So now that Wally has time stop does that mean he can counter

>>93862350
I always thought a villain that could manipulate time would be a threat to a DC speedster (it probably has been done a few times before but I'm mainly aware of the rogues and other speedsters), that ends that notion.

>>93862350
He's going to have some kind of limiter, you can count on it already.

And he's not the first speedster to have time stop power, tight? Nor is the first time he has this kind of power, or something like it. It's a bit like when he got stuck into really, really, really, really slot bullet time because he was stressed because he couldn't save everyone. Or when he was bored: it happened to him before, if I'm not misremembering it.

I wonder if Waid's run storytime anon is here and can confirm.

>>93862526
>tight?
I meant "right".

>>93862526
There is a difference. Wally has only ever ran at stopped time once to beat instant transportation. All the other times it was just slowed down extremely.

Why do they need to balance it? He was already the strongest one. Just gives him a more unique gimmick and nothing else has changed.

>>93862350
>Time-stop powers

Do you have pictures? Issue?

>>93862350
Nope. Thawne had timestop powers in the New 52 and Barry Allen just clenched his asshole and immediately undid it. Wally's power is pointless against top tier speedsters like Barry and Thawne.

>>93863159
It was in the last Titans issue >>93811488

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How would Wally fare against Stopman?

>>93863242
>Barry
>Top tier
He is like number 3 fastest most and more like number 8.

>>93863323
Does stopman rape them?

>>93863672
Barry and both walls are the fastest men alive. But many speedforce users have their own special things.

By the way zoom is the fastest now.

>>93862452
That's literally Zoom's powers.

He could slow down the flow of time to the point that it was all but stopped.

Wally had to borrow all of Jay and Bart's speed in order to go so fast that even with time basically stopped he was still moving fast enough to keep up with Zoom.

Yfw wally has ZA WARUDO

>>93863672
Barry is and always will be better than Wally. That's the entire point of Barry's return. He was and always will be the best and that's why Wally's tenure was always doomed to end.

>>93863892
That's strange since Barry is still slower than Wally and Zoom in cannon.

>>93862350
Does he still have the pacemaker, or was that already undone?

>>93863923
He's slower than Thawne but that's it.

>>93863959
The Pacemaker is apparently what's giving him time stop powers.

>>93863967
Wally was much faster than Barry up until his recent nerf anon. This was even referenced in the comics. Nothing Barry has done in the comics comes even close to What Wally could do.

>>93863923
No he isn't. Hugs bookmto uses hi my so fastest Man alive. So does Wally.

Zooms from the future do faster than both. You can tell they are grooming Zoom to replace Barry someday.

He is Johns mega fav.

>>93863992
Barry was immediately more powerful the second he came back in the original Flash Rebirth. The entire point of Flash Rebirth was that Barry is the center of the Flash family. He literally is the Speed Force. No one besides Thawne (who literally is the Reverse Speed Force) can be faster than him.

Wally saying he beat Barry in a race means jack shit. So did Superman.

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>>93863990
Oh, that makes sense. Cause that's how things should work.

>>93863998
>>93864027
Have you fucks never read the comics. Wally is literally a billion times faster than zoom. Even in Rebirth Wally was faster than Barry. What the fuck are you faggots on about? Never has Barry or Zoom done a single thing on par with Barry's speed. Even Wally in the show is faster than Barry.
Read the fucking comics jesus christ.

>>93864072
Thawne beat Wally, by himself, in Rogue War. Fairly easily, too. Thawne embarrassed Wally in the original Flash Rebirth.

Wally bested Thawne a couple of times, both when he was very early in his career. He has NO CHANCE against Thawne, especially modern Thawne.

"Even in Rebirth Wally was faster than Barry" the fuck he was. Freaking Lady Savitar was handing Wally his shit. Barry beat her SINGLEHANDEDLY. Thawne was running circles around everyone, yet Barry was the only one fast enough to stop him.

He's literally the Speed Force. Wally only accesses a fraction of BARRY'S power. Anything Wally can do is merely just the trickle down effect of Barry's power.

>>93864161
You are retarded. Wally has done things Thawne couldn't even imagine doing. He isn't faster than Wally. This is an objective fact. Zoom (as in Hunter) is also much faster than The Reverse Flash.

>>93864232
Did you just ignore Flash Rebirth? Wally was helpless against him. Thawne was mocking him for not knowing SHIT about his own powers. Thawne fixed his kids in half a second when Wally couldn't do shit.

Thawne's the master. The only reason Barry can stand a chance against him is he's the most powerful of the good speedsters. Even the editor of The Flash says Barry's faster than Wally.

>>93864232
Zolomon doesn't exist anymore so not really anything to talk about.

>>93864300
>Did you ignore Flash rebirth
You mean in the final scene where Barry wasn't fast enough so Wally was behind him pushing him forward?
>>93864360
It's mentioned because Wally is faster than Zoom and Zoom is faster than RF

>>93863990
is it something he activates? or is it just whenever he runs?
are there risks?

>>93864300
Call me when Barry outruns instantaneous travel.

>>93864431
Read the issue and find out yourself, anon.

>>93864376
Wally wasn't pushing him forward in the finale scene. He did it at the start but once he helped Barry get through that first hurdle Barry was always leading him with Wally behind. As it should be.

And again, you're ignoring Thawne beating Wally one on one in Rogue War rather easily. That's why Barry had to show up -- Wally stands no chance against Thawne alone, much less Thawne and Zolomon.

>>93864432
Barry's ran across space in a "fraction of an instant."

Human Race wasn't even Wally's own speed. It was literally everyone BUT Wally's speed.

>>93864458
>Leading him
Holy shit, no. He was behind him helping him out. Jesus fucking Christ Barryfags don't even read comic books.

>>93864481
>Fraction of an instant
Not instant travel.
>>93864458
>If a character beats another that means they are faster or stronger
I guess WW is stronger than supes then you idiot.

>>93864495
Read it you fucking idiot. Wally's not helping at all. If anything he's benefiting from getting to run in Barry's wake. Wally's just looking on as Barry gives his speech to Thawne as he runs him back to the present. Wally doesn't do anything after that first push.

