Honest question. Are characters like Jonah Hex in danger of being

>>94659768
they never get rido of properties. They might make him regret it all the time. Or make him a spy from the north.

I'm assuming you're posting this because of the monument stuff, but it's not really comparable because specific characters contextualize concepts enough that it doesn't matter.

Maybe some would complain, but you're not going to see elements being taken out like that.

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>>94659824
Yeah, thats correct. The other monuments and stuff I dont give a shit about. But this felt....off. Wrong somehow, and I don't really know why.

It just got me thinking about Hex and what the future holds for him and any characters that could be in the same position.

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>>94659768
There have been multiple attempts to re-contextualize the Confederate uniform already.

Either way, the current fervor over Confederate stuff is going to die in a little while anyway. It's not like Hex waves around a Confederate flag, he just wears a uniform, and with how unbelievably stupid and ignorant of history most of the people raging are, they won't even know it's a Confederate uniform anyway.

And even as a huge Hex fan, if they do eliminate the Confederate service and change his outfit slightly, I won't care that much. It's never been that big of a part of him.

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>>94659979
I don't think it's the same kind of thing because the debate about those is the context (honoring vs history). And as already stated, his story explains what it means to him. You don't need to do more than that.

Not exactly the same, but look at how other problematic issues have been addressed recently. Yang didn't change this design when he used the character in New Super-Man with the same reasoning. Erasure doesn't do anything. You should address your problems head-on.

I would be more concerned about Hex's design being generally changed for the hell of it rather than because people are scared of the Confederacy.

Even if you think the South were racist, slave whippers, whats wrong with having characters who aren't all goody two shoes?

It's an interesting perspective.

So here's the thing.

The reason there's a huge push now to tear down Civil War monuments is-- well, because there are neo-Klansmen in the streets, but it's because we generally understand monuments to be erected in memory of honorable historical figures. That's why there are statues of Lincoln and Washington and Churchill, but none of Hitler.

The issue with these monuments is they present an uncritical image of, say, Robert E. Lee. And I mean critical here not as in "negative" but as in "critical analysis". Monuments/statues of real-world figures are generally understood to be endorsements, and Confederate leaders shouldn't be endorsed (or so goes the general consensus).

Jonah Hex should be fine for the same reason they aren't going to stop making WW2-era or slavery-era films. As long as the fact of the character is used meaningfully to inform some kind of theme, there's no reason to just discard it for discarding's sake.

I don't know how I'm doing on character limit but if you want I can elaborate some themes I think Jonah could cover better than any other cape book character, and that a Confederate character history would inform.

>>94659768
Of course it is. Great question and topic. Hope the mods don't remove or ban for speaking your mind honestly here. As an older comicfag, this whole new generation of SJW whining offended snowflakes you see on TV EVERY DAY will find any viewpoint they disagree with and protest to have it removed from existence and erased from history. Someone is offended by the very notion of a Confederate soldier, let's treat them like they were all inhuman monsters not worthy of a casual mention anywhere. Of course, they already take so many historically white characters and replace them with black actors, but not vice versa. Muh divershitty... it's no wonder the lunatic alt-right protests, the double standard is quite blatant and obvious.

>>94660241
I'm giving OP himself the benefit of the doubt because he has provided actual comic discussion. But it will probably derail into that sort of thing in the end, just knowing /co/.

>>94659768

>Are characters like Jonah Hex in danger of being retired completely because of their backgrounds?

They still make Civil War movies about people living in Confederate areas. Hell. Sofia Coppola just won Best Director at Cannes for The Beguiled, which is about a bunch of Confederate women.

/co/ takes the Hot Take/Thinkpiece Brigade too seriously. They're never going to stop people from making what they want to make. If Jonah Hex is ever retired, it'll be because the character is just unpopular, not because of woke Twitter or whatever.

Monuments and actual flags are a different thing and a different discussion from art/media/pop culture.

