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Leviathan is headed straight for Atlantis! Can aquaman stop

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Leviathan is headed straight for Atlantis!

Can aquaman stop it?

[Spoiler]Lets have a thread about comparing the big two to less well know cape settings and have characters fight n stuff.[/spoiler]
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>>93757291
if has something that can crack leviathan's bullshitanium core?
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>>93758376
*if he has
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>>93758376
He's friends with Superman and can call Ancient deep sea spookos/gods

He also has a beard

And a dead son
>>
Leviathan's core is interdimensional bullshit.
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>>93757291
If Leviathan is jobbing he can inflict a few wounds and make him leave, now if he's bloodlusted aquaman is fucked... Hell I don't know maybe Leviathan has non Manton restricted hydrokinesis wich is bloodbending squared
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>>93757291
No, he could inflict superficial injuries at best. On the plus side, Atlantis is already underwater, so people wouldn't drown and Lev would just kill whoever got too close and destroy some buildings before getting bored and leaving.
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Leviathan isn't a standard kaiju. He's only 30ft tall. What he has is his space whale magic bullshit, with the water generation afterecho, which is more powerful on land than in water. He's also got the almost unlimited regeneration, as long as he has the core intact. And then there's the superspeed that can rip people in half with his tail.
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>>93758942
He also is a ticking time bomb, since if he stays in an area too long the constant tsunamis and geologic movements fuck everything up
>>
I just don't see how he could reliably hurt Leviathan. Even his trident shouldn't peirce too deep whatsoever, and Leviathan has no weak points. Awuaman's strong, but it's like a dude trying to fight a block of sandstone: he could batter away at him and he wouldn't hurt Leviathan all that much at all.
Meanwhile Leviathan does have claws so even though Aquaman will be resistant to the blunt slams from his water echo, Leviathan should still be able to hurt him pretty terribly.
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>>93757291
Literally who
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>>93760711
Leviathan is a kaiju from Worm
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>>93762286
>kaiju
ahem. Endbringer
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>>93757291
>Leviathan is headed straight for Atlantis!
>Can aquaman stop it?

Are you serious?

Leviathan tackles anywhere from 50 to 100+ of the toughest heroes Earth-Bet can throw at him, every few months.

Underwater, Leviathan is even faster than above water. He's able to move so fast underwater it's like he's teleporting.

He would kill Aquaman solo within thirty seconds of encountering him, and proceed to pulverize everything in Atlantis big enough to see.

They don't call those guys "Endbringers" because they are easy fights.

A better question would be, could the entire JLA stop him if they tried to fight him in the water.

I think they'd do pretty well at driving him off if they fought him on the land, but they'd lose members.
>>
Could you imagine a world where Endbringers exist but there are no heroes?
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>>93764007
But without Eidolon, they wouldn't exist.
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>>93764722
wait, what? I haven't finished Worm so i'll just take that as a spoiler
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>>93757291
Aquaman is maybe equal to Leviathan in speed underwater, and is comparible in terms of raw strength. However not only does Aquaman lack the offensive output to do serious damage, there's also the fact that if Leviathan will be in total control of the oceanic battlefield and if he stops jobbing for even half a second levi will just tear all the water out of Aquaman's body and leave him a desiccated corpse.

I'd say if you had 10 or 20 Aquamen they could drive off a normal jobbing Leviathan with losses. Non-jobbing Leviathan however could literally fight and kill through an unending horde of Aquamen until it runs out of space whale energy.
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>>93757291
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>>93764007

just nuke em
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>>93766247

[–]Wildbow 152 points 1 year ago*

> However, in both cases here, you're dealing with implied power - the Endbringers don't really demonstrate their full power, so we don't get to see such. We also don't know Saitama's upper reaches of power.

>So let me help settle this one by speaking definitively on the former. Word of God from the author of Worm (me) - Behemoth would die in one shot.
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>>93757291
Yes. Holy God yes. Arthur's telepathy worked on White Martians and a Starro so powerful Dream had to get involved.

You see this?

Your OC kaiju is not on this level.
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>>93766345
How many JLA tier threats can Worm Earth defeat?
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>>93757291
>Looks like Lilith plus Cloverfield

There hasn't been a cool looking Kaiju sense the 80's. Fuck this Earth.
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>>93766345
>Arthur's telepathy worked on White Martians and a starro.

Endbringers are not living creatures. They are programmed spacewhale robots constructed out of multiverse portals and entity shards.

It's armour is the density of a spiral galaxy and was never fighting at peak capacity until it fought scion mostly offscreen.
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>>93757291
>you could have read more than twenty classic works of literature
>you could have read the Quran, the Torah, the Holy Fucking Bible
>you could have educated yourself
>instead, you read Worm
Filth
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>>93766468
>religious books
>educate yourself
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>>93766468
>Implying the Bibble is better reading then Worm

Get fucked desu
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>>93766468
>Browses 4chan.
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>>93766477
>>93766478
You don't have to be religious to appreciate the most influential literature in human history.
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>>93757291
Everyone who keeps spamming this shitty webseries needs to kill themselves.
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>>93766458
>Blah Blah lovecraft non-biological monster robot

It worked on Starro it'll work on the donut steel.

Unless you want to seriously argue that a monster bigger than continents in its physical form and dangerous enough to attract Dream's attention is less of a threat than your donut steel.
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>>93766491
>>93766468
Harlequin Romance novels are better reading than Worm.

I mean just look at this creature. It's pathetic. Its design screams a lack of creativity. There's nothing interesting about it. There's nothing cool about it.
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>>93757291
There is not a single thing in Worm that is new or exciting for comicbook readers.

Control over massive amounts of water? Complete control over all forms of energy? Telepathy, Telekinesis and Precognition? A hero with a new power for every situation? A villain who can raise fallen heroes as their own personal army?

Really the only interesting part of Worm is the Entities themselves but the writer had to give them so many handicaps to make them beatable by the humans that if you set them down in Cosmic Marvel they'd be dead within a week.
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>>93766519
>There is not a single thing in Worm that is new or exciting for comicbook readers

The key to make a cape universe work is either go the Silver Age/Grant Morrison/Jack Kirby route with big widescreen adventures where the characters encounter weird and cool challenges or the Bronze Age/Stan Lee route with character drama.

Worm doesn't have uplifting adventures, nor does it have interesting character drama. It coasts by on power porn appealing to people that watched the cartoons but don't read the comics and realize its been done before.

>The Entities
>Interesting

They're babies first August Derleth.
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>>93766507
>His proportions were wrong – his calves and forearms seemed too long for his height, his clawed fingers and digitigrade feet doubly so.

>He moved with a languid sort of grace as he advanced through the spraying water.

>Gallons of water poured around him in the wake of his movements, roughly the same amount of mass as the body part that had just occupied the space. This ‘afterimage’ streamed down him and splashed violently against the water he waded through.

>The hard, featureless plain of Leviathan’s face was broken up only by four cracks or tears – one on the right side of his face, three on the left.

>In each of those dark gaps, the green orbs of his eyes glowed with a light that pierced through the rain.

>His head moved faster than the rest of him, twitching from one angle to the next like someone’s eyeball might flicker left, right, up and down, taking us all in, uncannily out of time with the rest of his body.

Lacking creativity my ass. This is an orgasmic piece of discription for a monster.
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>>93766600
>His proportions were wrong – his calves and forearms seemed too long for his height, his clawed fingers and digitigrade feet doubly so.

The same elongated arm shit that was already cliche when Cloverfield did it years ago.


>He moved with a languid sort of grace as he advanced through the spraying water.

So every kaiju ever?

>Gallons of water poured around him in the wake of his movements, roughly the same amount of mass as the body part that had just occupied the space. This ‘afterimage’ streamed down him and splashed violently against the water he waded through.

This reads like an autistic trying to describe something he doesn't have the words for. "Roughly the same amount of mass as the body part that had just occupied the space" reads horribly.

I can't believe he actually wrote "afterimage".

>The hard, featureless plain of Leviathan’s face was broken up only by four cracks or tears – one on the right side of his face, three on the left.

Evangelion DONUT STEEL face

>In each of those dark gaps, the green orbs of his eyes glowed with a light that pierced through the rain.

Now we have rain, and dripping after images, and churning water, and he's still somehow moving with a "languid grace".

The writer isn't writing this as a complete idea. He's stapling together bits of description he thinks are cool without having a complete mental picture of what he's doing. This reads like a first draft.

>His head moved faster than the rest of him, twitching from one angle to the next like someone’s eyeball might flicker left, right, up and down, taking us all in, uncannily out of time with the rest of his body.

That shaky head shit from Jacob's Ladder that all the horror themed JRPGs do because Silent Hill did it.


>This is an orgasmic piece of description for a monster

You're like a deprived child getting excited over having a slice of bread to eat.
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>>93758376
He's got his trident. Endbringers are from a deterministic mundane-only universe, so a magic weapon would probably affect them like Space Whale bullshit their fuck you override can't turn off.
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>>93766661
>This reads like an autistic trying to describe something he doesn't have the words for. "Roughly the same amount of mass as the body part that had just occupied the space" reads horribly.
Plus it's a failed description. He's referring to volume - a copy of Leviathan made of water. Mass would probably be a whole lot more, given that water is less dense than Magic Space Crystal.
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>>93766662
The Trident hurt DARKSEID. And his alt-universe girl version hurt a Gentry corrupted Nix Uotan with her version of the trident.

It IS a weapon of a god after all. It's incredibly powerful and people always forget about it when talking about Aquaman fighting someone.

The OC Godzilla is fucked.
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>>93766519


What they don't have an excuse for is routinely forgetting all their other abilities. Like, the ability to make whatever you want with the ring is fine. That's the power alright? Nope. Green Lanterns can phase through objects. Turn invisible. Absorb, manipulate, and generate most types of energy, Manipulate time. Heal the user. alter matter. Manipulate and alter minds and be used for a whole bunch of ridiculous technological tricks, from scanning entire sectors of space to being a finger mounted super computer.

Characters really don't have much of an excuse to keep forgetting their other abilities while also leaving them open as always being present in future issues.

Worm powers are single powers and some powers will hardcounter other powers. It's very much like what you see in jojo or
HunterxHunter.
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>>93766519
I liked Scapegoat
Otherwise all of Wildbows works suffer from focus and scale. I don't even want to talk about Twig.
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>>93766468
>telling other people they're wasting their time while browsing /co/
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>>93763751

Superman could probably take out Leviathan, but only by bodily hurling him into space.

Behemoth would probably be another matter, in that he can mount a lot more resistance against someone's attempt to lift and toss him around.

If Simurgh got near Superman the world would already be fucked regardless of how the fight went.
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>>93766542
>They're babies first August Derleth.
You're comparing apples to oranges.
>>
I'm not very familiar with comic book superheroes, but the sheer amount of BS involved makes me think that they would have an easier time driving them away than the wormverse.
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>>93767238
>I'm not very familiar with comic book superheroes

Your typical Worm fan ladies and gentlemen.

Take this shit to trash or /a/.
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>>93766258

>All those powerlevelfags getting shut down hard.
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>>93767249
>/a/
Fucking retard.
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>>93767266
Worm is anime trash discussed as superheroes.
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>>93767281
How?
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>>93766698
The average comicbook character is 60+ years old and has had dozens upon dozens of writers who sometimes disagree with each other over what power the character has. The average anime character has had one writer. Worm has just one writer.
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>>93767249
> Go back to /a/
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>>93767185

Khonsu he'd need to beat down the old fashioned way due to teleporting. I'm pretty sure Superman does still age, albeit very slowly, so those time bubbles could seriously fuck him up. Even more so because I'm pretty sure he can stop solar radiation from entering them, so Superman would be spending who knows how many years with no access to sunlight. Probably the trickiest of the Endbringers by far for him to fight.

Bohu would get bodied, there's not much a nearly immobile target can do to Superman.

Tohu, assuming for a moment she'd be copying DC Earth capes, potentially having the powers of The Flash, Superman, and Martian Manhunter simultaneously, or any other triple combination of DC's hero/villain population, is a terrifying though. Even assuming she can still only copy other Wormverse powers, there's a lot of potential combinations that would make her very dangerous for Superman to fight (even something as simple as a Thinker power to determine Superman's red sun weakness, then a solar-manipulation power to bathe him in it).
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>>93767336
God the other endbringers were so badly handled. But Wildbow did say he would rewrite the time skip in the edited version, so I have my hopes up.
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>>93767185
>superman would punch levi's core and it would die
>superman would get a knockdown drag out fight with behemoth and eventually overwhelm it's powers enough to kill it
>superman would get mindcontroled by ziz for a bit and then either get saved by the justice league or just snap out of it at the most dramatic moment
>>
Did anyone even read Worm for the Endbringer fights?
Feels kinda dumb to read Worm and all you're getting from it is some powers and stats for your Who Would Win debates. Always thought that the characters and personalities were the biggest draw in the story. And none of the Endbringers have any personality whatsoever.
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>>93767336
>I'm pretty sure Superman does still age
http://dc.wikia.com/wiki/Kal-El_(DC_One_Million)
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>>93767392
I didnt even know the endbringers were a thing when I started reading it. Taylor immediatly hooked me in.
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>>93767392
The Endbringers are monster attacks, not characters and ziz is totally a character anyway.
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>>93767405

Could he accomplish that without access to any yellow sunlight for thousands of years?
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>>93767392
Honestly I've tried getting into Worm but the MC is too pathetic for me to take seriously, if she can't even fight back against her bullies how am I supposed to believe she can save the world?
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>>93767376
What would the collateral damage be like?

If Supes killed an Endbringer, which spawned 2 more, and destroyed a country in the battle (like Japan did with Leviathan) I can't see how he'd get out of that one without everyone on Earth hating him.
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>>93767436
What part did you stop at? She does start to fight back against them around arc 4, and they gradually become a non issue as the story goes on.
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>>93767436
She stops going to school after arc 4 or so. It gets better for her the farther she falls into villain life.
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>>93767256
The thread the quote came from had a rule that you needed to point to canon feats when you made a claim like that, and Wildbow said the punch that beat Boros would be strong enough to kill Behemoth.

Someone else pointed out that that directly contradicted previous statements about needing to get through some bullshit amount, like a galaxy's worth, of matter to reach Endbringer cores, and then Wildbow stopped responding.
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>>93767392
I think a large part of it is that the author is really vague about what their limits are, while simultaneously being really bad about "my story is special and nothing can beat it."
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>>93767464
I mean, the whole concept of the character is that he can beat anything in one punch. Which is why I think all vs debates involving him are completely pointless.
>>93767478
>while simultaneously being really bad about "my story is special and nothing can beat it."
Got an example of that?
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>>93767464
Wildbow tends to do that when he doesn't want to get pulled into pointless arguing. It's kind of annoying when he does respond, and it's just to troll. See his mathematician's answers.
>>
I just crushed all of Worm over the past two weeks, so I feel the need to comment.

Definitely not lacking creativity in the power dept, endbringers were cool and source of powers was neat lore. Trigger events were a cool concept.

The writing was at times fanfic tier, but I knew what I was getting in to. Definitely some forgettable parts that you can scroll through. Sometimes the action was hard to keep track of. The sheer amount of jobbing was the biggest real problem. But that's par for the course I guess...

To the OPs question, leviathan would mop the floor with him but then Taylor would do some bullshit and all of a sudden they'd win.

That actually never happened with endtinger fights but still.
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>>93767478

>while simultaneously being really bad about "my story is special and nothing can beat it."

Do you have some quotations to this effect?
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>>93767492
>but then Taylor would do some bullshit and all of a sudden they'd win.
>That actually never happened with endtinger fights but still
So why are you saying this then?
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>>93767478
>my story is special and nothing can beat it.

