There is absolutely nothing wrong with what Snyder did to Mister

This hurts the Dinifags, but it's true.

>new version of an already great character
Fuck off, don't fix what is not broken.

>>93576497
People like DiniFreeze because he has a good character design and story to him. It renovated what was once a D-List Silver Age villain into something interesting in one of the best episodes of an already critically acclaimed cartoon.

I don't HATE Snyder Freeze, I just think it's stupid. It's going out of it's way to be different, with the big twist that "Oh, Nora's NOT his wife!"

Making another Mr. Freeze from the ground up would've been better IMO. Doesn't have to be Victor Fries.

>>93576955
Actually OP I like this better.

>>93576497
>Character is defined by X
>"Oh actually no he's not he just thought he was"

This is the worst way to reinterpret a character. Basically just Hydra Cap.

>>93576497
>lets take away everything that people like about this character and revert him back to generic villain status that was so popular he was dead in the comics for years until BTAS remade the character
lol

There's no denying that Mr. Freeze is a one trick pony as far as stories go, but there's no reason to do anything with him not involving Nora cause then he's yet another DC Ice-related villain.

>>93576497
>easy to write character > well written character
No. Just no.

>>93577007
Are you the new Boco? We already have one of those and it sucks.

>>93578166
You bet.

>>93576497
So why the fucking arm bands and pocket canisters?

>>93576497
The DCAU created far too many sacred cows that writers feel the need to stick to. While the execution might not be the best, its a good idea to move away from an increasingly old status quo and attempt something interneting.

How about putting the character to rest since he's only good for one bit instead of watering him down to a dime a dozen nutjob?

>>93578336
The same stories won't be tarnished. It's not like Strange & Doom being ruined by Bendis or anything.

>>93576497
What a terrible opinion.

>>93576497
>makes more sense for reusing him in the future
That's exactly the problem.

He doesn't NEED to be re-used over and over. Once his story is told, put him on ice until you can think of a legitimate reason to use him again, and if you can't, then just leave him alone.

Why does every villain have to be recurring?

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>>93576497
What happened now?

>>93576497
I like Injustice 2 Freeze. He looks like Snyder Freeze, but Nora is his wife. Also that German accent...

>>93576497
There is nothing fresh about turning him into Mad Hatter with a freeze gun.
Like everything Snyder does, it's a transparently tryhard attempt to rewrite Batman's history and fix what didn't need to be fixed.

>>93576497
Yeah, really fresh to have another generic insane Batman villain with a theme rather than the aspect of his character that differentiates him and toys with the readers sympathies, creating more intrigue to stories involving him

>>93580401
Failed jealous writer detected.

>>93578291
Are you samefagging?Literally everyone pro new version is using this same retarded excuse.

Want a new character?Make a new character, don't change the most important concept of a classic character for it.

Snyder tried to murder him cold.
Arnold Mr Freeze>cartoon Mr Freeze

>>93576707
He had one gimmick that falls apart the moment you decide him to be a reoccurring villain

>>93579928
>Why does every villain have to be recurring?
money?

>>93581079
Fuck off, BTAS didn't invent Freeze

>>93581512
It practically did, Mister Zero was basically nothing before that episode aired

>>93576497
>It's a fresh interpretation of a character and actually makes more sense for reusing him in the future than yet another issue of "I can't cure muh Nora".
How about you just don't use him again? Have Freeze cure Nora, then have some bittersweet tragic end where even though she's cured from her disease, since Freeze is a criminal ice man they can't be together. The biggest weakness of ongoing comics is that characters rarely have endings

>>93581512
>Fuck off, BTAS didn't invent Freeze

Heart of Ice is probably one of the most highly regarded eps of BTAS, before that he'd been some obscure nothing character, never used....

I don't hate what Snyder did but I don't think so much should have changed, part of what made Freeze cool was that he wasn't your bog standard crazy person he was a man on a mission, doing horrible things... fuck around with the Nora stuff all you want but keep that cold calm driven aspect to the character ffs...

>>93581691
Sympathetic villains are a lot more cliche than you think.

