Hasn’t history proven that Marx’s vision of an egalitarian

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>>93264893
Dad?

>>93264893
Thats true, but that shouldnt be an excuse for hardlined capitalists to be assholes

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Hesh wants sex!

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>>93265184
Dad?

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Next door, jackass.

>>93264893
Yes, there's a reason his ideas are often called utopic socialism by later philosophers.
That said, >>93265174

Marx did a good job of examining capitalism's flaws, but his solution for it depended too much on people not being power hungry bastards.

>>93264893

Not yet.

I believe that abject poverty is a bad starting point for such a society, although Marx believed it would be the inevitable starting point ('verelendigung').

The tragedy of communism is that it's not very good, but it serves a reminder for capitalists elsewhere of what would happen to them if they get too greedy.

Without communism balance of power shifts too much to the rich.

Buddy there's like 20 different versions of communism atleast one of thems gotta work.

>>93265645
>this is what communists actually believe

>>93265662
Chinese captalism disguised as comunism sure works like a charm

>>93265662
Communists believe that their specific interpretation is right and everyone else is a revisionist/class traitor.

>>93264893
As much as it has been an hectic ride with back and forth, we have been getting closer to it and overall getting a better way of living. But it isn't a constant and smooth transition.

>>93264893
It's amusing to me that communists are still using the same fucking catch phrases from a century ago, despite communism at this point has a higher bodycount than capitalism.

>>93265758
>muh 60 billion

I came here expecting a Sealab thread, not a bunch of fucking pinkos.

>>93265184
HESH IS THE ONE THAT BECOMES THE ONE AS HESH IS THE ONE

VIS A VIS

HESH IS THE ONE AS HESH CHOOSES TO BE THE ONE

VIS A VIS

HESH BELIEVES BECAUSE HESH CHOOSES TO

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dumb orphan

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>>93264893
A world of meritocracy is best.

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>It's a "People don't recognize the universal call to a Sealab thread and actually argue about Communism" thread.

>>93265865
ANGRY AUTISTS INDEED!

>>93265856
Hasn't history proven that Hitler's idea of a meritocratic utopia is unattainable, inevitably creating an oligarchy based more on nepotism and political capital than actual expertise?

>>93265613
I don't know about that.
It's sort of equal parts helping out capitalists.
If Communism wasn't there all the Capitalist fatcats wouldn't be able to say "what would you rather have communism? ENJOY STARVING TO DEATH!"
The threat of revolt didn't materialize with communism but now it allows to present a false binary for a clearly worse alternative.

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Get your free ride here!

If antifa love communism so much, why are they afraid of Russia undermining control of the United States government?

>>93266014
Ever since Russia dropped communism and discovered the joys of jeans and track suits they never went back

>>93266014
They are butthurt about Russia because they ditched Communism/socialism/state-run meme market/totalitarian/authoritarian system.

>>93265329
Clearly, the only solution is omnicide.

>>93266014
Because Russia isn't Communist any more and nobody wants to be a vassal state, especially not for Russia of all places.

>>93265929
Better than communism. All people are not created equal. Those who are smarter, stronger and best suited for the task should be recognized. Race, sex and nationality be damned. If you are the best, then stand up.

>post a cartoon quote
>idiots of nu-/co/ immediately start talking about politics

>Think it's gonna be a sealab thread
>Legit Socialist pour in


rlly makes me ponder

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>>93266063
>If you are a nobleman's nephew or paid them thousands of dollars in gifts, then stand up.
Fixed that for you

>>93265174
actually socialist policies are what incentives that kind of shit in buisness
you open up a way for some buisnesses to get an unfair advantage by dealing with the goverment and look what happens, subcides for mcdonalds and sugary drinks, companies that become money sinks and spend three times their budget, etc
Thats how buisness operates, by nature they will take every single chance they get and exploit it to the max, thats what they are designed to do
Say whatever you want but before the depresion hit, before marketing tried to brainwash people and other shit companies competed by making a better or cheaper product, now you see people act like phone 7 is the second coming of christ and having phone 6 instead is reason enough to commit suicide.
Instead of all this retard shit you should try to educate people and i dont mean teach a niga to read, rich people need it too, learn to cook a propper meal, learn to have a meaningful life without the need for a pocket computer to tell you you are pretty every 5 minutes. Good luck getting anyone behind actual positive change that doesnt involve hurting someone tho

>>93265865
This show went downhill after his actor death, it would be better if they simply change the voice and keep the character

>>93265718
they have the gall to claim that the only reason other communism failed was that they werent the ones ruling it
and dont bullshit me, you can use a million words to say it but thats still what they are sayig
i dont belive any of you are better than the other comunist tyrants, you talk about fear? i actually fear comunism thats hell on earth, and you wont back down once its clear people are dying, you will keep escalating until there is colapse of society and war

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>>93266072
This exact thread has been made several times over the last year or so. If you look it up in the archives you can see the gradual decline of the board reflected with every subsequent thread.

>>93266046
>state-run meme market/totalitarian/authoritarian system.

But that part's still true. It's literally a country run by ex-KGB members and oligarchs.

>>93266102
Capitalism sprinkled with socialism actually works just fine. Look at many parts of west-europe and nordic europe.

>>93266178
like sweden?
thats fucking terrifying
as far as i know norway is naturally rich in resources
plus those are all tiny countries, tiny couuntries that remained pretty much culturally and demographically segregated until a couple decades ago
you cant use any of them as an example any more than you can point to some african tribe
alsso didnt one ofthem stop being socialist because it failed last year?

>>93266235
>you can't use an example of a successful first-world state implementing mildly socialist policies as a sign that America can implement them too because AMERICA HAS TOO MANY PEOPLE
I always forget that, for you Americans, conservatism is considered radical leftism.

>>93266157
>Over the last year or so
This exact style of thread has been around practically as long as the quote itself, I'm pretty sure it was one of the first threads I ever saw on /co/ fucking years ago. It's only been in the last couple of years where people take the quote seriously and actually start to debate shit. I blame the over-politicization of 4chan as a whole over the last few years.

>>93266308
But...isn't that a legitimate concern? Pointing out that America is a much larger much different country could totally shit up policies that work else where?

>>93265371
Didn't he think it would arise in a heavily developed, densely populated, relatively wealthy nation like Britain (where he and Engels did their studies), France, or his native Germany, as opposed to agrarian, conservative, impoverished Russia?

Also, as of the 19th century Britain especially had had a lengthy tradition of relative political liberalism, as opposed to Russia's autocracy.

>>93266308
america has more people more diversity and more wealth disparity
and a shit ton of more
you are being retareded, of course you cant equate them
here is an idea, a local community can subsist wthout organized goverment by letting their members regulate everything, lets try that country whide

>>93266085
It doesn't get more Sealab than that

>>93266354
of course it is
>hey lets try free health care
cost of building hospitals and hiring professionals in a tiny european country not so much
cost of providing that for 400 million people all of who need that right now?

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>>93266391

Because the current system is so cost-effective.

Single-Payer healthcare has been proven to work in every industrialized 1st world nation, and banging on about "BUT WE ARE BIG!!!" is just desperate.

>>93264893
No, because nobody has actually done it correctly.

>>93266443
But we're big.
And it's not like we're big by a small margin.

>>93266443
>Because the current system is so cost-effective
hey it keeps the country running
if you want better health care and education i agree lets implement socialist policies that better health care and education
but lets aim at making it better in a 50 year span not lets destroy everything and appropiate everything class warfare now because thats competelly retarded, thats asking for collapse
also i dont want it being used as a weapon ever, none of that well healthcare became affordable but only to the members of the party
big change in a big country takes a lot of time, if you want radical change go fight militia war in africa

>>93266443
I'm personally not against the concept of single-payer, but there was a bill proposed that only featured a board of Canadian physicians and a Harvard study as evidence that it would save the US hundreds of billions in cost if we opted for single-payer. It had little to no relative information of long-term effects of turning premiums into a tax. If that was the only evidence I had to jump into something major like this, I'd be reticent, too.

Also, that graph actually shows why the other guy is correct. These nations are 10x-30x smaller in population than the US, so of course the US is going to feel heavier effects from the cost of providing care. If anything it makes me wonder if state-provisioned healthcare options would be better.

>>93266014
Cause Russia isn't commie anymore ya dumb fuck, they're a kleptocracy.

>>93266063
Well, the Jews have shown they're good at financial matters, so then they should control the world's financial systems, butthurt skinheads be damned.