>>94659824
Monument stuff is only part of it. You can no longer buy and sell anything with a confederate flag on it on most online shops. Even some of the major chinese sellers, and they sell to anyone. Amazon has pulled books about the confederate flag as well.

Comixology doesn't currently ban the flag.

>>94660025
Right, he has the advantage that it's not necessarily recognizable, and that it's not what he's famous for.

>>94660241
Only if people are complete retards about it.

who am I fucking kidding.

>>94660253
>Monuments/statues of real-world figures are generally understood to be endorsements, and Confederate leaders shouldn't be endorsed (or so goes the general consensus).
You realize the Lee was against the Confederate secession and didn't care for Slavery, right? And that he was the one who surrendered to Union forces to prevent further casualties as Appomattox, right? And, most importantly I think, rejected the idea of kicking off ANOTHER Civil War.
I mean, outside of his attitudes about black people voting (which, lets be real, probably weren't that different from Washington's), he seems pretty fucking endorsable.
And I say this as a filthy, yankee, midwestern bleeding heart liberal.

>>94660253
There's a little more going on about it than just that. The rioters also took down the government flags and up antifa flags in some spots.

Amazon will probably not allow any back issue of hex with a confederate flag on it to be sold.

>Jonah Hex should be fine for the same reason they aren't going to stop making WW2-era or slavery-era films. As long as the fact of the character is used meaningfully to inform some kind of theme, there's no reason to just discard it for discarding's sake.

This strikes me as too close to"Only if we agree with the politics in it".

How do I into Hex?

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>>94659768
>Jonah Hex
No.
>Haunted Tank
Absolutly, they even stated as much in Dr. Thirteen.

>>94660514
>Amazon will probably not allow any back issue of hex with a confederate flag on it to be sold.

Uh, maybe if the cover is just one big confederate flag that would be an issue. Otherwise I doubt it.

>>94660510

>I mean, outside of his attitudes about black people voting (which, lets be real, probably weren't that different from Washington's), he seems pretty fucking endorsable.

Being "one of the good ones" doesn't somehow excuse him.

>>94660514
Not that guy but

>Amazon will probably not allow any back issue of hex with a confederate flag on it to be sold.

Pretty sure it's still all up on their main site AND Comixology (which they also own). And they sell Civil War movies too of course. It's obviously not that cut and dry.

But private companies stocking what they want is not exactly OP's concern, which was mostly regarding the publisher level.

>>94660326
>They're never going to stop people from making what they want to make.

you're not fooling anyone

>>94660326
The idea that amazon would be pulling books with confederate flag covers on it in the first place is something I never expected.

>>94660585
>>94660618
Current policy only involves the cover, and it's inconsistent. It wouldn't suprise me a bit if it changes in the future.

>>94660649

Yeah I forgot when woke Twitter broke into that guy's house and burned all his stuff because of how "problematic" it was.

Oh wait, that never happened.

>>94660510
>probably weren't that different from Washington's
Oh no his view on black people in society are about the same as Lincoln. Lincoln fully believed in the superior white race, because it was the 1800's and shit like Phrenology passed for science.

>>94660712
Are you kidding? Insane fuckers got SOUTH PARK to back off and censor themselves.

>>94659768
Hex is low-profile enough to not really matter. SJW's in their 20s don't really care about westerns.

There have been plenty of good stories told through a German Nazi's perspective. That doesn't excuse an entire ideology. What matters is the man inside the uniform. It's pretty clear Hex didn't give a shit about the wants of slave owners when he fought.

>>94659768
No, because Hex isn't a white supremacy icon, unlike the Confederate flag which has those connotations thanks to the long history of racism and hate groups intentionally associating themselves with it. The Charlotte march showed the protestors proudly carry their Confederate flags alongside Nazi flags.

