I know you all are probably tired of this, but I got to watching

>>94792375
>Why are people defending this shit?

Batfags are the most delusional fanbase on the planet

1. The love Zack Snyder
2. They live that DC logo so much they'll praise literal shit as long as it has a DC logo on it
3. They're underaged
4. They want to be contrarian to MCU fanboys

>>94792397
I liked Batman, but he was the biggest idiot in the movie.
>Dreams about a dark future where he kills people
>Is shocked
>Goes out and kills people
I don't want to be like "not muh Batman", but not MUH Batman. I like the idea of a more violent Bruce, but not the one that throws cars full of people onto people.
And what was it with him falling for Luthor's stupid plan, even when it didn't make sense.
>Guy from my company blew up the Capitol
>Left crazy notes
>Gotta go kill Superman now

>>94792467
I get all that, but how do they actually enjoy the movie? I can't fathom that.

>>94792625

I just rewatched The Matrix last night on Netflix.

I think a lot of people want and expect punching and a lot of action in their Superhero movies. They don't really care about characterizations or comedy. A joke here or there is fine, but it's not a comedy film they are paying, MUCH LESS WANTING to see.

And I think people really want video game level of violence. The only thing I think was really well done in BvS was the Batman warehouse sequence. I don't play shooter type video games and I'm not at all a Batfag, so it was simple admiration for good action, and for entertainment. That said, I also called Star Trek Into Darkness a good popcorn movie when we saw it on Imax, but it's not something I can rewatch at all because it's just way too stupid for words.

I think the action, the video game level of it, and so forth are what people like and all the other stuff is just defensive posturing (too deep for you), etc. It's not really a "Batman" or a "Superman" movie, it's essentially filmic fan fiction with a very high budget.

>>94792375
Because the capeshit audience ain't very bright. Most of them haven't even seen a good film because all they watch is capeshit.

>>94792625
>I get all that, but how do they actually enjoy the movie? I can't fathom that.
No matter how bad a film is, there will be about 10% of the population that feel the film personally speaks to them. This applies for ANY film. And the more fringe the film is, the more likely that 10% would be fanatical supporters, because the 10% probably couldn't find other films appealing to them.

>>94793008
The warehouse scene was really well done, I'll give Snyder that. I also liked whole fight with Doomsday. Those effects they used on WW looked great. But the rest of the movie was such a slog and not because I only like action, it really was.
People do like action, but BvS wasn't just catering to the people that like fighting, it tried to be deep and grim, and serious. I just feel like action is what's Snyder's good at, that's why it came out well.

your a marvel fanboy

OP is a faggot trying to poke a hornet's nest by playing both sides

>>94792375
its a good movie

>>94792397
I'm not a batfag at all and I love BvS.


>>94792467
nope, its genuinely good.


>>94792588
Its amazing how detractors like you cant even remember the movie correctly or understand the most bsaic plot points. He wasnt "shocked" that he was killing people in his dream in the sens you are implying--if anything, from his perspective, its a manifistation of his fears about what Superman could become. Also there was way more that went into Batman becoming desperate to get the kryptonite--like Luthor engineering it to seem like his bat-brand was responsible for getting people killed in prison and, you know, the idea that Superman's very presence was causing mass terrorism. God damn my dude, at least use the brain you were born with.


>>94792625
Its good.


>>94793486
>>94793008
I honestly like all the parts surrounding the fights better than the fights themselves. When you say stuff like it was "grim" and that it was a "slog" it says to me you really didnt try to engage with the film at all. Especially since its a movie all about hope at its core and really the furthest thing from "grim," but you can't get past the most surface level "tone."


>>94793150

> there will be about 10% of the population that feel the film personally speaks to them


God, you people are always so insane. By ANY actual metric the majority of the people who saw it liked it. Rotten Tomatoes audience score, pic related, etc. Its just that the faux nerd crowd that populates reddit, tumblr, /co/, etc. are a very loud minority that buy into groupthink too much.
>>94793554
you're

>>94793605
yeah he is, so dont bump the thread and just use sage you faggot

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>>94793627
forgot pic

>>94792375
>It was worse than I expected /co. Why are people defending this shit?
I am a 100% with you.
I watched the director's cut a few months ago after seeing almost 1 year of threads about this movie on /co/.
I can't comprehend how some people can defend or even just enjoy this movie.

It's so bad, it's so obvious they fucked up, it's not even a question of taste.
It's like serving a cake so burnt it's charcoal to your guests and answering it's a question of taste when they say it's awful.

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>>94793769
>>94792375
>>94792588
>its just bad because it is!
>Batman was the dumb one, not me who couldnt even understand the plot!

AHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAAH

>>94793627
>God, you people are always so insane. By ANY actual metric the majority of the people who saw it liked it
If that is true, there wouldn't be people demanding that /co/ stop disliking BvS every damn week. No one is demanding with constant threads that people stop disliking Wonderwoman, because Wonderwoman is actually good. If BvS is well received then there would not be any need to defend it.

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Why does Snyder hate the idea of friends?

>>94793554
Dang, you got me.

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>There are actually people who think BvS was the best DC movie and Wonder Woman was a mistake.

>>94793640
You in on that /tv/ and DCEU reddit voted in drove for it, in part for trolling, and in part for >>94792467 right?

It sold less than civil war and deadpool, and every critic site puts it as "barely passable" and not as "great movie" like you fucks defend.

>>94793825
>there wouldn't be people demanding that /co/ stop disliking BvS every damn week.

but there isnt you stupid faggot, stop making things up, theres just idiots who say "I DONT GET WHY ANYONE CAN LIKE THIS, ITS JUST BAD BECAUSE IT IS!!"


>If BvS is well received then there would not be any need to defend it.


Goddamn, this makes no logical sense as an argument why are so dim? Saying the majority of the people who saw it liked it does not mean it was well recieved--why are you so fucking retarded that you think these two things are the same? And did you not even read my entire post I said:


>Its just that the faux nerd crowd that populates reddit, tumblr, /co/, etc. are a very loud minority that buy into groupthink too much.
>LOUD MINORITY


that right there is why there are people making shit threads on /co/ every week, because the people who dislike it are loud crybabies who cant understand why other people do like it and refuse to let that stand because "ITS US VS THEM!!"


God, it fucking hurt me to have to explain all of this to you, but I hate when idiots like you make these non-sensical points and sit there thinking "checkmate!" as if what you said actually made any fucking sense in the context of what came before it.

>>94792375
Speaking of this movie, has there been a fan edit that includes the deleted scenes? I can't believe they deleted so many important scenes that were important to follow the plot.

Deleting scenes that explained why and who was killing the branded criminals and who sent the letters to Bruce.

>>94793919
>people liking the movie is trolling now

how much sadder can you fucks get? Also it made more money than deadpool you idiot, and how much money it makes is in no way related to the phrase "the majority of the people who saw it, liked it."

Why do you retards keep bringing up things that have NOTHING to do with the argument?

>>94793973
holy shit you retard, there is literally an extended cut and there are no other deleted scenes available than the ones included in it.

>>94793806
I'm not op and had no problem understanding the plot.
And yes, when you have 1h15 of introduction devoid of any momentum, people are right when talking about a slog.
And the action scenes weren't even good enough to make up for it. Especially not the destruction porn and lighting show that pose as a final fight.

>>94793769
Exactly how I feel anon.
>inb4 samefag

>>94793826
People can't be friends, they can only begrudgingly tolerate each others company.

>>94794072
>its just bad because it was
>it had no momentum because I say so

It had lots of momentum my dude--I bet you think My Dinner with Andre is a boring movie too.

>>94793939

>theres just idiots who say "I DONT GET WHY ANYONE CAN LIKE THIS, ITS JUST BAD BECAUSE IT IS!!"

lel

It's hard to take you seriously when your defence of this movie either boils down to

>THAT WAS THE POINT

or

>YOU JUST DON'T GET IT

You sound like those fruitcakes that think The Shining was a secret metaphor for the moon landing, just repeating yourself over and over again until people get tired and thus declaring yourself a winner.

Protip: just because "THAT WAS THE POINT" doesn't make the point inherently worthwhile or defensible. It can be a bad or uninteresting point, and Snyder's inability to handle tone combined with his masturbatory need to insert surface-level cool ruins the thematics of his stories every time.

He fucked up Watchmen and now he's gotten his hands on actual DC characters.

>>94794108

>I bet you think My Dinner with Andre is a boring movie too.

I refuse to believe anyone thinks BvS has dialogue on the level of My Dinner With Andre.

>>94793973
It's all in the directors cut m8. But it really doesn't make it better. Dunno what the movies was like when it came out, but the extended cut still feels like a mess.

>>94793998
Why am I retarded? I only seen the theatrical cut. Stop fanboying so hard for a garbage movie

>>94793826
>>94794107
its like you retards dont even watch these movies. Snyder's Superman is one of the most easy going when it comes to making friends. He takes Pete Ross' hand after Ross had been nothing but a bully to him. He accepts and works with Batman IMMEDIATELY after he almost kills him--and even trusts him enough to save his mom. He trusts and works with WW while knowing nothing about her except that she wanst to help.
its like you guys make up a movie to hate.

