Please explain why Americans are so wasteful with their

>>93357954
Less slave labor.

>>93357954
Shitty le dot eyes simplistic art style

>>93357971
This.

America decided to spend more on animators who are objectively worse than people that came before them.

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>>93357954
Japan saves a lot of money on animated series by only having them about 20% animated.
Lots and lots of pans across painted scenery.
Lots and lots of static figures with their mouths flapping like the old Funimation Star Trek.

The Japs have mastered the art of Animation No Animation.

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>>93357971
this. Also most animators now follow the John K method of never delivering on time and bitching due to muh Ren and Stimpy influence

>>93358012
This. Like three frames just shuffled back and forward with some noise and sound effect. Lazy as fuck. At least Western shows are consistent.

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>>93357994
I find this to be truthful and infuriating.

>>93358012
The good ol' Hannah Barbera technique?

>>93357954
Animation in Japan pays like shit compared to america, for starters.

>>93358006
nice argument fagtron you sure convinced me with that hot strawman

>>93357954
Anime literally has less animation. Also, Japanese animators are treated like absolute shit. American animator are just treated mostly like shit.

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>>93358006

>>93358117
There is also this "trend" in certain Japanese businesses (video games, animation etc) where the workers usually die suddenly or just kill themselves.

>>93357954

> come to /co/
> find Gargantia

Wow. I thought I was the only one who liked that show.

>>93358052
Most CN shows do that too except with 15 frames.

>>93358108
>>93358142
What argument? That image just shows that /co/ is nothing but arguing about stupid bullshit instead of actual discussion.
Granted that's what it's always been, so it's kind of pointless, but you're reading way too much into it if you think it's anything more.

>>93358052
Looks better than our animation despite this, so they're doing something right.

Thanks for reminding me why I never watch anime that doesn't bubble up to mainstream western attention. Ugly same-style, same-faced 15 year olds pandering to obsessive porn nerds in front of mirky CGI backgrounds. And that's not even touching on the horrible plot-lines and character cliches.

I don't care how detailed and well-animated it is when what you're making is terrible. And I'm sure many people feel the same way about the mis-named "Cal Arts style" but at least only 30% of Western Animation looks like that instead of the 99% of Japanese Animation that looks like it was torn from the pages of a budget hentai artist (because that's probably who's animating it, since you can lock those zero-self-esteme losers in a building and they'll be grateful for it).

>>93358117
then how are koreans treated?

>>93358012

Sure, because as long as your frames are not total shit its okay if something like "people stand around and talk" isn't a super dynamic scene. Why waste budget and time on something that doesn't have to be done any better than you are currently doing it for it to work?

Lets you save money overall, and lets you splurge on making the handful of scenes that episode that do need to be animated well so they look as good as they should.

It may be cheap, but the end result is still impressive so why not?

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>>93358232
>Thanks for reminding me why I never watch anime that doesn't bubble up to mainstream western attention.
>/co/ of all places using the popularity = quality argument

>>93357954
Japanese created a strong demand for anime in Asia and worldwide, contributing to and escalating weeb culture, which seem to leak into other subcultures, I mean gays, trolls, video gamers and of course horny adolescents and psychopaths, if an adolescent doesn't mentally grow out of this.

>>93358052
i honestly prefer less animation over bad animation
give me beautiful shots with minimal movement over motion tweened garbage any day

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Japanese work ethic is much different than America. Japanese people will work themselves to death and their culture hardly turns the other cheek because it's so common. As a result you get a product as a much faster pace for cheaper. An american wouldn't last more than a day in those conditions. Look at how much shit Sausage Party got for underpaying their animators working overtime. That's a normal occurrence in Japan. Also >>93357994 has a point, the new generation simply isn't as good and awards simplicity as a result.

>>93357954
I do wish American storyboard artists learned shot composition or how to make interesting scenes. Even ignoring anime, how come it's only in live action the camera is fully used. You almost never see cartoons acknowledge the 3 grid rule or play with perspective to set a tone, even during the golden age of animation. every shot in the average cartoon is so sterile it hurts.

>>93358052
>paperdoll and walk cycle

>>93357954
>1st animators get paid allot less in Japan
>2nd allot less actual animation, and more still shots of artwork that looks good in screen-shots, but barely ever moves

>>93358012
>Funimation

That's Filmation.

>>93358311
>implying any grunt work is actually done in japan
watch the credits from an episode of literally any anime ever and count how many names are in korean

>>93358308
Because people have been playing with different rules when it comes to American animation? I don't know.

>>93358323
Yeah it's been a long night at work. Thanks for the correction.

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>>93358292
>Japanese work ethic is much different than America. Japanese people will work themselves to death and their culture hardly turns the other cheek because it's so common.

This.

Check out how this sinkhole gets fixed in two days then imagine how long it'll take in America or your country.

http://www.express.co.uk/news/world/732617/Japan-fixes-sinkhole-TWO-DAYS-Brits-joke-road-repairs

>>93357954
>Less slave labor.
You do realize most of that shit is animated in korean slaveshops, right?

>>93357954
Holy shit the pics on the right look downright horrible

>>93358292
Also add that a lot of Japanese studios (Not all) pay by the frame. That means the more animation = the more you get paid.

And some artists willingly work in it because they find it much more challenging and therefore rewarding than American studios.

http://www.cartoonbrew.com/artist-rights/japans-animation-industry-isnt-just-tough-its-illegally-harsh-110074.html

>“When I was working as an animator in New York I could afford an apartment, buy stuff, and had time to ‘live a life.’ But the artist inside of me was screaming at the fact I wasn’t making really high-quality feature films and series. Now everything about my life is utterly horrible, however the artist in me is completely satisfied.”

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>>93358311
>but barely ever moves

Murrica pls.

>>93358399
Not unlike noodle arm animation, amirite?

>>93357954
>posts about "animation"
>nothing in the examples are actually animated

Art style, nigga. You're bitching about art style.

>>93358387
japan pays less for their korean slaveshops than the US?

