So what's the significance of this scene, exactly. Never

>>94387824
>So what's the significance of this scene, exactly.

*So what's the significance of this scene, exactly?

>>94387824
Read the comic arc for this page and find out.

>>94387824
read the whole arc and you will find out

>>94387824

It's from an old school arc. There's better Spidey moments out there

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>>94387824
It's the build up in the story, the panels on the pages actually grow as his strength builds to push off the weight culminating in a full splash page when he's free.

How the scene is told by Ditko's visuals is more important than " Spider-Man lifted a heavy weight"

>>94387824
Read the entire Ditko/Lee run of ASM up to this scene and find out.

>>94387824
>Why do things not make sense out of context
Shit bro I don't know.

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It's a subtle way of showing his transformation from a teenager into a man.

>>94387824
Serious question: Do you have literal autism?

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>>94387899
>All that fucking monologue

>>94388041
>Stan Lee writes to much.

Wow, you don't say.
Shit, call the press, we need to tell people ASAP.

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https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0ivvEgkWDGo

>>94388041
>not appreciating the silver age style in its context

I used to think like you. But I prefer this to Slott's horrible garbage any day.

>>94387824
The way Ditko draws it and how he gets to much expressiveness out of a character wearing a mask. You could read the whole part with th weight without any word or thought bubbles and understand the scene despite never seeing a face

>>94387824
That moment of vulnerability and doubt where he thinks maybe this is what he deserves, which he overcomes by remembering all the people who care about him and depend on him that don't deserve to lose him

>>94388153

Not him, but I can deal with it for certain stories. It gets to be way too much though.

>>94388187
Ditko also makes clever use out of angles. The masks's eyepieces don't actually change in size, but it looks like they do due to perspective and through that Ditko makes an expressionless face more expressive than 90% of modern comic art.

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>>94387824

Spidey is exhausted and about to give up. Then he remembers Aunt May's life is at stake and he sums up the strength to do what even he thought was impossible. It's an iconic scene of triumph that has served to exemplify the best appeal of Spider-Man, he never gives up when people are counting on him.

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>>94388142
>mfw how hyped Stan sounds just talking about the process
its going to be devastating when hes gone

>>94388335
Even if he fucked Jack Kirby's wife and took credit for more ideas than he had right to, you know he really loved this stuff.

https://youtu.be/3gwDnhMO8is?t=3062

go to 51 minutes in

>>94387824
Prior to this, superheroes would essentially go

>"This thing is heavy, I need to summon my strength to move it!"
>two panels later
>"Got it!"

Ditko stretched it out for several pages, something that just wasn't don't at the time. It's commonplace now, but at the time it was groundbreaking.

>>94388390
>Even if he fucked Jack Kirby's wife
Stan never fucked her, he just took the credit for Jack's work like always

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>>94388440
Stan took credit for fucking Kirby's wife?

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>>94388390
Plus, at the end of the day, he isn't Bob Kane.

>>94388440
>>94388390
This meme needs to die.

He and Kirby both contributed, there wouldn't be a Marvel with just Kirby's work, he needed Lee as much as Lee needed Kirby.

"Stan Lee took all the credit" is bullshit perpetrated by proto-hipster comic shop employees and Kirby's greedy kids.

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>>94388497
Bill Finger really got fingered.

I felt it was pretty obvious, but whatever, I'll spoon feed you. It shows /why/ Peter is Spider-Man and where his true motives lie. He is playing in the ground as water beings to poor, soon he'll drown and suffocate and the fucked up thing is that he accepts his fate. He just lays in the water perfectly fine with the idea that he'll just drawn to death and that would be the end of it. But then he remembers why he came, to get the life saving medication his Aunt needs. Realizing this, he taps into unfound strength, lifted the object that was pinning him to the ground because he values his loved ones.

>>94388485
No it's just a joke to say when people bring up the " Stan fucked Jack's wife" joke.

It's weird that people still repeat a bit from G4 of all places

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xM8zB6zm860

What's the name of this story?
Also what are some other spiderman comics to read? I know a lot about spiderman due to other forms of media but have never read his comics. I've always seen people saying all his stories post 2000s are garbage so I don't want to buy the wrong one

>>94388568
"if this be my destiny" or "the final chapter" it is the end of a 3 book arc and I think Ditko only worked on 5 more issues after this one

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>>94388390
>And took credit for more ideas than he had right to

Stan never really took credit. I can't think of a single instance in the past 30 years were he ever referred to himself as anything but CO creator.

It's not untrue that he GOT credit for more than he was responsible for but that was more to him actually having a shred of charisma that just wasn't common in comic creators back then, or even now really. Ditko was a nutty bitter recluse and Jack I hear was a cool dude but very much the kind of guy you had to really warm up too.

