Why does the "draw off-model" method work for Flapjack,

>>93451550
>but ended up being horrendous for Steven Universe?

it didn't

>>93451550
Flapjack was actually good.

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>>93451578

>>93451550
Who said it worked for Flapjack? Pendleton's drawings are the epitome of the oh so popular "Calarts" style folks throw around often.

Adventure Time and Flapjack have much more exaggerated character designs and expressions, so the audience is used to seeing them off-model. A more subdued show like Steven Universe had a harder time getting away with it.

Flapjack was a comedy and the boarders went in their own direction off the base model.

SU is an adventure serial and boarders base their art on previous interpretation, leading to design drift.

>>93451550
because K'Nuckles wasn't suddenly smaller than Flapjack

>>93451550
I like Flapjack.
I don't like Steven Universe.

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>>93451623
Is it possible that this is just the way of making the show more cutesy? A lot of shows/comics end up doing this subconsciously.

Because in Flapjack it's an intentional method in order to attain the goofy crazy style of humor it was going for. In Steven Universe, it's merely a case of incompetence and miscommunication. Regardless of how exaggerated Flapjack's expressions get, he doesn't end up shrinking over the course of seasons.

Flapjack is surreal and episodic (like Uncle Grandpa)

>>93451550
McHale > Osborne > Hirsch > Ward > Infantino

>>93451779
but SU isn't a comedy... A child literally died on screen, what's supposed to be fun or cutesy about that

>>93451779
Toriyama alternated by panel anyway, so it's not like it actually mattered there. Characters were exactly as big as they needed to be in Slump.

>>93451842
Osborne = Hirsch = Infantino >>>> McHale >>>> literal shit >>>> Ward

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>>93451550
Cause you don't like Steven Universe?

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>>93451845
Dunno, I'm just saying if the artists wanted to make a stylistic shift it wouldn't be unprecedented.

>>93451751
I think this is the case really

the models changed (not that drastically) but the proportions generally stayed the same.

>>93451908
that shit has been a thing since Mickey Mouse and Bugs Bunny

Also they didn't make a """"stylistic shift"""" Steven suddenly had to get a fucking chair to reach the ktichen table, that's the problem

>>93451908
All three of those were terrible design decisions.

>>93451975
I don't disagree.

>>93451550
Most of the off-model shots of Flapjack were stills with very little motion, any motion those scenes contained were also either very brief or looping. Flapjack's art also benefited from these drastic changes as it helped to highlight the very surreal and rough-around-the-edges feeling they wanted the characters and setting to exhibit. Steven Universe doesn't benefit from the same level of bombast Flapjack was notable for and is nowhere near as spastic. As an action show; Steven Universe would benefit heavily from a more realistic depiction of the characters moving in a more limited, on-model fashion. As a comedy; Steven Universe is much more slice-of-life and methodical in how they handle jokes, faced pacing and le funney face moments only serve to detract from the actual humor.

This doesn't take into account that when Steven Universe goes off-model; the storyboard artists completely give up. It isn't as basic as a more exaggerated expression or strange proportions; the shift in style is legitimately jarring at points given what is already very clearly established.

>TL;DR God damn son just draw the fucking characters like the characters instead of going for something the show very clearly isn't.

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>>93451908
Fuck, I miss old chopper

>>93451623

Remember when Connie was a skilled swordwoman ?

>>93451908
Hamtaro was cuter before

>>93452561
nope

>>93451623
I'm not into Indian girls at all but she used to be cute back then.

what the fuck is that on the right, I don't know.

>>93451956
>Steven suddenly had to get a fucking chair to reach the ktichen table, that's the problem
This the biggest problem. It'd matter less in an episodic show but in a fairly strong continuity and serialised story it's very distracting.
It's like the opposite of a seemingly inconsequential detail that's put in and gives you a more immersive sense if the world.

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>>93451908
Actually, This is the new Jybanyan for the new movie set 10 years in the future of the game/show

>>93451550
you can go slightly off model within reason

making the whole cast midgets is just blatant inconsistency

Is this size inconsistency issue consistent among all the storyboarders or is it just one dude?

>>93452853

All of them, with the producer's excuse being their artists "aren't robots" and don't want to adhere to a character sheet

>>93452925
>you're allowed to act like an entitled unprofessional cunt and wave off criticisms because of >muh artistics
This upsets me.

