So I finally read this It's kind of sad that no one on

>>93228639
>In any case, he is a stupid robot. But this was a good series, especially the second volume. Shame Waid is doing nothing good with Viv.
Viv deserves something better than Champions

>>93228639
Vision just wanted a family. He didn't even design around the idea of the 50's. This was just a standard family with a stay at home wife and a couple of kids. Those still exist.
The sad part was that during this time he had erased his emotions so he seems really cold and detached from everyone. He couldn't even enjoy the family he had longed for.

If this was modern marvel. The son would be trans, the daughter Gay & on drugs, the mom is cheating on him.

>>93228728
You're an idiot.

>>93228728
...It IS modern Marvel. It was only published two years ago.

>>93228728
Imagine being this stupid.

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>>93228698
Yeah, but despite what /a/ thinks, a girl who you custom crafted to suit your needs kind of goes against the typical notion of romantic companionship

It's actually sad, during the Wanda flashbacks their relationship fell apart more due to the fact that they are Marvel characters and thus their lives are filled with incredible stupidity than due to any actual problems between the two of them.

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No one's storytimed the DX yet, so might as well give it a go.

Includes issues 1 and 2, plus concept art, the original pitch, script, and breakdowns of layouts/art process.

>>93228887
Thanks, Norrin. You're good, man.

>>93228885
>girl who you custom crafted to suit your needs
That's only half right. She's based on his original love's brainwaves. He was hoping to regain that spark which he had lost. That in addition to how well Wanda and Wonderman had gotten on with each other. It seemed to be a viable relationship until its very cornerstone destroyed everything.

>>93228639
>robot

Anyone else dissapointed we never got to see Visions qt daughter go on a date?

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>>93229054
Don't worry anon. Waid is making Viv a lesbian.

>>93228639
http://www.cbr.com/the-vision-tom-king-gabriel-hernandez-walta-marvel-comics-directors-cut-viv-vision-virginia-vision-vin-vision/

>“The biggest change along the way was probably the inclusion of Victor Mancha. Originally, this was supposed to be the Golden Age Human Torch, who is sort of Vision’s step-father/uncle and would’ve played a more grandfather-like role,” the writer revealed.
>“Sadly, due to stuff in other books, Human Torch became unavailable, and Wil Moss, our editor, suggested Victor. This worked out better in the end than my original plan. Sometimes, comics are improvisation. Or I should say: Sometimes, the best parts of comics are improvised.”

Do you think Vision would've been better with the inclusion of the Human Torch instead of Victor?

>>93229103
Either way a minor fan favorite becomes a junkie.

>>93228639
One of King's best. You read Omega Men, also by him? Has some of Vision's same beats, the symmetry and almost Greek sense of tragedy in it all.

>>93228639
As >>93228698 said, Vision wanted a family, the classic perfect American family. The 50's sitcom thing is only in the covers: think the artist wanted to contrast the appearance of a cartoonishly typical family with the reality of the fucked up shit going on in the book.

>>93228887
Thanks for the storytime, Norrin.

>>93229265
such a great last page

>>93229321
one of my favourite pages

>>93228950
"Behold George and Nora" is still one of my favorite captions.

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>>93229374
It's a good one.

Walta is still selling pages, yknow.

>>93229102
Viv seems to have a thing for large boobs

How many of you figured out that the story itself is an immigration allegory and a critique on America values and American society?
I actually want to write an in depth essay kind of thing breaking down all the subtexts and implications and what not, maybe I will get to it someday.

>>93229102
So stupid. Ignore the fact that she had the crush on a guy, Viv is actually lesbian because I guess the Champions didn't have a LGBT representation?

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>>93228905

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>>93228912

>>93229102
Wait really?

Last I remember was Chulk "kissing" her. Drawn like he was eating her face.

>>93229573
I saw its themes going more for a normality vs abnormality axis. Definitely possible I'm misremembering, though. Don't have a great memory.

I'm curious, how'd you get to that interpretation?