>>94388568
The Final Chapter, Vol 1 #33. Story arc starts in #31.

>that part where he beats the shit out of ock because his aunt's life is in danger.

>>94388568
Everything pre-Clone Saga and most things pre-OMD are pretty good. Entry level is Spider-Man Blue

>>94388593
He's credited up to 40, but JR/Stan have said they had Romita ghosting for a few issues.

Either way, the issues after were basically filler anyway. Final Chapter is the last story he cared about.

>>94388153
I appreciate silver age art, but 90% of silver age exposition is awful and just gets in the way of fantastic art. IE in that exact scene

>>94388513
>he needed Lee

For promotion sure, for creativity fuck no. All you need to do is look at work Lee did without a storyteller like Kirby or Diko to see how weak his creativity really was. His Silver Surfer is the ultimate example, it's just empty ramblings that act like they're meaningful and that was a comic Lee genuinely felt passionate about.

Stan is the ultimate hype man, has more charisma than anyone in the industry(to this day no less), and comics would be for the whole worse off without him in history, but he was a bushiness man not an artist.

>>94388604
If I remember my Marvel history correctly, Lee based The Thing off of Kirby: a gruff asshole who was hard to get to know but once you broke through was one of the most loyal, honest guys you'd ever meet.

Also they both always chomped cigars and ran with Jewish street gangs in their youth.

>>94388672
Which is kinda fitting that his last Spiderman story is the one people like Gaiman and Moore say is the best super hero comic ever created

>>94388673

maybe but modern decompression is an extreme I dislike even more. Especially when it's just mediocre art copy pasted

>>94388672
Romita Sr. is also one hell of an artist. Ditko had his strengths, but he made the women look like horses, and in a comic that had a lot to do with Peter's love life, they really needed Romita to make Gwen and MJ into the beauties we'd know them as from then on.

>>94388719
Source on that? Not that I don't believe it but I'd like to see what guys like that say about such a beloved story that's more mainstream than their usual stable.

>>94388803
It's in the BBC Finding Ditko documentary. It should all be up on YouTube

>>94388041

The same scene today would use caption boxes instead and put this dialogue in his inner monologue. Just the way the medium has evolved.

>>94388568
Amazing Fantasy 15 and Amazing Spider-Man 1-33 (the core Ditko run) is wordy but good. After that it really comes down to just picking up issues and checking for yourself. Spider-Man is a lot like a soap opera (or was); things just continue through Peter's life, you can pretty much jump in wherever, there's important events but no mandatory reading, etc.

I'd say go through ASM until you get sick of it and then skip ahead to around Secret Wars if you burn out before 1984. Key writers people tend to like on Spidey include Gerry Conway, Peter David, DeMatteis, J M Strazynski, Michelinie, and Kurt Busiek. Be sure to pick up side stuff that looks unique, as that tends to be where some of the real good stuff is. Spider-Man 2099, Untold Tales, Spider-Man Blue, Scarlet Spider, etc.

>>94387824
He's lifting way outside of his weight-class.

>>94388803

see
>>94388852
>>94388424

Gaiman flat out says it is the best comicbook story ever written and if that isn't true then it is top 3. Moore goes from spending the entire interview talking shit about Ditko to like his entire body language changing and he starts going on about how the story defines the medium and what you can do with it.

>>94388899

I like speech balloons more than text boxes. Feel more personal.

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>>94388709
You remember correctly. The Thing was almost 100% Jack.

>>94388773
I just hate how, soon after the marriage, everyone but Buscema stopped even referencing his design for Mary Jane. Her high cheek bones and sharp eyes disappeared, her tits suddenly swelled in size, etc. It's awful.

>>94389094
Young Jack Kirby is my Jewish aesthetic goals

>>94388424
Not what I expected Alan Moore to sound like

>>94388497
People keep saying this but at least Bob Kane died. Lee has spent all these years refusing to give fair credit to his collaborators and staying filthy rich because of it.

>>94388604
>Stan never really took credit. I can't think of a single instance in the past 30 years were he ever referred to himself as anything but CO creator.

Find me any one time in history where Stan Lee has said the words "Steve Ditko co-created Spider-Man".

Because I can find a dozen examples of him saying "I created Spider-Man" or giving his wife credit.

>>94389246

See>>94388424

He says he will say Steve Ditko co created spiderman but he doesn't personally believe it

>>94387824
I don't think you really get it. One of the points of this scene is that yes, he's strong, but not THAT strong. Superman would have lifted that without effort. Spider-Man is a moment of weakness because his entire life is crushing him literally and metaphorically, the ghost of his failure is chasing him and he's about to let his Aunt die, and he comes out victorious after a titanic struggle for his life. It's an intense an emotional moment that epitomizes everything the character stands for. His tragedy and his pathos.