The thing with the statues is that they weren't put up in the direct aftermath of the civil war, remembering and honoring their dead. They were put out decades later in attempt to romanticize the southern side and reinterpret history so that the war was "actually about states rights"

>>94659768
>Honest question. Are characters like Jonah Hex in danger of being retired completely because of their backgrounds?

No.

>>94660241
>So this is basically just a stealth /pol/ thread?

Yes.

>>94661235
Weren't a lot of them put up after the Federal government officially declared former Confederate soldiers as US veterans allowing them burial in national cemeteries?

Dan DiDio has a HUGE fucking boner for Jonah Hex. To the point that he kept his book going for years even though it was a commercial flop.

He's NEVER going to be going away so long as Dan has anything to say.

>>94660253
>>94660510
>>94660769
The Civil War was 100% unrelated to slavery. Lincoln himself said so. The Confederacy even outlawed slavery.

Now take this thread elsewhere.

>>94661235
What you're referring to isn't even the Confederate flag.

And the protestors were antifa. Actual "white nationalists" showed up before the protests started and were kicked out and were not involved in the march.

There are fucking tons of videos of this shit. Stop copy/pasting shit from CNN.

Not even white, btw, before one of you faggots suggests otherwise.

>>94661314
That's actually the ENTIRE reason the monuments were built. As war memorials.

>>94661874

And the woman getting killed by the car was an obvious false flag operation, right?

>>94661874
Time to leave this board, you dirty Italian.

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Can anyone recommend some Jonah Hex comics? Or westerns in general?

>>94660238
Because it would hurt some SJW's fee-fees.

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>>94660181
Shit, now I want to see a New Super-Man/Jonah Hex crossover.

>>94662765

>Or westerns in general?

Do you want

>Old Black&White Westerns, the classic stuff

>60's Spaghetti Westerns

>70's Revisionist/New Hollywood Westerns

>90's Neo Westerns (basically the post-Unforgiven stuff)

Westerns have gone through so many permutations it's hard to recommend unless you give me more context.

>>94662765

Just about all of it's good.

- Weird Western Tales featuring Jonah Hex
Fairly old fashioned western shit, not that dark. But interesting if you like the character.
>HEX
Pretty give or take, it takes Hex and throws him into Mad Max style dystopian wasteland future. Sounds cooler than it actually is, as this is very PG. Personally I don't really like it beyond couple of issues.
>Jonah Hex by Palmiotti and Gray
Baasically the modern Gold Standard and easiest to get into. Mainly one-and-done stories with dark shit happening, with plenty of other western characters guest starring during it's 70 issue run.
>All Star Western
Again by Palmiotti and Gray team, this time doing a more DC universe oriented story arc approach. Purists don't like it because it's so different from the previous volume and doesn't have as much Hex in the west. I dig it because it's a different type of Hex and plays with the fish out of water aspect. Also has a cool Swamp Thing and Constantine crossover.

There's also couple of Vertigo titles by Hex that really lean on the WEIRD part of Weird Western Tales. Not everyone's cup of tea.

>>94663017
I suppose the easiest jumping on point would be with the old classics unless you think otherwise. Start with the general and move to more specialized sub-genres.

>>94663070
Nice. Thanks a ton for the info, dear anon.

>>94663070
Hey, thanks, anon! I have an itxh for a western comics lately, an' you just delivered.

>>94660181
To be honest, as long as they don't change his face, they can do whatever they want to Jonah's outfit. Just make sure he still looks like an outlaw sheriff.

>>94659768

I've only seen Hex in the DCAU, the crossover with Yosemite Sam, and a few random pages posted here.

Only now did someone mention he was part of the Confederacy.

He'll be fine.

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>>94663253

I mean, if you want tto go down to brass tacks and just get to the classics, you've got Rio Bravo, Shane, the original True Grit(though heathen that I am, I prefer the remake), 3:10 To Yuma, The Searchers, so on. Those are the ones that have probably aged the best in terms of being watchable for modern viewers. Lots of people will recommend High Noon but honestly I find that one pretty boring.