>>93266516
>socialist policies
These policies aren't even socialist. You can be right-leaning and still agree on these social programs. The real term people should be looking for when they suggest more social programs should be installed is "social democrat", and yes there's a difference between that and say, democratic socialist.

It's just weird seeing everyone only think they're socialist when they're not even close. I blame that retard Bernie for this.

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>>93266094
If they're genetically better then why not.
No one is made equal, everyone is born different.
to enforce equality is destructive and serve no purpose other than to coddle some untermensch's feelings.

>>93266584
>genetically better

Explain this.

>>93266635
Better than you by default

>>93266574
Blame republicans who needed an easy way to make everything progressives did seem evil.

>>93266638
But I'm white. How are you genetically superior to me?

>>93266574
>These policies aren't even socialist
those are socialist policies
wealth redistribution is socialism
problem with socialism is that as long as you live under capitalism you are going to have winners and losers and socialism says hey lets make life a little better for the losers wich is something everyone agrees with to some degree
but losers dont want to be losers and they dont want to or outright cant stop being losers
so they try to use socialism to become winners
Hey i should be able to get a million dolar education too and mine should be for free because im poor
i should be able to have a comfortable life while being part time waitress and taking care of both my children alone
i should get paid a minimum wage for doing nothing because i went to college and i couldnt find a job
ok but who is paying for all of this?

>>93264893
POWER VACUUM

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>>93266635
Watch the Movie Gattaca, now put yourself in a postion where you're not a genetically better child.
where you aren't as smart, as strong, as tough, as resilient to disease, and as mentally ill or physically ill as the other kids.

>>93266235
Sweden's economy is fine though. All of Sweden's current faults are a symptom of it's shitty obsession with identity politics, it's actual economic systems are fine.

>>93266676
woops as not mentally ill or physically ill as the other kids*

>>93266685
I think more non-swedes are obsessed about sweden's identity politics than actual swedens.

>>93266685
>Sweden's economy is fine though
arent them getting into some massive debt to support their migrants? last i checked 50% of all their tax collected money goes towards that and that isnt enough because they match that number in bank debt
old people get their pensions and programs taken away wich is unbelivably cruel to do to the people who worked all their life for the country
and there is job and housing crisis

>>93266534
>Well, the Jews have shown they're good at financial matters
Jews aren't good at financial matters so much as they're excellent at thinking on the fly. Long-term not so much. The typical Jewish businessman will be able to tell you what's happening in the stock market on a given day down to the wire, but ask him to plan four, five years in advance and you'll get a blank look.
Tl;Dr - You want Jewish accountants but you don't want them actually controlling anything or one day they'll run things into the ground and do a runner while everyone's rounding up the torches and pitchforks.

>>93266654
What are your opinions about the concept of a universal base income, given that automation is quickly erasing large job sectors and it necessarily peels from the bottom up? The transportation industry is the world's largest industry and when it inevitably shrinks a plethora of new jobs aren't going to crop up elsewhere.

>>93266647
>Blame republicans who needed an easy way to make everything progressives did seem evil.
How far back are we going here? Socialists in America were the ones causing the uproar about themselves in the 70's. In the modern day, Bernie thought Scandinavia was socialist. They are social democracies, though. Apolitical people don't understand the difference, but by bastardizing simple ideological definitions now people think they're objectively socialist when they don't even know what the MoP is.

>those are socialist policies
>wealth redistribution is socialism
No, it's not, you dumbass. Socialism is when you seize assets and means of production, so you can give them to the workers or the union operators. Some forms of socialism have leniency on this, like market socialists, for example. At the core, socialists basically take anything that manufactures and expects a market to magically not stagnate due to the qualms of the worker rather than the shareholders, the ones who actually invest money. These policies are not socialist. They are social, and they focus on taking care of people who can't take care of themselves, but it is not strictly socialist to believe in them or support them. You are not socialist for wanting these things while working under a form of capitalism.
>problem with socialism is that as long as you live under capitalism you are going to have winners and losers and socialism says hey lets make life a little better for the losers wich is something everyone agrees with to some degree
but losers dont want to be losers and they dont want to or outright cant stop being losers
??? How familiar are you with criticisms of both capitalism and socialism if you think this is a true statement?
>ok but who is paying for all of this?
That's sorta the dilemma that socialism has had openly, but it's incredibly watered down. The complexities usually come from their loss of representation of the people who voted them in, among a myriad of other things.

>>93266651
You have the weaker genes

>>93266734
The sad truth is that the welfare state cannot survive multiculturalism. There is a reason that modern liberalism was founded in the homogeneous states of northwest Europe rather than say, the Balkans.

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>>93266706
>>93266685
>>93266735
Swedens Economy is gonna belly up in 5 years or less, then all those "refugees" are gonna murder vikings in the streets.

>>93266734
>these leeches on society are disproportionally black
Actually the reality is the complete opposite, there's more white people on government aid then black people.

>>93266756
Whites don't have the inferior genes.

They just specced too much into compassion and have gotten fat and lazy off their successes. A sharp enough jolt and you'll wake the lion back up.

>>93266781
>I don't know what "disproportionally" means.

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>>93266735
And that's because none of the socio-capitalist systems Sweden and other parts of Europe have in place were EVER meant to support a large influx of refugees. Sweden's taken in something like 4% of it's former total population in refugees.

>>93266744
>What are your opinions about the concept of a universal base income
sounds great gimmy gimmy
wait, i am suppossed to pay for that how the hell am i suppossed to afford that?
i guess you can give people base income if then you use inflation so base income can afford you flour and eggs and nothing else
it will be a great couple months before inflation catches up tho

>>93266685
No, it's not. From the 1800's (I believe) to the 1970's, free-market capitalism and strict immigration were Sweden's major policies. To those who think this isn't true, they will say that social democrats took over the leadership during this time, so it must not have been free-market, but it was, because at the time they had been succeeding economically, 4th largest economy in the world at the time. Only around the 1970's did they begin to implement polity that would utilize the reserves that they had earned over time to produce more social programs. Now investments are scarce, and their economy dwindled to 14th largest soon afterward. Naturally, people are now more reliant on them, but their household debt and taxes have gone up to a staggering amount. With the inversion of their immigration policy, they will now be heading towards inflation problems, housing crises, and they will have more people relying on the welfare they provide.

>>93266792
You can still be white and have inferior genes
Why aren't you more like Arnold Swazzynigger anon

>>93266756
Are you white? I'm kinda assuming you are.

>>93266821
>No, it's not.
Yeah it is.

>>93266654
read
>>93266754

>>93266651
Do you have the skills, strength, and intelligence to rise in this world? If, yes. Good for you, keep going. If, no. Blame not one but yourself for your failure as a human.

I don't care if you are the son of a king, or heir to a great trust, if you suck at your job, get lost.

>>93266802
its pobably way more
plus having 4% of your population practically swim in money and swarm the biggest cities isnt such a good idea
do you know they actually sed the money back?, they literally go to sweden, get goverment money and send it back to somalia, thats crazy
thats not tryingt to adapt at all, why dont they use that money to learn english?

>>93266844
Okay, so how what does that have to do with "Aryans"-only Nazi Germany?

Meanwhile actual Aryans from India are as dark-skinned as Mexicans.

>>93266735
>arent them getting into some massive debt to support their migrants?
>last I checked 50% of all their tax money goes towards that
Where's the evidence then?

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>>93265929
>Nazi Germany discriminated based on race
>Jews, Gypsies, Slavs were declared inferior
>Created the pseudoscience of Deutsche Physik just to exclude the work of Jewish scientists including Albert Einstein even to the detriment of their own nuclear program

Totally meritocratic

>>93266837
i dont like your attitude at all
if you want me to read something try asking nicely

>>93266817
What else are you possibly going to do when the transportation industry begins to dry up and nothing takes its place in an economic system where people HAVE to have a job to live? You're looking at a distant job market crash caused by a super rapid reduction in the total number of jobs altogether, and no necessary resurgence of new jobs elsewhere. You're looking at a prospective unemployment rate higher than the great depression and no immediate way out given that those jobs are gone for good, they aren't coming back later. It's not as if they'll suddenly stop being automitized.

>>93266866
Were not talking about Aryans.
were talking about Humans that have great genetics.
Let's put an example
who would you rather have in your basketball team
a kid that's 5'11 or the other kid that's 6'2
obviously the latter
now who would you have as a science project partner
a kid that failed all his previous classes or the point dexter that made a remote controlled car for fun.

now some people are just born stronger/taller/smarter and other's not so much.
It's not about wealth, it's about being the best.

