Is it morally right to intentionally remove an entire universe

>>94065053
No

>>94065053
We don't know. That's the point of the fucking closing scene. Jack didn't have time to think his actions through and had to act fast. But now he has, and Ashi's disappearance reminded him that he won't ever know whether he did the right thing, just like the viewer.

>>94065100
No, that's literally the fucking opposite of the closing scene's meaning.

>>94065109
Maybe you're trying to say that the closing scene, in fact, gives us hope that him removing the timeline was, in fact, for the better. It does, but hope is everything that a doubtful warrior has at this point. Once again, neither we nor Jack will ever know whether he did the right thing.

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Yes

Now I wish they made at least a 3 seconds long scene of the alternative future with all of Jack's friends looking maybe slightly different in Aku-less timeline specifically for the group of people who need this shit because they're scared that Jack deleted them all.

>>94065135
technically speaking right and wrong are subjective.

What we objectively know is that an entire timeline's worth of people were effectively erased from existence.

>>94065135
No, it's pretty obvious he didn't do the right thing just by thinking for a few seconds. He literally erased an entire universe of people and everyone who existed in it.

>>94065155
Well, Jack did delete them all.

But if you think about it, they never should have existed in the first place.

Aku sent jack into the future, altering the timeline. He erased the original timeline that should have prevailed with Jack defeating him, replacing it with another where he won.

Jack came back and rectified this, undoing what Aku did. Obviously it means erasing the /new/ universe that Aku had created and returning it to what would have been with his death.

>>94065180
>moral conflicts do not exist because I decide to only see them from my narrow-minded point of view
Stay classy /co/.

>>94065180
So did Aku by sending Jack into the future and altering his own death.

Jack techhnically undid Aku erasing another timeline.

>>94065100
>Jack didn't have time to think his actions through
He had 50 years to think about it.

>>94065155
I don't undersand hown people think this would change anything, how do people not get this entirely basic concept? Changing the timeline would delete them from existence, if you showed an alternate future it would not change the fact that the other ones are gone, it's like if you murdered someone but said it was okay because they had a twin somewhere who was nothing like them and had a completely different like.

>>94065182
If they well all directly related to Aku then yeah but no one ever mentioned that.

>>94065201
No, he just did the exact same thing.

>>94065180
Welcome to time travel 101. This is why traveling into the past is a terrible idea. However, Aku's reach didn't encompass the entire universe. Mostly it was Earth's history that changed, and for the better for a lack of the hell that was Aku's dominion.

>>94065218
Then again applying analogy to this show, that person was the product of murder.

However yeah I agree.

This is a big plothole in Back to the Future movie too I think.

Imagine how Marty must feel when all the memories he had of his parents were altered.

>"Hey son, remember that cruise we too last year?"
>"Uh no. . "
>"What about your first car."
>"I don't remember anything!"

I think Rick and Morty handles this much better by acknowledging altered dimensions and that they aren't actually the same.

>>94065210
Most of which he spent being a depressed husk of a man, having troubles with motivating himself to live another day, much less thinking about ways to save the entire world.

>>94065252
Yes by he erased the entire timeline, which consisted of the entire universe, so even if something wasn't changed in the new timeline it was still destroyed and replaced with something identical.

>>94065252
>However, Aku's reach didn't encompass the entire universe.
Except Aku explicitly attacked other planets and invited alien mercenaries to earth.

He stole all the water from an alien planets homeworld.

That alone means that huge swaths of other planets timelines would be changed, and anything that those planets affected too.

One thing I wonder is why Aku didn't just go to space to run away from Jack

>>94065239
He did the exact same thing, but Aku's universe was the aberration.

>>94065053
Well yeah. Would they rather live in a universe enslaved by an evil god? Nothing is determining that everyone else won't exist, just ashi.

Ashi disappeared specifically because she had Aku in her and he was killed before he could create her. If the rule was that all people living in the future get deleted this fact would not be important at all. The rest are fine.

>>94065287
And, as mentioned, the timeline which Jack erased had itself erased the original timeline that Jack returned (the one where Aku was defeated).

The moment Aku sent jack into the future, he erased an entire timeline in that instant by altering time and space and preventing his own death.

>>94065302
Whether the timeline was an aberration or not changes nothing, it has absolutely no bearing on the moral implications of what was done.

>>94065303
Trying to say that removing Aku from existence wouldn't change time would be like saying removing Jesus from existence wouldn't change much.