Strait up not true.

https://www.reddit.com/r/whowouldwin/comments/3ypzqb/saitama_vs_behemoth_worm/cyg54sf/
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>>93767443
P H A N T O M Z O N E
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>>93767525
>A gag character can beat it
People were already discussing it.

He also claimed that the Endbringers would beat the JL long term, because they'd grind them down due to the JL being unable to meaningfully damage them.
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>>93767520
He just wanted to let us know he's cheering on Taylor's side, because we all know that Skitter can do no wrong, and killing Alexandria was undisputed and fully justified victory, because Taylor is the queen of victorious escalation.
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>>93767449
>>93767461
Getting bullied is her backstory and how she got the power to become a hero. Sweeping it under the rug is really poor writing.
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>>93767520
Happened with every other major fight / S class threat. It definitely did happen with the endbringer fights in the sense that Taylor would somehow be as crucial / do as much damage as as the Triumvirate, but Scion won all those in the end.

Idk I guess Taylor just seemed OP sometimes.
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>>93767549
>Endbringers would beat the JL long term

Wildhack confirmed for only having watched the carrtoon.
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>>93767552

It isn't really swept under the rug, it's just dealt with later (and some uncomfortable details regarding why the bullying was allowed to continue by the school's faculty come to light).
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>>93767552
The actual trigger event didn't happen on screen. The story isn't centered on bullying, even though Taylor's power is a result of it. The main theme of Worm is choice and consequence.

The consequences of bullying, instead of bullying itself. It's not swept under the rug. We just see how much Taylor wanted to avoid school because she's messed up in the head, and angry because the bullies never get consequences from the authorities.
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>>93767492
>The writing was fanfic tier
>He still read it
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>>93767551
I thought killing Alexandria was the worst part of Worm desu. Even worse than the timeskip.
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>>93767565

She was only ever "crucial" in the sense that her presence helped save lives. I don't ever remember she herself dealing critical damage to an Endbringer.
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>>93767602
I still read fanfics too.
They scratch an itch.
Worm fanfiction can be terrible in general, but a handful have redeeming qualities to make them worth reading.
>>
>>93767618

I feel like she could have just punched herself in the diaphragm or something to cough up the bugs.
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>>93767602
I wouldn't call it fanfic tier, but it definitely lacked the polish the polish that a fully edited work would have. Understandable, considering the author wrote like 2.5 chapters a week.
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>>93767602
Still better than 90% of actual caps comics.

It was a waste of time through. But I do love wasting time...
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>>93767625
She doesn't.
Taylor's most effective skill is critical analysis of players and the battlefield. That's how she gets her victories.
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>>93767598
>The story isn't centered on bullying
OK I have to call bullshit here. Wildbow got his inspiration for Taylor by hearing stories from bullied kids, the story ends with the main villain getting bullied to death.
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>>93767625
Not counting Scion, the most damage she "directly" inflicted in an S class fight was cutting Echidna in half with the help of clockblocker.
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>>93767660

Also her shard's insane Multitasking power, which is the real MVP and why she got as far as she did.
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>>93766249
That's what russia in the setting literally did, it didn't work and they sacrificed Moscow for nothing.
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>>93767654
Once you read actual fanfics, specifically Worm fanfics, it's pretty clear how much Worm stands above them. Worm is far from perfect, but fanfiction is much, much worse.
>>
>>93758467
Son hasn't been canon since N52.
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>>93767574
>become a non issue
>It isn't really swept under the rug
Wow. When a fanboy wants to argue their case they'll change their tune to fit their argument.
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>>93767702

I'm not the anon that said it was a non-issue.
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>>93767702
I mean she kinda just moves past it. Wouldn't you?
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>>93767549
>Donut Steel monsters beating the JLA

So he doesn't know about pic related?

Fuck talking about superheros vs Worm. Just go down the list of threats the JLA have beaten and have them fight the Endbringers.

How many picoseconds do the Endbringers last against pic related?
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>>93767702
I'm not the anon that said it wasn't swept under the rug.
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>>93767724

She does get past it EVENTUALLY, but it definitely isn't swept under the rug. Hell, it's the primary reason why she gets completely disillusioned with the idea of joining the Wards and heroes in general once she makes that uncomfortable discovery following the Leviathan fight.
>>
>>93767676
Bullying is too specific. It sums up Taylor's backstory, but the setting is bigger than her. I personally think it's about Actions and Consequences. Which can include bullying, but also all the other trigger events that other capes got, resulting from domestic abuse, domestic violence, mental health issues, parental neglect, etc. Not just bullying.
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>>93767709
You can't really address the consequences of a action without addressing the actor. Especially when that action is betrayal.
>>
>>93767746
>the setting is bigger than her
She's the MC Who Saves The World. You don't get much bigger than that.
>>
>>93767726
The thing about the endbringers that people outside of the worm fandom don't get is how insanely durable they are. They're fire power is impressive in universe, but nothing that hasn't been done before. Now I don't know what this guy can do, and the ebs probably cant do shit against it. Can it actually kill them is the question.
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>>93767702
Taylor herself wants to sweep it under the rug. That's why she joins the Undersiders and doesn't end up turning them in. Because doing that would mean going back to having no friends, and no fancy loft to escape from school life or annoying Dad who keeps asking why she's skipping class.
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>>93767676
Who gets bullied to death? What?
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>>93767751

The actor is addressed later on.
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>>93767780
Author said he rolled dice and she could have been killed off in arc 8 and replaced by Aegis.
The whole concept of Worm came from the author's short stories he wrote years before starting with Taylor. And the MC of his original Gold Morning story was Faultline.
People are so fixated on Taylor.
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>>93767805
Scion.
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>>93767464

>faggot """fans"" arguing with an author about his own setting

embarassing desu senpai
>>
Feels like some of the people trying to debate Worm itt haven't even finished reading it.
>>
>>93767805

Don't read if you haven't finished Worm or unless you're planning on never reading it anyway.

Scion is effectively distracted and traumatized as Taylor uses her unlocked Administrator Shard to combine the powers of hundreds of heroes and make facsimiles and illusions that look like his dead partner writhing in agony, giving the Tinkers and Thinkers she's collected enough time to create and fire a weapon into Scion that erodes and obliterates his multi-dimensional body from the inside out.
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>>93767836
Death of the Author is a thing, brah. :^)
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>>93767805
Scions human avatar came together with him gaining human psychology so they mocked him with his dead partner, using pieces of her corpse to get him to give up fighting

>>93767836
Being a Worm fan is the fucking worst, the rest of the fanbase are either retarded normie Redditors or autistic Spacebattle users.
>>
>>93767783
You're acting like unbreakable material or acts of stupid durability are rare in comicbooks. Gah Lak Tus took a big bang to the face and it only destroyed a third of his ships, Meanwhile Behemoth gets killed by a cannon that could only destroy India.
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>>93767877
Thanks for the confirmation you didn't read Worm :^)
>>
>>93767816
>believing lies the writer tells to make people think he doesn't have a hard on for his pet
Sad!
>>
>>93767783
>Can it actually kill them

It killed two separate generations of gods by mindbreaking them into killing each other. It doesn't have to kill them. It'll just make them fight each other forever and ever.
>>
>>93767847
Ok I see what you mean. Maybe I had forgotten about the bullying angle, I thought they were just trying to fuck him up. Same thing I guess?
>>
>>93767871
Wildbow is a Redditor, does that make him a normie?
He got tired of SB autism after their bad Twig read-throughs and bad minmaxing on his PRT Quest forum game and quit years ago.
>>
>>93767816
That woulda been cool.
>>
>>93767911
Taylor is an author avatar as far as her backstory goes. She was bullied and ignored by authorities who didn't care, and so was Wildbow as a kid.

The original short stories that led up to Worm were "Guts and Glory", the ggirl and panacea short, and "The events leading up to that Thursday", a Faultline short. None of them had Taylor, but they were all pieces of the setting and worldbuilding.
>>
>>93767951
>PRT Quest
That was bad GMing more than anything.
>>
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>>93767852

Only when they're no longer around to correct reader's retarded misinterpretations, which Wildbow still is.
>>
>>93768000
I would have preferred Aegis as a MC.
Taylor's self-righteous attitude pissed me off so much. I had to shake my head at this girl who believes in doing good, when she's sticking poisonous spiders down civilian necks when all they did wrong was to be present in the bank she's robbing.

Real hero Aegis > fake wannabe hero Taylor
>>
>>93768061

I think I would have liked reading a version of Worm where Dauntless was the protagonist. He deserved better...
>>
>>93768039
You can call Death of the Author without the author being literally dead.

I can say that Harry Potter and the Cursed Child is a non canon shitfest, and ignore JK's statement on it, even though she's alive.
>>
>>93767783
Endbringers have a canonical weakness to anything that bypasses their insane durability. Flechette slices right through them, Chevalier nearly forced his blade into Behemoth's core, and the Golden Fuck You Beams flensed Behemoth damn quickly. Most comics have characters with abilities that could no-sell them easily.
>>
>>93768096
Which in turn makes your opinions nothing but fanfiction.
>>
>>93768079
Dauntless isn't dead, he's just trapped in a Bakuda time bubble. Valkyrie could spam powers and get him out, or worst case, kill him and the rebuild his body like it's implied she did with Clock.

Could come back in Worm 2.
>>
>>93768123

That would be nice. I just don't want him spending an eternity in that damned thing as it shrinks and his extremities age and rot away out of sync with the rest of his body.
>>
>>93768117
Authors who make statements about their work that isn't actually written in their work (like Dumbles the gay, or Cedric the Death Eater) are making fanfiction of their own stories.
>>
>>93768138
Could be worse. Could be an Edge Boy victim.
>>
>>93768138
I think it's just a stasis bubble.
If they hey him out, he's still thinking they're fighting Leviathan, and then they have to get him up to speed about Scion, Cauldron, GM, and Khepri.
Also Scion destroyed most of Brockton Bay with his beam spam rampage, so there's going to be an issue with physically accessing the bubble's location. It's underwater with a building dropped on top.
>>
>>93768170

Oof, yeah.

Taylor shooting Aster still gets to me.
>>
What's your favorite worm fanfic?
https://forums.spacebattles.com/threads/propagation-worm.277319/
I really love the idea behind the fic, it's too bad it was abandoned.

https://forums.spacebattles.com/threads/wormverse-ideas-recs-and-fic-discussion-thread-21.287392/page-36#post-13313362
It's basically a worm creepypasta.
>>
>>93768102
Couldn't green lantern just teleport their core out of their bodies?
>>
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>>93768215
>Worm fanfic
Don't fall for the "Worm fanfiction is actually good" meme, the overall quality may be slightly better but that doesn't mean much, it still is utter uninspired "Taylor but with x power haha let's still make her do the exact things as in canon" trash
>>
>>93768259
*95% of it still is

Just like with any fanfiction there are bound to be a couple really good ones but also just like with any fanfiction most of it is so shit it's almost not worth it to even go looking for the diamonds in the rough.
>>
>>93768259
Something doesn't have to be good for you to have a favorite.
>>
>>93768215
The ones I like and think are worth reading and recommending are:

Cenotaph
Tabloid
Weaver 9
Loaf
Dire Worm

All are complete or stop at a good point, decent writing that isn't riddled with typos, and none of them have altpower Taylor. Altpower Taylor is the cancer of Worm fanfiction.
>>
>>93768242

Can they?
>>
>>93768314
Martian Manhunter could just phase through and take it out.
>>
>>93768259
Don't read Taylor with X Power stories.
Once you see it in the premise/story summary, drop it and move on. You'll save yourself from wasting your time. This goes for pointless crossovers and self insert fics too.
>>
>>93763662
>>93760711

Endbringers are city destroying Kaiju that kill dozens to hundreds of heroes whenever they appear.
>>
>>93768215

Worm Protocol, and spillover. Atonement is another favorite
>>
>>93768335

Isn't it all attached though? It's not like the core is just jostling around inside them.
>>
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Slaughterhouse 9 with a lineup of your choice are dropped into a random small american town in the Marvel Universe, how long can they operate before all of them are killed/imprisoned?
>>
>>93768356
Cores are under multiple layers of space flesh, all increasing in toughness and density until it gets to the core which is on a dimensional bullshit scale.
>>
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>>93768259
Worm fanfiction is actually good.

Spacebattles has a history of producing an abnormal number of great fanfics of many settings and the average fanfic productions on spacebattles are a dozen times superior to the slosh that get cranked out of FF.net

Worm has good fanfics.
>>
>>93768377
Thing to note, Jacks bullshit shard power that literally gave him plot armor only works if he's fighting against parahumans from his own universe meaning he's going to be a whole lot weaker against all the people who are superhuman in other ways.
He still is god tier at manipulating his own team though.
>>
>>93768259
That's 99% of fanfiction, though. "Let's make the main character Godlike then have them easily stomp the exact same obstacles they encountered in the series and had to struggle with, while keeping the plot otherwise the same."

The Tinker ones are particularly abhorrent, though, because they have to insert endless useless chapters of machine fetishism first.
>>
>>93768407
Jesus Christ, fuck off you 12 year old.
>>
>>93768377
Not that long. One of their biggest strengths is Jack's Shard guiding him on where to go to avoid resistance too serious for him to handle, and on when to bail to avoid the cavalry. As >>93768431 noted, that won't work in any other setting. He also won't have Cauldron secretly ordering the strongest heroes in the setting not to intervene.

That said, Siberian will probably wreck a number of high-tier heroes before they figure out her weakness, Shatterbird will absolutely wreck whatever city she's in as well as quite a few tech-reliant heroes like Iron Man, and Crawler could get scary if they don't take him seriously enough. I don't think the others present anything special once they figure out how to counter their tricks, though.
>>
>>93768377
Except for Siberian, Bonesaw,Crawler and maybe Mannequin they're fucked when they run into the X-Men or The Avengers.
>>
>>93768377

Well, let's see what the most devastating combination would probably be.

>Team Leader: King (Power grants immunity to Gray Boy, making him a bit easier to control. Also more useful in a hostage situation like that scenario. Jack without his shard-detecting bullshit is pretty low-tier.)
>Gray Boy
>Crawler
>Siberian
>Bonesaw
>(Modified) Damsel of Distress
>Hookwolf
>Cherish
>Hatchetface (If his power nullification still works), Mannequin or Burnscar otherwise.

The civilian casualties would be insane, and they might not go down without some struggle, but there just aren't enough truly heavy hitters or insanely durable members. A lot of them are specialized in dealing with "soft targets", which most Marvel heroes certainly aren't.

Gray Boy would probably be the last one left standing.
>>
>>93768573
Oh man I forgot about Gray Boy yeah, he'll be the main obstacle.
>>
>>93764722
Weren't they made by Cauldron as supersupersoldiers against Goldenboy/as tests to strengthen the heroes?
>>
>>93768734

No. The most plausible theory posited by characters in-universe is that some aspect of Eidolon's "power to have all powers" created the Endbringers when he began to feel as though there was no enemy on the planet capable of challenging him.
>>
>>93768454

The userbase of Spacebattles is more adult populated then other sites in general, that's an automatic point in their favour when it come to writing quality. Most Worm fanfics are written on SB/SV, which allow for far greater interaction with the collective fan/readerbase than ff.net. Furthermore, there's more discussion on these sites, including a megathread for advice. If somebody's got a horrible, horrible piece, or writes a character utterly OOC, they will be called out on it, rather than on ff.net, where people who don't like it will generally just quit reading the story.