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>>93229650

>>93228778
>>93228788
>>93228807
imagine being this triggered

>>93229637
good thing that they expanded that family tree, the original sketch seemed a bit empty

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Behold.
https://youtu.be/VlzZBBivGQY

A Strip Panel Naked covering both these issues.

>>93228639
Vision is based off of Simons brain not Pym/ultron. Vision has wanted a family almost from inseption. Combine that with Simon wanting a normal life you have this version of Vision

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>>93229279

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>>93229722
It was later the basis of issue 10's cover.
Might have been cool having a small tree earlier, then have it expanded in a later cover.

Still works very well as it does appear.

>>93228639
Didnt this end with vision trying to repair his son or something?

Whatever happened to that?

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>>93228933

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>>93228950

>>93229103
That is really interesting...

As a runaways fan i don't like fucking up Victor but it does make sense to use him over Human torch. It makes THIS story better.

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>>93228950
>>93229824

>>93229677
>I'm curious, how'd you get to that interpretation?
Well there's lots of stuff that can easily be categorized as racism but the use of Shakespeare'sMerchant of Venice really sealed the deal. In Merchant of Venice the Jew character is stereotyped and demonized but the modern interpretation of the text is that he was treated unjustly and was the real victim and Shakespeare might have been going for a very subtle social commentary, this same interpretation is vocalized by one of Vision's kids. It's really easy to draw parallels from there.

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>>93228962

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>>93228987

>>93229103

As far as I'm concerned, >>93229833 gets it right: continuity should serve the stories, not the other way around. And the og Human Torch wouldn't work as well as Victor.

>>93229854
yeah, that makes sense

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>>93229005

>>93229811
I think that was Virginia. I might be wrong, though. Considering the fact that he sings the song that she used to sing/play on the piano, it makes it more likely

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>>93229005
>>93229890

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>>93229023

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>>93229071

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>>93229088

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>>93229088
.

>>93229573
The story is very dimensional and is an alegory for many things. I could write essays on
>immigration
>hanging onto failed marriages
>greek tragedy
>individualiam
>family disconnection

And any number of things.

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>>93229102

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>>93229115

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>>93229122

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>>93229143

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>>93229160

>>93229189
The fact the 50's were an era of paranoia, casual bigotry and horrible shit going on just under the surface also plays a role.

>>93229876
>yeah, that makes sense
Right? Also if you re read it or maybe parse through, think about Vic's existential crisis, it's more social than universal pondering of why I'm created and what I should do.

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>>93229160
.

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>>93229174

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>>93229186

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>>93229202

>>93229982
Definitely, Greek tragedy in their purpose were a lot of the time not just character study but also social commentary. I think in the same way Vision is both character study and social commentary.

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>>93229218

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>>93229232

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>>93229240

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>>93229265

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Thanks for reading. Support you local comic shop.

>>93230139
Omega men was this as well. Much more a space opera that used greek tragedies to frame it but King likes his Greeks /lit/.

I should read more of that stuff. I really like Eurepedis (phone spelling will fail me here)

>>93228996
it's kind of creepy using your ex-wife's brainwaves to make your current wife though. That said, Vision would make a good villain.

>>93230243
I would say read some stories in basic forms but if you want to go deep, read Aristotle's Poetics where he breaks down the structure of tragic narrative in Dramatic Theory, then read Shakespeare as his stories are somewhat an interpretation of Aristotle's theory and then finally read Freytag.

>>93229824
George and Nora,
>but suddenly George and Martha

>>93230346
>Freytag
I will give that a shot but i really dislike Aristotle and Shakespeare. I dislike Aristotle because there is no way he didn't know he was wrong on so many levels, rather he should have known. But he let his ideology lead his arguements where as Socrates broke down arguements before doing anything Aristotle just built them from belief. Fucking tragedy that he destroyed criical thinking so badly.

I just dislike Shakespeare writing. No real reason, just think it's overrated and that there are far better works of fiction today than his his stuff.