I mean, surely everything would be the same right?

>>94065317
>>94065331

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>>94065331
>Whether the timeline was an aberration or not changes nothing, it has absolutely no bearing on the moral implications of what was done.
So does that mean

It doesn't really matter?

I'm also a bit sad that Jack's friends don't remember him anymore.
Except the robots who most likely weren't even created.

>>94065331
Two wrongs always make right

Aku televised the impending execution of Jack, after announcing to the whole world that his goal was to "undo the future that is Aku." Their immediate response to this was to go in all out war in attempt to save Jack, even at the cost of their own lives. From this, I infer that they considered their timeline and existence worth being undone if it meant getting rid of Aku.

>>94065387
Why only the robots? Saying one thing is unchanged and another isn't is rather abitrary

It is in fact not morally right at all. That's like saying it's okay to kill a bunch of Holocaust survivors and replace them with pampered rich kids.

>>94065403
I think its more likely that they, and Jack, weren't really considering the heavy implications.

Its easier for us because we're the viewers behind a screen and can observe this after-the-fact.

>>94065429
But what if you find out that a bunch of pampered rich kids were killed and replaced by holocaust survivors. And the only way to bring them back was to kill the holocaust survivors?

>>94065420
Well the the aliens still exist. What changed is that they were never invited by Aku. Most robots were made on Aku's orders. People should be fine I guess. Scotsman lived in what was a rather secluded place.

>>94065210
I doubt he realized that doing what he did would literally erase the entire alternate timeline.

He was pretty surprised when Ashi disappeared.

>>94065451
Why do you think the "original" timelines people have more of a right to exist simply because they were going to exist first? It makes no sense.

>>94065462
>Most robots were made on Aku's orders
That seems based on assumption.

For example, one could imagine the talking dogs. Dogs don't just up and evolve to speak in the lifespan of human beings. What if without one of the nuclear wars Aku's caused, they never mutated to speak?

>>94065053
Stop spamming this fucking thread

I'm sorry your headcanon never came true

Yes it is, they never existed so no harm was done. Jack did the right thing.

>>94065432
They live in fear, oppression, seclusion, despair, secrecy, turmoil, and worse. Their past, present, and future was a struggle for survival. All because for as long as they've ever known, for longer than any of them have lived, longer than any of them could live, Aku's word is law.

Jack was the one thing that they found that they could even hope would make a difference. The moment his end is near, every one of them are ready, with no hesitation, to fight and die in order to save him. Even with knowing what his ultimatum was. They considered a world with no Aku to be a world worth giving up everything for, and that's exactly what they did.

>>94065706
Well, yeah. To be fair, even if they didn't realize they would be wiped from existence they all knew they would likely die in the battle

In fact most of them did die right?

Scotsman died twice even!

>>94065706
Well, I guess those few hundred people totally had the right to speak for every living thing in the universe.

>>94065759
To stop a being of what is literally pure evil and totally unstoppable except for a magic sword from having control of that universe.

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>>94065053
Why people don't get triggered when COUNTLESS shows,comics and cartoons do this?

Fucking Back to the Future works like that. In 99% of the cases people are just born with HAPPIER lifes, including in GENNDY'S OTHER WORKS.

Why you are so dumb 4chan? And expecting it on Samurai Jack of all places, the most idealistic show from CN, with clearly defined lines of good and evil?

You people are insane.

>>94065778
No to wipe out all of existence and everyone in it, because they decided that no one should be allowed to live in a timeline they think shouldn't exist.

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>>94065573
Jack basically pull off what Nox couldn't and people fucking loved Nox.

>>94065794
"I don't get why people think something is bad, they all must be stupid!!"

>>94065822
1-you don't know what happened to them, likely they live happier lifes on the future
2-you are a whiny faggot
3-this is praticaly one of the most common tropes used on time travel.

>>94065860
"I don't get why people have double standards* "

>>94065822
In order to stop a being of what is literally pure evil and totally unstoppable except for a magic sword from having control of that universe.

>>94065860
I get, and this is why I think that you are stupid.

The reasons are: headcanons, cherry picking and ignoring when other shows do this, selfish traits and faggotory.