>>93452925
I can't even muster the will to post a disappointed anime girl. that's so fucking retarded I've become the disappointed anime girl.

>>93451908
>That Hamtaro
WHAT THE FUCK HAPPENED

>>93451623
Only a single board team did that, and with the recent board team shuffle the two are now separate

>>93453021
Hiroko stopped feeding him.

>>93452925
>>93452979
The guy who said "aren't robots" had long left the show when he said that and he wasn't talking about SU but rather talking about how even CGI and flash animation takes real people to make

>>93451550
They still kept their sizes consistent.

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>>93453176
Laura, and with Hai they changed the models so that they be easier to animate in CG.

This was also brought up here in the past.

>>93453021
They stopped dubbing his later seasons in the US because the episodes started getting "weirder" and "less realistic and down to earth". I think they went to Candy Land at one point?

As a result, he's contracted big head syndrome from spending too much time in Japan.

>>93453345
Sunshine Corporation looks the best because he has the most body in that one.

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>>93453398
Sunshine Corporation is also extreamly bland and lifeless.

When it came to studios things ranged from excellent but expensive (TMS) to cheaper for good reason (Tokyo Kids).

If you watch modern Simpsons and compared it to classic Simpsons you will understand.

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>>93453345
>Laura

>>93453213
>how even CGI and flash animation takes real people to make
They are using computers for their animation, therefore they have tools to keep characters on model AND likely have assets they can reference. There is no god damn mother fucking reason why any computer animated show should ever have such inconsistency between artists, and anyone who defends it with "b-but muh individuality" are fucking unprofessional hacks. Go post to fucking DeviantART if you want to be praised for your "creativity".

>>93453357
His head is the same size. His body just got smaller because he's not spending any time getting fat in America.

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>>93453532
Call her Hiroko again ans she will shove dynamite down your pants.

>>93451908
Chopper's power is that he's a literal shape shifter though.

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>>93453575
Crud, that was far better than my explanation/reasoning. Good job.

>>93453572
no he wasn't even TALKING about character model consistency at ALL

>ITT: SU fags unsuccessfully trying to defend their shitty "artstyle"

>>93451908
Pikachu is the only improvement.

>>93453962
This.

>>93453780
That's not even happening to retarded anti SU fag.

>>93453357
Another thing to take note is that when TMS tried to get ShoPro to dub season 3 into English ShoPro rejected to in favor of Megaman NT Warrior leaving TMS to do seasons 3 to 6 of Hamtaro themselves for the European market excluding English speaking markets.

>>93451550
Honestly, people are making way too big a deal about SU's off model.

Yeah, the proportions can get fucked up, but it's not every episode like /co/ or SU Critical makes it out to be; out of the 20+ episodes in Season 4, only 4 episodes were chibi; in every other episode the proportions are normal.

Even then, SU is making the effort in going through a restructure.

>>93453357
Another thing to take note is that when TMS tried to get ShoPro to dub season 3 into English ShoPro rejected to in favor of Megaman NT Warrior leaving TMS to do seasons 3 to 6 of Hamtaro themselves for the European market excluding English speaking markets.

>>93451550
SU Critical, where you at?

>>93454104
>>93454194
Double post, sorry.

>>93451908
anorexic hamtaro is a sin

>>93454171
>the proportions are only terrible 20% of the time

That's pretty bad anon

>>93451550
Because it never got to the point where it was off model.

>>93454599
Of we're looking at the show in it's entirety, it's less than 1%.

It really isn't a big deal and only two of those episodes were plot related.

>>93454599
Using the same screenshots over and over from the same handful of episodes is pretty bad.

>>93451610
SU was never good.
Fuck anyone who says this lie.

>>93453625
Hi Famicom. Can you post some Laura fan art, I really enjoy your style

>>93451550
Simple- Flapjack was a comedic show, Steven Universe was an action show with quasi-realistic proportions. It just so happened that the latter wound up being stuck with a shitty storyboarding team and character designs

>>93453513
It's true classic Simpsons had better animation than the later seasons, but that's only to a point.

The first season looks like ass compared to seasons 2-8 and anything after that showcases the eventual decline into stiffness that the HD seasons long suffered through.

Also reminds me of the Kirby anime and when you could tell what animation team handled an episode based on the 2D animation of Dedede and Escargoon (or other characters like Kawasaki if those two are CG the entire time).

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>>93455109
And the king of this.