I think in addition to what's already been said the prevalence of good fanfiction already out there helps dissuade the less skilled (as in horridly less skilled, not the ones that are OK, those still post and are often enjoyable) from flooding the forums.
>>
>>93768734
Eidolon got a Shard from Eden that never was supposed to be given out to the creatures the Entities parasitize, the Shard gives him the power of "getting just what he needs". In part this means he got his official power of always having 3 random powers that are appropriate to the current situation but also his desire for having stronger and stronger opponents created the Endbringers which serve as his ultimate nemeses

If the Shard was used in the exact way it was intended to be used (for example if Eden didn't crash and still had the Shard) then it would still create Endbringers but many more of them which are overall weaker and patrol the whole planet instead of disappearing only to reappear every couple of months
>>
>>93768407
Is this a joke?
The Spacebattles user base is made up of power wanking munchkins who autistically obsess about power levels and hypothetical Who Would Win debates. That's where the name SPACE BATTLES came from.
>>
>>93768847
>>93768771
Interesting, my bad. Thanks guys.

I really need to reread Worm.

Is this implied/shown anywhere particularly, or is it mostly conjecture on the forums?

And did we ever get any more info on that other earth guy? "Nithogg" or something?
>>
>>93769006

Tattletale uses her power to figure it out within acceptable percentages of certainty, and bringing it up seems to be what convinced The Simurgh and the other Endbringers to follow them and oppose Scion.

Not sure what character you're talking about. I assume not Nilbog, since he was dealt with way earlier.
>>
>>93769076
Thanks anon, forgot about that bit with Tattletale.

I wasn't talking about the fleshguy, but the guy on an alternate earth that they were thinking of recruiting against the Big Bad but decided it was too risky in case he was uncooperative/cooperative. The guy they were more scared of than Endbringers.
>>
>>93768385
Green Lantern can open up space portals. He should be able to get it out. If not that then Cyborg's boom tube certainly can. It opens up portals to the God Sphere guided by a Mother Box. It shouldn't be too hard for him fish the core out.
>>
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>>93769119

Sleeper? Not sure where you got "Nithogg" from.

No, literally nothing about him is known other than the fact that he was "more trouble than he was worth" in forcibly controlling to use against Scion, and that he can "subsume worlds".
>>
>>93769132

Wouldn't he actually need to cut the hyper-dense flesh around it? I don't think it's quite like popping out the core of an avocado.
>>
>>93769163
>Sleeper
That was it, no idea where I mixed up Nithogg from.
Thanks anon.

A pity though, was hoping Wildbow had revealed something more. I hate not knowing about things.
I wonder if he would have made much difference?
>>
>>93769230

Find out in Worm 2: Electric Boogaloo, coming sometime after the conclusion to Twig!
>>
>>93769179
Why would he? Just teleport out as much matter as you want.
>>
>>93769390

Why don't they just defeat all their enemies like that, assuming it's a giant monster or whatever?

Why has no one used these one-shot-kill Boom Tubes to teleport Superman's organs out of his chest?
>>
>>93769284
Boooo!
>>
>>93769424
See >>93766698

Betcha 9.5/10 authors would not bring up that he is able to do that.
>>
>>93769424
>Teleport Superman's organs out of his chest

Because generally the Justice League of America aren't edgelords that try to kill their enemies. You're thinking of The Authority who have killed things through creative uses of portals.

If its a giant monster their normal powers are usually able to beat it. If its something that they need to kill like Starro or Darkseid or Mageddon or whoever then it's not something that'll drop to teleportation shenanigans.

I mean seriously. If they're fighting the Royal Flush Gang you think their go to is going to be teleporting their hearts out of their chests?
>>
>>93769480
>9.5/10 authors

Name me one threat that modern Green Lantern or Cyborg should have telefragged but didn't.
>>
>>93769601
I fail to see any situation that cannot be solved by enough teleportation of hearts out of chests.
>>
>>93757291
He'd do it in an outrageous fashion!
>>
>>93767836
>"Only idiots debate with the author! Word of God can't be wrong by definition!"
Right, applying logic to contradictory statements sends True Fans into shrieking fits of mad laughter for a reason. Because what kind of person would be stupid enough to apply logic to God?
>>
>>93769601

Aren't there villains that use Boom Tubes?
>>
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>>93769980

>True Fans

Sort yourself out
>>
>>93758942
>He's only 30ft tall.
Is that right? I always imagined him being at least 100 footer.
>>
>>93766458
Superman has physically punched through time and through multiverses in order to save the day. Aquaman calling the League would put an end to Leviathan.
>>
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>>93763751
Alright so Aquaman can control fish right?
Can he control thousands or tens of thousands at once and make them swarm him? I'd be pretty had to do Godzilla level stuff if you're caught in a living cloud of aggressive fish.
>>
>>93768215
>It's basically a worm creepypasta.
Worm is basically a Worm creepypasta.
>>
>>93770530
Yeah baby, Aquatic Dude is out of control.
>>
>>93770369

Even Behemoth is only a bit over 45 feet tall, and the Simurgh is just 15 feet tall.
>>
>>93770530

Aquaman can command fish.

Leviathan is a macro-hydrokinetic; not so good at small scale stuff, but very good at manipulating massive amounts of water at once.
>>
>>93770283
Yes, it was pretty stupid to imply that criticizing an author's logic errors means that someone isn't a "real" fan. I'm glad we agree on that.
>>
>>93766468
Honestly the significance of a lot of those books and their passages is going to be lost on a lot of people unless they study them in-depth and read a number of other scholarly texts.

If someone asked me whether they should read the Torah or Worm, without intending to read around the subject of Judaism so they can understand and appreciate the text, I'd probably say Worm.
>>
>>93770889
Simurgh is fucking tiny by monster standards.
>>
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>>93757291
It's shit like worm that makes me remember how stupidly easy it would be for /co/ writefags to make a capeshit universe, but inexplicably all power is handed over to drawfags.

>>93766468
/lit/ plz go, and may your pseud wannabe-/fit/ bullshit taint this board no longer.
>>
>>93772699
>co makes a capeshit universe

I'd love to see someone try this. I'm tired of those stupid comics about the characters with gag sized boobs.

Anyone want to try this?
>>
>>93770947
You think Mera when fully enraged can over power its water powers?
>>
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>>93772699
>>93772777
Shit like this usually fails unless there is one person at the top that decides what does and does not go in, otherwise it will just end as a trainwreck clusterfuck.

Keep that in mind if you ever want to actually try something like that.
>>
>>93773143
I know. There was a 4chan tg project to make a cape setting a long time ago I was apart of. Eventually it became just me and two other guys trading ideas and no one else had anything to say. So we took our ball and went home as it were and now we're trying to get our own webcomic off the ground based on that project.

Too many cooks is a cliche for a reason.
>>
>>93772784

Uncertain. Leviathan was holding back in most of its scenes, as were the other Endbringers.
>>
>>93767185
>Superman could probably take out Leviathan, but only by bodily hurling him into space.

The trouble with that is the fact that Ziz is in space.

You think Earth-Bet has never thought of that trick?

"We can use "power x" to just throw him into space!"

"What if the Simurgh catches him and brings him back? Then we'd have to fight them both!"

"...we'd just die, bro."

"We're not doing that, then."
>>
>>93774353

Wait, are we assuming that all of the Endbringers are attacking at once?
>>
>>93767525
>There is more than one autistic shit saying that the fucking author is wrong

So this is where my schadenfreude turns into hatred which turns into pity. How can people be so blindingly idiotic?
>>
>>93767877
>Behemoth gets killed by a cannon that could only destroy India.

Uh....

Dude, Behemoth tanked that hit with only cosmetic damage. It basically made him mad that they trashed his outer-shell bling.

It flat-out STATES this right in the story.

How bad is your reading comprehension?
>>
>>93769163

Jesus Christ, talk about an exit to fucking drive right on by....
>>
>>93774379
>Wait, are we assuming that all of the Endbringers are attacking at once?

No, but if you throw an Endbringer off the planet, can you be CERTAIN that Ziz won't intervene to rescue her 'brother'?

Do you want to risk it?

Imagine what Levi + Ziz looks like. Just drink in the horrible of that scenario.

Do you risk it?
>>
>>93774796
Or maybe her plan is to get the other 20+ Endbringers activated, so whoever killed the first one is worse off than I'd they'd never fought any monsters in the first place.
>>
>>93766458

Spacewhale is still a whale. Arthur asks it politely, but firmly, to leave.
>>
>>93774796
>>93775068
Just throw them all out. Superman just throws each of them off the planet in a different direction.
>>
>>93775159

Firstly, Simurgh could just fly back and use her telekinesis to bring the others back too.

Secondly, Khonsu can teleport.
>>
>>93775337
Into the Source Wall they go.

Bye bye boring ass monsters.
>>
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>>93774379
Sure, sounds like an interesting scenario. Maybe throw both of these guys into the mix too, I'm not sure how well they'd stack up.
>>
A worm thread? On /co/? And it's still up?
Alexandria's death was a plothole
>>
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>>93775581
>>>93775337
>Into the Source Wall they go.


Yes, they tried exactly this scenario against Leviathan. Legeia opened her gigantic water-world portal and tried to suck Leviathan through.

The Endbringer GRABBED THE EDGES of the portal and hauled himself back out of it.

The Simurgh did the exact same thing to one of the portals made by Doormaker.

The Endbringers can touch and manipulate dimensional rifts with their bare hands, at a minimum. See what the Simurgh did to Madison for an example on a larger scale. You try this sort of 'portal them away' wankery, and you might inspire them to start using their dimensional powers on you.

This is not nearly as simple as you seem to think it is.

The Endbringers are basically super-human raid bosses. There's no cheats or short-cuts or cheap tricks that work. Earth-Bet has tried all of that, repeatedly.

When an Endbringer shows up, you slug it out until you trigger its 'I lose' conditions, and you hope to God you figure it out before it does something truly bad.

The only way to 'beat' the Endbringers is to figure out which alternate cosmic-powered universe their root powers are kept in, breaking through the cosmic-level dimensional wards on said dimensions, and coring out their power source at the root.

Which would make a hell of a good story, come to think of it. :)
>>
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>>93769673
>I fail to see any situation that cannot be solved by enough teleportation of hearts out of chests.
>>
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>>93776958
>Pulling yourself out of a portal is the same as leaving the Source Wall

Are you high?

Face it bro, your lame as fuck donut steels go down faster than a two dollar hooker if they enter the DC universe. The very fact you think opening and closing portals is somehow impressive to the Justice League shows that you have no idea of the power difference between your web novel and the DCU.

Pic related is a guy that punched his way out of a paradise dimension and survived a universe killing detonation in his face. He would bitchslap every single entity in the Wormverse while calling them out for being hollow, shallow OCs and the Source Wall held his ass.
>>
>>93776958
>There's no cheats or short-cuts or cheap tricks that work.
There actually are. Anything that bypasses bullshit durability and can't be deactivated by their fuck you reaction to their core being exposed. It's just that apparently only Flechette has a power that meets both criteria, and she's incompetent.
>>
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>>93777222
>Prime enter Wormverse

>"What the fuck even ARE you people? You aren't REAL superheros! Real superheros have comicbooks! What kind of superheros can't beat up stupid giant monsters anyway?"

It would be fucking glorious.
>>
>>93758942
>the water generation afterecho, which is more powerful on land than in water.


This power also makes it impossible to 'throw him into space'. If you try, he leaves a trail of water the whole way up. Once he realizes he's heading into the deep dark, he just swims backwards down his trail and exterminates with prejudice whoever just tried to toss him.

If you assume that doesn't work and he winds up in space, he just flails around to make water, then uses that as reaction mass to old-fashioned rocket-swim his way back to Earth.

It can't be easy with those guys.

Can't throw Behemoth into space, he's a dynakinetic and just cancels out the kinetic energy of his motion. If you're unlucky, he gives the energy to you, instead, only pointed down instead of up.

Can't throw Simurgh into space, she already lives there and will just fly back.

Can't throw Khonsu into space, he has time stops and teleports right back.

Can't throw Tohu/Bohu into space, the big one is immune to external movement and the little one can't be moved far from the big one.
>>
Is it from the water? Y/N

Y = He can literally tell it to fuck off and it'll obey
N = Aquaman is maybe third or fourth place in terms of raw physical strength in DC's universe, outdone only by Supes, Captain Marvel, and Black Adam
>>
>>93777226
>It's just that apparently only Flechette has a power that meets both criteria, and she's incompetent.


Flechette has a cosmic level weapon power used by the Entities early in their evolution. It was called 'Sting". (Fun little homage, there.)

Even her power did not do any significant damage to the Endbringers. She shot them many, many times.

Her power was only significant in that it allowed a cheat to have a ghost of a prayer of a chance.
>>
>>93777311
>Leaves a trail of water and swims back down

I don't think you realize how hard he's going to get thrown. He's going to need to generate enough force to stop accelerating at several thousand times the speed of light in whatever direction Superman throws him.

How would he even be able to find Earth once he finally hits the breaks?

>Behemoth

Flash steals his speed. No kinetic energy for him.

>Simurgh

Phantom Zone

>Khonsu

Source Wall

>Tohu/Bohu

White Dwarf star'd into a little pseudo-molecule.

>>93777412
>Fun little homage there

The fact you don't cringe at how god awful that is shows everyone how pathetic wormcucks are.
>>
>>93767426
His rate of growth in power doesn't seem to be limited by sunlight, though living in the sun expedites the process.
>>
>>93777360
>Third or Fourth in terms of raw strength

Wat.

>He can tell it to fuck off and it'll obey

Aquaman can do the exact same thing with his trident. His waifu and sidekick can also do the exact same thing.
>>
>>93777457
>>93767426
He was trapped in a pocket dimension with Wonder Woman for thousands of years. He can go without sunlight for a long, long time.
>>
>>93775111
That's like saying Aquaman can control human minds because "a land merman is still a merman".

Wait, they actually used that logic in the comics, didn't they? Wasn't it said that Aquaman can mind control anyone or anything because all life originates from water?
>>
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Aquaman has beaten Cthulhu, and apparently does so on a yearly routine. Leviathan is made by a chunk of space Cthulhu. I think we're kind of underestimating how extremely bullshit your average DC superhero is.
>>
>>93777584
Yes. Several times. He mind controlled several humans and a shape shifting telepath.

>>93777610
>yearly routine

He fought evenly with Starro if I remember correctly, but defeated Starro by tag teaming with Martian Manhunter.

It's worth noting that the Starro in this story was such a psychic threat he was eating The Dreaming itself. That's several clicks above Cthulhu.

He was also larger than Australia if that means anything.

I'm pretty sure he could mind whammy Leviathan

>>93777610
>I think we're kind of underestimating how extremely bullshit your average DC superhero is

Yes you are. Pic related is what happened to a reality manipulating ancient god that fought the JSA, and the JSA isn't the first line of defense against cosmic threats. The JLA is. Think about that for a minute.
>>
>>93777610
>Underestimating how extremely bullshit your average DC superhero is

Think about what the Justice League fights.
>>
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>>93777761
Forgot my pic.
>>
>>93767901

I can't blame him. He made the right choice.
>>
>>93767526
Isn't the Phantom Zone one of the weakest comic zones their is? Characters have punched out of it and can observe others from it.

EBs would easily pull some power out of their ass to teleport from it.
>>
>>93777852
Worm really is hot garbage.

I mean these Endbringer guys sound boring as fuck, like JRPG bosses thought up by someone that just got done watching Pacific Rim. When the DC guys fight final bosses they get really cool guys like Darkseid, guys with themes and personalities.

I mean forget "why do DC characters beat up Worm characters". Ask the better question: "Why are DC characters so much BETTER AND MORE INTERESTING than Worm characters?"
>>
>>93777882
Prime punched his way out of it. Zod had to construct a device and send his son as an anchor to get himself out of it. To my knowledge Prime is the only one to brute force his way out of the Phantom Zone (he also did the same thing to the Speed Force).

