Well, /co/? Has Superman turned heel or will he be the shining

Too bad whedon will fuck it up with quips up the ass

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I thought we already saw this movie?

>>93293895
I wonder if the movie is going to even feel like one movie?
Snyder and Joss' styles are just so different

And apparently Joss is having Danny Elfman score his scenes separately

>>93293935
Wasn't there an interview that said that Whedon will stay true to Snyder's original tone and vision?

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Right now I'm trying my best to completely lower any and all expectations I have for this. I figure if I go in convinced to my very core that it's going to be the worst superhero movie in the history of superhero movies... maybe I'll be able to come out saying it was okay.

Depends, I see them trying to keep the future vision but that doesn't necessarily mean it can't happen after he resurrects.
>>93293935
>Steppenwolf gets hit with an Icecream cone

>>93293895
Looks like everyone will blame Whedon for everything they don't like about the movie when it comes out.

Even though most of it's already done.

>>93294008
He's making a shitload of reshoots, probably to add WW barefoot and muh feminism.
Also you bet your ass he will use again the "puny god" scene

>>93293988
Well yeah, he can TRY
But he also tried to make Age of Ultron a good movie

So we know how poorly his efforts can go

>>93294023
I'm not sure about that. The movie comes out in 5 months, and most of the VFX must be already done by now.

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>>93294073
You're forgetting who this is
He probably had a clause in his contract to make Anita Sarkeezian to look over the movie to make sure it was ok

>>93294004
>Steppenwolf gets hit with an Icecream cone

Damn I don't know why but that made laugh out loud hard af

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>>93294004
>>Steppenwolf gets hit with an Icecream cone

>Looks you just got served Steppenwolf. SOFT served.

>>93293879
At most he'll be evil for 10 minutes before Lois breaks past Darkseid's mind control.

I still cant believe they're Death and Return after having only one film to himself.

>>93294143
>I still cant believe they're Death and Return after having only one film to himself.
Because for some reason whenever movie producers adapt something from another medium, they always ransack the greatest moments as fast as possible

>>93294143
People don't realize, but this trilogy revolves heavily around Superman and his impact on the world. Just because Henry Cavill doesn't have the most lines in the script doesn't mean he still isn't the star.

>>93294143
Why? Because your autism cannot allow them to do it any earlier than fifteen movies later down the line?

>>93294143
Well Lois is "The Key". So how much of the film will be dedicated to finding and protecting Lois before she leaves on her own to confront Superman.

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This one will flop, am I right /co/? I mean, it has to!

>>93294210
Ruh-roh
That triggers Joss's sensitive feelings.
Women are NOT plot devices! They have agency no matter what you say shitlord

Half the reshoots are probably Lois focused to give her a real place in the film instead of being a plotdevice

>>93294254
The capeshit movie bubble is finally going to burst. I've been saying this since Thor but this time for serious!

>>93293879
See? Just like /co/ predicted, Superman returns from the dead as a the joyful hope inspiring hero that people want!

>>93294270
Whedon is a "male feminist", what mean he hates women as much as the average anon but he's in denial about it

>>93294024
Most of the problems with Age of Ultron are a result of either trying to do too much in the run time or studio interference; things Snyder gets a pass on because >muh kino and >muh extended edition.

So this is how Snyder "honors" Superman... by making him a grim, joyless dickwad? Is Snyder projecting himself onto Supes? It sure as hell seems like it.

>>93294315
Nah, being a "male feminist", his problem is that he hates himself and is using his maleness as a scourge to punish himself.
>Ugh, hurt me more. Tell me I'm bad. But maybe I'm also good because I'm helping you? Please tell me I'm good

He just wants mommy to hell him he's a good boy

Based Snyder doubling down on everything plebs and not muh fags attacked him for. That's artistic integrity for you

>>93293879
Live-action mulletman?
Expectations slightly raised.

So are we getting Injustice Superman?

>>93293879
I doubt they buried him in a black suit

What if this is some mental battle like in Superman III?

>>93294400
I wish
At least that would show conviction and some kind of planning

Snyder/WB wants their cake and to eat it too.
He's a brooding anti-hero badass
But he's also SUPERMAN and full of hope!

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>>93293935

their styles could work very well together, Whedon adding entertaining interactions between the characters while Snyder handles all the key scenes and action sequences and I really hope that Whedon learns one or two things from Snyder like how to elevate a scene and not make it look like its been done with a tv-budget.
Snyder could as well have learnt some things from Whedon but he is gone for now.

At best their styles could really work well together if done in the right places and I really hope Whedon isn't such a fucktard to try and push his own vision everywhere.

>>93294004
>Steppenwolf gets hit with an Icecream cone
>Born to be Wild starts playing

>>93294421
>anti-hero
Care to explain this one, shitposter-kun?

>>93294456
He doesn't quip so he can't be a hero

>>93294407
The black suit was already in Zod's skull hallucination in MoS

>>93294456
>murders terrorists in Terrorstan with a smile on his face
>threatens to murder, well pretty much anyone who stands in his way (i.e. Lex, Batman)

>>93294456
>An antihero, or antiheroine, is a protagonist who lacks conventional heroic qualities such as idealism, courage, or morality. These characters are usually considered "conspicuously contrary to an archetypal hero

Of course now you're gonna respond with that reddit style pictograph of all the people he saved, and then I'll respond to that with it being about character traits, and you'll say I'm retarded and a liar and a shill and don't understand that Snyder was just trying to humanize Superman, to which I'll say that the humanized frailties and personality flaws, and overall failings and "bittersweetness" as you define them are what shift him from being a Classical Hero to an Anti-Hero, at which point you'll just double down on the name calling and I'll go find porn and masturbate.

Good thread. See you in six hours when we do it all over again.

>>93294178
Superman is a plot device in these movies, not an actual character. That's the problem.

>>93293879
Nice try but this is fan art

>>93294456
Superman is awfully apathetic about humanity. He can be a good guy and help humanity when he's not having existential crises about helping humanity.

>>93293879
This can't be real.

>>93294178
The Jaws movies revolve heavily around the shark but nobody's saying it's a nuanced character.

>>93294424
>Snyder
>Good Action scenes

Pick one- https://youtu.be/0VxQHdDDCO4

>>93294608
>Superman is a plot device in these movies, not an actual character. That's the problem.
And that won't change if his Clark Kent persona stays dead. Snyder just wasn't interested in the Daily Planet.

>>93294573
Wow I've never seen a more jaded person on an Arabian moving picture emporium.

Actions speak louder than words.Superman's actions, as you've already pointed out, attest to his heroism. His human frailties don't matter when he's shown to have overcome them several times. That's what courage is. Self-sacrifice for the greater good, putting yourself in harm's way for the sake of other people, that's what a hero does. That's what Superman did in the films.

>>93294705
Superman sans Clark Kent can still be an interesting character

Most Justice League comics have very little Clark Kent, reporter, in them.

Cavill doesn't deserve this shit.

>Inexperienced and violent in MoS
>Sidelined in BvS and killed off
>Evil in JL

When will he actually get to become Superman?

>>93294608
>Superman is a plot device in these movies, not an actual character
How do you explain his character development then?

>>93294651
>Superman is awfully apathetic about humanity.

I call b8 but anyway, he has always been helping even before he wore the cape and even after, he has been constantly saving people, he saved earth twice already and dying by doing so.

>>93294654
It's not

>>93294712
>Actions speak louder than words.Superman's actions, as you've already pointed out, attest to his heroism.
Do they?
Do they really?

The big complaint by /co/ of MoS is that Superman never tries to drag Zod out of the city.
They just brawl like Zod slapped Lois' ass. It didn't matter where.
But it did matter and it should have mattered.

Snyder only cares about the "epic" scene. And a lot of time, he succeeds on making an image look really good. But he misses out on everything else going on.
Like, again in MoS, Lois and Clark hug in the middle of a wasteland of destruction. Yes, nice image. But meanwhile there are people that need help and Superman is having snuggly time with his squeeze.

That type of stuff happens again and again
Superman is only heroic when it doesn't conflict with looking cool.

WHY DON'T YOU QUIP YOU MOTHERFUCKER?? FUCK CHARACTER ARCS FUCK OVERARCHING PLOTS FUCK COMPLEXITY JUST QUIP BITCH WHY DON'T WANT A FUCKING BOOK JUST SAY SOMETHING ABOUT THE SIZE OF YOUR TURDS ALREADY REEEEEE

>>93294767
>The big complaint by /co/ of MoS is that Superman never tries to drag Zod out of the city.

Which is idiotic because the fight is actually taken out of Metropolis only for Zod to take it back there.

