Speaking Power to Stupid: The Ever-Dumb Green Lantern Comics

>>93124015
>hooded utilitarian
No.

>>93124015
I'm gonna guess he's a butthurt as if there is any other kind Kylefag?

>>93124015
I'm not clicking that shit nigger

>>93124640
No, he doesn't seem to like any superheroes.

An intellectual breakdown of Johns' comics is wholly unnecessary. It's like breaking down Star Wars, or any Disney animated movie, or etc. There's no need for that, they're not meant to be some Criterion Collection bastion of quality film-making. I'm not saying "lmao turn your brain off, dude," but I am saying that if you're a grown ass adult who has enough of an academic background to analyze the shit out of a piece of fiction, it's probably best to put your energy toward something challenging and meant to be analyzed.

>>93124874
He actually explains why he analyzed John's run.
>Picking on superhero comics for being dumb is like punching a baby for not walking well, but there’s something about the inexplicably popular work of Geoff Johns that invites derision. It might be that his influence has grown by leaps and bounds over the past decade, culminating in his current position as the Chief Creative Officer at DC Comics, with his style of writing now being the shoddy model for the entire company to follow.

>This style has its proponents, even among people who should really know better, due to its constant hammering on nostalgia buttons, emphasis on “awesome” moments, and constantly-expanding stakes that reassure readers a long-term plan is in place, no matter how idiotic it is. What’s more, regular injections of gruesome violence and attempts at making everyone a badass make Johns’ comics perfect for those developmentally-stunted members of the audience who want to pretend that the kiddie entertainment of their childhood is all grown up now that it’s full of rape and dismemberment.

>>93125085
because he was mad people like thing?

>>93125115
He was mad that a shitty writer like Johns' is now the template for DC capeshit and that Johns' is everything that was wrong with 90s Image.

>>93125185
>Johns' is everything that was wrong with 90s Image.

I've yet to see Geoff write a book where superheroes are just mercs.

>>93125185
is he? The only person I can think of at DC who writes like Johns is, well, Johns.

>>93124015
Jesus, who needs this many words to say what typical /co/ assholes say every time they call superhero comics "capeshit" and whine about how slice-of-life indy books aren't more popular?

>>93125210
He writes edgy shit under the allusion that it makes the stories mature, while still writing dumb stories full of spreads with big explosions.

>>93125227
Just read Rebirth. It reeks entirely of Johns.

>>93125384
>He writes edgy shit under the allusion that it makes the stories mature, while still writing dumb stories full of spreads with big explosions.

That's not the specific ingredients that made Image bad though.

>>93125384
I disagree. It's nostalgia pandering to be sure, but not in the "smash action figures together" way Johns does it.

The author makes some good points about how Johns definitely goes more for "moments" rather than overall story strength, but there's a lot of willfull ignorance about the actual story specifics that he just calls stupid and doesn't explain why. He hates the emotional spectrum because happiness isn't included?
He just seems to hate the basic ridculousness that comes with the territory, and it brings down his points.

The multicolored lantern lore is the only reason people give a fuck about Green Lantern comics to this day and cosmic DC shit, let's be honest.

>>93125384
>>93125185
>>93125085
>>93124015
I seriously hope you're not Dumas from the DC boards, OP.

>>93125816
It genuinely baffles me every time I see someone pine for the days when DC cosmic wasn't emotional spectrum stories because all they fucking have otherwise are copy after copy after copy of the Mos Eisley Cantina. I'm so fucking sick of the idea that outer space in the big two is nothing but trashy bars.

>>93124015
TL;DR but I got to this point

>Interrogating prisoners by beating information out of them is a pretty common practice in action movies and detective fiction, but that doesn’t make it any less morally troublesome (especially considering the still-continuing debates in U.S. politics about torturing prisoners), and having a guy dressed in green tights bloodying a giant-headed freak just cheapens the whole issue. It should be embarrassing for everyone involved, if only they had any shame.

What a retarded criticism, a character does something morally questionable = bad. Hasn't Hal always been the right equivalent to Green Arrow's left leaning views? Is not out of character for him to be a more violent cop.

>>93126025
>Hasn't Hal always been the right equivalent to Green Arrow's left leaning views?

Honestly, it always seemed more like Hal had no political opinions at all but SEEMED like the conservative one compared to how much of a hippie Ollie is.

>>93124015
Bookmarked. I was thinking of buying the first Green Lantern omnibus by Johns, but it'll have to wait

Johns is a dumb writer and his fans are even dumber

>>93125185
So he was mad that people like thing and wrote a bunch of bullshit to make himself sound smart and lure other people like you who are mad that people like thing?

>>93125384
>allusion
You are so fucking dumb m8

>>93125085
This. This is the worst thing about Johns. Just like Bendis, he's had too much influence over the genre, dragging it down with him, to his levels. If modern Cape comics are any indicator, both of them are the reason capeshit is dead.

>>93126292

Don't be retarded. Read the first issues online/torrent them and then decide whether to buy it or not. Don't follow someones 'analysis' as a recommendation.

>>93126025
the problem with rougher heroes is why the lighter ones tolerate them in their team. Wondy is the biggest offender for that.

>>93126681
OP we know it's you

>>93126727
The thing is, Hal isn't even dark or rough, he just really enjoys punching. It's a whole thing with him, absolutely every single time he's presented with a problem, he doesn't want to talk to it or be clever to go around it, his first instinct is knuckle sandwich. Not because he's angry, but because he's dumb and it's fun.

>>93126727
Wonder Woman isn't "rough", kill yourself, you casual filth.

>>93124874
>but I am saying that if you're a grown ass adult who has enough of an academic background to analyze the shit out of a piece of fiction, it's probably best to put your energy toward something challenging and meant to be analyzed.
They won't, this kind of faggots are wholly hypocritical and always without any self awareness. One of his criticism of the book is that it's illusionary fiction aimed at manchildren who want some maturity in their capeshit and that at the core is the kind of vile cynicism that's purely corporate and materialistic. But the whole reason this nigga would criticize something like this is that he is a cynic himself.
If you are an intellectual of any capacity, why are you reading a simplistic post modern garbage without any self awareness? Go analyze some classic fiction or literary comics. But they won't give you site clues and you won't feel good about the point and laugh game you are trying to play here.