>>93266865
Cause they don't speak english in sweden.

>>93265929
>oligarchy based more on nepotism
>Natsoc
Literally 90% of all socialist states that have ever existed have had this problem.
>political capital
I mean, if you think his war economy counts, ok

>>93266781
US White Population: 63.7%
US Black population: 12.2%
63.7/12.2 = ~5.22, or 5 times as many whites as blacks.
Are there more than 5 times as many white people than black people on government aid? Because if otherwise, the black population is disproportionally represented in that group.

Same thing with violent crime rates, prison population, obesity rates, lower IQ rates, lack of language comprehension, and practically every other negative quality a population can have.

>>93266866
I said race, sex, and natinality be damned. If you have what it takes, good. If you don't, your shortcoming are on you and you alone. Meritocracy isn't pro-white, it is pro winner. There has, is, and will be winners and loser in life. Loser should not be coddle for losing, leave them to their self inflected oblivion.

>>93266917
I would rather have the kid that could ball.

>>93266929
Why are blacks doing fine in non-American countries?

Maybe you guys need to clean up your act in general.

>>93266929
>Are there more than 5 times as many white people than black people on government aid? Because if otherwise, the black population is disproportionally represented in that group.
No, there are more whites total on government aid, but it's not proportional to scale.

>>93266929
There is more white people on government aid then they're are black people.
>Your math actually proves my point.

>>93266676

Bad analogy. Meritocracy is based on performance. The society in the movie Gattaca was a genetic cast system. If you weren't genetically-modified, you were assigned jobs based on cast (genetically modified or natural birth). Pure meritocracy would never bother asking for genetics. It is the value that a person provides. IOW: can the person do the job and have the work ethic to actually utilize those skills for the customer and employer whether they work for someone or they are their own employer.

>>93266952
Depends on what countries you're talking about, and how they deal with ghettoization. The problem that some blacks face in America are actually self-created, though. Underrepresentation and improving poverty-stricken districts has always been a bipartisan issue, it has, but the problems generally come who they vote in. Though many blacks in America are very socially conservative, they vote with strictly identitarian politics. Unfortunately, this leads them to be exploitation by those who dry up jobs in ghettoes, which creates more gang members trying to get by, which means more gang members get caught, which means they pay more in bails and fines. It's an extortion racket, but instead of opting for a reform of the prison system, people just jingle BLM like keys in front of their face and think they're stopping the biggest racism epidemic that doesn't even exist.

>>93267006
>The problem that some blacks face in America are actually self-created
Yeah we created Slavery, Jim crow and racial segregation just for the fun of it.

>>93267006
>Underrepresentation and improving poverty-stricken districts has always been a bipartisan issue
No it hasn't, republicans do not give a shit about black people.

>>93267006
It's always shocked me that by every other metric American blacks are super conservative but vote overwhelmingly Deomcrat purely because of the "Conservatives are racist white old men" stereotype and welfare being such a central issue for poverty stricken demographics.

"Poor people have been voting Democrat for fifty years and they're still poor" -Charles Barkley

>>93267050
Well technically...

>>93266956
So you agree with me that leeches are disproportionally black and thus are wrongly called niggers despite not all of them or even a majority of them being black?
>>93266976
Actually... no. I looked it up (http://www.statisticbrain.com/welfare-statistics/) and it's much worse than I was expecting. Nearly 40% of the population on welfare is black- over 26.88 million- while the US black population is only 37.68 million. That's SEVENTY PERCENT of the black population being on some form of welfare.

>>93267035
No fucking shit those happened, but that is not what the topic of why blacks in modern America are being maligned and underrepresented. I didn't imply blacks created all their problems, but in the scope of the past two decades, these dilemmas are created by a city council that continually exploits people by not providing them with jobs at their utility.
>>93267050
No, they do. They just don't try to aim for ghettoes and city districts because they usually lose. And since the stereotype is that Republicans are racist, they'll never win the vote they desperately need out of these areas. That doesn't mean, though, that Republicans don't have racists in their folds, or just people who don't give a shit about them; it's just very clear that Democrats voted into these city positions are considered less racist for not achieving any of the policies they are voted in to do for those who are infringed.

>>93267073
What you gonna mention Lincoln? Not to sound ungrateful but what have republicans done for me lately?

>>93267111
>They just don't try to aim for ghettoes and city districts because they usually lose
Then they really don't give a shit about black people.

>>93266516
>but lets aim at making it better in a 50 year span
You know any long-term policies would never happen. Politicians don't get to pin it to their lapels, and the opposing party has a long time to undo whatever progress is made.

>>93267088
But you're discussing economic impact as a whole on the scale of the whole country. Gross statistics regarding demographic welfare are actually relevant you can't simply reduce everything to the proportion of their demographic populations.

If you had a single black person living in the United States and was on welfare it would mean that 100% of blacks are on welfare, but it would also be a complete farce to imply they're the problem and why the welfare state doesn't work.

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>>93267119
>GIBS GIBS GIBS GIBS GIBS

holy shit it's fucking true.
how about you stop being a handout nigger and work for something you EBT sliding coon.

t. Latino that actually works for a living.

>>93267160
How about republicans work for my interest to and get my vote.

>>93266894
i dont know, how do you solve poverty?
you wait it up, if you dont mess up it will eventually solve itself
welfare certainly doesnt solve poverty, it just creates more poverty wich is the opposite of solving poverty
>>93266919
every country in the west speaks english
plus they dont stay in sweden for long, english will help them when they burn their documents and tour europe
>>93267146
>You know any long-term policies would never happen
short term solutions are impossible
two wrongs dont make a right, people used to care about the future of their children but nobody has children anymore
fastest way to destroy the future, get rid of children

>>93267088
>So you agree with me that leeches are disproportionally black and thus are wrongly called niggers despite not all of them or even a majority of them being black?
I mean, I guess? Even if they're not a majority of those receiving aid, it's a blindspot that shouldn't go unnoticed. Just because it's "not all" or "not a majority" doesn't mean it's less of a problem, but you are still arguably correct.
>>93267139
You're a fucking retard. You have to spend heavy funding in a campaign, no matter how local, and the goal is to find people who are willing to have you as a representative. How do you do that with a group inculcated to think only a person who's black understands what blacks deal with? I just explained that blacks vote most commonly through identitarian means, whereas Asians and whites are relatively based on merits and goals of the candidate. There is no justifiable reason why Republicans should try and offensively push in neighborhoods that will NEVER vote them in; they simply are pushovers who allow Democrats to spin any narrative they want against them, and since they didn't pony up to how black voters respond first during the Civil Rights era, they will have to bear the stigma. That doesn't mean I think Republicans would be best for poverty-stricken minority neighborhoods, but the solutions for these people certainly aren't coming from Democrats that are being voted in every election.

>>93267119
no I mean technically American slavery wouldnt have happened if we didnt buy them off those Africans.

>>93267231
i give you a nickel if you paint my garage

>>93267155
The crux of my argument is that these numbers are bad (they're rookie numbers, we gotta pump them up) and how to solve them.

Unlike the migrants in Europe, who are moving there for handouts and are relatively recent additions to Europe's populations, black people in America have been here for many generations and have as much a right to exist here as white people do- we can't kick them out.

And despite having a smaller total effect on the nation, their effect is much greater than it should be. Thus, greater action should be taken to bring this group up to par with most of the rest of the nation before across the board solutions will actually help.

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WELL HELLO, CON SU MER
YES HELLO, CON SU MER

The problem is that victimization of blacks (and they are victims in several respects, but certainly not all of them and their most important socio-economic problems in their communities are self perpetuated) means that any implication that black communities have their own problems that need to be solved is that you're displacing blame (regardless of whether you're doing that accurately or not) onto people who already feel they're victims, immediately destroying any chance of them voting for you.

If you came and said "we're going to try and crack down on black-on-black homicide" all anyone would immediately jump at is that you're racist for daring suggest any black problem isn't the fault of white oppression.

>>93265865
This happens every time though. You should know this by now.

>>93267253
American Slacery wouldn't happen if the founding fathers addressed it as the evil it is.
They knew it was wrong and you can excuse it as economic necessity but 200 years of slavery is something that's hard to ignore in a nation's history.

