Superman vs Wonder Woman is always a bygone conclusion, correct?

>>93113749
Kinda depends on the circumstances, but Wondy does have a slight edge

Superman would win if he didn't hold back.

>>93113749
Wonder Woman isn't as strong as Superman but she has Magic weapons which is a hard counter to Superman, and rarely holds back when she's trying to bring someone down for real.

Clark's better nature would probably cause him to lose, which is why Batman abuses it to get cheap Kryptonite victories

Basically, if it was normal Wonder Woman vs normal Superman, Diana would probably win.

If Clark decided to go full blast without anything holding him back, he'd probably win. He's faster and stronger than Wonder Woman and if he ends the fight fast, it's in his favor.

If it's drawn out, Wonder Woman would win, because she can read the flow of battle better, and abuse tactics and magic to bring him down.

Of the Trinity, Diana is the hardest to bring down, but she's not the smartest or the strongest, but definitely has the most lasting power.

>>93113749
No holds barred no and no writer bias is Supes 100% of the time. He's faster, stronger, and more durable

I think Diana would win unless Clark went full Man of Steel, but I'd be curious about her vs Billy.

Billy's got the power, and the magic.

They're in a similar power tier so you could feasibly write her beating him without a large amount of bullshit, but it would include some kind of trick. Like using some fighting technique he hasn't seen or a gadget of some sort (even the lasso could work if you need to calm him or something).

But yeah he should generally win. The Max Lord fight said enough.

>>93113749

It's a comic book. Whoever the writer feels like will win.

>>93114131
>Magic weapons which is a hard counter to Superman
Yet Ares jobs to him every day and twice on Tuesday.
And Black Adam
And Shazam

Well, each character has two major misconceptions that colors peoples' answers to this:

People think Wonder Woman:
>is indestructible
>is some sort of master of combat

And people think Superman:
>doesn't know how to fight
>is "weak" to magic

So, though Wonder Woman DOES have an advantage in combat power because she is more trained than him, she's not some sort of karate master, and though the lasso DOES affect him normally, she'd have a hard time getting it around him.

And also though Wonder Woman can get hit by Superman because of her super-strong muscles, she's not gonna be able to take many hits.

The fact is, Superman is Superman for a reason. He's just the best there is.

>>93114176
They fought in War of the Gods, they were fairly evenly matched, but Diana had to stay on the defensive because she can't afford to get hit many times. She ended the fight by lassoing him.

If she had known about his secret identity, when he was lassoed she could have commanded him to say "Shazam" and that would have been it.

>>93114346
Poor writing lets Deathstoke beat the Flash, it doesn't mean it should happen.

In fiction, anyone can beat anyone else if the writer wants to write that way, it doesn't mean it makes any sense.

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>>93114256
She has most of his powers but is way better trained. She's a warrior with 5,000 years of experience fighting near-equals. He's a farmer boy.
Batman called her Superman's hard counter.

>>93114363

Diana is definitely a better fighter than Clark, but not a better fighter than Bruce, and she's tough but she can't take a full punch from Superman and not go reeling.

Clark's a really competent fighter too, but relies a little too much on his invulnerability.

Of the three, pound for pound, Superman is probably the most well rounded to cover for all of his weaknesses, and his powerset is just so hard to overcome without Magic or abusing Kryptonite.

I think that's why Superman is the best of the three. He's absurdly powerful yes, but has enough to cover for his more glaring weaknesses because he's Clever, Durable, and Powerful.

>>93114471
She doesn't have more experience in actual fights, she has only practiced significantly more. It's just theory that she hasn't applied yet and may have forgotten. The Amazons did not participate in wars after her birth.

She will have a few tricks up her sleeves, but she is not that much more actually experienced than him. Considering his LoSH adventures he might actually be more experienced than her in real fights.

>>93114471

Not many in the Justice League that could bring Diana down without ganging up on her.

It'd be a pretty short list. Maybe 5 people, all of them flying Bricks with extra powers.

>>93114471
OP here. That page is what made me start to wonder. I've also read the Max Lord fight wherein Diana was more or less just trying to hold him off. She was literally afraid in that battle.

Lets compare the two.