>>94065235
A friend of mine exists because of World War II. In the aftermath of the war, a lot of people were displaced from their homes and had to start new lives elsewhere. My friend's grandparents were like that. They had to relocate into my hometown; a tiny community in the opposite side of the country than their original homes.
If it wasn't for the war, they never would've had a reason to set foot in here. Their daughter wouldn't have ended up meeting my friend's father in this town. Those two would've raised their families elsewhere, with some different people, and had different kids.

If some time-traveler went back to prevent WWII, he would create a world where my friend was never born. And it would apply to a lot of other people too; the war had such a massive impact on the world that preventing it would erase out of existence a massive chunk of people living today, as well as their future children, and their future children, and so on. There would be different people in their place.

Aku's impact on the timeline/history was on a similarly large scale, so going to the past to defeat him would have the same results. It would create new and different circumstances that'd wipe out of existence a whole timeline of unborn people.

I would've loved it if Samurai Jack had actually discussed this a little earlier than with Ashi's final line. They had a nice opportunity set up there, and it could've been something really awesome to address the implications. They didn't shy away from Jack feeling suicidal, so I was hoping for them to touch on this topic as well.

He didn't destroy a universe or kill anyone but Aku, come on now.

He changed the course of the universe, he didn't destroy it.

If you divert a river, the river isn't "deleted." It merely flows down a different path. Maybe it doesn't wash over that particular stone anymore. Maybe it washes over another stone. But the river still exists, just differently than before.

Now you can argue whether diverting the river at all is moral, and whether or not it's moral to return a river to its natural course after someone else diverts it, but nothing was deleted.

He just changed the course back to what it was naturally, without intervention by Aku. Thinking that means deleting or killing anyone is a pretty shallow and childish lack of understanding.

>>94065874
How do you not get this? The ones living happier lives are completely different people. And I'm not talking about not being born, even if they were born in the new timeline it would be a completely separate being/entity/existence than the one that was erased. The rest are just insults showing that you have no real argument other than "lol ur a feggit", grow the fuck up.

>>94065900
What head cannons? What cherry picking? Nobody even mentioned any other shows or their opinion on how time travel was used in them. You're just throwing around meme words with no context or relevance to the converstaion.

>>94065955
If you make it so that your parents, family, entire nation doesn't remember you and thinks you never existed, so that you are a stranger in your own room which doesn't exist anymore, then surely nothing wrong happened and everything is fine.

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>>94065939
Fuck off Nigga.

90% of cartoons doesn't CARE for it.

Jack Chan had a demon rewritten human story to make that demons had won an ancient war and conquered the world for hundred years...and all Main Characters still existed, Xiaoling Showdown did the same, hell...

Fucking Dexter by Genndy did it.

Most cartoons follow this pattern, and we have nothing that indicates that it follows what you are proposing.

>>94065955
He dug a new channel and filled in the old one destroying all the fish and life in it, that's destroying it. Stop trying to hide a bad argument behind bad analogies and pretty words.

>>94065162
We know that how, exactly?
We know for a fact that Jack left that timeline, and that someone created there (Ashi) couldn't survive outside/before it, but timelines in general are so finicky, that without any other evidence than Jack's subjective perspective, what we can say for sure is only that they were effectively erased from Jack's perception, not existence

>>94065939
>Aku's impact on the timeline/history was on a similarly large scale,
Aku's impact was physically ongoing at all times on a cosmic scale that, without Jack, would have gone on for the rest of time. WWII doesn't even register as a blip as far as Aku's impact is concerned.

>>94066010
>What head cannons?
To begin with, that time travel is something utterly complex on this show that would be adressed, when it was always fucking straight forward, and Genndy even commented how time travel didn't made any sense anyway in a previous movie ABOUT time travel ending in a paradox.

>What cherry picking?
Getting triggered at this, when "preventing bad future with time travel" is common as fuck in fiction, and nobody ever complains or make threads about it.

>>94066078
Except that nobody died.

If anything, the fish have a better place to live.

>>94066027
>Fucking Dexter by Genndy did it.
If you mean the time travel movie, actually Dexter got it right.

Superbly right.

Dexter starts off th emovie by defeating the robots sent back in the past by himself(s) to destroy dee-dee. Thinking they would be him.

Dexter's adult self left the protonic thing out in the open for Mandark to rule the world.

Dexters elderly self lived in a world where he saved everyone from mandark.

And dexters badass self helped them all defeat Mandark. And built the robots that triggered him to go into the future.

it was all executed perfectly.

>>94066014
That never happened, though. Nobody forgot him.