>>93267339
>and they are victims in several respects
victims of who?
the people who want to live their lives and be happy?
or the people that radicalize them and fill their heads with defeatism and target the ones who make it to college based on their insecurities so they can waste their time with a stupid sign yelling in a library instead of being the change they want in the black community?

>>93266744

Where's the money going to come from? The state can't pay everyone to sit and do nothing.

Either automation has to be stopped, or nations are going to have to reduce population sizes. Any kind of long-term welfare payment is going to have to come with a "you don't get to have children" requirement until populations adjust to be in line with how many workers are actually needed.

>>93266792
>Poor immunity due to generations of living in sterile enviroment
>Too much sun gets you skin cancer
>Americlap diet and sedentary lifestyle increasing obesity-related diseases

>>93267393
It's not a who it's a what and the what is policies that negatively affect black america.

>>93267371
>but 200 years of slavery is something that's hard to ignore in a nation's history
everyone did that or something similar, you have 0 high ground
muslims commited so many crimes against humanity its fucking horryfying
plus they were already slaves in africa, its not like they catched them with big nets
also white pople ended slavery, except in africa, asia and the middle east, arent all cultures beautiful?

>>93267298
And the first (and probably the biggest) step towards that goal is to re-integrate 'problem' black populations into the rest of the nation. That means breaking up ghettos and ensuring that black children receive the same education alongside white children.

Will this break up black neighborhoods? Yes,
Will this involve moving a few poor black families to many white towns, likely souring their reputation at least at first? Yes.

But destroy the ghetto echo chamber, and the next generation of black Americans will be much closer, if not to par, with the rest of the nation.

>>93267406
>sex with a virgin will supposedly cure AIDS
>unable to process nutrient-rich dairy products past infant stage
>Implying that America's obesity epidemic is not only not overblown but also doesn't disproportionately affect blacks.

>>93266155
Is this a copypasta?

>>93267446
back in the 70s black people were doing a hell of a lot better
they had families
jobs
less crime
fucking more representation in movies
what side is the one who took all that away? the ones waging war on families, trying to get a free basic income and blaming everyone but criminals for crime?
if you want socialism you better manufacture some injustice first i guess

>>93267460
>Implying that I'm a nigger

>>93266770
Thank you for posting this Breitbart article at me. I will now buy InfoWars brand vitamins to get swole and protect myself from the scary Muslim people that will rise up any day now.

Annnyyyy second now

>>93267231
doesn't make it any less true.

>>93267453
not everyone had a history of slavery that large, they didn't have a massive war over it nor a visible population directly descended from it nor the near century of abuse after abolition.

>>93267160
Why the fuck would I vote for a political party if it actively works against my interests, you fucking idiot? I'm not gonna vote for a fucking Republican because they're going to ruin the education system and make it too expensive for my siblings to get through college, they're going to keep making healthcare too expensive so if I ever get sick I'll also go bankrupt, and they sell weapons to the Saudi Arabians and other terrorist enablers.

Of course, this also applies to the Democrats because they're so weak-willed and pathetic.

>>93267564
>not everyone had a history of slavery that large
The Muslims did, the Saharan slave trade was gargantuan. The difference is they castrated their slaves, so there aren't any descendants to cry for reparations.

>>93267524
>any day now
they've sorta been at it for a while

>>93267609

The trucks of peace and diversity fireworks are the fault of only a tiny minority, anon, no-one else is supporting, funding or enabling them, you know this.

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>>93267524
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_Islamist_terrorist_attacks

Lets not forget the Jihads they sprang across Europe, Asia, and Africa.
They've been doing it for a pretty long time.
they just really fucking suck at fighting Christian during that time, but they might have a bit of luck now since Europe is bending over backwards for them.

>>93267490
>back in the 70s black people were doing a hell of a lot better
No not really, Racism was still very much alive and crime rate was higher back then too.
>they had families
Sill have them
>they had jobs
Got those too, in fact we've broken some color barriers from then to now.
>less crime
Not even close to being true
>more representation in movies
That just show we've regressed and we've had 20 years of conservatives presidents since then.

>>93267564
you know what? if you want to end (slavery ptsd?) great, come upp with a reasonable list of demands and you get them but after that no more welfare, no more positive discrimination, no more bullshit, never again
you cant have equality if black people are going to go well your great great grandfather once saw a slave so you owe me
a lot of people voted for obama to end racism and finally feel like they qre equal to everyone else, they did it out of niceness, instead what the got in return was fuck white people non stop 24/7 everywhere and riots, you people dont deserve niceness you are fucking snake oil salesmen, you want people divided and fightingt because you are all destructive in nature and thats the climate in wich you thrive

>>93267643
a minority that is supported by a majority of them.
their end goal is Sharia Law in the West.
they'll do it by terrorism and population replacement.

for some reason the left supports them even though Muslims are no way compatible with LGBTQ and Feminist.

>>93267453
But they don't ignore it.america wants to forget Slavery ever happened so racism can't exist.

>>93267564
I'm actually struggling to think of a civilization anywhere in the history of the world that did not at some point engage in large-scale slavery. IIRC historically the vast majority of civilizations would have anywhere from 1/10th to as much as half of their populations engaging in slavery. At the outbreak of the Civil War the US population was roughly 13% slaves, not an especially large number in the historical scheme of things. For example, Rome's slave population would fluctuate anywhere from 25% to 40% of the population. It's not like this forgives the act of slavery in the US, but it's kind of silly to claim that the US had a particularly standout usage of it.

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>>93267609
Not really. And really, will the right wing be able to do anything to effectively deal with this imaginary Muslim problem? Genocide won't work because the other countries that aren't right wing will intervene, "voluntary deportation" is a meme that will just lead to genocide (see Palestine and Northern Ireland for good examples of how that shit ends up), and frankly most countries are too married to capitalism to ever deprive themselves of potential markets or workers by waging race war.

>>93267643
Actually, right-wing governments in the US and UK shovel tons of money to Saudi Arabia, who then shovels that money to Wahhabists, ISIS, and other lunatics who promote Islamism. Meanwhile, leftists like Sanders and Corbyn actively work against giving the Sauds money and arming progressive groups in Syria and Iraq, such as Rojava. Seems like people like Trump and May are the ones cucking the Europeans.

>>93267651
>Racism was still very much alive
racism is a meaningless word like i love you or i didnt want to hurt you, people who say use those words dont deserve my time
>and crime rate was higher
crime rate has been on decline for a very long time, it has more to do with the increase of estrogen than anything else
>still have them
momy who gets drunk and does drugs, granny and daddy goverment isnt a real family unit, black people suffer a lot because of the lack of black fathers
>got those too
so unemployment crisis in black comunities isnt a thing? great we can stop welfare
>thats how we have regressed
are you telling that millions of dolars spent in progressive movements and causes achieved absolutely nothing and was just a massive waste of money that only made life worse for everyone?

>>93267687
They want you to get over yourself and get a job so white men don't have to give you the money you give to your baby mama through child support Jamal.

They don't even want you to say thank you at this point. They just want you to shut the fuck up about how these white men paying for your subcultures existence and feeding your dad while he's in jail are oppressing you. Just shut the fuck up.

>>93265184
Hesh wants married sex!

>>93267687
>But they don't ignore it
completely wrong
china spends millions of dollars in fake news (yes fucking fakes news) trying to erase every trace of their past, the turkish people still dont aknowledge the armenian genocide.
If anything america has a punishment nd guilt fetish

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Imagine being so cucked that you think a society where a rich idiot can buy like 70 medieval castles and a fleet of luxury cars while hundreds of thousands of people starve or are homeless and you personally suffer through these effects because you think that you can win the lottery and somehow become a rich person too despite the odds of that being so low as to be meaningless.

>>93267710
I thought ISIS hated the Saudis and Wahabists?

>>93267753
The fact you had to go to the extreme and use Turkey and china as an example invalidates your emtire point.

>>93267830
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Finances_of_ISIL#Donations_by_Saudi_Arabia_and_Gulf_states

>>93267822
>while hundreds of thousands of people starve or are homeless
Communism is the same without the lottery

>>93264893
And the current economic system has created a hierarchy with rich getting richer and poor getting poorer. It's almost like going to either far side doesn't work out for the people as a whole. You need to apply more humanity to these types of things. they both artificially constructed things that we can easily change and say "FUCK YOU" to anyone that wants to change it to give themselves more power. Less businessmen in power and more people that actually think about things beyond profits. Like why are people who have little to no background in sciences put into positions of power in those areas in politics?