Prime Time is quite a few clicks above Endbringers though. He tanked a universe killing blast from Monarch.
>>
>>93777584
>Wasn't it said that Aquaman can mind control anyone or anything because all life originates from water?
Yep. It works better on humans due to a more "recent" evolution, and in more advanced species like Martians the best he can do is induce seizures after severely straining himself.
>>
>>93777933
Anon look at the Worm fans. Alot of them are in the 'My first superhero' category. A common theme being most of them don't read Marvel, DC or even fuckin Astro City yet think Worm is the end all of superhero stuff.

You know what? Fine.

Plutonian enters Wormverse. What happens?
>>
>>93778055
>severely straining himself

He gave that one speedster a seizure without even breaking his stride. The only thing that ever made him struggle in the Morrison run was Starro.
>>
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DrFate solo

>>93777882
There's a few dozen other ''Zones'' that would do the trick better then the Phantom Zone
>>
>>93778106
>Dr. Fate

You know, the entire time people have been talking about Endbringers and NO ONE brings up just using DC's OP as fuck magic system to deal with them.

Magic can do ANYTHING in the DCU.
>>
>>93778084
The Speedster was a human. Martians have a much more evolved and developed brain, so as a result there's not as much to control as with a human.
>>
>>93778218
In the Hyperclan arc? Naw man, all the members of the Hyperclan were White Martians disguised as humans.
>>
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>>93778167
>Magic can do ANYTHING in the DCU.

That's mostly because no on ever bothers trying to define the limits of it, but hey you're right. I betcha the rock of eternity keeps more then one ''endbringer'' sealed.

One phone call to Ibis the Invincible and its fucking over.
>>
Makes you wonder how all these superheroes who could solo an Endbringer would fare against Contessa.
>>
>>93778078
He kills everyone in the universe while you congratulate yourself for winning against a series that you haven't read.
>>
>>93778353
>Contessa

I she dosen't see it coming can she defeat it? With prep time i guess she could take on the weakest of them but not agents of higher forces like Spectre, Radiant, Phantom Stranger, Fate or even the Demon Etrigan is isn't fucking around
>>
>>93778353
She'd probably crush the League, unless she Blind Spots. There's a whole thing about Batman's plans to deal with all of them falling into the wrong hands, and she doesn't even need to get access to them, she just has them automatically.
>>
>>93778319
>Magic
>Limits

Magic in DC has no limits. It's radiation from the giant god-sphere that surrounds the bleed like a placenta around a fetus.

It has NO limits because it is beyond all physical limits. That's sort of why its magic. It's why Scarlet Witch became OP as fuck and crazy when she crossed over into the DC universe. In Marvel its just power. In DC magic is FUCKING MAGIC.
>>
>>93778502
She goes down like Prometheus did. You can plan against the League but not their wide circle of friends. Even the Tower of Babel/Fenrir traps weren't able to stop the league for long.
>>
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>>93757291
ITT: People provide legitimate reasons for why Aquaman would win and back up those reasons with various established feats. Also, for some reason there is one guy responding to every pro-Aquaman post with "NU UH, MY SUPER SEKRET OC DONUT STEEL KAIJU WOULD FUCKING WIN NO MATTER WHAT".

Seriously, can you "but muh endbringers and infinite matter and galaxy cores n sheet" just fuck off?

A discussion was had, a conclusion was made.

Aquaman would win.
>>
>>93778353
If she has time to prepare and there is no blind spot, from my understanding, POV can beat anything with enough time or at least a way to do it.
>>
>>93778353
>Makes you wonder how all these superheroes who could solo an Endbringer would fare against Contessa.


Now that's just not playing fair.

Hell, Alexandria would solo most of the JLA easy, and we won't even discuss what Eidolon would be like.
>>
>>93767185
Leviathan generates water and has perfect control over it. He could just propel himself to Earth. And no, he wouldn't be Kars'ed, mainly because he can produce enough to create a sphere around himself that wouldn't be frozen, and his hydrokinesis also works with ice.
>>
>>93767185
>If Simurgh got near Superman the world would already be fucked regardless of how the fight went.

Actually, that's one of the less scary scenarios. Ziz's mind control works by telekinesis, and I don't think that she could penetrate Supes' defenses.

He could do that to all his loved ones, but probably not Supes.
>>
>>93778641
>You can plan against the League but not their wide circle of friends


Well, actually, yes she can, effortlessly and nearly automatically.

Contessa's power is an utterly broken level of unfair.

Sadly, it doesn't work against the Endbringers, like almost every other 'cheat' or 'godmode'.
>>
>>93764722
It was never confirmed if the Endbringers were created by Eidolon or if he merely woke them up and gave them a mission, since they appear in Eden's vision and there wasn't an Eidolon there.
>>
>>93778106
>Magic doesn't exist in Worm and people don't have souls

Yep, Fate would stomp Endbringers.
>>
>>93777933

>I mean these Endbringer guys sound boring as fuck, like JRPG bosses thought up by someone that just got done watching Pacific Rim. When the DC guys fight final bosses they get really cool guys like Darkseid, guys with themes and personalities.

That's probably because the Endbringers are pretty much literally that, aren't characters, and most of the story is spent dealing with antagonists that are actually characters.
>>
>>93778457

If we're talking "they get thrown into an arena together and fight to the death", no, Contessa would get obliterated.

If we're assuming she's just plopped in the DC Universe with the directive to "defeat the Justice League" and nobody is aware of her at the start, that's a different story.
>>
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>>93778505
And that's why we see so little of magical characters nowadays. Truly a shame
>>
>>93777222
>>Pulling yourself out of a portal is the same as leaving the Source Wall
>Are you high?


How exactly are you getting the insanely dangerous, super-fast, indestructible death-monster whose body and powers defy all normal limitations of time and space because they literally come from outside the universe TO the Source Wall in the first place?

If you get close enough to an Endbringer to grab it, it's not going to go quietly, and it can do enough damage to you, your friends, and the surroundings to make you back the fuck up.

You can't stun it, you can't trick it, you can't 'find it's weakness' because its just a cosmic level thing whose only purpose is to stress your entire society to the breaking point, over and over and over again.

Oh, and if you somehow DO manage to disable one, two more show up to replace it.

Yay! Victory!
>>
>>93778915

Serious question:

Why do you guys read or like Worm? I fully admit to not having read it, and based on most of the comments from fans of the series, I probably will continue to not read it.

But I want to know why you guys like it. Because based on comments like yours, where these characters are apparently so powerful that they could "solo most of the JLA easy", I honestly can't see the appeal. It's also dark and brootal to the point that it would make the most avid 40k fan blush, right?

As an outside observer, it just really sounds like "Pssh... Nothin' personal... Kid" level fanfic. Spell it out for me, Worm-fags. What's so great about your webserial?
>>
>>93778915
What's her plan against Dr. Fate? Begging for mercy?
>>
>Aquaman lets slip in black manta's presence that leviathan's death would potentially cause him immeasurable amounts of pain
>sits back and lets BM's weaponized autism do all the work for him
Problem solved. If it means fucking with aquaman black manta will muster the strength or plan to fight off superman.
>>
>>93778654
BUT MUH OC!!!!!!!
>>
>>93779054
>>>93778106
>>Magic doesn't exist in Worm and people don't have souls
>Yep, Fate would stomp Endbringers.


Ah, finally, somebody has the proper response!

Magic doesn't seem to exist in Worm, even though some people think it might.

The way for the JLA to defeat the Endbringers is to magic them.

This changes the game, though, because now it becomes the Endbringers going after every magic user full-bore as soon as they become aware of their existence (instantly, as long as Ziz is alive) while the rest of the heroes do everything in their power to keep enough mages alive long enough to take out all the Endbringers.

See, that's an interesting story right there. :)
>>
>>93779114
Vertigo was the golden age of DC magic.

>>93779228
It's literally just edge, power wank, and waifus.

Worm is garbage. If it was actually good it would have been published. But it hasn't been, not even by Avatar or Boom Studios.

And it never will because its garbage.
>>
>>93779210
Theres a dozen chars in the good side of the DC universe that could teleport all of the Endbringer to the Source Wall without even needing to touch them.
>>
>>93779321

>See, that's an interesting story right there. :)

Pardon my autism, but I'm just going to assume you're being sarcastic.
>>
>>93779321
>Endbringers going after every magic user full bore

Do you have any idea how horribly curbstomped the Endbringers are if they actually bring the attention of the magic community down on them?

We're not even talking Lords of Order and Chaos. We're not even talking angels like Spectre and Lucifer. Just guys like Dr. Fate and Zatanna would embarrass the end bringers.
>>
>>93779210
Any Superman level character would just drag it kicking and screaming to the Source Wall like they did with Gog/Prime/Darksied. Any character with a mother box could just ask it to Boom Tube them. Any lantern could just teleport them. Same with any magician.
>>
>>93779228

Rule #1: Never allow a fanbase to define for you the quality (or lack thereof) of a given piece of media, because literally every single fanbase for anything you can think of is fucking garbage; some are more obviously garbage, others you need to peer beneath the surface layer to see the scum churning underneath.

I'm not one of the powerlevel faggots going on and on about how "my favorite universe could beat your favorite universe!", but I'll answer anyway.

I enjoy it because I tend to enjoy any independent (or non-Big Two) story with serviceable writing that deals with superheroes, because sometimes it's refreshing to not have to deal with crossovers and events and characters being written dramatically differently across books from multiple authors, and instead just have one author that keeps things (relatively, accounting for human error) consistent. I'm a fan of protagonists with powers that don't get enough love (insect control), the setting is pretty well thought out and has a good amount of meat to it, and it toys with expectations in fun ways sometimes.

High art it ain't, and the author's later works are arguably better, but I liked it for what it was (a pretty decent story by an independent author that could stand to have a more competent editor) and don't act like it's anything more than that.
>>
If Magic does work in the Worm universe then you'd just need the Wizard to allow Dr Fate to tap into his god-given-powers.

Without magic i'm sure Highfather would oblige to give a damn for once.
>>
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>Darkseid forces the Endbringers and whoever their boss is to Die for Darkseid.

This is what a real god looks like Wormcucks.
>>
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Here's a real challenge: Name a DC bad guy more lame than the Endbringers.

Can you name more than ten?
>>
>>93779228
>Serious question:

Serious answer! :)


>Why do you guys read or like Worm?

Because it's really, really good. Just that simple.

>I fully admit to not having read it, and based on most of the comments from fans of the series, I probably will continue to not read it.

Your loss!

If the Big Two had any brains, they'd throw money at Wildbow and BEG HIM to write shit for them.

Single-handed, he's created a world every bit as compelling and interesting as the Big Two have got.


>But I want to know why you guys like it. Because based on comments like yours, where these characters are apparently so powerful that they could "solo most of the JLA easy", I honestly can't see the appeal.

You have to realize, out of scores, hundreds, of named characters, people are only bringing up 'the big names' from Worm.

Mainly because the DC Faglets go straight to Superman, every flippin' time.

Worm is awesome because the Main Character has the power to control....bugs.

See, it's not the power, its what you do with it that counts. :)

Yes, Alexandria is like a combination of Lex Luthor, Brainiac, and Superman.

Yes, Eidolon is LITERALLY 'anything he needs', and is powerful enough to one-shot Alexandria clones.

Yes, Contessa is a sneak villain whose power is literally, no kidding, an 'I Win" button.

But then you have Tattletale, whose superpower is that she has superhuman intuition. And frankly, you'd almost rather face Alexandria than her.

It's well written.


>It's also dark and brootal to the point that it would make the most avid 40k fan blush, right?

Heh, Worm is not for the delicate, that's for sure. But it's certainly not gratuitous, as your poorly-informed opinion seems to indicate.

>As an outside observer, it just really sounds like "Pssh... Nothin' personal... Kid" level fanfic. Spell it out for me, Worm-fags. What's so great about your webserial?

It's very well written. Go read it. You'll see for yourself.

Not like it costs anything. :)
>>
>>93779518
>>93779324

I'm beginning to think these two are actually the same person.
>>
>>93757291
Fuck off with your off topic bullshit.
>>
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>>93779507
I'd like to nominate Mr. Bloom
>>
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>>93779518
>this whole fucking post
>>
>>93779518
How much do you wanna bet this is Wildbow having a mental breakdown that people don't like his edgy tripe?
>>
>>93779518
>>93779426

Thanks for the serious non-patronizing replies, anons. I wasn't trying to come off as a prick in my post, and I hope it didn't come off that way.

I'll admit, some of the powers definitely sound interesting (I've heard the creative use of powers is a big selling point of the series).

I guess, and I fully admit this might be a failing of mine, I prefer my escapism to be more light-hearted, or if not light-hearted, at least more black/white. I can deal with grim, and gritty, but I'm kind of a fag for "the good guys win".

Still, I might give it a try.
>>
>>93779546
I'm >>93779324

I don't know enough about Worm to have written >>93779518. But good on him for exposing the hypocrisy of Wormcucks stroking themselves over "muh clever use of powers" when some of the characters are boring doodles of writer fiat and fetish appeal. They're worse than JoJofags.

Fuck Worm and those that like it.

>>93779572
We got one. 9 more and we win a prize.
>>
>>93779633

I'd say, just give it a try if you've got the spare time. I was pretty hesitant myself going in, but after something of a slow start I found myself enjoying it quite a bit.
>>
>>93779629
I hope the 3k he gets from e-begging on patreon covers up the shame he must feel on the inside to know that he'll never be published, he'll never have a show or movie, that within the circle of superhero creatures he's less respected than Rob Liefeld and Bendis, that his work will never be mentioned by any writer of artists with acclaim, and that he will go into this Earth having left less of a pop culture footprint than Dan Slott.

I hope he hurts. I hope he hurts a whole lot. And I hope all the sycophantic pissant boot licker rejects from spacebattles that keep spamming this sub-fanfic writing asking if DO NOT STEAL Godzilla can beat Aquaman./Superman/Whoever the fuck hurt with him.
>>
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>>93779518
>Worm is awesome because the Main Character has the power to control....bugs.

See, it's not the power, its what you do with it that counts. :)

Yes, Alexandria is like a combination of Lex Luthor, Brainiac, and Superman.

Yes, Eidolon is LITERALLY 'anything he needs', and is powerful enough to one-shot Alexandria clones.

Yes, Contessa is a sneak villain whose power is literally, no kidding, an 'I Win" button.

But then you have Tattletale, whose superpower is that she has superhuman intuition. And frankly, you'd almost rather face Alexandria than her.

It's well written.
Holy fuck is this all for real? I mean holy fuck what even is this bullshit?
>>
>>93779741

Show me where on the doll Wormfags touched you, anon.
>>
>>93779801

If you didn't realize it's someone pretending to be retarded by the emoticons, I don't know what to tell you.
>>
>>93779633
>>>93779518 (You)
>>>93779426
>Thanks for the serious non-patronizing replies, anons.


You're completely welcome!

Honestly, I think the Big Name characters in Worm are kind of 'meh'. I mean, Alexandria is fucking terrifying, and she's one of the Good Guys.

But the little guys? Awesome!

Probably my favorite character, after Skitter, is a tossup between Imp and Tattletale.

Or maybe Weld. I really like Weld, that guy is just a Big Damn Hero.

Or maybe Blasto. He was a rat bastard villain and he went out ugly, but dammit, that guy had fucking PRINCIPALS.
>>
>>93779827
No faggot I'm asking if the stuff about the characters is real or not, I can tell he's a troll.
>>
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>>93779844
Holy god I needed this. Thank you Anon. Have a cute She-Hulk for your troubles.
>>
While this thread is up...
Who made the Endbringers? Was it Eidolon trying (or subconsciously trying) to prove himself? Or Scion forcing the capes to get stronger? Or Cauldron? Freaks of nature?
>>
>>93779801
>Holy fuck is this all for real? I mean holy fuck what even is this bullshit?