>>93294756
>he saved earth twice already and dying by doing so.
He saved Lois and Martha, not the Earth
They both just happened to live on it

That's the difference between SnyderSupes and mainline Superman. The Earth alone is enough to give everything.
Snyder's version is a Randian superhero. Through selfishness comes productivity and through productivity the world is improved

>>93294712
>Actions speak louder than words.Superman's actions, as you've already pointed out, attest to his heroism.
Anti-heroes do the right thing at the end of the day too. Nothing you've said actually precludes the idea of this Clark being one. For example, Dirty Harry is the go-to example of an anti-hero, yet his actions still have him catching the bad guy by the time the movies over. By your logic he's not an anti-hero because his behavior before that point is irrelevant.
You seem to think anti-hero is synonymous with villain. It's not. It's about presentation and in that sense yes, the human frailties do matter. They're the distinction.

>>93294791
But we never see Superman's will to leave the city.
That's the important thing
They brawl all the way to heaven, but it isn't a choice made by any of them. The fight just leads them there and then straight back down again.

Let's not forget the "little hop over the gasoline tanker that explodes and demolishes a building" bit
Can't argue against that one

>>93294731
>"He needs to do this for the story I want to work".
>"But that makes no sense"
>"What if we railroad him and ignore any logical consistency in the plot, and then accuse people of being stupid and just wanting The Avengers again in interviews?"
>"Fine guys, whatever."

That's how I explain it.

>>93293895
>>93294008
>people still fall for this shill strat

I see these two posts in literally every thread I read about the subject. Makes me wonder if it's the same employee.

>>93294829
>But we never see Superman's will to leave the city.

Listen to yourself, good God.

>>93294143
People forget that Snyder asked to do MoS2 before BvS but the executives told him to skip it.

>>93294829
He's gonna tell you to rewatch the movie because Clark looks back and recoils in horror at letting that happen. Just like how when he's making out with Lois if you watch *really carefully* multiple times in zapruder-esque super slow motion you can see they're *actually* shaking due to PTSD.

>/co/ STILL don't understand the struggle of a real person turned into a symbol
>implying if any of you were the superman you wouldn't go full Kurt Cobain in a matter of months
No hope for you guys, maybe with Whedon aboard these movies will be easier to follow

With whedon directing, WW will probably beat his ass for fun

>>93294875
Well we don't?

We don't see Clark tackle Zod and try to drag him outside the limits.
When they're in space, we don't see him try to kick him down elsewhere
His choice of where to fight is very passive

Remember, everything that happens in a movie is by choice. The writer and director chose every last moment. If something doesn't happen and it should, it's a legitimate criticism.
Movies aren't real and you can't say "Well character X didn't have time to do Y". Of course they did. They were just chosen not to.

>>93294767
No he fought Batman well really he went to Batman because Lois and Martha.
All acts of heroism in the movie except the African Warlords had no real stake for him.

>>93294829
>they leave the city and Zod comes back
>y-yeah but did Superman want to leave the city like he did in the movie
Haha oh wow

>>93294933
>>they leave the city and Zod comes back
Flying straight up and falling straight down does not constitute "leaving the city"

>>93294907
>>/co/ STILL don't understand the struggle of a real person turned into a symbol
>implying if any of you were the superman you wouldn't go full Kurt Cobain in a matter of months
If I wanted to see a movie about an average asshole tormented by his inner demons I'd just take a three hour selfie. You gonna defend that for years on end as well, or do I need to get Armond White to cum in your face first for that to happen?

>>93294948
They hit a fucking satellite during the fight.

>>93294959
So?

>>93294907
Wonder Woman was well received because it was an extremely simple stoy to follow but unfortunately had no depth or substance to it. Personally I say ignore the normies completely and go full kino. Delete all handholding.

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>>93294954
>If I wanted to see a movie about an average asshole tormented by his inner demons I'd just take a three hour selfie
That or a good movie, whatever you choose

>>93294948
>>93294963
>literally in space
>NOPE STILL IN THE CITY
I guess Superman is still in Krypton then.

>>93294731

...what character development?

In Man of Steel he only steps up to the plate because an alien invasion forces him to, and after that he can't go back into hiding again because people know he exists now.

In BvS, he is just sort of following along from stupid plot twist to stupid plot twist, occasionally saving people like its the most tedious fucking job anyone has ever been forced to do. In MoS Clarke saves people because he can't stop himself, but at least he seemed dedicated to it. In BvS, literally every fucking scene of him doing superhero stuff he has a face that says "Fuck, why am I even here?"

In the end, he kills himself to satisfy the martyr complex that he been drilled into his head for two movies.

That isn't character development. How does he grow? How does his viewpoint change? What does he learn? What important choices does he make? What does he WANT, and why?

Snyder's superman is painted so broadly that every one of those questions has, at best, an answer that's just a plot mandate rather than any aspect of the character within that plot.

>>93293895
Wheldon avengers 1 and 2 : 90% and 75% on RT
Zack hack MoS and DvS : 55% and 27% on RT

Zach Snyder movies sucks, this is a proved FACT

>>93294948
>leaving the city upwards isn't really leaving city
wew let's agree to disagree now, I don't see this leading to anything

>>93294992
Rewatch the movie until the fanfiction that's about to get posted sinks in.

>>93294992
>In Man of Steel he only steps up to the plate because an alien invasion forces him to, and after that he can't go back into hiding again because people know he exists now.
He was helping a lot of people before the invasion remeber?

If Snyder's Superman isn't a hero like people claim, then he wouldn't be saving people, period. It's that simple. Do EMT's smile all the time and quip when they're saving lives? No. Saving lives is a serious matter, and should not be treated lightly. All you NOT MUH fags need to get a grip.

>>93294963
>technically speaking the thermosphere where they hit the satellite is still within the geographical area of city, just tens of miles above it.
>tips fedora

>>93294983
You're getting pretty autistic about something that doesn't change the outcome of the argument.

There is no scene in the end fight of Man of Steel that has Superman clearly and obviously expressing a desire to fight Zod outside Metropolis

You cannot say there was such a scene.

And hell, let's just erase that argument entirely
What about the other scenes of Superman not giving a shit?
Like when he's making out with Lois inside a crater of his own making? Why isn't he helping all the people he can hear screaming for help?

>>93294992
So he becomes a hero in these movies culminating in the sacrifice of his own life? All that despite humanity questioning him and his motivations? Good character development

>>93295016
Alternatively don't rewatch if you're not going to pay attention this time either

>>93295031

Sure. Helping people and then bolting like a scared deer so no one would catch him in the act.

Clarke in MoS acts like saving human lives is equivalent to masturbating in public restrooms. He knows he shouldn't do it, but he can't stop.

>>93295055
>So he becomes a hero in these movies culminating in the sacrifice of his own life? All that despite humanity questioning him and his motivations? Good character development
That's not what character development means

>>93294424
>their styles could work very well together
>inplying anything could work with fedora-SJW

>>93295055
Because he was scared of the gov going after him but he keep helping people anyway.

>>93294920
Because he doesn't know how to fight you fucking moron. It's his first day and he's having to singlehandedly fight off an army as strong as he is. Jesus Christ you autistic fuck did you get butthurt in Batman Begins when Bruce let Ra's die?

>>93295049
>What about the other scenes of Superman not giving a shit?

Oh, you mean when he
>Saves the people on the oil rig
>Saves Lois from bleeding to death
>Saves several soldiers during the fight in
>Tries to get the fight out of Smallville but two super powered Kryptonians double teaming him stop his attempts every time
>Saves Lois after the Phantom Zone portal sucks everything inside it

Yeah, he just doesn't give a fuck.

>>93294705
Well that shows in his utter lack of understanding how a newspaper is run.

>>93294948
Arguing with you retards is a waste of time.

Kys faggot.

>>93295073
>goes from no hero to hero, to hero who doubts his role as a hero after becoming a controversial figure, to full self-sacrificing hero
>n-not character development
lol

>>93295049
see
>>93295042

>>93295042
You can save people and still not be a hero in the literary sense.

>>93295042
Do EMT's scowl and stare silently into the middle distance?

When one person helps another, they usually say stuff like "are you OK?" They don't stare and grimace.

Take helping that Mexican child. A person who isn't autistic would say something along the lines of "it's going to be OK," and would probably smile to reassure a small child.

Personally, I would try to do it quickly so I could save as many people as possible and get victims to the hospital but I'd still talk to reassure them.

