Gail Simone wants to write Zatanna. I'd allow it.

Superhero comics aren't very good

Anyone skilled at strong three point perspective or PoV shots, since Simone will inevitably work her giant woman fetish into it

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>Giantess Zatanna
I can shiggy diggy.

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Phil Noto. His art on Black Widow elevated the series with a wonderful retro feel.

>>94422057
Frank Cho.

>>94422090
Gail Simone has written some entertaining ones, that's for sure.

Gail Simone is a bad writer.

>>94422791
Yes, 10 years ago.
You're a faggot though, that's for sure.

>>94422838
Clean Room and Red Sonja were good, enough with this meme.

>>94422057
Zatanna gives me urges too.

Guess she's gonna wear pants now. And a bigger jacket to hide her features.

>>94424593
Like who else? What other character did Gail Simone do this with?

Writing words backwards seems a little advanced for Gail.

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>>94424593

Cho

>>94422057
Guillem March

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>>94424593
2

>>94422057
Fine. Just stop with the JLD nonsense.

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>>94424593
3

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>>94424593
4

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>>94422057

Frank Cho.

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>>94424593
5

>>94424726
That bra is a scientific miracle.

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>>94424593
6

>>94424593
You know Burnside wasn't written by Simone right?

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Has she shown up in Rebirth yet? Did they get rid of her New52 JL Costume? I love this one right next to her classic costume.

No one but waifufags cares about this shit character anyway.

>>94424801
casual

>>94424801
Or Paul Dini.

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>>94424593
Gotta love catching somebody who's memeing nonsense.

>>94424785
She just showed up in the latest Detective Comics arc.

>>94422057
Might be cool.

>>94424593
Gail simone is a sjw in some ways but she is not that type of sjw.

>>94424785
Yeah, she's been hanging out with Batman the last couple issues of 'Tec.

HELL no. I've only read her trash run on Batgirl but from what I understand her success rate is low and swingy as hell. Rebirth has been (mostly) about rejuvenating characters and a concerted effort on quality. I'd rather Zatanna be in nothing at all than locked down by the patient zero of SJW identity-over-merit creative politics.
If she botches Zatanna she'll lock her job down with Twitter crying like she did with Batgirl. Don't know why DC even looks at her after that stunt.

>>94422057
other than her sexy outfit, does Zatanna have anything else going for her?

It's all her fans care about, so is she a shit character?

>>94424881
>only read her Batgirl
You dont know enough to contribute to this conversation.

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>>94424881
>>94424860
You guys obviously don't know what an actual SJW is. The cucks who took over after she left Batgirl were bonafide SJWs.

https://www.newsarama.com/23011-batgirl-creators-apologize-in-the-wake-of-transgender-controversy.html

These faggots werent writing for 2 issues before they started apologizing to people. Simone literally made just ONE tranny. Didn't even wank over it. The fuckboys made TWO new one and them threw a giant tranny wedding to back peddle losing their new target audience. I bet you wouldn't say shit if you heard one of those two were writing a Zatanna book.

>>94424593
Gail Simone loves Red Sonja's chainmail bikini and Ed Bene's is one of her favourite artists.

You're a fucking idiot.

>>94424837
who drew that? clay mann?

>>94425494
Javier Garron.

>>94425151
>Simone literally made just ONE tranny. Didn't even wank over it
uhh

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>>94425151
I can never understand you reactionary types. Is the measure of a sjw counted in how many transgender characters they create?

>>94425598
>uh
That's a good start. Now use the rest of your words to form a thought.

>>94422057
>Gail Simone wants to write Zatanna
She shouldn't.

>>94425714
If it can be quantified at all, then that means people can be more or less sjw than others. And if that's the case, the person who makes one SJW statement in the form of a tranny won't be as much of an SJW as the cucks who introduced TWO new trannies, and hijab wearing muslim, and detached Barbara from her controlling Batman patriarchy.

So yes.

>>94425714
Not him but I measure them by how much they shove their viewpoints into their work and grandstand with more political points than actual plot. If half the issue is centred about how great some tranny is, then they are SS-tier SJW faggots

>>94424830
Paul Dini is a waifufag, tho.

>>94425727
Why?

>>94423282
Did her run redesign her?

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>>94425763
>>94425784
...do you people ever leave your house?

>>94424860
Wasn't one of the big things she wanted to do to make Lara and Sam canonically gay for each other in the Tomb Raider comics?
I believe her and Pratchett had a sort of raport for it but ultimately Crystal Dynamics blocked the idea because for some reason romance and Lara don't seem to work even after the Reboot.

