https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3lP G1u6EbiY >having scen

>>93223217
go home george

I never minded the political stuff. I always thought original trilogy fags blew it out of proportion how much there was.

>>93223251
The prequels definitely had way bigger and more systematic problems than that.

>>93223251
The issue wasn't that the political stuff was especially prolific, it's that it was slow and boring and would often interrupt the already slow pace of the movie even more. It just exasperated the faults that were already there and made them even more glaringly obvious.

>>93223251
some fags wanted directly a nonsensical war without reasons on an era who take place before the existence of the empire and rebellion.
they are triggered that something called "the republic" use politics language and their enemies start a war for some economic reason like IRL.
they wanted a manchild simplistic scenario with characters shooting PIU PIU because it's star wars and we want action only.

>>93223217
The political stuff was mainly just uninteresting, especially with the uninspired script-writing throughout the film.
Also, the complete lack of ground forces from Theed always weirded me out.
I understand getting the Swamp Jamaicans to add to their forces was a major plot point, but making them the entire army? Even ignoring the fact that they actually held up against the droids for so long, why were they the strongest military on the planet?

>>93223217
>Amidala was elected Queen of Naboo
>elected
>Queen

Whe want fancy dreamy pricess stuff but also democracy.

>>93223217
Patrician opinion coming through:

Star Wars was never good.

I enjoyed the prequels, I think they are entertaining films, they are just not as good as the original trilogy.

plus the prequels gave us better cartoons

>>93223829
>elective monarchy doesn't exist

>>93223829
>Whe want fancy dreamy pricess stuff but also democracy.

Sounds a lot like real-life to me.

>>93223829
Also she was a teenager. So this planet elected a teenage girl to be their monarch.

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>>93223829
>Not knowing that elected monarchy is a legitimate system that had large historical practice particularly in trading states around the Mediterranean.
Old monarch dies, there's a bunch of candidates, elect one such candidate to be the new monarch for life, when they die repeat.

>>93223896
Right it doesn't. The whole point of monarchy is that they get their position by birth right not by vote. There are democracies with a king/queen but the monarch has no power.

You simply can't have both.

>>93223991
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Elective_monarchy#Current_uses

educate yourself

>>93223971
although in the case of Naboo that doesn't seem to be how it works, given that by the time of AotC she's no longer Queen we can assume she doesn't rule for life

>>93223971
The get elected by the aristocracy. That's certainly not what happens in that movie. She was elected for a certain time.

She is no queen. Call it like you want.

>>93224011
>>93224032
Even if the movie's system is retarded that doesn't change the fact that elective monarchy is a real thing, which >>93223829 and >>93223991 seem to imply isn't the case even outside of the movie.

>>93224072
>Even if the movie's system is retarded that doesn't change the fact that elective monarchy is a real thing

There is no "democratic" elected monarchy.
Read his >>93224008 link. It's always some small ingroup that can vote.

>>93224187
And scroll up the page a bit to historical examples and you can find examples of monarchs elected by more than just a small ingroup.

I think a lot of you are missing the point. The title of "Queen" is ceremonial. In the star wars universe, all royal titles mean whatever for their world. The Alderaanian monarchy, for example, is constructed of several royal houses vying for control of the planet. If you hear emperor, president, grand leader, lord, king, duke, governor, all that is just a generic ruler ship. I mean, Governors in star wars are not democratically elected. Both Tarkin and Price were given those positions by the empire itself, and they function like a planet's president.

I dunno, just seems like everyone in this thread is making this too hard. Star wars plays with some loose rules, and unlike trek or other hard fictions that play 90% with normal rules, star wars is like 75% reality. Scuse my autism, but as long as it is internally consistent, i dont mind.

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>>93224008
>Pope listed as one
Nothing against you anon, but I'm pretty sure a pope is literally a separate thing from a monarch
It functions very similarly, but it's literally labeled as its own thing on the page for 'Pope'

They need to get some actually autistic people to do this job for them, they'd avoid things like this from happening

>>93224295
The pope is the elected monarch of the Vatican City, which is its own country.