>>93295112
It bothers me why couldn't he just send Zod to the phantom zone instead of killing him like he always do in comics

Fucking Snyder wanting to be Edgy

>>93295042
But the firemen who risked their lives on 9/11 were quipping all the way, "I don't see how this is a party" being the most repeated line

>>93295129
>A hero (masculine) or heroine (feminine) is a person or main character of a literary work who, in the face of danger, combats adversity through impressive feats of ingenuity, bravery or strength, often sacrificing their own personal concerns for a greater good.

Try again.

>>93295101
That's not actually character development; he doesn't change. He's doing the asme thing hew as doing as an eleven year old; saving people and waiting for the other shoe to drop and questioning if he should even try at all. His mentality hasn't changed and the movie doesn't really explore it. Clark's pretty static as a character.

That's kind of the problem with your "Actions speak louder than words" presentation; you can infer anything you want onto actions/

>>93295055
>So he becomes a hero in these movies culminating in the sacrifice of his own life? All that despite humanity questioning him and his motivations? Good character development

No, you fool. Not good character development, because you are describing a PLOT arc, not a CHARACTER arc.

"Guy becomes a hero and then performs an act of self sacrifice" is just a checkbox that more than half of the superhero movies ever made has filled in.

Like, fucking MCU Ironman checks that exact same box. He even also has people questioning him and his motivations! Wow, I guess Tony Stark and Clarke Kent must be exactly alike! People question Cap about it less in his first movie, but Captain America did the same thing. And Batman, and Antman, and...

I hope you are getting the picture. None of this describes the characters, just what they do in the three act structure of the plot.

Are you seeing the difference yet? Because if you don't, you genuinely don't understand what a character is.

>>93294721
But he's still Clark when written well in those. This we're drifting towards one of those old stories where he's just Kal and that never went well.

>>93295131
Don't forget making out with your girlfriend next to a burning building

That's part of any EMT's training

>>93295042
You're making a lot of assumptions for a movie you haven't watched

>>93295165
Okay. >>93294573
>>An antihero, or antiheroine, is a protagonist who lacks conventional heroic qualities such as idealism, courage, or morality. These characters are usually considered "conspicuously contrary to an archetypal hero

"He saved people!" doesn't mean he's not an anti-hero. Because in the liteary sense an anti-hero isn't a villain; just a different kind of hero.
There's classical heroes, byronic heros, and anti-heroes. Of which Snyder is obsessed with the third.

>>93295136
What about that time he didn't?

>>93295170
>"I guess Superman was a farmer's dream all along"
>fights heroically against Doomsday to save the world half an hour later, literally dying in the process
In the same movie, man. In the same fucking movie

>>93295199
>idealism
He had an existential crisis on top of a mountain, got over it, and made the ultimate sacrifice, without regard for his well-being. "This is my world, YOU are my world"

>courage
Willing to take a spike to the fucking chest while being weakened by kryptonite just to protect Lois, humanity and the Earth in general. If that doesn't take some balls I don't know what does.

>morality
If he didn't have morals he wouldn't value human life and go out of his way to help and save others.

>>93295168
Donner did that shit in the first part of the first Superman.

Snyder struggling through it in two films and still hasn't gotten there.

>>93295217
So he had a crisis of faith but then decided to save the world anyway?
Kind of like Steve after Bucky died.
Or Bruce after Rachel died.
Such nuance. Much character revelation.

>>93295190
He can hear all the people trapped in the rubble, right? That would be hundreds, maybe thousands of people.

When he is kneeling and Lois has comforting him- that is enough. That shows that he is upset and regrets having to kill- y'know like a human being might. Instead of making out, have him hear people trapped in the rubble and go and save them.

>>93293879
Hiring Whedon was a bad idea.

>>93295253
>"This is my world, YOU are my world"

>Although antiheroes may sometimes do the "right thing", it is often for the "wrong reasons" and because it serves their self-interest rather than being driven by moral convictions.

>"This is *my* world, YOU are *my* world"

Clark just wants to protect HIS shit.

>>93295190
It was the heat of the moment. They almost got sucked into a freakin' black hole!

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I'm not sure anymore if they're gonna go down the "Supes is evil! Lois is the KEY!" route anymore. Geoff Johns seems to want to make the DCEU hopeful and inspiring again, especially with Superman. He even hinted recently at a "Top 5 DCEU Superman moments" article, that they would have to be ready to update it. Plus Joss Whedon's taking over the show, and not to mention people are praising how much of a hero Wonder Woman has come off.

It's entirely possible Superman comes back as a good guy, saves everyone's ass, and fights together with them. I mean it would be monumentally stupid to bring him back as a brainwashed zombie for the league to fight. The criticism towards the darker and more destructive version of Superman, has been pretty widespread and vocal since Man of Steel. Why would they bring him back as a bad guy? Seems to me like making Superman likeable again should be their #1 priority when it comes to his character in Justice League.

>>93295168
>he doesn't change

He changes a lot. He finds the courage to trust others and go out to the public with his secret after decades of hiding and he learns how to bear the weight of being a public celebrity/superhero whose actions are scrutinized 24/7 rather than letting self-doubt and fears get to him.

>>93295292
Good thing Superman is a selfish bastard then, otherwise we'd all be chow for Doomsday.

>>93295150
Nobody wants their heroes to accurately reflect how you'd actually react to trudging through human misery 24/7.
Especially fucking Superman
>>93295301
To be fair Supes going evil was totally Darkseid fuckery.

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>>93295292
Snyder is a proud objectivist
Clark is literally designed to be a Randian superhero

>>93295301
That means we're gonna have a sharp tonally shift after Justice League if the reshoots can't change the film from the great Lois Maguffin hunt.

>>93295347
Then what's with all the helping people for no gain?

>>93295301
>The criticism towards the darker and more destructive version of Superman, has been pretty widespread and vocal since Man of Steel. Why would they bring him back as a bad guy?
This is still a Zack Snyder movie at the end of the day.

>>93295347
I don't understand this, what's with the hatred for objectivism on this site? It's hurled around all the time like an insult.

>>93295353
>>93295335

They could just...drop the Lois Lane is the key shit you know? And if the want to go down that route, they shouldn't do it right now. Wait a bit. Make people love Superman again, and then bring on the Darkseid fuckery so the audience FEELS something when they see this beloved hero fighting the league.

>>93295378
Clark saved the oil refinery men because Martha needs oil to run her farm.
And all those people in BvS? Well Lois was just out of frame

>>93295378
You mean the shit that gets relegated to montages? For his own self-aggrandizement.
Or, maybe we don't know why because they don't actually explore his internal character at all across two movies; just his affect on everybody else.

95% of Clark's characterization in these movies is headcanon one way or the other because the entire point of them is that it's about how WE force our viewpoints onto him. Yet if you dare question the fact that maybe he's not a perfect good boy you're a shill and a drone and got it wrong.

>>93295415
Nobody in my theater cared when he died. People were cracking jokes about it. The ship has sailed, crashed, and sank. Just make Aquaman likable.

>>93294254
> One of the most iconic Super Heroes of all time
> Has huge female viewership push on top of that
> First good movie the DCEU actually ever did.
> No competition in theaters

vs

> C-List Origin Movie released during the fall against stiff competition.

And only focusing on the Domestic sales too might I add. Not that it matters either way since both were fairly good movies.

I mean let's take a step back first since this is obvious Shill Damage Control I'm obviously responding to. No one is expecting this movie to flop even if it is shit. Maybe under-perform, but not flop. It will be BvS all over again with that lemming effect stampede then sharp drop off most likely. But who can say, maybe we'll get another Wonder Woman surprise (though doubtful).

At this point you people are the same mentality as Trump apologists, contrarian for the sake of being contrarian all the while parroting the most patently false and misconstrued statements to make yourselves as obnoxious as possible. Your response to anything casting doubt on the DCEU is pretty much this crying "fake news" in the form of these toddler-tantrum threads. Fuck, at this point you'd let Warner Bros take a shit in your mouth if a "Mouseketeer" had to smell it.

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>>93295347
Someone with actual talent should redo what I did

>>93295519
kek

>>93295464
That's funny, there were a few people in my theater sniffling from crying when Superman died. Different strokes I guess.

>>93295474
>lower budget
>much less marketing
>no famous cast
>competing with billion making franchises like Pirates and now Cars
>le worst franchise evuh that no one likes (tm)(even though every movie performs better than the last)
>still get BTFO
Nice to see you guys backpedalling this hard, a month ago you were predicting this movie making less than First Avengers or the other MCU flops

>>93295414
Because Ayn Rand is a hack and the "philosophy" is just an excuse to be as much as a cunt as possible.