>>94066078
Nobody died. Nothing was destroyed. It's like loading a file before you did an hour of work. It doesn't destroy or undo or "kill" that hour of work. You're just going back to an earlier point and branching off.

>>94066080
>but timelines in general are so finicky
If you take a stained glass window and throw it in the air, and have it shatter on the ground what are the chances the pieces will align up perfectly like the original?

Or if you take a jar with colored sand art and shake it, is it more or less likely to be the same?

>>94066149
>Nobody forgot him.
Assuming everyone he ever met in the future still exists after defeating aku then /everyone/ in the future forgot him.

>>94066125
>>94066149
How do people think this? It's unbelievably simple.
>>94065218
>>94065287
>>94065985
I'm tired of explaining it.

>>94066156
This is a cartoon with talking dogs dressed as Hannah Barbera characters, where a normal person jumps several meters high while carrying a rock that weight several tons, where a group of random Tigers with letters on their clothes just happen to for by random speciphic words that fit the situation.

>>94066178
You can't forget what you never knew, anon. You're really looking at this from a limited, non-rational perspective.

Are you sure you don't just want another reason to be mad about the final season of the show?

>>94066082
Yes, it's straight forward, the Aku timeline is gone and was replaced with a new one, we're here to discuss the moral implications, and I complain whenever I see shitty time travel, and I'm sure other people do too. I'm sure people made threads about this in other cartoons you probably just didn't care at the time.

>>94066211
Because your explanation is flawed. Nothing is deleted. Nothing is killed or destroyed. You can't "delete" something that never existed in the first place. You seem to have a really hard time understanding time travel.

>>94066211
The fact that nobody cares because the world is a better place for everyone, and you are just irrationally bitching.

>>94066027
>and all Main Characters still existed
And we know this because the series showed that they exist. Samurai Jack didn't give any kind of resolution to the future cast. Are the Woolies still enslaved in the distant future? Would X-49 still be built even without Aku, or would Lulu remain as a lonely stray? Would the Earth still have all those aliens and robots? Would the Scotsman have as many daughters in a happier future?

People keep complaining and making up theories because the show didn't give any closure. Genndy could've done like the Vandal Savage episode in Justice League and showed the future characters deliberately and willingly accepting the risk of being erased out of existence; that would've stopped people from whining about Jack's actions. Or if it was too difficult to find enough time for existential topics, they could've just showed a brief epilogue from a happy future where everyone's alive and happier. But they did neither.

I'm not too surprised that a cartoon handles time-travel in a lazy fashion, it's an impossible topic anyway. But after the first few episodes showed Jack's psychological torment over his situation, I'm pretty disappointed by how lazy the ending was.

>>94066304
So if one were to go back to the big bang and stop it from ever happening, meaning all life never existed in the first place, then nothing was deleted or destroyed and nothing bad happened?

>>94065053

Without being too political, isn't this is basically the ultimate form of abortion?
It's just, instead of a kid maybe growing up in a shit life, it's a whole universe of people across a millennium growing up in a shit life.

>>94066295
>I'm sure people made threads about this in other cartoons
Nope.

This is the first time where I see people unironicaly defending thousands years of suffering.

>>94066304
No, you seem to not understand it, you can't delete something from existence and just say "well now that it never existed I didn't do anything" that's circular logic and just trying to justify deleting billions of people.
>>94066326
Yes, It's completely irrational that I think that that happiness being achieved by wiping an entire history and billions of people from existence has negative moral implication is completely irrational of me, I'm such an asshole.

>>94065053
You do this every time you make a decision. The only difference is you weren't magically shown any of those alternate, hypothetical timelines that you keep eliminating.

>>94066339
It was open nigga.

Intentionally open. So do what people are supposed to do in intentionally open endings, and choose whatever you want.

Otherwise you are just bitching without a point.

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>>94066339
>Genndy could've done like the Vandal Savage episode in Justice League and showed the future characters deliberately and willingly accepting the risk of being erased out of existence
God THAT was even worse.

They go back in time to stop Vandal Savage from altering the past. Except they dont and instead what they do is just win the war for the allies. The whole war. Before returning to the future.

Then in the future there's even a fucking Blackhawk Island with vandal savage's equipment.

Flash even says "it's like those documentaries" and Hawkgirl replies "not quite" when seeing a war wheel.