>>93224283

That's the problem. They use fancy words that mean shit in this world. It's not only a problem of the prequel tho. The extended universe is worse.

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>>93224318
>Read the monarch page
>'Head of state in a monarchy'
>Well that's not very helpful
>Read monarchy page
>'Form of government in which a group embodies the country's national identity and one of its members (monarch) exercises a role of sovereignty'
No wonder pope falls under this, it's vague as fuck
This is what happens when we try to categorise ancient forms of government from different places all together, I suppose.

>>93224402
How about you read up on the etymology of monarch anon?

>>93224402
By that definition North Korea is a monarchy.

>>93224445
I don't actually want to spend my whole day reading about the origins of a word because of a Star Wars thread.

What did the Trade Federation actually want?

>>93224402
Not to mention that the Pope is more like a mayor since he's just in charge of a single city. It's not like he has to bother with immigration, public education or taxes.

>>93224470
To profit from a war economy they had complete control over.

But instead Dooku played them all like a fiddle.

>>93224470
in phantom menace, the whole point was to create a galactic incident that palpatine could use to boost himself to the chancellor chair. They were not in on the whole thing (they didnt know sideous = palpatine), but they did it under his orders. They just thought they were exploiting this planet. Nute isnt the smartest ayylmao.

>>93224460
it is

at its fucking root all that monarchy means is rule by one

what did you think there was a rule that said you had to have royal blood lines, a divine mandate and fancy hats? Given North Korea has most of that stuff too

>>93224503
Thats true eventually, but there was no Dooku yet in TPM. And really, its the banking clans that made out with the most cash from the war... only to be charged of war crimes by big daddy palps himself just to take all that money back.

Sheev Palpatine is literally the best.

>>93224473
he's more than a mayor considering he doesn't just look after Vatican City but has a literally global network of priests and monks that answer to him and look to him, not to mention controlling and distributing the vast wealth of the Catholic Church

>>93224539
>a divine mandate
I'm not sure about that.

>>93224466
Fine you lazy nigger
>mono - single, one
>archon- ruler

>>93223217
You are right anon, but it's not the fault of the audience if you keep adding space politics to your sci fi in the most boring and worthless fashion ever.

The Senate was 100% irrelevant to the point of it going away had no punch. Who gives a shit about it? For all we know the Empire is just as good.

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>>93224595
So
It's kind of a useless term then, if you only pay attention to the etymology
People only use it in everyday language to refer to kings/queens, every version of a monarch that can exist already has a name (president, king, queen, prime minister, pope etc.)

>>93224682
Only modern day presidents aren't monarchs, since they're usually only the head of a single branch of government.

A dictator is though.

>>93223422
Weren't the Naboo a bunch of pacifist faggots and their "army" was pretty much a beefed up police force?

>>93223217
>Saying this while also being on the board that almost unanimously agrees that the political episodes of the TCW were shit

>>93224032
I always assumed that the Naboo system was called a monarchy because they didn't have separation of powers, you just elected a leader and there was no parliament or congress checking their power.

>>93224744
>>93223422
They mentioned a few times that Naboo was mostly peaceful and had no standing army beyond a few security forces.

I understand why they didn't make the planet Alderaan but it was too similar to Alderaan to me: peaceful forest planet with little in the way of weapons.

>>93224402
True, the current definition of monarchy may as well be "systems of government that aren't elective republics but we don't want to call dictatorships because that has a negative connotation".

>>93224609
That was actually the point, there are a lot of themes in the prequels about stagnation and inaction and "trusting that things will work out" rather than thinking outside the box. With a better script they really could have done something with those and actually made the political scenes meaningful.

>>93224470
>we've got to have...MONEY

>>93223893
Amen

>>93224470
In episode I, they were just running a monopoly on Naboo, forcing them to run all trade through their service through a blockade. In episdoe II, they wrre part of the confederacy trying to become independent from the republic. The republic wanted to force them to stay through beating the shit out of them. In other words, they were the US, i think.