>>93864522
I don't think you understand what the word instant means.

Wonder Woman can outfight Superman, sure. When it comes to speedsters it's all about speed. Thawne schooled Wally. If Wally was SO MUCH FASTER than Thawne like this fucking faggot says he wouldn't get smacked down like a bitch.

>>93864495

Said the bias'd wallyfag.

>>93864530
>Wally doesn't do anything after his first push
Because he pushed Barry so he didn't need to. Holy shit Barryfags are retarded. Barry couldn't be as fast as Wally so Wally had to push him.
>>93864556
>Wally has been shown to be faster than Barry multiple times and it is even said in the comics and in Rebirth
>YOU ARE BIASED
No, I just read comic books you idiot.

>Barryfags ruin another Flash thread
Fucking CW casuals.

>>93864569

That means absolutely nothing since it's still your opinion.

Making "I read comics books hurr" not a good defense against libel.

>>93864569
It had nothing to do with speed. Barry didn't know how to cope with travelling through the Speed Force. Wally gave him some advice, and voila, Barry immediately learned in seconds what it took Wally like 100 comics to get good at. Because Barry is faster and better.

The entire point of Wally's own character arc is that Barry is the ideal he strives to live up to. Barry necessarily has to be better than Wally or he loses his place as the ideal.

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>>93862350

>>93864613
>Facts are opinions
>>93864619
In no point during Rebirth has it been shown that Barry is faster than Wally while on the other hand it has been literally stated that Wally is faster than Barry multiple times.

>>93864569
Wally's never been shown to be faster than Barry. It's not like we've actually seen them seriously race even if Wally says he could beat Barry in a race.

Like I said, the people literally running the Flash franchise right now say Barry is faster. What more do you want? and this was before the pacemaker shit.

>>93864553
No, the characters are tools for writers to tell stories with. And because of this that means interactions do not always play out exactly like they should simply because the story demands it be different.
I'll also add to everyone in this thread that arguing about power levels is the most fucking basement dweller of a thing to do, but you all are clearly having fun so carry on.

>>93864454
or just tell me, anon.

>>93864619
>The entire point of Wally's own character arc is that Barry is the ideal he strives to live up to
You didn't read the comic. Pretty early in Waids run Wally beat Barry's speed. In fact Wally has been faster than Barry for 25 years now.
>>93864655
>I never read the comics
It's literally the entire point of The Return of Barry Allen
>the people literally running the Flash franchise right now say Barry is faster
Who? Give me the quote? Since this has never been the case in the comics. Read the fucking comics faggot.

>>93863752
>Zoom
Wasn't that Hunter Zolomon?

>>93864643

Your opinion, is not fact.

>>93862350
Just outrun the time stop

>>93864655
>Wally's never been shown to be faster than Barry
Why don't you actually read the comics? It has literally been stated AND SHOWN dozens of times
>>93864709
See above.

>>93864643
Aside from the fact that Rebirth established the fact that Barry is the source of the Speed Force and thus Wally's power is literally only a fraction of Barry's power that Wally gets, right?

Or the fact that Thawne was clearly significantly faster than Wally and Barry was equal to Thawne.

Or that Wally couldn't even perceive Lady Savitar and Barry beat her effortlessly.

Wally is necessarily weaker than Barry. He always will be. The only time Wally can be "better" is when Barry is dead. So until that happens (keep dreaming Wallyfags) you better learn to cope.

>>93864730
>He is the source of the speedforce
Doesn't make him faster. By that retarded shit logic Barry should have always been the fastest speedster but that isn't the case.
>Or the fact that Thawne was clearly significantly faster than Wally
When? Wally has outran death itself faggot.
>He is weaker, he always will be
Except he even stated in rebirth that he was faster.

>>93864682
>You didn't read the comic. Pretty early in Waids run Wally beat Barry's speed. In fact Wally has been faster than Barry for 25 years now.

Not really, though. I mean they said shit but Barry was WAY faster than light. When they said Wally was faster than Barry it was when Wally just barely exceeded lightspeed.

Post Crisis retcon, I suppose, but if you want to use retcons then the fucking Flash Rebirth retcon changed all of that.

https://twitter.com/bcunningham71/status/866372505711255552

There's Brian Cunningham, the Flash editor, citing Barry created the Speed Force and that makes him faster than Wally.

>>93864730
Wasn't Barry being the source of the Speedforce retconned? I don't remember so I could be wrong. Not the same Anon btw.

>>93864730
Wally has a much higher max speed. There have been very small instances where Barry went and thought faster than Wally but that is because Wally's powers increase depending on the situation. Wally isn't always instant travel level and neither is Barry.
>>93864791
>Not really
Except it was explicitly stated

>>93864805

No, he's still the source of it.

>>93864769
It was a retcon, so of course it's not going to be perfectly congruous with everything that came before. Wally "surpassed" Barry in The Return of Barry Allen but wasn't even light speed. Jay Garrick was fucking lightspeed in his first comic.

>>93864791
>Editor
And yet the actual writers say differently. He also said he doesn't think which is far from the word of god.

>>93864805
Nope, Flash editor confirmed it's still the case.

>>93864820
>Jay Garrick was fucking lightspeed in his first comic.
I need a source on this shit since I actually read it and he could rarely outrun a bullet.

>>93864816
Wally is never at instant travel level. That was him getting a temporary power boost from both the population of Earth and the population of Kwyzz. That was not Wally being faster than anyone. You could've swapped out Wally for anyone else and they can do the same thing because that wasn't Wally's speed.

>>93864866
Except he ran at infinite speed. Adding numbers up together doesn't equal infinity. It was Wally learning how to bend the 4th dimension that did that. Even then you have Wally outrunning death.

>>93862350
>>93862452
>>93863752
New52 Zoom did this with Barry, countering him all the time... except for the bullshit ending, where they didn't know how to beat the OP Zoom and went with some bullshit like "speed depends on time and distance passed, but u only slow time, while the Flash passes distance, so I'm suddenly faster now!"

In Johns's Blitz arc of the old New Earth Wally West comics Wally had to steal every other good speedster's powers to be able to stay on the same level as Zoom, and even then he was slower and won by a lucky shot throwing Hunter into one of the time reaps he's been opening by using his timeforce powers.