A young Clark Kent, watching a documentary on WW2, saw Superman and the entire Justice League in black and white fighting in D-Day? That none of the Justice League noticed themselves kicking nazi butt in the past?

>>94066353
You probably have to destroy something to stop the big bang from happening, but you can't kill or destroy that which never existed, no. You wouldn't be killing me, because I never existed to kill.

As I said in my earlier post, however, you can debate the morality of changing the path of history, but claiming he's killing an entire universe of people is pretty stupid. He didn't.

I would generally place having the hubris to change time in any way as bad, but it changes the morality when someone else did it first and you're just trying to put things back on the natural path.

I mean, it was his stated goal from episode one. Nobody not-evil ever challenged his goal, and as evidenced by the last episode, they supported that goal enough to help him accomplish it. Even the fanbase never had an issue with his stated goal until he accomplished it, which makes me think it's just an excuse to hate the last season since a lot of people didn't like it.

The earlier argument of "they didn't think through the consequences" is pretty silly. These are people in a future that has time portals. Our universe doesn't have time portals and we still get the implications of "undo the future that is Aku."

>>94066395
The moment where you are in the past, it never existed. It just becomes a potential like any other thing >>94066410 and yes, you are an asshole for wanting to subjugate the same people to countless years of despair for eons, instead of saving them.

>>94066395
If you delete something, then it existed. This isn't circular reasoning. It's simple definitions. If something is deleted, it had to have existed first. If it never existed, you can't delete it.

I can't delete fluffy pink unicorns from existence because they don't exist in the first place. Obviously. You stupid, dense fuck.

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>>94066443
"Hey Pa, I have a history assignment. You were a soldier in World War 2 right?"

"Yes, I was there. You saved me at D-Day"

"What? But how?"

"Oh, you'll learn when you're older. And I'm younger"

>>94066494
I chuckled.

>>94066467
You are actively ignoring what I'm saying., you have completely ignored what I have said and just kept repeating the same thing over and over, I'm done. I don't know if you're a troll or someone who is actually this delusional but you need serious help.

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>>94066443
>Transistors? But these weren't invented until after the war!
>So let's leave hundreds and thousands of these things everywhere in 1940. That will surely have no consequences!
REEEEEEEEEE

>>94066443
I'm not talking about that Vandal Savage story where they messed with the war. I'm talking about the one where Superman's flung to the distant post-apocalyptic future and meets a remorseful immortal Savage there. They work together to change the past, which means that this particular version of Savage vanishes out of existence.

I liked the characterizations of the main cast in the war episode you mentioned, and I'm fond of it for that reason. But the stuff around the time-travel or historical stuff was messy and awkward, like you said.
I'm just going to assume that interfering with the war resulted in fucking up their timeline/history, and that's one reason why the technology in DCAU seems to have advanced faster than in ours (at least if you compare the tech in BTAS and JLU).

>>94066549
Because you are saying non sense, and is now having a breakdown because of it. Because as Dexter said in other words, time travel is bulshit to begin with.

>>94066156
If you met some people in a cabin in in the woods, then left, and never ever saw those people, or this cabin, or those woods again, what are the chances they all stopped existing?

>>94066675
That depends.

If you can't hear them, do they make a sound?

>>94066651
And everybody was still born, and most of their lifes seemed to be identical.

Guess what? It's the most common thing in cartoons and nobody cares because there isn't anything wrong with it.

Time travel is nothing but a plot device.

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If the price of stopping a multiversal demonic entity was one timeline out of billions, then I say it's worth it. No matter what logic you try to argue, Aku was pure evil. ANY sacrifice involved in destroying him would be a net positive for the universe as a whole. Take your hurt feelings elsewhere if you think we shouldn't make risks to improve the world.

>>94066719
Sure, a lot of shows handwave the problems around time travel. But after the first few episodes of S5 setting up the mood they did, I was expecting a little more than standard toon stuff from Samurai Jack. I was hoping some of the characters inside the story would bring up the question: if Jack were to succeed in his task, what will happen to his friends and allies? I think the story would've improved a lot if someone had asked that question.
It was disappointing to just get a repeat of the Gurren Lagann ending instead.

>nobody cares
But they do. Apparently there's been enough criticism outside /co/ that the protagonist's VA had to comment on it.

>“Last time I checked, you didn’t write it or create or draw it, so I don’t know why it would be exactly what you wanted," [Phil LaMarr] said, addressing fans and critics. "It’s what Genndy wanted. You wouldn't say, 'I think the Mona Lisa would be better if she just smiled. Come on, Da Vinci, lighten up. Go in and redo it.’”