>>94794143
oh my god my dude, no where do I even say that was the point or you just dont get it. I literally explain to the guy the parts he missed that informed what Batman was killing instead of saying "you just dont get it"


you ARE fucking insane--you are now making up things I never even said.

>>94794108
It only picked up momentum up to the Capitol bombing scene and their fight itself. But the pacing was horrible, causing it lose that momentum.

>>94794158
because you asked if there would be a fan edit when it already exists and its offical. You are a retard because you couldnt be bothered to fucking google or think critically or even be even slightly aware of the fact that the extended cut is out.

>>94794215
I disagree entirely.

It opens by thrusting you into the battle of metropolis from a whole new perspective--unrelenting and borderline heartbreaking. And then it gives us some nice Superman heroics while also letting the after effects of the battle breath and exist. It doesnt just TELL us what the after effects were and how it messed with people, but it shows us. From multiple perspectives. And it steadily builds and builds and builds until the capitol bombing which pops the cork out of the bottle and lets all the emotion and tension that had been building up that point flow out in dreams, crazed philisophical decrees, and actual fighting.

>>94794143
>I refuse to believe anyone thinks BvS has dialogue on the level of My Dinner With Andre.


And this is how I know you're a pleb. One of the big points of MDwA is that they speak like normal people. If you think that the dialogue was in anyway meant to be elivated or seen as a shining example then you completely missed the point. In fact its largerly based on real conversations had between the actors and director. Its trying to capture those very plain but engaging (and sometimes high concept) conversations we sometimes have in our lives that are just kind of magical without having to try very hard.

>>94794159
>its like you retards dont even watch these movies. Snyder's Superman is one of the most easy going when it comes to making friends.

He literally has less lines in the entire BvS movie than Spider-Man in Civil War. How many? 42 lines if I remember correctly, counting "AAAARGH"

>>94794158
>only fanboys use google to get information!!


HOLY SHIT, can you retards get any more stupid?

>>94794347
again you bring up completely irrelevant information as if it somehow proves a point. In no way does the amount of lines he has impact how easily he trusts people. Why do you think this is related in anyway?

>>94794344
>conversations we sometimes have in our lives that are just kind of magical without having to try very hard.

And this is the problem with BvS dialogue. Nothing is natural, they don't talk like people, they go on random monologues while other people just stand on the side, and them the scene ends.

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You know a movie caed Batman V Superman is fucked when the actual confrontation between Batman and Superman is the worst part of it.

Nah, I'm not being fair, that's not the actual worst part of it.

>>94793627
They deliberately showed how violent Batman is in that dream future. While he is ruthless in the movie, in the dream he's outright shooting people with guns, something that should be against his character. But apparently the only thing Bruce is scared about after seeing that dream is Superman and not who he himself will become.
The brand subplot was to make Clark angry at Batman, but it ultimately went nowhere as Luthor forced him to fight anyway.
Bruce stole kryptonite after his own mentally unstable employee committed a terror act. I understand the plot, but it wasn't done well by any means.

>>94794357
>IP doesn't add up

Why you keep coming INSANEfag?

>>94794406
>jimmy olsen is introduced to get shot and murdered on screen
>this is the movie we first see darkseid in
>just like how jimmy olsen was where darkseid first appeared in
Snyder is an actual genius.

>>94794159
>He accepts and works with Batman IMMEDIATELY after he almost kills him
Is this your definition of friendship, anon?
Do you have any friends?

>>94794433
That was Steppenwolf.

>>94794297
I assume you are talking about the theater cut here because the sequence is different in the extended one and the pacing is completely off. All that you are saying sound good on paper, but it doesn't play out like that in the movie.

>>94794159
>He trusts and works with WW while knowing nothing about her except that she wanst to help.
>GUYS YOU SEE? SUPERMAN IS VERY FRIENDLY AND CHARISMATIC BECAUSE HE DIDN'T STARTED PUNCHING WW!

He acts the entire movie as an AUTIST.

>>94794405
I disagree. Batman and Luthor go on monologues and that is entirely in character for both of them. No one else does at all. Also when Luthor and Batman DO give monologues no one is standing aside and they are all responded to in some way or move the plot forward. Stop making stuff up that isnt real.

You want some arguments? Here:
Most stories are made of:
-an initial situation which defines the place, the time, the characters...
-a disruptive event/element which ends the initial situation
-what is usually called the conflict where you follow the main characters having to deal with what's happening. (This is not the 3 acts theory, you can have as many acts as you want in this part).
-an other event which ends the conflict (in this kind of movie, it's a final battle).
-a conclusion with a new stable situation.

The disruptive event of BvS happened after 1h and 15 minutes! It's when Batman meets Superman who stop his chase and threatens him.
What happends before is a chore to watch because there's no momentum, the scenes follow one another without any intent (appart from chronology).
You know what the movie wants to tell you there:
-Batman has turn bad, he ressents and is distrustful toward Superman, and tries to get the means to hurt him.
-Superman despite his heroic accomplishments is a disputed figure and he doesn't like it. He's learned about Batman's actions and thinks he's a danger. And he's in love with Lois Lane.
-Lex Luthor has some machination on the way which includes Batman and Superman. And he obviously knows their secret identity.

But the movie is really bad at telling this. Just look at how the movie linked up the gala about books with a montage of Superman saving people (with an elevating music) and journalists/politics and others being critical on tv.
This montage exists because the idea that Superman is a disputed figure despite saving people is important. Especially because you don't really feel the disputed thing in the whole movie.
Beyond the montage not being very good in itself, why is it placed after the gala? What's the director's intent? I don't know. It needed to happen and they thought here was as good a place as any other.

>>94794433
Why the fuck was that Jimmy Olsen moment even there? Why did Snyder have to shit on him to make an easter egg? He could've just made him Clark's friend in his Daily Planet scenes, but no he had to fucking shoot him.

>>94794517
The worst is I'm pretty sure the scenarists and the director didn't even realize that this first confrontation between Batman and Superman was the disrupting event. You have to wait for this event for the movie to gain a bit of momentum, for some smoothness in the sequence of scenes that follows. If they knew, they wouldn't have Superman stops Batman unaware of the fact that he's trying to get the mean to kill him.
In fact, a bettter introduction wouldn't have included any actions from Batman toward hurting Superman. Batman would ressent Superman and be wary of him but continues his cruel justice. It's when Superman stops him following some criminal organisation (because he knows that Batman's brand is a death sentence) and threatens him that Batman would act an start trying to kill Superman. And all thoses scenes would happen after the disrupting event.

>>94794502
>they dingo on monologues except when they go
>Alfred doesn't go on monologues
>Pa Kent doesn't go on monologues
>Luthor alone has at least 2

>>94794545
The actions scenes are mostly bad.
The car chase part and all the damages done and taken by the batmobile are there to show how resistant the vehicule is and contrast with how easily superman destroys it. Except it's so over the top it's ludicrous. I mean, destroying a boat! Seriously? 2 or 3 walls weren't enough? And let's not even talk how you can have Batman comes back to its roots (convinced by Superman's death) after being such a killing machine.
The only hand to hand fight which works is the warehouse fight when he's surrounded. In the dream/alternative futur sequence, the choregraphy is really bad, you can see the guys waiting to be hitted.
The Batman vs Superman fight is just devoid of any choregraphy. Yeah, Batman is good at planning but beyond that... And the end with the montage of past events where the production thought the spectators were so stupid that they needed to see those scenes again to understand what's happening on the screen and in Bruce's mind. And it still doesn't work...
There's nothing really to say about the Doomsday fight, the ugly cgi speak for themselves. And the passage where Batman, Superman and Wonder woman casually talk feels so out of place, you can feel the actor being on set sprouting theirs lines in front of a green background.

The dream sequence is there to show us what would happen in a futur where Superman turned bad (Darseid is there in some manner according to the omega symbol on the ground). And also introduced the Flash trying to warn Bruce. Except it serves no purpose in the movie. It has no impact on what Batman does. They could have Bruce realized something, remembered this dream and stopped himself during his fight with Superman, but hey...

>>94792375
>Marblefags are still this mad BvS was good

>>94794566
Doomsday's very existence isn't motivated. Like Lex make sure that Batman get the means to kill Superman and at the same time create Doomsday? What's the plan if Batman succeded? And what's the plan if Doomsday succeded in killing Superman without dying itself? Because Lex had the kryptonite but decided Batman was better qualified to use it effectivelly. What would he have done against Doomsday?

The prison scene with Batman and Lex is also ludicrous and misplaces in the middle of the funeral (is it supposed to be a flashback, because nothing says so). Also Batman is a magician that can make people disappear at will for some reason...