Well, you asked!

Alexandria is an invulnerable super-strong flying brick. She can hit supersonic speeds from pretty much a standing start, tank almost any hit without taking a scratch, and punch things so hard only the similarly invincible can survive her hits.

She is also hypersmart, thinking faster and easier than almost anyone alive, perfect memory, knows several martial arts, can code and use computers. She can body read her foes so well she has near-telepathic 'reading' skills.

She is also the head of TWO world-spanning organizations, one public and heroic, the other secret and villainous. At the same time!

Eidolon is able to summon up to three complete powersets. He tends to like and keep versatile ones, like danger sense that includes automatic teleportation out of harms way.

The powers he summons are extremely strong, to boot, to the point that he doesn't use many/most of his heavy hitters because the collateral damage is so enormous.

Contessa has a very simple mental power. She can see the path to victory. In any situation, she knows the exact way to win, no matter how strange, unlikely, or improbable it may seem, and more importantly, she is then able to follow that path until she wins.

Yeah, Contessa is...just broken.

And yet, these characters are so well written that they fit right in, have problems and conflicts, and are generally believable, interesting, and entertaining.
>>
>>93780146
>Contessa

But that's like Midnighter's whole thing with his battle computer. It works when it works but if there's absolutely no way to win they're fucked.

Her power sees a path to victory, not create one.

In Midnighter's case it actually gives him a seizure. I'm not sure what would happen in Contessa's case.
>>
So level with me. Is this at all written in a webcomic format? Or is it just some guys Young Adult novel he couldn't get published?
>>
>>93780107
Most likely Eidolon it's responsable. At one point Scion reconoced the endbrigers as a part of Edén, so he probably got a part of a shard that wasn't supposed to be shared with humans.
>>
>>93780341
>Webcomic
It's a web serial.
>>
>>93780341
It's the later. Poor bastard didn't even have the people skills necessary to rope someone into making a comic for him.
>>
>>93780341
Serial, and... yeah that's pretty much what it was. Not terrible, pretty neat at times but definitely full of the YA edge vibe. Plus most of the characters are teens...
>>
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>Middle School level edge subbing in for decent writing
>Kaiju as final bosses lamer than Final Fantasy bosses
>Super powers come from macguffins called shards
>Characters with boring fanfic powers

Can anyone name a less interesting less creative superhero setting than Worm?
>>
>>93780458
No one in the world has enough people skills to charm an artist into turning the entirety of a 1.7 mil word doorstopper into a comic book.
>>
>>93778915
Alexandria vs basically any of the League's heavy hitters would be embarrassingly in DC's favor. Assuming she's completely invincible to any level of mundane force, she still loses to the magic heroes, anyone who can violate the laws of physics in a way that bypasses her durability (like Siberian), and anyone who can choke her out. Meanwhile, she's not able to fight on that tier.

Eidolon is probably just as doomed, although he's capable of soloing any given member of the League. He's a discount Amazo - three Worm powers is not as impressive as the entire JLA, even if they are the best three for any given situation.
>>
>>93780496
>>93780422
>>93780405
>Muh web serial

You guys can say "YA novel he couldn't get published". It's okay to tell the truth.
>>
>>93780546
Sorry, but that title officially belongs to "A Practical Guide to Evil".
>>
>>93780576
>>93780576

Rank the three in order from best to worst:

Worm
A Practical Guide to Evil
Strong Female Protagonist

Who reigns as worst superhero setting ever written?
>>
So, uh.

As a Worm fan, can we agree this OP was a fucking terrible idea? Let's never get autists from each side fighting each other. Let's just make it a pure Worm thread, or make it about cooperation instead of a dick measuring contest.

Please, let's not do this again or Worm talk will be banned by the mods. We are barely hanging in here as it is, waiting for the cartoon (I'm not shitting you, there is going to be one if we're lucky).
>>
>>93780285
>>>93780146 (You)
>>Contessa
>But that's like Midnighter's whole thing with his battle computer. It works when it works but if there's absolutely no way to win they're fucked.

True, but Contessa's power has only failed once, against Literal God, and even then only because she put on too many restrictions for her victory conditions.

There's ALWAYS a way. The only way to handle her is to blind her power.

This is made far worse by the fact that she's a sneak. Her power gives her perfect situational awareness. She doesn't wear a costume or go around in public. She attacks from surprise, and she hits you in exactly the worst possible way.

Superman would have no chance at all against her. I'd give her better than even odds against Darkseid.

>Her power sees a path to victory, not create one.

Yes, but it gets very, very creative. We've seen her reach victory simply by knowing exactly what to say to talk her way out of situations. Given the superheroic genre, a power that leads her to victory by simply talking is stupidly powerful. Think 'Preacher' but far more subtle.

>In Midnighter's case it actually gives him a seizure. I'm not sure what would happen in Contessa's case.

Nothing bad happens that we know of. She's a real tough one. The fact that she has no reason to ever fight fair or give anyone a stand-up shot at her just makes it even worse.
>>
>>93780637
>waiting for the cartoon (I'm not shitting you, there is going to be one if we're lucky).


Whaaaat?!

No way.
>>
>>93780698
Wildbow really doesn't want this kind of shit to spread, so there's not any hype, just in case negotations fail. Check out the official IRC channel and ask around for more info.
>>
>>93780637
It's too late, the cancer is already here.
Next time there's a Worm thread, y'all need to use a better OP header and topic that is both Worm and /co related.
>>
>>93780727
That's what I'm saying dumbass, but thanks for summarizing my post
>>
>>93780658
We actually see what happens. When she tried to save her village and kill Eden at the same time, her power told her it was impossible and went all foggy.

Her other weakness is anti-precognition. The Entities created blind spots related to them, but other defenses could probably work as well. Including our old friend, DC universe magic.
>>
>>93780698
There's nothing official or in production, but Wildbow has said that when it comes to adaptations, he prefers a cartoon TV show over any other formats.
>>
>>93778654

No.

Most of the thread is people going back and fourth about setting qualities, posting monsters out of context that aquaman does not beat solo. saying that aquaman would get the league to deal with it instead of following the spirit of the op or talking about worm/worm fanfictions.


Levi and aquaman are simular in strength with Levi being stronger.

aquaman has a trident that can pierce into leviathan but doing so would immediately make Levi stop jobbing. leviathan has hilllarious control over their battlefield with it's hydrokinisis and would be immune to fish control because it is a construct.

>MUH OC!

Is not an argument.
>>
>>93779228
That guy was way off the mark. Alexandria gets absolutely shredded by any member of the JLA
Even Eidolon, the most powerful cape in the planet, could probably get rekt by someone like Martian manhunter or whatever
In general, powers in worm are way weaker than they are in Marvel or DC, which is what makes it good IMO
What makes it even better is that the final boss of the book IS literally stronger than the JLA put together
>>
>>93780825
There are projects in preproduction, they are just not talked about in public channels.
>>
>>93780861

Yeah, Alexandria is just another flying brick in the DC universe. She's probably not even the most intelligent one, which was her one other major defining characteristic. And unlike other major flying bricks, she can also be suffocated.
>>
>>93780825
>There's nothing official or in production, but Wildbow has said that when it comes to adaptations, he prefers a cartoon TV show over any other formats.


Well, really, there's no other way to do it justice. A cartoon can draw anything, a frame of art is a frame of art. Special effects for Worm would be...huge.

Hell, just Taylor's powers alone. The huge clouds of bugs, the decoys, the miles and miles of silk....
>>
>>93780862
Pre-production and optioning is nowhere close to leaving development limbo.
These things can go either way at that stage.
>>
>>93780978
Yeah, I know, that's why no official announcement has been made. I'm hopeful because I know Wildbow was approached instead of the other way around, and one of the projects is very low risk.
>>
>>93780954
It's sad that cartoons make people in western audiences to think "this is a show for kids". A live action adaptation would be taken more seriously, like the Jessica Jones TV series, but the level of special effects needed would make budget visuals as cheesy as Doctor Who or the Inhumans trailer.
>>
>>93780834
>aquaman has a trident that can pierce into leviathan but doing so would immediately make Levi stop jobbing. leviathan has hilllarious control over their battlefield with it's hydrokinisis and would be immune to fish control because it is a construct.


Yeah, see, I am not sure Aquaman's trident would really do all that much. As in, I'm pretty sure Levi would keep taking it easy.

Armsmaster's nano-thorn halberd was carving huge chunks out of him, and Flechette's bolts were punching so deep into him they were coming out the back of his head, and Leviathan never changed his behavior.

I don't think Aquaman can do much more than that, and frankly, if Aquaman gets close enough to Leviathan to stab him repeatedly, that means that Leviathan can hit him back, and that's not going to go well for Aquaman.

I mean, he's tough, but come on. It's a fucking Endbringer, it fights dozens to hundreds of heroes at the same time, and frequently wins against all of them.
>>
>>93779426
>(a pretty decent story by an independent author that could stand to have a more competent editor)

Something I've seen a lot of people forget since Worm finished is that it's a serial. Each chapter was posted on a schedule, without time for significant editing as it went up. Wildbow didn't plan ahead, he was working entirely alone, and he wrote two or three chapters a week without pause for three years, without a cushion or backlog except for right at the beginning. Past the first few arcs every chapter went up the day it was written. No real editing since then, either, beyond typo corrections.

Worm's not perfect (though it remains one of my all-time favorite stories), but considering the nature of how it was written I'd say it's at least pretty damn impressive.
>>
I'm a huge worm fan, but others are underestimating the sheer amount of bullshit powers DC has.
Aquaman probably stomps
>>
>>93781247

I mean, yeah. It was pretty much a long-form NaNoWriMo. Honestly, it's a pretty good habit to get into if you're wanting to improve your writing and I can at least commend him for sticking to it.
>>
>>93781365

What's even more impressive is that he hasn't missed a single week since. He went straight from Worm into writing snips of other stories, then straight into Pact, then straight into Twig, and as soon as Twig ends (and it will be soon), he'll be going straight into Worm 2.

He's maintained his schedule straight since 2011, never missed a deadline, never taken time off, and he's just been getting steadily better the entire time. He's up to over 4 million words now spread over three stories, and all of them have been good.

I haven't seen many other authors that have done as well.
>>
>>93781479
Plus it's not like he uploads small chapters at a time. I have no idea how he does it
>>
>>93781479
He did miss a couple deadlines, but it was life risk stuff IIRC.

It's never been out of laziness at the very least.
>>
>>93781510
He's always on Reddit/IRC answering questions too. I'm pretty sure he doesn't sleep.
>>
>>93781524

He's pushed back scheduled Thursday bonus chapters, but those are always on an 'as possible' basis. But the main Tuesday/Saturday updates are always up.
>>
>>93768061
Taylor is more of an Anti-Villain than a Hero, even from the start.
>>
>>93781589
I am 90% certain he did miss the main updates a couple of times.
>>
>>93781554
I really wish worm had more of a prescence on 4chan. Theres a lot of fans, but the mods in /co/ and /lit/ always shut worm threads down, saying it belongs in the other place
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>>93781590

Taylor's a villain. Small 'v'. There are capital-letter Heroes or Villains in Worm. That's kind of the point.
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>>93768061
I really liked Taylor but I thought she was gonna go full villain at some point.
Yeah, the most annoying moments are when she acts like she's a saint and the PRT are evil. She never gives anyone the benefit of the doubt, but always gets mad when people doubt her intentions. A lot of characters call her out on it but it never sticks.
I think Wildbow meant for us to find her hypocritical
>>
>>93781606

The closest I can think of is that one chapter in arc... six? Five? When the Undersiders fought Night/Fog. He uploaded a version that he wasn't happy with, it got some bad reception, so he hastily wrote a new version, which was up the same day. There's also been a few times when chapters were delayed due to power or internet outages, as well as some that were 5-6 hours later than normal due to various reasons. But I can't recall a time where a chapter just didn't appear and that update got skipped over.
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>>93781622
Then cross your fingers for some type of live action or animated adaptation.
>>
>>93781660
>I think Wildbow meant for us to find her hypocritical
The funny thing is that so many readers don't realize this and think Taylor's PoV is the right one and everyone else who disagrees with her in-story are being unreasonable.
>>
>>93781635
I think you mean't "aren't"
There's plenty of capital V Villians
Heroes... eh... Dragon, Weld, most of the wards sans SS seem plenty heroic desu.
But yeah there's not a lot of heroic heroes
>>
>>93781690
Yeah, I'm talking about thoe delays, of course.
>>
>>93781709
The problem is, its like the story is written for us to find her reasonable.
My biggest gripe is that the undersidenrs dont ever commit any real crimes. The bank robbery is the worst thing they ever do. Once they take over the city, how are they funding themselves without coil? The story never covers them selling drugs, pushing people into prostitution or running protection rackets, it only covers them spending money on people. It just seems like they have an ezmode source of money, that makes it easy for them to act "moral"
>>
>>93781622
If you want to discuss Worm, there's a few IRC channels, the main r/Parahumans subreddit, Spacebattles, and the sister site Sufficient Velocity. They may be shite, but the forum format means that people try to avoid repeating the same arguments/discussions over and over since it's all kept in the archives.
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>>93781690
I've heard about this, but never read the orginal. What was wrong with it that people didn't like?
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>>93781782
Eh the problem with reddit and IRC channels is that people jump down your throat the moment you disagree with them. You really can't criticize the work without getting downvoted to hell. Everytime a worm thread appears on 4chan, I find it more interesting than anythign that popped up on the other sites
>>
>>93781714

I did mean that, yeah.

But I still don't agree that there are any capital-'V' Villains in Worm. There are people who played at it, like Jack, but even he was just a guy with a power. There wasn't any higher sort of cultural or metaphysical significance to him. No more than there would be to a very successful real-life serial killer.

He just killed people, and was a bit of a pretentious asshole about it.
>>
>>93781756
>Once they take over the city, how are they funding themselves without coil?

Lisa stole Coil's money. They owned a lot of property, and Sierra held it for them. They owned the land around the portal. Probably other stuff too, Lisa being Lisa.
>>
>>93781813
>You really can't criticize the work without getting downvoted to hell.

Sure you can. It happens all the time. You just can't act like you would on 4chan, screaming and shitposting without actually supporting your argument.

Plus there's the fact that anything you can say about Worm has already been said, at this point. Wildbow has mentioned that the number of e-mails he's got about 'one specific part' of the story (the timeskip) is over 6,000 by now, just as an example.
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>>93781851
The problem is, it was explicatly adressed that supervillains can't go legit with their powers because of WATCHDOG. See accords interludes on why he has to commit crime to fund his charitable efforts. But suddenly the undersiders can? It's a plot hole
>>
>>93781913
I mean, if you like reddit, thats good for you. But every experience I've had with it compared to 4chan has been negative, and I'm not even the shitposter kind of guy
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>>93781756
>The problem is, its like the story is written for us to find her reasonable.
It IS.
That's the thing. WB wrote it like that, because if he didn't, Taylor would be 0% sympathetic and no one wants to read a book where they hate the main character. So he made the main character likeable by writing from her point of view, and making her look good while the others look bad. But now you get readers thinking that what happened from her point of view is the pure, objective truth.

Pretty sure that during the warlord arc, Grue, Regent, and Imp are peddling drugs, violently pushing off intruders, and other fun gangsta stuff. But Taylor is so focused on own territory, feeding her people, and saving Dinah that she doesn't pay attention to anything else.

