretentiously trying to deconstruct them, people will roll with it.

>>94844948
Fuck I was thinking Lobster Johnson.

>>94844952
>You dicks praise Snyder for showing bad things as bad and then you bitch at the audience going "WHY ARE YOU SAYING BAD THINGS WERE BAD! HYPOCRITES!"

No? People point out Batman is a villain who gets redeemed in BvS. By the end he's becoming classic Batman again.

>>94844939
No, it absolutely does apply.
BvS says that Batman killing is wrong. It focuses on Batman's brutality as a bad thing and a sign that he's fallen. The movie bashes you over the head with "This Batman is kind of an asshole."
So the audience goes "Man this Batman is kind of an asshole"
And then YOU come along and you go "How dare you say Batman was an asshole?! Why didn't you say it these other times!?"

Because the other movies didn't bash us over the head with him being an asshole, you idiot!

>>94844977
But the argument isn't
>Batman sucks in BvS because the movie says batman killing is bad and he's acting like an asshole!
It's
>BvS sucks and so does Batman in it because he kills people!

That's why people bring up the other Batman movies where he also kills people.

>>94845036
The other movies don't frame it as being a deal breaker like this one does. People believe what the movie tells them to. Snyder isn't good at making his heroes come off as heroic, even if their actions are. He can't render charisma and doesn't understand tone.
You can kill off billions if the tone supports it. You can have the hero drop a nuke on an unsuspecting and mostly innocent population if the tone supports it. The act itself is almost irrelevant in light of tone. Do you have any idea how many laws characters like John McClane or Dirty Harry break? Do you have any idea how few fucks people give because of the tone?
It's nobody's fault that Snyder doesn't get this but Snyder. And the literalminded autists defending him can't grasp this simple, obvious fact either.
Tone Matters.

>>94845036

And plenty of people are annoyed by Batman killing in those movies too, it's just that the rest of the movie was good enough to not have it matter that much. /co/ loves memeing about I DON'T HAVE TO SAVE YOU, that doesn't mean those people don't like Begins.

BvS wants to have it both ways, where it luxuriates in all the badass action Batman does murdering people and then tries to pretend it's trying to say something about vilgilanteism or PTSD or whatever the fuck. Snyder's obsession with surface-level cool has always killed the themes of his stories.

At least Burton doesn't want to have it both ways, those movies are insane pulp fever dreams starring a freak in a rubber suit who murders people.

>>94845095
>The other movies don't frame it as being a deal breaker like this one doe

Neither does BvS unless you cannot accept Batman being semi-villainous.

>>94845149
Darkness induced viewer apathy. People were so starved for a character with charm in BvS that they latched onto 30 seconds of Gadot's garbled english over fucking Superman.

>>94845149

>Neither does BvS unless you cannot accept Batman being semi-villainous.

I could if Snyder could. He's too busy trying to make Affleck look badass to make him actually flawed.

It's his version of Rorschach all over again.

>>94842394
Didn't she get shot like fucking 6 times at the end and counted down all the lives she had?

>>94845184
But Moore was the one who fucked up and made Rorschach too cool for his role.

>>94845184
>It's his version of Rorschach all over again.

Incorrect. In Watchmen he does focus too much on people being cool. But in BvS Batman is very flawed, clearly in the wrong and pigheaded on his bias being right from very early on. That's why he's lying to Alfred and making excuses to justify his behavior.

MY PARENTS ARE DEEEEEEAAAAAAAD!

>>94845169
As a viewer, I didn't have this problem.
I felt for Clark plenty in the movie

>>94845169

I thought there were plenty of charm to around with the entire cast. Gal included.

>>94845228

Sure, but it's not like Burton's movies take place in the real world, they're very clearly fairy-tale esque.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2yDjO6FcuYU

>>94845241

>But in BvS Batman is very flawed, clearly in the wrong and pigheaded on his bias being right from very early on. That's why he's lying to Alfred and making excuses to justify his behavior.

Disagree, it's the same problems he had in Watchmen but somehow worse. Even in the opneing scene with all the 9/11 imagery he needs Bruce Tokyo Drifting around falling rubble in his sweet SUV because heaven the fuck forbid he stops letting Batman be cool for one second.

Snyder is only interested in story and theme insofar as they can fuel his imagery, and will chuck both if he can make it look cool.

>>94839671
BvS is terrible, that's why people bitch.

And Returns didn't have a horde of idiots trying to convince anyone that it was a masterpiece

>>94845248
Feeling sorry for him isn't the same as thinking he's cool

>>94845298
>Even in the opneing scene with all the 9/11 imagery he needs Bruce Tokyo Drifting around falling rubble in his sweet SUV because heaven the fuck forbid he stops letting Batman be cool for one second.

Oh for fuck's sake. Really? You're bitching about an intense driving sequence where he's trying to get to his company building while the city is falling apart around him? It's Batman driving a car during a cataclysmic event, not Driving Miss Fucking Daisie. Of course it's going to look like that, it'd be boring otherwise and wouldn't sell the impending doom, the feeling of dread, terror and fear from a pedestrian POV that colors Batman's entire perspective when it comes to Superman for the rest of the movie.

Hated Batman killing in Burton's movies. Hated it in Nolan's movies. And I hated it in Snyder's.

But the difference with the first two, is that at least they had a quality movie to back it up.