>>93229573
That is you viewing it through modern political lenses>>93229587

>>93228639
As he said to Wanda, "I want to be like them."

>>93230215
I wish i had a local comic shop. Mine closed. (Atomic) This is the only place I can read them now. Good Storytime though, tyvm.

>>93230526
I think reading Freytag is useless if you are not reading Aristotle and Shakespeare since he is breaking down their structure as well. Also Dramatic Theory really doesn't have much to do with Aristotle's other intrusive philosophy rather it's him talking about Greek literature. He's just explaining the structure of the Greek writing and what makes it work, defining character archetypes, tragic irony, hubris, catharsis and all that.
>>93230613
I don't understand? The book is certainly meant to be interpreted that way, it's not really a simplistic narrative per session. And considering King's track record I don't think you could say I'm off base.

>>93229573
>>93229677
>>93229854
>>93229982
>>93230139
>>93230243
>>93230346

Can we keep the slow wank going? Tell us more about the overt references to Shakespeare and Greek tragedy that you had to break a sweat digging up!

>>93228887
Bumping for quality storytimes that are saving /co/ from the cancer that are company wars and /tv/ inspired threads.

Thank you Nor

>>93231187
>He's just explaining the structure of the Greek writing and what makes it work, defining character archetypes, tragic irony, hubris, catharsis and all that.
Ah ok. There is better modern works on that. So i guess I'm not missing anything.

>>93231250
How about how he did tragic horror so well in the kids death?

Every panel was a step towards inevitability. It played like a song and had an amazing beat

>>93231985
I know and when the dog died I almost got a boner from the tragic elements at play.

Thanks for the storytime kind anon, going to order all I can when I get my next check

>>93231250
>Tell us more about the overt references to Shakespeare and Greek tragedy that you had to break a sweat digging up!
I think only thing that I would consider "breaking a sweat over" would be to contextualize book through the lense of Aristotle's and Freytag's interpretation and understanding of tragic narrative, more accurately to pin down where origin, exposition, incentive moment, desis, peripeteia, catastrophe, catharsis etc. are as well as how the story's character relate or draw parallels to tragic narrative archetypes of the old. Even that I don't think is that difficult to interpret if you are aware somewhat about the structure of tragic narrative.
I think the book is very simple when it comes to various things it shows but the narrative is employing variety of storytelling techniques and forming a layered metanarrative that's both simple to grasp yet rewarding if you understand the complexities.

>>93232169
I have it all if floppies but this will be one of those few i buy in multiple formats.

The other is Kabuki

>>93232235
Do you come all over yourself every time turn the page and see a nine panel grid?

>>93232414
Personally i dislike too structured gridwork. I like abstract art and a more free/poetic type of storytelling. But there are those few writers that use it like a tool and to great effect. King is one of the few

>>93231985
Aristotle's theories are really quite important in drama. A lot of the greats, Ibsen and Miller, for example, based many of their pieces of the guidelines he set.

>>93232414
Not particularly and I don't even think the book really is structured around the 3x3 grid, it's very loose with the panel structure. Although the artwork really illustrates power dynamic through positioning within panels, both when it's formally and loosely structured, I guess that's to be expected in any good visual artwork.
>>93232830
Even if someone doesn't want to read first hand text, there are a lot of great newer text that analyze his theories and add more refinement.

>>93229691
>hehe durr
>wrong, idiot
>hehe durr

>>93233151
How did you come up with the Merchant of Venice connection? You must have gone to school for a while.

>>93233467
Contextualizing intertextual intention is very basic stuff whenever analyzing a text.

>>93228639
>It's kind of sad that no one on the Avengers ever sat Vision down and explained to him whatever sad ideal of 1950s suburban happiness he was chasing was a load of bullshit

Who could call him out on it though? Most of them haven't even been in a stable relationship in years much less got married and had kids. It's like a blind man being a backseat driver.

>>93233844
Most of us just call it reading what's directly in front of you.

>>93234005
Reading text is one thing, figuring out the intent is another. I really don't recognize what your point is, if you've made it thus far.