And last but not least, for a movie where the superheros are so influenced by their parents, why those parents are so shitty?
Batman's father is an idiot who starts a fist fight with a guy with a gun rather than surrender his wallet. He's responsible for what happends to his wife, his kid and himself.
And I'm not very familiar with Superman but is Clark supposed to be a good guy because of the support of his parents or despite their dickiness? His father wasn't a very good guy in MoS but he manages to be worst as a dream in BvS. And his mother telling him to help people or don't because he doesn't owe them anything, is this the new way to say: "I'll support you wathever you do because you're a good person"?

Also, the music just doesn't work. Wonder Woman theme is plainly bad. It's quite interesting to see Hans Zimmer phoning it in while the score for the 3 Nolan's Batman was a big part of the atmopshere of those movies.

>>94794543
Snyder said that people would think that it was fun and unexpected.

>>94794405
I second this. The dialogues between Lois and Clark were especially cringe-worthy to me. That's not how people talk and it didn't show that Supes had a "human" side exactly when does talk like an alien.

>>94794502

>Batman and Luthor go on monologues and that is entirely in character for both of them.

Post-9/11 soundbites and university term papers about cultural societies in the west?

Luthor's characterisation was so disastrously bad that the only working defence of the character was him having a different motivations in every scene and self-defeating plans was THE POINT.

>Him being simultaneously a genius who can plan out years of intricate nonsense and being so arrogant and autistic that he can't function in conversations and leaves jars of piss as a troll move was ALL INTENTIONAL, SNYDER IS TRULY PLAYING 4D CHESS

If any of the MCU villains were written like this you faggots would shred them to pieces with a goddamn chainsaw for how badly they'd be characterised.

>>94794423
>But apparently the only thing Bruce is scared about after seeing that dream is Superman and not who he himself will become.

I dont understand how you can be this dumb to think he literally thought it was a dream of the future. He has no reason to seriously believe that. Sure a part of him might think that, but, again, from his perspective its all just a manifsation of what he fears Superman will become and what he fears he will do to stop him. He has no reason to be like "oh man im gunna be such a bad guy in the future!" like you are implying. The fact that you THINK he should act this way shows that you interact with the plot on this very literal level that is a disservice to the movie.


>The brand subplot was to make Clark angry at Batman


Yes, it served to add to Clark's fears but it ALSO added to Batman's idea of himself. He is already a killer in the eyes of the public, so what kind of image/symbol is he trying to protect?


>but it ultimately went nowhere as Luthor forced him to fight anyway.

Thats not true, it directly leads to what Lex wanted--Superman having that overreactive first encounter with Batman where he destroys his car. Because Superman thinks Batman is a killer and Batman just proved him right by being that desperate to get the kryptonite. This makes Batman hate Superman even more and furthers the alien image he has of him. It didnt go nowhere.


>Bruce stole kryptonite after his own mentally unstable employee committed a terror act.


From Bruce's perspective, Superman's very presence turned a model employee into a crazed terrorist. And you are forgetting the whole angle of Batman projecting his own failures onto Superman (if Batman himself can fall and not stay good, whats to stop Superman from doing the same thing?). The returned checks he got (also engineered by Luthor) makes him project even more of his failings (this time to his employee) onto superman.

>>94794606
Jesus, who would find that fun? Only fans would notice the easter egg and would never find it fun, unless they hate Jimmy. It's like it was made for people to make articles later.

>>94794428
are you implying that you know exactly which posts belong to which IP?

>>94794453
Batman trying to kill Superman in no way detracts from how easy going Superman is in relation to making friends/trusting people. If anything it just means Batman is a shitty person and Superman is an even better friend for looking past that.

>>94794387
>In no way does the amount of lines he has impact how easily he trusts people
If he's so easy to trust then why the fuck didn't he bother giving an interview explaining what his reasons were? No attempt towards public appeasement? He doesn't realize transparency of cause will make it easier to help people?

Oh wait, he doesn't help people, he saves them. Right, that's what makes Superman great, is all the feats of saving people, and not the fact that the same guy will just as easily help cats out of trees.

Yes, it's a muh Supes argument. We didn't get fucking Superman in a Superman film, fuck off.

Why do Kryptonians have such shitty security? Lex just sliced Zod's fingertips off and got access to the ship and everything. It's such a small detail, but it really frustrated me.

>>94794486
I'm talking about the extended cut and it does play out like that in the movie. Good job not actually having any evidence to back up your opinion other than "WELL ITS JUST NOT LIKE THAT BECAUSE I SAY SO"


Also the sequence is not different in either cut and the pacing isnt completely off.

>>94794490
No he doesnt. Your post is shit my dude. No only do you do the worst kind of bullshit by only highlighting a SINGLE point instead of engaging with the entire post (which completely kills any creditability you thought your post had), but you dont even know what autism means.

>>94794731
It's not how friendship works anon. What you are talking about is acceptance. The movie didn't show an easy-going Superman, Cavil wasn't told to play and easy-going Superman. Supes just accepted that Batman was on his side now and he accepted that WW was with them. There was no warmth or comradeship there.

>>94794666
what the fuck are you even saying? No on in the movie talks about 9/11 or western society really. Luthor just compares Superman to gods and use biblical references to illustrate his point. And he has the same motivation he always has: he hates Superman and wants to prove he isnt the all good, all powerful person everyone thinks he is. No where does he ever imply a different motivation.


And he functions perfectly well in every conversation except for the speech he gives at the fundraiser--which I thought was a great touch. He is the only one who knows that Superman and Batman are there and he is so fucking gitty about his plan working and he hates Superman so much he cant even keep up his whole book raising shtick.


Otherwise, Luthor basically dominates every conversation he is in--to the point where he gets Superman to bow to him.


And Luthor leaving the piss bottle was perfectly in character. Its a callback to his opponent's (in this case the Senator) own statement that she used as a diss against Luthor. Its right in line with comic moments like Luthor offering that woman money to sleep with him and then leaving before she even answers.


But immature people like you just see pee on screen (and to be honest it probably wasnt even pee), and chimp out because OMG THEY PUT PEE IN A MOVIE!!!

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>>94794565
alfred doesnt go on a monologue. He says one thing about why Bruce is angry (pic related) but its so short that it cant be counted as a monologue.


Also Pa Kent doesnt really go on a monologue since Clark asks him questions and talks to him throughout it. Maybe you can count it as one, but again thats IN character for him.


If you are going to complain about Luthor, Batman, and Pa Kent making monologues then never read the comics because youll be complaining every other issue.

>>94794607
There is nothing cringe worthy about them. Its like youve never been in love before or comforted your significant other in a time of great need.

>>94794696
There are 16 IPs here, and you are the only one unironicaly defending this turd.

>>94794860
stop doing this, I never said he WAS easy-going, I said he was easy-going ABOUT MAKING FRIENDS which is entierly different. One describes Superman the other describes a specific facet of him. Don't be intentionally stupid.


And Superman trusts Batman and WW pretty much immediately as he does Ross when they reach out the hand to let him. He also trusts the general and Lois basically immediately. Friendship isnt really about warmth at its core, its about trust. Ive fought with friends and still considered them friends. I've been mad at friends and still considered them friends. I dont need them to always feel warm, I need to trust them. And trust is the foundation of any friendship. I never ever said they were friends immediately out of the gate, I said Superman was willing to trust them.


Dont strawman my argument to something it wasnt just because you cant actually argue with what was said.

>>94795090
so you are implying that you know exactly which posts belong to which IP?

>>94794767
Then here's my evidence.
>Wayne's get killed for a hundredth time
>Metropolis scene
>Bruce races through the city like it's some action movie shit
>Brooding Bruce hugging a girl whose mom just fucking died
>Fishing for Kryptonite scene
>A fucking slog of a scene in Africa
>10 minutes feel like they are from another movie
And on it goes. I could go on, but there is no way you could call this pacing good. Superman's heroics happen much later. Dream sequence happens before the bombing and is way too long and literal. All "emotion and tension" goes nowhere, because Luthor's plan is stupid at that point, all that death and destruction is ultimately pointless.

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Why was Bats going out of his way to murder everyone in sight? I'm sure he has less lethal methods to get rid of goons not directly in his way.

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>>94794753
>If he's so easy to trust then why the fuck didn't he bother giving an interview explaining what his reasons were?

What? Thats the very first thing he does in MoS though.


> No attempt towards public appeasement? He doesn't realize transparency of cause will make it easier to help people?


But he did, that was the very first thing he does in MoS is hand himself over to the military. And in BvS we SEE him go to the Senate to explain himself.


Did you even watch the movie?
> not the fact that the same guy will just as easily help cats out of trees.

Dude, look at pic related. Superman went into the forest and fed a homeless guy. And Reeves Superman didnt save any cats or do any small time saving--he basically onlt did big shit. This Superman is seen helping give relief during disasters and terror strikes. This Superman does things like save capsized boats. What more do you want? Are you mad that they literally didnt show him saving a cat?