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>>93455171
In SU, their process has potential but I just think they hire one too many amateurs for it to be executed well. Because I totally don't mind being able to tell the difference when Jeff, Joe, or Sugar draws something.

None of these Buster drawings bother me because they're all competently drawn. Except the last one.

>>93455336
>None of these Buster drawings bother me because they're all competently drawn. Except the last one.

Startoons and Kennedy Cartoons were also terrible.

>>93455336
>not listing Raven with Paul
>overlooking the fact that both boarders in a pair have different ways of drawing steven between each other

>>93455380
I find the Startoons one cute, honestly. And I remember the Kennedy ones in motion but those episodes always had a distinct movement to them and that never really bothered me either.

I think part of the problem is that SU's art changes from shot to shot. When something like Tiny Toons, Looney Tunes or Pokemon switches studios or art direction, it's across different episodes or seasons. Buster doesn't switch from Startoons to Kennedy within thirty seconds of each other.

>>93455171
TMS made total embarrassments out of the other studios that worked on Animaniacs, as well.

>>93455436
>I think part of the problem is that SU's art changes from shot to shot.

It's not that constant. It's more like scene to scene, which is less noticeable.

>>93455443
True.

>>93451550
Flapjack was more horrendous imho.

>>93455436
>Buster doesn't switch from Startoons to Kennedy within thirty seconds of each other.
Well, Kennedy did utilize different animators, which made it easier to tell whether it was Glen Kennedy animating or one of the other animators. Then you got Loony Beginning where parts of the episode were shipped to Wang (the episode's Ink & Paint/Camera contractor) and the switch is pretty obvious.

>>93455336
Joe & Jeff's are probably the best (or more accurately, competent) looking, though I don't mind Zuke & Hillary's that much. The other's bother me in ways I don't think I can describe, Paul's especially.

>>93455559
Jon McClenahan was also at Kennedy as well.

>>93455604
True. But he also did the three Encore episodes (or at least parts of them). And his style too sticks out fairly well.

>>93455706
He did 1 episode and thats only for retakes.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RX9QJHtB7M0

>>93455859
>That's my name, don't wear it out, hahahaha.
God, that original clip was really cute and lively looking.

>>93453962
The best Chopper was somewhere between those two.

>>93451550
Steven Universe is a pseudo realistic SoL-Drama
Flapjack is a cartoony comedy

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These are fun to look at. Anyone else have more stuff like this?

>>93458594
See >>93455171 & >>93453345

>>93453345
Everyone here is focusing on the hamster, but jesus that girls eyeballs change both in size and distance from each other in all the studios. That's a little creepy to look at.

>>93458943
But I want more!

>>93451857
>Characters were exactly as big as they needed to
That's almost word for word what the SU crew says though.

>>93451882
Sthu constanza, nobody invited you!

>>93452561
Denz is a talented swordsman.

>>93459181
I noticed that too, but I only really found the first one weird. They're too far apart.

You can't just "draw off model" and expect it to look good without some slight thought into it

>>93451550
>Why does the "draw off-model" method work for Flapjack
That's a big starting assumption.

Flapjack iirc didn't "work" at all. Couldn't sell toys and was too creepy for some kids. Kids generally don't care about how good the art is and the companies only care if it can sell toys and DVDs. Currently regardless of art and story Steven Universe is winning.

>>93455171
>Kennedy cartoons and their awful fucking dances that they'd reuse in other cartoons (Pup Named Scooby Doo)

Bane of my childhood.

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>>93458594
I know that when Arc-V was airing, everyone had a raging boner for when Ebina and Noh were animation directors and hate raging hatred for when the Koreans were animating.

>>93451550
Flapjack makes sure that when its time to have a "serious" moment, the animation actually looks good to make it more memorable.

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>>93452994

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>>93459181
In short, this.

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I miss fat Steven.

>>93462627
Paul Villeco still draws him fat

>>93462627
>fat and "tall"
i would take him more seriously

>>93462643
They still keep some the animation in the States for SU? I though they stopped doing that after season 2 to cut costs.

>>93462459
Wow, the autism from Hamtaro fandom is strong.

>>93462742
It's not autism, normies do this type of stuff with cartoons all the time.

http://cartoonresearch.com/index.php/speedy-gonzales-in-tabasco-road-1957/

>>93451908
>New Chopper
>PLUS HIS NEW HAT
It's the worst out of all of them.
Pikachu is alright, but he was slightly better with a little pudge, which I think they give to wild pikachu these days? Ash's/other traner's have a reason to be Fit.