>>93228639
>especially the second volume
I found the second half very lackluster

>>93234072
That the allusion you are patting yourself on the back for discussing is in the text in flashing neon lights.

>>93234509
Everything stems from the text, finding out the intent of the text is figuring out various complexities the text may hold. This how we analyze the themes and the message. I still don't know what the point of what you are trying to argue is.

>>93234710
That you are jerking yourself off over a poorly written book because it has some middle school allusions crowbarred in.

>>93235377
Ignore him. It's just one guy on every thread who thinks King's Vision is a Greek tragedy with his non existential character work.

>>93235377
Should we rather jerk over Miracleman or maybe Asterios Polyp? Are they at least first year of University level?

>>93228728
The daughter is gay in Champions.

>>93232236
I'm waiting on Absolute Omega Men.

>>93237784
Why do people like Omega Men so much?

>>93238029
it's well paced, the universe feels lived in, the characters are believable in their motivation, and the ethical dilemmas they face don't have easy answers. It helps that it ends incredibly strongly, as well.

>>93238212
>the ethical dilemmas they face don't have easy answers
The needs of the many outweigh the needs of the few. That stellarium be important, mate.

>>93238321
Are you done shitposting about Vision? If we talk about Grayson, would you shitpost about it too?

>>93228728
It's not even a fucking year old.

What amazes me is he managed to write a story involving seeing the future and somehow convinced the editors to let him write his own thing instead of tying it into civil war 2.

>>93228639
Fuck off degenerate scum.
Perhaps the ideal family for you is a single mother raising a halfbreed trans who cuts itself and a daughter that has fucked everything that moves since 14, but despite your post modern Marxist brainwashing, there is nothing wrong with traditional family structure and in fact they are superior to producing something other than the other shit you became.

Sort yourself out.

>>93228639
Just read the first issue since i keep seeing this shit everywhere.

Fuck, that was good. Also, his wife's hot.

>>93228639
Is there a 1950's Vision family comic?

>>93229782
I'm glad they added hair

>>93230052
>The fact the 50's were an era of paranoia, casual bigotry and horrible shit going on just under the surface also plays a role.

I guarantee all of these things have gotten worse, all because marxist cunts you thought it was a good idea to "deconstruct" everything.

GEnuinely one of the best things Marvel's put out in years. I do wonder though, the series was originally conceived as an on-going, but even from the start, it feels like a it was always going to be a limited series. I wonder where it would've gone if it'd kept going.

>>93228950
Robots fucking love cookies, George.

>>93240474
Just did the same and finished reading it.
Viv seems like a really good character. Hope we see a lot more of her in the future.

>>93228639
Do you know what song this entire run reminds me of? A song by the Neighbourhood.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=khAShWJJxgA

But yeah, I agree OP, this run was good. It was a good deconstruction of the old idea of the 'nuclear family', examining the problems with the dynamic, rather than point out the evolution of society's norms. The effort that was put into it was also absolutely fucking incredible.

It's why I really enjoy of King's work on Batman. King is taking ideas from the core concepts of the lore, regarding the character and his villains, then adding his own take on it. My favorite scenes are Psycho Pirate vs the Ventriloquist and Calendar Man's discussion with Bane.

anyone have an archive link for the next issues?

>>93238029
I don't "love" any of King's comics yet, but Omega men was actually good storytelling and was really creative.

>>93228639
Let him have his 1950s suburban happiness, there is nothing inherently wrong with it.

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>>93230215
By coincidence, I just bought the two volumes yesterday. I'd like to thank whoever storytimed it when it was released and whoever storytimes it from time to time, like you. Loved the story and the art.
I'm not used to read comics in my language since translation always scrap some stuff, but Vision was pretty well handled.

>>93239204
That post doesn't mention Vision at all though.

>>93228639
From what I can see this is "muh life is so hard" the book.

>>93242724
Yeah, anon...I have some bad news on that front.