Superman
>Cultural Icon
>Everyone knows his backstory even if they never read comics
>Exists as the template for a super hero
>Doesn't exist in comparison to anyone but himself
>Writers will use the power of 5 year olds having an imagination fight to ensure Superman can literally not lose.
>Has even warped reality with his bare hands to survive the end of universes and recreated his reality with nothing more than super strength
>Writers have no sense of shame left for writing anything superman needs to win

Wonder Woman
>A literal who that most people didn't even, and probably still don't, know the exact powers of or how she gets them or if there is even a reason for them
>Backstory is ???? cause it keeps changing.
>Even the writers don't know what they want to do with her characterization anymore
>Her only point in existing anymore is to be a female version of superman without being obvious it's just a female superman
>Can only exist in comparison to Superman and not in her own right because of it
>Has been made a literal god at one point and still not accomplished the same things as Superman
>Hampered by the fact that the writers still have enough shame not to go kindergartner logic with her writing
>Will never have the moral high ground on other heroes cause she's often written as a killer rather than a cape

Oh geeze I wonder who wins.

>>93114575
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=n079MNojJJc

Wonder Woman. Superman has too much class to hit a woman.

>>93114471
>using Injustice to prove anything
Diana is only 22 when she leaves Themyscira. She doesn't have "5,000 years of experience".

She's well-trained but keep in mind she's trained ONLY in the Amazon forms of combat which amount to melee weapons and wrestling, not fucking karate and kung-fu.

Superman has also trained with Batman to learn basic martial arts.

Injustice is a million miles away from actual canon and Taylor doesn't know jack shit.

>>93114478
Everything you said is correct. He's the powerhouse of the three. I hate to say things like "Diana is the middle ground" because the trinity should theoretically be a triangle, not a spectrum, but in terms of powers/combat that's what she is.

>>93114575
That's a good way to put it. She can't match up to the raw power of the big guys for her but everyone else can't touch her.

>>93114636
Retard alert.

>>93114623

Max can control minds, can't he?

>Superman is weak to magic
>Magic is a kryptonite level hard counter
How to spot a pleb 101
Not being invulnerable =/= Weakness

>>93114687
That was the entire point of that scene. Max mind controlled Superman.

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>>93114680
>Retard alert.
The truth hurts, doesn't it?

>>93114723
More specifically Max made Superman think he was fighting Doomsday so he wouldn't hold back

>>93114723
It definitely wouldn't be a clean fight but I think if Wonder Woman can keep him from chucking her into the sun and change the tide of battle, she'd win.

Then again, if Clark gets the drop on anyone, it's game over, he wins.

>>93114706
He's still highly resistant to magic. What would turn a man to ash would cause him slight burns that heal away in a minute.

>>93114775
It depends. If it's a spell to transform to ashes it would still turn him to ashes. If it's just a magically produced blast of energy it would behave like any blast of energy against Superman (meaning jack shit would happen).

>>93113749
They fight in League of One. Diana won.
She had a much harder time when Max Lord took over, mostly because Clark thought he was fighting Doomsday, who just killed Lois. Still, she managed to hold him off long enough to get to Max Lord and break his neck. And still had the energy to deal with a whole bunch of other crazy bullshit.

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Actually, you know what, let's just read the issue, because aside from the contrived "moral dilemma" at the end, it's a good issue.

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>>93114723
>>93114623
She kinda won that fight though.

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Now just keep in mind this was at the beginning of someone at DC going full-retard and trying to push Wonder Woman as invulnerable and using weapons. So this issue managing to bypass that idiocy is a blessing.

>>93114744
He's calling you retarded because the point of this kind of thread is to bring up canon feats to fit the scenario. It is not to list off meta bullshit. But you're not the only idiot here who doesn't get that.

>>93114840

No, Diana's plan in League of One was to put the rest of the JLA into escape pods with limited oxygen, so Clark would have a choice between fighting her, or saving them.

Even if Diana won t hat fight, she needed to be at top strength to fight the Dragon.

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>>93114888
Also his post reads like a list of average Wonder Woman bait posts.

>>93114866

It just kind of ends before it gets too bad.

And then she breaks Max's neck.

>>93114866
She literally did not. He only stopped because she lassoed Max. At that point the connection is severed and he's coming back to himself.

It's being posted now anyway though.

Why is Diana the only one who bothers calling Superman Kal besides Kara?

Everyone else just calls him Clark, right?

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Yes, Rucka writes her invulnerability really bizarrely between this putting her hands over his eyes and her containing a grenade explosion in her hands.

Dunno why they didn't just have her put her bracelets in front of his eyes.