Johnsfags are literately the worst comic fans in the world
they should collectively kill themselves

>>93127001
>But the whole reason this nigga would criticize something like this is that he is a cynic himself.

That's the thing about these pretentious psuedointellectuals. At the heart of what they do is always a depression. They're unhappy in life and they are the engineers of their own unhappiness and they blame everybody else. "It's not my fault I never find anything I try entertaining, you're the one who's tastes are shit."

>>93127052
>tfw doing a major in philosophy
>want to become a professor and do some academic works about media and fiction
I really hope I don't turn out like that. I really want to talk about the good things, the new creative things even though I shitpost more about shit comics then post something good about great works.

>>93124015

He's right.

>>93126891
necknaspper wondie who's proud her rogue list isn't as long as the other heroes' because she kills hers, is.
Not every wondie is like that. But all who are, are shit.

>>93126814
punching an enemy in a fight and torturing one in an interrogation are two different things

>>93127310
>punching an enemy in a fight and torturing one in an interrogation are two different things

Not to Hal Jordan, that's my point. He doesn't see the nuance, he just sees Hector Hammond's big dumb face so he puts his fist in it because it's satisfying to do.

>>93127135
I would caution it may already be too late for you simply by virtue of the fact that you're here, which means 4chan-influenced thoughts live in your brain.

I mean, as much as it's a meme, it's also true that this place is bad for us and no one well-adjusted should be here if they want to stay that way.

>>93124874
>meant to be analyzed
Everything should be analyzed.

>>93127411
Who analyzes the analyzers?

How is the blogger to know if he, himself, is shit?

>>93126025
>Hasn't Hal always been the right equivalent to Green Arrow's left leaning views?
Nah. He's just a pawn for Denny O'Neil's thoughts and opinions. He's the guy Ollie yells at from time to. It's all for him to hammer the point home about whatever issue Denny wanted children to think about and absorb.

He basically admitted to writing propaganda for children, it's hilarious

>>93127351
Well yeah, but if he's been in the JL for some time, it ought to have come up at some point.

>>93127351
>>93127310
It's kinda funny when the blog has "utilitarian" in the address, one would expect the persons writing there to be able to grasp that a bastion of pure good punching something pure evil for the greater good should be acceptable. What's really supposed to be the ideological debate here? Superhero works are power fantasy symbolic fiction. People are projecting upon these characters and making them symbolic of something. They want to see these evil characters be defeated or be beaten. Does the guy object everytime Batman beats up a thug to solve a grander mystery and save the day? If so, maybe he really is missing the point of this genre.

>>93127490
I don't think anybody in the JL sees physical assault during an interrogation as "torture". They all do it, while they don't go for waterboarding or shoving bamboo under the fingernails or whatever.

>>93127486
>"My theory was that it was probably too late for my generation, but maybe you get a smart twelve-year-old... and you get him thinking about racism"
>And he said this all with a clenched fist

>>93127486
It was definitely a liberal wank as one would call it and I'm a liberal. The book is really funny if you read it now, you wouldn't be able to tell where the line between what's supposed to be taken at face value vs what's parody like and there isn't supposed to be that line. The book really needs the context to work.

>>93127616
I like how the scene of that old man bitching at Hal "why haven't you done anything for the black skins?" and all Hal can do is lower his head in shame comes off as unintentional comedy.

Motherfucker's saved the planet like a thousand times. Pretty sure that's where the black skins live.

>>93127511
What if you find self-righteous, disproportional punishment more evil than selfishness?
Defeating a villain in a duel is one thing, administering punishment -directly or through cosmic karma- was always too cringey for my tastes.

>>93125185
So he's mad people liked thing and wanted more of thing he didn't like.

>>93127769
How do you feel about buddy cop movies like Lethal Weapon where there's always the "loose cannon" character who's actually the cool one who does all the action hero stuff and gets the best results because when there's a timebomb, there's no time for red tape?

>>93126025
>Hasn't Hal always been the right equivalent to Green Arrow's left leaning views?
I always got the impression Hal was mostly ignorant and neutral guy stuck between Ollie's left leaning arguments and Barry's right leaning arguments.

>>93127542
Hell Batman regularly interrogates guys by dangling them off roofs.

>>93127769
If you really want to pose these questions, the fiction that would come out of it would be too self reflective and it might just become too post modern for your taste. The psuedo ethical/moral boundaries of Superhero fiction has always been too abstract. People are just more concerned about providing the self satisfactory and self indulgent fiction and as history has shown, that really is the best way to go for the genre. If people get too caught up about some bones being fractured every time Batman is fighting thugs or the collateral damage when Superman is fighting a heavy hitter, only fiction you will end up enjoying is the one that's satirical or taking itself too seriously.

>>93127961
Hawkman's more Ollie's rival in political beliefs. Barry's another unopinionated character who sometimes gets shoehorned into the same role as Hal just because he works for the cops and looks like a square.

>>93128054
Oh yeah forgot about Hawkman, him and Ollie are always arguing when in the same room.

>>93128054
>>93128086
Are you getting this from Kevin Smith comic or does this have any more substance beyond that?

>>93124015

>Somehow, Johns has determined how to push the nostalgia buttons of man-children like himself who can’t manage to expand the boundaries of their sphere of knowledge beyond stories of muscular behemoths in colorful, skin-tight costumes beating each other into oblivion, and he has shaped the industry to his liking, convincing everyone that this is how superhero stories should be told.

Pretty much hit the nail on the head.

>>93128252
It dates back way before Smith. I believe it started in late 70's JLA.

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>>93128252
>>93128321
forgot pic

>>93128299
Damn I didn't know the blogger is arm chair psychoanalyst as well.

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>>93128299

>>93128550
Didn't read the whole article, but his description of Johns is spot on at least.

>>93128664
Meant to quote OP.

>>93124015
This is guy who called Bendis the best modern comic boook writer

And Shit all over Dawyne Cooke fuck him.

>>93128949
Welp. Now I know he's full of shit.

>>93128321
No Mark Waid's pushed the Flash as a Conservative for a long time.

>>93128664
Sounded more like projection, OP

>>93128949
Source?

>>93129101
>Everyone who disagrees with me is OP
There is there this nice script called 4Chan X that allows you to know when an new has posted in a thread, you should try it.

>>93129055
You mean Wally?