Like, the idea is that in a perfect objectivist world, society is like an arch with everything pressuring and pushing everyone else and all that effort balances out and creates something superior than if the parts were just lying about instead of pushing against each other.

But the fact is that unless everyone starts acting the same at the same time, all you get is, ironically, parasitical douchebags leeching off the success of others by being backstabbing faithless cunts.

Of course Rand would say it's your own damn fault for allowing yourself to be used. Ignore the fact that she said this while living on welfare. She's not a hypocrite, you're all just suckers

>>93295347
see
>>93295318

>>93295617
Thanks, Ayn
I guess self-interest really does save the world

>>93295126
He was always a sacrificing hero, and he still doubts. That's not development

>>93295581
No one got BTFO.
- Lower Budget by a hair
- Considering Strange had virtually no marketing I can remember I would be interested to see any facts put against this.
- Mads Mickleson and Benedict Cumberbatch are more small screen celebrities than big screen draws. Cherry picking 101.
- And Strange competed with Fantastic Beasts which outperformed Pirates of the Caribbean 5.
And these billion dollar franchises you're crowing about have all vastly under-performed making them virtually no point in bringing up. Next you'll try bragging about WW going up against the Mummy.

It's not really backpedaling if I never made an initial claim to backpedal from. And if this is the same DCEU shill/apologist I think it is none of the MCU movies were flops, unless you consider MoS and BvS flops that is. We've been there and had that conversation.

At the end of the day there's nothing a Zack Snyder movie could do that you wouldn't defend after the fact (or even before it). You're just a willfully ignorant fanboy. Nothing more.

>>93295136
are you retarded? One of Superman's most famous stories is him killing Zod. And the writer of that story even said Snyder did it better.

http://comicbook.com/2015/07/06/superman-legend-dan-jurgens-man-of-steel-handled-zods-death-bett/

>>93295435
>You mean the shit that gets relegated to montages? For his own self-aggrandizement.


M8, he literally saves more people in MoS than he does in the Donner movies. By your reasoning Donner Superman is even less of a hero.

>>93295414
Because /co/ is full of /co/mmunist tumblr faggots.

Statist cucks.

>>93294254
I'm just glad I got to see superhero movies that weren't just about Batman, Superman and Spider-man, desu.

>>93295415
right because this is the first time Lois has ever been the key for Superman

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8Hdf0bg0gMU


Goddamn, even the DCAU does the same shit.

>>93296217
You don't actually understand my reasoning. You actively refuse to.

In the literary sense heroism is less about the numbers of how many you save and more about how you conduct yourself while doing so. But you can't meme that going "HE SAVED SEVEN BILLION PEOPLE TWICE" so you don't want to hear it.

>>93295136
>edgy
>Superman fucking cries like a baby after killing Zod

you are a stupid fucking child.

>>93295136
oh yeah SO edgy

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_93l5q7AWDM


just end yourself, you are incapable of thinking or yourself and parrot the worst internet opinions

>>93295301
> The criticism towards the darker and more destructive version of Superman, has been pretty widespread and vocal since Man of Steel.

But its a false criticism, this superman hasnt been dark or destructive. He is just in movies with destructive characters like Zod and dark characters like Batman.


What is the "darkest" thing this Superman has done? Kill a man that was going to commit genocide and then cry about it?

>>93295276
No, hiring Snyder was a bad idea. Whedon is just damage control.

>>93295581
>>much less marketing
>WW
>less marketing
Are you serious?
Also, it's probably will make less money than fucking Deadpool

>>93295435
I mean you can argue we don't know why he does it but self aggrandizement seems off the table since first off he did it all in secrecy and when he was out of the closet any adulation results in immediate regret.

>>93296280
But what are you even saying, you are just headcanoning that he saved people for his own self-aggrandizement., and then you even admit its your own view point you are forcing onto him.


Prove that he is doing it for self-aggrandizement, because the guy doesnt even stick around after saving people to get any praise.

>>93296280
>You don't actually understand my reasoning

You dont understand your own reasoning, you flat out admitted

>it's about how WE force our viewpoints onto him.


You are forcing a viewpoint onto him that has 0 proof behind it m8.

>>93296373
>but self aggrandizement seems off the table since first off he did it all in secrecy a
Not really. There's a theory that goes he saves people because it feels good. Granted he doesn't express that but it's as good a reason as any to actually explain why he does it as the movie doesn't really explore it. And no "Because his dad saved the dog" is just as empty a theory.

Maybe self-aggrandizement is the wrong word. Maybe he'll feel guilty otherwise and is just trying to absolve himself of that guilt. Either way, again ,we don't know, because all we have to go on is "he saved people! actions speak louder than words!"

This conversation is why you fucking need those words. I can tell you why Stark is a superhero; he feels guilty for being a war profiteer. I can tell you Steve Rogers just hate bullies and has experience with them as he was weak for most of his life. Peter Parker's got a goddamn mantra. But Clark's altruism and willingness to save lives is just there. It's innate and untapped and unexplored. He just DOES it, and we're supposed to derive motive from the end result or otherwise it's """"spoonfeeding"""". So why not? I say it's because he's a holier than thou dick that sees little weak humans as a chore. He certainly doesn't enjoy what he does so why is my interpretation any less valid than yours when they didn't bother actually explaining in detail what goes on in his head?

>>93296185
1-Dan Jurgens didn't write that story you fucking casual.

2- The story only existed because Byrne had a "I get to ignore the editors" clause in his contract. It was almost immediately retconned.

>>93296459
I guess but "a niggling chore because he's feel guilty otherwise." isn't quite Randian as I understand it.

>>93296521
I never mentioned Rand. That's another anon piggybacking on my argument. My argument is, and continues to be, that the "why" of this Superman is simultaneously nothing and whatever anyone wants it to me, because that kind of character introspection was considered unimportant when making the movies with him in it.

>>93296511
You are right, I had a brain fart. But Jurgens still said they handled it better. And it wasnt immediately reconnected at all, there was a whole issue where Superman feels bad about it.

>>93296554
alright fair enough

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>>93296459
What a shitty theory based on nothing. You are really desperately trying to push this randian thing with 0 evidence.


There is way more evidence that he does good things for the sake of doing good. Like the fact that he never asks for anything in return and no one ever tells him he has a duty to do any of this. He chooses to.


And he sure as hell never sticks around to get any compliments after doing it.


>Either way, again ,we don't know, because all we have to go on is "he saved people! actions speak louder than words!"

Yeah exactly, you can see from his actions and context (like I said above) he is doing it because he wants to, not because he a feels any obligation to. This is pretty easy to understand, even Geoff Johns understands this and puts it in Secret Origin in almost the exact same way. Try reading some comics sometime.

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>>93296459

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>>93296459
Clark has always been a superhero just because he wants to be. Read more comics.

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>>93293879
It took me until this thread to realize his name is "joss" and not "josh".

>>93296459
>I've never read a Superman comic before, the post

>>93296622
>>93296626
Irrelevant. We're not talking about the comics.
Also why aren't you posting the "stop looking for a savior" page where he says he's not a god and just wants to help? Is it because that's him actually explaining his motivations and runs counter to your argument?

I'd be 1000% fine with cinematic version of Secret Origins Superman. He actually talks to people. Lex isn't a twitchy typecast Eisenberg. But let's not pretend that the DCEU is that.

>>93293879
This is Snyder hero mode. JL will be shit soup.

>>93296554
>My argument is, and continues to be, that the "why" of this Superman is simultaneously nothing and whatever anyone wants it to me, because that kind of character introspection was considered unimportant when making the movies with him in it.

But that is entirely wrong. Both MoS and BvS are about what we project onto Superman, sure, but they also use that idea to contrast what Superman isnt with what he actually is. Zod projects the last hope of krypton onto Superman who, through his actions, rejects that and proves he is here for humanity. Batman and Luthor project a person like you are, a god who does something for either his own sake or for no real reason at all and will turn on humanity eventually. But Superman, again through his actions (and his words when he shows Batman his first concern when dying is the life of an innocent human) shows that he isnt that, he just wants to save people because he is a man who just wants to do good and is driven by his loved ones.

>>93296185
>One of Superman's most famous stories is him killing Zod.
No it's not. Nobody gave a shit about that story before MoS. The sheer fact that you only know of it as "him killing Zod" instead of talking about pocket universes or genoicde shows this because you only know of it through images posted on a Yemenite croquet board.
Also, they were originally going to have Zod put in the Phantom Zone in MoS but Snyder *chose* to make Superman kill him instead.