Brian is implied to be doing Bad Villain Things in 12.1 when he criticizes Taylor for wasting Coil's money on helping people without bringing anything back to the boss. Of course, in that scene from Taylor's PoV, Brian seems unfair and naggy, but if you step back and think about it, he's right about how she's spending Coil's cash for no real returns.

>“What do you want me to do? That doesn’t involve taking protection money or peddling drugs?”
>“Those would be your biggest revenue streams.”
>>
>>93781820
I don't see how Jack wasnt a capital V villain. He literally killed people for the art of it, that seems pretty evil.
Kaiser, Lung, Bakuda, Merchants, Coil were all really villanous too.
Or do you mean Villainous in a differnt kind of way?
>>
>>93781928
>The problem is, it was explicatly adressed that supervillains can't go legit with their powers because of WATCHDOG.

That just established that it wasn't easy. But it absolutely could be done. Are you forgetting Coil, and the fact that he got to be a PRT director? Or Kaiser, who owned and operated a large corporation? Or the fact that Number Man was basically running the world economy? Or that Saint openly operated as a mercenary, and the PRT was at one point considering him as an alternative to Dragon for running the Birdcage? Or that the Elite were a thing?

Villains operating businesses that were """legit""" was absolutely a thing in Worm, and established from a very early point.
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>>93781975
Yeah yeah I know, I just wish Taylor had been confronted by it at some point. Besides Dinah, she never really confronts the ramifications of her actions.
I really didn't like the Weaver plot twist though. I wish she would have stayed with the undersiders and gone full villain.
Breaking Bad with superpowers, if you wil
>>
>>93781813
You actually can criticize Worm, but you have to phrase your critique well enough that it sounds like actual critique and not "I DON'T LIKE THIS, THEREFORE IT'S BAD" and "WILDBOW IS TOO FEMINIST, I HATE THIS" complaining.
You can get away with ragging on Worm if you surround yourself with enough people who agree. :)

https://www.reddit.com/r/Parahumans/comments/6gf5bg/what_are_the_weakest_parts_of_worm_from_a/
>>
>>93782000

I mean in a way that's different from real-life criminals in matters other than having a power. Ted Bundy wasn't called a villain, after all. He was a serial killer. Suicide bombers aren't villains, they're terrorists. Al Capone wasn't a villain, he was a mob boss.

In Worm, 'hero' and 'villain' are mostly PR labels, and you can move from one to the other depending on your actions and what sort of plea deal you make when you're caught. Some people trend more to one side than the other, but that's pretty much it.

People don't tend to come back endlessly, either. Once the Brockton Bay Brigade caught Marquis, he was gone. Birdcaged. And there he stayed until the end of the world. Once Leviathan tore him in half, Kaiser didn't get revived. He was just dead.
>>
>>93782008
Point by point
Kaiser managed to run a large corporation because he didn't use his powers to run it. WATCHDOG detects thinkers.
Coil's interlude specifically states his power is special, because it lets him circumvent WATCHDOG.
The number man is well known to the cape community. What he does isn't legal. What they don't know is how he controls the world economy from the shadows, but he has contessa keeping him hidden there, so noone could ever find him.
Saint was an illegal mercenary. The PRT were willing to work with an illegal mercenary (Defiant points this out) because of the extreme circumstances. Doesn't mean Saint was on the up and up
The Elite were at constant war with the PRT and the protectorate, because they were trying to muscle in on the civilian economy, and WATCHDOG and the PRT kept fighting them back.
Even Accord, one of the most powerful thinkers in the setting, got caught by Watchdog. Doesn't make sense that Lisa could avoid them.
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>>93782078
I never said anything along those lines. I actually love the amount of female characters Worm includes. By the end of the novel, the three most powerful people in the world are all women.
Discussion jus't doesn't flow as well as it does on here, and I think downvotes are stupid. But we can agree to disagree.
>>
>>93782158
I think villain is just bad guy + power. Then Villain is just really bad guy + powers. Villains don't exist in our world cause powers don't. But I see what you mean.

Yeah, I like that noone in worm gets resurrected. That's the benefit of an original work
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>>93782164
>The Elite were at constant war with the PRT and the protectorate, because they were trying to muscle in on the civilian economy, and WATCHDOG and the PRT kept fighting them back.

The Elite literally sold and maintained the forcefields that the Protectorate used on the East Coast. The one in Brockton Bay was theirs.
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>>93782236
They did business too, don't get me wrong. But they were in an eternal cold war with the PRT. The reason the PRT doesn't shut them down totally is because they can't.
They should have noticed what Lisa was upto and shut her down within the two years of the time skip
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>>93766378
Hey now there was-
>Biollante was 1989
shit.
>>
>>93782262
>They should have noticed what Lisa was upto and shut her down within the two years of the time skip

How would they have managed that, exactly? Remember, the PRT never had a good day against the Undersiders, with or without Skitter along. Hell, after she left they had Accord and the Ambassadors with them, and later the Red Hands or whatever they were called.

Plus, don't forget, the Undersiders shared with the Elite the distinction of being better than the alternative. They kept the city running, crime at a minimum, and the other villains away. That was after the Echidna reveal and Alexandria's death, the fracturing of the Protectorate, the breakaway of the Irregulars, Legend stepping down, Defiant and Dragon's ultimatum, etc etc etc. It was not a good time for the forces of law and order, and I haven't even gotten into the end-of-the-world stuff yet (with which the Undersiders were willing to help).
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>>93782222
In the Worm universe, the labels are just there so everyone knows how to approach them in terms of their threat levels

Hero. Does good as an official Protectorate member.
Independent Hero. Does good without being a Protectorate member.
Rogue. Neutral. Uses powers for money, like Canary or Parian.
Villain. Does bad things.
Bogeyman. Does bad things and is untouchable. Contessa, Blasphemies, Sleeper, Ash Beast.
>>
>>93782400
Was the term bogeyman ever used on anyone besides contessa?

>>93782396
Accord died pretty early into their agreement
I guess that's the most likely cause. Noone can be assed to do anything about it. I don't think the undersiders are that strong in reality, it's mostly show, but I guess the PRT could be overrating them and afraid to fight them
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>>93782540
Number Man is also bogeyman.
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>>93782540
>I don't think the undersiders are that strong in reality, it's mostly show, but I guess the PRT could be overrating them and afraid to fight them

You serious? The Undersiders were a fucking nightmare of a team for anyone that wasn't tippy-top-tier. Not as much early on, of course, but it wasn't just Skitter that got better as time progressed. They all upped their game.

Just imagine any Protectorate team shown on-screen that doesn't have Eidolon on it, and imagine how well they'd do against the Undersiders post-Echidna. I think you'll find that the Undersiders would have them on the ropes right from the beginning, and probably send them packing without much difficulty.
>>
>>93782608
What? Really?
Grue is a powerful shaker-trump, but trauma has literally eroded his confidence in himself to the point that he shut down during the echidna fight.
Bitch can make mid tier brutes.
Regent is dead
Parian's creations pop pretty easily, shes a low level master
Foil is by far their most dangerous member. But I doubt she would fight at her fullest against a protectorate team.
Tattletale is their other hard hitter. Tattletales power pretty much works as the plot demands it though, so its hard to make an assumption on how she'd do

>>93782606
Number man is also best character in worm
>>
>>93781975

It's always entertaining seeing Taylor from the PoV of other characters, where she comes across as far less sympathetic, far more creepy and immensely disturbing to watch/listen to when she's "in the zone".
>>
>>93782540
>PRT could be overrating them and afraid to fight them
PRT/Protectorate don't fight people because they can't, because if they bring out their top guns in one place, they can sweep any individual villain barring GU or Godmode Final Form Lung.
They don't fight villains because they know doing it will end up in more collateral damage than it's worth. Better just to let the villains make their own status quo on that case. That's why they don't want to take on Bonesaw (giant plague) or Heartbreaker (pulls all his civilian slaves into the crossfire).
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>>93782676
>What? Really?

Yeah, really. I'm serious. Propose a team that could beat the Undersiders on their home-turf, one that doesn't include Eidolon, Contessa, or Number Man.
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>>93778078
Nah, Plut's an angry Superman for most of Irredeemable and when he learns just what he is he's still a bitch. Case in point the ending where he takes on a planets worth of AIDS-radiation and spreads himself across the multiverse just because Dr. Who told him to even though his powers were straight up reality warping.

This motherfucker goes into the Worm universe, what happens
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>>93782721
Faultine's Crew, it's made of Undersider hard counters. Only Tattletale's bullshit plot fiat could save them.
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>>93782540

>Tfw Accord could have done so much more for the world if only anyone had deigned to listen to him.

He was taken from us too soon.
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>>93782714
>PRT/Protectorate don't fight people because they can't, because if they bring out their top guns in one place, they can sweep any individual villain barring GU or Godmode Final Form Lung.

Don't forget that they're also heavily outmatched in both numbers and high-level powers by the villain population at large. The Protectorate is just more unified. But if they started concentrating their forces and sweeping one area after another clean of villains, the villains would stop playing cat-and-mouse and actually start fighting. That's not a winning game for the good guys, which is why they always wait until a given villain/gang has stepped too far out of line before they bring in reinforcements.
>>
>>93782757
Isn't he basically Scion with a focus on criminals?
>>
>>93782721
Stormtiger and Cricket could take on Grue. They can sense him through his Fog of War. In fact, E88 at top strength could wipe the Undersiders out if they went all in. The only reason they didn't in Worm was because they got doxxed and then Leviathan came.
>>
>>93782765

I'm pretty sure that Grue + Bitch alone could take out their entire team. Faultline's crew doesn't have any heavy hitters aside from Labyrinth, after all.

I mean, let's remember that Burnscar ALONE took on all of Faultline's crew, and Grue solo killed Burnscar while Jack and Bonesaw were also present.
>>
>>93782676

>Parian's creations pop pretty easily, shes a low level master

Or so we think. Apparently she's been using it wrong, and by using it correctly she could have been strong enough to hamper even Behemoth for a time. Wildbow has been deliberately coy about avoiding explaining it though. One more plot thread for Worm 2 I guess.
>>
>>93782721
BB protectorate, pre leviathan, probs stomps undersiders, if we're going all out
Master/Stranger protocols shut down Lisa
Battery and Assault shut down Bitch and parian
Miss militia shuts down Foil, and regent if hes still alive
Armsmaster shuts down Grue and Skitter
Dauntless can back up any of the others
In the charity dinner thing, all the undersiders managed to do was cause a scene and get away for a long enough time for the traverles + circus to help them deal with just armsmaster and dauntless
Honestly, I think if they planned it out and had the benefit of surprise, Dauntless and Armsmaster might solo
>>
>>93782813

>and Grue solo killed Burnscar while Jack and Bonesaw were also present.

Yeah, but that was while he was channeling one of the more bullshit powers in the entire story.
>>
>>93782793

That was before his second trigger, though. And even then it wasn't easy. Don't forget that Hookwolf was there too, and got totally shut down by Grue. Post-second-trigger he could almost certainly take them. As for the E88 as a whole, they were a state-level gang (or more, they had international connections and a huge corporation funding them), and even if they could win (I personally think they wouldn't, just because they didn't have any useful thinkers or any real mobility powers), it would be incredibly hard-fought.
>>
>>93782823
Yeah, but as she uses it, it's a low level master. Wildbow teases cause that what wildbow does

>>93782770
I feel like having people not listen to him was an unknown part of his power. Nobody ever pays attention to what he says, despite being a super competent thinker.
>>
>>93782787
Now I never knew Worm existed until this thread and it seems from a quick Wiki run that Scion is evil Superman #9982 whose back story is a lot like Plutonian's (probes from higher beings to learn from humanity that end up going nuts and killing anything and everything they can)

Stardust isn't so much a evil Superman as much of a complete and utter Superdick who punishes criminals and liberals with fates worse than death. That and he brainwashes children into fighting those fucking interventionists that want to get us into the war.
>>
>>93782823

Fuck, just her creations as they were could take on Leviathan for a while. She had tricks, too, like making a creation around herself or manipulating her costume like armor.

People forget how strong Parian was. She just didn't like to fight, so she wasn't on-screen much going all-out.
>>
>>93782813
>Faultline's crew doesn't have any heavy hitters aside from Labyrinth, after all.

Newter is fucking broken, dude. Definitely hard counters the dogs and Bitch herself.
>>
>>93782877

It would be just like a Shard to deliberately ensure that the guy whose power is to solve complex problems and end all conflicts would never have their ideas taken seriously.
>>
>>93782332
Check fucking mate Anon.

The art of making cool giant monsters is as lost as Damascus steel.
>>
>>93782889
You should read the story, you got everything wrong.

That said, you are still correct that they're nothing alike besides the fact they're both huge autists
>>
>>93782877
>Nobody ever pays attention to what he says, despite being a super competent thinker.
Because he's crazy OCD. He kills people if they visit his office a minute too late or their neckties are died wrong. If his OCD came with his power just like Bitch got her Dog Savant Autism, then it's probably his shard balancing out the OP-ness of his power.
>>
>>93782841
>Honestly, I think if they planned it out and had the benefit of surprise, Dauntless and Armsmaster might solo

Heroes don't get to go on the offensive, though. That's the prerogative of villains. Plus, do you really think that anyone's going to manage to arrange a surprise offensive against the Undersiders post-Echidna? That was when Tattletale had all of Coil's old resources and connections, remember.
>>
>>93782889
You literally could not be more wrong
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>>93782905

He really, really, really doesn't. Bitch's dogs are WAY above him in mobility, and any one of them could just make him go crunch. He's fast, but he doesn't have any extra strength or durability.
>>
>>93782972
Why are you assuming they will fight in an open field?
>>
>>93782954
If the PRT got tired of the undersiders, they'd allow a strike team against them. And as I mentioned, WATCHDOG should have been shutting down those connections when Lisa started accessing them.
The question was simply wether or not the undersiders were that tough. I think besides Skitter and Tattletale (And foil later on), they're all mid tier capes.
Now the travellers... they were some heavy hitters
>>
>>93782925
>>93782957
But I did read Stardust, just the other week. He's not STRAIGHT up evil, just a complete shithead of a person like his creator.

Unless you're talking about Worm which fuck that. The fact that I know such a complete pile of autistic garbage exists makes me want to drown myself
>>
>>93782692
Taylor is far less sympathetic when viewed from the outside. Clockblocker seems unnecessarily antagonistic and unreasonable with her during the Echidna battle, but if you look back at their prior interactions, the first time he ever faced her on the battlefield, she shoved bugs under his eyelids and down his throat during the Bank Robbery. That's second trigger level of traumatizing.
>>
>>93782905
Not really, unless he touches them in the eye. The dogs are all dead tissue. If he got his gunk on them, it wouldn't be entering their system
>>
>>93783022
I wasn't aware of this, are you sure? Then I guess he's pretty useless unless he gets to Bitch
>>
>>93783011
We were clearly talking about worm though
Okay, noones forcing you to read it. We're here discussing worm though. :)
>>
>>93783011
You read Stardust but you think Worm is autistic garbage?
>>
>>93783001

Doesn't have to be an open field to start with. This isn't early-canon Bitch, after all. This is post-Echidna Bitch, with a dozen dogs + Bastard and a hell of a lot of experience. Like I said, it wasn't just Skitter that got stronger as the story progressed. All the Undersiders stepped up their game.

Plus, Bitch had a pretty all-concealing costume, and if it's an ambush by Newter she had a lot of people working for her plus Barker and Biter. Also she lived on the other side of the portal, which makes the open field scenario a lot more likely.
>>
>>93783005
>If the PRT got tired of the undersiders, they'd allow a strike team against them.

