Daredevil was pretty much the only good parts of the Defenders,

That's because Daredevil is Marvel's best character by far.

>>94817327
What makes you say that? No, really, I want to know why you think that.

>>94817375
because he is blind.

>Not wanting Frank

>>94817327
hes blind. he appeals to the disabled.

yeah sure, theres professor X but hes bald. nobody likes bald people.

>>94817410
wut

He'll be a lot better now that Elektra is out of the picture again (albeit probably temporarily)

I like Charlie Cox's Daredevil, but much like comics Daredevil, the way he acts totally loopy at just the mention of the ninja antichrist is corny to me.

Also part of the problem with Netflix Luke Cage is that he's boring modern respectability politics conservative black dude Luke Cage instead of being a cool pissed off loud guy

I'd rather be a cool stereotype than a boring mold breaker

>>94817289
Funnily enough, S2 went south the moment the show stopped being about Frank franking people and started with the ninja shit.

>>94817436
>make blind character
>blind people can't watch his show
Seriously, Marvel?

>>94817460
Daredevil was trained by ninjas? They stole that from Batman Begins.

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>>94817455
I think Daredevil will be better now that they have all that Kung Fu mystic Hand shit out of the way. That's what really brought down the second half of season 2. It was much better when he had down to earth enemies and I hope we see more of that.

>>94817555
Did they?

The Defenders didn't directly, visibly take out a single member of the Hand. Matt survived the explosion and the cave in, why wouldn't the rest?

Will we ever be done with this stupid ninja bullshit?

>>94817553
Batman was trained by ninjas? They stole that from Teenage Mutant Ninja Turdles.

>>94817663
The Ninja Turtles were trained by ninjas? They stole that from Daredevil.

>>94817481
It's so disrespectful to all the blind comic book fans out there.

>>94817699
Daredevil was trained by ninjas? They stole that from Batman Begins.

>>94817729
Batman begins? They stole that from the fantastic four's origin story where they also begin.

>>94817732
That's not fair, the Defenders have diverse heroes like Blind Puncher, Lady Puncher, Black Puncher, and Magic Puncher.

>>94817289
Jessica Jones haaa only ever had one good story, and the spotlight is entirely on the Purple Man.

As much as Marvel likes to shill luke Cage, hes actual super bland in terms of character, powers, villains and story.

Iron fist is alright, but again has no stabd out features stories or villains.

Is it really surprising the Netflix show went downhill?

>>94817755
They need to get cyclops on their team. He's the master of the punchforce.

>>94817755
I still don't really know what makes Jessica special. She has super strength? Well woopde do. Luke Cage is super strong but also has invincibility to go with it. And Iron Fist can punch through almost anything so he's better in a fight and know martial arts too. Daredevil is basically the batman of the group.

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>>94817435
But I do, anon. I really want to see Frank again. He was easily the best part of season 2 of DD.

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>>94817768
>As much as Marvel likes to shill luke Cage, hes actual super bland in terms of character, powers, villains and story.
They took cottonmouth and made him a memorable and compelling character, mostly by means of perfect casting.
Then they killed him and replaced him with a janitor.
So they can do it, but they decide to shit the bed right after for the lulz.

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>>94817861
I actually felt bad for Cottonmouth. He didn't deserve to die. He didn't want that life. He wanted to be a musician. And he was right in calling out his shit stain sister.

>>94817594
They should keep Gao. She was the best villain they had (prior to Defenders, where they shat all over the Hand together with her).

>>94817790
She can jump high.

>tfw no stilt-man

>>94817768
Jessica Jones had a great premise of a snarky alcoholic detective dealing with cases in Marvel Universe. They should leaned harder into the procedural potential of her premise. But as opposed to all the other detective procedural shows out there, hers would have the distinction of being set in the universe where everything is possible.
And instead we got JESSECAH for 13 episodes straight. That shit got old real fast.

>>94818021
Netflix can't afford Stilt-Man. This is how laughable their budget is.

>>94817790
>I still don't really know what makes Jessica special.
She's a detective, the greatest power of all.

>>94817481
Doesn't Daredevil have an extensive described video track, though? I think I remember Netflix advertising with that.

>>94818198
Iron fist can hire better investigators though. Also, pretty sure that guns legitimately are better than Jessica.

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>>94817732
leave Netflix to us

>>94817663
>>94817699
Ironic because the TMNT is chock full of DD references because Eastman and Laird were huge fans.

>>94818046
But all you need for Silt-Man are two tall sticks and a carny. Then just have some costume designers slap some tacticool shit on the sticks.

>>94818903
We all know that, lighten up. Where do you think we are?

>>94817289
he has the best source material, and since Netflix Marvel is just the comics but worse, he therefore has the best show.