>>93224925
The prequels are a bunch of good ideas with terrible focus.

>>93225350
The "republic" didn't actually want a war, but one was instigated by the confederacy when they took some Jedi hostage and killed dozens of others on Geonosis. Not to mention the Republic suddenly had a large, expendable army. I bet if any country on earth had a clone army they'd get into a lot more wars too.

>>93225444
The captured jedi were spies, tho. I have always been confused by the republic not just telling them to fuck off and be independant and going on the defensive. The republic was very eager to capture separatist territory for reasons that I don't remember being clear. Well, other than "we have an army and should use it!" That you pointed out.

>>93223217
You are right. But yeah... Americans are extremely stupid.

>>93224539
>Root words define what a word actually means.
Nigga we both know that the term Monarch has certain connotations placed on it by society, in that it invokes the image of a specific type of monarch. Yeah, technicality can kick in and you can call other forms of government a "monarchy", but at the end of the day this jusy makes you look like a nitpicky bastard who's just trying to put up a facade of intelligence.

>>93223217
>>93223375
The problem was that it sucked as political drama.

Why exactly did the Trade Federation start their own Confederacy? What were the specific reasons? Did anyone try to compromise? The TF was composed of several different planets why didn't the Senate try and win a few of them over by appealing to their specific circumstances?

Political drama can work in sci-fi. Look at Foundation. Look at Dune. Look at Star Trek. Look at Gundam.

It didn't work here. It didn't work here at all.

>>93224582
Religious leader =/= political leader.
>B-but Vatican City
A city state that holds about as much real political influence as a wet fart. The Pope's only real power, aside from being head of church and running a city kind of, is being looked upon as the moral leader of the western world, mostly thanks to his title and position in a religious organization.

>>93225579
The trade federation didn't start it, they joined it. They joined so they could sell loads of robots to the other fags in it.

>>93223217
>>93223251
Honestly, half of ANH was about the Senate letting/not letting Vader and Tarkin get away with their militarism keeping the systems in line.

>>93223880
They ignore you cause you're right

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>>93223217
God I'm getting flashbacks to the lineups for Phantom Menace. Biggest one I've been a part of. After that it might be Mortal Kombat or Spiderman.

>>93224460
>has a ruling dynasty
>ruler is pretty much worshipped as a living god
>ruler has pretty much absolute power

Tbh North Korea is an absolute monarchy dressed up as an communist state.

>>93225646
Why didn't they just sell to the Senate if they wanted to make money that badly or sell to both sides through proxies? Why did they bank on the Seperatists so hard? Did they not think the Senate would survive a Separatist victory?

>>93225646
So why did the Seperatists leave in the first place?

>>93223217
I'd actually like to see a sci-fi movie about a senate hearing in space.

>>93225660
They shut down the senate forty minutes in.

>>93225887
They were sick of the stagnation and rules of the Republic, but many of them also saw Palpatine as corrupt and wanted out.

>>93223217
part 2 XD
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DXGZxPcd0Xg

>>93225865
>Why didn't they just sell to the Senate if they wanted to make money that badly or sell to both sides through proxies?

They did sell to both, for most of the war. But what drew them to the CIS was the promise of absolute free(er) enterprise and no restrictions like what the Republic had put on them.

>Why did they bank on the Seperatists so hard?
They didn't until near the end of the war. But that was only because the CIS found a way to actually strike at the heart of the Republic. And because droids can be produced many times faster than Clones.

> Did they not think the Senate would survive a Separatist victory?
They had no reason to think it would.

>>93223217
Post decent era Simpsons whining about the prequels? That's just hypocrisy.

>>93225865
The republic already had a standing army, the separatists didn't. This means much larger orders. They were also already selling security equipment to the separatists before they began the movement, this means expanding contracts, upselling security equipment as war equipment and repurposing factories already in separatist territories.

There was also a sore spot with the republic over the Naboo incident.

>>93225579

Let's see...