>>93124874
Star Wars is actually an incredibly useful tool for academic breakdown of stories as it popularized Joseph Campbell's Monomyth writings which contributes significantly to myth analysis, which is basically studying how stories are formed

has there ever been a more "successful" comic book writer who doesn't have any actual critical acclaim or creator owned work?

>>93129910
I'm pretty sure Johns has a creator-owned OGN through Image

I really do need to know what people and the blogger meant when he said Johns is nostalgia pandering. I mean sure, the whole bring back my favorite Superhero of Silver Age and make him great again is based on nostalgia and for nostalgiafags but other than how is it evocative of nostalgia? Because it used an Alan Moore idea from 30 years ago that only hardcore Moorefags or Lanternfags know about? Is it the writing style or where narrative is going? See his Superman is nostalgia pandering with all the Donner homages and LoSH stuff. His GL stuff isn't really that.

>>93129240
Sure thing OP

>>93127961
Hal never had a personality anyway. Hal got so much hype not for the character itself but for what he represents, the silver age and cape comics allowing legacy characters to stick and truly replace the older characters.

The fanboys are getting old and can't deal with it.

>>93131381
Not saying you're a Johnsfags, but this is another retarded thing that Johnsfags use to defend Johns.
>The character is inheritantly boring, it's not Johns fault for not making the protagonist interesting.

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>>93131647
Not a Johnsfags. Personally I found pathetic that Johns had such a big connection to a bland character only for what he represents, muh childhood, and he tries so hard to hype him as the second coming. Hal and Barry just irk me in the wrong way, they should never return. Is it really that terrible to allow cape comics to evolve?

>>93124015
Skimmed most of it.
Read like an exaggeration of any real issues and poking at things that aren't issues to be extra critical.
Like a youtube critic for some videogame, except no quick simple visuals like you'dget from ZeroPunctuation nor crued-but-clever ways to describe a turd like AngryVideogameNerd.

Whoever made this should have simply made a long youtube video to ignore.
Or have friends recreate explanations of it like Max Landis did for Death of Superman.
No one who has not GL fans would bother reading something this long. And most GL fans loved johns run so are gonna want to skim it at best since they know they liked it and this 10 page article won't convince them otherwise.

>>93131809
Hal was never gone like Barry was though, and why let a character be defined by a story as rushed and poorly done as Emerald Twilight when you can rehabilitate their reputation and make them not bland anymore?

>>93130694
It's the kind of generic criticism like "Johns is bringing back the Silver Age" which convieniently ignores that he got started on Silver and Bronze comics but when he started actually buying and collecting he was buying 1980's (and maybe early 90's) comics or how Hal Jordan and Barry Allen were also around during the Bronze Age instead of just Silver.

>>93125259
>>93133389
I hate to admit it, but I think I see more sincere analysis and writing from here than I do from people like in OP's link.

>>93134408
The thing is, the use of the term "Bronze Age" was a lot less common when Johns started on GL than it is today on /co/.

Most people used to countenance the DC timeline as "Gold, Silver, Post-Crisis"

>>93134510
>Most people used to countenance the DC timeline as "Gold, Silver, Post-Crisis"

I've never heard that at all. In the 90's people were referring to DC's 70's books as Bronze Age.

>>93134488
well of course you do, /co/ only speaks the unvarnished truth

or it's baiting

or both

it's hard to tell

>>93134576
I just think there's too many journalists and columnists trying too hard to be contrarian and it comes off more try hard and needy than people who do it for free on /co/.

>>93134574
Not OP, but post-crisis was definitely a thing back in the early internet comics fandom. Bronze age less so.

>86 replies
>31 replies

OP trying to get Johns hate meme over?

>>93134574
On the forums I frequented throughout the early 2000's, it was actually a very common thing to see discussion asking whether or not the Bronze Age was a legit "age" considering there's no clear start marker compared to "Barry Allen's creation"

>>93134690
Post-Crisis I can believe people used, but I've seen books and magazines in the early 90's refer to 70's as Bronze, for both Marvel and DC.

The only thing I can think of that follows what early internet comics fandom was using was that DC Cosmic Cards where they only had "Golden, Silver, and Modern".

>>93134737
I always thought it was The Night Gwen Stacy Died or Green Lantern #76

>>93124015
>http://www.hoodedutilitarian.com/
>this meme website still exists

>>93134691
>people respond multiple times to an actual discussion thread
what are you trying to prove here

>>93134804
It's technically dead. Only Noah Berlatsky updates it to link to his writings on other sites.

>>93134804
> I use meme as a derogatory term because that makes me cool
mhm

>>93135010
hoodedutilitarian is still garbage and dead regardless of your preferred usage of meme

>>93134801
See that's the thing people argue about, "The Bronze Age" isn't defined by a major publishing event that changed the direction of the industry, but by moderate changes in writing habits, which is different from what defines all the other ages and caused people to debate whether or not Bronze counts.

>>93135041
I mean it's still an era regardless of quibbles in start date

>>93135082
Well most of /co/ will agree with you now, I'm just saying that used to be a contested opinion.

Another frequent argument I saw was that you need to be sufficiently removed from the time period you're examining to be able to tell whether or not something had been a real "age"...so maybe 30 years wasn't long enough for them but 40 is.

>>93125686
>He hates the emotional spectrum because happiness isn't included?
That's retarded. Specially when there are other things to hate, like half of the emotional spectrum not being actual emotions.

>>93135176
Van Sciver has said it should've been called the "motivation spectrum" but that doesn't have as catchy a ring to it.

>>93124015
Stop spamming your shitty fucking blog.

>>93131809
Sure but you can't replace them with human blank pages like Kyle Rayner who was only given a personality in Omega Men, over 20 years after his creation.

>>93124015
The most interesting thing about this is that it has over 100 comments and his current post have zero.

>>93135228
johns has said the same, that he sees it more in terms of "drives"

>>93135348
casual

>>93128949
Are you sure you're not confusing him with the other writers on that site?

>>93135348
Look up Ron Marz.

>>93124015
People like him are the reason we have comic writers like Nick Spencer, who has a complete disdain for his audience and is too busy trying to show how smart he is to his peers to make an entertaining story.

>>93127001
informed post.

>>93127719
yet he never bothered to fight injustice if it wasn't in a space ship or wearing spandex.

>>93127616
>that time Ollie basically did a redface get-up to impersonate the ancestral hero of some indians and sparked a fucking all-out assault between them and greedy corporate types looking to steal their land
I think in the end they just walked away from that shit without actually resolving things, too.