Well it just wasn't good, the movie relied on both characters being so far removed from what makes them Batman and Superman that it would have been better labeled as Ultraman vs Owlman. Lex's entire bit for the movie was to be one giant plot device that would provide both of the major conflicts, and the idea that everyone knew who superman was before Batman could figure it out is just baffling. And the advertising for the movie completely ruined it by spoiling Doomsday and Wonder Woman. We had to see the death of the Waynes AGAIN just so it could set up the shitty Martha line which was so bad it turned the whole movie into a mockery and a meme.

The upside is that the action was good, but that was all, the movie is worth a very generous 3/10

>>94794762
its as much security as your iphone, and the kryptonians also added the house key thing as well. I mean its kind of hard to make security that is meant to outlast your entire species.

>>94795065
I don't really think you have either, dude.

No offense.

>>94795159
dude the Africa scene was Superman heroics. He saves Lois from a terrorist breaching the geneva convention. It was a classic Superman saving Lois from being in over her head moment.


And you are just listing scenes that you didnt like for no real reason other than you didnt like it. Of course Bruce would have aciton hero like reflexes in a disaster situation--thats exactly what Batman is. And Bruce isnt even brooding at that point, he is shocked at fucking aliens destroying metropolis--and you have a problem with him protecting a child? Really?


In no way are you actually saying how this is bad pacing other than "LOOK ITS BAD BECAUSE IT IS OKAY!"

Come on my dude.

>>94795065
>The women that I love could've been killed
>Btw I didn't kill those people Lois
>Superman was never real Lois
>You are my world
That last line is the only time when Supes genuinely smiled in the whole movie, which I liked, but it's not a good line.

>>94795298
actually I have, and I've said things to my gf of 4 years in the vein of "you are my world." Yes its corny, but being in love makes you do corny ass things. I dont know anyone in a long term relationship who hasnt said or done corny stuff like that.


Nice non-argument you got there, and I'm glad you can at least admit you've never been in love.

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>>94795353
>>You are my world...

>>94795133
When I said easy going I meant it in the context that you used it in as in "easy going about making friends".
Trust isn't the same as friendship. He trusts Bruce because he needs him to save his mom, he trusts WW because they are about to fight some alien monster. He shares like a second of screen time with her anyway, they are not friends.There are many things that make people seem friendly and Supes showed none of them. Look at how they interact at the end of Kingdom Come or in JLA cartoons.

>>94795227
> characters being so far removed from what makes them Batman and Superman

Not at all. The movie keeps telling you that Batman killing (like he has in every other film he has been in) is wrong and bad. Its a reconstruction of the character in cinema.

and Superman's whole thing is struggling to give people hope when the world/life seems hopeless. Its like you dont even read comics. Superman saving Batman from himself is no different than him saving someone from killing themselves in so far as how it relates to what makes Superman Superman.


>Lex's entire bit for the movie was to be one giant plot device

Not really, he had his own motivation and plan going where you could see how he exists in that world outside of Superman and Batman.

>>94795227
>the shitty Martha line


It's not just any single word, there's a larger context in the works that you can't reduce to an isolated word. Everything about Batman's arc, where he is spiraling to the darkness has been building up to this moment. Out of the blue, he hears the name of his dead mother, of whose murder he dreams about every night to this day. And as such it triggers his childhood PTSD. And it doesn't just magically make him like Superman, it simply throws him off his game. He can't understand why Superman would mention his mother's name. And so he stops, and starts demanding for Clark to explain himself. His urge to murder has shifted to rage and confusion since he can't no longer understand the situation. It's only Lois' intervention that diffuses the situation when she explains Clark was begging him to save his mother even as he was about to die and that is what breaks the camels back, by making Bruce finally see Superman as a person for the first time. A man very similar to himself, rather than a strange otherworldly alien being he couldn't understand but could easily hate and conveniently project all his fears into. And that is why he can't kill him. Because all his blinding hatred, self-deception and lies have been stripped away, and he has to face the ugly truth: he was going to murder a man simply out of pure fear. He was going to be the very thing he has spent his whole life fighting against.

>>94795212
Because he is old and edgy and Snyder liked DKR.

If you need a directors cut version to 'fix' your movie and make it watchable; your movie sucks

>>94795464
again, I never said they were friends. Just that Superman is easy going when it comes to making them. Which is portrayed in how easily he trusts Batman and WW. I never ever said they were friends, but are you really so dim you cant see how someone who easily trusts also easily makes friends?

And we know he is friends with Pete and Lana because they come to Clark's funeral at the end of BvS.

>>94795508
So they should recast for a younger Bats after Flashpoint?

>>94795464
>he is easy going when it comes to trusting people but THAT DOESNT MEAN HE IS EASY GOING ABOUT MAKING FRIENDS AT ALL NOPE, THEY ARE COMPLETELY UNRELATED!

Is this really your argument?

>>94795510
>its the director's fault the studio edited the movie to not reflect his vision

I hope you never see Kingdom of Heaven because you wont even know what to make of it.

>>94795320
>LOOK ITS BAD BECAUSE IT IS OKAY!
Stop using this one argument everywhere. You are the one evoking it anyway.
I list those scenes because that's how they go in the movie, not just because I didn't like them. If you are going to show emotional turmoil of people in a city under an alien attack don't devote a huge chunk of that time showing Bruce doing stunts. It's just bad tone.

>>94795491
Honestly, who calls their mother, adopted or not, by their first name? I was orphaned as a baby and have never called my adopted mother by her first name. This makes that whole line, the whole moment, just fall apart. You'd expect the conclusion to Batman and Superman fighting would end on a very profound note, instead we had to get a forced line to snap Batman out of his hypocrisy.

I don't think we're going to agree here, but I found the first on screen meeting of the World's Finest to be really disappointing.

>>94795618
yes all you did was list scenes without in anyway explaining how or why its bad pacing.


>If you are going to show emotional turmoil of people in a city under an alien attack don't devote a huge chunk of that time showing Bruce doing stunts. It's just bad tone.


so now your argument has changed from pacing to tone? Interesting, it sure doesnt seem like backpeddling at all.


And a huge chunk of time is not devoted to him doing stunts. There is like a single scene of him doing some Batman tier driving and then he does the normal human tier "stunt" of pushing a girl out of the way of falling cement. Thats it. And it is in no way a "bad tone" to show these actions. It illustrates how helpless Bruce is in this situation. That despite all his Bat-training he cant do shit to stop whats happening.

>>94795320
Also that scene in Africa didn't just show Superman saving Lois, it was extremely drawn-out and off-tone.
Btw classic Superman would've said the people in the village, before they were all shot and burned, not just Lois. Plot convince is the only reason why he didn't come sooner.

>>94795689
He calls her Martha because Batman JUST IMPLIED (not even 10 minutes ago) he thinks of Superman's parents as ALIENS. And even if Superman said "save my mom" and Batman didnt think they were aliens, he wouldnt even know where to start! Who the fuck is his mom?


Superman is a smart man, he knows that Batman wants to save humans, he knows that if he gives him that name he can use his Bat-shit to find a woman named Martha who is in danger.


Come on man, just think for a second. Clark was able to.

>>94795689
> instead we had to get a forced line to snap Batman out of his hypocrisy.

But thats not what happens, read the post you are replying to.


>And it doesn't just magically make him like Superman, it simply throws him off his game. He can't understand why Superman would mention his mother's name. And so he stops, and starts demanding for Clark to explain himself. His urge to murder has shifted to rage and confusion since he can't no longer understand the situation. It's only Lois' intervention that diffuses the situation when she explains Clark was begging him to save his mother even as he was about to die and that is what breaks the camels back, by making Bruce finally see Superman as a person for the first time.


Goddamn dude, you cant even read the posts you are replying to?

>>94795221
Oh right the interview that apparently never mattered since people were continuously wondering in BvS what his fucking motive was.

As far as the public is concerned, even if Supes handed himself over, Zod fucked the world.

He goes to the Senate only after he's created countless situations where his intervention was questionable, with some orchestrated by Lex.

>What more do you want?
I want a fucking Superman that makes an attempt to fucking talk to people to de-escalate situations rather than threaten them outright. I want a fucking Superman who's an actual symbol of hope and not just a fucking savior figure. I want the Man of Tomorrow who inspires people without needing to fucking die to remind them how cool he was. Superman fucking talks to people. He lets them know he's on their side and wants to do good. He doesn't float ominously saving people from tragedy in depressing montages. He doesn't allow situations like his Pa's death to occur when he has the option to save it. Fact of the matter is, Superman shouldn't give a fuck about protecting his secret if the alternative in the situation is people dying. His acts shouldn't be boiled down to montages and newspaper clippings where you can't read more than three before the fucking scene changes and certainly not funneled into the story to give some kind of mixed feelings on him. Superman's a fucking icon of hope and MoS and BvS make him look just as grim as the world around him. Cavill is a fantastic actor given shit to work with, and is wasted on this fucking trash.