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>>93581029
I should have known it was bait

>>93578368
Thats not the point you idiot. Of course changing him doesnt magically negate the good that came before, but reducing him to another crazy is stupid and what makes him a good character isnt meant to be drawn out. He doesnt need to be an ongoing threat.

>>93581625
>How about you just don't use him again? Have Freeze cure Nora, then have some bittersweet tragic end where even though she's cured from her disease, since Freeze is a criminal ice man they can't be together. The biggest weakness of ongoing comics is that characters rarely have endings


He's way too good of a villian to never use him again even if you don't want writers messing with your mental toybox

Your idea of nora being cured then dying would be good though... then have him fade away only to come back a haunted and fucked up villain like a year later.

Would sell like hotcakes.

>>93576497
... How the fuck is it fresh? It's just the Mad Hatter. If anything it took the one thing that DID make Mister Freeze different about all the other Psychopathic Villians in Batman's Rogues gallery. Freeze was always one of the more reasonable villians, one who had a point to what he was doing, either for Vengeance or for trying to cure or appease his wife in some way.

>>93581727

No I'm aware theyre fairly common just that Batman's gallery of villians doesn't have many of them, and taking one away leaves who... Man-Bat, who iirc isn't even really a bad guy anymore? same with Clayface...

My point is Bat-Villans are already full to the brim with psycho's and insane people.

He's always been a shit villain. Outside his origin, you can't even tell a story about him.

>>93576497
>it's a fresh interpretation
Let me guess, you are the same kind of guy who thought Joker cutting off his face was "fresh and interesting", right ?

>>93581829
I always found Mr. Freeze a good analogy to directly conflate with Batman himself.

He's a man working out his grief with Vengeance, desperately clinging to a forlorn ideal to keep alive the spirit of their loved ones.

>>93581727
Still almost all villains are assholes, not desperate people that only want to save a loved one.

>>93581763
>Lets see how much mileage we can get out of this character to the point where fans hate him.
Thats your logic right now. God forbid ONE of Batmans rogues has a conclusive end. You want to read a never ending ice villain? Follow Captain Cold or some shit. You know what villains really need tweaking? Mad Hatter and Scarecrow. Because both of them need something more than being insane and getting off on hardcore drugs

>ITT: Snyderfags trying as hard as possible to justify the butchery of a character they don't care about

>>93581927
I always thought they never use the Mad hatter because it's legit just a costumed Pedophile that gets very creepy very fast.

Honestly? You could easily write tons of Mr Freeze stories, maybe he doesn't need to always be a villain?

>>93576497
>>93581512
pre BTAS was shit, a d-tier villain that would eventually disappear.

Look, that's a villain that you want to see suceed,a villain that make you care about him,no batman villain is like that.Very few villains make you feel like that.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TxGjZMo99is

>>93581786
Relax kid, I never said Freeze was so popular before BTAS. I'm just willing to accept different versions getting tried out instead of just jerking off the cartoon all day

Honestly, acting like BTAS' character interpretations are the end all-be all is pretty obnoxious

>>93576497
The only Pro about Synder's freeze was his Hot Mom and him not having motivation (since his relationship with Nora was fake) he's just this petty crazy guy.

Dr freeze as dini wrote him has easy character development. Just make him a good/neutral guy. It happened to Quicksilver, toyman, Scarlet witch.

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>>93582031
Yeah because Harley Quinn is so much better these days. Which you're right, BTAS shouldnt be the end all be all interpretation for every character. However Mr Freeze and Harley are arguably the exception given that they both were defined by that series

>>93582031

What's obnoxious is your insistence that the characters follow your god Snyder's view.

>>93581927
>Villains need to be sympathetic for them to work
Then why doesn't Mr Freeze have any good comics, but Scarecrow and Mad Hatter do? Sympathetic villains are so cliche that it's even cliche for Johns.