>>93135724
>People like him are the reason we have comic writers like Nick Spencer,

Which is funny because that article calling out Spencer on his politics was written by someone who used to write at HU, and the guy in charge of HU started plugging said article on Twitter, too.

>>93124015
He is not wrong, Johns is for retards and you can see even her on /co/. Every time they are faced with criticism they can only go "OMG YOU MUST BE A [something]-fag who is butthurt!", they are literally unable to process reality in any different way other than this childish "you must be biased!" way.

>>93136182
Oh, like you're doing now?

>>93136354
Except I am describing a behavior, literally the second post of this very thread proved me right. I am not throwing baseless accusations.

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>anti-Johns fags seriously think he's some kind of edgelord

>>93136559
*licks your girlfriend's dead body*

>johnsfags getting so BTFO they stop replying
hilarious

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>>93136703
Be patient with him: he might (does) have autism.

>>93127001
>>93127052
Nah hypocritical is labeling opinions you don't like as contrarian while masking them as analysis.

>>93135348
Dude Kyle has always been a generic self insert. Even in Omega Men he has no personality, just pure autism.

Why are Halfags so insecure? They are even worse than wallyfags.

>>93137041
And yet he still manages to be vastly more interesting than fighter pilot Ken doll.

>>93136974
Nigga, I'm just taking a liberty to psychoanalyze the garbage blogger the same way he did the whole of fandom and Johns. Difference is that I'm tongue in cheek about it while the author is straight faced as fuck. Not that what I said was wrong though.

>>93137061
Go back to /tv/.

>>93137079
>I AM BEING LE IRONIC
kill yourself, retard

>>93137073
>more interesting
How? Because you fell for the suffering and muh relatability through victimization of a bland generic self insert meme? Do you like modern anime too my man?

>>93137094
>no argument
First you my man.

>>93137079
>>93137079
Caling something cynical makes you a cynic and therefore invalidates your opinion and superhero comics should never be analyzed if you find them simplistic are bulletproof arguments, well done.

>>93137101
your only "argument" was that is okay because you are a moron that is doing it "tongue in cheek" and this somehow puts you above being called out while still claiming that your "analysis" is right

>>93137097
Because he's not a perfect fighter pilot. I don't know what anime has to do with anything.

>>93125085
>>93126681
Excusing comics for having shit writing just lets the medium slip down deeper. Which in turn makes it less appealing for people to pick up, it's a self destructive bar lowerer.

>>93137097
Modern anime is still superior to everything Johns has ever written so your observation is stupid, just like yourself.

>>93137106
So if calling someone's cynical intent out invalidates my opinion, that means the blogger's whole criticism is invalidate? Not what I was going for but I'll take it.

>>93137148
No read it again slowly.

>>93137148
>guy that defends terrible comics has shit reading comprehension
Pottery

>>93137122
>Because he's not a perfect fighter pilot.
Why is this a criticism? And how does that make a generic self insert more interesting? Don't fall back to the subjectivity argument if you do try to answer this.
>>93137136
>modern anime liking shitter is a Kylefag
Pottery. Kyle really is like one of those bland Isekai/Mecha protagonist.

>>93137180
>>93137193
Samefagging?

>>93127901
Sorry, for the delay, I went to sleep.
Loose cop killing enemies shooting him back, while he has no warrant to investigate their hideout, I really don't mind.
I usually start minding when someone administers punishment on an incapacitated enemy.

>>93137197
I don't even read Green Lantern because I am not a retard that is impressed by OMG EMOTIONAL SPECTRUM! HOPE!!! AH AH LARFLEEZE!! and similar garbage. Just pointing out that modern anime is superior to the garbage you defend.

>>93129497
Except by the virtue of being the monomyth is that you can also use it to dissect most myths ever. Star Wars is just the laziest version of it.

>>93137217
>retard can't understand that there are multiple people that don't share his view
not surprised

>>93137197
A perfect fighter pilot who has nothing to overcome and is a cog in a well oiled galactic bureaucracy will always be less interesting than a random Joe inheriting one of the most powerful weapons in the universe and having no idea what to do with it. Sorry if that's too subjective for you.

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>>93137245
>I haven't actually read it
>I also like modern anime
Wew lad. Pic related is you.

>>93137266
>A perfect fighter pilot who has nothing to overcome
But that's not true at all.

>>93137382
Is this bait? I just refuted your empty accusation about me being a Kylefag in your poor attempt at labeling me as a "butthurt kylefag".
Also Johns has wrote stuff other than GL, you should know this.

>>93137404
No fear

>>93137422
That's a characterization trait, doesn't mean there aren't narrative obstruction in his narrative.

>>93137455
We're talking characters and their arcs, not whether or not superheroes will face obstacles.

people that like Hal only care about his "feasts" aka point the ring scream "GREEN LANTERN LIGHT!!" and stuff happening
he is a non-character and that's why it doesn't matter which GL is on the JL because anyone can take his place

that and the Sinestro - Hal meme homoeroticism

>>93137474
Character arc that people look through the lens of your kind of subjectivity is also something I consider shallow criticism. Firstly, you don't need to have a character arc for every character to be interesting. Cape comics in particular have always shown their characters in stasis and people still found the character interesting because of the ideologies or quirks. Second, just because there's some sort of character arc doesn't mean character inherently becomes interesting. Third, perfect characters don't have to be brought down by the narrative on the flawed level to have a character arc.

>>93124015
Kek. Who is this fucking nobody?

>>93137624
King Shark is NOT a nobody.

He has a Shark-Body.

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>>93137661

>>93137492
>only care about his "feasts"
You're thinking of Kylefags. You also probably mean feats not feasts.

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>>93136559
>m-muh favourite author isn't edgy, stop making fun of him you big bullies!

>>93137693
Kyle actually had interesting arcs, especially on the JL with Batman.
Which also explains why people here hate Kyle since they hate Batman too unless he is getting punched by Hal.

>>93137713
If you think this is edgy, you are not old enough to be here.

>>93137713
>turned mirror master into a drug addict for no reason
>edgy squashing little people scene
>superboy-prime
>his fucking JL run
b-b-ut he writes Superman so he can't be edgy!

