>tfw not even /our guy/ micheal keaton could save it >tfw

>>94181006
It was a glib facsimile

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>>94181006
>What would you change?
I would bring back Raimi and Tobey. Rami is the only person who understands Spider-man

>>94181115
Seriously this fight shits all over anything in homecoming.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hfSz0bQzZuM

>that tension
>those god-tier camera angles
>that dialogue
>actually feared for Peter's life first time watching this

the MCU just can't produce this kind of tension

>>94181115
>Tobey
Tobey's too old for the part. Besides, he's a "legitimate actorrrrr" now and wouldn't be caught dead in the Spidey suit.

>>94181006
Too much diversity. They made Mary Jane Watson black. And they made Ned Leeds into Ganke. And they made Flash into a skinny short Guatemalan.

/thread

>>94181115
Then how come Spider-Man only quipped once per movie? I get that /co/ hates quips now, but isn't that kinda half of Spider-Man's dialogue?

>>94181160
>Tobey's too old
And who is this a bad thing? Adult Peter >>>>> teen peter.

>>94181257
Because it'd be really weird watching a 42-year-old acting the way Raimi's Peter does. It was already weird when he was 30.

>>94181247
The quips, while important, are not part of the core of the character.

>>94181247
Quips in MCU movies just feel forced for some reason. I don't get that vibe when I read them.

>>94181006
Y'all are a bunch of contrarians. It was a great movie, the humor was on point, they managed to really get that work/life balance problem Peter has, they had a great showing of BOTH being a young kid that makes mistakes and a determined hero who does the right thing even when it's not convenient.

[Spoiler] And I really think he had the best jokes of the three movie spidermen. Tom Holland had a knack for it. [/spoiler]

Spider-Man 2 > Spider-Man 1 > Amazing Spider-Man 1 > Spider-Man 3 > Spider-Man Homecoming > Amazing Spider-Man 2

>>94181363
>Y'all
Fuck off, moron

>>94181363
>they managed to really get that work/life balance problem Peter has
MCU shills have no brain

>>94181006
Remove it.
Spiderman is a worthless superhero.

too much Iron Man

>>94181313
But that's not all he got rid of.

Raimi got rid of a lot of major aspects of Peter's character to accommodate his vision. There's the quips, yes, but he also got rid of Peter's genius. In most other iterations, Peter's a super-genius with the potential to reach the levels of Tony Stark and Hank Pym. In the Raimi movies, Peter's intelligence was toned down to "reasonable" levels, making him just a fairly smart college student. He toned down Peter's wit, humor and much of the more outwardly charming aspects of the character. He also lacks much of comic Peter's tactical prowess, and most of his fights are just him reacting to things and brute force. Some of the slightly more offensive aspects of Peter, such as his desperation to make money bringing him to do some less than savory things, was toned down to make him more likeable.

Raimi's Peter is a quiet, naive, shy, clumsy but ultimately earnest young man who is just smart enough to keep his head afloat. Presumably, he did this in order to make it easier for audiences to relate to him. He's basically just a normal guy, and everything about him was sharply simplified so that anyone and everyone can easily understand him immediately.

I recall that when people first saw The Amazing Spider-Man, some people who were only exposed to the Raimi films felt that Peter was "a bully" and "needlessly mean to his enemies".

The thing is I can understand liking Raimi's vision for Spider-Man. I enjoyed those movies too. But when someone looks at Peter's character in those films and says that the changes are "minor" or "insignificant", or that people who have a problem with it is "blowing it out of proportion", I honestly can't understand.

>>94181157
It's a superhero movie, it's not capable of producing tension because no one has the balls to make a superhero movie where the villain wins and the hero dies.

>>94181424
I'd place Homecoming above 3.

>>94181730
3 was a fun movie, m8

>>94181748
So was Homecoming depending what's "fun".

Personally, I think Homecoming managed to balance it's three villains better than 3. Same with WW.

>>94181748
3 was an irritating movie. I wouldn't say it was the worst movie, but I was seriously growing impatient with Peter, MJ and Sandman by the end of it. These characters had their heads up their own asses the whole film.

>>94181667
Snyder says hi

>>94181783
>homecoming
>three villains
The shockers were not villains. They were just random guys. And the Vulture was a good guy. Peter was the little shit of the movie

>>94181820
>Raimi says hi
Fixed

>>94181006
>>tfw the general normie opinion is "It was okay... better than ASM2 at least.."
I'm pretty sure that the normie opinion is that it's a pretty solid movie. Not trying to use the /co/ntrarian argument but this is the only place I've seen where the general consensus seems to be anything else than that the movie was great

I wish they referenced Batman more.
If it were me I would've had Toomes say "So you wanna get nuts?" just as a little nod.

>>94181257
>>94181297
An adult burnout Peter would've been so much more intriguing and meta.

>>94181006
Didn't we have this thread yesterday?

>>94181663
>his desperation to make money bringing him to do some less than savory things
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=uNfhqty3EoU

You are right tho.

>>94181890
Exactly. How am I supposed to root for a bratty, private school, kid who has billionaires buying him the latest gadgets and is STILL an ungrateful asshole who endangers thousands vs a family man who teams up with a group of friends to provide a living for them all who actively tries not to hurt anyone?

>>94182011
>private school
That high school was like 80% minorities, there's no way it's private

>>94182102
It was the "Midtown School of Science and Technology" no the "Midtown High School". And all the minorities of the movie were wealthy people

>>94181663
>Peter's a super-genius with the potential to reach the levels of Tony Stark and Hank Pym. In the Raimi movies, Peter's intelligence was toned down to "reasonable" levels, making him just a fairly smart college student.
Who had a firm grasp on nuclear fusion on a professional level that even Doc Ock was surprised of and was deemed a prodigy by Norman Osborn. Are you really going to use Slott logic here?