>>94795716
> it was extremely drawn-out

It really wasnt.
>off-tone

that doesnt mean anything. off-tone compared to what? The tone you thought the scene should have? You are literally saying nothing with this comment.
>Btw classic Superman would've said the people in the village, before they were all shot and burned, not just Lois. Plot convince is the only reason why he didn't come sooner.

Which classic Superman? The one in your head? Because no classic version of Superman would ever interfere in a purely human military conflict (except for WW2). Kingdom Come, New Frontier and Peace on Earth make a point to show exactly why Superman doesnt interfere with human politics and wars like that.


And the only people in the village who were killed were militants. From Superman's perspective its a normal war between armies of man until Lois is taken hostage--then it violates the geneva convention and becomes a Superman problem.


Come on, you gotta have a better argument than that.

>>94795571
Again, you said that he's easy-going about making friends, not me. I argued with that. And while he trusted people in the circumstances he was in, it's not the same as being friendly, or being "easy-going about making friends". The way Cavil acted and the way those scenes were shot and edited didn't portray him like that.

>>94795749
>Oh right the interview that apparently never mattered since people were continuously wondering in BvS what his fucking motive was.

Yeah exactly, the entire point is that all the interviews in the world dont matter because people make up their minds regardless of what Superman says. Like there are people who still believe the moon landings were fake despite all the evidence to the contrary. People still think Obama is a crazy muslim terrorist no matter how many interviews he gives.
>As far as the public is concerned, even if Supes handed himself over, Zod fucked the world.

EXACTLY, thats why there is such a split on opinions. People dont just hear one interview and make up their minds.

>He goes to the Senate only after he's created countless situations where his intervention was questionable, with some orchestrated by Lex.


No he doesnt. He goes to Senate after a single situation that was engineered by lex and built on lies.
>I want a fucking Superman that makes an attempt to fucking talk to people to de-escalate situations rather than threaten them outright.

But he does do that. The first thing he does is talk to the US military in MoS and try to talk to Zod. He even tries to talk to Batman on their second meeting (though he fucked up the first time, but that was due to a number of factors).


> I want the Man of Tomorrow who inspires people without needing to fucking die to remind them how cool he was.

But the same thing happens in the comics. Batman even calls him out for it one time, saying that the last time he ever inspired anyone was when he died. And I dont know if you were paying attention (you obviously werent) but half the world was super inspired by Superman--some to the point where they thought of him as a god.
> Superman fucking talks to people. He lets them know he's on their side and wants to do good

Yeah thats why he went to the senate hearing and gave that interview when he first made contact with the us military.

>>94795541
Jesus the original comment was about Snyder hating the idea of friendship. There were no instances in the movie where Superman was friendly. Trusting? Yeah, but that's not all there is to friendship.
Showing Pete and Lana at his fucking funeral isn't the same as showing Clark interact with them.

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>>94795749
>He doesn't float ominously saving people from tragedy in depressing montages

it wasnt depressing at all, he was just sad in that one particular moment because people praised him like a god. He doesnt want to be a god.


>He doesn't allow situations like his Pa's death to occur when he has the option to save it.

Literally the point of that scene is that he fucks up and doubts himself and his ability to save his dad. His fuck up haunts him and motivates him to go out into the world and try to save people. Much like how Pa Kent died in the Reeves movie (only that was even worse because he didnt even have the excuse of Pa Kent telling him not to help, he just doesnt do shit).


>Fact of the matter is, Superman shouldn't give a fuck about protecting his secret if the alternative in the situation is people dying.

He doesnt, never does this Superman put his secret above saving people. Pa does, and evne then its only his own life he puts in danger to protect his son. No one else's

>inb4 "maybe"
>His acts shouldn't be boiled down to montages and newspaper clippings where you can't read more than three before the fucking scene changes and certainly not funneled into the story to give some kind of mixed feelings on him.

I never had mixed feelings of him. And he does more individual acts of saving people in BvS and MoS individually than he does in the first Reeves movie. And its not just montages, there are scenes of him just saving people as clark too.
>Superman's a fucking icon of hope and MoS and BvS make him look just as grim as the world around him

It really, really didnt.

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>>94795749
> Superman's a fucking icon of hope and MoS and BvS make him look just as grim as the world around him.

Not in the slightest my dude.

>>94795865
I wasnt even the guy you were arguing with, your argument is just dumb. You somehow think that being easy trusting people means you arent easy when it comes to making friends?

>>94795726
>>94795739
The anon you are replying to argues that the line and execution was awkward. There is no amount of reading into the "larger context" that would fix that.
Superman screeched "He's going to kill Martha" and "save Martha". Nobody would say it like that.
This anon >>94795726 implies that Bruce wouldn't give a fuck if he said "save my mom", which is weird. If Supe's mom's name wasn't the same as Batman's would he just fucking kill him?

>>94796031
Yeah it kinda got mangled up. What I meant is that Superman was easy to trust people, because of the circumstances he was put in. I think the movie didn't show Supes being friendly, warm towards people, except for Lois.
The original point of contention was this post
>>94793826
And having just seen the movie that was the same impression that I had.

>>94795916
>He even tries to talk to Batman on their second meeting (though he fucked up the first time, but that was due to a number of factors).
He just threatened Batman the first time, not even attempting to understand him.
>The Bat is dead
>Flies away
The second time he started talking, but then after Batmans (ineffective attack), he escalated by pushing and throwing him around. He could've tried explaining it all again, but it wasn't convenient to the plot.

>Stay down, if I wanted it you'd be dead already.
That's not something you say to deescalate.

>>94795821
Whole Jimmy Olsen easter egg was pointless and ugly, if you are a fan of him. CIA stuff was pointless.
And there is nothing in the movie to indicate that Superman chose not to interfere when they were shooting villagers, he just arrived when he did, because it was convenient plot-wise.

I guess people want to be contrarian.

I mean, these are the people who want to praise Snyder/Goyer up to being geniuses for simply not understanding the motivation/philosophy of the characters they are dealing with. On top of that they are so arrogant to force their own ideology in there as a way of putting their "touch" on the characters. While really just changing the characters to fit their narratives they want to tell.

It's rather obvious. Superman pushed into a more objectivist direction, Snyder happens to be a objectivist. Lot's of unnecessary Christian connections, Snyder happens to be Christian. Batman killing people and using guns, Snyder completely not understanding what Batman's ideology.

Now I'm not saying you can't change the characters up a bit to blow new live into them, but to completely self-inject yourself in these characters is very very pretentious. Snyder comes off as a complete idiot and it's quite an insult to the original origins of these characters to have someone shit all over them, telling the audience that "it's not realistic", telling the audience "2 men talking in full costume is not realistic and silly".

Beh, I'm sure some fan of snyder will go try to break this down and have some snarky thing to say. The reality is, Batman shouldn't have gunned down people, and Superman should not have objectivist role models.

>>94792467
This. I think that just about covers it. Don't forget that a lot of people just straight up have bad taste.

>>94796121
>implies that Bruce wouldn't give a fuck if he said "save my mom", which is weird. If Supe's mom's name wasn't the same as Batman's would he just fucking kill him?

its that his mom is human and has a human name, Batman doesnt think his mom is human or that he has any human connections. The guy falt out says this. How do you miss the point this hard? You take it way too literally

>>94796420
>He just threatened Batman the first time,

yeah I say that right here >(though he fucked up the first time, but that was due to a number of factors)
>he escalated by pushing and throwing him around

and he told him to listen to him, but yes this was the wrong approach but he did it due to the same reasons he fucked up the first time. He was told by the citizens of gotham that Batman had changed and would only listen to violence and thinks he is a killer because of Lex and Batman's own manslaughtering.

>>94796589
>And there is nothing in the movie to indicate that Superman chose not to interfere when they were shooting villagers, he just arrived when he did, because it was convenient plot-wise.


He arrived the second Lois was in danger and Superman has ALWAYS stayed out of human on human normal warfare. It shouldnt need to be spelled out for you if you have two brain cells and are at all familiar with Superman as a character.

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The movie had everything you wanted to see, but was done in the worst possible way. Not entertaining. Story was nonsensical. Anons above me have analyzed it way better than me.

Although, if they kept their original idea of Brainiac being in the story instead of Doomsday, being behind the scenes of all the nonsensical Lex behavior and Batman visions. It might actually have been redeemed in my book.

Instead its just Batman being an asshole all movie and Lex being an idiot the whole movie.

>>94796974
Snyder is in no way an objectivist. He has tons of adopted kids and is by all accounts a really nice guy that is always helping people out and giving people roles. Thats like the opposite of objectivism my dude.


Also your casual is showing super hard in this post. Everything from thinking there is a "one true" version of these characters to your complete lack of undertanding of objectivism and Superman and Batman for that matter.

>Batman shouldn't have gunned down people,
The movie agrees with you, its commenting on all those other movies that came out and had Batman killing people without any consequences.