>>93137726
>tongue fucking a skull isn't edgy

Yeah sorry he isn't graphically sodomizing the rest of his corpse but this shit is still edgy for mainstream comics' tier.

>>93137713
>>93137742
>>93137769
Holy shit, you pussies are worse than actual edgelords.

>>93137769
Opening an event by Allah hu akabaring 300 or something children is edgy, this is very much tame in comparison.

>>93137742
>superboy-prime
Is a parody.
>his fucking JL run
Yes, what about it?

>>93137814
so his Batman Earth One then, where he wrote Bruce Wayne as deserving to have his parents killed in front of him

>>93125902
t. Someone who's never read L.E.G.I.O.N.

>>93137814
Just because there are edgier things doesn't make this not edgy, and having Black Hand lick "Batman"'s skull just to demonstrate how "muhfugging hardcore diz peep is u gaiz" is stupidly edgy
>>93137796
Yeah, we get it, if it ain't hard core snuff your dick just won't get hard

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Alan Moore fanboy site upset about the raccoon who went through his trash
>>93137934
He could always pay a prostitute to dress up like the heroine he wants to fuck, so he can beat and kill her.

>>93135858
I mean its not like he's meant to be in charge of keeping dozens of worlds safe.
He can hardly focus on earth, especialy since he's not really got the time to solve the systematic problems that cause/come from racism.

>>93137860
>i-it's a parody!

>>93138144
Yes it is.

Like Section-8.

>>93124640
Hey I'm a Kylefag and I'm not butthurt at all!

>>93137552
You are saying a whole lot of nothing. Character arcs are what elevate superhero comics from trivial bullshit into something more.

>>93125384
Geoff Johns is the Michael Bay of comic book writers?

who writes smart superhero comics then? Rick Remender? I like his stuff, but his whole thing is to make the comics he writes as depressing and hopeless as it can possibly be,

Morrison? Whackyness and surrealism often overtake the story he's trying to tell. I like his stuff though.

Millar? Every character he writes is a cynical asshole, his stories mostly follow the same formula. He's often a good kind of samey though.

Honestly, I'll take Geoff Johns fun, big "epic" storylines, even if they're often a bit stupid and heavyhanded. We're talking comics here after all.

>>93138996
>just turn your brain off! bro!
>I'll take stupid stuff because it doesn't make me look pretentious! YOLO!

>>93137717
>Kyle actually had interesting arcs, especially on the JL with Batman.

That was only two issues and pretty much the entirety of Kyle's characterization before Rebirth.

>>93137742
>turned mirror master into a drug addict for no reason

That was Morrison (if it wasn't obvious enough) the guy who created him.

>>93138996
Morrison can do everything Johns can do asleep and with one hand behind his back and it'll turn out ten times better.

>>93138996
smart superhero comic is an oxymoron, anyone worth his chops has long graduated to other stuff

>>93139076
Except for y'know his hundred plus run of his own solo series.

>>93139157
Yes only the truly enlightened disregard everything outright.

>>93139180
Don't expect people that like Johns to know about comicbook stuff unless it was made by Johns,

The funny thing is that these are the same people that call other people casuals all the time.

>>93139212
>Johnsfags are DnAfags
Oh god it makes perfect sense

>>93138996
Johnathan Hickman

>>93137492
Have you ever considered reading a comic?

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>>93137245
>AH AH LARFLEEZE!!

I laughed

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>>93139240

>>93138996
Tom King
Priest

>>93138144
Dude you really lack reading comprehension and ability to put things in perspectives.

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Yeah, this pretty much hits the nail on the head for why I liked GL:TAS. I think there's a lot of great ideas in Johns' Green Lantern stories, I like the mythos he's trying to create, but he really does tend to get hamstrung by attempts to make the stories seem more "mature"... Which, granted, is an issue that's impacting pretty much all Marvel and DC comics, not just Johns' stuff.

So when you take his ideas and throw some shackles on them- television Standards and Practices, in this case- so he can't get too crazy with the edgy stuff, what you're left with is a surprisingly decent (if not a little simplistic) story.

>>93139413
>you just didn't get it!
>says the guy with a GL shirt and a superman cap

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>>93139386

>>93139408
King is a fucking hack worshipped by the same people who defend Johns.

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>>93139386
Pick up a book, child.

>>93138996
Morrison, Dematteis, Milligan, Moore, Ostrander, Priest, King. Even Millar has his moments and is better than Johns, though he's massively overrated too.

>>93138628
Superhero fiction is more defined by world building, whacky cool aesthetics, grand imaginations. Characters are archetypical and if you think something like based Waid making Wally's character grow is some sort of pinnacle of storytelling then I'd say you probably haven't read good graphic fiction, let alone good fiction. Superhero comics are not really known for their "wow he got so many character arcs" stuff except for when people like Moore or Miller or O'Neil are writing them and taking whole lot of liberties. Strong character work comes from throwing these archetypes into a different ideological scenarios, testing characters strength morally or physically. Something as substandard as never give up or family values or choose right every time is just about the extent in this genre. Which isn't a bad thing until stupid people pretentiously claiming average archetypical Joe number 76 is somehow a better and more interesting character than let's do right and be awesome archetype number 16.

>>93139546
Maybe Hackman should finish the series first .

>>93139157
This is correct in a lot of ways. There isn't much smart Superhero fiction, just Superhero fiction that has smartness about it, a very important distinction. If people want to read comics and feel pretentious about it, read some good comics and stop reading the genre fiction and especially the capeshit which might as well be the lowest of them all.

>>93139463
>an average capeshitter lacks the reading comprehension to realize when a blatant parody is being hammered into his stunted brain via funnybooks
Really gets the nog's noggin.

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Is Johns really that influential? Aside from his firm grasp on the mega-events and how some character stories play out I don't see other authors trying to emulate him, it's not like Bendis where pretty much every amateur tried to ape his bullshit decompressive writing at one point in a vague attempt to gain his popularity or how some writers try to emulate Morrison or Moore still, while missing the point of what made them great. He might be popular but so far the only person that writes like Johns seems to be Johns himself.

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My only problem with Geoffs run was that it was too much rainbow lanterns. I ended up dropping it after awhile

ill probably end up getting the omnibuses when i see them on sale though.