>>93358012
At least they decided to make those shots look good. Compared to the HB technique where cheap animation was noticeably cheap, at least cheap anime still has very impressive illustrations. In that regard, I think they utilize their limitations amazingly.

And considering shows like SU still have crappy animation and that's after simplifying designs to be easier to draw and animate, we apparently fucking suck at it. Fucking Powerpuff Girls were made USING the HB method and somehow the reboot ends up looking like trash, both animation, layouts, designs, color, everything.

>>93358385
Holy crap.

>>93357954
They actually animate shit and pay their employees.

>>93358308
Most cartoons are sitcoms and follow sitcom camera rules. Even if it's not the "family sitcom" setup, stuff like Regular Show or We Bare Bears are still arguably sitcoms.

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>>93358443

>>93358385
Wish I had that gif of subway workers in Asia replacing an entire railway before the morning commute even commenced.

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Who cares? Both of these are animated in Korea anyway.

>>93358472
This is very true with American television, period. It's very rare we get to see something cinematically unique.

>>93357954
>Generic anime bullshit
/a/ please leave

>>93357954
Damn, this stuff could be actually good if wasn't in trash-anime style. Make it look more realisitc, without retarded big eyes etc and people would actually watch it.

>>93358443
see >>93358422

>>93358443
Dude, I thought I was the only one who noticed people would say something had bad animation, but what they're really posting/complaining about is "art style"

>>93358500
This.

>>93358515
>Make it look more realisitc, without retarded big eyes etc and people would actually watch it.

That's an obvious lie or else Titan A.E. would've made more money than it did.

>>93358539
>Don Bluth
>making money

HUE

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>>93357954
Hmmmmm

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>>93358385
SAMURAI JAPAN STRONGK!

YAMATO DAMASHI! OXYGEN IN YOUR MUSCLES! BANZAI!

>>93358519
>>93358485
How much of that is animated by Koreans?

>>93358461
>They actually animate shit

Lol

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>>93358556
Hmmmmm

>>93358422
30 seconds of fluid animation per episode. great

>>93358515
>Disney

>>93357954
>>93357954
less fps

>>93358567
Probably zero since the Japanese animators do the keyframes for the most complicated animation.

Korea does the grunt work.

>>93357971
Free market

>>93358422
now show me an entire episode that moves like that.

>>93358232
>And that's not even touching on the horrible plot-lines and character cliches.
Yeah, I mean the Western animation is filled with genius plots and cliches are nonexistant in there.

>>93357954
because japs are borderline slaves and now their animation industry is dying

>>93358502
I think American dramas/thrillers have picked up considerably in the last ten years or so. Breaking Bad, Madmen, Homeland, Stranger Things, Orange is the New Black, Game of Thrones. Plus non-American shows like Black Mirror, House of Cards, Sherlock (Those are produced by a British film company, right?).

I mean, people have made the claim we're in the second Golden Age of Television and a lot of famous actors have leaned towards wanting to make a TV show because they're apparently allowed to be more creatively free than the film industry right now which is stuck in the reboot, sequel, and cinematic universe shitter. Even comedies have tried to stray away from being basic sitcoms like Master of None, Louie, Veep.

Back in the day, a single show straying away from the norm would end up being Seinfeld or Sopranos level of shocking the audience and becoming hits. Now it seems like we get live-action hits every couple of months.

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>it's another anime doesn't have 60 FPS debate

Neat.

>>93358539
Problem wasn't with artstyle. Just generic and bland plot and characters.
>>93358586
Disney's projects are for kids, so boring, simple themes, non-violent etc. Not like some Pixars projects, or their old ones maybe.

>>93358278
when is it not true with anome though?

>>93358580
The japs no longer animate like they did in the 90's, but >>93358556 came out recently and they're starting to go overboard with the CG shit in every anime.

>>93358609
You probably can't show me an entire episode of Adventure Time with moves like that either.

>>93358638
Oh I'm not denying that we're in a glorious age for television, but it's taken a long time to get there, and it'll take much, much longer for animation to even have the opportunity to catch up.

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>>93358646
Why do edgelords like (you) come on /co/ of all places?

You're confusing art style with animation. Animation is how well it looks in motion.

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>>93358664
tfw he probably can

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>>93357954
>>93358226
>>93358291
As someone who isn't invested in Western cartoons, I think Western cartoons look better. I can't stand looking at flapping mouths with voiceovers for 90% of a show.

I dislike the AT art style but there's much more actual animation in there than in the average anime, they're better storyboarded, there's more and better camera work, they have varied shots instead of the same formulas traced and repeated over and over and over.

Second, if you look at anime budgets the vast majority of it goes to the VA idols while Western budgets are probably all over the spectrum of figures involved. In the end all the load of animation is done by Korean slaves so budget is a really stupid factor to look at.

>>93358672
>edgelord
I'm not defending the other guy, he's a fucking idiot after all, but at least know when to use the right insults.

>>93358672
What makes you think i'm an edgelord, kiddo? Watch some masterpieces like The Iron Giant with adult themes and style.

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>>93358556

>>93357954
>Please explain why Americans are so wasteful with their animation budget.

Let's see

>Gotta pay the voice actors Hollywood celebrity-tier salaries for two hours of work a week
>Gotta pay everyone on staff health, dental, vision, life insurance, sick leave, vacation leave, maternity leave, competitive pay, bonuses, etc.
>Producers gotta take their cut of the profits and there's a lot of them

By the time you're done paying for all of THAT you're lucky if there's any money left to make the fucking cartoon.

>>93358682
Motion is irrelevant to animation.
I want it to look good, not move good.

>>93358696
Go ahead.

>>93358719
t. weeb

>>93358706
How unionized is Japan compared to the US, specifically California? That could play an enormous role in the budget..

>>93358638
that might apply for live action but certainly not for animation. If anything we're hitting a ghetto if storyboarders don't get their shit together and learn actual composition. Samurai Jack is the closest western animation has gotten

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>>93358719
>Motion is irrelevant to animation.

>>93358665
I don't think we're going to have an animation revolution even in the next decade. The monopoly on networks has gotten crazy bad with it being exclusively the big three now.