>>93864898
It was that and him running through the same portal in space as the big bad. He still had extra time to adjust every radio station on Earth to the same station though.

>>93864846
That doesn't mean shit. Barry might have created it but he is still worse than other speedsters at using it.

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>>93864865
It's all narration but it happens multiple times. I mean it was comics for children so I wouldn't worry too much about the depth or consistency of the writing.

The main point was that Barry was going lightspeed forever. The Return of Barry Allen's version of Wally was nowhere near that fast.

>>93864686
Yes, the second Zoom (and arguably the THIRD Reverse-Flash), the one without the "Professor" moniker.

>>93864898
But he needed all of that power from the people to do that. Otherwise he wouldn't have asked for it.

It was just time travel anyhow. He ran through the fourth dimension, which is time, and appeared there before the race started. Not that big a deal.

>>93864918

Why do wallyfags keep bringing it up if it doesn't matter to you?

>>93864931
That got retconned. Jay and Barry were only able to go light speed after Barry gave Jay the speedforce and Barry died in it.

>>93864918
Except for in the very comic they establish it where Barry is better and faster than all the other speedsters.

>>93864898
Barry also outran Death. Nothing new.

>>93864966
Because I am sick of idiots who don't read comic books and only watching the CW show getting shit wrong.
>>93864981
Source nigger.

>>93864974
Lots of things get retconned. The most recent relevant retcon is the "Barry is the Speed Force" retcon which trumps any other argument. Wally's literally just an offshoot of Barry's power. The people in charge who write the comics agree.

Barry is the fastest Flash. Wally gets to keep calling himself The Flash as a courtesy.

>>93864952
>Is able to go back in time in a way no one else has been able to
>not a big deal
Barry still needs the treadmill to go back or forward in time.
>>93865011
That is a retarded argument. Just because Barry created the speedforce doesn't mean he is the fastest. If that were the case then he should have been the fastest the second he got his powers.
If I create a skateboard does that mean no one is able to ride it better than me?

>>93864999
Final Crisis. Have YOU read comics?

>>93865011
If i created a gun is no one able to shoot it better than me?

What's Flashes relationship with the Source, btw?

>>93865017

I think the other anon's argument is because of the recent retcon, well, relatively recent, barry now being source of the speedforce changed things.

>>93865052
I did, what about it?
It is still cannon and stated that Wally is faster.

>>93865017
Barry broke the speed of light dozens of times. His death in COIE was literally narrated by him going hundreds of times the speed of light.

But even if that didn't matter, that's not the point. This comic is from the 90s. You're 20 years out of date. Barry's the fastest NOW. He has been since he came back.

Here's a really fucking easy way to tell who the fastest is: Who's the star of The Flash? Who's the main Flash?

When Wally was the main Flash he was the fastest, sure. But he's not. He hasn't been since 2009. Since then Barry has been the fastest. The second Barry came back he was immediately superior to Wally purely because he's the main Flash and Wally's the spinoff/offbrand version.

>>93864655
>Wally's never been shown to be faster than Barry.
I know this is bait, but even if we disregard all the New Earth stuff as no longer canon (even though it's more like in a limbo of uncertain canonicity), there is still the latest Williamson's run on the Flash.

And like an issue or two ago, Barry gave us the CURRENT official ranking:
>Thawne is faster than me... Faster than even Wally!

That's what we have right now. Wally got slower after the pacer incident, but last Titans issue he suddenly discovered that it somehow gives him Zoom powers (almost a full time stop on the level of Hunter Zolomon or New52 Thawne).

>>93865059
That's a stupid fucking question. You have to build guns from other resources.

If you exuded guns spontaneously from your being you would have more access to guns than someone who picks up some of your leftover guns on the ground.

>>93865087
That's still a stupid argument. Someone who creates something isn't going to necessarily be the best at it. Wally is still able to use the speedforce far better than Barry. In fact even Barry said this himself.

>>93865102
Stating that Thawne is faster than Wally doesn't make Wally faster than Barry, what the heck? Barry doesn't even know how fast Wally is. Last he remembered of him he was Kid Flash. They've barely interacted since then.

>>93865120
And yet Barry himself said Wally is better at using the speedforce and it's been shown to be the case.
Barry himfucking self says you are wrong.

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>>93862350
>How are they going to balance this shit?

Bring back Zolomon and have him kick Wally's ass again.

>>93864730
>Aside from the fact that Rebirth established the fact that Barry is the source of the Speed Force
Being the nexus of Speed Force doesn't make him the most skilled in using it.

Generally, Wally is the most proficient Speed Force Wizard and the one able to bend it to achieve infinite speeds. HOWEVER, Barry, while not exactly the fastest Flash generally, can tap into infinite powers "when it counts", as in, during crisis events. I don't think Wally, much less Thawne, ever run so fast it ruptured the timeline itself.

>>93865122
Yeah, until Barry actually has to use it. Then he's got so much power he can destroy the universe because THE ENTIRE SPEED FORCE IS HIS POWER.

The second Barry feels like it Wally doesn't even have powers anymore.

>>93863690
He's a Japanese character who exclusively targets women.

He ain't buying them pizza.

>>93865148
>I have no reading comprehension

>>93865151
Yeah man, Wally can like, make clothes and shit out of Speed Force. He knows more tricks, I'll grant you. Barry's still faster. The fucking guy in charge of The Flash stated it as plain as day.

>>93865179
Holy shit you are retarded and clearly don't read comics. Barry can't consciously decide who does and doesn't get the speedforce. If that were the case then he would take it away from everyone that is evil.

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>>93865185

>>93865166

So barry's an idiot savant that trust's his arch nemesis to do the right thing instead of just being honest with the people he loves.

He jobs by stupidity. Why are we having a power level argument when that is the more important thing. He trusted thawne, again.

>>93865166
Thawne is the most proficient Speed Force Wizard. Thawne is basically Barry's power with even more skills than Wally.

Barry's still faster and more powerful than Wally no matter how many clothes Wally makes.

>>93865098
>Barry's the fastest NOW.
Not what he says himself in the current Flash run.