>>93114935
Because it's some bullshit about her not understanding his humanity.

Logically she should call him the name he relates to the most. He can't be the only person she's ever met who changed their name. Other people are adopted and get married all the time.

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>>93114935
Two things:

1) For whatever reason Perez completely contradicted everything he was doing with the character to have Diana be interested in Clark as a god

2) Kingdom Come decided she was a power-hungry cunt and that this meant she should call Clark by his god name or some shit

It's really, REALLY dumb and completely OOC.

>>93114935
Those two aren't integrated into human society properly. They address the Kryptonian, rather than the human persona.

>>93114961
I always chalked that up to her semi-divine nature, like Herc in Marvel.

>>93114888
I understand that, but the only thing that matters is the meta bullshit and you know it. Comic book writers don't care about writing. They care about who can wank directly in to their pages the fastest.

If there was some kind of integrity or standard towards writing consistency in american comics, I might agree.

>>93113749
Almost every time Superman fights another hero he is made a jobber just to make the story more interesting, saying this as a Batfag.

If no holds barred, what could stop him from flying at the light of speed right through her chest?

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My explanation for why she can take hits from Superman is just "it's magic, I ain't gotta explain shit".

If you're really, tactile telekinesis-levels of autistic, just think of it as that fan-theory that piercing weapons can bypass Demeter's magic because phalluses or something.

>>93115013
Exactly.

>>93114961
>>93115006
>>93114986

I guess that's what I like about Bruce's relationship with him more. He's always Clark to him. Or when he means business, Kent.

>>93115038
The fact that everyone knows and accepts the meta layer means we don't need to dwell on it or have it come up in every thread to begin with.

It's like how this entire conversation is ultimately based on how strongly you personally perceive the feats to be. It's all opinion in the end. But we don't need to literally state that because we understand it and we don't have autism.

>>93115059
This kind of thing to make her "stand out" generally is mostly why I don't buy into the Trinity thing. She just doesn't get them the way they get each other. Her friendship isn't as important.

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Diana:
>WOW SUPERMAN IS SO OP NOTHING'S EVEN A CHALLENGE TO HIM

>>93114471
>Injustice

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Also Diana being able to move completely silently is from Artemis' blessing and is often overlooked, though there's rarely an opportunity for her to use it.

>>93115101
A lot of writers really get Wonder woman understanding Bruce, but Clark less so, I think.

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>>93115101
I agree. I recently discovered that the concept of the trinity only started around 1998 and it was actually the first issue of Eric Luke's run that's credited for coining the phrase.

It doesn't even completely make sense in the first place because Aquaman ALSO survived the Golden Age and actually predates Wonder Woman.

>>93115011
With Kara it's just that she has likely spent more time from her perspective thinking of him as Kal vs Clark but you'll see her actively correct herself most of the time unless they're in suited up in public. She's not valuing the Kryptonian name more or whatever.

She shouldn't be able to even hurt him. Bitch gets murked by bullets.

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It would have been kind of interesting if the trinity was Wonder Woman/Aquaman/Martian Manhunter as the three GA characters on the original League, like how Barry and Hal are BFFs.

Though I suppose Wonder Woman had her own title while Aquaman was in Adventure Comics and J'onn was in Detective.

>>93115238
They should stop fucking around and just do WW/Flash/GL since she was buddies with Jay and Alan.

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See, IMO Wonder Woman's combat focuses on subduction it's a real word, I had to look it up. Wrestling, parrying, and obviously binding.

>>93113749
If Wondy can be hurt by bullets, she is BTFO HARD by Superman.

>>93115071
That's nice and all, but Wondy is so inconsistent that the only thing to her is her meta layer. Writers can't even decide who or what she is. So much about her gets changed so often. I want to like her, but I can't help wondering if everyone is better off starting from zero to make something not bogged down by decades of indecision.

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>>93115293
Well, that opens up the whole debate of Wonder Woman's role in the GA which has been going on since Byrne opened it up, the fool.

Though I think you're referring to Hal and Barry.

>>93114075
No she doesn't the only times she ever wins is when superman doesn't want to fight and shes goes full warrior kicking him in the nuts style.

>>93115315
>t. has only read WW in team books

>>93114346
>>93114131
>>93114407
It doesn't hard counter him you fucking retard he can just feel it, a fire ball isn't going to OHKO superman or even damage him he's just going to fucking feel it for once.