>>93267861
So that makes it ok?

>>93267710
>ignoring when Shillary and Barack played ball with the Saudis
The ideal solution is to leave the Mid East for the hellhole that it is, but the right and left both want to pretend the Saudis are our allies just because they're slightly one of the more sane factions there.

>>93267710
>right-wing

What exactly do you think Islam is?

Some liberal left ideology?

>>93267850
>america is the only place in the world were they dont aknowledge the horrible things they do
no it happens everywhere, plus america is the one who aknowledges the most
>nu-hu
yes, look at china and turkey
>no that doesnt count

>>93267111

I don't think Reps are generally racist.

Except every staunch Rep I know living in my area, or at least the ones who let people know, are pretty racist. Some are just open about it and some are subtle and like to frame their statements differently.

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>>93267861
Nah, Russians and Chinese were state capitalist dipshits who thought they could skip the Industrial Revolution and go straight to the end stage.

And really, even a move towards social democracy would bring greater prosperity to more people.

>>93267877
Do you think Barack and Hillary are by any means left wing by any measure other than a Fox News contributor's warped views on politics? Liberal=/=leftist

>>93267882
Aren't all religions inherently reactionary and right-leaning? In any case, leftism and its embrace of atheism would be a better cure for it than attempting to force Christianity on people (forced conversions always backfire) like the Christian right does or doing idiotic "every religion can co-exist!" shit like neoliberals do?

>>93267710
>And really, will the right wing be able to do anything to effectively deal with this imaginary Muslim problem?
Just because foreign aid and maintaining allies can ultimately have holes in the boat doesn't mean that other nations are intentionally fueling these problems. If that were the case, these majority-Muslim nations wouldn't be cooperating to end the charade. It also doesn't serve them to let transgressions go unnoticed if it only makes Islamists challenge them with ideas of reform and the toppling of the Muslim Brotherhood. If this really was their plan, they're only making people more disgusted to trade with Muslim countries

>Meanwhile, leftists like Sanders and Corbyn actively work against giving the Sauds money and arming progressive groups in Syria and Iraq, such as Rojava.
Whoa, left-wing populists getting riled up about this one issue will make all their other policies so much more sensible. It's almost like Islamists are right-wing or something. Everyone has criticized Saudi Arabia for this, but they're still an ally we can exploit, which is the smarter play instead of just disavowing them entirely. And the other reason they really don't like Saudi Arabia is because it has its hands in the oil market, which they don't want to be a part of at all, but they have no contingency to explain how we should just magically stop using oil.
Aiding the Kurds in the fight against Syrian extremists is fine (which is what we're doing right now), but Rojava will lose its state to Assad, or Russia. Democractic confederalism may barely work, but only in very small regions that can't defend themselves from easy landgrabs.

>>93267851
>>93267830
It's both. Officially the Saudis are against ISIS which is why Barack and Trump and Hillary back them, but there's evidence to suggest that parts of the government are giving money to ISIS because Saudi Arabia is a corrupt shit hole.

Moral of the story is that there is no "good side" in the mid-east. The whole place should be walled off from the rest of the world and left to rot.

>>93267865
>Like why are people who have little to no background in sciences put in power over these areas in politics

For the same reason you don't have lawyers doing heart surgery dumb ass. Law and science are two different things.

>>93267958
Nah, American imperialism is fundamentally stupid and flawed. We shouldn't need "military allies" in the middle east because there is no point to having military engagements in that region.

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>>93267963
>there is no "good side" in the mid-east
ahem

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>People re-litigating the 20th century, and early 21st century socialism again instead of discussing the show
UH OH

I was legitimately surprised when I found out Sealab 2021 was not completely original. I figured the original Sealab 2020 was just hypothetical.

>>93267710
>Imaginary muslim problem

It's gotten to the point where when someone talks about the terrorist attack in Europe you have to ask which one.

Do you really think its suddenly going to deescalate in Europe? Do you really think things aren't going to get worse?

>>93268037
Can people who watched 2021 even sit through the original?

>>93264893
Looking at history doesn't always help us make sense of the future. Marx's vision was conducted for instance in a literal era of peasantry where everyone was farmers and the sweatshops weren't global scale corporations. It doesn't really make much sense now but would have to be updated for a modern economy. Wouldn't that kind of utopia be more permissible in a post-scarcity society when we solve the energy crisis?

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>>93268053
Well, it certainly won't de-escalate with any of the proscribed right-wing or far-right prescriptions to this issue. It's so obvious that we should be funding groups like Rojava so that they can defeat ISIS, and withdraw all military operations from the Middle East and stop funding Israel and the Saudi Arabians.

>>93268000
>Nah, American imperialism is fundamentally stupid and flawed
Any kind of imperialism is flawed if you half-ass it, or if it only serves to produce more necessity for imperialism with intent (keyword: intent). There are modular externalities that constitute imperialist efforts, but most of the time they're not that justified. Was it justified to go in after 9/11? Now that we know what we know, not really, but it made more sense then than it does now, which is why I sorta agree with you but don't. I feel that the only way to go forward is to use allies as a buffer for conflicts to dry up in Syria and Afghanistan, then pull out of their affairs as time progresses, which is what seems to be happening now, given recent events. The one place I'm really concerned about escalating conflict is Yemen.

>>93267979
But these people put in charge have little to no understanding of the subject they're charge of. Like the old guy in the US put in charge of Internet security that compared the internet to a "series of tubes." It has nothing to do with them being right for a job, but being given the job for other reasons. Yeah, when it comes to writing up the legal jargen and fine tuning for laws you need lawyers, but for coming up with the laws themselves it should be someone with knowledge of the subject. Why should businessmen be the ones to dictate laws about pollution? They only care for profits and will try their damnedest to make them affect profits as little as possible at the cost of the environment.

Personally I think there's too much big business in politics and they need to be reigned in after being let loose for far too long. Cap CEO salaries and tax the shit out of them. Time for corporations to go back to working for the people and not a select few. Not go full communist where the workers own everything, but try and do something with controlling the greed in humans.

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>>93268115
There is no such thing as a good imperialism. Imperialism causes resentment in the subjugated citizenry and eventually this results in backlash against the citizenry of the imperialists. The only party who benefits are the wealthy, and they are so marginal a part of the population that it cannot be said that "Well, sure, more people in that country are sad now, but more of us are doing fine!"

>>93266063
Have you ever considered this is a false dilemma because being "Smarter" or "Stronger" are subjective domains of interpretation?
Smarter at what? Stronger and better suited at what? Sure you can be the best at Astrophysics, but are "smarter" than a neurologist or programmer? And are any of those qualified to lead a political office by people clearly "Smarter" than them because elected?

And what's strongest, a world martial artist? A heavy-weight champion Boxer? Top weight lifter?

There's no way to put things in simple black white terms like that.

>>93268093
>funding ANOTHER militaristic group in the Middle East
shiggy diggy
>>93268107
Holy spamming, Batman!

Also, what the fuck is Pod 6? Google search only has an urban dictionary definition from 6 years ago that sounds like it was written by a six year old.

>>93268160
You also have to tread the fine line between that and scaring the big companies away.

>>93268093
>Well, it certainly won't de-escalate with any of the proscribed right-wing or far-right prescriptions to this issue.
They've built a LIBERAL MOSQUE in Germany just recently. You don't need to be right-wing to know how stupid this idea is: it is fundamentally going to be bombing hotspot priority #1. And we're already funding Kurds, you retard. Rojava is not going to defeat ISIS on its own, it can barely defend itself against Assad's regime. You just want Rojava to turn into your utopian concept of leftism, when it can be taken over in a single offensive push.
I will say, though, I'd rather fund Rojava than do what the Turks say.

>>93266102
go away grampa

>>93268205
go away history im trying to repeat you

Great more politics. That's what I love about /co/

>>93268194
>what the fuck is pod 6
Sealab 2021 reference.

>>93268177
What about benevolent conquest? It's not like the ancient greeks and romans didn't build roads, give citizenship and civilization to the people they enslaved and conscripted into their armies. Those people didn't really resent them, they were clothed and fed and had a purpose because superior forces were offering them to join them and aid their strength.

Of course actual assimilation is a lot different than boot-and-heel subjugation obviously.

>>93268194
>Holy spamming, Batman!
>Also, what the fuck is Pod 6?
Talk about irony.

>>93268093
>Rojava
No you stupid nigger.