>>94817960
Nah, I just want it all gone. She's okay but her "spooky Chinese lady" gimmick got old once they didn't push it past "ooh has force push."

That's the other thing, the villains' comeuppance was as light on payoff as possible. After all this time dealing with Gao in multiple series, I really wanted her to get taken down a peg, but she just got thrown around like twice and ostensibly "dies."

Watch literally nothing that happened in the last episode count for anything, just watch. Hand somehow survived with splinter organizations,
Gao and dude made it out, they got substance, Elektra comes back to shit everything up again, Matt comes back,
nothing happens except that annoying fuck Bakuto hopefully stays dead.
Hopefully.

>>94819750
How come that one Japanese dude could understand what everyone was saying but never used any English? And how come everybody around him could understand exactly what he was saying but never spoke Japanese back at him. And saying one or two words of Japanese they know doesn't count.

>>94820018
is the concept of speaking more than one language so unbelievable to you?

>>94820018
Well, you could easily handwave that as Japanese pride, they did mention him going back to visit. They've been together a while, they probably know it or picked up on it. Far from the worst hole in the series.

>>94818198
Daredevil legit had much better detective work in the first four episodes of his first season than all of JJ combined. She's not even any good at it when she does it, she gets it wrong all the time and literally has to be handed it come the end.

>>94820053
Did I say that? No, I didn't. I asked why nobody ever spoke to him in his language if they understood him.

>>94817375
Not him, but I can chalk it up to several factors.

>Timing
Everyone's past comes back to bite them in their first season, except for Matt, whose past returns in Season 2. Because we got a whole season of him as a character before we got into more of his backstory, we got to see a greater range of who Matt is as a person, before we learn why that is. Luke, Jessica, and Danny all have their backstories front and center and integral to why they are who they are, which while illuminating, kinda kills the future potential of learning about it. We're all up-to-date with them from the getgo, which is why Defenders starts so poorly. Luke is out of prison, Jessica kinda wants to do some hero stuff I guess, and Danny's tracking the Hand still. Matt's the only one whose story has actually advanced in between the shows.

>Concise writing
Each of the Defenders has their own baggage and dark pasts to grow out of. However, none of their pasts directly lead up to how they are when each series begins and doesn't necessarily inform where theirs ends. They each manage to overcome their past but for all of them, their fates as heroes are left dangling. Danny leaves, Luke is taken away, and Jessica is just as non-committed as ever as we see when Defenders starts. But Matt, his issues of rage and inadequacy are exactly what propel him into the second scene of Daredevil where he is saving people in costume. He already has the hero thing lined up as part of his life, secret though it is, and the complexities in his relationships come from that. And that leads into:

>Heroism
Matt's very first act onscreen is saving someone and getting blinded. From the first moment, Matt's a hero. It's driven by goodness and his faith, and he's the one most quick to jump into action from the very beginning.

(cont)

>>94820147
(cont)
>Faith
Weird as this sounds, most characters nowadays have faith as a side-note, in order for them to appeal to as mass an audience as possible. Matt's Catholicism is integral to his character and his hero identity, and informs his no-kill code.
>Conflict
Because he has this hero double-life from the start, it's the first place for interpersonal drama to come from. Matt's arguments and issues with Foggy come directly from his own stubbornness, which while seeded in his own anger is still altruistic in outcome. He wouldn't be nearly as compelling of a character if his friends were so cool with his heroics as Jessica or Luke or Danny. Because his friends aren't happy with it, it makes what he wants to do more difficult. Of course, none of this would matter if the portrayal itself were bad, which:
>Acting
Matt is by far the best acted, most likable, and most fascinating character to watch. Luke has a natural smoothness but still has very stilted delivery. Jessica's a decent actress, since you believe she's a total cunt, but in the end you see a total cunt. Danny is either a wooden standup or a petulant child, making you wonder how K'un L'un failed to train him to handle his rage in a way Matt with just Stick succeeded. Matt is the one who is capable of acting as an actual adult in a scene, with maturity, charisma, sympathy, and intimidation. He pulls off the range of emotions necessary superbly, without the use of eye contact as Charlie Cox has gotten very good at not focusing with his eyes to make Matt seem more genuine.

(cont.)

>>94820147
>>94820186

>Nuances
None of the other series have the level of tiny details that made Daredevil great. Things that are obvious and smart, like his apartment setup, and the little touches of him staying at pace with everyone with his blind-aid technology that goes unremarked. Even focusing on his senses, while it can be expository, gives us a way into the character who can't see what we see. Anytime he crooks his head and we hear the collective noise of New York being tuned out, it personalizes that as Matt-time more than any poorly-done pulp narration can. Matt's disability makes him and his acting as a character much more nuanced than any of them.

