Even if all Stan Lee was to Kirby and Ditko was a glorified editor,

>>93510003
Arguably, yes.

If Kirby had his own Stan Lee when working for DC, who knows how fleshed out the New Gods would have been.

Yes, Stan Lee is so awesome, I wanna suck his dick right now. *omnomnom*

based stan. cucked both of them

Yes, anon. Lee gets a lot of hate but there's a reason Kirby and Ditko's most famous work was at Marvel. Likewise, there's a reason none of Lee's other creations were anywhere near Spidey or FF or the X-Men.

Also, it's clear that Lee didn't have the inventive or pacing talents that Kirby/Ditko had, but Kirby/Ditko's dialogue pales in comparison to Lee's.

There are usually two sides to this argument
>Lee is the bad guy, Ditko/Kirby are martyrs
>Ditko/Kirby whine too much, Lee deserves most of the credit
I think both are wrong

>>93510003
Fuck Stan Lee. Regardless of his actual contributions (which there's no real way to know how much he did or did not contribute) he really treated Ditko and Kirby terribly for the duration of their careers. Business or whatever you wanna excuse it with, Kirby and Ditko built Marvel and to see them treated like a common freelancer because they signed work-for-hire agreements is frankly disgusting.

>>93510118
I'm with you, but I'd argue Kamandi is comparable in quality to anything Kirby did with Lee. Also Lee's dialogue improves over time. Early 60's FF/ASM for instance, is not really any better than Kirby's early 70's stuff in New Gods, imo.
None of this stuff was static like a photo, it was all fluid over time.
I think judging by Romita and such, Ditko needed Stan more than Stan needed him.
He was also a God of promotion.

>>93510118
I would argue that it was Lee who had the pacing credits, at least when it comes to Kirby. Kirby had Kalibak standing on a rooftop for half of the original New Gods run.

>>93510003
You're not wrong, but Stan still deserves scorn.

He's balls rich and has tons of sway. He could easily improve the pay rate and treatment of employees while still living it up as a multimillionaire, but chooses not to.

>>93510427
stan is a senile old fart and has had nothing to do with running the company for years now

>>93510427
Lee hasn't been part of Marvel's management since (probably) before you were born. Bendis has more power than him.

>>93510463
>>93510510
He gets paid millions in ransom money every year. There's never been anything stopping him from redistributing this to Marvel's freelancers, nor was there anything stopping him from sticking up for other creators who got stomped.

He shouldn't be expected to, but the man has had the ability to improve the state of Marvel for decades. To paint him as simply a good former editor when he enjoys an extremely lavish lifestyle and the people in similar positions to his have no chance at anything approaching adequate compensation is ludicrous.