Though streaming seems to hurt some networks, studios like DisneyTV have figured out how to capitalize on it to the point where Star Vs did so well in streaming numbers, they greenlit it for four seasons before the second had even premiered. Netflix doesn't seem to pose as much of a competition to them as they hope outside of the fact that they just make people watch TV less. I mean, the Castlevania looks like the first animated project that people will actually give a shit about, but it still has to disguise itself as an anime to do so.

>>93358699
Do you seriously think that anyone who uses 'non-violent' as a criticism when talking about Disney stuff is not an edgelord?
>>93358704
Iron Giant's themes are just as simple as your common Disney movie ones are. Granted, the setting is a bit different, that's probably why you're willing to jerk off to it. I don't even get why 'simple' themes are a bad thing, a lot of adult themes can be simple.

>>93358736
>something moves
>they have spaghetti arms and looks like shit

It's not the only part of animation.

>>93358422
>I watch cartoons with my dick
I amost forgot we're on a Filipino manifesto hoarding board

>>93358719
It's either sad that I've heard this statement more than once here or it's just a meme that doesn't get around too often.

>>93358580
That was close you almost summoned Boco

>>93358580
Top
>Done by an artist who knows that real women can look ugly as fuck and in fact most older women do

Bottom
>Done by a repressed horndog who feels the need to sexualize everything in order to get off

Hmmmm....

>>93358580
>american cosplayer vs. japanese cosplayer

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>>93358232
>pandering to obsessive porn nerds

>>93358704
>What makes you think i'm an edgelord, kiddo?
I like you, Anon, you're good.

>>93358653
Kaiji

>>93357954
Wow, I didn't think people still thought about Gargantia besides me. That's kinda nice.

Well, I guess it is one of the few anime still on Netflix, so that must have helped its popularity.

More in between frames

>>93357954
And that's yen too, the pocket change budget is used to treat the director on a soda and half a Hot Pocket.

>>93358746
Disney films are mostly about princesses, animals and all that boring garbage. How should I find interesting stories about them?

>>93358759
>Morrigan
>looks like an older woman instead of an appealing succubus

Aaaand this is why we have less fapkino in American cartoons.

>>93358748
The illusion of motion is literally the only part of animation.

>>93358698
>they're better storyboarded, there's more and better camera work

This is flat out wrong

>>93358792
No one will watch unironically it if it's in motion yet unappealing.

Look at Food Fight.

>>93358385
>two days
>Over the next five days workers made sure the bedrock was sound, then laid the tarmac before finishing off the job with the vital white lines.

>>93358792
>Muh motion!
Fuck this stupid meme

>>93358730
>How unionized is Japan compared to the US, specifically California?

Pretty much not at all, at least in the arts industries.

The majority of animators are freelance and get paid by the frame (10 yen per drawing is the going rate). Gainax was considered revolutionary because they hired their animators as staff and paid them salary with benefits, which was unheard of.

The manga industry is likewise non-unionized, with nearly all the artwork being done by uncredited "assistants" while the creator who only writes plot summaries gets exclusive credit for the script, art, inking, lettering and so on.

Basically, Japan is the full-on opposite extreme of how we handle things in the US. Overcompensation vs. Slave Labor.

>>93358783
>fapkino

You are why I hope the Muslims win.

>>93358655
>>93358705
Getting tired of people using the human attrocity of the 3D Berserk anime to assume everything 3D they have ever made looks like that
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qSZ5H79kMXI
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PBFKj6_p-Q0

>>93358815
Are you implying that Muslims aren't as horny as the Japanese if not more?

>>93358811
>expertly lays in a temporary road so traffic won't be delayed before putting in a more permanent solution

It's like the jacket before the crown. Japanese workers are like dentists.

Western cartoons are made purely for the entertainment of children.

Anime and French cartoons are made as works of art.

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>>93358820
>l-look I've got not just ONE example, t-there's TWO!

>>93358807
>>93358813
Cool opinions bros but you should read the definition of animation sometime, that's all I'm saying. But hey, you can always label facts as memes and call it a day, right?

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>>93358783
America has its moments.

>>93358759
>succubus
>ugly

?

>>93357954
>Jew tax
>Unions
>Art departments are full of talentless jackasses
>???

>>93358385
If it's my country the sinkhole becomes a permanent part of the surroundings.

>>93358782
Because the point of the story is its' core theme, not its' setting. You can tell a story revolving around a certain theme in many settings. To assume that the setting always defines the theme (i.e., if it's about princesses or animals it can't have 'mature' themes) is to be a casual who doesn't actually realize what a story is. A horse show episode managed to tell a story about a mere evil minion realizing he could be more than just cannon fodder and changing his life drastically, then a big Star Wars movie managed to tell a story with this exact core theme. These a two completely different settings. If a theme was defined by a setting, would it be possible to tell stories with one theme in different settings? No, it wouldn't. So that's why it's possible to find them interesting.

>>93358193
>Gargantia
Ah thanks, man.
Brown haired girl looks cute, I might check it out.

>>93358864
This is top tier bait material, holy shit. I don't know who isn't supposed to be trolled by this.

Is there any anime with actually emotional and strong scenes? Without "UGH", *GASP*, screams, whispers with shadowed eyes and other annoying shit going on?

>>93358706
>>Gotta pay the voice actors Hollywood celebrity-tier salaries for two hours of work a week

I think this upsets me more than anything else.

American VAs charge so much and do so little in the production of the cartoon, yet they place so much inflated value onto their contributions and demand the lion's share of the profits.

The voice actor should never get paid more than the person who actually has to draw the fucking thing. And yet VAs keep going on strike and picketing for shorter hours, higher wages and numerous additional benefits while the actual artists and animators who make the shows their livelihoods depend on are lucky to make a living wage.

Fuck voice actors.

>>93358854
Animation is about looking pleasing to the audience. Motion has never improved a cartoon or anime. It's not memes when its the truth

>>93358900
Nah, too obvious and lazy.

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>>93357954
If only we could go back to those Tex Avery days

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>>93358835
What in the flying fuck are you talking about? There was no temporary road, the entire thing took a week.