>Directing
Because of those nuances, the camera has to show you enough to portray that, and because most of the time it just involves sensory details, there's no bullshit trying to hide the special effects that we see with the strong characters. Matt's the only one whose fighting is well portrayed and fun, and the only one whose acting is given enough situation to be flexed all around.

>Themes
Matt's job of choice is yet again an extension of him trying to help people and another factor as to why he wants to be Daredevil, and that legal theme ties into everything else in his series as well. Jessica is a poor detective, with detective stuff being the setup for what is really excuses for character interaction, and nothing can be said about Danny because he doesn't involve himself with enough business work for it to be a legitimate factor in his character, since that shit was dropped halfway into the series.
(cont)

>>94820147
>>94820186
>>94820538
>Theme was probably the wrong word, I guess I meant motif?
Luke was probably a pretty good cop, but not enough of their jobs factor well into the character arcs themselves. Luke has trouble with the law out of his own attempts to save Harlem, but the major issues are caused by outside forces impersonating him. Matt, meanwhile, actively has beaten up several cops in order to escape, which complicates his character. And these complications all have consequences.

>Consequences
In Jessica Jones, you can inject someone with a full syringe of sedative without being an anesthesiologist, smash people on the head to knock them out, and there will be no repercussions at all. Luke gets two major injuries which involve Claire fixing him at length, and then nothing beyond that. Danny can't get it up sometimes, but it's okay because we can't afford the effects or stunt time anyway.

Matt starts his second episode practically on death's door, and spends the following episode recovering from his wounds. He does the same several more times throughout his two seasons, which informs why his friends are so against him being a hero. He's the only one who seems to get his shit pushed in, despite how strong he is. His injuries in being Daredevil, even before his friends find out, affects his relationships with them and his own job performance. Matt is the only one of the Defenders to actually suffer physically for his actions.

(concl.)

>>94820147
>>94820186
>>94820538
>>94820565

With all of this in play, you have a hero driven to save people on and off the job by his upbringing and his faith. His drive to be Daredevil comes from his own anger problems, which is why he enjoys it when he can finally take that anger out on someone, which concerns him deeply when he does. He's committed to what he's doing because of the difference he makes in Hell's Kitchen and his own psyche and he suffers for it, emotionally abandoned and physically broken. He's the only good character and beyond that he's a fantastic character. Everyone else just looks so much more insufficient next to him. And that's not even getting into his moral arguments with Frank and the drama that produces.

>>94820588
I completely agree and loved reading what you wrote. Thank you!

>>94817375
Well all avengers are shit maybe only a few good stories between em and they are all 10 plus years old
Spider-man has good stories but suffers from needing too read too much of the catolog to enjoy it and from slotts shitty stale writing
Xmen where good but marvel hates them all besides deadpool whos been written to death same with f4
Daredevil has alot of good stories even bendis daredevil is good he has had consistently been good too more than any other marvel or dc charachter and isnt affected by recent pandering
Also im a diffrent guy who happens to agree and i prefer dc to marvel

>>94820773
I agree. Sure it hasn't all been good, but Daredevil is one of the most constantly well written characters in all comics. At the very least he is marvels best.

>>94817289
It sucks that we got Iron Fist this year instead of DD season 3. I could care less about the other character, I just want a DD and Punisher tv verse.

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Now I want to watch Daredevil again. I can't decide if I should watch Season 1 or Season 2 first. Season 1 had the most consistent quality, but the first half of Season 2 is really good while the second isn't so great.

>>94821028
But the second half had the prison stuff, which was the best part of season 2. I didnt mind Electra that much either, though the Hand are weak antagonist and Nobu was lame.

>>94821152
I just get so damn bored of the Hand. I get that the Hand is supposed to be the "big" bad guy. But they're so cartoonish I just can't really take them seriously. And none of the villains are memorable either. Madame Gao was kind of mysterious when we first saw her, but that's because we had an inkling she was part of something bigger. But now we know what she's a part of, and it's really boring. Wilson Fisk was actually a very interesting antagonist. And seeing how the Punisher and Daredevil interacted was also pretty good. The more human and down to earth the better.

>>94820588

Great set of posts, anon.

>>94820099

Why would you bother? Who wants to speak in a second language if you can speak your own language and be understood? It's like Tekken

>>94822255
To keep practicing so you don't forget?

>>94821331
I love the Hand, but they were seriously mishandled.

>>94820588
Now, see, all of this is what made the end so frustrating for me.