>>93115349
You realize that the vast gap in portrayal between her books and the team books is part of the problem?

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>>93115315
Really, dude. Don't say this if you haven't actually read her comics.

What you're saying is a misconception spawned by having three reinventions in five years that were all flops. Things keep returning to her post-Crisis form because that's the one that resonates with people.

There was the Heinberg/Picoult thing, the JMS thing and the Azzarello thing all in quick succession and I think it lead everyone to falsely think that kind of constant state of flux was normal for her. It's just not true. From Perez in '87 up to Infinite Crisis she's incredibly consistent, and defined by long runs with single writers.

>>93114623
Is Injustice, not count.

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>>93115378
I mean, is it really her fault people who write her in team books don't bother reading her main books?

Batman is alternately depicted as Batgod and O'Neil Batman who gets his ass handed to him by three random mooks, but nobody ever complains about that.

Now we have a big movie that more or less sticks to her post-Crisis version faithfully, so I think things will get a lot better for her in her non-solo appearances.

>>93115325

I hope she talks to animals in the movies at some point lol.

>>93115378
For literally every character the solo reigns supreme. There's not much inconsistency there. What you're suggesting is that they disrupt the solo because of errors elsewhere. That's insane.

How about we just get editors who can tell writers when they need to do research to improve? Johns didn't do amazing with her at any point but once he actually read some of her comics he wrote her fine. It's not hard to fix.

Writers are scared to show Superman whooping her ass in 2 hits, what would happen if they fought

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>>93115456
Me too. It's such a great power.

This is why the push post-IC for her to be more Superman-like pisses me off (and pissed Rucka off, too), she has all these great powers that only her own writers seem to remember (probably because they actually do their research).

And to be fair even I forget about the tiara. Not used nearly enough despite being awesome. Wonder Woman with weapons other than her tiara and lasso is counter-productive.

>>93115403
Even in those runs I think it's more about her mythology changing around her than the actual character. Status quo shakeups are not unique to anyone though.

>>93115456
I feel like they hinted at it when she said she could help the horses listen to the people.

>>93113749
Dude, if supes was letting go of the no kill schtick, he'd just fry her like bacon the second she lets her guard down.

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>>93115520
But I don't think her mythology changes. The only one who did try to change her backstory was WML and everyone ignored that.

(For reference he altered the Amazons' history and made a retcon that Diana doesn't have her powers when on Themyscira, literally no one ever referenced these again).

Aside from that, Themyscira's history and their relationship with the gods is always the same.

>>93115403
>I think it lead everyone to falsely think that kind of constant state of flux was normal for her
At least you've acknowledged there is a problem with her wider public perception. Thank you. Whatever her character needs to be, it needs to stick to it for a good long time to cement her in public perception.

>>93115441
>>93115476
Sadly Wondy really isn't in the position luxury where her portrayals can be so off focus.

>>93115441
take a second to laugh at the fact that Max clearly thought his powers would beat the lasso and he'd maintain control

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And here's the dumb contrived ending that did as much damage to the character as Kingdom Come.

>>93115596
Her biggest problem is a lack of a solid portrayal in multimedia, IMO. Like it or not that's what people will always go back to and serves as a way to unify all portrayals.

The movie's success is a great thing because of this. Everyone can easily look at that movie and say "that's Wonder Woman" without ever having to read a comic, which as we all know people will often refuse to do.

>>93115574
I guess I don't mean backstory exactly but people see drastic changes like JMS or even going further back O'Neil and assume that means that the writers are changing her when her personality wasn't too different. It's just status quo stuff around her.

>>93115519
Okay I'm not sure if even Superman could survive having his neck gouged out, but he's not gurgling and choking on his own blood so I don't know.

I suspect a lack of knowledge on how little of the neck isn't a vital point.

>>93115664
I feel like it didn't need to especially with all the Identity Crisis shit going on around the same time. But the takeaway was "she's the one who kills" which is pretty lazy.

>>93115696
I think it was just another distraction like the birds. He's still able to speak so it's not that dangerous of a cut.

>>93115664
Here's hoping. I'm no longer interested in movies of any sort, as I prefer reading, but I wouldn't mind a blockbuster doing some good for once.

I'm never 100% sure whether or not you guys are trolling or seriously arguing if Wonder Woman can beat Superman, you know, that one alien who is basically indestructible, can fly up to the stars at lightspeed and open black holes with his punches because his strength and power challenges the laws of physics.