>>94067085
>But they do. Apparently there's been enough criticism outside /co/ that the protagonist's VA had to comment on it.

This is 100% contrarianism. Like, "many people are satisfied the world was saved but I'll nitpick about this to appear smart". I say this as a person who never cared about this series besides watching random episodes as a kid back in the day but know the typical time travel tropes.

The only possibly acceptable argument out of all this is "what if he creates an even worse future for doing this?"and if that happens I can see the hero t4ying to fix it again

>>94065742

I think the final fight was done in part to show that if Jack doesn't go back to the past, the people he's successfully saved will still mostly end up dying horrific deaths at Aku's hands.

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>>94065218
So with your logic Marty McFly killed everyone when he altered the past in back to the future? Does changing absolutely anything mean you're "killing" absolutely everyone in the future since it will all be different? That's beyond stupid. By doing things in the present you're technically killing everyone in the future who would of been different if you weren't around.

>>94065053
That entire Universe would rather have aku gone.

>>94065053
Yes and No. Because the end of the 5th season is a paradox.
>Jack goes to defeat Aku
>Aku tricks Jack and sends him to the future
>There are 2 outcomes to this.
>1. The logical one: Jack defeats Aku in the future and lives with the consequences of his inaction to defeat Aku before he could trick him.
>2. The illogical one: Jack goes back to the past like he intended and defeats Aku 1 of 2 ways, but going back to the past Before he was sent to the past, or going back to the past After.
Either way, Future Jack defeats Aku in the past, thus making the future Aku made, of which Jack was sent to, nonexistant. Meaning Jack could never have gone to the past to defeat Aku. Aku never defeated, Aku's future exists, Jack gets sent to it, Jack goes to the past,.. etc, etc. You get the idea.

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ok which one

>>94065053
Why, yes. If you mean that is to spare the bad end people to actually face the bad end, it's valid.

Now, if you're asking because of that ton of crybabies who are all touchy about "Jack erased all of his friends and his waifu from the future", it's still valid.

>>94072024
Basic causality paradox, also called the grandfather paradox. Sometimes changing the past is justified. It was in this case, because nearly any possible future is better than Aku's. In the many worlds cosmology all Jack did was which timeline he personally is in. In a non many worlds cosmology he changed the entire timeline, which should have caused a universe ending paradox. But it didn't, so we're all good.

>>94065201
Aku didn't erase a timeline, he did something in the present he (supposedly) belonged to to impact the future. said action had the same effect on the next 1000 years as simply killing Jack conventionally.
Erasing a timeline would have been if Aku had gone back in time after reawakening to kill Jacks father in his crib.
Time travel to the future is a very simple, straightforward, understandable and POSSIBLE concept, and thus doesn't feel like something that is halfassed and unsatisfying to use. Time travel to the past however is just a can of worms that had remained unopened until the finale and should have stayed closed.

>>94065403
Or, you know, they previously saw Jack helping them instead of pursuing his goal and thought they'd defeat Aku together like what was actually portrayed in five seasons of the show and not asperger-fueled minds of idiots like yourself? Gee wiz, this cartoon was really hard to understands, hurpa durpa durp.

>>94066410
That's not how it works. In a linear timeline, the past is meant to be a concrete event, the present contains the potential for future events, and the future is nothing but a hypothetical until/if it becomes the present.
In this context for example
Jack DID
>wipe from existence the scotsman, his ancestors, ashi, any of the characters from the show due to butterfly effect. those characters had a history which has now been eradicated completely
He did NOT however
>wipe Jack and Ashi's potential children, because they did not have them yet, they were nothing but a hypothetical, and you can't undo something that has not happened yet.

>>94073851
Blablabla butterfly effect "everyone was killed even if I dont have evidence and most cartoons dont do this and was intentionaly left open"
Read >>94066027

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>tfw a Mike Judge comedy did the exact same story in a much more satisfying way

I think it's right. Jack deserves praise. Stop being buttblasted fictional characters don't exist in a fictional universe anymore.This is the problem with most of the criticism this show's ending is receiving. It's mostly immature emotionalism as opposed to constructive complaints.