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>>94425714
Your attribution is wrong. It was SJWs who created that ranking to begin with. It's an applciation of intersectionality to shit like the Bechtel test. A transexual black refugee is more oprressed than a hispanic male migrant under intersectionality, and is therefore worth more points.

It turns out that this system of SJW good amigix points is actually not that unreasonable of a proxy at identifying SJW creators. It's only a very loose metric, mind you, as a crucial part of SJWness is solidarity with utter retardation and bigotry, if it's aimed at the correct people.

Some of the Eisner voters explicitely vote using this system.

>>94426404
There is nothing worth the time or effort out there, ya normie.

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>>94426585
As further evidence, look at the reviews of books. There are many reviewers, both pro and user that will rate a book higher simply for having transexuals in it, and explicityly cite it in the review, or lump it under "diversity". It's not the reactionaries doing that.

Pic related. The review site this storytime of pain class book 3.5/5. Check the reviews for America Chavez's ongoing.

>>94426404
Leave the house? Like a fucking normie?

>>94426404
It's not like i'm reciting Pi. It was a pretty straightforward argument.

>>94422057
Allow Dini to be involved. Otherwise, it's like she's cheating on him.

>>94422705
OUTRAGE!!!

>>94426403
Nope. See >>94424664 and all the other pic of comics she wrote for.

>>94426803
Why? Not like Dini invented her.

>>94425583
No he's right it's clay mann. Garron drew the interiors only

http://www.dccomics.com/comics/batgirl-2011/batgirl-futures-end-1

>>94422057
>Gail Simone
>Allowed to write

me too
maybe a suicide note for herself

>>94425225
Source writing her on that?

>>94425917
because he hates women

>>94424785
Already answered, but she was on that Reis Rebirth poster too

>>94422133
This Anon knows what is up

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>>94424726
>>94424739
You could also add any issue of Secret Six to this. Plenty of cheesecake and beefcake

>>94422057
>Gail Simone writing anything these days

No thanks. Can't remember if I have read even one thing that I've like in this decade by her.

>>94422057
isnt she the retarded SJW who drags DC down? why isnt she working at marvel?

>people who have never read her red Sonja run say she didn't try to ruin red Sonja

She made her disgusting like herself in real life.

>>94424593
Go be triggered by a female somewhere else

>>94426803
Dini honestly writes boring Zatanna stories and often shoehorns Batman in.

>>94426404
Many leave to store to go get lotion for masturbation

>>94424801
I Like her but I'm not a waifufag, I'm a gayfag.

>>94428333
This. Dini just pairs up his waifu (Zatanna) with his self-insert (Batman). Zee needs someone who wants to actually DO something with her.

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>>94422057
I would be interested in this.

Art my Sana Takeda. That way having 2 girls write a sexy woman won't end up having people bitch

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>>94424726
what did he mean by this

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>>94428883
I guess I shouldn't post a picture in Sana's old style. This is her new style and would work beautifully for for Zatanna.

But she's not leaving Monstress anytime soon. I think it's the 3rd biggest selling Image book now

>>94426404
No one who bitches about sjw does. They live in their little comfort bubble of easy outrage that they keep sustaining by seeking out people as crazy as themselves to laugh at.

In the real world you come across publicly masturbating hobos 4000 times more often than you do with a sjw that neckbeards bitch about and think are taking over their dumb hobbies.

Morrison is the only good modern Zatanna writer

Gail can write some good comics but goddamn is she so annoying on twitter.

>>94429671
then don't read it. Social media is cancer, haven't you learned this yet? Get off it and stay off it

Captcha: STOP STOP

>>94422705
God, yes.

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>>94429701
The only twitter I have is the one I use to follow porn actresses, otherwise I avoid social media like the plague.

>>94422705
>>94429726
Honestly I feel like his samebody wouldn't work for her. Zatanna is more THINN than THICC.

>>94425151
>here's trans character
>it's not the paragon of virtue, wtf, that shines bad light on whole community
>omg, we're so sorry, it will never happen again
LMAO

>>94429732
>porn actresses
camwhores? cause I don't understand the point of others? unless they are fetish models who do Latex stuff, then I see the point

>>94422057
I would read this. I'm not sure who should do art though. Are there any good artists that she collaborates frequently with?

>>94424773
Is this good?

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I can trust Gail to bring back the magic tranny.

>>94422057

No, keep this sjw bitch far away from zatanna. Having one decent giantess arc doesn't make up for udon.

>>94422057

Gail Simone needs to write Lazarus

>>94430181
I only read the first issue. Some of the character interactions were interesting but I didn't get enough of a taste to say if it was good or now. I would buy a trade if I found it for half price though

>>94428333
>>94428770
My niggas.

Give Zatanna to literally (almost) anyone else. They would probably do a much better job.