>>94388424

>the subtle changes in the panel shapes

so good

>>94389207
If you're going to be short, wide, and Neanderthalic looking, that's the way to do it. You can easily see him running with gangs, messing people up if they started shit, looking like he could break you even when he's wearing a suit and tie.

>>94387824
cause he's thinking about his aunt or something while lifting it

>>94389246
>Find me any one time in history where Stan Lee has said the words "Steve Ditko co-created Spider-Man".

Why should I have too? Every movie, every comic, every product that has a credit on it lists Ditko as co creator

>>94388424
It's simply that acknowledging Steve as a factual co-creator would entitle him to rights. Stan knows Steve counts just as much, but refuses to sacrifice his money to acknowledge it.

>>94389364
True story: there was once this mob guy who used to run a scam "towel service" that was essentially just a shakedown. You'd subscribe, never get the towels, and of you tried to unsubscribe, they'd come around and beat you up, fuck up your atore, etc.

They tried this with Marvel and Kirby whooped the guy's ass for him and told him to never come back. They didn't.

>>94389246
To be fair to Stan, that's not his ego, that's him saying what company wants him to say. Lee's highest position at Marvel was publisher, so he was only ever responsible for what made it to print.

What forced Kirby out was Marvel trying to get him to sign away any legal claim to his co-creations because they were afraid of a changing copyright law that would allow sellers to terminate the contract of sale after a set period of time and get back ownership.

A couple of years ago the time limit was finally up and his family tired to file for it and Disney sued them, claiming that as work for hire Kirby never sold his ideas because he never owned them. It was about to hit the Supreme Court before The Mouse settled for an undisclosed amount. If they lost it could've been legal precedent for every former contracted worker to get back their characters.

>>94389482
>staunch randian objectivist fucked over by a business decision

I appreciate the irony

>>94389482
>but refuses to sacrifice his money to acknowledge it.


That's on Ditko for not stepping up. All Stan can do is say he co created Spidey. It's not on him to get Steve to come out of hiding. If he wants to law low and not collect that's his own business

>>94389246
Watching that video, when they talk about the part OP asked about, Stan says "This was all Steve's idea".

>>94389490
As beloved as these characters are, people forget that they were created as work for hire. For every Spider-man, there's ten Aquarians out there.

If I get hired by Disney to make a character up, he's not my character; he's Disney's. Kirby, Ditko, et al knew what they were signed up for.

>>94389287
>>94389529
>He says he will say Steve Ditko co created spiderman but he doesn't personally believe it

It's worse than that, he'll say that he "considers" Ditko to have co-created Spidey but for all the money he'd lose out on, he will never flat-out admit it like he should.

>>94389434
>Every movie, every comic, every product that has a credit on it lists Ditko as co creator

Am I being trolled or are you legit trying to argue something you don't know about?

>>94389490
True, but Lee was insistent that he was solely responsible for the success and creation of all these extremely popular characters even before the legal battles.

>>94389516
Steve's kind of stupid like this, yes.

>>94389528
I'm not blaming Stan, just saying that it clearly comes from finance and not a feeling of superiority. Why should he randomly relinquish part of his hold on Marvel to a guy who refuses to actually make a fuss about it?

Now, the Kirby situation...

>>94388513
>there wouldn't be a Marvel with just Kirby's work
Funny how when Kirby went to DC and did New Gods (Without Lee!), there was zero differences between that and his Marvel work...

>>94389487
I love that Marvel Comics didn't need security, they had Kirby around to fuck up anyone who tried something.

I recall once a bunch of neo-Nazis were pissed off at him for making Hydra and Nazi bad guys, and came to the Marvel lobby looking for a fight.

They called up threatening him, Kirby said "I'll be right down", rolled up his sleeves, and when he got down to the lobby, they had fled.

>>94389589
That doesn't mean you shouldn't get royalties when they make billions in merch money.

>>94389589
>people forget
The average person going to see the movie does not care.

You tell them Stan Lee didn't make up something and it blows their mind.

> knew what they were signed up for.
No one knew that one day characters in silly costumes on newsprint would be a billion dollar film franchise. The question of royalties gets brought up, especially for the older contracts. By the time Liefeld came around you got a pretty good deal on outside media appearances.

Kirby probably made more money working on the 60's Fantastic Four cartoon than he got paid for his part in the source material, if he got paid at all.

>>94388424
Wow, at the end, they show the location of Ditko's Manhattan studio. Is he still working there? If a bunch of fangirls showed up begging for an audience, would he let us in and shake our hands?

>>94389732
>I recall once a bunch of neo-Nazis

Those where just regular Nazis, the neo thing is more recent

>>94389707
Honestly the quality of his 70's work including his return to Marvel is better than most of his Silver Age output.