The Spaghetti Westerns are the ones you've already most likely seen, The Dollars Trilogy. If you haven't seen them, they're obvious ones, though be warned that they're all around 2.5 hours long, Leone takes his time and his real masterpiece(Once Upon A Time In The West) is 3 fucking hours.

The 70's area fairly easy, anything with Clint Eastwood. My personal favorite is The Outlaw Josey Wales, but you can't go wrong with any of his movies from this era.

The 80's are a death trap for traditional Westerns. Ignore all of them. Someone might argue shit like Young Guns is good, but they're wrong and should be ignored. Pale Rider is a decent Shane remake, but that's it. There's great Neo-Westerns being made, but that's a topic for another time.

90's you've got Tombstone, which is pretty much one of the best introductions to Westerns I an think of. It's pretty much as much fun as a movie can get, totally absurd and OTT with one of the best casts of all time. Then you've got Unforgiven, which id Unforgiven. That doesn't need a qualifier.

2000's-onwards you've got some decent stuff like 3:10 to Yuma remake, Appaloosa, so on.

Keep in mind that's a super-basic rundown and isn't getting into things like Peckinpah, the other Italian filmmakers outside of Leone, all the Magnificent Seven stuff, the Neo-Westerns, etc. But you get the idea

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>>94663070
I need to track down some of those Jordi Bernet Jonah Hex issues. As far as I know beyond Torpedo it's his only work that's in English.

>>94663553
>Someone might argue shit like Young Guns is good,

Young Guns is fun, though. Young Guns 2 was neither necessary or fun.

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>>94660537
Read everything in chronological order. Not even joking.

If you're not big on bronze age style comics you can skip to the Vertigo stuff (but don't expect it to keep being supernatural) or volume 2.

>>94660574
What about the HT mini from a few years ago?

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>>94660585
You mean like this?

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>>94662765
>>94663070
Also Bat Lash

>>94663590
There's Cicca Dum-Dum and Clara de Noche.

>>94665395
>What about the HT mini from a few years ago?

See, that Vertigo mini was different, because they made the entire premise of the book be that of addressing racism. And they did so on multiple levels, such as the general, much to his dismay, finding out his descendant was in fact a black man rather than the white dude he first assumes to be of his bloodline, while his great-great-great grandson in turn was butthurt and angry at the General over the civil war and slavery shit.

And of course the best part was that while all that was happening, the entire tank crew were shown to be blatantly racist against the local "hadjis" without really picking up on the hypocrisy. Though I think it might have briefly touched just before the comic ended.

>>94660253
Only the victors get to have statues

>>94659768
No.

>>94660600
No, he should be forever damned instead. But that wouldn't be good enough for your folks either

>>94660769
>Lincoln fully believed in the superior white race
based

>>94661755
Based Didio

>>94663070
I see a recent surge of popularity of Hex. I wonder if if has something to do with that Yosemite Sam special...

>>94659768
Maybe. Especially since writers like to use characters as mouthpieces.

>>94665699

It's the first appearance in awhile, and Hex has enjoyed a niche fan audience for a good decade now, so whenever there's new material, people get excited. I was highly skeptical of the Foghorn Leghorn/Yosemite Sam crossover but it was pretty fucking great. Texeira's still got it.

>>94665733
Yeah. Remember the recent Shadow?

>>94659979
I can understand wanting to get rid of some of the Jim Crow era monuments that were made when the KKK were at their peak but why is Robert E. Lee statues getting so much hate? Robee Lee is generally seen as a pretty cool dude from people of all political standings.

>>94665747
BECAUSE FUCK YOU

seriously, what other reason do you need. the world is black and white. literally

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>>94665699
It wasn't the Scooby Doo team up.

>>94665747

Well Robert E. Lee is literally the face of the confederate army, i.e. defending slavery in the Civil War, to most people.