>>94430222
Gail brought back Red Sonja's bikini armor though.

>>94425715
First of all, Gail was cheating. She gave no indication up to that point that Alysia was trans, she was basically a non-entity in that series.
Secondly, and while I don't really know if Gail had any say over this, Alysia was incorrectly billed by the media as DC first trans character which is simply isn't true even if we discount Vertigo.
A lot DC heroes have had their gender changed.
>Hal Jordan
>Guy Gardner
>Shade the changing (wo)man
>Mitch(ell) Shelley

>>94425917
Because she's shit at writing magic.

>>94425151
>two new ones
I think it was just the same one from Gail's run. Would Dagger Trap count as a transoerson? He's a drag queen and that's not necessarily transgender.

>>94430427

C'mon now. You know 'it's a genderswap episode' isn't what they mean by transgender.

....gonna need to see genderswapped hal tho.

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>>94424593
great bait mate

>>94423667
Can you master Chaos Magic to will one into existence. Dini did.

>>94429131
sana has really gone a long way from her earlier work. it's impressive to see how much she has improved. but yeah like you said, monstress looks like the kind of book that takes forever to illustrate. i doubt she'll be working on anything else past maybe some covers here and there

>>94424770
Bruce developed Rigid Construction tops.

>>94424755
Dammit Ron you can do better. I mean you've gotta be able to.

>>94425848
He willed her into existence to be his wife. Fuck those other so called wizards.

Chaos Magic FTW

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>>94424593
100% covered up

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>>94430593
the amazing thing is that Sana started at a level most comic book artists can't even hope to achieve. I think the main thing she is missing is how to use panels in a more interesting way, but she probably just needs a better comic writer to work with her for that.

I love her cheesecake past, and am glad for all the material that came from it. But her current art is SO much better and has subtleties that wouldn't work in her old style.

Where is this idea that Gail is some kind of militant sex-negative SJW coming from? The worst thing she did was say that waifus shouldn't be killed willy-nilly.

>>94430399
>literally (almost) anyone else.
Looking at DC's pool of writers right now... this is not something you wanna say
>Humphries
>Lobdell
>Tomasi
>Tynion
>Bennett
>Jurgens
>Blandnett
>Williamson
>Bensons

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>>94430522
Trying to find her.
Here's something else though.

>>94430759
/co/ doesn't read comics. This is a board for regurgitating gossip and misinformation.

>>94430759

Go look at her twitter, white knight.

>>94430765
>Tomasi
We hate Tomasi all of a sudden?

>>94430782
Twitter isn't the same as professional output though.

>>94430794
He's always been mediocre. The only thing he can do well is the family shit so DC has him in a good place right now.

>>94430782
>twitter
fuck off social media whore, go suck zuckerbergs cock some more

>>94430794
>All of a sudden
When did we ever like him in the first place? It's just these incoming rebirth kids who've started this "Tomasi is a great writer" meme.

>>94430811
>>94430834

>The creators views don't matter.jpg

'no'

>>94430728
Her old stuff looks like trash.

>>94430833
>>94430837
He was consistently great on GLC.

>>94422133
came to post this my nigga

>>94430794
>We
Fuck off plebbit

>>94430866
Death of the author, only what's in the work actually matters.

If you don't want to give money to someone that's a different conversation, but it doesn't make sense to pretend like the output is going to have that when it hasn't so far. She has never been against sexy female characters.

>>94430935
I don't understand this sentiment. He made me drop GLC. Huge step down from Gibbons.

>>94430866
no, they don't. I read plenty of authors I disagree with politically and you should too. Or are alt-right people now against reading Orwell and Huxley? Or, as I assume, just against reading

>>94430935
Only if it was one of your early comic runs.

>>94430877
that is trash to you? I mean, it's not amazing, but it's certainly better than the Benes that posted here and being praised

>>94430991
>>94431023
>all of a sudden, everybody hates Tomasi's GLC run
The fuck? I remember it getting consistent praise back when it was coming out.

>>94430971

well in order to read books that you like, for starters then it becomes pirate vs supporting said book and why would I financially support someone that I disagree with?

You're still doing wrong anon, you just don't want to admit it and haven't looked in the mirror lately.

>>94431015

I will never financially support someone I disagree with, ever. I read all across the spectrum though, I love being informed which is how I know about her views in the first place.

>>94431034
Benes is trash too, /co/ has started liking him in the past few years because every creator is beib an obnoxious prude on the internet and all the stupid desexyfying tumblrs and shit while Benes unapologetically draws bitches in such a way the ass is always visible.