>>93358905
The anime ending to death note

>>93358894
Name ONE interesting pricness story.

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>>93358783
>>93358873
Succubus being attractive isn't mandatory. It's just suppose to be a (usually demon) woman who can seduce men, sometimes through hypnosis, magic, trickery, OR through physical appearance.

Eve is considered a succubus because she lured Adam into temptation for example. She didn't have to be super model-levels of sexy to do it, she just had to be a woman who led a man astray and only succeed because she was a woman. Adam might not have taken the apple if Joe had tried to convince him to.

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>>93358913
See pic related, it's the same in Japan.

>>93358922
>Animation is about looking pleasing to the audience.
Is this bait? Animation literally means "to give life", it's the illusion of life.

>>93358556
KLANG!

>>93358948
Eve probably wasn't ugly though

>>93358939
But this whole anime if filled with shit I mentioned.

>>93358942
Formulate you request better. "Interesting" is a subjective criterion, so whatever I call interesting, you may brush off as boring and vice versa.

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>>93358905
How do we know what's annoying and what's not annoying to you anon? You know, there isn't like, a set list of things that are universally annoying.

>>93358706
>>93358913
>>93358968

>Paid the most: The VA who stands in a booth for an hour every couple of weeks
>Paid the least: The animator who actually has to draw the cartoon

Yeah, that sounds about right. As we all know, drawing is the least important aspect of the animation process. We're all really in it for the voice recordings.

>>93358922
No that's animation philosophy, not animation itself.
>Capitalism is about pleasing the customer. Profits have never improved a business or corporation.
See? Facts aren't memes just because you don't like them.

>>93358905
Tokyo Godfathers

>>93358012
Noh animation

>>93358973
At most, she's painted as homely by most renaissance artists. I'd post one but I have no idea how mods around here react to old paintings with tits on them and I'm not going to risk a ban over that shit.

>>93359019
>We're all really in it for the voice recordings.
Otakus sure are. Most VAs are idols.

>>93359011
Not that Anon but if you have watched anything that isn't anime at least once, you know what he's talking about.

>>93358851
It depends what are we talking, pure 3D CGI or 3D emulating the 2D feeling or a mix of both?
3D CGI:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Fs5g-l0Bcss
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FmUR6f39dg4
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4rFNNBfIdfs
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Nf8B0mTwBo0
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FmNzYOK2Qgk

3D Anime:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8JsK-Onc7lw
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=htgcz87-Wqk
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=SwrhJhR3PwQ

I can post more but Im just getting tired and Im 200% I will only get a "lol fuk anime weeb" or some similar shit so no reason to keep bothering

>>93358364
If you don't know, don't say anything.

>>93358783
Aaaand you're why so many girl characters are unimaginative and most character designers fall back on making them "sexy girls" regardless if they're robots, orcs, intelligent AI holograms, animals who transformed into girls, etc.

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still waiting on that one cartoon to save western animation and cause a renaissance

haven't found it yet and probably never will, cartoons are beyond saving.

>>93358385
I always get a laugh out of the news article about how one guy got his municipal to fix potholes by drawing dicks on or around the holes. Priorities are fucking all over the place in America.

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>>93358645
how the hell can they afford to have such nice fights so often in OPM?
disk wars only had one every like 15 episodes

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>>93357954
How much does it cost to animate Venture Bros?

>>93358851
Isn't that the exact thought process prime use by showing only the shit 3d Berserk?

>>93359093
It's the cheapest traditional animated show on TV, but that's also why it takes roughly 4 - 5 years to make 10 episodes. The show is essentially done by a skeleton crew with the two creators doing 50% of the work across the whole board.

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>>93359071
I got you

>>93359093
probably not a lot. It's Adult Swim after all

>>93359054
Yeah, these videogame cutscenes from 2005 and toon-shaded CGI with a crapton of bloom don't look very good.

>>93359080
Because budget =\= animation quality

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>>93359103
I liked the animation in King of the Hill, I tell you 'Hwhat

>>93359115
Western animation's funeral won't be open casket, it seems.

>>93359080
>afford to have such nice fights so often in OPM?
IIRC it doesn't have a bigger budget than regular animu. It's just the animators motivation to just make it better.

>https://twitter.com/kubo_chika/status/658611075936464896

>>93359098
>showing only the shit 3d Berserk?
They pick on Berserk a lot because it's exceptionally bad even by anime standards

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>>93359080
Not posting Dettopuru fights

>>93357971
Thread should have ended here.

>>93359071
That's because you're jaded and letting websites like 4chan to decide for you whether or not you should like a thing. There are a lot of great Western cartoons, but people hate then because of the politics behind the show or because of some asinine reason that has nothing to do with the show itself.

>>93359054
I hate to break it too you, but most of those examples look like shit. Either they're films that can't begin to stack up towards western productions or they're shows that look worse than game cinematics.

Expelled from Paradise is the only thing there that stands out, it's just a shame it's so damn mediocre as a whole.

>>93359146
>assuming your hardcore feral /co/ users arent highly disingenuous people that assume literally every 3D animation from Japan is literally that level of fugly

>>93358983
Well, there is tons of examples of an interesting stories. Monsters, Inc, The Fox and the Hound, The Iron Giant, Shrek, The Lion King, How to Train Your Dragon, Toy Story, Robin Hood etc. Name one princess story as interesing as this ones.

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>>93358905

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>>93359154
he didnt really fight much

>>93358232
This is just pathetic

>>93359175
did you saw the other post with the Etotama fights scenes?
Here if you too lazy
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qSZ5H79kMXI
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PBFKj6_p-Q0

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>>93359065
t. landwhale

>>93358968
>being paid 9400$ a year to animate shoestring budget hentai OVAs and fapbait anime more than 12 hours a day (no factoring overtime), 6 times a week
Wew

>>93359160
Name 5

>>93359080
It's not the budget, the animators themselves were enthusiastic about the project while still being paid the same thing.