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>>94073971
>even if I don't have evidence
we were shown exactly one long term result of his actions, and NOTHING stated in the show to suggest it was different for anyone else

>>94073971
It was NOT left open and you have all the evidence you need that time is linear and everything was erased, with absolutely NO evidence pointing otherwise. If time was not linear then Aku would not only NOT try stopping Jack from reaching a time portal, but actively help him to do it. It now even impossible to not understand it, what the fuck.

Also, another thread filled with literal autists incapable of understanding basic human nature, when there' pretty much nothing to understand, jesus. "Huuurrrr he did the right thing and deleted a world filled with suffering for millennia, duurrrr I'm so smart". Why do you think 99% of people in concentration camps and other hellholes did not just commit suicide? Why weren't they happy when they were finally getting offed? Jesus fucking christ.

Genndy should have either
>followed completely through with erasure, wipe Jack from the past while leaving the other one in the future
or
>not erased anyone, use cartoon logic or the deus ex machina he's so fond of to leave everyone but Aku alive with some handwave comment about the removal of a demon bringing peaceful balance to all the timelines

>>94074197
>Why do you think 99% of people in concentration camps and other hellholes did not just commit suicide? Why weren't they happy when they were finally getting offed?
Because obviously all living creatures don't have a natural/instinctual predilection toward self preservation YA IDJIT

>>94074267
Bravo! You're just one step from being able to understand cartoons.

>>94074322
Now all i need to do is ripoff the good the bad and the ugly to get people to say I'm brilliant

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>>94074051
Are you retarded? She is daughter of Aku. Even if everyone was still there, she would have gone.

>>94074081
>you need that time is linear and everything was erased
Aku was erased.

Man, I provided examples of multiple cartoons doing exactly just what I said. Hell, the JL cartoon where they go back in time, change the past, and almost everything is identical in the future and everybody still exists is another example.

>>94074197
Now imagine how many of them would have gone back in time to kill Hitler and avoid all of the horrible shit with them and their family.

>>94074486
>Man, I provided examples of multiple cartoons
wtf?

>>94074486
>Now imagine how many of them would have gone back in time to kill Hitler and avoid all of the horrible shit with them and their family.
No one, because it's completely idiotic. Even Jews in first half of the last century knew that while time travel may work as a premise for a cool idea for a show, the moment you actually try to employ it you fucked up and you fucked up bad. That ending was a very definition of a mistake.

>>94074486
>she is daughter of aku
And x9 was built as a bounty hunter at akus personal request, using technology that aku brought to earth.
We were given NO inclination that disappearance was a fate the rest were spared from. Now if ashi didn't vanish, we could easily and rightly assume that cartoon logic saved her and everyone else, because she was the only remnant of the future that was brought to the past.
However, said remnant was wiped from time, and we can only imagine that the same fate met the others. All of this could have been avoided if they gave any form of hint.

>>94074486
>kill Hitler
>prevent ww2
>veterans act is not passed in response to draining war
>baby boom doesn't happen

>>94074574
Earlier on the thread. Anyway:
Cartoons where a character goes back in time to avoid a bad future of a vilain, and everyone is still born (but on different lifes, or with no changes at all just from the top of my head):

>Justice League/JLA
>Jack Chan
>Dexter
>Xiaoling Showdown
>FOP
>Ben 10
>Back to the Future

>>94074690
JL did basicaly this and they just ignored, like most things do.

>>94074797
How many of those based all of the emotional weight in the ending around the death of a character as a side effect of backwards time travel?

>>94074657

You can crete many ways for why x9 could exist. For example:
>the scientist that build him went solo withou Aku, and created his own army of gangster bots.

Scotman could have met his wife in different ways, and so on. But there is NO WAY to do it with Ashi.

>>94074842
You just sound like a buttblasted waifufag, because what you said has nothing to do with anything.

>>94074486
So what you're basically saying is that while it's completely obvious that one character whose existence in the timeline was a direct result of Aku's influence got erased, it's also completely obvious that all the other characters whose existence in the timeline was a direct result of Aku's influence did not got erased. Are you feeling ok? Id you take your retardation medicine today?

Also, honest question, cause I'm really cuirous: which rule applies to various evil shit like for example alien/robot bounty hunters and all sort of spawn that caused most of the actual damage/murder/etc while Aku was chilling in his pit of hate?

>>94074957
You're going way overboard with headcanon. And a shitty+stupid headcanon at that.