>>94431066
I said this here when it was coming out. Just got boring as shit really. The last good arc was the one with the new Star Sapphire girl and they only really used it for Kyle/Sora shipping drama. Pretty much the rest of the alien ensemble became irrelevant. I think I dropped it before BN even happened.

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>>94430759
She's not sex negative. She is a SJW though. Just read The Movement or all the tokens she's been collecting in Batgirl, Secret Six, etc.

>>94431079
So you don't own Watchmen?

>>94431097
>Benes is trash too
shh ... waifufags will hear you reading trash isn't always bad though. Sex sells and I someone just want to read something sexy.
But I agree, he isn't good

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>>94431113
Of course the joke here is that Ralph just thought that he (female) needed a hat to complete the look because everyone has to automatically be perfectly accepting, no identity-related conflict, see also Barbara's non-response to "I'm transgender."

>>94431079
You don't have to financially support people to read their work. Libraries exist. If you just pick it off the shelf and put it back they don't even have a way to track that you read it.

You don't have to like her as a person but the point is that you shouldn't spread stupid assumptions about her work based only on twitter. That's not real life.

>>94431097
Benes is lazy as fuck (that Huntress page is atrocious, he didn't even try to draw her actually upside down) and his mouths are ugly. I'll take him over some artists, but yeah he's not great even for cheesecake.

>>94431113
she's a SJW cause she likes the superior version? You alt-right faggots get so triggered you think everyone that doesn't agree with you is a SJW. Seven Samaria is clearly superior.

>>94431158
Paquette does sexy too, but he's actually good.

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>>94431186
i like Fred better tbqh
>>94431079
so you will spread lies? That's not just not buying their book that is harming their career. Which may be justified if they are really bad but use facts then, not "alternative facts"

>>94431193
The problem with the movement isbthat it's shit and that's shit because a lot of the characters are unlikeable.
They're unlikeable because gail is not as good as writing morally ambiguous characters as she likes to think.
Now that's a strong opinion to hold against the writer of critically acclaimed series Secret six, a series many view as a spiritual success to Ostrander's suicide squad, but here's my secret anon.
>I don't really like Secret Six that much in the first place.

>>94431113
>>94431160
My main point there was that there's no reason to think she'd dramatically change Zatanna when she has never done it before.

Fair enough though. I suppose people will draw the line in different places. I don't think simply including a different character is SJW especially when it is an OC rather than a retcon. When you have tons of interviews and shit and market your work only on that you become SJW to me. Morrison does similar stuff too and he's not SJW to me either.

>>94431230

She has views that are defined under umbrella of what 'social justice warriors' fight for, especially the trans stuff.

How am I spreading lies? Please explain.

>>94431164

I'm taking her literally at her word, that isn't an assumption. If you say something, I will hold you to it.

Acta non verba isn't the only way to define people.

>>94431124

No, I don't.

>>94431287
Morrison is actually closer to SJW than Gail.

Plus Dini had Zee's primary supporting character be a middle-aged guy magically transformed into a young, hot chick so it's not like weird gender shit and fetishes aren't already there.

>>94422705
Frank Cho should draw all the women.

>>94431230
>ebin "alternative facts" meme
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Alternative_facts_(law)

>>94431385

This anon knows whats up. Based outrageposter.

>>94431316
What word are you taking her by though that would suggest that she thinks Zatanna's costume should be changed?

You're not being consistent with your own statements now.

>>94431385
All the woman you mean.

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>>94422057
More Zatara when?

>>94431293
what an SJW ment 8 years ago and what one means now are completely different things. What someone says at a time has to be put in context of the setting. The far left AND the far right have swung these terms to such extremes that they don't have the same meaning as they once did. A Social Justice Warrior was a term like Feminist in the 60s-90s, a Feminist no longer means the same thing and a SJW doesn't mean the same thing as 8 years ago (fucking accellerating timeline, I'm stating to think Kurzwell is right in the singularity, and we will need computers to keep up with rapid social change). Morrison used to call himself a feminist, I'm not sure if he still does cause of the stigma now attached to it.

Simone believes that a trans person should still have equal rights, that is all. She doesn't champion that in all her works, she just writes what she likes to write. If she says stuff on twitter or whatever, that's fine, everyone has a right to free speech, and as far as I can tell, she has NEVER asked for censorship.

>>94431287
I think she does have a history of writing characters out of step of how they're usually portrayed.
Cheshire is a good example, most writers tend to forget her nuking a country but not Simone and it shows when it comes to Chesire and Lian. Their mother/daughter relationship is the one sympathetic thing about chesire and Gail actively shits on it.

>>94431364
Morrison is a "troll everyone" guy. All the sex and violence is still there in Heavy Metal.