>>93358751
>nuh uh it doesn't count because my mommy says it's naughty :c

Go kill yourself manchild

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>It's another Cartoons vs Anime debate

Why not just watch a good middle-ground between the two, along with French cartoons?

>>93359187
Now are we counting Disney movie adaptations or the actual original tale itself? Because that could make or break whether I say things like The Snow Queen but don't mean to say Frozen.

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>>93359204
>did you saw the other post with the Etotama fights scenes?

>B-BUT LOOK AT THOSE FIGHT SCENES

>>93359071
AT, RS, Futurama, Archer, Metalapocolypse, GF, Rick and Morty, Over the Garden Wall, SP, Young Justice. There are more and I only mentioned modern ones. There were literally masterpieces like BTAS and JL. But desu, there are not much good shows right now. Most of them ended not so long ago. Only AT and Archer are alive I guess.

>>93359146
>They pick on Berserk a lot because it's exceptionally bad even by anime standards
And yet they still tuned in for Season 2. Really activated my almonds.

>>93359222

Most Japanese live in a 3-generation family unit and not independently per generation, as Americans do.

So they don't have the same sort of overhead needed in order to survive. That said, it also means most Japanese animators are just NEETs and they contribute little to the household on a financial level.

>>93359215
>There's only two types of women, drop dead sexy that I will never get or landwhale which makes me feel like I'm looking into a mirror!

Thank God you're not an artist.

>>93359204
Yes, I saw that too. Still confused about the "cut scenes" (the fuck is it exactly?) but it looks like it would be right in place with any game cutscenes, albeit with a gimped framerate.

Arpeggio was fine, but I remember thinking it should have just been animated traditionally the whole time I was watching it (the series I mean, not the opening).

>>93358895

Come for the cute girls, stay for brotastic robot-dad.

if i want to get into berserk but dont like reading is the anime an acceptable substitute?

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>>93359291
t. steven universe fan

>>93358948
>>93358759
You are reaching so fucking hard right now you could probably insult a Japanese artist yourself using sign language.

>>93359285
Most of these are just okay. They're not complete shit, nor are they masterpieces.

>>93359290
Even if I lived at home the majority of my life, close to $10,000 a year as an adult means you can barely make any big purchases in life.

I mean fuck, I've spent a couple thousand just rebuilding a computer in a day.

>>93359195

That movie is so fucking good

>>93359321
So got nothing left to say, basically?

>>93359291
>>93359321
t. Roastie

>>93359195
FINDS A WAY

>>93359033
>google immediately shows women with oversized mouth
>>93359195
>big eyes
>empty faces with lines instead of nose and mouth

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>>93359244
I see that this is a... touchy matter to you Anon

>>93359322
Sorry you don't know the basis of succubus myth and think they're only sexy women because a Jap drew one as so. You probably think all mermaids are part-human too, huh?

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>>93359195

>>93358422
>>93358485

Source?

>>93359332

When you're working 12 hours a day, 6 days a week, you don't have time to make any frivolous purchases or enjoy the luxuries you've purchased, anyway.

>>93359323
I'm srtuggle to find even okay ones in eastern animation so.

Will /co/ ever stop falling for this shit bait?

>>93359290
>NEETs
>working
That's an oxymoron. Actual NEETs are parasitic hikis in Japan. The animators are just otaku.

>>93359195
Stop posting that because it's already a thing.

https://www.fictionpress.com/s/3206139

>>93359371
Suisei no Gargantia

>>93359279
It doesn't matter. And The Snow Queen is not a Disney anyway.

>>93359298
The are "cut scenes" since the show still animated in 2D most of the time with the exception of those parts.
And I understand about what you mean about Arpeggio, its true what you said is just thatthat is cheaper for them to go with the 3D routeso we gotta be aware of that since anime are pretty much a glorified Ad commercial for their other products of that IP after all

>>93359371

second this

>>93359310
No, none of the animated attempts do the series justice.

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>>93359339
t. muh real women

>>93359397
I feel weirdly proud that I actually knew this

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>>93359357
You're the one getting triggered when anybody tries to get touchy with you.

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>>93358783
You haven't watched an American commercial, have you?

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>>93359195

>>93359371
Keit-ai.

>>93359417
>muh fapbait

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>>93359454
>hating fapbait
>blaming fapbait for muh real wominz

>>93359356
So what are you asking for? Animation where the characters aren't using animation practices?

>>93359417
>>93359454
can we agree you cunts will never have neither?

>>93359332
>>93359375
>>93359384

Luxury items in Japan are still prohibitively expensive. A single disc blu ray with 3 episodes of an anime on it still costs equivalent $80.00. A plain ole DVD disc still goes for equivalent $40.00 in Japan.

Most Japanese animators are live at home otakus/autists who use the entirety of their meager $9k a year pay and spend it on anime box sets and girly figurines, not actually paying for their necessities (their parents still do that while hiding their shame from the gossipy neighbors).

As bad as some American animators are, at least most of them are functioning, non-spectrum people who just want to have families, own a house and live a modest life.

>>93359367
This succubus has been drawn sexy since her conception as a design.
Darkstalkers has made her a cannon bombshell. An American artist drawing her ugly like a 30 year old crack whore makes no sense. And it isn't just that, the colours are all flat and the line thickness doesn't change.

But the worst of it all is that you took a cherry picked argument used as bait and fell for it. as if it represented all of American artists and you went with it, feeling the need to go the distance with over the top mental gymnastics to say that America is number 1? You couldn't even do that.

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>>93359479
He obviously wants rotoscope kino.

Remi Der that anime will become even more cheaper after the 3CG revolution

>>93359477
Fapbait makes for unoriginal designs and boring token girl characters.

But hey, if you want to regurgitate the same bland shit over and over again. I'd prefer a girl character who has the same personality as someone like Squidward or Scrooge rather than boring love interests or "their only flaw is that they're too perfect!".

>>93359508
Which costed way more that your average anime since it was first film the entire thing then proceed to rotoscope the entire damn thing just to bomb so horrible wrong .... and with a good reason

>>93357954

Americans are inherently lazy and stupid. Just look at who they elected to be president.