>Here's a really fucking easy way to tell who the fastest is: Who's the star of The Flash? Who's the main Flash?
Has nothing to do with the argument. Superbro or New Super-Man never surpassed pre-merged Superdad in power, didn't stop them from being the stars of their books.

>>93862350
The balance is probably linked to the pacemaker. Use it too much and he gets another heart attack. If he lasts three issues without a heart attack, I'll be surprised.

>>93865207
Wally is clearly even giving Barry some of his speed too.
Barryfags are either retarded, don't read comics or are trolling.

>>93865250

>Spoken by wallyfags that make daily bitch threads.

>>93865185
>>93865207

This has nothing to do with speed. Barry just didn't know the trick to running through the Speed Force. He's clearly fast enough. Speed isn't the problem, it's focus.

Like I said, at that time, Wally was certainly more knowledgable about the workings of the Speed Force. But Barry was necessarily faster, otherwise Wally could've stopped Thawne himself instead of Barry needing to do it.

They had to combine Wally's knowledge with Barry's SPEED and power to beat Thawne. Otherwise it wouldn't have been a challenge. Wally would've just beat Thawne from the getgo.

>>93865148
>Last he remembered of him he was Kid Flash. They've barely interacted since then.
In the very first Rebirth special Wally gives him (some) New Earth memories and Barry says that he shouldn't wear the Kid Flash suit, he's been the Flash all along.

Then the Titans annual when he's apologizing to Wally, a veteran League member, for the fact that the others don't recognize him as the Flash.

Barryfags need to go back to /tv/ this is pathetic.
>>93865266
That's funny since it's actually an autistic Barryfag that continues to make threads to complain.

>>93865223
Superman was weaker than Superbro when Superbro was alive. His powers were explicitly weakening and blinking in and out.

The second Superdad became the lead on the main Superman book his powers were fixed and he was now the most powerful (superbro was also dead). So thanks for adding to my point.

>>93865266
I bet you are that one faggot that makes the same thread every week asking why people like Wally over Barry and then getting butthurt when people explain why.

>>93865285

So you're saying the near daily wally threads are all falseflags by a single barryfag?

>>93865250
>Barryfags
It's just one baiting guy, who admitted as much during one of the storytimes. He doesn't care about Barry, but wants to bait Wallyfags.

>>93865250
Wally's not giving Barry speed there, what? They're both covered in lightning regardless. If he was Wally would be saying "Here, I'm lending you some of my speed to help you keep up." Or some shit.

The entire point of that book was that Barry's the best. Because he is.

>>93865313
>Wally threads
You mean like this one where someone made a thread talking about comic books and then a retarded Barryfag from /tv/ came over and shit it up?

>>93865308
>>93865285

With all this asshurt over wally being sidelined and shoved into a side tier book, yet you're trying to blame barryfags, for clear discontent of all these wallyfags.

Right.

>>93865330
You are the only one who brought it up. At least Titans is a better book than current Flash.

>>93865280
No, Barry only remembers his time as Kid Flash. Wally then INFORMS Barry of Wally's memories -- of him being The Flash and whatnot. So to that Barry backs Wally up and says he should put on a Flash suit because Barry loves Wally and supports him.

Barry's the best like that.

>>93864730
Barry is the source of Wally's powers.

Wally is so fast he's faster than his own powers.

>>93865330
>lost the speed argument
>Now goes WELL BARRY IS MORE POPULAR
kek.

>>93865306
>So thanks for adding to my point.
You have no point when the current Flash run states that it's Thawne>Wally>Barry.

Really, your bait is useless when the comics themselves were very much consistent on muh speedrankings. All you do is force more nerds to show off their power level.

>>93865348
Current Flash is awesome. This latest Thawne arc rules.

Titans is a dumpster fire. It's the same shit Titans from the last 20 years. Who's banging who? Who's the traitor? What will Donna Troy's origin be this week?

Welcome to Titans, it's awful.

>>93865375

How did you infer any of that from my post? are you just making shit up?

>>93865348

No, I pointed out daily wally threads and clear anger over being sidelined which is the truth and has nothing to do with barryfags.

You keep blaming shadows of your own rage though. Convenient targets aside.

>>93865375
That's actually a good point, though. Of course the more popular character who stars in the main Flash book will be established as superior to the side character no one cares about enough to buy his dumb book.

>>93865360
Barry now remembers Flash Rebirth so that's not true at all.
>>93865391
>Current Flash is awesome
Nope. The current writer is shit and he ruined The Button. On top of this all of his stories are just retailings of stuff everyone besides underage fags like you already read.

>>93865379
It's Thawne > Wally and Thawne > Barry. There's no Wally > Barry. The fucking guy in charge of the book you're citing said that Barry is faster. You're trying to read into phrasing super hard as if it established some hierarchy.

Here's some hierarchy for you. Barry's THE Flash. Wally's "a" Flash. They said as much in Wally's own book.

What I don't understand is the fact people keep bringing shit decades old like the characters are forever frozen in those achievements?
It's not impossible for a superhero to improve with time and eventually catch up and even surpass those on the top. That's why we train.

>>93865410
>Daily Wally threads
You mean like this one that was going nice until you got asshurt that people aren't talking about boring Barry.

>>93865410
>>93865412
>There's two of them now.

Just why?

>how are they going to balance this shit?

It's a comic book, not League of Legends.

>>93865415
I'm not sure what Barry actually remembers right now with Thawne's shenanigans, but we were talking about the immediate post DCUniverse Rebirth conversations.

If you don't like Thawne using time travel to fuck with Barry in the most hilarious and petty and awful ways possible then go read a Batman comic or something. This shit is peak Flash.

>>93865426

Right but if a character you loved was sidelined and felt marginalized, wronged as it were, wouldn't you fight for any scrap to right that wrong?

If all you have is perceived status in a hierarchy, left over from when you were top dog, why wouldn't they fight for that?

Nobody likes losing.

>>93865425
>The fucking guy in charge of the book you're citing said that Barry is faster.

Writer himself said Wally beat Barry in a race back in issue 9, what are you talking about?

Cunningham was corrected by others, including Williamson during that twitter convo.