I'll say its one of the few "New Ideas' added to comics that really stuck around and will most likely be permanent (even if they get rid of them for awhile)
Reminds of Silver Superman where you would get a "new idea" every few months or so (Kandor/Legion/Super-Pets) to keep kids interested. After that they just sorta recycled the ideas over and over again (getting rid of them...and then bringing it back in hot new ways)

>Still No Pol Manning issues

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>>93139498
>>93139546
>he reads Hackman
>he thinks it's smart storytelling
It's summer time but I really can't stop keking.

>>93139732
No writer imitates him because he is a shit writer, this doesn't mean he isn't important. He is basically one of the most important figures at DC with ties even to the movies and the tv shows, He is influential but not for his writing abilities.

so basically people are saying that Johns is fine because all writers are shit and for dumb people

>>93139157
This is an ironic statement when you're in a Geoff Johns thread, defending Geoff Johns.

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>>93139766
But the thing about Johns is that he's a good idea man, his writing is severely lacking and he botches the execution some times but if his idea gets filtered through the lens of more competent writers in different media isn't that the perfect place for him to be?

>>93139723
>dude he is deep you just don't get this deep and meaningful writing!

>>93139790
>it's a shitposting thread and everyone is shitposting
Astute observation, my fellow intellectual.

>>93139850
But I've been shitting on him the entire thread retard

>>93139908
Prove it

>>93139892
>deep
But that's the point, it isn't deep. Parody being a deep textual achievement is a contradictory statement by default. But what it does say is that the people who do end consuming this stuff are too braindead to even comprehend it but have enough of faux intellectualism to argue about the merits of the texts.
Basically says a whole lot about you as a person than anything.

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>>93139951
durrp.

Really, why so rancorous?

>>93139622
Not for twenty plus years buddy. And for all of your bloviating your end point that all characters across fiction have the same level of depth and complexity is pretty fucking stupid.

>>93139690
The irony in this post is palpable. Depth can be found anywhere in any medium or genre, only people who think they're smart by rejecting stuff that is "beneath" them think otherwise.

>>93140007
>characters across fiction have the same level of depth and complexity is pretty fucking stupid.
But I'm saying exactly opposite, Superhero shit cannot be compared to good comics literature or any other form of literature. At the same time I've highlighted at lengths about why these characters are important and their merits and why they work but you've so far failed to directly address any of.

>>93140054
Completely untrue, and you know it.

Don't even dare claim that you can compare superhero comics to Maus or From Hell.

>>93140007
Regardless of how many good character arcs there are, status quo is king, anon. DC seems to be shacking up things lately on that department tho and I'm legit grateful with that even tho I've been too busy to follow their comics lately

>>93140054
The superhero genre is childish in its premise, and making it genuinely not-childish removes the aspects that people like about it.

>>93140054
There's a hierarchy of art, every form of art and when you try to learn about art, this is the first thing you will learn. This is why my statement that there isn't much smart Superhero fiction, just the things that have smartness about them is completely true and undisputed. I'm not even being ironic here, nor do I have contempt for cape fiction, nor do I consume it out of self loathing, I am just realistic about it. Basically what he >>93140104 said.

>>93140103
>>93140104
>>93140133
>>93140197
>>93140210
>What is everything said about all comics up until about thirty years ago.

You guys are really enlightened.

>Johns
>edgy

>>93140519
he is still shit

>>93140397
Well because there is a layer of truth to it, anon, I don't know what to tell you.

>>93140559
Not really. I've read worse.

>>93139732

Because Johns writing itself doesn't have a distinct voice. His skill is his vast knowledge of characters histories and ability to utilize old stories in fresh and interesting ways. What makes him good is that he's read a shit ton of comics.

>>93140665
This basically.
It also explains why unlike other writers he has no original project under his name

>>93139095
Unless Morrison came up with the idea (he might have, but I hadn't heard that), the drug use began in Johns' stories.

>>93125085
I mean from that second paragraph those are criticisms I've had for like 10 years regarding Johns so I can't say I disagree in that regard. Just that I disagree with the pretentious disdain of capes.

>>93140705
To be fair by the time he gained his fandom and popularity and original stuff became a prevalent thing, he had already taken on too much. By 2006 he was working with Singer on Superman Returns, by 2008 he was working with animations and games. The guy is so busy he has basically stopped writing altogether.

>>93140639
You could be just as dismissive about all comics while turning your pretentious nose up and saying you only read high art like literature. Check yourself smarty.

>>93140861
You can read Superhero comics, recognize their artistic merits while still being critical about their overall achievements. Nobody is saying there isn't any artistic merit to be found here, just that compared to something like Alternative Comics or more experimental and literary comics, Superhero comics as a whole just do not hold up.

>>93135858
Most people don't do shit to improve the world at all. That's also a meaningless rebuttal. What's your point?

>>93140665
Would that actually make him a pretty good editor in chief for DC? He doesn't have a distinctive voice and he has an autistic knowledge of the universe so he could just throw around ideas that other better writers could work with and execute better.

>>93140987
Except the absolutely do. They created the popularity of comics and have consistently evolved since their inception to include all manner of stories with as much depth as anything in the format. You are a pretentious fuckhead.

>>93141280
Anon, comics are a limitless format but superhero comics are a stagnating, incestuous and repetitive genre. Only a handful of them venture to break the mold and try new things and even then the chances of those that try new stuff surviving is very slim do to the audience being pone to flock to the ones that pander the most to them.

>>93142851
Not what we are arguing. And Kyle is still a better character than Hal.

>>93141280
>They created the popularity of comics
No they didn't, US is pretty much the only country which comic industry revolves around Capes, and even in US there were various popular non-cape comics before the Seduction of the Innocent came and ruined everything.

>>93143929
And yet here we are in 2017 with people saying the exact same things.

>>93140834
He has work ethic of someone raised in Detroit.

>>93144075
When you say "saying the exact same thing" exactly what do you mean?

>>93140645
Agree. He's okay.

>>93144267

>>93140397

>>93144403
You're gonna need to be more specific than that because a lot of those anons are saying different things.

>>93144520
That superhero comics are substanceless degenerate trash for children.

>>93144943
I'm not saying they're substanceless degenerate trash for chidlren but given the format and audience it is very hard to elevate them beyond that, it's not the fault of the genre but just a number of factors that prevent them from doing so, look at King's Vision, it was honestly one of the best stories published recently yet it sold like shit and given mandatory orders it's corpse was desecrated by Waid and his inability to write teenage characters. The Superhero genre is perceived as childish and it'll be very hard for it to step away from that view and the fault of that falls solely on both editotial and the consumers.