>>93359505
Except I never said anything about that character specifically, I only pointed out to people who tried to equate that she should be sexy BECAUSE she was a succubus, not that she should be sexy because that is her own defining character trait.

>>93358948
>>93359048

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>>93359538
>Fapbait makes for unoriginal designs
>All cartoons are fapbait, it's the PATRIARCHY'S fault they're catering to boners
>How dare you make women look sexy
>White men aren't your audience anymore. White men are over.
>DRUMPF!

>>93359571
>I-if I sound like I'm insulting Tumblr, my /co/mrades will come to my aid, right fellow 4channers?

Summerfag get out. Most people here agree girl characters in cartoons are fucking shit compared to their male counterparts.

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>>93359568
>she should be sexy BECAUSE she was a succubus
>she should be sexy because that is her own defining character trait

>>93359559
>IT WAS HER TURN

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>>93359587
>Most people here agree girl characters in cartoons are fucking shit compared to their male counterparts.

t. unsolicited opinions on israel

Is there any quality animation anymore?

>>93359568
Which is fucking irrelevant. You're not in the right for bringing up folk lore. This is about the fucking topic of animation and art style.

The American that drew karragen was a shit stain artist and the Japanese lad was a champion. The reason "why" he drew her ugly isn't to make a statement, he probably just never even saw her character design before and never bothered to hear a proper explenation.

You can go all day about Judaic mythos and how this picture is fighting sexism as if that ever escaped your grand delusion that America needs to be #1 at everything. The point is, you got baited by an image.

>>93357954
Americans demand more money than chinks in a sweatshop

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>>93359367
I gotta admit, that made me chuckle.
That was a good burn.

>>93357954
>post static screenshots to discuss animation budgets

Gargantia had a single well-animated episode (the very first one) and the scene with the dancing lolis and that's about it.

Incidentally, that's also the two things anyone should watch on series. What a waste.

>>93358900
>top tier bait
It's as subtle as a rock to the fucking head, just like most of these charts that get way too many replies whenever they're posted. Assuming your post isn't the real bait here, in what way is this any good at all?

>>93359411
Huh, so that explains the low frames then. Gotta keep the change from 2D to 3D from being too jarring. Thanks anon.

>>93359433
I remember hearing that a some older and more experienced western animators from decades past now have to make a living doing these types of commercials. Sad shit, but that's the industry for you.

>>93359587
>calls others summerfags
>unironically forgets the number of waifufags here year-round that would readily disagree with him

>>93359601
Yes.

Was there something there you failed to understand? It'd be the same as if someone said
>Mermaid
>Not being sexy

As opposed to
>Succubus
>Not being sexy

Not all dragons breathe fire and not all succubus are sexy models. It just happens to be a common way of interpreting them.

>>93359628
>Conversations can't go on tangents because I said so!
Oh fuck off. By your own logic, this thread should be fucking pruned because it's /a/ related.

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>>93359648
>post static screenshots to discuss animation budgets

Okay then.

>>93359671
People here hate waifufags, too. They often say go back to /trash/ or /aco/.

>>93359694
Isn't the top one a film?

>>93359694
I was mostly shitting on Gargantia, carry on shitting on AT, god knows they deserve it.

>93359689
You've strayed so far from the original debate that's it's painfully obvious you're just trying to get (you)s.

>>93359697
People here ARE waifufags, and only a few people bother to mention either /aco/ OR /trash/.

>>93359694
Why doesn't she have a pussy?

The argument isn't about whether an artist is better. It's just for racist and sexist Americans to claim they are better than everyone else, even if a country has objectively better artists and plotlines.

>>93359694
Too bad japanese stories and voice acting is pure trash. Also TOO ANIME shit like big bright eyes etc doesn't help much.

>>93359718
>Thinking that still doesn't count as a (You)
Just because you got anger steam shooting out your dick because someone went on a tangent in a thread with 200+ replies doesn't mean shit.

>>93359741
>Too bad japanese stories and voice acting is pure trash.

You can't say this when Clarence and Steven Universe and Billy's Subterranean Adventure exist

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>>93359741
>Too bad japanese stories and voice acting is pure trash.

>>93359741
Woah, how did those goal posts get over there?

>>93359738
That's not really true at all. Sounds like you only browse those types of threads on /co/ to begin with.

That's like saying the Raven threads are super popular because they reach the bump limit when it's only ever 20 people at most posting in the whole thread to begin with.

Samurai Jack, Venture Bros, Gravity Falls, and Rick & Morty talkback threads end up having crazy levels of activity when there are new episodes, and it's not because people like the one or two girl characters in it.

>>93359769
Clarence would've been way better if Jeff and Clarence were swapped and it was a slice-of-life comedy about a kid who strives to be a perfectionist.

Jeff's actor is fucking great. But I might be biased because I really like The Goldbergs.

http://www.animenewsnetwork.com/feature/2017-04-14/how-online-animators-are-revolutionizing-anime/.114680

>>93359708
Yes, but I betcha it didn't cost $300,000 to animate the whole thing.

>>93359080
>how the hell can they afford to have such nice fights so often in OPM?
You sacrifice good art design

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>>93359741
Now this shit is just sad ....

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>>93359671
>I remember hearing that a some older and more experienced western animators from decades past now have to make a living doing these types of commercials

On the bright side, some of them are doing their best work there.

>>93359804
Well no, it's already been established a bunch of times the way Japanese studios operate, the way Japanese people live, certain artist mentalities, and the fact that Jap artists are actually skilled compared to how Americans learn to draw basically prevent stuff like that from happening.

I mean, I'm not against shoving artists into basically slave labor, but they have to actually be good first. Otherwise we'd just get things like fucking Kappa Mikey.

>>93359054
>Polygon Pictures
>Change Artstyle from anime to western
>Automatically superior animation

Why?

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Fvopye_zeok

>>93358556
don't you even fucking try to use that piece of shit as a counter argument. It is literally made by basement dwellers with no budget you tard

>>93357954
Also Gargantia is fucking garbage.