>>94389828
Hahaha, old school Nazis probably didn't want to be associated with neo-Nazis in the same way neo-Nazis don't want to be associated with the alt-right.

>>94387824
It's about how it's told, not what it's telling.

>>94389707
Series like Fourth World and The Demon have more bearable dialogue than any comic Stan Lee ever "wrote".

>>94387824
>What made Spidey lifting a heavy thing so different & revolutionary?

Because it was the first time anyone had done it.

When a trope gets stale, the original version of the trope will look stale, too.

>>94389732
Isn't there a story about Kirby almost throwing someone out of a window?

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>>94389919
>When a trope gets stale, the original version of the trope will look stale, too

Poor Valerian

>>94389941
I think that was back when he worked for Will Eisner and some guys came around selling "protection"

>>94389082

Me too. I think the point is he's trying to motivate himself, so he'd be talking aloud.

>>94389971
Same reason why no one gives a shit about John Carter or Tarzan

>>94389941
I wouldn't be surprised. He was a gangbanger as a teenager, he wasn't afraid of a scrap.

>>94389816
I think he's still there. It's not really hidden. No clue if he'd meet anyone who came knocking though. He takes time to answer fanmail but he might value his privacy too much to meet face to face.

He probably doesn't care if you like Spider-Man or Dr. Strange though. Hopefully you're a bunch of Mr. A fangirls.

>>94389971
bravo george.

>>94390009
Tarzan did fine as an animated movie, the problem now is people have to examine it and complain about race.

>>94390055
I've read Mr. A, does that count?

Gimme some obscure Ditko works, I'll read up before we go out there.

>>94389971
Is Lucas a hack?

>>94389246
>Lee has spent all these years refusing to give fair credit to his collaborators and staying filthy rich because of it.

But he hasn't, and really Stan isn't rich through just residuals and the stories he wrote, not directly at least. Yeah, people pay him money for being the guy who co-created all these characters, but they're paying him to talk, to make appearances give his input, etc. I'm sure he makes more money being a brand ambassador for MArvel than he does for creating spider-man.

Theoretically Jack and Steve could've been in the same position, but Steve is an introvert and Jack was always in his work. Stan got rich being a businessman and marketer, not a creator.

>>94390156
Are the Wikowski trannies a hack? Cause they stole the matrix from Morrison who stole it from someone else.

>>94390230
>Are the Wikowski trannies a hack?
Yeah, they are. And I enjoyed The Matrix, I haven't seen any of the sequels.

>>94390156
Nah a whole generation of science fiction fans just got their hands on European science fiction comics in the 70's

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=viaDGF5TI6c

>>94387824

A big part of the appeal of this scene, that hasn't really been mentioned yet, is that the power levels were way more consistent and toned down back then. Spidey was pretty strong, he could lift stuff, but he wasn't throwing buses over sky scrapers or anything like that. Now lazy writers just escalate power levels like it's nothing whenever they need an easy out, and then these stay raised because "muh cannon".
But this was before that, this was just a young guy who was pretty strong but known more for his agility, webbing and ability to climb things having to lift a massive amount of weight. Just a guy tapping in to a reserve of strength through sheer force of will. No magic Spider Totem powers from the past, no bullshit.

>>94390209

he's basically like a mascot. A face that makes the company feel more human.

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>>94389971

This is like John Carter all over again

>>94389246
Bob Kane did jack shit though. He contributed the worst aspects of Batman, and only actually worked on the comics for a short time before hiring actual artists to ghostdraw for him.

Stan Lee was integral to the success of Marvel, and at least he actually worked on the comics, even if it was mostly just dialogue.

>>94387854
>>>/mlp/30643254

>>94388440
10/10

>>94388440
Kek

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>>94388041
>Benis detected

>>94389971
>a flying saucer
>a girl in skimpy clothes
>a guy stuck in something
>a guy with a cool mask
>an ugly guy
>a jew

The only one that's close is the third one but you aren't going to get mad at Jurassic Park for having insects stuck in amber

>>94389816
>Is he still working there?
Yep. Still goes in 9-5 and draws comics. Yes, that's right, Ditko is still making new comics, but they never get talked about because only like 500 people actually still buy his comics.

>would he let us in and shake our hands?
Probably not. The man is a recluse. That this guy was able to sit down with him at all is nothing short of amazing.

>>94391317
That's what he's been for 55 years, and being that face was what made Marvel popular in the first place.

>>94387996
Glad they undid that. Peter is way better as a single struggling teenager. Makes him more relatable.

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>>94388424
>that spiderman 1 score in the background

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>>94388313
>It's an iconic scene of triumph that has served to exemplify the best appeal of Spider-Man, he never gives up when people are counting on him.
It's an iconic scene that presages that Spider-Man will be stuck looking out for his feeble, half-dead granny-aunt for the entirety of the young reader's natural life.