>>93296703
I like that you specified that last part, because i still need an explanation as to why he can always save Lois but never the likes of Perry White or Jimmy "just CIA my shit uo" Olsen. Fuck, he can keep track of Lois all the way to Africa but is unaware of his mom being kidnapped a few miles away

>>93296703
And that's your opinion. Your interpretation of his actions. It's not the only one or the right one. There is no right one.

"Actions speak louder than words" but the pen, words, are mightier than the sword.

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>>93295301

I have 0 belief in him coming back as a bad guy with all the rewrites this movie had. I'm expecting him to come back with something like amnesia, sees that the world celebrated superman after his sacrifice, remembers his past and goes to save the league at the end of the movie with a renewed sense of purpose.

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>>93296674
Are you dumb? I'm seriously asking. The page you are referring to is him talking to a handful of people. That would really change the opinions of Luthor and Batman now wouldnt it? Telling a handful of people he isnt a god. And you know he tried to tell the world he isnt a god, but Luthor blew up the Senate.


Also in that page you are referring to he never says god, he just says savior. And he never says he just wants to help. Good job not even reading the page. He literally gives us just as much information to why he is here as he does in MoS or BvS. He has a great gift and wants to help.


And look at
>>93296613

>>93293879
I don't think well vet the real one till the end. Better have a glorious mullet.

We might have she bullshit ones like the comics had.

>>93296868
Wonder if they'll spoil it next month, so fucking dumb they can't use supes to advertise a justice league movie

>>93296715
>Also, they were originally going to have Zod put in the Phantom Zone in MoS but Snyder *chose* to make Superman kill him instead.


Who is they? It was literally a single conversation he was having with Nolan where Nolan suggested it one way and Snyder wanted to have the death to establish his no-kill policy.


And I'd say Superman killing Zod is one of the more important parts of Byrne's Man of Steel because there is a whole issue later about Supeman being sad about it and going to the moon to grieve.


Also Reeves Superman killed Zod too so go be mad at those movies. Was Donner super edgy like Snyder and just wanted a death because it would be cool?

>inb4 they werent killed, they were just thrown into a bottomless abyss and never came back out!!!

>>93294089
Have you seen his Wonder Woman script? He may love feminism but feminism doesn't love him.

>>93294254
I'm surprised as anyone that DC had some success. I still think she's too skinny but she's likable on screen while still have some physical power.

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>>93296897
Except they did come out you idiot. Blame the troubling production for not making it clear, but Zod and the others were properly arrested

>>93296836
>The page you are referring to is him talking to a handful of people.
That's more than none.
Post the entire comic instead of piecemeal in an attempt to hide stuff that disagrees with you. His reasonings and motivations are explored chapters before that.

Hell, he has a whole segment with the legion where he finds out he's basically destined to do what he does.

>>93296745
Way to not have a counter argument and go on a complete unrelated tangent, but ill entertain this retarded argument.


Perry White hasnt needed saving yet and this guy using the Jimmy Olsen name was a CIA agent. If you knew the first thing about Superman you would know he doesnt get involved in man's politics like that. The same reason he doesnt stop wars that dont involved super powered beings or super science.


>he can keep track of Lois all the way to Africa

Yes because he knew she was going to Africa and was specifically watching her from the sky to keep her save, knowing she, an innocent civilian, was putting herself in danger.


Its like you didnt even watch the movie m8.

>>93296759
>I dont have an argument but you are wrong!!!

Notice how I provided actual evidence for my claims while you dont? You just pull yours out the ass. There is plenty in the movie to show you why Superman does things, the movies are all about false projections like your own, but they do make a point to give us everything we need to see the truth.

>>93296904
Link?
I'd love to see this

>>93296980
http://uproxx.com/webculture/joss-whedon-wonder-woman-script-yikes/

>>93296947
What parts disagree with me? Its not a Secret Origins adaptation so why would I post the whole comic? The movie, like every new story about Superman, takes elements of what came before and tells its own tale with them. I could post comics from before Secret Origin that disagree with points made in Secret Origin but that doesnt make it any less valid. And I can also find comics that have bits and pieces that Secret Origin took directly from.


Its like this is your very first comic or something bby, get overyourself.

>>93296957
Not being political means he has to let innocents die? Holy shit, if as you're saying he was monitoring the situation there was no good reason not to save Jimmy Olsen

Speaking of which
>guy using the Jimmy Olsen name
Ahahah, you're still clinging to the idea that it was a ruse and Snyder secretly respects Jimmy's character?

>>93296934
They werent arrested you stupid pleb. This was only ever shown in the television version and is not part of the donner cut.

Good job reaching super hard to prove your non-point.

>>93296957
>and this guy using the Jimmy Olsen name was a CIA agent. If you knew the first thing about Superman you would know he doesnt get involved in man's politics like that.
How does he know that Jimmy is a CIA agent, and why does being a CIA agent in of itself mean he's allowed to die?

>>93297005
I'm just saying that was a guy named Jimmy Olsen, and how was Olsen an innocent? He was a CIA agent that got killed doing CIA things, Superman doesnt interfere with that stuff.


Lois was never meant to be in a combat zone so he saves her.


No other innocents die, the only other people that die are all soldiers/terrorists.

>>93296993
Wow
But to be fair
>You're not a hero, Diana, you're a fucking tourist
is a great line. Maybe not for this movie, but there's a place for it somewhere

>>93297056
but he does know Jimmy is CIA agent because its revealed to everyone right before he dies.


> why does being a CIA agent in of itself mean he's allowed to die?

The same reason Superman doesnt interfere with normal wars anon. Because this is a man v man conflict and they need to figure it out for themselves. You might as well ask why Superman doesnt end all war.

>>93296976
>Notice how I provided actual evidence for my claims while you dont?
No actually. I just noticed more asspulls and projections and repeated insistence that it's the truth.

I could say that Clark sees humanity as an animal that needs saving because he's mirroring how Jonathan went back to get the dog and that by that logic he's subconsciously elevating himself over humanity. It's like you didn't even watch the movie.

>>93297000
>Its not a Secret Origins adaptation
Exactly. Yet you think it's relevant. It's not.

>>93297044
It was filmed by Donner and then ignored by Lesser because the idiot thought it didn't matter

I know it's not in the Donner cut... because Superman flies back in time so that Zod is again alive and well in the phantom zone. No matter how you spin it, Donner's Supes didn't kill anybody

>>93293879

I want this to succeed just in order for MCU to go full circle and do a Sentry movie.

>>93297087
>Lois was never meant to be in a combat zone so he saves her.
Lois chose to be there. She's a reporter; sometimes war correspondents die, and it's a tragedy but something to be expected. She's just doing her job like Olsen was just doing his.

The only real difference is that Superman is fucking Lois so she gets a get out of jail free card.

I hope that Whedon saves the movie.

>>93294254

>Already passed Logan in domestic box office

I'm glad. I liked Dogan, but it doesn't have a lot of rewatchability.

>>93297116
>I could say that Clark sees humanity as an animal that needs saving because he's mirroring how Jonathan went back to get the dog and that by that logic he's subconsciously elevating himself over humanity

Thats not evidence, thats a thesis. Now back it up with actual evidence in the movies that show this like I did. Look.
> Both MoS and BvS are about what we project onto Superman, sure, but they also use that idea to contrast what Superman isnt with what he actually is.

That is my thesis. Now here is evidence.

> Zod projects the last hope of krypton onto Superman

This definitely happened in the movie, there is no arguing that. From Clark literally being the codex, to Zod telling him to choose between Krypton and Earth. Zod 100% did look at Superman as the hope for a new krypton.


> Superman who, through his actions, rejects that and proves he is here for humanity.

Again, this 100% happened. He put the rest of the kryptons in the phantom zone and killed Zod to save humans. There is no way to say he didnt just choose humanity over Krypton.


>Batman and Luthor project a person like you are, a god who does something for either his own sake or for no real reason at all and will turn on humanity eventually.

Again, 100% happened. Luthor and Batman both more or less flat out say these things at one point in the movie.


> But Superman, again through his actions (and his words when he shows Batman his first concern when dying is the life of an innocent human) shows that he isnt that, he just wants to save people because he is a man who just wants to do good and is driven by his loved ones.

Again, 100% happened in the movie. Superman does indeed use his dying breaths to plead for Batman to save someone. Superman does indeed save people at the end, sacrificing himself to do so, and was driven by his loved ones.

>>93297133
But it is, because elements from Secret Origin were used in the movie. The elements I just highlighted. Hell, even the part about explaining himself is used in the movie, they just twist it on his head and have Lex blow up his opportunity to explain himself to the world stage. The concept is still there, just utilized differently.