>>93865425
You have no reading comprehension. It's clearly stated multiple times and even then that Wally is faster. When someone says
>He is faster than me, EVEN FASTER THAN WALLY
It clearly implies that Wally is faster.

>>93865437

Again where can you infer any of that? Stop making shit up.

>>93865448

You do realize they're a lot more than just two barryfags right?

>>93865482
All Flash fans are losing because the book has been shit for the last 10 years.

>>93865483
Wally was getting niggerWally a pep talk. I'd take that with a bigger grain of salt than the dude LITERALLY IN CHARGE of The Flash saying that Barry's the fastest.

>>93865504
>Where can you infer that
The fact that every Wally thread starts out nice until a single Butthurt Barryfag comes in.
>A lot more than just 2 Barryfags
Nope. Every time there is a poll Wally gets like 90% of the votes with Jay taking 2nd place.
>>93865525
He isn't the writer or Johns.

>>93865525
Except someone corrects him and he says
>Well don't I feel silly. I don't recall that, but I guess Wally believes it.
Read your own fucking link faggot.

>>93865542

I haven't seen a thread in years dealing with speedsters so which one are you citing? And is it still on desu, I'd be curious to see them.

>>93865487
Source?

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>>93865525
Stay butthurt faggot

What's stated in canon >>>> some random tweet that has no effect on the book.

Unless Barry beats Wally on the page, we've been informed that Wally has beaten Barry in a race and Thawne is the only one possibly faster than him.

>>93865600
The last 3 Flash rebirth issues.
>>93865601
Not only that but the man who made the tweet himself said he was wrong.

>>93865482
>If all you have is perceived status in a hierarchy, left over from when you were top dog, why wouldn't they fight for that?
Because it's pointless, both characters are great and who's faster is kinda irrelevant.
Besides, there's clearly a side of the conversation that refuses to be objective and it's too sensible/defensive about their favorite. But fuck my mother if I'm taking a side on this trivial shitflinging.

>>93865482
Wally still is the top dog. He is the most powerful speedforce user.

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Artist on the Flash and Titans explaining the lightning.

>>93865581
Boy you must have no tact for conversation. He didn't say it was true, he said Wally thinks he's faster -- hint, that's Cunningham saying that it's only what Wally believes, not the truth.

>>93865617
I don't remember Barry going "EVEN FASTER THAN WALLY" in the last 3 Flash issues. So, again, Source?

I remember Barry saying Thawne was faster than him, but I don't even think he mentions older Wally.

>>93865656
>Boy don't I feel silly
You are illiterate

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>>93865651

>>93865622
>The Fastest Man Alive
>Who's faster is irrelevant

ya huh, so irrelevant that it's the most important descriptor of their heroic identity

>>93865656
besides the fact that your link is proven to be bogus, do you have any CANON arguments?

because wally has canon on his side.

>>93865656
This has to be trolling. There is no way someone can perform mental gymnastics so well.

>>93865647

And yet he is a secondary flash, which is your people's entire problem and reason why these threads keep getting made.

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>>93865696

>>93865651
Booth's an idiot who has no say in the actual creative process. He even agrees that his own lightning stuff is just his headcanon and has no bearing in the comics.

>>93865696
>>93865651
Stop this. Barry fans don't read comics, they jst watch the show.

>>93865737
This thread was about Titans anon. You are the person getting butthurt.
Though people wouldn't care about Titans so much if Flash rebirth wasn't so shit.

>>93865726
>Someone disagrees with me, they must be trolling!

I get Wallyfags only love Wally because they think he's the most powerful. It sucks that he lost that position back in 2009. But it's the fact of the matter.

>>93865737
>your people
You mean the vast majority of /co/ who read comics before New52 and actually care about the characters of the comics?
>>93865776
No, people like him because Barry is a boring character and hasn't had a good comic in nearly 40 years.

>>93865767
Flash Rebirth is much better than Titans. Better villains, better main character, better writer, better artist (not counting fill ins).

>>93865767
>>93865789

No, I mean wallyfags that are angry he is in a secondary book and not the main one.

>>93865622
Yeah, I don't care who's the fastest Flash either desu, I like them both. All I want is another Flash title with Wally as lead or a Flashfam book and I'll be happy. Wally is getting really underutilized atm and it sucks, same for Bart and Jay not being around yet.

>>93865789
Wally hasn't had a good comic since 2005, so what? Dastardly Death was good. Flash Rebirth, both, were quite good. Better than that shit Wally was putting out before Barry salvaged the franchise.

Barry's the most popular best selling DC hero besides Batman. So even if you find him boring most people think he's the second most interesting character at DC.

>>93865795
>Better writer
Read The button Part 1 and then Read the Button part 2.
Williamson is a shit writer and doesn't know how to write speedsters.
>>93865806
I would rather a character I like be in a decent one than a shit one written by a shit writer.

>>93865827
>B-But sales!
So? I don't own Warner brothers stock so I don't give a shit. I care about quality. The Flash hasn't been good in years. I am not even a Wallyfag, I wanted Bart to take his place.
Flash rebirth is shit and you have shit tastes.

>>93865828
Tom King is better than Williamson, sure. I'm not comparing Titans or Flash to Batman or Vision or whatever.

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>>93863323
We need more great men like Stopman

>>93865843
If you want to judge how much interest there is in a character then sales are pretty important. It's how we know Batman is by far the most popular DC character.

If you care about quality, then Wally hasn't been quality since you were probably in grade school.

>>93865847
Flash is bad in general. He can't write a flash book. He doesn't know how to write a speedster. Even Titans had a better more "flash" comic in Wally's first few issues.

>>93865884
>I am losing the argument so let me just randomly bring up sales!
Barry is a shit character, the books he has been in are shit. You are a retarded CW fag that came into this thread to shit it up.

Why do Barry CW kids come into every Wally thread and show everyone how asshurt they are?
I don't see people do it in Flash Rebirth threads.

>>93865905
Barry is DC's Captain Marvel (not Carol). His death is the best and most notable thing about him.

>>93865885
Running Scared is better than anything in Titans. His Rogues arc was good. Godspeed was pretty cool, too, though Wallyfags just bitch about MUH ZOLOMON MUH ORIGINALITY as if Wally didn't make a career off reusing Barry's shit.