>Proscribed right-wing or far-right prescriptions

Trump's travel ban isn't taking them out back and shooting them in the head and cutting the migrant flow is going to save America. Europe has already pulled ahead of America in terms of migrant violence and as long as America learns from Europe and doesn't repeat their mistakes it should be good.

Europe is just fucked however. There's going to be a war in one or two generations and its going to be fucking brutal.

>>93267651

Are you arguing that the black family unit is more stable (ie: fewer single parent or otherwise broken households) today than decades ago?

>>93268003
>A country that turned into a shithead imperialist like every 19th century nation before them and is carrying the torch of Imperialism today
Naaah.

>>93265184
Hesh voice actor has some serious mental problems.

>>93267954

>Aren't all religions inherently reactionary and right-leaning?

You do know that there are more religions than just Christianity and Islam, right?

>>93268177
>There is no such thing as a good imperialism.
Yes, there is. You don't justify it philosophically, but in practical international affairs, every nation that develops a trading bloc is partial to these occurrences.
>posts USSR meme
Speaking of imperialism...
Go ask what happened to Spain's gold reserves. Go ask what happened to Angola, and what caused their civil war. You condemn imperialism in myopic terms then you admire Stalin bae for doing the same shit. Though, to be honest, they handled them so badly that it was bad imperialism.
>The only party who benefits are the wealthy
Literal retardation. It's like you think markets have never opened up and brought overwhelming prosperity because of objectively well-handled imperialist efforts. Ethically it will never be healthy to rely on, as I said, because it begins to try to feed itself for less utility, like an itch that needs to be scratched more, but when used appropriately it gets foreign markets and governments to further progress than anarkiddies and Commiecucks can possibly grasp.

>>93268177
Maybe first (direct, like the Romans) and second (colonies like Britain) wave imperialism sucks, but third wave imperialism (independent nations with trade/protection deals with their much larger and wealthier allies, as America has across the Pacific and Caribbean) seems to be pretty well liked by those that are protected by the US.

>>93268254
I'm arguring that it's not self-created, that it's entirely the result of right wing policies.

>>93264893
I used to think Africans were used as slaves through most of their history. That Egyptians used them as slaves, then ancient greeks during the period of slave market and lastly by American colonists.

But nobody used black slaves, simply because the slave market and almost the whole Eurasian market was done by ships. Most of the slave market was feed by pre-Russians shipping slavs. Then captured enemies and lastly the poor. Nobody wanted black slaves. The Egyptians saw the South Africans as animals and instead used arabs and jews. Only blacks enslaved other blacks without any policies. The only good thing that ever happened them was when colonialists found the cheapest, literal black market, slaves and shipped them to civilization. Where, for the first time, they had rights in a land where laws were barely uphold.

>>93268194
>what is pod 6

Look at the OP image you tard

>>93265959
It did allow a more soft releasing of power on part of a lot of business owners in the early 20th century. They saw that was going on in Russia and assumed that it was fully possible where they lived as well, since most countries had smaller communist movements shouting in the streets. So they agreed to things like shorter work days, paying for safety measures, and other various reforms that made up the 20th century workplace.

>>93268317

>that it's entirely the result of right wing policies.

Could you expand on that a bit? Which policies specifically?

>>93268293
>but when used appropriately
There's your little kicker you sly inauspicious dope.
It's never going to be used appropriately, not as long as neoliberalism is the norm and the system relies inherently on exploitation. Do you realistically think some shithole African "market" or government is benefiting when we drain and export their Magnesium reserves to make more shiny phones and planes to bomb them in case they realize they're being screwed over and should demand fair compensation?

What other anon was saying was the people who get rich are
>The corporation heads who fund the operations, whom 90% of the profits go to
>The corrupt governments who take from the coffers to allow it
Let's face reality here, it will never be healthy unless a set of rights extends to setting laws that completely disallow that kind of thing.

The 3rd world is literally worse off than they were decades ago right now. Which the rich are richer obviously, in some cases rich enough to own said countries entirely.

>>93268369
Reagan era drug crackdown, literally giving harsher sentences to crack(A drug usually used by inncer city black) as opposed to cocaine(A drug popular for the rich upper class)

>>93268406

Do you think that there are any left wing policies that might have had a similar effect of destabilizing the African American nuclear family unit?

>>93264893
I miss early AS

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>>93267954
How do you excactly progress into socialist utopia. For all I know, socialists just assume that socialist revolution magically makes everyone into enlightened alltruistic worker-ant and when that doesn't happen, mumble about "State capitalism" and "means of production being not owned by proletariat"

Maybe there is more to life than nihilistic, progress oriented ideology designed to turn humanity into a piece of sociological art, but really undoes itself in few generations because the ideology is simply hollow

>>93268436
I think there has been no greater destabilizing force on black families than the criminalization of the black man which comes from "Law and order" right wing policies.

>>93267339
The unfair treatment and systems of oppression that haunt blacks today have to be treated separate from the problem of self-destructive cultures within intercity black communities.

We should find a way to help black people.
It's easier to do that if you just ignore all the niggers.

>>93268542

That's a pretty good swerve, I commend you for it, even if I fundamentally disagree with the notion that the current state of the black family is the fault of one party over the other instead of both fucking things up repeatedly.

>>93268402
>Let's face reality here, it will never be healthy unless a set of rights extends to setting laws that completely disallow that kind of thing.
Potentially, you have a point, but that doesn't make forms of trade bloc imperialist gains some terrifying evil. It's a matter of dosage: too much of what you call medicine can become a poison. The disconnect that we have is with representatives who are not representing the people who vote them in, which leads to continued prioritization of what others potentially want to exploit. There are plenty of ways to prevent this disconnect and to reduce lobbying to negligible discrepancies. That doesn't mean: imperialism is always evil, or that capitalism sucks. If you really want capitalism to fuck off so badly anyway, you can literally just wait until automation takes half the jobs around the world.

>>93267160
HAhahah are you retarded?
A political party works for ME. That's how government works, they're supposed to be my representative and give me what I want.
The laws I want.
The benefits I want.
The tax system and health care and foreign trade deals and governing society as I want.

I'm not my parties slave, if they don't give me those or represent me why should I vote for them? That's their entire reason to exist, not be some self-serving power bloc like a corporation or something. I'm their goddamn shareholder here so they better listen to the people who put them in power.

>>93268334
>>93268230
Oh, okay. I don't actually watch cartoons. I'm just here for the /pol/ like I know a lot of people are.

>>93266952
Disdain for common American culture and assuming ti to be evil and specifically trying to NOT assimilate into society and remain as their own different counterculture.

Actually a lot of this began during segregation, but continued well after and is maintained segregating under the whole "white America is evil, do not ever emulate them" mindset which is incredibly limiting since nothing was ever really made as a replacement.

>>93266946
>leave them to their self inflected oblivion.
Exactly. If they don't like it then why weren't they just born more intelligent?

>>93268650
Go back

>>93268003
Seriously? Fuck, you're dumb

>>93267393
A big aspect of black American society is the core belief that there is a gigantic wealthy white American cabal who spends majority of its time plotting to keep all black people across the globe oppressed and poor. And this shadowy X-Files ish conspiracy runs deep and involves just about every other member of every other race you encounter on the street daily.

>>93267073
That was before the Southern Strategy.

>>93267453
>its not like they catched them with big nets
Strangely this is the narrative being taught these days

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>This thread is still up.
It's official, /co/ is too far gone to be saved.

>>93267710
>Actually, right-wing governments in the US and UK shovel tons of money to Saudi Arabia, who then shovels that money to Wahhabists, ISIS, and other lunatics who promote Islamism

Actually, you're full of shit. The Saudi government has been funding Syrian opposition to ISIS and, in turn, ISIS have attack Saudi Arabia.

https://www.theguardian.com/world/2016/jul/04/saudi-arabia-bombings-jeddah-medina-prophets-mosque-qatif

http://www.cnn.com/2014/09/14/world/meast/isis-coalition-nations/

http://www.nbcnews.com/storyline/isis-terror/isis-trying-topple-saudi-king-attack-mohammed-s-mosque-n614206

>>93268572
The easiest way to improve this disconnect is just more education honestly.

The worker in the Kenyan mine, nor the housemom who went to college and is buying the phone made from said supplies really understands the economic systems in play.