>>93297136
Yeah he goes back in time, but he still fucking killed Zod. And Donner didnt include the arrest scene in his version for a REASON anon, even he thinks its too silly.


Anyway, you getting so mad that Superman killed Zod when he has done it in two different other stories already is hilarious.

>>93297136
>its okay to kill people if you go back in time and undo it


Your kind of morals are scary and for sociopaths.

>>93297172
No, Lois was there with the understanding she would be safe and not harmed. Also I dont know if you have heard of the Geneva convention but it strictly prohibits harming non-combat personal in war zones. Jimmy was a CIA agent, an enemy combatant, his death was fair game.


Lois was innocent and it would be a war crime if they killed her. Superman regularly stops war crimes from happening, but he will not stop "legal" acts of war like killing a secret enemy spy that is violating your peace terms with a reporter.

>>93297274
>>93297286
He didn't use it because the time-traveling ending was originally intended to be the ending of 2, but eventually they decided to use it for 1

In case you didn't know, those movies were filmed back to back, hence why things mix so much. When he had the chance Donner simply edited 2 to resemble his original idea

Prove that he ever intended Supes to kill anybody instead of clinging on the fact that the scene was cut

>>93297172
>he thinks correspondents dying by accident or as causalities is the same thing as being executed by a warlord


You are so out of touch with reality and uneducated about international politics its almost painful. How do you even have the intelligence to type?

>>93297343
No one disagreed with you, but Donner didnt put it in his cut of Superman 2. So he didnt like the arrest ending and went with the time travel ending to. He didnt put it in the television version, ABC did.


>Prove that he ever intended Supes to kill anybody

Because in his version, HIS cut, he has Superman kill Zod and then go back in time and undo it.

And I'm going to echo what the other anon said.


you getting so mad that Superman killed Zod when he has done it in two different other stories already is hilarious.

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>>93293879
probably mind controlled into evil then snaps out of it

>>93297378
Of course
That's why the Flash-back scene in BvS
Lois was the key to stopping Supes, not Doomsday

>>93294284
>20 years later
>The capeshit movie bubble is finally going to burst. I've been saying this since Ms. Marvel but this time for serious!
>20 more years later
>The capeshit movie bubble is finally going to burst. I've been saying this since Squirrel Girl 3 but this time for serious!

>>93297375
I'm not mad he kills Zod in MoS, i disapprove of the contest, think they handled it awkwardly. The idea that he has to kill to realize he doesn't like it is baffling to me, the script didn't call for it, they should've built up to the decision like Begins did

>>93297378

too bad adams and cavill don't have any chemistry, if they had what gadot and pine did it'd have worked

>>93297473
yeah, Adams isn't bitchy/assertive/etc to be Lois IMO

>>93297494
Adams isn't anything period. She's just a plot machine

>>93297215
>Just watch the movie it happened in the movie, definitely
Anyone can say that about anything with this shit.

>>93297460
>the contest
What contest?

>The idea that he has to kill to realize he doesn't like it is baffling to me

Really? Thats your reading? Of course he knows he doesnt like killing. Its that Zod FORCED him to kill him and made the tough choice. And it emotionally wrecked him so hard he never ever wants to kill ever again.

Why does your mind boil it down to the most retarded version when everything on the screen points to something else?


>they should've built up to the decision


They do. They keep building up to it as Zod is hammering away this idea that he has to choose between Krypton and Earth. And then Zod forces him to choose.

>>93297515
Prove what I said happened didnt happen. And then prove that things happened in the movie that support your thesis.

Go on, I'll wait.

>>93297230
>the part about him explaining himself is used in the movie, he just doesn't because explosions
...Michael Bay is that you?

>>93297515
So are you saying that the other anon is wrong? That those things didnt happen? Because they sure as hell did.

>>93294024
I actually don't think he tried with Age of Ultron. The plot feels like a first draft that went without edits.

>>93297348
I have enough intelligence to not go to areas where I might get shot. Something Lois doesn't have.

>>93297515
>Anyone can say that about anything with this shit.


No not really. I can't say Superman dug a tunnel through Canada because that didnt happen in the movie.


You are so dumb.

>>93297520
Snyder literally said that, about learning the no-kill rule

>>93297543
Not an argument.

>>93297556
So according to you all reporters that go into warzones are dumb. Got it.


Also Lois was there with the understanding she would be safe, which CIA Jimmy fucked up.

>>93297556
>My cowardice means I'm smart!!!


AHAHAHAHAH kill yourself.

>>93297546
No. I'm saying there is no wrong.
Clark is enough of a bland and generic cipher that all interpretation is valid, and what's more, that's what the creators were going for in this take. A big pile of nothing that you can staple symbolism and meaning onto yourself.

That's why if you question it people accuse you of wanting spoonfeeding and all the "evidence" is just repeating "but he saved people!" over and over again. ALL SUPERHEROES SAVE PEOPLE. There's nothing in there that makes Clark unique or special or a distinct personality.

>>93297600
And thank god he was punished for it. Some people just don't deserve saving

>>93297607
I can't. I'm not one of Snyder's kids.

>>93297566
And you conflating "The idea that he has to kill to realize he doesn't like it" with a "no kill rule."

These are the not the same, and I think its where your thinking fails. I have never killed anyone and I know I dont like it. Superman knows he doesnt like killing someone. But that is different than being forced to and then deciding to never kill again.


I dont like fighting people, but sometimes I do it. On the other hand, I know an ex-cop who had to quit after killing someone. He knew going into the job he didnt want to kill anyone, but once he did he realized he can never put himself in that position again.
If you cant see the difference between setting up a rule for yourself and not liking something, I cant help you.

>>93297630
Superman never interferes in normal country v country warfare. Go read some comics pleb.

>>93297494
Yea the whole bit for Man of Steel being Lois is actively searching the world for this Mysterious Man (an odd story for a paper to let one of their top reporters to go chasing for months to years)

Always seems off and only reason to get her involved with the story since Clark doesn't really end up in Metropolis.

>>93297632
>taking pot shots at his suicidal kid

Damn dude, you are a fucking sociopath. No wonder you hate Superman so much.

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>>93293879
Doing this outta curiosity. Wanna see how most people feel on the DCEU.

>https://strawpoll.com/ca31zyb

>https://strawpoll.com/ccgd38d

>https://strawpoll.com/zg694g3

I'll post results too.

>>93297711
>n-no u!
now that's nostalgic

>>93297616
and I'm telling you there is wrong, in fact the movie goes to length to tell you that Batman and Luthor's ideas of Superman are wrong. That Zod's idea of Superman is wrong.
> all the "evidence" is just repeating "but he saved people!" over and over again

But i didnt say any of that in my post. Good job being a retard.


>There's nothing in there that makes Clark unique or special or a distinct personality.

But there is. He never stops trying to do the most possible good. That is Superman at his core my dude.

>>93297616
>ALL SUPERHEROES SAVE PEOPLE.

But they don't spend their entire life doing so, like Clark does. To other heroes it's a career choice made later in life, to Clark it's part of his life since childhood.

>>93297616
> all the "evidence" is just repeating "but he saved people!" over and over again.
>replying to a post that doesnt say that at all and actually brings up other stuff


Goddamn you are SO SO SO dumb.

>>93297728
How is that a no u? Its like you dont even understand English.

He just called you a sociopath.

>>93297714
>strawpole
>on a 4chan thread
>not even the topic but burried in the thread
>expecting any kind of reliable results


you are the dumbest one here.

>>93297736
Why?

>>93297735
>He chose not to let Zod nuke the planet! That means he's got character depth!
That's just "he saved people", bro. It's a foregone conclusion that he's not gonna let earth get terraformed; no superhero would. It's nothing.

>>93297819
Because he chose to.

>>93297849
>ignoring the rest of the post
>cherry picking

man you are pathetic.

>>93297760
>tell someone to kill themselves becaue they dislike a bad movie
>but if he makes a joke in response then HE'S the sociopath
that's very much a no u
but I can see why I need to spoonfeed that explanation.

>>93297853
Why?

>>93297849
I wasnt talking about the terraforming specifically, though that is part of it, but specifically when Zod forces him to choose between saving the family or killing him. Because its not just that he saved the planet, its the context in which he did it. He chose Earth over Krypton. He chose to be a savior. That is the point, the he is a guy trying to do the best things for earth because at every opportunity he chooses the option that aligns with that idea (or at least tries his best to).

>>93293879
>Injustice Supes
I a so OK with this.

>>93297883
I'm not even the same anon that told you to KYS you dolt. But people tell me to kill myself all the time on the internet and whatever. But taking pot shots at a kid that actually did kill themselves? Cold dude.