It's fucking hilarious how they bitch out Godspeed for being a "bad" retread of Blitz when The Return of Wally West is just an AWFUL retread of Terminal Velocity. Wallyfags, everyone. I bet you fucking liked Waid's run with the kids, too, huh?

>>93865958
Captain Marvel can't sell for shit and her comics are bad.

Barry sells like hotcakes and his comics are great.

>>93865930
Because people reply to them. If you just ignore and report then they move on.

>>93865963
>Godspeed was pretty cool
The most generic evil speedster is so cool and original. Just admit that you only recently started reading Flash.
>Wally made a career of using Barry's shit
But he improved it. The Rogues, Zoom, ect are who they are because of Wally's run.

>>93865981
>His comics are great
You better be talking about the Silver age.

>>93865930
Because in Flash Rebirth threads there's no Wallyfags who ruin everything.

The point of this thread was if Wally was DA MOST POWERFUL now. Someone mentions no, Barry's actually dealt with this exact power already and Wallyfags got their panties in a bunch over it.

>>93866028
But they didn't. You are lying, read this exact thread.

>>93866021
He has great modern comics, too. I mean there's been some duds like The Shade or Venditti's stint but most of his stuff since his return has been good. Much better than the Wally garbage he replaced.

>>93866028
>Wallyfags
You mean 99% of /co/?

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>>TFW every flash thread will forever be derailed by robinfag tier whining from Autists about muh power level

CW flash was a mistake,speed force power levels were a mistake

>>93866051
>Had some great
Nope. New52 was shit and Rebirth is mediocre, I would know because I read them.

>>93866036
Go read the first very Barry comment in this thread. It's a benign statement of fact in response to the OP. Then a dozen asspained Wally lovers swarmed like angry hornets to protect their precious husbando from the evil Barry fans.

You ask why Barry threads aren't garbage and Wally threads are. Well there's one obvious solution.

>>93866064
That's what happens when the comic itself goes to shit. This is true for /v/ too. When videogames are good then /v/ is good, when videogames are shit /v/ is shit because there is nothing to talk about.

>>93866064
I know you're trying to kind of salvage some camraderie between Wally and Barry with this image but it's pretty ironic that you use the picture where he calls a full grown man "kid." It'd be like posting pics of when Jay called Wally "junior."

>>93866087
Someone simply corrected him that Barry is at best the 3rd fastes speedster. This is a fact that caused the butthurt.

>>93865651
>was did
Is this english?

>>93866078
Manapul's run was good. It didn't have the same highs as Waid's runs but it didn't have the same lows, either.

The original Rebirth and Dastardly Death were immediate improvements on Wally's comics. What more do you want besides immediate massive improvement?

>>93866087
>lose speed argument
>WELL I HATE WALLYFAGS
Kek. How does it feel being one of a dozen Barryfans on /co/? There are even more Carol fans than you.

>>93866125
Yeah, some idiot lied because he couldn't stand the fact that Barry's better than Wally. And it spiraled from there because, guess what, Wallyfags really care about power levels and can't stand the idea that DC favors Barry so of course they made him more powerful.

>>93866144
But they weren't. Sure you can say they were slightly better than Wally's shit run but they weren't good. Rebirth was mediocre and retarded "BARRY MADE ME THE FLASH" and had retarded retcons and the rest were mediocre to bad. Being an improvement from bad to slightly less bad doesn't make it good.

>>93866175
>Lied
The comic books are lies now?
>Only care about Powerlevels
And the fact that Wally is a much better and more 3 Dimensional character.

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>>93866113
The last time he saw Wally he was kid flash,calling him kid is less of a demeaning thing and more of father seeing his son all grown up in the future

also for the Barry beat time stop thing,Barry used white lightning for a brief period of time to counter act it,the same lightning Wally has I him 24/7 so I hardly count that as a victory

>>93866150
>Lose the speed argument

By lose you mean be clearly right? Just because a lot of idiots yell something at the top of their lungs doesn't make them right.

Oh no there's more Wally fans on /co/. There must be tens of them!

>>93866175
>lose the speed argument
>YOU ONLY CARE ABOUT POWER LEVELS
kek.

>>93866195
That's not fair! They stole most of his personality and gave it to Barry.

>>93866195
Barry's better and a 4 dimensional character. Whatever, I can state vapid platitudes, too.

Like I said, Wally hasn't had a good comic since 2005. 12 fucking years. He clearly isn't as good as you think he is.

>>93866197
>All those pages posted that clearly prove that Wally is faster with nothing to show otherwise
>N-No Barry is wrong when he said Wally is faster!

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>They are still replying to the lonely baiting troll

It's OK, guys. You showed you know your comic books. Stop being fooled like children.

>>93866196
Oh so Barry can, at will, access the power that Wally has. Go figure, it's almost like he's the source of all that power.

Doesn't change the fact that Barry explicitly can overpower time stop. Which is the only thing Wally does now.

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>>Barry couldn't kill him
>>Wally couldn't stop him
>>Death couldn't stop him

Why isn't the Top back yet bros,Captain cold got lucky he deserves a second shot

>>93862350
Make it a ranged ability.

>>93866221
>A character that isn't the main character hasn't had a good comic since he was the main character
Barry is just boring. This is why he has to be changed so much.
>>93866250
No he can't. Barry can't control the speedforce at all.

>>93866227
No one posted any pages of Wally being faster than anything. Wally's big moment was going the speed of light in his return, which is chump change to Barry.

>>93866255
Wally is running in a 4th dimensional hamster ball outside of which time is stopped.
That's just stupid enough to sell!

>>93866268
Except it was retconned and Wally was able to go trillions of times faster.

>>93866265
>posts a panel of Barry doing something with the Speed Force that no one else has ever done
>Barry can't control the Speed Force at all!!!!!!!!!!

>>93866268
Please post the page where Barry goes light speed desu
Also, please use a trip so I can keep up with all your cool posts.

>>93866286
He can't. Even Barry says Wally is better at the speed force stuff. Barry is just learning how to use the speedforce.