So when they go to the voting booth, neither really understands or is taking into consideration their interests on a grand scale outside superficial party lines. (Religion, abortion rights, taxs vs "Progressive" causes LGBT rights)

The elected leader in the 3rd world probably promises things like "I guarantee more Mine jobs and your jobs will be secure", not that he'll re-negotiate the details behind overseas deals so they won't be working for pennies.

>imperialism is always evil, or that capitalism sucks
Imperialism is generally pretty evil, it's rarely benevolent outside giving people shiny material things.
The problem here is that
>If you really want capitalism to fuck off so badly anyway, you can literally just wait until automation takes half the jobs around the world.
Is basically the ideology of socialism/communism. Realizing that everything is done by robots, so the means of production should be more fair towards the workers. Instead of better benefits from automation, the ownership reaps the spoils, lays off workers and leaves others to rot.

A world fully indebted in an unchanging capitalism would be horrible. It doesn't matter if we discover sentient robots to do 100% of the labor if corporations would rather just fire their entire workforce to reap 100% of the profits.

I'm not saying this in a naive "Capitalism is evil socialism is the solution!!111" sense but just that there are obviously problems and the "Matter of dosage" thing you're saying doesn't exist in our civilization with no restraint.

>>93268003
>A jewish state founded by a mass invasion of refugees, overwhelming the locals
>Terrorizing and stealing their lands by force
>State ideology based on racial superiority
>Leech on their big brother and constantly guilt trips the Germans
>Sells US secrets to China
>Will nuke both Europe and the M. East in the event that Israel has fallen
>Good

Truly our greatest ally.

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>>93268194
>what is Pod 6
>in a Sealab thread

>>93268990
Well they WERE propped up by the Imperialist British Empire. Like father like son and all that.

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>>93264893
Yes
But people are dumb and idealistic.
Boiled down to it's axiom is the notion
>What if nobody was an asshole?
A nice idea, but one that operates on ignoring basic human nature and the nature of power itself.

>>93264893
yeah the only way the human race will perfect itself is to replace itself with perfectly altruistic robots

>>93269079
>>What if nobody was an asshole?
>A nice idea, but one that operates on ignoring basic human nature and the nature of power itself.
This applies to capitalism as well.

Communism is like giving naive kids guns and hoping no one will get hurt.
Capitalism is like giving a Sociopath who wants to harvest your organs guns and expecting the first thing not to be everyone getting into the harvesting line.

>>93269088
Who then turn out to be murderous and ill-intended so they declare war on each other for being "more altruistic" and constantly replace each other still.

>>93269157
>>93269167
Cool stuff

>>93269156
>Communism is like giving naive kids guns and hoping no one will get hurt.

It's more like giving naive kids guns and telling them to go kill everyone you don't like.

Literally everyone behind any communist revolution have been some sort of burger butthurt about not being born in ruling/owning caste and telling proles to kill people so they can be the big people who tell people to do things.

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>>93269156
>Communism is like giving naive kids guns and hoping no one will get hurt.
>Capitalism is like giving a Sociopath who wants to harvest your organs guns and expecting the first thing not to be everyone getting into the harvesting line.

>>93269229
Damn didn't realise that someone was dropping concept art.

Sorry for continuing

>>93269400
>>93269414
>>93269437
>>93269459
You're the hero we need but don't deserve

>>93268883
How so? The discussion has strayed from straight up discussing an animated (cartoon) series to discussing something else. A "derailed" thread is nothing new; especially on any 4chan board.

>>93268107
I hate those jerks in pod 6!

>>93265856
Which is why we need socialism and the elimination of anti meritocratic capitalism.

>>93266654
>I haven't read a single page of Marx or Kropotkin or anyone really but here let me tell you why Socialism won't work.

>>93266085
So far it's been nothing but honest criticism of communism. Where are these "legit socialists" you speak of?

>>93269882
>all those socialisms that failed werent real socialism, socialism only work in fantasy books

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why the fuck has /pol raided literally everything on the internet. Jesus, you can't take two steps without seeing these assholes.

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>mfw I learned from a 4chan thread that my opinions on communism seem to be held by everyone.
seriously, you guys are more articulate than I am.

>>93267035

Are you still a slave? You must be a very hard working one if you have time to shitpost.

>>93269963
I think there was one posting upper at thread. You can recognize his post by the weird /pol/ memes crossed with art/slogans from communist propaganda art.

It's always the same. Thre's a thread that doesn't quite derail until this one socialist merz comes in and proceeds to educate everyone on why communism can work, how everyone who has claimed to be communist was actually a capitalist, or at least that capitalism is terribad because it isn't communism

>>93270234
As in, for or against it?

>>93270182
This isn't /pol/, this is how many people really feel deep down. The internet is a means of expressing this.

>>93267006
>>93267052
>don't be silly racism doesn't exist


mods, what the fuck is a blatantly political thread doing on the COMICS & CARTOONS board?

>>93270460

But it could work, anon, if only we were all ants, or bees, or some other kind of hive insect, and had no sense of self or individuality.

>>93267252
>and since they didn't pony up to how black voters respond first during the Civil Rights era, they will have to bear the stigma

You are genuinely dumb as shit.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Southern_strategy

>>93270182
Oh no, while this thread is quite political; it is by no means /pol/. If it were /pol/ over 2/3 of the posts would just be called others cucks, "go prep your wifes bull, don't talk to me or my wife's son, gas the kikes, stop the white genocide" ad homonym crap. SO far this thread has been quite a decent discussion and good-hearted bantz.

You'd take a eunuch like me?

oh cool a Sealab thr-

>>93270547
a little bit of both. Leaving the economy to be a zero sum game where a few big winners can dictate how the rest of the game works for everyone else is foolish. And at the same time it actively prevents progress because having dozens of so called entrepreneurs running in their own direction leaves the society being pulled in dozens of small directions. We will never get our act together to send people to mars because there isnt enough short term profit in it to encourage investment.
Capitalism doesnt really encourage innovation on its own, it encourages people to get entrenched in how things work RIGHT NOW and trying to prevent things from changing. Innovation requires making mistakes, capitalism forbids making mistakes because mistakes costs money. These are mutually exclusive goals. Some aspects of socialism at least keep enough money in the gov to throw at real innovation.

The way capitalism works right now in the US isnt a free market. Its a market dictated by a couple hundred of the richest elites in the country.

But. Capitalism syncs MUCH BETTER with the stated values in the constitution. Socialism does not sync very well at all as it seems like a dictatorial system where THE GUVAMENT tells us that our own money is not truly ours to do with. This isnt a statement against all taxes, just against high individual taxes. Taxing large wealthy institutions makes all the sense in the world because it prevents corporations from gathering enough power to attempt a corporate coup, which is what we're living with now under Trump.

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>>93270847
I didn't suggest anything of the sort that racism doesn't exist. I made it very clear that a myriad of problems affect minorities in America, but some of them are self-created. Quit reading only what your bias wants you to hear.

>>93270900
You are genuinely dumb as shit. I stated that because they did not try to win the attention of black voters, they suffered the future losses for it. You didn't even read what I said. I know about their failed strategy in the South and I agree, and I never said Republicans weren't racist at that time. I made it very clear that the Democrats are also not doing what these people in these poverty-stricken regions have been asking them to do for decades, but there's legitimately no reason for Republicans to challenge this blindspot if it will obviously result in a net loss overall.

Also, thanks for shitting the thread up with more driveby accusations when the thread was actually heading back toward Sealab art.

>>93264893
>buzzwords: the post

>>93269238
>>93269532
I never realized just how much technical details they put in this show

>>93272587
You really fucking haven't seen the show, have you.

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Nice thread, guys. Really proving pic related.

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If we're going to do this political discussion, we need to do it the Sealab 2021 way

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-RxD15HRViI

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>>93272695
desu this is pretty far from a proper /pol/ derailment. There's a bunch of nice Sealab art and the discussion is fairly amicable. Nobody's spamming cuck or good goy and the rest.

>>93273111
>>93271222
Exactly!

As well, I 'am regular Stormy.