>>94074797
Oh great, an aspie. So I guess I have to explain what a rhetorical question is? That was a rhetorical question btw. I did not ask you to actually repeat the list of cartoons that are in no way connected and have no implication on anything, because they are in now way connected and have no implication on anything.

>>94074957
>What you said has nothing to do with anything
It has everything to do with it. Regardless of whether you like ashi or Not, her erasure as a final fuck you to jack was the emotional center of the ending. And people are more inclined to believe/accept bullshit cartoon logic when it leads to a more desirable ending for the protagonists (ashi was as much a main character and protagonist of this season as Jack was). In this case we are being told to accept the death of the deuteragonist(that we were intended to like and support) because of the bullshit contradictory logic.

So again I ask, did any of those listed cartoons center around the death/erasure of one of the main characters? If the answer is no, then that is why people dont harp on those endings for logic inconsitency or question it endlessly.

>>94075274
I meant to write "center the emotional focus of the ending on the death/erasure of a main character"

>>94074690
Killing Hitler wouldn't have prevented WWII. Anyone who's halfway competent could tell you that the way Germany was left humiliated after WWI and in dire straights would have opened the door to another global conflict later on down the line regardless of who took power. I know some idiots think you can pinpoint one person to a single event but history doesn't work that way. You can't stop the inevitable. If not Hitler then it would have been someone else.

>>94075333
And time travel backwards is impossible, I'm not gonna put effort into a single slippery slope-tier hypothetical when i was just giving an example of a way some seemingly ideal past-meddling could backfire

>>94075333
>>94075379
Why do you two existence this isn't just an illusion?

>>94075482
I think it's trying to communicate

The time travel rules were never really explained. It could be a splinter universe and Ashi was only erased because she was both in the past as well as a new timeline.

Time travel shit is so dubious and exposition-dependent that it's legitimately more trouble than its worth.

>>94075584
>the time travel rules were never really explained
That's because it isn't a show about time travelling. Not once before the finale did any character, including Aku, perform any kind of backwards time travel.
And forward time travel was used exactly once and then never again.

People are getting worked up about stuff happening in the final ep when it was all done because the creators apparently saw fit to make a scene stolen from animu an ending and the vessel for the emotional impact of the end of Jack's journey. That idea was so fucking stupid the mind boggles. It's even more hilarious when you realize that time travel shenanigans were absolutely not needed to have an emotional scene of Ashi's death and that the scene itself was completely fucked up by her final words being stating the obvious while looking at the screen.

Then again, this season also had a scene of one of the most recognizable characters in the series literally explaining what the plan of Jack's allies is while looking at the screen, and apparently some people think what they wanted to do was to help Jack erase them from existence after seeing the original intro so lol, idk.

>>94075664
100% legit, no irony thank you! It's really refreshing to see someone who understands basic stuff among the sea of retards,

>>94075807
I think the people who defend the ending are feeling something similar to choice supportive bias. Where they made their decision early on that genndy "saved animation" and that nothing would change their mindset, lest they appear to be backpeddlers.

>>94070766
This doesn't happen in Back to the Future, because BttF has always treated time travel like magic, and filled it with destiny stuff, but in general, the only model of Time Travel that does not instantly result in a paradox due to the butterfly effect, without the introduction of parallel universes coexisting, is one where "time travel" is in fact just time reconstruction; meaning you designate a point in time from the past or present, and reconstruct the entirety of the universe around you into what it was/is going to be at that moment in time around yourself, effectively destroying everything around yourself, and overwriting it with a new one.
This works, because basically what's happening is this in regards to the timeline (Points in time are letters of the alphabet, you depart to time B at time G):
>A B C D E F G/B2 C2 D2...
Your act of time travel is never going to lead to a paradox, because you're not changing B,C,D,E,F or G, you're just recreating B with a little bit of a change (namely your presence) and letting things go on from there.

This doesn't work with most time travel tropes, because most of them revolve entirely around iherently paradoxial concepts, or multiple universes, but if we want to stick to single universe time travel, this is the only model that doesn't cause a paradox or erase the time between B and G utterly.

>>94075584
>>94075664
>>94075880
BUT MUH THEME SONG

>>94076346
how do you know samurai jack doesn't abide by magic destiny and shit? it would make sense. It was a goddamn kid's show

>>94078862
Because if it did then there would be no need for ashi to disappear

>>94078889
marty mcfly literally disappears in the same fucking way in the first movie for the same reason

>>94078913
So who is the protagonist of the sequels?