>>94431564
I think it's smart to be concerned about characterization and plot mostly because it's been a while since she wrote anything good. Even new 52 SS wasn't great. I just don't think the problems would be SJW-styled.

Though Zatanna doesn't really have much that could be ignored honestly. Been a while since anyone used her much.

>>94431607
>liberals can't be about Sex and Violence
Ellis called

>>94431364
I think SJW implies some form of attempt at activism, or at least the belief that you should be preaching that stuff in your work. I don't think either of them does that.

I remember Morrison even being surprised when some interviewer asked him why Multiversity was so diverse as if he did it on purpose. He doesn't think on that level.

>>94431540

Okay that is a fair point. She hasn't specifically spoken anything in current line of thinking such as what other typical sjw's do. You're correct on that. I suppose I did use a fair bit of association bias in my thoughts.

>>94431443

I never said anything about her costume anon, you're just confused in how many different anon's you're talking to, i'm not the original guy that started the convo. I jumped in half way with my own point.

>>94431564
To be fair, what Cheshire did really shouldn't have been glossed over to begin with.

Y'all are forgetting that Simone is the one that started the "women in refrigerators" nonsense.

>>94431564
And then you have Dove from her last run on Birds of Prey >>94430706. Here Gail wrote Dawn Granger as a naive ingénue but the Kesel's Dawn was assertive, Quick-witted, and most importantly as an astute fighter while Hail had her lose to her pet OC edgelord villain.

>>94431768
Definitely her biggest mistake but I think her intent of it was that creators should use female cast more substantially. I don't think she ever really played hand-off with violence when it came to them at least in her actual works.

>>94431768

I might need to retract my fair point statement. >>94431727

if she started this. Need to do some more research, maybe she is sjw I thought of her as.

>>94431768

>implying it wasn't a fair critique of an overused trope

>>94431750
We should gloss over it, it was a dumb move. Chesire nuked a country and that should be a serious thing but it was never treated with the gravitas it deserved.
We know Chesire is a killer, we know she's crazy, we don't need her to nuke a country because that's a bit much and should make her the biggest villain of the time.

>>94431727
>Okay that is a fair point
uh..words you never heard on 4chan for 400 Alex. No seriously, maybe once a month I see someone changing their opinion on something (or view)

>>94431768
Maybe she read a lot of Alan Moore, and in that case, she is right. Alan Moore is an amazing writer, but his reliance on raping women is stupid and after a few stories it becomes tiresome and not interesting at all. He needs to move on

>>94431727
>I never said anything about her costume anon, you're just confused in how many different anon's you're talking to, i'm not the original guy that started the convo. I jumped in half way with my own point.

Then I don't know what we're arguing about.

My only point is that she really hasn't de-sexxed any characters known for it and wouldn't with Zatanna. I guess suggesting it probably was an attempt to derail conversation like we've ended up though.

>>94431667
Ellis is one of the old ones, hasn't quite completely bought into the current thinking trends.

>>94431890

https://burrunjor.com/2017/02/26/why-women-in-refrigerators-is-nonsense/

whoever wrote this has an interesting point, though I wish he used more citations.

I think character death fueling other major characters in male led series could be an overused idea but they're not focusing on female led series that do the same thing and he brings up Charmed and Xena, which he is right about, Xena is spurred to action many times with male death. Same with gabrielle. Her husband is killed by callisto.

Charmed women all lost males to their various battles.

I think it's more that they focus on male led series because i'm not even sure why, but I'm guessing it has something to do with comics being male dominated, so male point of view and male thinking are going to dominate entire character histories, so minorities and women are going to think very differently about something that never really involved them for the most part. So I think the critique is unfair in that certain thinking is just different based on time it was created in and who created it.

>>94431890
If it was fair, it would have been gender neutral, but it wasn't. She was tunnel visioned in her complaint.

>>94431607
Yeah, but if you take a look at Seven Soldiers and Final Crisis you'll see a huge amount of sex negativity.

>>94431687
Armchair activism still counts though. His making Steve Trevor black in Earth One was done on purpose.

>>94431890
It wasn't valid because it wasn't a general critique but marketed as a women's issue. Secondary characters have been used for cheap drama for thousands of years. The cheapest drama is gained by killing off your protagonist's love interest, which are mostly female when your protagonists are mostly male as a result of young boys being your intended audience for decades.

btw god is sexist because he turned Lot's wife into a salt pillar

>>94432041
>Armchair activism still counts though. His making Steve Trevor black in Earth One was done on purpose.

On purpose for a cheap chains joke and some weird visual contrast thing that is probably racism in some way when it comes down to it. It wasn't about giving WW a black love interest or really anything socially related at all.