>>94797484
>>94797515
>>94797532
I like how in all those replies you just can't miss an opportunity to insult my intelligence or infer that I'm misunderstanding the movie.
Explaining the Martha line doesn't make it less awkward. Script writer just wanted to force the fact that both characters mother's were named Martha.
Again, the fact that you can explain the meaning behind a bad scene in a movie, doesn't make it good. Yes Superman had reasons to think that Batman is crazy and violent, but the only reason why he pushed him and escalated, instead of trying to talk to him, is plot.
>Stay down, if I wanted it you'd be dead already
This line shows a fundamental misunderstanding of Supermans character.

The movie had too many references. It's wonderful on /co/ because we understood all of them, but for the average movie goer, it's just a bunch of random scenes that made no fucking sense.

That and Martha was pretty stupid. Superman should have won and spared Batman to prove to Bats that he's human and not out to kill everyone.

>>94796011
>>94796021
You're trying to use a collection of actions of saving people to justify him as hopeful when nothing of his personality, demeanor and tone bring that forth at ALL. The entire tone of these movies is dour and depressing.

>>94795916
>But the same thing happens in the comics
And it's bullshit writing then too, Zack adapts surface level imagery while fundamentally misunderstanding the context and meaning behind it and it's no different here.

>>94797582
>The movie agrees with you, its commenting on all those other movies that came out and had Batman killing people without any consequences.
Fuck your commentary, make a good example yourself. Don't just put the wrong foot forward and say it was intentional to show how it'll get better. Make it fucking right the first time.

>>94797484
Man, just imagine if the world's greatest detective decided to investigate Superman in order to figure out a possible psychological weakness, the whole movie's paper thin plot would have just fallen away and we would have gotten a moment like
>Bruce, please, I need your help, he has my mother, he says he'll kill her if I don't kill you.
>I know Clark, she's nearby, we can get her back, but we'll need to play his game, put on a show.
>You...know who I am?
>Of course, I've always known, now let's start.
>Thank you.
>Thank me after we have her, now, hit me farm boy, make it look good
We were robbed World's Finest for a butchered mash up of DKR and DoS. BVS was garbage mate

>>94798273
>Thank me after we have her, now, hit me farm boy, make it look good
kek

>>94792375
Because people genuinely like it. Horrible isn't it, meeting people with different opinions.

>>94799011
>Because people genuinely like it.
SOME people genuinely liked it. And that small amount of people couldn't accept that they are a minority and needed to complain on /co/ on a daily basis. There are people who genuinely like Thor 2, but you don't see them complaining every day on why no one else see it as a masterpiece as they do.

Remember how people always whine about how you should show, not tell in storytelling? BvS actually does that, letting you understand the story through visual storytelling and now people cry about how it doesn't spoonfeed you every plot development and detail.

>>94792397
>Batfags are the most delusional fanbase on the planet

More like zackfags

>>94799853
They literally showed the ally scene like 4 times.

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>>94799853
More like make an MC that barely talks while he should be famous for his charisma. and for making autists use their headcanon to try to rationalize bad direction and writting.

Also, the character tell out loud their motivations all the time, it is full of monologues.

>>94799725
>And that small amount of people couldn't accept that they are a minority and needed to complain on /co/ on a daily basis

The ones making most of the complaining are the ones whining about some people dare to openly like it. Most pro-BvS threads start with either "why is this so hated" or "well, I liked it" which isn't exactly complaining, unless you're triggered by someone having the opposite opinion.

Also worth noting is that folks who are against the movie are the ones usually painting the opposition as literally insane or at the very mentally deluded fools who need to be beaten into accepting that they are wrong.

>>94801351
>The ones making most of the complaining are the ones whining about some people dare to openly like it.
Only Snyder fans try to argue that they are intellectually superior to other people. And the result is backlash, justifiably so. If you like something other people don't like, you have no right to say other people are stupid. Your narrative is that the Snyder fans are smarter people, and the result is you get made fun off. Your choice, your punishment.

>>94801610

You're projecting pretty hard there, partner. Remember to breath once in a while.

>>94792375
You are either a woman, brown-skinned or have a low IQ. Possibly all three. Your opinion is worthless and irrelevant.

>>94800035
The Robocop-Jesus analogy is pretty strong in the original.

But yeah, Snyder would have crammed a church scene in to hammer the point home.

>>94794423
>The brand subplot was to make Clark angry at Batman, but it ultimately went nowhere as Luthor forced him to fight anyway.

Yeah, because Superman wasn't as easy to manipulate, like Batman was, who let his emotions cloud his judgement.

>>94794566
>And let's not even talk how you can have Batman comes back to its roots (convinced by Superman's death) after being such a killing machine.

So you don't think redemption is possible? Sad.

>>94794597
>What's the plan if Batman succeded? [sic]
Doesn't matter in context to the story. The goal was to either kill Superman or make him bow down to Luthor by killing Batman.
>What would he have done against Doomsday?
Something else. He didn't expect to not be able to control it. which is classic Luthor hubris.

>>94794694
I did. It was unexpected and shocking but I agree with Snyder's idea was a good one. And I say that as a guy likes Jimmy and wishes he would actually matter in comics. But he doesn't and really hasn't since the 90s, when he actually had ongoing storylines. Now he's just brought up occasionally for strictly nostalgia reasons to go "hey remember Jimmy?" and then forgotten about again. How many issues of Superdad have we had since Rebirth started where it's just about his family, or Batman and his family interacting with Super-family, instead of interacting with his old friends like Jimmy? It's pretty strange that even Lana Lang has had more prominence as Superwoman to Clark than his supposed BEST FRIEND.

>>94792375
not enough quips or quirky talking animals/sentient objects for your enjoyment?

>>94794159
Those aren't his friends he knows them from work.

>people are STILL vehemently defending BvS

At first I thought this was a "epic kino" meme but it's clear you people actually like the movie

>>94802694
Same. I think DCEUfags replying to multiple complaints is becoming a meme at this point.

>>94792397
>Batfags
Actually, it's mostly just Snyder fags and some Superfags that need to defend every single thing where the character shows up due to their inferiority complex.
Batfags are usually ok with Affleck but hate what Snyder did with the character.

>>94792588
>I like the idea of a more violent Bruce
I'm ok with that, not with him being a fucking cowardly hipocryte about it, like with the dozens of people he branded so they'd get brutalized in prison.
I guess none of them had a mother, at least not one called Martha.

>>94803181
>Batfags are usually ok with Affleck but hate what Snyder did with the character.

And thus completely misunderstand what BvS did with Batman.

>>94803204
>Batman being a hypocrite

'cause that's NEVER happened before.

>>94793627
>By ANY actual metric the majority of the people who saw it liked it.
Is that why people didn't go to re-watch it nor recommended it to anyone else and it dropped so hard that it made 50% of it's box office on its opening weekend?

>>94794159
>Snyder's Superman is one of the most easy going when it comes to making friends.
In MoS he was doubting about outing himself so Zod wouldn't destroy the world because he didn't trust mankind. He needed some surrogate father figure to tell him to stop being a faggot for once in his life.

>>94803224
Not with the blatant cowardice it happens in BvS. He has absolutely no redeeming qualities whatsoever until he decides to become Superman's buddy all of a sudden.

>>94803205
It turned it into a murdering hypocrite. I think it was Snyder who didn't understand what he was doing, as proven by the movie being total dogshit.

BvS was really disappointing to me because I could see there was a terrific big idea that was utterly ruined in execution. It needed to be three different movies, and Snyder needs to be shackled to a detail-oriented partner.

My favorite part is when NotDoomsday explodes in a gigantic nova and Batman dives underneath a piece of concrete, Wonder Woman uses her shield, and Supes does nothing with all his powers to realize that since the whole city is being obliterated, Bats might not survive his concrete slab bunker. He does nothing to move to help him. Somehow despite half of a city being obliterated, Batman survives.

This could have helped with characterization in many ways, but whatever, Batman knows his structural compositions, especially against brand new resurrected Kryptonian monsters.

>>94803350
That final scene completely failed in giving Batman something to do as well. You don't set up a climax scene where one of the main players can't do anything but duck and cover.

>>94803382
I always wondered, what happened to his suit?

You make a movie called Batman v Superman, and the climax is about showing off Wonder Woman?

>>94793627
Nice try Snyder.

>>94798053
>without any consequences.
He does face consequences in the Nolan movies. He's actively hunted by the police due to his activities and he's not torturing and causing people's deaths (either directly or indirectly) left and right as he does in BvS, yet I don't recall the police doing anything about it.

>>94803319
>He has absolutely no redeeming qualities whatsoever until he decides to become Superman's buddy all of a sudden

Because it's chance to make things right with Superman. As well as sort of getting a chance to save his own mother through a surrogate.

>>94803331
And it's painted as a bad thing, Batman losing his way until Superman redeems and inspires him to become a proper hero again that he is suppose to be. It is Batman at his lowest point.

>>94793825
>demanding that /co/ stop disliking BvS
This just in, /co/ is contrarian! Next at eleven, water is wet!