>Tricked by the sith with the lure of promises of wealth and domination
>They wanted wealth, domination, and occasionally were on the recieving end of a failed diplomatic solution of the Republic's that turned into Jedi sorting shit out
>Yes, that was one of the main problems, there was no limit to the compromises.
>They did try, but planets don't enter a treasonous coalition lightly, and most of the prequels timeline wise (i.e. before Ep 2) was appeasing these planets. At least in the old canon. Count Dooku was basically the figurehead of the only plan that worked.

>Dune
Tbh, that was less political, and more mysticism and social workings. The reasons for overthrowing were less important than the future sight, the limitations behind space travel, and the whole 'worse planet makes stronger man' deal.

>Star Trek
Only TNG Fuck off DS9, I liked it, but no it wasn't exactly stellar . Everything else was meh.

>Gundam
While technically true, it wasn't as focal or as important to the audience. LoGH would have been the better example.

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>>93223217
I always thought that this was more of a parody on how politics in movies are nothing like real politics

>>93223217
So let's recap
>Trade Federation big shot: We are not being paid enough by the Naboo!
>TF Goon: Hey, how about we blockade their planet and land thousands of battle droids on it?
>TF Big shot: That sounds incredibly dumb, we would be up to our ass in trouble with the entire galactic senate if we just start out of the blue a blockade
>TF Goon: Err, what if we do it stealthily?
>TF Big shot: They will still find out and we will still be in trouble
>Guy in a hood: Hello, how about i told you to do it?
>TF Big shot: Oh, well then that's a different story! We will do it!

Like, what the hell did the trade federation expect to happen?

>>93227169
The fact that apparently their plan was to somehow completely crush the Senate and not like force them to recognize their sovereignty shows how fucking stupid the TF and by extension the pot was.

It's like if the South during the Civil War wanted to conquer the Union rather than separate from them.

>>93227277
Even better, fight the union and conquer great Britain of that time.

>>93224470
Palpatine wanted to use it for power through false flagging as well as an excuse to remove the jedi after battle testing a few apprentices in the ensuing war
Gunray and his guys wanted to get rich off of it as well as get some descending power from Palpatine
The rest of the Seperatists basically just wanted either independent rule from the Republic due to restrictive policies (the geonosians) or were making big power plays to establish themselves as major powers (techno union)
Like real life everyone had their own self serving motive

>>93227318
>Gunray
So they literally hitched all their horses behind the shady guy in a cloak having no idea who the fuck he was or what his motivations were?

>Genosians

Did the films ever say what restrictions were placed on them? What was their problem? The Senate seems pretty damn hands off managing planets considering Tatooine is a slave trading cesspool and they don't do anything about it.

>Techno Union

So their plan to become big players was to get behind the guys behind the shadowy man in a cloak no one knows about?

The more people tell me about the politics in SW the more retarded they sound.

>>93227369
Keep in mind before the clone army showed up the techno union droid army outnumbered every other military force by an insane margin. And even at the end of the war the droids were easily outnumbering clones as Fett's DNA got stretched thin and the cloning facilities on Kamino got destroyed while new droid factories popped up on any planet that joined the separatists. If the clones didn't show up the techno unions would have either ended up being the military of a new government or getting whatever they wanted from the republic in exchange for turning on the seperatists.

Slavery is illegal in the Republic but Tatooine is onthe edge of their territory and no one really enforces the law there due to lack of resources or corruption (basically their senators and representatives are in the Hutt's pockets). Geonosis isn't an outer rim territory and their whole culture is built around a small ruling class of queens and everyone else being a slave which the Republic wouldn't be a fan of

>>93227369
Tatooine wasn't a part of the Republic

>>93223217

what did purple yoda mean by that?

>>93223217
Star Wars is now owned by Disney, which means that anything else that comes out will likely be loaded with the SJW bullshit that panders to such vacuous retards whose only view of the Senate is that it's more "racist white patriachy." Likewise the Simpsons has turned to shit for the very same reasons.