>>93582120
I never said that, at all. The point was Freeze's tragedy made him stand out from Batman's villains, thats it. Also go ahead, name a good Mad Hatter comic

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>>93581960
>they never use the Mad hatter because it's legit just a costumed Pedophile that gets very creepy very fast.
Which is phenomenally stupid because they insist on making Mad Hatter a pedophile and a hat fucker when he doesn't have to be one, but they do so because Morrison did it and they are too moronic to think of better ways to use Mad Hatter.
For most of Mad Hatter's existence, both his and his "imposter", his gimmick was hats and Alice in Wonderland. That's it. He doesn't even have a full backstory. Batman TAS gave him one and made him a pretty great villain but for some reason that never translated into the comics.

>>93582031
Everytime someone complains about Freeze's retcon there is always a retard that goes "hurr you are just a nostalgia for TAS". Complaining about TAS is such a cliche by this point.
No one wants TAS to be the end all be all.
Acting like Snyder's view should be respected just because it's different is idiotic

>>93582120
>Sympathetic villains are so cliche that it's even cliche for Johns.
>Literally over 90% of batman villains are not sympathetic
Yeah because what Batman comics need is another Jerk and crazy fuck, is not like he already got dozens of them.

>>93582188
No, they need good stories and another sympathetic backstory won't make a good story.

>>93582120
>Sympathetic villains are so cliche that it's even cliche for Johns.
We are talking about Batman here. How many genuinely sympathetic villains does Batman have ?
There's Man-Bat, most of the time. Some versions of Clayface. Two-Face and Penguin dip into it once in a blue moon. And that's it.

>>93576497
Fuck off Johns, captain cold will never be popular.


Seriously, I believe that Geoff is actually a good friend and a good lad, but everything he has told to Snyder is complet shit, the changes to freeze, the totally cool idea of the jokers, he even told Snyder that lark/Duke deserved another chance after Snyder was ready to forget him.

>>93582269
>Penguin
He's 99% of the time a power hungry asshole.

>>93582175
Batgirl year one, Gotham Central unresolved conflicts.

>>93582111
So that's how you interpret "open to different ideas."

Stop gobbling down on Dini's dick so hard. It's affecting your ability to read

>>93582269
Killer Croc.

>>93582331
Outside of that BTAS episode and it's comic adaptations, Mr Freeze too is just a big creep or a hired muscle. Origin stories don't do any favour outside of the origin story itself.

>>93582401
At least everything mr freeze was forced into his life and his main goal is help his wife, Penguin main goal is what?Be rich?Take over gotham underworld?

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>>93582331
That's why I said once in a blue moon.
Sometimes writers go into Oswald's backstory and deal with his tragic aspects. Sometimes Penguin does decent things like in Underground Railroad.
But even when they do, it's always made clear that everything bad that happens to him is mostly his fault and, pitiable as he may be, he is still a monster blinded by hatred and arrogance.
I explicitly said Penguin is not a sympathetic villain, he just dips into those waters every now and then.

>>93582401
Okay, I forgot Croc.
But most of the time Croc is just treated as a giant cannibal monster serving another villain/just lying around who would belong better in an X-Men comic.

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>>93582401
>Killer Croc.
Killer Croc's a funny one, because on one hand he got a real raw deal in life and gets fucked over whenever something good happens to him, but on the other hand he's still a cannibalistic monster

>>93582269
I'd say Clayface has legit gone long enough being a Non-Villain.

Is he a villain in the comics now though?

>>93578368

What did he do to Strange and Doom?

>>93583746
I can't remember anything he did to Strange apart from "awesome facial hair bros" but Doom in Infamous Iron Man might as well not even be the same character

>>93582186
Hat obsession aside, Simone's take on the Mad Hatter is very similar to the BTAS Mad Hatter. They're both lonely, awkward men who build themselves up through fantasy and lash out through controlling others in an attempt to fill the void in their lives.

At his core, the Mad Hatter should be what is essentially a rapist. Not the sadism of Dr. Psycho or the roofie equivalence of Purple Man, but rather the kind of rapist who'd apologize and ask his victim to stop crying.

It also wouldn't hurt if artists stopped drawing him like a hydrocephalic midget.

>>93583860
>At his core, the Mad Hatter should be what is essentially a rapist.
Aaand you lose me. No, Mad Hatter shouldn't be a rapist, or a pedophile.
I firmly believe none of the Batman rogues should ever rapists of any kind. It never adds anything to their character and DC writers have no idea how to handle sexual assault in a way that isn't pointless edgy and distasteful.
Being a rapist and a pedophile has never improved Mad Hatter as a character or villain. Instead all it did was just put a stigma on him that is one of the reasons he isn't used more.