>>94665743
Lim and Texeira should do some work again.

>>94665762
To be honest, I feel like we should have another Civil War. Just kidding.

>>94665762
And? Even during the war he was highly respected by the North. Hell, he was Lincoln's first choice for general of the Union army and he only joined the Confederacy because he felt an obligation to his homeland in Virginia despite not really supporting secession in the first place. Hell, even after the war he was still highly respected and was completely against the whole "the South will rise again" mentality.

>>94665784
We should just calmly and without too much fuss dissolve the USA and grant every state independence

>>94665873
That would be too good to happen

>>94661874

is this some kind of false flag to make /pol/ look even dumber?

>>94665841

Optics has nothing to do with historical facts. The swastika used historically mean a symbol of auspiciousness and good luck but now it's just a symbol of hate for nazis and white supremacy. Similarly Lee has become the face of slavery in the United States.

>>94666009
That's retarded. A symbol I can understand but a person? God, I fucking hate what this country has turned into...

>>94666019

>A symbol I can understand but a person?

A statue is not about the person, it's about the symbol. That's always been the case.

>>94659768
Simple: Make him a man with no name rip off.

Hex already had a perfect ending. Apart from some fun one shots he should never have an on going again

>>94659979
>>94660408

Not an Americlap. What's happening now ? A reaction to that guy who plowed into antifa ?

>>94666110

Which one, the one where he dies in a card game or where he happily sails away with his new reconstructive surgery face?

>>94665395

Bronze age Hex isn't as bad as cape stuff. I think the writers tried since it was less embarrassing to create westerns than stories of men fighting crime in their underpants

>>94666159

The latter. Just let him lie

>>94660253
>but it's because we generally understand monuments to be erected in memory of honorable historical figures.
>That's why there are statues of Lincoln and Washington and Churchill, but none of Hitler.

Washington owned slaves. Lincoln wanted to ship them back to Africa. Churchill hated Islam and thought the British Empire was the last best hope for humanity. They're already furiously denounced by the frothier type of leftist.
You think as their good deeds fade they won't be denounced as monsters?
#ChurchillMustFall

>>94659768
just make hex a bounty hunter instead of a confederate, boom problem solved

>>94666602
Churchill also had concentration camps, gassed people, was a commie and was responsible for black and tans. Just like Stalin, he's not as hated as bad as Hitler because he won in ww2.

>>94660784

And it was business as usual right after.

When a show or business backs off its never that they're afraid of the person complaining, but the money that might be lost if they dont give the complainer a half assed acknowledgement. Not to mention the publicity works in their favor because now said complainer will be vilified by the angry fan base that will double down and fight against any future complaints.

SJWS aren't running anything, they're just part of the game.

>>94663553

Opinion may vary, but the Quick and the Dead is one of my faves for Gene Hackman as one of his best villains ever.

So will we ever get to see the ghost of Gen. Jeb Stuart driving the haunted tank fighting Nazi's again,'co?

>>94667549
Tell that to Charlie Hebo. Or the dozen or so police officers killed by BLM.

>>94667435
Well someone hasn't read much Hex, he's already a bounty hunter not a Confederate. At least not any more.

>>94660574
Expanding on this though, since the thread is still here:
Hex is portrayed as relativily morally grey and distanced from his military career that it's fine.
I imagine that people would get mad but not exactly protest.
Now the Haunted Tank, despite being one of the most popular WWII team of characters DC has, also features a real life person that actually fought in the war and the Dixie Flag itself, which is by itself and trigger more than anything else, so we are probably only seeing it as a joke or in a limited fashion for a while.