>>93359769
I'm not saying that western animation is all good. I'm saying that japanese is all shit.
>>93359824
>having taste is sad
Okay then

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>>93359694
>Modern Japanese Animation
>a government funded short

>>93359867
>I'm saying that japanese is all shit.

And that's clearly inccorect.

>>93359781
I'll bet you that there are more waifufags on this board than there are people who would agree that "girl characters in cartoons are fucking shit compared to their male counterparts."

... You aren't some faggot that was asspained over Ashi, were you?

>>93358820
no. no matter how "good" it looks, CGI should never be used in animation. It will always look off-putting and ugly. In fact, I have such a bias towards it, I'm not even going to watch the examples you put out

>>93359115
If it had a consistent schedule and quality sure

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>>93359872
>a government funded short looks better than a commercially successful cartoon at the quarter of the budget

>>93359877
Name few ones which is not.

Sure are a lot of Dobsons in here

>>93359602

are you winning, yet?

>>93359938
>Most Studio Ghibli works
>FLCL
>EoE
>A good number of Production IG works
>Satoshi Kon's work

For a few

>>93359587
>my /co/mrades will come to my aid
Sadly (for you), this is true. No one will assist you, mongrel.

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>>93359915
>commercial success = quality meme

>>93359979
You're only defeating your own argument.

>>93359880
"More" could mean there are 50 regulars who are waifufags and 40 who think characters like Wendy are shit because she's so boring. It's still a lot. A ton of people browse this board, you know.

Most people agree they like characters with actual development, though. It's why Pacifica threads end up having more people bitching that she got sidelined than sexy art spammed of her, even though people still try to do that.

I mean, Ashi is a good example. Look at how many people made threads talking about her in terms of writing rather than just, "Post Ashi!" threads.

I'm not saying girl characters can't be sexy and agreeing with the decision to remove Ms. Bellum or anything. I'm saying it's often boring for character design and often leads to them just being "Also, there's a girl character". They may as well be the fucking love interest.

>>93359997
Is Super bombing in Japan or something?

>>93359954
Yep

>>93359371
>>93359412
Gargantia on the Verandous Planet
Or something like that. I probably didn't spell it right

>>93360003
No, but admitting Adventure Time has DBS-tier animation isn't helping the argument any.

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>>93358719
Then read a comic book, nigga!

>>93360002
Bruce Timm got away with it. He literally has a girl template for all his girl characters.

>>93357954
The nips have geneticly superior intellgence genes.

>"anime is superior" thread
>"4 keyframes, shaky-cam, CG/photo backgrounds, and digital effects" starts playing

>>93357971
this
also
the anime at the right made me puke when they started killing babyes, dropped instantly

>>93357954
Because Japan cuts so many corners anime might as well be a circle.

Even today they are inventing new ways to cut corners. Many animes now adopt 3d modes with some effects made to look like drawn anime. ie Kimi no Na wa

They are exceptionally good at cutting corners where you will not notice them. Which is way they have low FPS - in a good anime you will rarely notice these unless you are specifically looking for them. But when it looks bad, it looks like utter shit. Knights of Sidonia is specially guilty of that, it feels like a toaster trying to boot a gundam game

>>93358232
boy, those animated soap operas are what keeps the anime industry pristine. That shit brings the money so studios can occasionally engage in passion projects, unlike here where you have to suck corporate dick 24/7

>>93358895
I loved Gargantia. Anyone who hates it has shit taste.

>>93358905
OP's pic related. A story about a super soldier bred for war realizing his humanity and the sins of his past.

>>93358738
>first animated project that people will actually give a shit about,
Knights of Sidonia. yeah it was CGI. but it was really good. especially the sound direction

>>93360075
People overlook same template designs if they like the characters. Ghibli, Loud House siblings having the same template design, Alex Hirsch being only able to draw one kid character template.

All of Chris Sanders girls look like Nani but there's a reason why Nani is remembered while the others are considered rip-offs of her, even art he did before Lilo & Stitch. A good personality is the difference between token girl and actual character. And I think most of us would prefer a sexy girl who also has a personality. Look how many flavor of the months died off while characters like Korra have a decent balance of waifufags + "Did anyone like her?" threads.

I think it's unfair to judge the entirety of an animation style of two separate parts of the world based on a handful of examples. It's been around for so long that there are too many shows with such different styles that it's unfair to western and eastern animation. I love both for different reasons.

Western animation is usually very heavily stylized, intentionally going for a design that looks vastly different from our world. Simpler designs make it easier for children to recognize and enjoy, while also keeping them open to easy merchandise. They're also usually easier to draw because the lack of detail, but they move more rubbery/stretchy than realistic movements would allow, really emphasizing the squash and stretch technique for movements that flow better and are more fun to look at. The stories are also usually happening in a different world with odd creatures that let artists and animators go to town with their character designs. There are exceptions to t his of course, but this is what I see more than anything else. Western animation also loves animating animals as main characters, something eastern animation rarely does.

Eastern animation is mostly for an older audience of young teens and up. There are children's shows, but for every Yokai Watch there's 15 slice of life high school dramas. Characters are usually more detailed and realistically proportioned and live in the real world, or at least a very similar one to our own. Their stories are more adult oriented and star characters that the viewer can relate to easily. Their main characters are also usually around the ages of 16-18 because their audience is primarily high schoolers or those fresh out of it. There are exceptions to this as well, but primarily eastern animation is about slice of life situations and romance focused.

Both have their strengths and weaknesses. It's just all opinion and preference influence. Both are great.

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Reminder that 3 KyoAni TV series (those being Lucky Star, K-ON!, and Tamako Market) aired on Disney Channel Japan. /a/fags, how does it feel that your God is in contact with Disney and does business with them?

>>93359019
otakus don't care about the show all that much anyway. there's a reason of why the japanese VAs get away while doing the same fucking type of voice every damn season in more than one show

>>93359969
>lists trash
Are you even trying?

>>93360002
I agree with the bulk of you post, but I still honestly believe waifufags outnumber non-waifufags by at least 2/1 though it might not be immediately apparent because waifufags don't find a girl they like in every cartoon or comic they read so while they might champion Wendy in one thread they'll only want to discuss OtGW's themes in another.