>>93135858
His job is to stop actual crime, not vague unfairness.

>>93145236
King's Vision is a fucking joke. You just cemented yourself as emperor of the pretentious wankers.

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Hasn't Hal always been an idiot though?

>>93144943
They are. There are over 100 comics coming out every month and maybe 5 of them are in the great category. That's not a really good quality to quantity ratio buddy. But this isn't exclusive to comics, happens in everything media related, the small percentage really sticks out and that small percentage is what really matters but we can't even say if that 5% are genuinely good comics or genuinely good in the context of Superhero co.
Also please recognize the distinctions I've made before sperging out.

>>93145380
his job is being the oppressive arm of an unelected authority that thinks it has the right to look over the entire galaxy
>>93145422
that's why a lot of people can relate to him, Johns too

>>93124015
>came in hoping for stupid Hal pics
>got real discussion
I'm sad now.

>>93145417
>philosophical themes
>intertextuality
>allegorical narrative
It really is for intellectuals to wank over, you are correct and that's what makes it awesome. Also when was the point that you realized that people making an argument about the capeshit not being the cream of the crop are pretentious wankers? Surely it didn't take you this long. Surely?

>>93133927
>make them not bland anymore

The Cereal King always forgets the cream. So the cereal is always dry, bland and tasteless

>>93145449
Just because the current landscape is a flaming shitpile doesn't mean that the entire genre is invalidated.

>>93126025
>a character does something morally questionable = bad.
More like a character does something morally questionable and nothing in the comics aknowledges the fact that it's morally questionable.

It makes torture commonplace seemingly without even realizing it.

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>>93145417
Anon, I don't understand, do you WANT comics to stay in the stagnating status quo driven hellhole that they're in? Cuz even if it had some hiccups King's vision was a perfect example of how you can shake up a characters story with an interesting story,

>>93145547
If you want to pretend like Tom King is a good writer and all other superhero comics ever made are bad that's your perogative. But you are definitely not as smart as you think you are.

>>93145643
There's nothing interesting about middle school level existentialism and boilerplate tragedy. His shit getting elevated is a symptom of the problem with today's comics. He is on DC's flagship title

>>93145572
I don't think Hal Jordan is bland. I think he WAS bland but Geoff actually made his personality and backstory interesting to me. I think the people that continue to call him bland a full decade after Geoff's run started are not being fair and stuck in an old mindset.

>>93145714
>I am easily impressed, therefore everyone else is wrong

>>93126681
The way I see it Johns and Bendis are massive fanboys. They weren't just nerds in the 80's, they were the stereotypical nerds. And now that they're grown up they're trying to prove that comics books can be cool and mature.

>>93128050
>If people get too caught up about some bones being fractured every time Batman is fighting thugs
I am a annoyed by Batman and the Bat family in general breaking bones. It always seems overkill. Batman can beat powerful ennemies but he can't incapacitated thugs without breaking bones? I'm sure writer and artist just do it for the breaking sound.

>>93145733
>easily impressed

I prefer to think of it as "willing to try things out".

There was a post earlier in this thread about how being picky and psuedointellectual about everything usually comes from or leads to being trapped in a cycle of cynicism and depression. It does kinda make sense that people who are never pleased with anything are never gonna be happy.

>>93145686
It was the way it was presented, the execution was really well done, what do you think is a direction comics should be heading to? I'm not being smug I'm legit curious what you think is a good comic that should be used as an example of how goo superhero media can be.

>>93145835
>if you don't like Hal's it means you hate everything and are actually a sad person

>>93145417
>Geoff Johns fan
>Unable to appreciate good comics

What a shocking development.

>>93145963
Johns is a fucking hack too.

>>93145873
The last superhero comics that I consider classics are Robinson's The Shade and Mievelle's Dial H. I read a few issues of the new Shade the Changing Girl and am really looking forward to the trade coming out.

>>93139852
>Johns
>good ideas
There's nothing good about rainbow Lanterns, sbp punching time and space or Manhattan stealing ten years.

>>93139732
Johns basically started the nostalgia era. The guy is in charge of rebirth and most of the comics read like they've been ghost written by Johns.

>>93146150
>the nostalgia era
that was Kingdom Come and/or Morrison's JLA, though.

>>93146164
No it started with Barry and Hal coming back. Morrison's JLA is the peak of classic storytelling with modern sensibilities.

>>93145874
No, it's fine to not like the character. It's just all the hyperbolic language full of anger when people say how they feel on 4chan or on pretentious blogs like OP's, it strongly gives the impression of someone who's bitter and jaded and incapable of enjoying anything.

>>93146198
you say that like the Marvel Knights initiative and stuff like Ultimate Spider-man wasn't one big nostalgia appeal born out of the pushback to the Dark Age started by KC and JLA. And that ignores that like a year after Barry came back, DC rebooted their whole line to appeal to new readers rather than nostalgia.

>>93146208
Loving comics and finding Johns a terrible writer are not mutually exclusive.

>>93146274
I don't read Marvel but I don't know how you can view the era with the most legacy characters as the nostalgia era.

Typical NB, some good points dragged down by his attitude that art should make everyone agree with his views.

Just once I want to read "This art is fascist and it taught me why fascists have a point."

John's isn't profound but neither is his mentor Richard Dinner. He writes well made mindless entertainment like Star Wars or superhero movies but he's not the worst at that kind of entertainment and not everything needs to be challenging.

>>93146164
Kingdom come was just a throwback comic like Starman, Uncle Sam and JSA the Golden age.

>>93140665
Which imo makes him a good editor because he brainstorm some ideas that more skilled and smarter can execute.

>>93146341
> Richard Dinner

Donner, fucking autocorrect

>>93125085
Oh wow, it's fucking nothing. Sounds like a regurgitated review of 80's and 90's Marvel comics. I just love the armchair psycho-analysis from this hack reviewer. I'm not even defending Johns, he may be a little bad for all I know. But using the lazy phrase of "kiddie entertainment" just reeks of contempt for a medium simply because he thinks he can decide who the audience for it SHOULD be.

>>93146366
I think his best work was with Peter Tomasi editing (on JSA and the first years of GL). I wish Tomasi hadn't switched to writing, it hurt the books he left behind ( like Morrison Batman).

