Is Watchmen the first pure post-modern text of mainstream American

>>94644042
The Death of Captain Marvel

>>94644208
How is that book postmodernist?

>>94644303
Well, its entire point is deconstruction. But then again, that was the point of Spider-Man once.

>>94644482
>deconstruction is pure postmodernism
Neither was Death of Captain Marvel a deconstruction nor do I think you understand what postmodern in this context is.

>>94644042
Nope, Squadron Supreme did it first.

>>94644042
I feel like Moore's Miracle Man did this sort of thing before he penned the Watchmen. Deconstructing superheroes I mean.

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>>94644042
>Is Watchmen the first pure post-modern text of mainstream American graphic fiction, at least when it comes to capeshit and other popular stuff?

Interesting question.

Probably not, depending on your definition. Some could argue that the road to self aware "Postmodern"* cape comics could be as far back as Stan Lee and the first appearance of Spider-Man.

>Like costumed heroes? Confidentially, we in the comic mag business refer to them as "Long Underwear Characters"! As you know, there a dime a dozen!

The editor is literally winking at the audience and saying "Hey, we know superhero's are corny and there are too many of them, but give us a try."

>>94644646
>>94644866
>>94644954
When it comes to me saying pure postmodern, I don't just mean deconstruction or self awareness but also the other aspects of pomo. You guys are strictly thinking on metatexual level, how it relates to comics as a medium and what not but I'm also trying to view Watchmen through social context of the movement. Watchmen while being a collection of narrative tricks that are found in pomo fiction (subverting the tropes, subjective narratives, self referentialism etc) also has all these other social elements as well. Discontinuity and death of grand narratives, death of morality, skepticism towards ideology, attachment towards individualism, moral relativism and discontent towards collectivism and so on. I was thinking if there was any other book that had all these elements as well.

>>94645126
>Discontinuity and death of grand narratives, death of morality, skepticism towards ideology, attachment towards individualism, moral relativism and discontent towards collectivism and so on. I was thinking if there was any other book that had all these elements as well.


Literally Squadron Supreme.

>>94645191
I would read it soon, I heard ending was rushed and pretty shitty though.

>>94645191
The basis of Miracle Man during Moore's run of the character, and continuing on with Gaiman's is based off gaslighting superhumans created by the uk gov't in response to nuclear threats. They're brainwashed to see the world as golden age comics. It's p great. There's more to it obviously.

>>94645226
Ending was not rushed, it was abrupt, and totally fitting to the story and the whole point of it.

>>94644042
Explain first how 'Watchmen' is related to post-modernism, describe it specifically

>>94645191
This.

Basically , Squadron Supreme were being retarded SJW's and surrogate Batman was like "Guys are you sure we're not the villains here?", and they were like "FUCK YOU YOU DONT UNDERSTAND REEEEEEEEEE", and the result is an all out war between them and they only realize they are retarded when it's too late.

>>94645261
>>94645126

>>94645126
>Discontinuity and death of grand narratives, death of morality, skepticism towards ideology, attachment towards individualism, moral relativism and discontent towards collectivism and so on.

Many fit this definition. But as has been done with others in the thread, you seem to refuse any answer. You've described many comics its just that Watchmen is rather cynical about the whole ordeal.

also, this.>>94645261

because right now it seems, at best, you're a /lit. poster attempting to act cool because you read watchmen or heard it called post-modern.

>>94644042
One definition for post-modernism is the refusal for the search of the core. Instead of the core post-modernism should study differend layers between the shell and the core. Of course this view supposes that modernism searches the core in ideas and phenomenons. In the context of those parameters I feel that Watchmen can been seen as both modern and post-modern. It is a story about the search for truth, a core of sorts. And it is a story about different layer of truth, how different characters saw and experienced the story.

>>94645315
>Many fit this definition.
Only answer so far has been Squadron Supreme.
>But as has been done with others in the thread, you seem to refuse any answer.
I haven't posted this in any other threads about Watchmen and postmodernism neither have I seen a lot of interesting discourse about Watchmen's semantics on /co, /co/ as a whole don't actually want to generate interesting discussion, it's actively discouraged here.
>You've described many comics its just that Watchmen is rather cynical about the whole ordeal.
Again, you haven't really named any.
>because right now it seems, at best, you're a /lit. poster attempting to act cool because you read watchmen or heard it called post-modern.
I post on both /lit/ and /co/, no I haven't just read Watchmen, yes I've heard it being called the first and primary postmodern text for this medium and I want to discuss about it, what's the problem?

>>94645379
>Only answer so far has been Squadron Supreme.
No, the only acknowledged one has been Squadron Supreme.

>>94645342
Interesting, I do find that Watchmen actively flips back and forth between modern and postmodern values. In sort of over simplification of commodities involved, at the end of Watchmen heroes come together in a very collectivist fashion to agree to go their separate ways for the good of the humanity. The truth that they share and agreed upon to conceal and the non verbal pact of never coming together, very disparate in nature.

>>94645423
Not OP but Spider-man and Death of Captain Marvel are not post modern and that's all that's been listed so far. Stop being obnoxious.

>>94645423
What are the other examples then?

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>>94644042

>>94645455
Couple of Spiderman stories were, namely the Death of Jean DeWolff and KLH

>>94645126
>attachment towards individualism
>discontent towards collectivism

Aren't those part of modernism more than post-modernism?

>>94645781
Modernism is more individuation and sense of individual being in the context of the collective than individualism but people don't outright disregard traditional values.

>>94646113
Individualism is still a bigger part of modernism than post-modernism though?