> He toned down Peter's wit, humor and much of the more outwardly charming aspects of the character.
You already said that.

> He also lacks much of comic Peter's tactical prowess, and most of his fights are just him reacting to things and brute force.
He beat Norman Osborn during his first fight by going straight for the glider. Appealed to Doc Ock's human side in his last fight with him. Defeated Sandman with a water based attack. Trapped Venom in a sound cage to destroy the suit once it was away from Eddie.

> Some of the slightly more offensive aspects of Peter, such as his desperation to make money bringing him to do some less than savory things, was toned down to make him more likeable.
Wasn't the entirety of the second and third movies about him struggling with his financial situation?

>>94181006
I thought the movie was good, better than Thor, Captain America. Ant-Man, Iron-Man 2, Doctor Strange and some others. But it was still just an ok movie.. Better than ASM 1 and 2 but worse than the Raimi movies

>>94181006
It was the school stuff. The aspects where they focus on him as Spidey is good. It works well in tandem of the MCU. Which it has to gel with otherwise they wouldn't be able to reference him or put him in future movies.

Had it not required any connection to the MCU (outside of the brief stint with Civil War) they would've been able to branch out of it more.

>>94181006
What would I do to fix?

>strip half the "diversity" casting. MJ back to red-head. Flash something other than indian. Hell, make him black, but make him a big ass bully, not a constantly btfo manlette.
>Make Peter's best friend not a retard. They're in a "gifted" school, kids obviously a mechanical genius, so don't make him a fucking retard. make me believe this is a guy who can mechanic/pc program.
>Give Peter Uncle Ben's death. Don't have to show it, it's been done, but at least outright state "my uncle ben died, I'm doing this for him because he taught me about responsibility"
>tone down Tony's assholeness. We all know Tony is a neet who can't into social, but he's not as bad as the movie makes him out to be.
>maybe make it a bit more obvious that the "tony suit" actually was repressing Pete's strength. Sure they mentioned 'bio-inhibitors' but make it a bit more obvious that tony's holding him back if only for public safety.

honestly, do that and you'd fix about half the problems this movie had.

>>94181157
that's...actually a fair point.

even with Coulson having died in Avengers, it doesn't exactly feel dangerous in the MCU. Hell, it was obvious Vulture could physically btfo Spidey, and yet the only time I felt much danger for Pete was in the car when V was threatening him with a gun.

I won't say that Toby fight you posted was all that amazing, but you can feel the weight and the impact a whole lot better than SPH.

>>94181006
It was actually great and /co/ is being autistic about it.

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>>94182011
Vulture was the true hero of the movie. Hell, his entire speech about "how do you think Tony Stark got his money" was on point. The only difference between him and "the big guys" is connections and "being authorized by the government." But when you get right down to it, their actions are the same and in another decade he might have had the money to take his team "legit" and actually win out the contracts Stark was pulling shenanigans to get.

Like he said in the start "Stark makes the mess, and then Stark gets paid to clean it up. And he just takes it over after we've already got our legal contract with the city." Which, honestly, put me solidly into Vulture's corner. He did the right thing, got that contract legally from the City of New York, and then Stark and his Gubment friends just ignore a legally binding contract so they can steal all the tech and make money doing so.

>>94181212
>Mary Jane Watson black
Michelle =/= Mary Jane

>>94181667
The tension in an action film doesn't come from the question of 'does the hero live or die', it comes from the presentation of the action. The direction, camera work and sound design in this scene are all impactful and both opponents become clearly bloodied and wounded.

Also,
>no one has the balls to make a superhero movie where the villain wins and the hero dies
Watchmen, for one.

Even though the villain doesn't win, Eric does die at the end of the Crow, as well.

>>94183071
>/tv/ is being autistic about it
FTFY.

Shitposting on /co/ going hand in hand with cape movie releases. Our comfiest days are the ones with no movie news.

>>94183143
So the right thing to do is become a supervillain?

The movie made like millions and millions of dollars of profit and was critically lauded. By what possible margin was it a failure?

>>94181667
>what is Watchmen

>>94183294
>By what possible margin was it a failure?
Spiderman and Batman are one lvl above all other supereroes in popularitywise, 600 millions is a sucess to a b list like captain amurica but less than 700 millions is a failure to Parker and Wayne.

>>94183284
How was he a supervillain?

>>94183464
It's only illegal when poor or middle class people do it.

>>94181115
I'm always confused with how much love Raimi gets here.

>>94183597
Because his spiderman movies are actually good,not some bland predictable shit that everyone is overhyping for fanboyism sake like homecoming.

>>94181424
Spider Man 2>Spider Man >Homecoming >>>> everything else.

>>94181006
No sexy black suit.

>>94183597
The movies were more accessible to the general movie audiences while shedding some of the comic purist audiences.

It strived to be a good movie first and a comic book movie second.

If this movie was not in the MCU it would've gotten negative scores

>>94181115
I like his movies but he dosen't really understand spidey. He understands how to make a good, even great movie but he took the job for the money not for his love of the character.

>>94181247
He had them here and there. That's a better trade off than having every superhero be a quips machine.

>>94184173
This
As far as the OP goes, it was decent enough for me to want to see where they take it at the very least. As for what it can improve on, I feel like it'll end up a lot better if they faithfully adapt the supporting cast at least in the college era instead of trying to come up with a bunch of OCs.

>>94181212
It wasn't Mary Jane Watson, it was Michelle something.

But yes, the character was shit, and the "Call me MJ" bit at the end was even worse than the Robin namedrop in DKR.

I'm crossing my fingers that in a movie or two we'll get a real MJ that's a shallow acting Instagram model that's actually super caring once you get to know her.