>>93146349
Kingdom Come was Mark Waid and Alex Ross bitching that muh superheroes were mean now

>>93146424
Morrison Batman didn't change at all.

>>93146624
The times are changing was a common trope in Cape comics back then.

>>93146366
Not if rebirth is anything to go by.

>>93146841
I felt the first year was more accessible & had a better balance between weird & mainstream than with Mike Marts editing, but it might just be the choices of artists.

>>93147139
It might just be that Batman and Son (and to a lesser extent Black Glove) is basically just a Silver-Age Batman story laying the foundation for the run.

>>93145686
>There's nothing interesting about middle school level existentialism and boilerplate tragedy.
But it has a lot more going for it than that anon.

>>93145648
>If you want to pretend like Tom King is a good writer
He is a good writer.
>and all other superhero comics ever made are bad
Never said that.

>>93147401
>He is a good writer.
Batman says otherwise.

>>93147589
and Alan Moore wrote Neonomicon

>>93147589
Are you serious nigga?

>>93146341
>Typical NB
Article is written by Matthew Brady, not Noah Berlatsky.

>>93145466
>unelected
they were here first

>>93147630
After decades of a great career. King had what, Grayson, Vision, Omega Men, and Sheriff of Nobody Cares before he fell?

>>93147358
How could I forgot the trite commentary of the nuclear family?

>>93148236
It still has more going for it.

>>93147401
>>93148205
All of those works are varying degrees of wildly overrated, and once the spotlight was on him and he is called up to the big leagues he's done nothing but repeatedly shit the bed for a year now.

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>Shitting on King's Vision
lmao I bet you also can't appreciate Flintstones.

>>93148276
Like falling back on nine panel layouts and repeating himself ad nauseum?

>>93148285
Prez was better.

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>>93148343
Prez died too young.

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>>93124874
>I am saying that if you're a grown ass adult who has enough of an academic background to analyze the shit out of a piece of fiction, it's probably best to put your energy toward something challenging and meant to be analyzed.

On a very paper thin surface level anon, you're correct. But then again you're on /co/, where we make it our business to be complete over analytical jackasses about everything because we have no purpose in life but to destroy

>>93148323
No you are still not there, do I need to direct you in right direction anon because you sound really intelligent and you wouldn't really need to be told obvious stuff since you obviously know a so much about critical analysis.

>>93148399
>where we make it our business to be complete over analytical jackasses about everything because we have no purpose in life but to destroy
I think we visit /co/ of alternate timelines or universes.

>>93148404
Crying robots? Senseless death? An intellectual climax featuring the entire Marvel universe trying to punch Vision?

>>93148205
>>93148282
Name of your 3 favorite capeshit writers of last 5 years. Don't take the easy way out.

>>93148500

>>93146140

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This triggers the Batfags.

>>93148469
No anon you are so smart, you've read so much about the critical theory, have written scholarly essays about your favorite books, have done so many intellectual podcast discussion , how could you miss something obvious.

>>93148521
>Mieville
Meme writer otherwise cool stuff.

>>93148553
You mean the obvious literary allusions and quotations crowbarred in to give the illusion of depth?

>>93148573
Literally only wrote one comic series ever.

>>93148610
Anon, just because you are on /co/ and never touch literature, doesn't mean everyone is like you.

>>93148590
Maybe it's time you learned about intertextuality. Also there's still more.

>>93148658
I'm aware that he's a fiction writer, I haven't been compelled to pick his stuff up yet as what I read didn't grab me, but as far as his comic work is concerned it's literally impossible for him to be a meme.

>>93148711
Using animal abuse as a substitute for crafting proper emotional beats?

>>93137742
Don't forget Batman Earth One vol. 1.
I don't know about vol 2 because after that piece of shit vol. 1 was, I don't plan to read it.

>>93148715
He's fine when it comes to /lit/ stuff but he is a meme writer. I'd say go for Embassytown, it's good all things considered.

>>93148795
I liked The City and The City.

>>93148745
It has a lot of Lacanian first order stuff as well as Freytag's interpretation of tragic narrative. First one might just be a byproduct of the writing and not wholly intentional but latter stuff is intentional. I'd say look it up.

>>93148755
see >>93148529

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>>93124015
> Reading Green Lantern for the complicated and mature plot

It's akin to reading Xena for the historic events.

Come on... I want to see things like space cat vomiting their anger and Green Lantern being an idiot,
>>93145422 is totally correct on this, we could fill an entire thread with pictures of the funny unlucky moments of the various Green Lanterns.

>>93148972
You took Psych 101 too King?

>>93150355
I... shouldn't have?

>>93150453
Nah there's a lot of good freshman ideas in there.

>>93150547
You seem to have first hand experience which makes me wonder why you missed it in the text.

>>93150716
Robots trying to mimic human behavior didn't seem like it was worth mentioning.

>>93145417
It truly is the most overrated comic of the past 5 years.

>>93148205
>Sheriff of Nobody Cares
I care...

as usual another thread of stupid people that like Johns deflecting any criticism and showing that they only like his comics because other people don't

>>93124874
>Criterion Collection

You know that's literally just a home video distributor, right? It's for poseurs. The actual collection is entirely arbitrary, the transfers are often inferior. It has shit like This Is Spinal Tap and Time Bandits purely because the fuckwits putting it together have nostalgia boners for that kind of shit. Wes Anderson must be a major shareholder because pretty much everything he ever made is in there. The fucking Darjeeling Limited is in there. Have you seen it? It's awful. It's Ben Stiller and some fart jokes short of being a goddamn Ben Stiller movie. Armageddon and The Rock are in there, as though Michael Bay's later works are somehow less worthy just because he's repeating himself cough WES ANDERSON cough. It's literally Some White Guy's College Collection.

The shame of it is that it spends so much time jizzing over certain directors that whoever's putting it together is clearly missing out on a lot of great cinema, and by extension so are those people buying the CC releases. I mean shit you might as well join a book of the month club for all the good it'd do you.

>>93124015
Hooded Utilitarian can never be wrong, it can only be "misinterpreted."

see >>93128550

>>93154722
That just makes me think of those articles Berlatsky wrote where it sounded like he was trying to cover his ass anytime it became obvious his other articles come off poorly researched.

>>93137713
And yet this thread is full of idiotic edgelords.