>>94803480
I'm sorry but you don't turn one of the heroes of the movie into a shithead for 2 fucking hours. And even less, you try to do a 180 with such a shitty scene like MARTHA and expect everyone to be on board with it.
To me, it was pretty obvious that they shoot a script that was in the middle of re-writes because none of the elements manage to come together and the movie constantly contradicts itself.

>>94802328
>Yeah, because Superman wasn't as easy to manipulate, like Batman was, who let his emotions cloud his judgement.
Just kidnap his mom. You can't say "Superman wasn't easy to manipulate" when the conflict culminates in him being given a point blank ultimatum that he has to capitulate to.
Rephrase. You can't say that without sounding like a memeing idiot.

>>94803529
>I'm sorry but you don't turn one of the heroes of the movie into a shithead for 2 fucking hours.

Why not? Because you don't like it?

>More MARTHA autism

Oh never mind. This is a pointless conversation.

>>94803382
It's why Doomsday was a fucking mistake. The entire point of Doomsday is that he's a threat ONLY Superman can fight and Snyder tried combining that with power of teamwork shit and making Wonder Woman look badass. So you end up with a finale where people are still arguing whether or not Clark even needed to die.

>>94803564
>Why not? Because you don't like it?
Because he's supposed to be one of the heroes of the movie. The only somewhat redeeming action he commits in the first 2/3rds of the movie is saving that little girl at the beginning, everything else is him actually acting like a villain while Superman reluctantly does heroic things with a frown on his face.

And again, maybe you could pull it off, if the payoff is good enough. If there scene where he turns around and realizes his wrongdoings was powerful enough it would've given those 2 hours some meaning, but it isn't. It's just a horribly written shitty idea that just doesn't work. There's a reason why people are still mocking it nowadays.

>>94803587
>So you end up with a finale where people are still arguing whether or not Clark even needed to die.

But those are retards who insists the entire third act needs to be re-written so that Diana can get the spear instead of being the one keeping Doomsday tied down (as well as occupied when Superman saves Lois and finds the spear) that Superman could spear him to death.

>>94803587
>Wonder Woman look badass.
I'm ok with this, but if you spent over 2 hours making Batman fight Superman, once they become friends you need to have one big scene with them collaborating. Batman does jack shit in the Doomsday scene and you can't really see them trusting each other and working together on screen, which makes Bruce's final speech sound completely forced. I mean, he spent over half of the movie trying to kill that guy and we're supposed to buy that he thinks Superman is the best after only a few minutes of them doing anything together on screen? That's not how movies work.

>>94803529
The Dark Knight Returns turned Superman into a shithead, BvS did the same to Batman, why is one liked and the other isn't?

>>94803694

You're ignoring the fact that Batman spent the entire movie thinking his biased and fearmongering fueled POV of Superman was 100% right. He actively ignored all the good things due to his own fears and cynicism. And then Superman proved he was actually entirely wrong about him. And Bruce starts to respect and admire Superman, who had to go through far worse yet he still managed to come on top. And that's why inspires him to be a better hero and form the Justice League with Diana. Because together you are stronger than when you're divided and alone.

>>94803526
>This just in, /co/ is contrarian! Next at eleven, water is wet!
It's more than contrarian, we don't have Thor 2 defenders, or Green Lantern Movie defenders. If contrarians really argue about everything, they should defend these two films.

But no, we are talking about Snyder fans, who think they are the only people smart enough to like Snyder's films. And they needed to defend Snyder every day of every week.

Normally if you like a film no one else likes, you shrug and move on. But if you need to argue that everyone else needs to like your favourites, you have a problem.

>>94803717
Maybe because one of them was actually well written and the other wasn't.

Also, context. One was an Elseworld that helped bringing a different, more mature sensitivity to mainstream American comics and was meant to be some sort of "Batman's final story".
(Also, Superman, while being a cunt, still acts like Superman. He could've killed Batman at any point but he didn't and Batman knew this because he knew Superman since forever and he knew that no matter how brainwashed he was, he would never kill him. So, Batman was also kind of an asshole there, but also acted like Batman and didn't kill him, nor he ever planned to do it.)
The other was a big budget movie that was supposed to be the first true entry into an extended cinematic universe and it got started by making Batman a fucking murderer, a pussy and a hypocrite who was actually out to murder Superman.

>>94803717
>The Dark Knight Returns turned Superman into a shithead, BvS did the same to Batman, why is one liked and the other isn't?
Because DKR wasn't the introduction to Batman. Because DKR isn't the start of a new Batman mythos, it was the END of it.

>>94803805
>And then Superman proved he was actually entirely wrong about him. And Bruce starts to respect and admire Superman, who had to go through far worse yet he still managed to come on top. And that's why inspires him to be a better hero and form the Justice League with Diana.
Again, none of this is actually shown in the movie. We go from 2 hours of why Batman wants to kill Superman to them being best buds in a matter of minutes. Then, we don't even see them actually working together and building any kind of relationship on screen but we're supposed to buy he's Batman's main inspiration now?
We knew from the first second of the movie that Batman and Superman were going to end up being friends and working together. The writer and director's job was making the journey good enough so we could really enjoy the ride while we were getting to the destination we all knew. They completely failed at this.

>>94803681
The entire lance thing was stupid to begin with and done more for symbolism than anything else, so yeah, critics aren't going to feel bad about insisting that alternatives would be better.

>>94803694
The problem is greater than that. The issue is that they still hadn't sold us on this Superman so when Batman, an already more popular character, shows up and says he's not that great, audiences are more inclined to give him the benefit of the doubt and think that this Superman is kind of shit. The movie raises all these philosophical questions about whether he does more harm than good and then asks us to forget it because of a generic smackdown. Twice.
This is what happens when you forget to give Superman charisma. He's now the weakest link in the Trinity and there's no coming back from it in any way other than memeing and calling anyone that disagrees with the idea that he's great a retard.

>>94803893
Where the fuck are you getting this idea that they're best buds? They're very clearly not, and Batman's essentially just trying to apologize for being a massive asshole over the course of the movie by saving Ma Kent. One quip between the two before fighting does not a friendship make.

The movie's not attempting to make them best buds, it's attempting to show how Superman's actions can change the lives of those around him, for better or worse.

>>94803964
>The entire lance thing was stupid to begin with and done more for symbolism than anything else
Snyder's inconsistent use of religious symbolism is pretty fucking embarrasing, and it constantly fucks up the narrative of the movie.

>>94803964
>This is what happens when you forget to give Superman charisma. He's now the weakest link in the Trinity and there's no coming back from it in any way other than memeing and calling anyone that disagrees with the idea that he's great a retard.
This is why I am willing to accept it if JL just outright pretend the resurrected Superman is a charismatic and optimistic hero who has faith in humanity. And completely disregard the fact that it has no connection with the Superman that was alive previously. Just... Make him the great hero he was suppose to be, and don't waste time explain how he got there.

Retcon everything, have him show up as Clark Kent in the Daily Planet. Don't even TRY to justify BvS.

>>94803893
>Again, none of this is actually shown in the movie.

Yes we do. It's just not blatantly stated, it is inferred, especially in the end in the funeral scene. And they aren't automatically best buds, that was never even implied or meant to be the case, that's your own projection and expectations speaking. Bruce simply begins to respect and admire Clark after his sacrifice against Doomsday and wants to honor him. It is the foundation for their friendship once Clark comes back.

>>94803977
>Where the fuck are you getting this idea that they're best buds?
When they were shown quipping in the battlefield?
When he became Batman's main source of inspiration, even though he was all about killing him during the whole fucking movie?
The "I failed him in life, I won't fail him in death" line comes out as completely forced in the film and doesn't reflect Superman and Batman's relationship as shown in the movie at all.

>>94804034
It's funny how the stuff you believe is inferred but the stuff the people you disagree with is projection and expectation. Like, you really can't see how that logic cuts both ways, can you?

>>94804046
>When they were shown quipping in the battlefield?

You can't be serious.

>>94804046
As I said, a single fucking quip does not a friendship make. Otherwise Cap and Stark would have been best buds in Avengers when they clearly were not.

And are you fucking kidding me? How does "I failed him in life, I won't fail him in death" not indicative of the movie at all? You've just spent the last hour arguing that Batman's been a gigantic asshole to Superman. That sounds like failing him to me, doesn't it to you? Batman realizes that he's been a monumental fuck-up, the fight with Superman forces that issue. Saving Ma Kent was a first step, but seeing Clark put his life down for his fellow man was what put him completely back on the path to redemption. How the fuck is this hard? How is this so goddamn complex that you don't get it?

>>94804034
>Bruce simply begins to respect and admire Clark after his sacrifice against Doomsday and wants to honor him.
Again, it's all an aftertought and never shown in the movie. Not only all the shit he previously thought about Superman suddenly goes away after the Martha scene, but at the end of the movie we're supposed he's Batman's main inspiration? Movies are mostly about showing, not telling, and this film completely fails at doing that. We're supposed to buy shit because there's some shoehorned line of dialogue that's supposed to justify what we're seeing on screen but that's not how filmmaking works. You need to show us Batman and Superman actually building some sort of relationship on screen if you want us to buy into Superman's death mattering to Batman so much, specially since Batman himself was trying to kill Superman throughout almost the whole fucking film.