>>93866284
What was retconned? Titans? I'm talking about The Return of Wally West. Where he went the speed of light and it almost killed him. That's chump shit.

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>>93866250
At will is debatable he got it after being thrown into a corner and it left him after a few punches from Thawne that left them both on even ground,Wally's shit is 24/7

>>93866313
>It nearly killed him
It literally killed Barry until Rebirth.

>>93866302
sure thing anon!

Isn't Wally even Faster than barry in the TV show?

>>93866302
Heck he did it a couple of times in the first New 52 mob rule arc. Moved his head away at the last femtosecond and time traveled a bunch of radiation.

>>93866313
And it killed Barry for what? 24 years?

>>93866360
>doesn't even know what a trip is
Why am I not surprised.

>>93866378
No, post an actual page.

>>93866314
Wally's shit isn't 24/7. It's very limited and only when his heart acts up. As soon as he calms down it ends.

>>93866275
That's one of the few ways to balance a time stop ability. If a character stops time everywhere, that's too overpowered. If a character stops time in a limited area its a more balanced ability.

>>93866391

>As if i'm going to tripfag when namefagging does the same thing

Old Wally>Thawne>Barry>Current Wally>Jay
Though we have no idea how strong current Wally's time stop is.

>>93866391
Nigger I just gave you the comics. I'm not gonna go clip a bunch of shit off a free comics site. If you don't read comics and don't know what I'm talking about then it's wasted on you. Anyone who read New 52 Flash knew exactly what I was talking about.

>>93866414
Old Barry > Old Wally

Nothing beats Silver Age.

>>93866362
That guy does not care about Barry, not really. He is baiting, and the anons just can't stop replying.

Man, Wallyfags really lost it, did they.

This makes me enjoy Barry more and more.

>>93866430
I disagree simply because the writers hadn't heard of an attosecond back then. So Wally got to do some complete bullshit because of it.

>>93866362
Definitely not in the show. I think the thing in the show was Wally was improving faster than Barry did, but he still hadn't caught up to Barry.

>>93866453

It's only going to get worse as new movie comes out and more of tv show and more comics, lots and lots of barry. All the time.

>>93866458
Attosecond was Barry.

Back then they would say things like "FASTER THAN AN INSTANT" or whatever. Simpler terms but same ridiculous narration.

>>93866430
Not true. While everyone else was getting nerfed past silver age 90s Wally was crazy.

Haven't read anything since that crossover with the TT

is his heart still fuck

>>93865870
I think that's not how tears work

>>93866495
90s Wally doesn't exist anymore in the same way that Silver Age Barry doesn't exist anymore. SA Barry was just like SA Superman. His most ridiculous moments can't really be matched.

Wally did some insane things but not quite Silver Age insane.

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Jojo spoiler but just give Wally time limits or bursts,give him zolomons weakness of not being able to run on water etc

>>93865817
I'd like them to make a comic where both flashes are the protagonists and work as a team of speedsters, fighting together most of the time.

>>93866529
Name me one thing as crazy as 90s Flash.
Silver age supes went a 1000 times the speed of light but 90s Flash went across the entire universe instantly, outran death, could travel through time at will, ect.

Williamson is a hack and can't write Flash. When will he leave so it has a chance of being decent?
More importantly when will Barry leave and give the mantle to Wallace?

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>>93866579
>>Speedforce book about the flash fan similar to detective comics,Action comics and green lantern corps books never ever

>>93862350
Barry > Wally

>>93866647
Which is weird because it would sell.

>>93866476
And frankly I LOVE Wally and yet was excited to see Barry back, since to me he's part of the Silver Age OG and thus the standard. I think having the original Big Six JLA founders back together and headlining the books since the 80s was really cool.

I don't disagree Wally got screwed. My thing is just seeing WallyFANS flip out. That Wally came back at all shows how indispensible he'll always be to DC lore.

>>93866668

>>93866683 here, I agree entirely. If anyone has a superfamily book that'd hope to compete with Batfamily in popularity, it's not even Superman, it's Flash.

>>93866667
0/10

>>93866668
It wouldn't. I think you overestimate how many people care about the miscellaneous Flash folks.

Heck Flash's sales are only so high because of the shitty tv show, sadly.

>>93866822

Anon, you're going to respect Barry's Big Corporate Synergy™

>>93866581
Silver Age Superman "broke the bonds of infinity" he went so fast.

Silver Age Barry punched people so hard they ended up years in the future. He traveled the entire universe faster than an instant. If you want to use a temp power up like Human Race then Barry once fought Silver Age Spectre evenly. COIE Barry was basically a god in the novelization.

>>93866683
He came back and was immediately shoved into a containment book. He's not indispensable to shit. Johns likes him and brought him back, but DC immediately dispensed with Wally when they stuck him in the holding pattern that is Titans.

>>93863759
I don't think "Wawa's bizarre adventure" has the same ring to it.

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>>93866822
Bart's got a fair amount of fans from his own book + the young justice days in the 90s and the tv show,Jesse and Jay were fan favourite a in JSA,Wally fans would buy the book in a heartbeat.

Get Geoff johns to write and you've got a promising series that could last a while,look at GLC during the Johns era GL,Guy,Kyle and John were able p hold the book based of there old fans even after Hal became the main,I think a Speedforce book could do the same,

it just need decent art,a good writer and a good name for the cover so not more get what it's about,hell Jessica and Baz can hold a team book with decent writing,art and title I can't see why a flash senpai book couldn't

>>93866987
I'm telling you right now there are not enough Wally fans to support a book that isn't called "The Flash."

The reason they brought back Barry in the first place was Wally's sales were in the gutter. The only thing they've done since is slowly prune what little fanbase Wally had left by focusing on Barry.

A Wally West book wouldn't debut above 50k and would be below 20k in less than 10 issues. The Flash is what sells, regardless of who it's focusing on.

Geoff's too busy to write Shazam, no way he's got time for a second rate Flash book.