>>93462742
just a typical day in /a/

>>93462854
/a/ never talks about Hamtaro, you must be thinking about Umaru-chan.

>>93462702
The show was never animated in the states
I'm talking about the storyboards

>>93462960
You might need to think twice about what you just said.

https://sakugabooru.com/post/show/16685

That scene was 100% animated in the States, all Korea did for that scene was coloring and shooting.

>>93463014
Actually (given how SU is hand drawn and inked, like most Korean animated shows) they redraw the animation while copying it almost exactly, given how the animation done by story boarders is done digitally

>>93463047
Sakugabooru said that that scene was animated in the States as Jeff Liu (the animator who did that scene) is part of the American staff.

And also only Rough Draft is the only one still using cels for inking, SMIP is 100% digital inking like Sugarcube & Mir.

>>93463133
If that's the case then why did Rebecca say that smip inks on paper https://www.instagram.com/p/BFnYULiKBo9/?taken-by=rebeccasugar&hl=en

>>93451842
>>93451872
McHale>Osborne>Ward>Hirsch<Infantino
It's interesting imagining Alex Hirsch and Pen Ward working on an episode together

>>93463192
>>93463133
Heck the video on the bottom of this post shows some animation that's inked on paper
http://joethejohnston.tumblr.com/post/147725066143/building-a-scene-its-over-isnt-it

>>93463192
Because SMIP is not Rough Draft as using a stock pen on paper =/= using a very special brush on a cel sheet.

Does Mir do what SMIP does?

>>93463226
SMIP =/= Rough Draft

>>93463227
>>93463236
SMIP (aka Sun Min) was the studio that animated mr greg

>>93463300
Thats what I said.

SMIP = inking the paper (the episode you brought up).
Rough Draft = hand inked cels.

>>93463325
I never mentioned inking on cells though
You were initially saying smip inked digitally

>>93463373
You were only bringing up SMIP and the last time anyone was talking about inking they only brought up Rough Draft (since the topic was about Star and The Forces Of Evil).

>>93463220
Literally all but one of Hirsch's episodes (his first one, which was with Infantino) was with Pen
For reference:
Pen was originally partnered with Mike Roth (JG's board partner on camp lazlo, supervising producer on most of regular show's run)
McHale was partnered with Infantino (director on most of regular show's run) for most of season 1, and by late season was partnered with Somvilay Xayaphone
Kent mostly boarded solo (though he did a few episodes with infantino, his old lazuli board partner)
Late in season 1 Infantino was partnered with Ghostshrimp
Brett Varon (boarder on Billy and Mandy, would become a boarder on chowder, SMFA, Clarence, and star vs, currently a director on star) mostly did his eps solo

>>93463429
No one was talking about star vs in this thread though?

>>93463450
True, I was just remembering about the last time someone talked about inking here.

>>93451550
Because scaling was more or less consistent, okay it wasn't perfect but they had a general idea who's bigger and who's shorter in relation to everything else

>>93463463
>>93463325
Honestly I think RDK also inks straight on paper (unless you have explicit proof otherwise)
I wouldn't be surprised it it turned out that digital eMation inked digitally (given their name)

>>93463532
CN staff brought up cels when talking about Rough Draft.

SMIP =/= Rough Draft

>>93463590
Ahe, well there's the explicit proof I was talking about then

>>93463625
Enough about this, were not getting anywhere with this, we got SMIP and Rough Draft will have to come later.

We were talking about off modelment.

All this off model talk and not 1 word about 50s (and on wards) Woody Woodpecker... Lets fix that.

https://drive.google.com/file/d/0BwzUTT0QRaV4SlFJbVA2bUdSSHc/view

>>93451550
SU's artstyle is innately unappealing.

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>>93451908
>comparing changes in design for decade long franchises to characters changing height every other scene
jesus christ SU fans have an excuse for everything
next you'll say
>akshully they are shape shifters so they intentionally change shape through out the episode
apparently connie part gem too, DEEPEEST LORE

>>93465102
True.

Because half of the storyboard artists in SU suck.

CN lost a lot of old talent and haven't got a lot of new talent to replace it.

>>93465292
No, they lost all of it as they...

A.Now work for Disney TV Animation.
B.Now work for Sony Pictures Animation (US).
C.Retired.
Or D.Abandoned the industry.