>>93297789
It doesn't really warrant its own thread and it is on the topic in that it is about our reactions to the upcoming film and the franchise itself.

That and why does it even bother you?

>>93297883
>insulting a child that actually killed themselves is the same thing as telling someone to kill themselves


AHAHAHAHAHAHAHA holy shit dude are you this autistic? Its like how pissing on a rock is okay, but pissing on a grave stone isnt. Jesus christ my dude, you should kill yourself, you would be better off.

>>93297867
The only other thing in the argument was Clark asking Bruce to save his mother (I see what you did there by the way) on his deathbed and that's just as much evidence that this Clark is inherently selfish. He cares about HIS mother, sure. Who doesn't?

>>93297921
>Not Ultraman
Why even bother

>>93297914
>He chose Earth over Krypton. He chose to be a savior.
And again I ask, what superhero wouldn't?
Clark's actions are generic superhero ones. Forgone conclusions that don't really reveal any depth of character.

>>93297902
You would have to ask Superman my dude. Superman has always just been good because he wants to be good and help people. Altruism at is finest.

see
>>93296836

"I do what I do because I was given a gift." He helps people because he can.

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>>93297974
DID SOMEBODY SAY ULTRAMAN!?

>>93297987
>You would have to ask Superman my dude.
I am. *This* Superman wouldn't answer. He just flies off.

>>93297955
No, that wasnt the argument at all, in fact you are focusing on something that was in a PARENTHESIS. If that isnt cherry picking I dont know what is. Let me repeat it for you, and this time ill take out that little tiny bit so you can really understand it.


>Batman and Luthor project a person like you are, a god who does something for either his own sake or for no real reason at all and will turn on humanity eventually.
> But Superman, again through his actions shows that he isnt that, he just wants to save people because he is a man who just wants to do good and is driven by his loved ones.


You seem to have a problem with Superman's character being "he wants to do good for the sake of doing good." Which is what the movie keeps getting at.

People are projecting all these ideas about WHY he is doing good or how fickle his goodness is, or even what his true purpose is, but he is just a guy trying to do good with his gifts. Thats it. And its shown time and time again by people projecting one purpose or idea onto him and him disproving it by just trying to do good things for humanity for the sake of good.

>>93294693
>https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MyVPh3Usrho

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8i7l6Mh6giE

Not even sure why people try to argue against this

>>93297984
Well he let his entire race of origin be doomed anon. Thats a big deal. No other superhero has had to make that kind of sacrifice to save the world in the movies yet.

>>93298052
>and will turn on humanity eventually.
>But Superman, again through his actions shows that he isnt that,
>>93293879
and then he does anyway

>>93297984
are you really asking why a superhero did a superhero thing? Really anon? Can you not see how it defines the character by having him do this heroic thing for humanity?

You are using out of universe knowledge "Well of course he chooses earth over krypton because he always does"


I could say the same thing about any hero.

"Well of course Captain America fights Red Skull, any hero would fight Red Skull!"

Its the journey to get there that defines the character. Superman had to doom his race of origin twice in a row to get to that point of saving the world.

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>>93293879
>Black suit Superman
>with cape

>>93298079
>Well he let his entire race of origin be doomed anon.
He's got no memories of it. No realistic reason to have attachment to it. So no, it's not a big deal. That's actually one of the things that bugs me so much about the past two movies. It took this long to get "earth is my world" when it's the only home he's ever known for thirty plus years. That's our STARTING point and it took two movies to solidify it.
>No other superhero has had to make that kind of sacrifice to save the world in the movies yet.
Steve Rogers sacrificed his life to save the world. He wakes up and everyone he knows is warped beyond recognition or flat out dead.
Thor was willing to give up any hope of returning to Asgard to save people from the destroyer.
Just recently Star-Lord killed his own father rather than let innocents die.
"He gave up something important to do the right thing" is again, standard.

>>93298051
You mean like he does here
>>93296622
>>93296626

Also this Superman did try to tell us, but Lex blew up his opportunity to tell the entire world at once.

>>93298139
>are you really asking why a superhero did a superhero thing? Really anon? Can you not see how it defines the character by having him do this heroic thing for humanity?
Why is Tony Stark a superhero?
>I wanna protect the people I put in harm's way
Why is Bruce Wayne a superhero?
>Muh parents are deaaaaaaaad
Why is Peter Parker a superhero?
>With great power must come great responsiblity
Why is Clark Kent a superhero?
>He just does.

>>93298155
>He's got no memories of it. No realistic reason to have attachment to it. So no, it's not a big deal.

Wut. Are you autistic? This sounds like something an autist would say. Do you seriously no understand why it would be hard to become the LAST of your race? Do you think that jews are completely indifferent to the holocaust because they werent there and have no memories of it? Are black people completely over slavery because they have no memories of it and it didnt happen to them personally?


And none of what you listed comes even CLOSE to dooming an ENTIRE SPECIES.


Its like you have no sympathy. By your logic it doesnt matter if endangered animals go extinct because we dont personally know them or have any direct connections to them.

>>93298155
>He's got no memories of it.

True, but he has spent most of his life searching for his roots. It's his legacy. Only for him having to abandon it for the sake of saving Earth.

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>>93293879
>/co/ then: DCEU is shit we want more colors and fun
>first JL teaser comes out
>/co/: It's awful. Too many quips!
>today grimdark Superman is reprised
>/co/: too dark! Zack Sny-I mean Joss Whedon is a hack!
What the fuck you want?

>>93298167
>>>93298051 (You)
>You mean like he does here
>>>93296622
>>>93296626
Now show me that scene in the movies, which are the actual media we're talking about. You can't, because it never happens. That's the point and it keeps going over your head.

You know what DOES happen in the movies? Jor-El tells him to be humanity's guiding light. So THAT'S the real reason he's doing it.

>>93298155
>spend your entire life looking for where you came from
>be so thrilled when you find your origins that you wear the symbol of your original home on your chest and engage with the entire world through the original clothing of your home
> and then immediately have to doom your origins to save your adopted home

yeah you are right, no attachment or emotional investment at all, nope.

>>93298083
Thats fan art you moron.

>>93298235
>Are black people completely over slavery because they have no memories of it and it didnt happen to them personally?
This is 4chan people regularly tell blacks to get over slavery here.
Also, Clark knows about Krypton for maybe a month out of 33 years of his life. The fact that it's even a chose between that and the earth that has sheltered and raised him for those 33 years makes him out to be flighty and the real sociopath.

>>93298289
Yeah and they'd NEVER be so retarded as to put Doomsday in the second DCEU movie right?

>>93294089
Jesus God that comic is cringy.

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>supes being angsty about krypton

>>93298349
Uh, sorry sweetie, comics only count if i can use them to justify Snyder's idiocy

>>93298205
Yes exactly. That is why Superman is the first and archetypal Superhero. He just does.

And ultimately those reasons listed dissolve into the "he just does" for each of those heroes
.
Hell, Peter Parker's motivation is basically the exact same thing as Superman's, except he had to let Uncle Ben die before he could realize it.


And Tony saves way more people than just those he put into harms way and Batman's motivation is just the catalyst for the same thing.

In the end, they all save people because its the right thing to do, they just had these experiences that made it clear that it was the right thing to do for them.

>>93298205
You just listed events that solidified "its the right thing to do" for the other heroes. I dont see the problem. Because Superman didnt have a traumatic experience that solidified his need to do good its less valid?

>>93298247
What? He is saving people way before he ever meets Jor-El. You are becoming incoherent.

>>93298349
This was from Byrne's reboot where Kryptonians were utter assholes and a sterile culture, Jor-el and Lara barely even interact and Superman was technically "born" only after landing on American soil because Byrne was so autistic he had to make him American citizen via birth. Oh, and Superman's first encounter with Jor-el's AI was hostile and alien, with him forcing Kryptonian knowledge to his brain.

>>93298247
>this anon just cant comprehend the idea of someone doing good things for the sake of good

I'm sorry you are a sociopath.

>>93298321
what? that doesnt have anything to do with anything? You are just bringing up non-relevant shit now. Good job looking like a fool.

>>93298388
>>93298349
>hurr durr context doesnt matter

see
>>93298462

>>93298462
>where Kryptonians were utter assholes and a sterile culture
Sound familiar?

>>93298503
Uh they werent sterile in MoS my dude, and Jor-El really loved his wife, and his first encounter with Clark is a really positive one.


Way to just cherry pick AND be retarded at the same time.

>>93298503
>>93298540
also Superman wasnt LITERALLY born when he came to earth in MoS like he was under Byrne.