>>93584536
I'm not saying make him a literal rapist, I'm saying that's the kind of mentality he should have.

>>93583860
>>93584536
Really Jervis should be about escapism and not dealing with how harsh reality can be. Hes a scientist, and without his fantasies he should be depressed given his view on how the mind works. Its all chemicals and synapses to him

>>93584626
I think something that could be added is that he's a very dull, literal-minded man, entirely self-aware of that fact, and hating himself for it. He wants to be whimsical, the quirky scientist, but just doesn't have the right mentality or temperament for it. It's why he is the Mad Hatter; he's trying to force himself into a more interesting person.

>>93582499
He was once raping a girl because muh Nora.

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>>93584626
>>93584712
I agree to this. One of the things that make his DCAU version interesting is that he tries as hard as possible to deny reality, not due to trauma but mental illness and delusion in a way that makes him whimsical but not demented, he's just a guy who likes his fantasies a little too much and just wants people to do the same. An example would be on both occasions when he trapped Batman in his dream machine. First time was because he wanted Batman out of his life but was willing to give him the perfect dream to live in, and second (in the comics) was a genuine atttempt to help who he thought was the saddest man he'd ever seen.

This also makes him thematically closer to Batman, since Batman is also, to an extent, a man living a fantasy and pretending to be something he isn't.
And is what Batman if not an escapist character ?

I feel upset because I really wanted to like Mad Hatter more than I do but he's consistently given nothing or treated like shit by writers and fans alike.
I feel like he has potential.

>>93576497
Snyder did everything wrong. Everything.

He took the one interesting aspect of Mr. Freeze's character and threw it away just for a dramatic shock. It would be like taking Daredevil and making him not blind anymore, or having both of Batman's parents still alive. It just ruins a really important facet of what makes the character who they are.

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>>93581468
You are a cool guy anon

>>93576497
What it does is takes a massive shit on one of the best villain motivations of all time.

Here's an idea, how about instead of trying to invent a reason for Mr. Freeze to be a reacquiring villain, you take the natural progression of his Dini backstory and eventually turn him in to a hero.

>>93581575
60's Batman show took Mr. Zero and made him into Mr. Freeze, a villain well-known enough to be used three times, even if they were with different actors each time.

That's how he got noticed by the B:TAS crew, who took him and gave him another villain's backstory.

>>93576497
This was a brave effort Anon, but no. The Freeze we liked was a good character who could appear in many stories as friend or foe, and Snyder's take was just another generic themed mass murderer of much more limited use in a rogue's gallery.

>>93582985
maybe he only became a cannibalistic monster BECAUSE everyone fucked with him so much

>>93576497
Then create a new character, one that isn't anchored by the old, better backstory.

Oh wait, I forgot this is capeshit. There's not a creative bone in anyone's body so you have to drudge out the old characters constantly.

>>93584965
Great post

>>93576497
>BTAS revitalizes the character by using his wife
>there are only two stories in TAS where he tries to cure his wife
>one of them has him just find out his wife is alive and he spends more time fighting Walt Disney than dealing with Nora's illness
>series goes into how he reacts once Nora is cured and what that means for him now that he's devoid of the chance to be with her
>Mr. Freeze's in everything else typically revolve around "I can't fix Nora reeeeeee"

>>93576497
But how does the new origin make him more viable? I admit I don't mind the idea of him being obsessed with a frozen woman he has never actually met, but to say that it offers more story opportunities would be wrong.

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>>93582499
>Penguin main goal is what?Be rich?Take over gotham underworld?
It varies, but it's mostly centered around status and power. Oswald Cobblepot is defined as a character who spends his life desperately trying to prove he is something he is not, so everything he does is more or less him overcompensating for a crappy childhood and trying to attain/keep power.
Plenty of Penguin stories usually revolve around him wanting to be a part of high society and attain political power, but in recent years there's been a greater focus on him as a gangster fighting for territory so there's that too.