>literally the only thing OP got from this was the chance to REEEEEEEEEE at a nuclear family
OP just leave and make a Tumblr account if you don't have three already. And never come back.

>>93244734
Tell us, oh enlightened one, what OP missed.

Everyone always says Kings Vision was the best comic of the year and that it does so many things.

What was good about it? Specifically. If it "just connected" with you, that's fine, but that doesn't mean it's "good". Seems to me most people that like it just connect with the outcast vibe the characters have.

Kinda like why many Red Hood fans like Red Hood. They think they're troubled and have a complicated relationship with their father figure.

>>93244815
Why the hell would I waste the time for an idiot who just screeches autistically at any shallow interpretation of what is otherwise a normal family to anyone who isn't neck deep up their own ass? OP is an ideological idiot.

>Everyone always says
Then I'm sure you can find an answer for yourself from "everyone".

>>93245068
So you have no reasoning for why it was good. And you assert that OP was ree-ing while literally melting down over someone questioning your bullshit post.

I assume I hit it right on the head with the reason you liked the book? I'll also assume you're a Red Hood fan as well.

>>93245115
>comparing Vision to Red Hood
I know you are trying to shitpost about Vision and trying to prove autistically how Vision is shit, but I really don't think you are achieving anything unless only thing you want to achieve is some kind of self worth and self satisfaction.

>>93245374
I compared the fans not the books. And I my intention was to reply to someone who shitposted his assumptions about OP. My assumptions were combined with sincere questions.

Not sure how I'm the one shit-posting. You can have some shit-talk in your post without being a shitpost.

>>93245438
So what you ended up doing is you ended up shitposting by making assumptions about the guy making assumptions about OP. You do realize the irony here? If not, then please do so and don't try to justify your actions by acting like you have any high ground here.
But if you were doing it ironically then ironic shitposting is also shitposting and since you are ironic about it, you shouldn't really expect any serious answer.

>>93228807
Imagine getting BTFO this hard

>>93245571
Can you read?

>My assumptions were combined with sincere questions

granted, I asked one question, not questions, but it was sincere. Which is why I said:

>You can have some shit-talk in your post without being a shitpost.

blow your fucking brains out faggot you aren't even attempting to stay on topic and you're telling me I'm shitposting.

>>93246091
>I'm going to call you out for questioning OP's character by making presumptuous statement about your character
It's not a rocket science to understand the contradictory nature of your statement. But since you are too dumb to realize this I'd advise you to ask your mother if you were dropped on your head and if the answer is yes, slit your wrist, living life as a retarded faggot isn't worth living and if she answers no and you realize you got all here by yourself, then also slit your wrist because living life as a retarded faggot isn't worth living even though you yourself are responsible for your retardation.

>>93229573
Literally everyone who saw the front cover figures that out

>>93243058
I thought the songs were GOD awful but the rest was amazing

>>93229005
Ok, as an interest grabber that worked on me.

>>93230332
t. Ultron

>>93247093
You should check out the Storytime in archives.

>>93229854
I see the racism, but what about immigration? Just because the hot topic on racism right now is immigration doesn't make the story about immigration.

>>93248715
There are a lot of subtle hints. First thing, Vision and family are treated like an outsider throughout the series and the man who Virginia faces off tells them to go back and that they don't really have a place in this society. Second, in first issue there's a caption that highlights that people that do live in the suburbs didn't actually belong there, rather came from outside and settled. If you see living in suburbs as an American dream and see suburbs as an idealized version of what America is, the people that didn't originally belong there but came there to settle down would be settlers. The thing is that they came there a lot before Visions did so they are the social structure. Since Visions are different in a way (skin color at the most basic) than the original settlers, they are now seen as the immigrants. That's how I think the series is making that comparison.
I really don't think that King was predicting the future or anything with this or was aware of how things would turn out just one year later but he does actively try to make these points. I think when you are criticizing the social structure, you have to look at the very basics of what makes that social structure and since the social structure in the book is American society in part, you can see how the beats were formed.