>>94431987
it's cause it was an issue in times that were pre-2000s. It's mostly balanced out now. Look at the recent plot device deaths. Bruce Banner, Cyclops, Iron Man, Black Widow.

Only Widow was a female, the others were male. But in the past, I mean 60s and 70s especially but it took growing time in the 80s and 90s, it was usually a female that died just to make the male act. Hell, even Deadpool didn't need it. Ajax just needed to say "hey Deadpool, meet me here" and he would have gone. Kidnapping his girlfriend who hadn't done anything with him was a silly motivation and didn't need to be there. I think it worked in that film cause they really played up the romance a lot, but the motivation was kinda lame.

on the other hand, I have seen complaints about killing Black Widow cause "she's the most popular female character in Marvel". She has never been popular, only a good side character, and who cares, many have died in this arc

>>94431993
The entire complaint was that female characters get killed or suffer trauma to motivate or facilitate character development of male characters disproportionately.

>>94432103

The entire history of humanity is figuratively based on that idea. Hell large portions of male population get out of bed because of that idea. That's like trying to conflate a negative idea based on a pertinent thing that needs to exist in reality or do these people live in some utopian fantasy where might doesn't make right?

>>94432103
Because most heroes are male.

>>94432057
The problem is that skewed ratios. More women were being killed maimed or raped to serve as fuel for Male character's drama.

>>94432200

>>94432174

>>94432174
Which is kinda the problem. Women are victim men are heroes.

>>94432103
so? no one on 4chan is a good political advocate for anything. She said something on her mind and cause she's fairly well known it got traction. She's not a politician and keeps politics out of her books cause she isn't good at it, at least I presume. She pointed out an big problem with comic tropes and just failed the address it in the widest scope, instead she used a magnifying glass to a specific aspect. This is commonly done to set up an arguement. She did the 1, 2 punch but failed on the 3rd, extrapolation.

That is fine, plenty of comicbook workers have done the same. Addressing there is a problem, giving an example and failing to show the bigger context

>>94432174
>>94432219
EXCEPT this shit was happening to female superheroes like Black Canary and Katma Tui and Batgirl.

>>94432081
If you read his interviews about making Steve black it sounds like a sex thing, to be honest. Personally I believe it was Grant doing his usual hype man stuff for what was essentially a Gotcha! joke without realizing that it was a pretty poor creative move on multiple levels.

>>94432041
How was it sex negative?
Morrison did seem like a guy who gapped to comic book cheesecake from his Flex Mentallo.

>>94432226
Go back in time to the 1940s and get little girls to buy superhero comics en masse, or change human biology so women are more attracted to dangerous, violent activities like vigilantism. One or both. Also that's not the "problem" Simone was pointing out. She had argued that before but was going for something different with the fridge stuff.

>>94432296
Yeah I wish he hadn't done it because it only really works for like one volume. Though I guess originally when he was coming up with this it wasn't supposed to be part of Earth One anyway so maybe it wouldn't have mattered much.

A little surprised they didn't make him change it just to match the movie coming out, but I guess Grant is uneditable anyway.

>>94432345

I see their point but I'll never agree with censorship no matter how an idea is overused.

If you have a problem with women losing agency in male created, male driven/led series, make your own. Stop telling other people what to do.

>>94432041
>if you take a look at Seven Soldiers and Final Crisis you'll see a huge amount of sex negativity
MAYBE both good and bad references and analogies to sex, but Morrison doesn't strike me as a prude.

You guys are looking at this wrong.
She just had the urge to write Zatanna. So she wrote it.

>>94432397
holy fuck anon, she has NEVER been pro censorship. She was just trying to encourage writers to think of new plots instead of tired old ones. That is the COMPLETE OPPOSITE. She is not against fridging if it works with the story, but very often it doesn't need to be there.

A person wanting the industry to move to more creative story writing is now censorship? what a world we live in.

>>94432472

by forcing people to change their ideas, it's a form of censorship. period.

by trying to coerce people into writing something that you agree with, it is a form of censorship.

If their ideas are working/selling, why change it?

>>94422057
Yanick Paquette. His attention to detail is great and considering his swamp thing work, I think his art would be great for the weirder aspects of magic.

>>94432510
You're arguing that people should censor their opinions now.

Even if it's stupid and wrong writing a blog to criticize something is not censorship.

>>94432472

to give you an example, when you use your voice, an established voice as a bully pulpit to coerce an industry to 'change', progressivism, and the other way was working for the majority but not you, a woman. What would you call that?

Especially if you don't want to be labeled a mysognist or whatever liberal dogwhistle they can shame you with.

>>94432041
The stuff I recall from Final Crisis was Dr. Light commenting that superheroines are "asking for it" in their costumes (something a slime like him would say), a metajoke about how evil Mary Marvel was being controlled by a leering old man, and Libra saying he'd let Luthor be the first in the rape line for Supergirl (a line a sjw would never write).