>>93867039
Calm down anon,I didn't say Wally west fans were the only ones who'd maintain the book,I'm just saying that at least 3 of the flash family have enough of a nostalgic interest or at least intrigue of new glad readers to hold the book,GLC wasn't held up by Rayner or Guy Gardnerfags only,just people who knew them from back in the day,were new the green lantern and were interested in the other guys etc,if Baz and Jessica can hold a book I can't see why Bart,Wally,Jesse and Jay couldn't hold it up with Barry crossing over a few times like Hal did during major shit

>>93862350
Like thye do with everything else in DC, have him not go into a fight with the intent on putting his foe down ASAP, or have the token love interest be taken hostage and let him spend 10 seconds standing there staring, or have him forget about his ability long enough for the baddie to get a few good hits in.

>>93867156
Baz and Jessica can hold a book because it's the main Green Lantern book and they're still huffing fumes from the momentum of Geoff Johns' monumentally successful GL run. Flash doesn't have the kind of build up to support a secondary book.

A Wally book might've had a chance if they made it IMMEDIATELY after Rebirth aired and they actually followed up on some of the Rebirth mystery in it. They didn't so that spike of interest people had from Rebirth has all but faded, as we can see by Titans' declining sales.

The problem from DC's perspective is Titans will sell better than a Wally solo, but a significant portion of Titans' sales are because it's THE Wally book. If you make another Wally book you're basically splitting the readers. You'll end up with a 30k Titans book and a 20k Wally book while having to pay another team to do Wally's book. They'd rather just have a 40-50k Titans book and call it that.

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>>93867039
>>The flash is what sells regardless of who it's focusing on

>>implying

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>>93867221
I just want them back anon :(

>>93867222
If you go look at sales Bart actually STOMPS both Barry and Wally. They just ended it before it could plummet to minimum levels.

>>93867281
Do you though? With how DC treats anyone but Barry?

Maybe Jay would be ok. He'd get contained in JSA like Wally is in Titans and JSA is bound to be better than the shitfest that is Titans.

But no one wants Iris back.

>>93862350
How the hell would stopping time be useful to a speedster they have shown time and time again that their so fast that time isn't a concept that bounds them.

>>93866860
I need a source on that

>>93867039
>2nd most popular franchise
>Not enough fans to support a book
Wally has consistently polled as one of the most popular heroes.

>>93867222
This is true though. Old Barry sold like shit right before they killed him and that is true about Wally. It's not the character but how they push it.

>>93867548
Wally can't go fast right now without his heart giving out. So when he starts going fast and his heart starts racing, instead of him dying, time just gets slowed down to accommodate him. It's real dumb.

>>93866822
He would sell better than Batgirls 2 books, that's for sure.

>>93867683
Consistently polled on the internet. Dudes who walk into the LCS to buy Batman and JL peripherals don't give a fuck about Wally.

>>93867737
Considering Titans is selling better than it has in years because of Wally I am pretty sure it would sell decently.

>>93866717
>If anyone has a superfamily book that'd hope to compete with Batfamily in popularity, it's not even Superman, it's Flash.
Come on, Anon. We both know that's not true. I like the Flash family, but in popularity it's not even a contest.

>>93867761
Titans also got a big boost because of Rebirth, and while I don't care for it, is massively better in quality than it has been in about a decade. Wally's not the sole reason Titans sells, he's not even the only big character in the book.

>>93864686
Zolomon just went by "Zoom" Eobard was "Professor Zoom"

>>93867731
I don't think so. Bat adjacents have more clout than Flash ones. The last time Flash supported a secondary book was Impulse back in its heyday.

People who read Flash right now barely know who the Flash family or Wally are. They think of Wally as the black kid like in the show, not as our Wally.

>>93867761
Titans has the, well, teen titans fanbase and the Dick fanbase. Dick alone supports a solo, after all.

Wally's fanbase maybe makes up half of Titans sales, if that? That's not enough to support a book.

>>93867834
>Titans also got a big boost because of Rebirth, and while I don't care for it, is massively better in quality than it has been in about a decade.

Damning with faint praise. Still a pretty subpar book and the declining sales show it. It had a stronger start because of the Rebirth hype but that book is doomed to eventually fall below the vaunted 30k mark.

Why isn't Titans selling? The story isn't the greatest ever but I think its decent.

Do people have an issue with the roster or are some readers ignoring the book because they want Wally to have a bigger role?

>>93868313
It's selling decently for what it is, which is a mediocre crossover. And I mean actually mediocre, not mediocre as code for fucking awful. There's no real hook outside of "see these characters you like from other books," so they can't gain new readers and inevitably are just going to shrink further.

>>93868360
This. I like it but the reasons titans sold is because it was all of the side kicks together but now none of these people are side kicks any more.

>>93868707
Titans is outselling Teen Titans, the book with the only actual sidekicks (and the most recognizable Titans).

I don't understand why he needs time manipulation powers whewns he's faster than anything ever

>>93868728
Dick Grayson is the most recognizable Titan.

>>93868728
That is the amazing part. I am pretty sure it's due to Wally/old school flash fans who need something.

>>93867719

So Wally isn't even relying on the speedforce anymore? He's just got the same exact power that Hunter Zolomon had gotten?

>>93868994
It seems to be stronger if it is a true time stop.

>>93862350
It's a cape comic. It's only going to be around for like 2 more issues and then they'll change authors and retcon everything.

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That's good and all, but where is my Flash videogame?

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>>93869314

I wanna know this too. I'm sick of all the batman games. I get that he's the easiest to make money off of, but it seriously can't be that DANGEROUS to make a Flash game, especially with the TV show and the Flash appearing in Justice League, right?

>>93868994
No, it's still Speed Force. Speed Force is what's reacting to his weak heart and stopping time.

>>93869582
Super-speed is not a very easy or budget-friendly concept to pull off, and the Flash is big but not so big that his name would guarantee a best seller.

>>93869314
>>93869582
>Flash game
>It's Mario Kart but with speedsters

>>93869778
>What is Sonic the Hedgehog.
A Flash game wouldn't even be fun. It's just gonna be a retextured sonic.

>>93868728
I'll get flamed for saying this but TT is being held back by Damian. The main complaint I hear about the current run is him.

>>93863323
He'd win easy.

Stopman can stop time but he's limited by human reflexes. The woman almost actually kills him with a gun.

>>93862350
>balance
It's not a vidya