Who, exactly? Honestly, if you're such an expert on Worm, name the capes that the PRT would send. Who makes up this mythical, never-revealed-in-canon team that would just sweep the Undersiders away?
>>
>>93783033
Yep, panacea mentions it. Who knows though, its probably not regular drugs that guys exuding. Maybe they can affect the dogs
>>
>>93783083
Dragon would.
She tried to sweep the Undersiders in canon, but I felt that the whole scene was a shitshow and she was nerfed by Plot Necessity.
>>
>>93783083
I don't know every hero in the protectorate lmao. But...
Sans Armsmaster, the BB protectorate wasn't ever noted as being something special, yet they would stomp the undersiders. Leads me to think a there are more powerful protectorate teams out tehre that would probs make short work of the undersiders.
>>
>>93782765

Let's see:

Faultline (Can separate molecular bonds in non-living material just by touching it.)

Gregor the Snail (Can spray all sorts of chemicals, basically a walking containment-foam dispenser.)

Newter (Literally any of his bodily fluids can incapacitate living things that come into contact with them, can run fast enough to keep pace with a horse-sized Brutus.)

Labyrinth (Large scale reality warping/transposing, but has to remain still and less lucid for maximum effect.)

Spitfire (Jet fuel CAN melt steal beams.)

Shamrock (Passive telekinesis/"luck field" that tips the odds in her favor, hampers precogs.)

Scrub (Erases/teleports chunks of matter, bypassing defenses, no control.)

Dinah? (Calculates probabilities, no good in a direct confrontation.)

I mean, I guess I could see it, potentially. I don't think they would go down easily.
>>
>>93783111
Yep. This happens more than once. (See, Alexandria). Even wildbow isn't immune to PIS.
>>
>>93783057
Worm is a bunch of cheap ideas from other media thrown together in a shitstew of a work. Stardust was an unalloyed power fantasy written by an old man with a history of alcoholism and who treated everyone like shit. Both are garbage but Stardust is at least entertainingly bad.
>>
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>>93777584
...even if it's a bug.
>>
>>93783136
god, I need to reread Worm, I have no idea when Dinah joined her crew
>>
>>93783020

Yeah, but even from her perspective I would think most readers would pick up on the fact that she's kind of casual about doing really fucked up traumatic shit to people without batting an eye. Like it doesn't even register that she's doing anything extreme until other people call her out on it.
>>
>>93783156
What do you read, anon? Im curious
>>
>>93783156
Why are you here if Worm doesn't entertain you?

>>93766458
>Endbringers are not living creatures
The Simurgh is definitely sentient, depends on how you'd define living
>>
>>93783163
She was with them at the jack showdown, she joined them after the time skip
>>
>>93783124

They really, really, really wouldn't. Honestly, apart from MM who on the team could even deal with Bitch's dogs? Let alone Grue putting them in sensory deprivation and jacking their powers. Plus with Tattletale there you can bet the Undersiders would be the ones on the offense (or at worst laying an ambush).

Again, I'm not talking about the early-canon Undersiders here. This is specifically post-Echidna, when they basically rule the city. Plus they're not even on their own, since they either have Accord + the Ambassadors (and Regent) early on, or the Red Hands later.
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>>93783163
I don't think Dinah actually joined.
She just went independent, does calls for money, and is associated with Faultline without being a member, probably for protection and the fact she's like 13 years old. Dinah isn't in the scene where Faultline's group infiltrates the Madison containment zone and then Contessa beats them up for looking for the truth.
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>>93783262
Assault would utterly stomp Bitchs dogs.
You said the undersiders were strong enough to take anyone, now its undersiders + everyone else? Which one is it?
Tattletale is a wild card, cause her power is literally "whatever gets the plot moving". But supposedly, it shouldnt let her predict an attack
Armsmaster has been shown to completely negate Grue's darkness and skitters bugs.
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>>93783318

Right from the beginning I was countering the assertion that the PRT could casually sweep the Undersiders away any time they pleased, to the point that apparently it was a plot-hole that they were allowed to stick around at all. I mentioned the Ambassadors and the Red Hands like 20 fucking posts ago, so forgive me for not reiterating every tiny point of the argument every time I make a post.

That said, even if it's just the Undersiders we're talking about, canon would definitely support me over you. After all, the Undersiders repeated fought the Protectorate, including Assault, and won each and every single time.

Anyone that thinks the ENE branch would beat the Undersiders at the height of their power is, frankly, ignoring the evidence of the story.
>>
The thing about power level debates involving the Undersiders, is that their power levels go up and down depending on the time in-story. Early Undersiders is just the main crew. Tattletale at that point explicitly says she has trouble reading people, but situations and data like computer passcodes are easier. That's forgotten about pretty quickly, as TT starts using her power mainly on people, starting from the Bank Robbery. Late Undersiders has powered up Trump Grue and Shatterbird Slave. Late-Late Undersiders has Red Hands and Ambassadors. Late-Late-Late Undersiders has Khepri.

If you're going to power wank debate the Undersiders, you have to lay out which point in the timeline you're going to use.
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>>93783380
The only time they thought assault, they literally had to run the fuck away, and only got away from Armsmaster and Dauntless thanks to support from a much stronger team.
The red hands really arent much to talk about, but the red hands are incorporated into the undersiders after Accord's death (See the chapter with skitter in jail)
IF we're including all the red hands, and the ambassdors, then yeah, no one team is gonna cut it save the triumvirate. But thats cause its a shitload of capes, not cause they have high power levels.
My point is that the undersiders, as a team, are not that strong, and that its mostly image that keeps them on top
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>>93783432
>Tattletale at that point explicitly says she has trouble reading people, but situations and data like computer passcodes are easier. That's forgotten about pretty quickly

That was when she was lying to Taylor, though. Chances are she just said it so as not to spook her, and/or because it made the other Undersiders feel better. Or maybe it was just part of her running her game on Coil.
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>>93783432
Pretty obvious noone is including khepri in this. Besides, Khepri on her own isn't that strong of a cape.
We're discussing the undersiders post Behemoth, which includes the red hands but probably not the ambasaddors
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>>93783485
Yeah, I'm just salty because of this post >>93782841

>BB protectorate, pre leviathan, probs stomps undersiders, if we're going all out
>Miss militia shuts down Foil, and regent if hes still alive

If you're using Pre-Levi BB Protectorate, why is MM fighting Foil? She would still be Flechette, a Ward from New York. On a hypothetical level, maybe it works, but the wacky timeline hijinks for the sake of the power wanking just rustles my jimmies.
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>>93783460
>The only time they thought assault, they literally had to run the fuck away, and only got away from Armsmaster and Dauntless thanks to support from a much stronger team.

Skitter also went up against him in the PRT building, and he was one of the Protectorate capes that responded to the other, earlier break in to the PRT building. He's zero for three against them.

>>93783460
>My point is that the undersiders, as a team, are not that strong, and that its mostly image that keeps them on top

Your point is just wrong, though. The Undersiders are hella strong. Strong enough that by the time they're in charge of the city they're casually embarrassing entire other teams in rapid succession with only fractions of their forces. The Pure, Chosen, Fallen, Teeth, Heartbreaker, Lost Garden, all got themselves tossed out on their heels. Probably more, too, since that's only the ones they dealt with before or around Behemoth.
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>>93783565
IMO, many of the Undersiders' earlier victories came from having a lot of luck and Coil on their side nudging the timeline to the one where they had the better result. Undersiders vs. Lung, vs. Bakuda, E88 pre-Leviathan.

If Taylor wasn't in the right place at the right time in Arc 1 where she made bugs eat Lung's nuts, the Undersiders would have died.
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>>93768407
>Spacebattles has a history of producing an abnormal number of great fanfics of many settings and the average fanfic productions on spacebattles are a dozen times superior to the slosh that get cranked out of FF.net

[DISAGREEMENT.]
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>>93783790
Dude, SB has a lot of common pitfalls, but have you SEEN the average fanfic of FFnet? I bet you only get exposed to the good ones and have never actually tried browsing the site. Go and do it.
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>>93783851
>90%+ of content, no matter where it's posted, is shitty. It's just Sturgeon's Law, and SB isn't immune to it. Also SB has much worse reader commenting than FF.net, because they can reply to each other and turn into an mindless circlejerk.
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>>93783913
90% content is shittier than AVERAGE. And SB has a way higher average than FFnet, to the point where I'd say the worst fic in SB is ironically still better than 90% of FFnet fics.
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>>93783935
I will concede that spelling/grammar is better on SB, if only because the forum response allows pointing out mistakes where FF.net is worse for generating discussion/communication between authors and readers. But in terms of the actual content of the stories, both SB and FF fall into the trend for cookie cutter uninspired AltPowers written by people who don't understand Taylor's personality, and never get past the locker and the stations of canon.

And on both sites, there's the astounding number of authors who haven't read or finished Worm, yet write fanfiction for it. Some of which are terrible self-insert or gamer fics.
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>>93784201

>both SB and FF fall into the trend for cookie cutter uninspired AltPowers.

That's not an indication of average fic quality in and of itself. SB's worst executions are FF's depiction of average.

The slosh of the Altpower fics tend to focus on the mechanics and effects of a particular power-set, at the expense of the characterization and narrative.

Pic unrelated. How about we play some fanfic bingo?
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>>93784445
It's not hard to find a fic that meets 5 of the bingo squares, even if you can't get them all in a row.

I think a real challenge is to list actually good fanfics that stand up as good for fanfic (plot, characterization, writing, resolution), not just good compared to the cesspool of Worm fanfics in general on SB or FF.net.
>>
>>93757291
Wildbow himself said the League could beat the endbringers.
https://www.reddit.com/r/whowouldwin/comments/2sju2u/the_endbringers_worm_vs_the_justice_league/
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>>93785154
>JL wins but tons of destruction and death anyway

I see he's only counting the JL cartoon league since he's not accounting for all other League members.
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>>93757291
Sure, I mean, what's he gonna do? Flood Atlantis? Generally speaking, Worm Capes are low to mid tier compared to DC. If Arthur can call on the other DC heroes, stopping Leviathan should be no issue. Without their help... well, does he have access to Atlantis' army/navy? If he has to solo, then yeah, could be tough but not beyond the realm of probability.

Also, all that supergalactic dense core thing was just random guessing by Tattletale, who up to that point of the story, actually had a pretty bad batting average. She didn't become infallible until after Leviathan. Even then, there's not enough collateral damage or ambient destruction to indicate that the Endbringers are THAT tough. It's like in comics where they say the villain has a laser that can destroy a planet, but when that laser actually fires, you see it's just a tiny thing that couldn't possibly be a planet buster, and all it blows up is a car or something.

Anyway, back on track, yeah, Aquaman can conceivably stop Leviathan solo. If he has help, then Leviathan's just another day in the office.

And as much as people fear the Simurgh, because they simply attribute every bad thing that happens to her like we attribute bad things to the devil... DC has ACTUAL mind reading/controlling. So... yeah.
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>>93778078
Plutonian would fit right in.

I like both Worm and Iredeemable, and they're pretty much the same thing, right down to space alien concept dads. Plutonian just has a much higher "power level".
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>>93776958
Endbringers don't have shards though, they're constructs powered by shards.
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>>93768203
Would be actually nice to have him one of the main characters in part two. Would allow for fresh viewpoint on how the world become.
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>>93786439
It would be nice to see a main character in the Wormverse who isn't Taylor. I think it will break up the Taylor-fixation that the Worm fandom has fallen into. Taylor was only one small part of the final ending of GM, and she didn't even help that much because her mind/power had started breaking down by the time Tattletale came up with the idea of using Eden's image. But people like arguing that Taylor is the center of the universe, that her worldview is 100% correct, and morals and choices are perfectly justified. Which is writing skill on the author's count, but poor comprehension on the readers'.

I will be laughing if people say they can't get into Worm 2 because Taylor isn't the MC.
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>>93780637
It's not the fans' fault that some people erupt into nuclear whinestorms of "THING IS TERRIBLE AND SO ARE YOU FOR DARING TO SPEAK OF IT" and "YOUR CHARACTERS ARE DUMB AND WORTHLESS AND OVERPOWERED AND ALL MY FAVORITE CHARACTERS COULD PWN THEM IN AN INSTANT WITH EASE BECAUSE THEY'RE SO PUNY" the instant it's mentioned. It's like they have a vested interest in making sure it's never, ever discussed. If they were treated like the problem they are, then we might be able to have a coherent discussion.
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>>93766258
I don't get why on /tg/ this tends to raise some butthurt. At the end of the day the Endies are just really, really dense accretions of matter compressed beyond all reason into a kaiju. Saitama tanked a kick at an appreciable fraction of the G-Drive's energy, and his one serious punch swiped apart a blast bigger than the one Phir Se could've used to blow up a continent with-and which shredded Behemoth into a skeleton. Even if it didn't hinder his fighting prowess much, it's easy to believe if Saitama can casually spam even more powerful attacks he can knock a hole in them.
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>>93788261
I never ever saw that kind of autism on /tg/, every time I remember someone posting that retarded reddit thread it led to people mocking the "fans" claiming Saitama would lose just like they did in this thread.
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>>93766477
>>93766478
>>93772699
kys immediately
>>93766482
>>93767161
this tho
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>>93768170
Gray Boy was legitimately terrifying.
The scene where Jack plays the video is one of my favorites. Accentuated by Jack lying about it being a live recording, so Gray Boy is right there.
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>>93784201
There's nothing inherently wrong with gamer or self-insert fics, dude.
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>>93788688
They make for interesting hypotheticals, but boring narratives.

Gamer fics make for boring plots, as they focus on a non-stop grind to gain enough points to kill Scion. You can can tell what the story is about as soon as you see "Worm" and "Gamer" in the same title. It's the same thing every single time. Read one, and you've read them all.

Self-inserts make for terrible characters because people who write them think that writing themselves is easier than learning how to flesh out a character properly. Trouble is, they're usually not true reflections of the author's personality. Most of the time they're smug sociopaths who know the plot of Worm, and use this information (along with their pro-Taylor morality) to bulldoze anyone they don't like in Worm (Coil, Sophia, Tagg) because they gotta protect poor woobie Taylor. They tend to be boring stomps that tick every canon event, with an unlikeable and OP protagonist who picked cool powers with the Worm CYOA chart that made its way around /tg/ a few weeks ago.

Nothing inherently wrong, but the execution I've seen done in the Worm fandom sucks ass.
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>>93788748
I don't understand how one can read and more importantly like Worm yet fail to see how deeply flawed Taylor is as a person.
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>>93788748
>Gamer fics make for boring plots, as they focus on a non-stop grind to gain enough points to kill Scion

I don't understand how that's boring, Worm is the story of Taylor gaining shard points to kill Scion anyway. It's all in how you write it.
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>>93788783
Some people are just that oblivious I guess, they probably can identify with Taylor being a bullied and kind of pathetic person that turns into a vicious and hypocritical asshole. (And I'm saying that as someone who actually liked her as a character.)
But even then despite her flaws Taylor learns to be better than that and moves past the bullying without wanting any "revenge" or anything which is just about the best way you could handle the cringy early highschool chapters from a storytelling perspective, but still fanfiction authors really like to write Taylor annihilating the bullies because they are children unable to understand just how immature that way of handling things is and how important the character development of Taylor deciding to be the bigger person is.
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>>93788783
Because Worm is full of fights that happen one after another, or planning for said fights, with breakneck pacing that puts a million words into the first few weeks of Taylor's cape career. When you're reading it for the first time, you're too focused on the fighting, the wide range of powers, and clever applications of powers to one-up the rest of the factions in Brockton Bay. You don't pay attention to Taylor as a flawed and traumatized person, only Taylor as the creative bug girl with the crazy battlefield awareness and combat analysis skills. Taylor as a cool set of powers, instead of a human being.