>>94431768
She's also came out against the people who use this term to complain whenever something bad happens to a female character.

>>94432530
Can he keep to a schedule? WWEO looked good but his Nightwing Rebirth issue was trash.

>>94432548

I think you need help with your reading comprehension if you think anything I said/linked to is pro-censorship.

You still have ability to critique what the industry is doing. Nobody is taking aware her right to free speech.

Not changing is not censorship.

>>94432510
>forcing people
she didn't do it, and she didn't coerce people. she suggested people expand their writing ideas.

Why change? Cause if you write the same stories for 2 decades you may as well retire. This is how many authors stop selling, cause they no longer have anything interesting to say.

I'm sorry, but goddamn you are dumb. You have no idea on how censorship, coercion and encouragement are different, you don't even seem to know the definition of these words. I suggest you start reading some books, and comicbooks before you start bitching like a /pol/tard

>>94432603
She did not force or pressure for any change. All she did was write about her opinion. It was up to others to decide if they agreed with her and how they would react.

>>94432564
You might be too young to remember, but this wasn't the social media era. You could say something was flawed without meaning the person who created it was bad and should be blacklisted. Shit, we didn't know how good we had it.

>>94432636

the very post you linked to said "if it is selling/why change it"

It immediately invalidates your post. If they keep using an idea and it works, it works for reasons beyond it being stale thing some woman is tired of seeing in comics.

It's a useful psychological motivator for males which makes them like the story. Same reason stories about families will always be told. There is biological components attached to said 'trope'

Also to your attempted insult, I qualified what I said before even finishing my own post, which you linked but ignored but yeah that makes me dumb, and not like you trying to cherrypick and defend this cunt, at all.

>>94430971
>Death of the author
i don't think you know what that means.

>>94432696

Nice hyperbole. I never suggested she should be blacklisted.

>>94432715
>"if it is selling/why change it"
because an artistic medium has to grow or it dies. Period.

>>94432664

and the entire fucking argument from other side is she isn't an 'SJW' but she holds opinions that they do.

>>94432740
Maybe you should pay attention to your own posts because you're the one who suggested that there would be some professional backlash just because she wrote a blog >>94432564

>>94424881

I hated her Batgirl but loved Clean Room. If that Simone was writing her I'd support it.

>>94432757

No it doesn't. The only real change if you want to call it that is changing the variables enough that you don't recognize it anymore. Timothy Zahn calls it meat grinder.

A lot of the ideas you consume in your media haven't changed for thousands of years, which is why certain stories are retold over and over again and will be for thousands of years.

The names change but underlying story is the same, you just lack the ability to attach the string back far enough to say Epic of Gilgamesh. Your inability to make associations between fictions.

Art can do whatever the fuck it wants regardless of what you say. It can literally be shit on a canvas.

>>94432765
No the argument at this point is whether Simone is pro-censorship and she's clearly not outside of your delusions.

>>94432845
it tells the stories in new WAYS. which is EXACTLY what Simone is talking about. We can tell the hero stories a millions times, and we have, what changes is HOW it's told. Simone is just saying to try new ways to tell it.

>>94432799

I'd call that pointing out and labeling her for what she is. If there is a societal impact to her career, that is just a byproduct for the opinion she holds. I never suggested even implicitly that there should be a boycott, merely that I did not want her writing zatanna.

She tried to influence people with her established position, and it looks like attempted 'censorship' of a kind. Not that it's a government mandated thing but I'm always wary of individual agendas, especially by those anons that think they know what's best for everyone else.

>>94432801
I don't think she liked her Batgirl either.

>>94432345
>implying women are not hardwired to be attracted to danger and violence.
There's a reason why serial killer and rapists get love letters in prison.

>>94432908
>and it looks like attempted 'censorship' of a kind

She was not attempting censorship just by stating her opinion.

>>94432894

You're getting into the weeds and conflating points.

If a trope is overused, would you say there is a reason for that?

>>94432530
I'd be down with this. Dude's art is incredible and he's very good at depicting weirder things and with creative paneling.

>>94432945
Laziness.

>>94432875

It may seem wrong to you but not everyone agrees with 'change'

>>94432908
you clearly don't understand what the definition of censorship is. Go read a dictionary before you continue this conversation

>>94432967

So something that is used a lot, is laziness, and if they're still using it, it must sell, correct?

Otherwise they wouldn't get hired, right?

>>94428052
And death, rape and mayhem, won't say it's not entertaining tough.

>>94432977

Sure thing bud, because you know what's best for me.