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>>93272909

"Great to be back here on Atlantic Ridge Talk Radio, at KKFI 341.38, BIZARRO Stormy here, with you today folks. Don't mistake me for Stormy WATERS, totally different, opposite end of the spectrum Today I read that polls show there's a cultural divide between urban centers and rural areas. Now really, who needs a poll to tell them that? I mean, you can just look at an election map by county, and it's obvious, but if you watch any media, just go to a small town and then a large city, the differences are obvious. Lot's more socially liberal types in the city, more people of all sortsa skin color, and nobody owns a car. Can you imagine, one week without a car out in Osage County, Kansas? You'd get nowhere! That's just the basics, and if you asked anyone in America who's older than ten if there's a difference between cities and the country, they woulda told you what this poll shows. Really shoddy stuff, waste of time. And the difference has been around, at least in its present form for not a few years, not the past decade, not multiple decades, but really a century, maybe more, since the US became a really industrialized country. Before then it was all regional differences, but now it's just country versus city, all the same everywhere you go. Now is that a problem? You might as well ask if it's a problem we can get splinters, or if it's a problem we can stub our toes. Yeah it's a problem, but it's one you gotta deal with, and unless you bundle yourself up there's never gonna be a perfect connection between rural areas and the city"

>>93273767
"What's the matter with the GOP? I'll tell you what, it's the same as it always was, just nobody really knew how well it could do, as we saw in the past election. Captured the senate, the house, the presidency, and if the Grim Reaper cooperates, the Supreme Court too! We heard all this stuff before the election, folks: Demographics have changed, the GOP will never win again after Bush #2 (thank god we didn't choose his older brother), oh the country hates them for stopping the Democrats on healthcare! But ya know, none of that was true. We got a real outsider, a guy with energy, charisma, and he brought the people out, even switched voters from Obama back to the GOP. So we see there's no real fatal flaw, with either party despite what our friends say about the Dems, and the Dems say about us. It's all about getting out the vote, getting the base excited there's gonna be real work done. So what's the matter with the GOP, what can we do to really capitalize on our success? Well, I think throwing out any politician who just doesn't fly and replacing them with someone who's never been in politics is. Worked for the President, why wouldn't it work for a senate seat, or a Governorship, or even just a city mayor? Something for you businessmen, like the president, to consider"

>>93272465
>You didn't even read what I said. I know about their failed strategy in the South and I agree, and I never said Republicans weren't racist at that time.

Don't give me that shit. The phrase "didn't pony up to how black voters respond first during the Civil Rights era" makes it sound as if they were just bumbling idiots instead of willing agents.
And you're wrong about the CR era too. Look at the Civil Rights Act and the Voting Rights Act. Both had 80%+ Republicans voting for them. Better numbers than Dems, cause of the Dixiecrats. So they did "pony up" during the CR era. And when they lost to Kennedy Nixon invented the Southern Strategy, Reagan used it as well and it has its claws in the party even today.

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>>93274078
>Don't give me that shit. The phrase "didn't pony up to how black voters respond first during the Civil Rights era" makes it sound as if they were just bumbling idiots instead of willing agents.
>sounds like
So you INTERPRETED it that way? It can sound like whatever you want it to, but you'll just continue trying to delegitimize a point I never even made. You can just openly admit that you didn't read the post correctly and are now stalling, no one other than us cares anymore.
>Reagan used it as well and it has its claws in the party even today.
>claws in the party even today
If you mean, salty old white neocons, sure, whatever; no one's denying that. The GOP isn't just that anymore, though. It was always making attempts in the past two decades to earn minority voters. Even your wikipedia page you felt the need to pass around as gospel acknowledges this:

"In the mid-1990s, the Republican Party made major attempts to court African-American voters, believing that the strength of religious values within the African-American community and the growing number of affluent and middle-class African Americans would lead this group increasingly to support Republican candidates. In general, these efforts did not significantly increase African-American support for the Republican Party."

Your allegation doesn't match reality. They are clearly more interested than ever in courting minority voters, whether you think they represent them properly or not. My claim was that Republicans will continue to not gain black voter support even if they were to make a massive attempt at earning their trust, and you completely ignored that to grandstand about something you interpreted falsely.

Either post something relevant to Sealab or get over it.

I came in this thread hoping for people roleplaying sealab characters talking about politics and what I got was utter disappointment

>>93274642
>My claim was that Republicans will continue to not gain black voter support even if they were to make a massive attempt at earning their trust, and you completely ignored that to grandstand about something you interpreted falsely.

Your claim is wrong because you seem to think their token efforts that boil down to "pull up your pants and then start pullin yourself up by your bootstraps!" while passing laws that make it harder for them to vote and constantly fucking them up the ass is an effort worthy of the name.

They can't earn their trust because their whole ideology, economic and social, is centered on shitting on (among others) poor people and guess which communities have a large part of their members in that group?

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>>93275610
>They can't earn their trust because their whole ideology, economic and social, is centered on shitting on (among others) poor people and guess which communities have a large part of their members in that group?

In the fucking post you threw this retarded tantrum about, I said this:
"That doesn't mean I think Republicans would be best for poverty-stricken minority neighborhoods"

Are you actually going to keep making my point that you can't read? You didn't even post anything related to Sealab either. I guess you didn't read that line, too, fucking moron.

>>93275610
After Donald Trump it will be decades before the Republicans gain any major support from blacks.

At this point, I feel like if the Repiblicans ever nominated a black person, most blacks wouldn't vote for them because that candidate would be automatically seen as an Uncle Tom.

>>93276036
>In the fucking post you threw this retarded tantrum about, I said this:

You wrote one ass-covering sentence while the other sentences were condescending shit like this:
>blacks vote most commonly through identitarian means, whereas Asians and whites are relatively based on merits and goals of the candidate
>a group inculcated to think only a person who's black understands what blacks deal with

The subtext is pretty clear.

>>93276188
Or they'd listen to them and realize all they're offering are the same trickle-down voodoo economics that every single one of the Rs is pushing.

>>93276188
>After Donald Trump it will be decades before the Republicans gain any major support from blacks.
Why? Trump gained substantially more of the black vote than the Republicans did during Obeme's reign, IIRC.

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>>93276234
>You wrote one ass-covering sentence while the other sentences were condescending shit like this:
How is it ass-covering? Your whole criticism has been completely subjective and debunked. You clearly don't accept generalizations as theorems yet to be disproven, you just think they're false. I don't understand why. Just because I didn't say the magic words the way you wanted, it's my fault you took it out of context?

Those statements also TEND to be true. Blacks generally vote based off identity, and you can hate the generalization, but it doesn't make it less true; any pollster can differentiate how they will vote when given a black and white candidate in their own party. If the races were switched, the opposite tends to occur; hence why your point is erroneous. I wasn't diminishing how they are as voters either, it's just an acknowledged classification of how THEY TEND to respond. It's not a divine 100% truth either, it's a generalization. Same goes for when I said group: there is a group within black people that vote this way, but you're acting as if talking about this pattern is wrong because, why? The group is black? The evidence is clear if you look at the electoral map 8 years ago (Obama v. Hillary) and compare it to now, or if you just dunk your head in a few polls, or how about we look at the people in charge of heavily populated cities like Detroit, or Baltimore?And as I said before, the Republicans not only went with the Southern Strategy but they had to take the stigma that it bear. We don't even disagree on this, nor am I coming to the rescue of the GOP. But I understand, you lack basic reading comprehension.

You've completely forgotten what your point even is anymore. It went from "I don't agree with your interpretation of what caused this divide between R's and minorities" to "why didn't you read the script and repeat it verbatim". I don't think voting groups are monoliths, but clearly you're projecting that behavior of your own onto me.

>>93276465
>Why? Trump gained substantially more of the black vote than the Republicans did during Obeme's reign, IIRC.
It's a 2% increase from 2012 (6%->8%), not exactly "substantial". And keep in mind that 11% of black people voted for Bush in 2004. So his bump might just be the result of there not being a black person on the ballot, the dem nominee being the 2nd most unpopular pres. candidate ever (1st being Trump himself) and lower voter turnout (by only 0.2% from 2012, but by 3.6% from 2008).

>>93272909
Well, this holds up pretty well.

>>93266102
>now you see people act like phone 7 is the second coming of christ and having phone 6 instead is reason enough to commit suicide.

>tfw last year you upgraded from a Galaxy S3 to some LG phone you don't even know the model name of

If I can browse the internet and use chat apps and shit like that, what else do I need? It's not like phone games are good enough to make me want the latest hardware.

Also the only reason I upgraded my S3 was it completely stopped turning on after a while.

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>>93276627

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>>93265865
>tfw i haven't even seen sealab and only opened the thread because at this stage i recognize what it signifies but wanted to indulge my masochism by reading people who know nothing about politics misinterpret it and de-rail a thread about a show they also haven't seen.
The world would literally be a better place if a nuclear war had occurred in 1983.