>>94669080
Haunted Tank has already been used in very limited fashion for several decades now, due to general lack of interest. In the past thirty years it's only had one mini-series to its name, the vertigo one which has been mentioned above, and only because it was set in the second gulf war and was more of a topical satire. Other than that, there was a one-shot in 2010 (but other classic DC war comics similarly had their own) , and it got featured in G.I. combat in 2012 for a two-parter and was about the haunted tank fighting a war wheel (that turned into a haunted flying saucer) in modern times. Beyond that it's been very brief cameos. That ain't a hell of a lot of appearances, so it's a bit much to infer that the current political climate is the primary reason it's not going to get featured more.

>>94659768
>Its not unreasonable for them to want that,
Yes it is

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>>94665492
>>94665395

>>94666134
The whole rally itself has charged everybody since it was literally people with torches in the middle of the night doing hitler salutes. Usually protests/issues aren't nearly as stereotypical as the Virginia one. Everyone's gonna be talking about it for a while

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>>94660238
This. Especially villains.

>>94670314
It also didn't help Trump first tried to blame both sides and then spent two days dragging his feet before calling neo-nazis by name when condemning them. This is the guy who usually starts attacking people on twitter five seconds after he sees something he doesn't like on TV and spent a year bitching about Obama not saying "extremist islamic terrorism"

>>94670400

>not blaming both sides

Both sides are extremist violent retards who were looking to stir some shit up

>>94670459
Only one side ended up killing people.

>>94670516
Well, MORE people

>>94660253
Belgium keeps Leopold II around. We just don't really care.

>>94659768
I wonder how the new Shadow series will pan out.

>>94666009
>>94660253
>>94666019
And Benedict Arnold wasn't a mustache twirling villain, he only turned traitor because he felt spurned by Washington and the new congress for continued legitimate grievances against him. It doesn't help matters that others took credit for his contributions as a revolutionary up to that point either. But people don't care about the human aspects of historical figures, they only care about the veneration for or against because its easier to look at things in black and white. Who cares if Lee freed his slaves before joining the war, who cares is Lincoln only emancipated the slaves because he was losing his position and needed more troops, who cares if Custer was a massive asshole or that before slavery was abolished, there were numerous attempts by the new congress in Washington's time to stop it before the Civil War was ever an issue.

>>94660253
Whig history is the last bastion of the brainlet.

>Statues must present critiques of those they depict - critiques that are palatable to ME, right NOW

Before you blather on about not saying that, yes, you are, as your entire argument relies on the phrase 'general consensus'.

Any adult knows that their heroes have flaws and that men are not great because they are flawless - and anyone attempting to make their heroes into flawless charicatures are mentally damaged. This is why people laugh at the more Aryan depictions of Jesus Christ (because the attempt to recontextualize him in the image of oneself is ridiculous) and why Muslims refuse to let anyone depict Mohammed at all (because such icons detract from his mystique and will be used to deride him at a later date, detracting from his longevity).

What you advocate for in essence is that celebrations of history have an expiration date, because eventually the cultures that erect them will move on and come to despise the flaws their history possesses. One of the only things on this earth that allows your deeds to be commemorated, reflected upon, that allows a man or woman to have a sliver of immortality, you'd see dusted for the sake of what essentially amounts to cultural mob mentality.

I'd sooner you and those like you died than the statues, or the flags, or the conversations about all of it.

Oh yeah, by the way

>Neo-Klansmen

This is how I know you're just pretending to be even handed about your arguments, mental indigent.

>>94670516
>>94670529

Okay then, both sides are extremist violent retards who were looking to stir some shit up but one side had one extra retard with a Challenger

>>94660263
This is what happens when millennials grow u-older. And yet remain babies.

>>94670400
>I don't have a problem with Obama taking literal years to name 'extremist islamic terrorism'
>But I do have a problem with Trump taking two days to name 'neo nazis'

>>94670835
That's usually how it goes, there's always a tipping point. It's a tug of war, the harder one side pulls, the other side will try to match it until some poor assholes fall into the mud. It doesn't help that vandalizing state property like southern memorials is going to radicalize people even further.

>>94662765
theres a comic he goes to Gotham , read that