>>94844107
what's the context of that panel? looks like injustice

>>94845368
See the thing you don't understand is that when you go on about intensity or feelings of dread or terror or fear, those are YOUR feelings. Snyder didn't make EVERYONE feel those things. He didn't even make a MAJORITY of people feel those things. Your feelings are only valid for YOU.

And yes, that's true for every movie and every director .It's a number's game. And better movies and better directors manage to get a bigger majority of people to feel things intentionally.

>>94845368

>ou're bitching about an intense driving sequence where he's trying to get to his company building while the city is falling apart around him?

Becuase it's not presented as intense or scary from Bruce's perspective until the driving sequence is over and he finds Scoot Macnairy, the car bits are shot like a Roland Emmerich setpiece of some awesome guy driving their way around falling debris. It could have been plucked right out of 2012.

It's no different in the title match, where Snyder gives Bruce a bunch of god-awful one-liners and "cool" moments like smashing the sink over Clark's head like a fucking professional wrestler to show how awesome he is even while trying to present him as a terrifying monster at the same time. Snyder is functionally incapable of doing anything that gets in the way of "cool."

It's why his version of Luthor is so awful, Snyder can't figure out how to make Jesse Eisenberg badass in the same way so the character just spouts metaphorical psychobabble and shoves Jolly Ranchers into people's mouths. The man hasn't matured since 300.

>>94845527
>>94845527

His Lex was great, especially when he's blakcmailing Clark with the pictures of his mother. Or when he's talking to the Senator in his father's study.

>>94845544

> especially when he's blakcmailing Clark with the pictures of his mother. Or when he's talking to the Senator in his father's study.

Listening to Terrio's university term-paper about mythological symbolism is the opposite of great. I can give some credit to Eisenberg for trying to insert some measure of personality into a movie that had none anywhere else, but it didn't work.

Hackman Luthor was more menacing then Eisenlex.

>>94845353
this. but I feel like there's at least a couple people out there

>>94845095
>>94845139

thread over, lets go home

>>94845544
There's very little difference between this Lex and Jim Carrey as the Riddler. And that's not a compliment.

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>>94845544
>Lex "Peach Tea" Luthor
DRINK MY URINE SENATOR

>>94846015

I thought you people kept insisting he was the Joker? When did you switch to Riddler?

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>>94845460
>Despite not hitting the heights it could have, the majority did get into the movie, at a fairly solid 7/10.
>Not even counting people who had mixed feelings, at least some of which will have liked Batman, because Batfleck was one of the most praised things in the movie.

>He didn't even make a MAJORITY of people feel those things. Your feelings are only valid for YOU.

Not him, but give it a rest and knock off the "it's just you, you sad fucker" argument. Around 70% of people who saw the movie liked it. A further 10% sound some things to like enough that they couldn't outright bring themselves to give it a negative rating.

You are solidly in a very vocal 20/25%. That's just the numbers. If anyone is the one who is being loud with their personal feelings rather than objectice points, it's you.

>>94845368

Agreed, but let it go man. Nothing you say will stick. It's hip to shit of the DCEU and Snyder. Let them get on with it while we enjoy the movies and they make money. Some people just like to bitch and moan.

>>94846377
What metric are you using for your numbers?

>>94846535
>6.6 on iMDb
>72% on Google
>63% liked it on RT
>7.0 on Meta, with 3723 Positive, 1059 Mixed to 1000 Negative.

I include the extra numbers on Meta, because mixed isn't bad. It's mixed. Those people probably don't regret buying a ticket, they just had issues with parts of the films. Thats nearby 5000 to 1000 people who didn't hate it, or 4000 to 1000 who actively enjoyed it if we throw out the Mixed.. Or, 1 in 6/5 disliked it, on average. I'm not trying to say it was the best movie ever and you have to like it, but making out that anyone who does like it is in the minority is just dishonest.

>>94844061
>new methods
Again, he branded dozens of guys, which means it's either not that new, or he goes around branding people every single night, which is just as shitty, and doesn't justify someone like Alfred still working with him.

>>94844061
>he'd been going all around town, trying to find the White Portuguese.
And again, if he had to brand dozens of guys before even getting a single lead on the White Portuguese, he's just the worst detective in the world.

You can just tell that this draft needed at least one more draft before being ready to film it. There's a lot of shit there that could've been interesting but it never

>>94847317
*never comes together

>>94847076
You obviously don't know how to process data. 63% approval on RT, for instance is actually quite shitty since people who like the movie are more prone to go and vote for it that people who didn't care for it.
The biggest proof about audience reception is how it collapsed at the box office. People didn't went to see it again, nor recommended it to others. If it would've actually resonated with the audience, it would've been a hit despite critical reception, like the first bunch of Transformers movies.
It's true that general audience don't really hate it as much as many media outlets let you believe, of course. It wasn't Green Lantern. As always, the truth lies somewhere inbetween.
And at any rate, Wonder Woman's smashing success shows that the audience doesn't really have any bias towards DC but towards Snyder's films. He has delivered nothing but flops since 300.

>>94847722

Sorry anon, not buying what you are selling (and also noting how you go to the lowest agg number). iMBb and Meta are actual reviews, if mini ones on the latter, and give a nice test sample of how it's reception is spread.

I have never gone back to see any movie a second time, even if I loved it. I just look forwards to buying my own copy and then do so.

I generally agree with the last half of your post though.