God, your reaching to make a point is just so sad.

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>>93297136
>>93297044
>>93296934

Really, you couldn't even arrest Zod if you wanted to. Kryptonite isn't around yet during MoS, so nothing would work on him.

And if you just put him in the Phantom Zone he would break out. Rinse and repeat.

>>93298540
>>93298554
In MoS the Kryptonians genetically engineered all their babies and no one fucked, until Jor-El and Lara had Clark.
Obviously I'm not saying it's exactly the same but the movie definitely took from Byrne's run. Genesis chambers and all that shit.
And the pic posted here >>93298349 is pretty much exactly what Clark realizes in the movie. Krypton made him but it's in the past. They failed themselves, and Earth raised him. That's why he lets it go.

>>93294384
hes a randian so its par for the course

>>93297178
since i bought the bluray i've seen it 3 times. it's pretty rewatchable. the impact lessens but the movie is solid.

>>93298631
Yeah sure, but the context is all different. And that was posted as if it were a reason for him NOT to be sad about Krypton, but of course there was a reason to have sad. They are gone and he had a pretty cool father, which shows they at least had the potential to be good.

All I was trying to say was the context is different and he had every right to be sad about killing Krypton at first.

>>93295474
>No competition in theaters

>"Fucking pussy! Real shoppers go on Black Fridays!"

>>93298649
Proof?

>>93295006
>RT cucks

not even once

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>>93298692
Stay mad

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>>93298715

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>>93298715
>gadot in that pic
>"s-she's a honoary MCU girl guys!"
mouse cucks, i swear!

>>93298677

There's a difference between momentary sadness over what might've been and angsting over it as a major point in a movie.

>I'll cherish the memories Jor El and Lara gave me but only as curious memories of a life that could've been

Krypton is in the past and Superman is the Man of Tomorrow

>>93298743

She looks super jewish in this pic tbqh

>>93293879
does anyone really care bout DCEU version of superman?

>>93298743
>Thinks this is about the MCU
>with Logan, Lego Batman and WW in the pic

>>93298746
Its a major point at the end of the movie, because he is sad he just fucking killed someone and doomed his race. Idk why you people argue so hard against Superman being sad that he just took a life and doomed his people. Even if they were assholes mostly, he should still have sympathy. And they werent ALL assholes like in Byrne's run. Again. CONTEXT.

>>93298767
>Batman is the cash draw
>WW is the critics' darling
>Both lead the JL

No

>>93298774
Lego Batman gets a pass because of the "no one cares about Lego Batman" pisstake on that kimmel skit. Logan is still Marvel.

>>93298746
>hurr durr it borrows a few bits from Byrne's Krypton so SUPERMAN SHOULDNT BE SAD!!!!


Goddamn you autist, we get it, you feel no emotions for other people, but Superman is a better person that you.

>>93298746
>angst

I dont think you know what that word means.


Where is he being angsty about krypton?

>>93298799
Nigga, the real deal is that everybody are together to battle the evil that are the patethicaly bad Snyder movies.

>>93298836
>the real deal is that everybody are together to battle the evil that are the patethicaly bad Snyder movies.
>post affleck
idgi

>>93298746
Byrne's Superman didn't spend his life trying to find out where he came from like MoS Clark did. It was part of Byrne's agenda to make him entirely American hero. The context is very different. In MoS Clark finally meets the people he's been looking for, only to realize they're assholes and has to doom them to extinction. Byrne's Superman is literally "oh whatevs, it never mattered to me in the first place, which was part of DC's agenda to push the LAST son of Krypton angle and remove the dozens of silly spin offs that had accumulated over the years as they perceived them diluting the brand.

>>93294817
The difference is when Harry's wife dies, he keeps being a cop and even starts taking the jobs no one else wants. When Snyderman's girlfriend dies, he leads an army of demons to enslave the Earth. Think about that, the go-to antihero is more heroic, selfless, and innately good than Snyder's Superman.

>>93298810

>Goddamn you autist, we get it, you feel no emotions for other people,

dat leap though.

also Zod and company were genocidal maniacs.and the whole plot point of bring back krypton/kryptonians is dumb and if it was supposed to be some "Supes chooses between his two worlds" garbage it was badly conveyed and that's a stupid interpretation of Superman.

>>93298864

this is a good post that explains where you are coming from so even tho i disagree I at least can understand your POV.

>>93298864
>Byrne's Superman is literally "oh whatevs, it never mattered to me in the first place, which was part of DC's agenda to push the LAST son of Krypton angle and remove the dozens of silly spin offs that had accumulated over the years as they perceived them diluting the brand.
Never knew that. How many spinoffs are there and what did they do to Superman? Do you mean Supergirl/Krypto et al?

>>93298998

the Legion and Supergirl mainly

god byrne fucked the legion hard

>>93298998
>Do you mean Supergirl/Krypto et al?
Yeah. Zod, Supergirl, Krypto, Comet, Streaky, Power Girl, all of them.

>>93295006
>Obligatory "Rotten Tomatoes is only relevant when I say so!" post

>>93293995

That's the reason why the first Avengers made lots of money.

>>93298898
Nah it was fine, especially because he had that whole talk with his dad and the history lesson that showed him Krypton wasnt always bad.


You are just reaching really hard to prove a point that doesnt exist and its hilarious.

>>93298998
There literally were no Kryptonians alive beyond Superman. Krypto eventually was reintroduced as just a random small dog Bibbo adopts and names because he was a giant Sooperman fanboy. The inside joke being, iirc, that the dog was meant to be called Krypton but the engraved name tag for the collar only had room for Krypto.

Part of the no Superboy mandate meant it really fucked Legion's whole history, so Byrne did this really weird time pocket storyline with the Time Trapper that allowed A Superboy exist but not be tied to the main DC Earth Superman in a yway.

In order for the Zod gets executed storyline to work we literally had to go to a parallel Earth. It's also where the first post-CoIE Supergirl came from, she wasn't a Kryptonian at all, instead she was an artificial life form capable of shape changing and energy blasts. Power Girl went throgh plenty of convoluted retcons to explain her origins, at one point she was an Atlantean and kept bugging Aquaman with the fact.

>>93294608
How the hell do you define "plot device?"

Every character ever is a plot device.

>>93298344
But it's all true

>First ever live action JL movie on the big screen
>Superman is a bad guy

It just feels dirty

Also, this movie is going to be an abomination of Whedon's light heartedness and Snyder's edginess

This is going to suck

>>93293879

>Evil Superman

Really, REALLY not the time for this. Superman should come back when the League is at it's lowest point and hope looks lost

>>93300072
Wonder Woman is going to be retooled as the heart and soul of the Justice League
Superman is just going to be the edgy guy who Diana needs to remind all the time about what they're really fighting for

>>93300421

Well no more money from me if that shit happens

>>93300534
Too late
Wonder Woman is the only DCEU movie to really make it
So EVERYTHING is gonna be Wonder Woman
DC is going to Tony Stark the shit out of her

>>93294765

Oh thank Christ

Superman is supposed to be a shining beacon of hope, one so completely encompassing that people can't help but like him.

Real people don't like him, Snyder wasn't successful.

>>93293879
Holy shit, are they going to do Injustice? Is that why there was that Flash scene in BvS with "you were right about him" and "it's Lois Lane, she's the key".

>>93293879
http://furiousfanboys.com/2016/08/epic-superman-justice-league-fan-art-fools-internet/
http://ehnony.deviantart.com/art/Justice-League-Superman-628865702

>>93301032
>http://ehnony.deviantart.com/art/Justice-League-Superman-628865702

/endthread

>>93300558
Batman is their Tony Stark.

>>93301124
The way he acts and his role on the team, yes

But I'm talking about the breadwinner.
The character you shove everywhere to get people to like things

>>93301173
>But I'm talking about the breadwinner.
>The character you shove everywhere to get people to like things
Right. And that's Batman.
It's called the DCEU.
Not the SCEU.
Not the ACEU.

>>93301173
Batman's already the breadwinner
Suicide Squad, Bruce being the one to form the JL, making Barry's suit, being the bookends to and reason for WW's film

With WW's success they'll probably just both be breadwinners, a truly modern family in which the mom and dad bring home the bacon

>>93301211
>Right. And that's Batman.
Just you wait.

Batfleck is floundering.
Wonder Woman broke almost every possible record for DC.
Money, critical reception. Any way you cut it, they're going to look at Diana be like "We want more of her"

If Krypton had all this tech, with the codex and gene babies and what not, why didn't they just colonize another planet?

>>93301297
They tried.
And failed. For reasons

Earth is special for unspecified reasons