Taylor honestly doesn't have that much of a personality outside of powers. She stopped going to school. She cut herself off from her father when he asked too many question and tried to step in after he found out about her truancy.

For someone we spend so much time getting to know the thought processes of, I don't know what Taylor wants. I don't know what she likes other than Grue kinda. I don't know who goes to her school other than the bullies and maybe Greg and Mr. Gladly. I don't know her Mom, other than the fact she's dead. I don't know her Dad (and isn't it weird she has zero connection basically with her family other than some asides?) and to be honest I think I know Armsmaster better than any of the Undersiders except Rachel.

I know plenty of girls (and some guys - but it seems to be more girls than boys) IRL that seem to not really have hobbies other than Netflix and going to school. They don't [i]do[/i] anything with themselves. Taylor seems so invested in the cape stuff because there's nothing else going on in her life except bullying.
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>>93788846
I would prefer to read a story, instead of a series of stat sheets.

It's all how you write it. And people don't write them well. As I said before, the execution is pure tripe.
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>>93788918
I confess I can't think of any good *worm* gamer fics, but SHINOBI: the RPG and the games we play are both excellent at least early on.
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>>93788923
It was a fad to write them a few years ago, as SB as an echo chamber/circlejerk has a tendency to pick up a gimmick when one becomes popular and others follow the leader.
Self-insert fics are more common these days, and just as bad. Maybe even worse.
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>>93788894
>Taylor honestly doesn't have that much of a personality outside of powers
Fucking what? She's controlling, manipulative, assertive, self centred, self-righteous, altruistic, creative, extremely motivated, self-conscious and prone to impulsiveness
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>>93788972
I think the main opinion here is that Taylor has no interests. She has character, but that doesn't translate to being a real person outside of fights and conflict. If you wanted to hang out with Taylor, she'd have nothing she wants to do.
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>>93783161
But Leviathan isn't a bug. It's an inanimate construct that's being controlled by a reality-warping extradimensional alien, which also happens to have water control powers as part of its design. Aquaman wouldn't be able to affect it, because even the weird comic book logical stretch of "his powers work on non-marine life because evolution" wouldn't apply to the shards.
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>>93789021
Yeah I get that. I don't see it as a writing flaw that she basically became an extreme workaholic though
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>>93788972
But why? So she has those traits, and she does stuff, but why does she do them?
To get Dinah back from Coil?
I found it hard to figure out her motivations. They just didn't make sense to me. She joined the Undersiders to turn them in. She kept doing jobs with them because she needed more trust from them, more information. She quit before Leviathan and came back to take down the boss. She kept doubling down.

If you look deeper at who Taylor is, it seems like she doesn't even know what she wants, really. She's a big sack of lies in a spidersilk jumpsuit.
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>>93789095
She didn't seem to have much of one pre-Emma either, honestly. Even the flute was her mom's thing.

Taylor would have been more interesting if she was into art, or programming, or literally anything, just any hobby at all. Maybe Worm 2 will have an arc about that.
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>>93788892
But Taylor gets her revenge anyway, it's just done by other people so she doesn't have to feel guilty about it.
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>>93789112
Worm 2 is implied to not have Taylor in it, but a new MC. I wouldn't want Taylor in W2, anyway. Late stage Taylor had even less personality because she apparently spent the last 2 years preparing for the apocalypse. No friends, no family, no connection with anything.

And I think she deserves some peace and quiet after her ballistic brain surgery.
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>>93767695
>Pic
Sophia, what are you doing?
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>>93789112
And books. Taylor's mom was an English professor at the local university. But I can't remember Taylor reading books or any times where she seemed like a bookish type of person. Sure, she does research and browses PHO/wikis to look up capes before she fights them, but I don't think there were any moments where I took her for a literature person.
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>>93789177
Yeah, many fanfics seem to have her as this huge book nerd, usually so they can ship her with Panacea (???). But I don't remember Taylor opening a single book in the entire story.

This conversation is making me hate taylor. She's the dudebro of women.
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>>93768037
I blame everyone getting obsessed with Feint.

I mean, we get it, he has Oppositional Defiant Disorder, stop fucking enabling him!
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>>93785154

>If one threw an Endbringer into the sun, though, given what the core is...they might risk putting out the sun, or at least disturbing it to the point that Earth was gravely affected.

That's pretty good to know.
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>>93767951
>>93768037
>>93789189
so is PRT Quest worth reading? I'd say no, since I never heard it recommended, only complained about
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>>93785752

The "supergalactic dense core" and the fact that all the Endbringers were deliberately jobbing the entire time are both confirmed things.
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>>93789187
Is Panacea even a literature person? Lol, what the fuck.

I have seen people rec'ing Worm in male-dominated communities (i.e. r/rational and Spacebattles) with the explanation that even though Taylor is a female protagonist, there is nothing about her that is overly feminine. As a main character, she doesn't have any distinctly girly traits other than insecurity about her appearance and vanity about her hair, which isn't restricted to females. She could have been a male protag and the story would have been no different than it is. replace Emma and friends with Chad McCleftchin and his varsity bros, and the locker with a dumpster. Even the Brian attraction wouldn't have been out of place, since the dude has been hitting the gym since he was like 12.
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>>93789220
The supplementary documents are worth looking at it if you like the Worm universe and wanted to know more about the PRT, their threat assessment rating system, and stuff like that. Good if you wanted to run your own Weaverdice campaign.
https://docs.google.com/document/d/1hqJy4YEDqpKLwbatFVBLXnhs7dDTNykSYtDUCiR9ZBo/edit#

But the characters are either shitty or fucked up in the head by their powers, and the ending sucks, as it has a cop out "All just a dream" ending, and has been declared non-canon to the main Worm story. Only the supplementary factsheets are canon.

If you want to read more Worm, I recommend waiting until Worm 2, or reading some of the few decent fanfics out there.
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>>93789220
Did you like the wordbuilding of Worm and want more of that?
Then the additional material written for PRT Quest is worth checking out, I haven't read all of it yet but it seems like Wildbow wrote entire handbooks on how the PRT is supposed to operate which is pretty interesting.
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>>93789259
I'm not a new fan, I've just avoided PRT Quest for like a year. I think I already know the classification stuff too, from fandom talk.
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>>93789267
Hey friendo, guess who got imp'd.
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>>93789128
I still would like an interlude focusing on her to see how is adapting to a life with no powers a no clear purpose
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>>93789279
That would go against the ending of Worm which was meant to be deliberately ambiguous. Is Taylor dead? Is her new life in Aleph just a coma dream? Or is it real? Wildbow refuses to give a clear answer about it other than to troll.

I can't see Wildbow changing the meaning and intent of his epilogue by writing Taylor into Worm 2. He's implied he's going with a new (probably female) protagonist. It's only the fans who want Taylor's return, not him.
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>>93789221
>The "supergalactic dense core"
Which, by the way, is total bullshit. I mean, galaxies are huge. Really, really, REALLY huge. Shards can handwave most of their crazy powerful feats with the fact that each one is using an entire planet as a power source, but a planet is nowhere near the size of a galaxy. Eidolon basically created over six hundred billion planets by accident, which is totally out of scale with what anyone else in the story does and with anything that they should be capable of doing. No shard, even an "unshackled" one, would have that much power. I'd find it hard to believe a whole Entity would have that much power, even with all the reality-warping wizardry they can do. If they're capable of that, then they've either solved entropy already, or wasting ridiculous amounts of energy for no good reason.
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>>93789299

>Eidolon basically created over six hundred billion planets by accident

Technically he didn't "create" them, he just tapped into a preexisting Entity protocol long before it was supposed to be activated.
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>>93789269
IMHO, it's not really a great story from a narrative perspective. The voters sucked, the characters suck (THAT FUCKING FEINT), and the ending sucked. The only redeeming quality is the depth of its worldbuilding, but that's only if you care about it.

Read it if you really want to know more about the universe. But it's not Worm. There's no Taylor, the writing is different from Worm because it's written in second person, and each chapter is short and has a long stat sheet list of possible choices to make. It's definitely not a story you can sink your teeth into and binge without sleeping or eating.
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>>93789318
Yeah, Eden created them, Eidolon just found the trigger to control them.
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>>93789296
Uh that ambiguity slipped past me pretty hard, I should probably re-read the last parts. I don't really have a problem with a new protagonist, it's the best option to continuing the story anyway.
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>>93789299
The worm mutliverse has more universes then there are atoms in a single universe. So that means that the entities have access to 10^80 universes. Which is a ridiculous amount of realities to draw a even more ridiculous amount of resources from. Think about a single drop of water, that a trillion trillion atoms of H20 there, then think about that single drop compared to a swimming pool, then that swimming pool to the ocean, the ocean to the planet, the planet to the sun, the sun to a galaxy, the galaxy to a supercluster...

The entities in their very fist cycle before they gained all their cool shit like FTL or warping spacetime already exhausted all 10^80 iterations of their home planet.

See Sting, which hits every 10^80 universes at once. Due to how Sting works, every time it's used,. it's consuming more energy and mass then the observable universe.

> If they're capable of that, then they've either solved entropy already, or wasting ridiculous amounts of energy for no good reason.

Such ridiculous amount of mass and energy can still be used up quickly if you're using exponential growth rates. And they are wasting a lot of energy, hence Eden worrying that the entities will be end up eating the entire multiverse clean before long and the end goal of the entities to reserve entropy and find a waste to generate an infinite amount of energy.
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>>93789371
It's surprising how much people miss by skim-reading Worm in 1-2 weeks. Most people don't realize what a cunt Taylor is until the second time around, and only if they look closer. If you do plan on picking up Worm 2 when Wildbow starts posting the chapters in around 2-4 months from now, a re-read of Worm would be a good idea.

I've been listening to the podcasted re-read and analysis of Worm and they've been pretty on-point with breaking down Taylor's character flaws.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4HydKjQMzJ8&list=PLCW6KR4MVOXaGS2KlDJzWITG0RzAJ9NLo
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>>93781161
Worm heroes are infinitely less capable when compared to DC heroes. You seriously do not understand the scale that DC heroes operate on.

>ome of his greatest feats of might however preclude pushing a tectonic plate over the entrance to the trench's lair, the heft of which is roughly 4.0678242e+22 kg. or 44 quintillion metric tons.

Aquaman is so spectacularly far and ahead of anything Worm can put out it's not even funny. I don't understand Worm fans obsession with powerlevels, considering how low-powered that setting is.
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>>93789401
It's something about the parahuman classification system with specific names for each cape class and number ratings that attracts all the autists.
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>>93789396
I fucking hate this artist's artstyle, they always draw faces the same, with full lips and extremely wide mouths, exaggerated noses, tan skin even when it doesn't fit (pic unrelated), and weird anatomy (just look at her forearms).

And they're the most prolific of all artists, for some dumb reason.
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>>93789409
I get that, but those only exist because literally every character you encounter is like a 4 on the scale, and when a 6 comes along you're like "oh shit!" and the whole time, in the back of your mind, you're wondering "shit, what if it gets higher?" That's what makes Worm's system so interesting. People going "Endbringers fuck up armies of heroes!" when one of their strongest bruiser-type guys was just a dude with a lot of redundant organs who could fly. An army of heroes who are as durable and strong as your regular human isn't impressive.

Just sucks that the autists are giving people bad impressions of a pretty good cape story.
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>>93789424
Lol, if you think that, you haven't seen Pabel and Nine. This is the real most prolific artist in the fandom.

Look at that green Skitter and the white Miss Militia. Is it better to have tan skin when it doesn't fit, or white skin when it doesn't fit?
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>>93789396
Don't get me wrong I took my to read Worm but somethings go over my head, that kind of stuff then to happen when you are no native speaker of a language. And don't worry dude I notice how munch of a cunt she was, you can see it in every interaction of her with any kind of authority. I should probably give that a podcast a try
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>>93789455
I don't think they are still prolific nowadays, but I hate that one too
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>>93789075
You seem to severely overestimate how much Aquaman cares about 'logic'

He controls microorganisms in people's blood, too. No justification, just 'shut up and get on the platelet'
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>>93767392
I didn't read it. I spoiled myself on what would happen, and then started reading it to see if the actual writing and execution of events in the work appealed to me. And jesus fuck Wildbow can NOT write engaging anything.
>>
I just had the best idea.

An offshoot thing centred on a trio of Crawlerclones made by Echidna.
Ned, Nedd and Neddy
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>>93789503
If I had the money, I'd commission good Worm character art. The ones I've seen are all disappointingly mediocre.
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>>93789614
>>
>>93789541
How far in did you stop? Worm was Wildbow's first published web serial, and the first few arcs are pretty rough compared to the later ones. The whole thing is only a first draft with chapters posted days after or within the day of being written, and you can tell.
That said, if you care about prose in fiction, you shouldn't be reading Worm. Try /lit/.
>>
>>93789687
Prose is literally why I dropped it, since there's barely fucking any.
>>
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skitter_by_neoworm-d9mp6r7.jpg
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>>93789643

It's pretty hard to find the good stuff.
>>
>>93789708
I think the problem is that there is way, way, way too much. It doesn't need to be as long as it is. It falls into many of the same issues as most genre fiction. But if you can stomach Sanderson's writing, Wildbow's is near on that same level. Sparse description, awkward internal dialogue, too many extended fight scenes that read like a written out video game play-by-play, too many interludes that break up the flow and pacing of the story.

I read it and liked some parts of it enough to finish because I have a soft spot for cape fiction. Obviously, I know it's nowhere close to perfect, and has some good parts in a sea of okay parts. If you don't like it at all, I have to wonder why you're here.
>>
>>93789783
Wildbow may be a mediocre at best writer but he managed to luck into an at least decently interesting world.

And I like shitposting
>>
>>93789668
Well I'm glad I made someone happy.

Also, I think Nedd would be an Adaptation Tinker, don't you? as in, his Tech is capable of adapting itself.
>>
>>93789869
>he managed to luck
I wouldn't say luck, his world building skills are pretty consistent if I look at his other works.
Sadly the type of mistakes he makes are just as consistent, way too fast pacing for example.
>>
>>93789956
>way too fast pacing for example.
The curse of the web serial - gotta make something interesting happen every chapter, because how else are you going to make your readers come back next week for the fresh update. The story pacing might work if you're only reading 2 chapters a week with a break of several days between one chapter and the next, but you can see how fast it is when you read the finished work in one go.
>>
>>93789504
That was a gag in a children's cartoon.
>>
What does /co/ think of GENOSCYTHE THE EYERAPER!?

This is a serious question.
>>
>>93790030
Dead and not canon.
Not to mention he was a joke character meant to embody all that is Grimderp about Worm.
>>
>>93789885
[Spoiler] Probably, Neddy should have a master power something to do with suggestion and Ned should have the power set of the og crawler right? [/spoiler]
>>
>>93766495
None of the mind based powers in universe effect the endbringers. This probably indicates that telepathy wouldn't work.
>>
>>93767376
Thats not how ziz works. Whatever universe she attacked has an evil or predisposed superman to deal with eventually.
>>
>>93769132
Removing its core wouldn't kill the endbringer. The core IS the endbringer.
>>
>>93777222
I love how you can tell its the same faggot in each of the posts because he keeps using the phrase donut steel
>>
>>93778078
Everything is pretty much the same, top tier hero, eventually snaps from the pressure everyone throws their best at him until some super smart person kills him
>>
>>93789409
>>93789401
>>93789439
Again, Worm is not a superhero story. It's a shonen anime discussed as a superhero story. It's not about adventure and its not about character and its not about heart. It's about fights and powerlevels and classification systems and other autist catnips.

Worm.
Is.
Shit.
>>
>>93791879

I don't think you've actually read it.
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