>>94432971
It's not about agreeing with change. Saying you want change is not censorship.

>>94432991
It sells but it also limits the number of female fans.

>>94433029
literacy is usually good, try it out.

>>94433056

And you have a problem with that? Or you think she has a problem with that?

>>94433056
this I would disagree with, everyone dislikes bad writing not just females

>>94432991
This is also a flawed argument even if your point is correct. Most people in comic get hired because of cronyism not sales. They take their friends and them put them on titles that sell well.

It's not really a normal capitalistic market.

>>94433138
this is true. If comic book makers like another one, they prop them up. This is why Marvel was promoting The Visions so heavily and went so far as to give away issues (they are making their money back with the deluxe editions). But the creators make other creators big or they just don't give them a chance.

>>94433086
Yeah but when your most popular female characters like black canary get tortured and becomes infertile do you think female fans connect with that?

>>94424891
Magic, lad
Makes for some of the best artwork, especially for fights, and generally has a lot of untapped potential in terms of villains and Stories.

>>94433291
I don't see why they wouldn't.

>>94433291
depends on if this is done to further her character or anothers. Grell did it ok, the focus in his book was Green Arrow, but the book had a heavy focus on Black Canary too. And when she finally got over that trama, HOLY SHIT THAT WAS AMAZING! She walks into their apartment and Ollie sees her beat to shit, he wants to run to her but really freezes up cause she is smiling. She says she finally feels ok with herself again, she is able to function again. And then they fuck.

God damn I love that story. Did Simone ever use that story as an example of fridging? If she did her arguement would be less worthy, but I don't think she did.

>>94433362
Because there's no payoff for the characters.

>>94434340
These stories never end. If a character is popular, any afflictions they receive will be overcome either through in-universe magic or reboots.

>>94431894
The problem is editorial allowing it in the first place. You can't let a character pass a moral event horizon and just expect that everyone will forget about it.

>>94430427
>Hal Jordan
Elaborate

>>94435635
When Hal Jordan was the Spectre his feminine aspect would manifest.

>>94435427
A lot of people did though.

>>94432908
>She tried to influence people with her established position

She hadn't written a single comic book when she started that page. She was just a fan with an opinion that a certain trope was lazy writing.

You don't know what you're talking about and you're pushing back against something that isn't even real.

>>94435865
She used that article to spring herself into the industry.

>>94422057
Is she gonna make Zatanna find religion then run around casting spells by saying bible verses in reverse?

>>94435834
Sounds hot.

>>94422705
I seen Legoman do more variation in body and faces then Frank Cho

I feel like people are forgetting Gail headed the brief sjw reboot of Red Sonja, Vampirella, and deadpool over at dynamite that they quickly reverted from after 6 issues.

>>94436279
I think she herself tries to forget too.

>>94436279
Wasn't Vampirella Kate Leth?
>Deadpool over at Dynamite
What?

Gail's Red Sonja wasn't the one out of the chainmail bikini either IIRC.

>>94436012
Even if that was her intention, your argument still doesn't make any sense. She had no established position at the time, she was a complete nobody.

Having opinions is not censorship. Disagreement is not censorship. I mean, what the fuck are you even trying to say here?

I keep wondereing, why Gail Simone decided to ressurect Ice, of all the characters in the first place.
Does anyone knows the reason?

>>94422057
So who'd be gay? I thought Simone refuses to write comics without LGBT characters.
Tbh I'd be fine with like, lowkey bisexual Zatanna, I guess. Which also sounds like a better solution that adding Token LGBT Supporting Cast Member like Alysia Yeoh.

>>94437012
Obviously Misty would be gay. And Klarion is clearly gay.

>>94422090
Superheroes are the reason comics still exist.

>>94437012
Tomb Raider must have been awkward job.

Crystal Dynamics nuked that possibility from space.

Lara/Sam Relationship was cut from the game setups

>>94437012
>So who'd be gay?
You for writing this kind of weak shit.

Also, some less-gay anon would be so kindly to give more Gail Simone´ Secret Six pages? Thank you kindly

>>94436732
Yeah, and she used that article to become somebody. The comic industry is full of cowering, weak men who will bend to the will of a loud woman calling them a bunch of sexists.

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>>94438316
Sure bud

>>94422057
she'd probably just change her costume

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>>94438671

>>94438671
I wonder if Simone would have Black Alice show up in her Zatanna book.

>>94436689
It was supposed to say Dejah thoris. Stupid phone, but yeah Let wrote Vampirella but Gail headed the choice in picking her I believe.

>>94422057

Simone hasn't written a good comic since the initial Secret Six run.

Not that the rest of DC's post-Flashpoint output is stellar or anything, but I don't have high hopes.