>>93360166
It was okay. Plot felt a bit rushed at parts and wasted, characters didn't exactly standout, and the art was ho-hum average. I would honestly love to see a follow up sequel where they establish relations with their squid relatives, and maybe begin a third series later down the line where earth squids/kids form a third faction in that war to stop it all.

>>93360301
>Satoshi Kon body of work
>Trash

PFF HAHAHAHAHAHAH oh wow good chuckle anon, have a nice day. Have (you) on me. Don't spend it all in one place.

>>93360301
>Trash
?

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>>93360301
>trash
but he listed the best

>>93360274
So?

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>>93360274
>you will live to see american animation die and anime being the norm because networks are realizing it's simpler just to outsource than make your own stuff.

>>93360322
I just liked the whole broken soldier coming to peace plot line. Ledo and Amy were adorable, and I remember almost tearing up at the episode where he thinks about his dead brother.

The plot twists were pretty well done, too. I only wish they hadn't used CGI for the mecha.

>>93358202
He worked very hard on that reaction image but couldn't find a time to post it

>>93360385
The story outside the first episode was pretty by the numbers, in particular when it came to the main character.
How was the plot twist well done? Because you did not expect it? It wasn't poorly done either, but it was set up that the enemy was not what it seemed pretty early on.

It's a pretty mediocre mecha anime from 2010. Not outright bad or anything.

>>93360385

Chamber is too complex a design to animate using traditional 2d, especially if you want it to do fights.

Mecha are basically the one part of anime where CG is a neccessary evil the gives great results. Macross Frontier in 2007 gave us fight choerography using CG mecha that has only rarely been topped since.

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>comparing animation
>by posting screenshots
Also Japanese people tend to work longer hours for less money.

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>This thread
>No JojoPosting

>>93358453
>At least they decided to make those shots look good. Compared to the HB technique where cheap animation was noticeably cheap

now compare it to anime from that same era, the anime is even worses looking

>>93360376
>Implying France won't make more stuff without America
>Implying Denmark won't make more stuff without America
>Implying Germany won't finance more stuff without America.

>>93360496
>Ping-Pong

My nigga.

>>93360287

Eh. American fans are just as guilty of overvaluing the VAs and congregating around them more so than the animators/artists.

Go to any convention. The VAs get celebrity treatment behind velvet ropes with a green room, guards, etc.

Animators/artists usually pay their own way with a booth in artists alley.

VAs will always get more celebrity and credit when it comes to animation even if their contributions are disproportionately small compared to what every single other person in the process contributes.

>>93360479
It was well done because Ledo had a very notable reaction to it. I liked HOW it was revealed, too. What with the infant hideauze.
I also quite liked the later twist about Ledo's commander.

I also really liked the world building. Maybe because I'm a sucker for waterworld style post-apocalypse stories.

>>93360485
Well, to be fair, Chamber doesn't really do a lot of fighting and maneuvering in the last episode. He tends to hover in place and fire lasers all other times.

I wonder how many people here have actually worked in "animation" since many here feels like fucking experts on that regard and by that I dont mean draw some storyboards and some scenes then proceed to let the koreans/japanese finish the rest of your work like most cartoons, because that is part of the discussion, most animators arent supposed to do what they studied for .... fucking animate, everything is outsourced to South Korea and/or Japan.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kfEkv7ea4aY skip to minute 4 to get into the drawing parts
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7LgHOUTZ8Gc

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>>93360485

Macross fights are the best

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>>93360498
>>93360496
I think we're all forgetting some stand out recent animation.

>>93360496
Animators get paid by inbetween draws rather than per hours thus why is said why its a glorified sweatshop system

>>93360564
I know that. i'm talking about performance.
Western VAs tend to be alot better at making different types of voices or doing emotional scenes.
I remember when tomino (gundam creator) was doing reconguista and got angry that all the modern anime VA can only do otakubait voices.
There's some exception like Marina Inoue and Kobayashi Yuu and Sugita Tomokazu (when he wants that is).
We can especially see this on AAA games.

>>93360439
It's old as fuck you imbecile.

>>93358583
>>93358609
Better than 0 seconds, nu-males.

>>93360667
Does anyone else just hate mecha anime? I think it's retarded, and it never interests me. I'd honestly rather watch some generic SoL anime #8728 crap than anything mecha.

>>93357954
Now how does the thing on the right look like in motion?

>>93360849
like this >>93358422
>>93358485

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>>93360333
>>93360339
>>93360356
Triggered weebs

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>>93360896

>>93357954
Simple, it doesn't need it. The show focused on the story and charachters even though they sucked at that as well

>>93357954
Japanese animators are making a good, solid, nothing an hour

>>93360815
Different taste for each people m8, alot people cant stand the SoL or moe genre, Gurren Lagan, Eureka 7,Code Geass, RahXephon,Star Driver,Isekai no Seikishi Monogatari, those are a few each with a Mecha settings but the type of story usually differs with each one .... though know that I think so Mecha usually tend to get dark if not is dark from the get go

>>93358181
Clearly they were simply lazy. Shameful. their families will be shunned.

>>93357971
They both sent it to Korea. There's literally no difference.

>>93360948
true, because they are not paid an hourly salary, they are paid in commision of per-finished cel drawing/frame

>>93357954
Now when we're talking about American animation, are we actually talking about American or are we including "American" ie:Canadian and Korean?

Being an animator in Japan is a pretty shitty job desu. There's lots of documentary and commentaries about Japanese animators being unsatisfied with their jobs (http://kotaku.com/being-an-animator-in-japan-is-brutal-1690248803) . They're often overworked and underpaid, you need to either REALLY love your job or have no other option left, not to quite.

Western animation shows cost more because of things like VA's charging a shit load of money for barely working, the fact that american workers in general demand higher wages/salaries compared to workers in japan and thus Japanese animators are paid less, Japan tends to use LOTS of CGI these days which is much cheaper. There's also the work place culture to take into account.