Matt has the most at stake; he has to hide his identity for very real, concrete reasons past just "Protecting my friends" as every superhero ever does, and he has a lot of backstory, motivation, nuance, and thought behind his character. It makes it all the more frustrating when he just decides to basically commit suicide for no reason. Yes, his love for Elektra, even if it's really poorly timed, is established both in his own show and in the Defenders, but it really rung hollow at the end. He didn't do it for the city, he didn't do it to ensure the Hand didn't escape, he didn't do it for anything other than "ELEKTRAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAA"

And it really, dearly rubbed me the wrong way.

I'm just finished Defenders and holy fuck
>tfw that scene where Matt talks to Elektra about darkness using the corniest dialogue possible
It's CW-tier. Daredevil S1 had its share of cliche lines, but wasn't that bad. I have no idea how Cox could deliver those lines with a straight face.

>>94823072
he probably got a reasonably nice paycheck to do so

>>94817327
>>94817327
And that's cause he's red Batman

>>94817861
They killed off Cottonmouth cause they couldnt afford the actor.

>>94823167
Daredevil did a better job of giving a thematic reasoning behind Daredevil than Batman ever did.

>>94817893
I saw strong parallels between him and Kingpin AND Mariah. He wasn't cut out for that life, but was forced into it and his scheme was legitimately low-tier gentrification. I actually loved how the sum given in LC was only a few million dollars, because it's STILL an extremely large amount of money to try and save up illicitly and pay for the forces necessary to protect it. Shades was great till the end but I just didn't care for Mariah or Diamondback a bit.

>>94820588

Wonderful read, thank you.

>>94823204
Batman Begins did just about the same thing.

>>94823123
>Perlmutter
>reasonably nice paycheck
lmao desu senpai

>>94819750
Christ, I hope the Hand never comes back. They were the worst part of DDS2, apparently they're prominent in Iron Fist, and the only "member" that felt like a threat was Elektra

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>>94817289
>Daredevil was pretty much the only good parts of the Defenders
I'd argue that Jessica Jones was the best part of the Defenders, Matt might as well have not been there. I love Moot to bits but she didn't make for a very menacing antagonist, also.
Elektra they should just keep dead.

>>94823742
Can you explain why you think Jessica was the best? I cannot wrap my brain around it.

>>94824262
She did things, managed to show some personality and her scenes were, to me, the most interesting part of the show. Matt was just there. He felt out of place, grossly underwritten.

>>94823167
Its the other way around though. Miller revolutionized both characters, but he did Daredevil first. One of the few instances where DC actually copied Marvel.

>>94818846
I don't want Netflix anywhere near Moon Knight or Ghost Rider.

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>>94817729
cough cough

>>94824485
She did barely anything though. Even the things she did most of the time were reluctant and complained about. What about her personality shined through it all??

>>94824653
I don't want Netflix anywhere near any of those characters because they're more than likely to fuck it up given their previous outings.

>>94824653
Moon Knight should be given to Legion or at least Hannibal people only.

>>94824660
>She did barely anything though.
Rewatch the show, then.

>>94824872
You gotta say something better than "nuh uh", man, there's nothing rewatchable about Defenders.

In all honesty I just want Frank to kiss Matt in MCU.

>>94824901
But that's exactly what you did, I'm not going to describe the show scene by scene.
>reluctant and complained about. What about her personality shined through it all??
You just answered your own question, I don't know what to tell you.

>>94824909
I want you to run into one of those hate groups who lynch gays.

>>94817289
"Daredevil is a hit! How can we recreate it?"
"Daredevil is dark and gritty. Let's make more shows like that."
"What about the writing, acting, directing and choreography?"
"Fire that man."

>>94824957
You didn't give any example of anything that was exceptional. I was hoping for a reason behind each of those because from what I saw she didn't do much of anything and was only marginally less generic than Luke Cage.

>>94819750
I just want them to kill Gao so I no longer have to worry about her getting awkwardly written out of the script when she dies mid-season. At least I don't have to worry about Stick anymore.

>>94825066
>You didn't give any example of anything that was exceptional.
I assume we both watched the show, and I never used the word "exceptional," that's all you. She did a bit of detective work and was pretty much forced into the team, but it was nice to have her mocking matt and being a grump, in contrast to the group of planks she was with.
I don't think this season was very good, but she stood out for me in all that mediocrity.

I sort of agree (Although I didn't watch Luke Cage and Iron Fist) and I feel that maybe they just don't like superheroes?

Daredevil story is barely a superhero one, it's just people with little to no enchancement punching, shooting and stabbing each other

>>94826344
It's really obvious that the people behind the Netflix shows are embarrassed of superheroes. They're constantly tossing shade at the "corny" costumes and names and origins.

>>94817327
FPBP.

>>94823631
They're a fun opponent in the comics, but the Netflixverse stripped away their visual style and butchered their lore.