>>94804081

I can actually back it up. That's what his talk with Diana in the funeral is about, as well as not branding Luthor, even though he could just keep being the brutal monster he had become, to punish an irredeemable asshole nobody would cry over. But he's a better man and simply walks away.

>>94804115
>That sounds like failing him to me, doesn't it to you?
Yes, but it's not internally consistent with the character. He does a 180 on Superman because the plot needed him to do so quickly in order to have the Doomsday fight and set up the Justice League. It's just awfully written and doesn't feel earned at all.

>>94804132
>I can actually back it up.
They can too. They can say the dialogue is about something else. What makes their interpretations invalid but yours the truth other than your own perception and cognitive bias?

>>94804156
No, he did a 180 because that was what the plot was building up to the entire time. All of the shit in the movie is Bruce trying to justify killing Superman to himself, trying to project this threat onto him. All that "Even if there's a 1% chance" shit is literally Bruce trying to weasel his way out of confronting the real problems he's facing, which is that his crime fighting campaign over the last 20 years has largely failed, and he's lost most of the people he cares about, like Robin. Killing Superman is his last ditch effort of "completing" his mission, or at least in his mind, going out doing something worthwhile.

When he gets up to the very edge and has the spear to Superman's throat, he realizes how much he's been bullshitting himself, and the facade starts to fall away.
Batman does a 180 on Superman so quickly because literally every single rationalization he made to try and kill him was bullshit and he knew it.

>>94804227
>shit is literally Bruce trying to weasel his way out of confronting the real problems he's facing, which is that his crime fighting campaign over the last 20 years has largely failed
So we have a Superman who failed to be Superman and a Batman that failed to be Batman.

Is it any wonder that Diana ended up being the only real hero?

>>94804511
Superman didn't fail at shit
He just lived and operated in a universe that was much, much less accepting of him than the regular DCU

>>94804227
The problem is that even if everything you say with Bruce making justifications is true, there's still enough merit in his arguments that "Clark is just good shut up and accept it" is a very unsatisfying way to settle that debate. Especially when Clark himself can barely get a word in edgewise.

>>94804564
>merit in his arguments
Such as?

>>94804538
Yes, but why was it?
A case can be made that the Snyderverse is less accepting of him because of his own actions or lackthereof.
There are reasons why, for example, Jonathan usually dies via a heart attack, or Clark's first act a public figure heroism is to stop a plane from crashing. Why isn't it possible that Superman's negative perception in this world is a result of him failing to win people over?

It's just weird that there's this paradoxical narrative around these movies where Superman is human and he's flawed and makes mistakes but he's also a good boy that didn't fail and never did anything wrong and never created his own problems.

>>94804600
It's less accepting because that's what would be realistic.
The movie is making a commentary on how Superman's actions, no matter how non-political and altruistic they might be, will get politicized endlessly by the various factions that want to use him to their own ends, or otherwise tarnish his image in order to justify measures against him.

>>94804587
That someone with that much power can either go bad himself or be manipulated into going bad. And yeah, while killing him might be extreme, there should absolutely be checks to his power in place and contingency plans made. You can't just say "I trust Superman to be 100% good 1000% of the time"
Going "He'll save the world regardless" is just hollow after we see him get tricked into an unnecessary fight or a potential bad future where he's gone nuts. The movie tries to argue that Bruce saw Clark as an inhuman threat and he was wrong to do that, but Clark being human doesn't mean he's not a threat; humans can be plenty threatening even before having the power to reshape the landscape when they get angry.
Even in the comics, not even Superman trusts Superman as much as this movie asks us to; that's why he gives the Kryptonite ring to Batman.

>>94804636
If it would be more realistic to argue about the merits of Superman's actions then why are you arguing with real people that say that this Superman might have failed in some of his actions? It's like you're saying the movie is right for reflecting a reality that you refuse to acknowledge might have a point.

>>94804647
>That someone with that much power can either go bad himself or be manipulated into going bad
The entire point of Superman is he couldn't be corrupted. By removing that, he is no longer Superman. If that argument is true then there are no superheroes. And people show up to cape films to see Superheroes, not trying to agree with the villains.

>>94804839
As has I have been told repeatedly, this Superman is human and not perfect and makes mistakes. As such, there needs to be ways to stop him from making big mistakes.
And it's laughable to say that he can't be corrupted or manipulated when the entire reason they even have their pointless fight is because he got manipulated into it.
If you don't want me to agree with the villain stop making the hero and the world around him so terrible.

>>94793640
is this dcucks last resource ??

>>94793987
>, and how much money it makes is in no way related to the phrase "the majority of the people who saw it, liked it."
As I kept saying, if you really believe that then you would not be here trying to defend BvS. If you really think most people liked it then you wouldn't need to defend it. The same way no one needed to defend Wonderwoman's film.

>>94799853
While I appreciate show-not-tell the movie is basically a montage of disjointed images "showing" something. I don't have a problem with this movie because didn't understand it's plot, but because it was a mess of a movie overall.

>>94801906
>Remember to breath once in a while
You just did what that anon was talking about.

File: 1411595530664.jpg (364KB, 691x821px) Image search: [Google]

364KB, 691x821px

>>94802328
>Somebody liked seeing Jimmy Olsen get shot
Boy what a fun twist that scene was, huh?

>>94803204
Actually we don't know that Bruce is aware of what happens to them in prison. Again, movie didn't show that. But if he was, that's pretty off-character for him.

>>94802328
>And I say that as a guy likes Jimmy and wishes he would actually matter in comics [sic]

From what I can piece together, Chris Terrio wanted to write some sort of grand conspiracy plot with Lex acting like some sort of mission impossible villain, all while fundamentally misunderstanding both Batman and Superman. In the hands of a bloodthirsty hack like Snyder, it was bound to be a disaster.

>>94792375
I don't want to start a company war but DC fans are basically starved for cinematic universe content so they'll take what they can get and praise it. Marvel fans get movies on a yearly basis, so they can afford to call one movie good and another bad.

Also devout Batman fans, who are consistently the worst superhero fans regardless of where you live.

>>94792375

I jack off to the scenes were Superman gets his ass beat in BvS and Supergirl

>>94793486

Generally I am saying people want video game style action. it's why Fast & The Furious can make a billion dollars and why the Transformers movies can as well.

I'm not saying that's all it takes, obviously Lucy did this well and it had barely a logical plot (although certainly more coherent than either CA-CW or BvS as far as people motivations and why they were fighting, etc.) but it didn't make a billion dollars, not even close.

And yes, you are right. Snyder made 300 and it did have a few deeper themes but it was essentially mind candy and a lot of action. Where it tried to be political and historical, it was laughable. NOT as laughable as say Gods of Egypt or as much of a florid mess as say The Mummy, but still, no one way going to say, you gotta watch 300 for the great drama and dialogue (and Tonight We Dine In Hell is not great dialogue).

And you are also right, the movie was too dark and grim, repeated in BvS.

>>94793627
Other anon called it a slog and grim.
I'm a long time DC fan and I like all sorts of books, games, authors/writers and styles in the DC universe. I've seen nearly all the live action DC material from Moleman Supes and Burton Bats and nearly all the animated stuff. I've read almost all the Elseworlds Bats and Superman stories (and the few Diana ones as well).

The problem with BvS, far more than Man of Steel was tone. But the problem with MoS was also tonal. MoS just managed to succeed more than it failed, whereas the best parts of BvS were, as I said, things like the Warehouse scene, and I don't think anyone is going to say that it represents what people would take away from any one trade or series about Batman, except for perhaps Batman Arkham Knight or similar. Someone who just thinks Batman is a character in a video game - he'd love it and not find it unusual, out of character, tonally inaccurate or incomplete, etc.

>>94792375
terrible bait. yet somehow all these faggots fall for it.

>>94806061
Genuinely not bating m8.
>Or am I?
Am not.

>>94806061
>terrible bait. yet somehow all these faggots fall for it.
We had similar threads for Wonderwoman, about how badly it sucked. But those threads never go very far. Why? Because most people know the OP of the thread was lying.

Is it really bait, if it is just the truth?

>>94793826
You can't be friends with someone in spandex, it'd just feel ridiculous after five minutes

>>94806140
I played water polo, you don't care after 5 minutes.

>>94806140
>You can't be friends with some ginger, it'd just feel ridiculous after five minutes

>>94792375
Ok man that's enough. I'm sorry those fake news about Affleck leaving and the reshoot thing didn't work and this "Whedon is a rapist" thing is backfiring so hard, but tell your bosses that we can't do anything about Wonder Woman crushing an Iron Man and Spider-Man movie

>>94806294
Implying my bosses care about Raimi Spider-man.

>>94792625
Maybe because it's good.