>>93115738
The movie wasn't bad, but it was kind of a generic WW origin so if you've read any of the recent ones it won't do anything for you.

>>93115738
Yeah. While I think it's a bit sad that the movie is being so widely praised for basically being your average Hollywood blockbuster instead of a clusterfuck like BvS/SS, I'm glad it's something uncontroversial that can serve as a baseline.

I feel you on not being interested in movies. Honestly I only went because my mom bought me a ticket.

>>93115792
Though I'll add that Steve was really hot so it might be worth it for that.

>>93115749
I'm ultimately torn on all discussions of this nature. I despise Superman's powers for being so powerful that they turn something as cool as super strength, flight, and laser eyes in to something boring. On the other hand, as a person Superman is compelling and amazing. I hate having to discuss him 'fairly' in a versus thread, but I ultimately love the character.

>>93115824
I just don't like movies. I don't think I ever really did. I'll watch movies with others as I enjoy hanging with friends and talking about things, but left on my own I prefer reading and comics.

>>93113749
"Foregone conclusion".

That's all, back to the sensible arguing about which fictional character could take the other if you were writing them.

>>93115792
>>93115824
>>93115738
>>93115664

So was she literally the child of Zeus and her mother, like in the Azzarello version? Ares says "the child he [Zeus] had with the queen of the amazons" but I'm not sure how literal that is.

It would make sense why Hippolyta was so distrusting and adds another layer to her big secret.

>>93115948
I like it better than the MADE OF MUD backstory, personally. Then again, the mud story makes for some good jokes.

>>93115054
>tactile telekinesis-levels of autistic
I chuckled.

>>93115948
It's ambiguous really. Azz directly said there was an affair, but the movie doesn't do that.

Basically she is told something like the clay origin but unlike with Azz it's mentioned that Zeus was involved (similar to the JLU one). Then she finds out he's her father and the godkiller. It could just be that he made her his daughter when he created her rather than actual sex. I was looking for hints toward a relationship when I was watching, but nothing was given imo.

>>93115948
Yes, but they didn't really go too far in detail about it.

I really don't like it but it is what it is. It's a bit sad because it means that's probably what the canon is gonna be forever now, despite how iconic the clay origin is and how many beautiful depictions of the scene there have been.

superman prime one million. check mate wonderwoman

>>93116134
I think ultimately it matters for Hippolyta more than Diana. Her longing for a child and being blessed with one is the key there. Having it be an accidental conception kind of misses the point, but if they fuck just to conceive then I don't terribly mind. It needs to be an active want not just pleasant a side effect. Though yeah, normal childbirth definitely isn't as cool of a visual.

>>93116211
As long as no one is stupid enough to bring up the Thought Robot I'm good.

>>93116269
the writer

>>93114680
>Superman has also trained with Batman to learn basic martial arts.
Unless I missed something this was pre New52. Clark is back to throwing haymakers with reckless abandon and clumsy grappling like a typical farmer boy. Diana's metahuman makeup and years of combat experience is usually the trump card people pull when it comes to her defeating Superman. You have experience and fighting sense against someone who can apply their powers with precision and focus but beyond that aspect is just swinging like a mad man. Diana is written so that her experiences on the Island and abroad is what has shaped her as a trained fighter since she was a small child. Clark and Bruce didn't have it the same. She's been engaging enemies for longer than they've been active superheroes--far before she becomes Wonder Woman.

That's the attitude the narrative tends to take when it comes to her. Diana's combat experience > Clark's fighting ability. Also the fact that Diana would seek to end the contest as swiftly as possible while Clark would *always* hold himself back. We all know if he was written as one-shotting Diana or all of his enemies that it'd be expected.

>>93116211
In DC One Million Diana becomes a literal goddess. And not in the half-assed Byrne or New 52 way, like a true metaphysical god.

>>93114363
Didn't she fight him in Flashpoint Paradox?

>>93114131
>He's faster and stronger than wonder woman

And has fucking eye lasers, arctic breath, and can survive in the vacuum of space.

>>93114363
>He's just the best there is.

Except for being slower than the Flash.

>>93115970
>I like it better than the MADE OF MUD backstory, personally.

Yeah I like that version best. Hippolyta tired of them not having any new Amazons and praying to the gods for a baby. Also I like it better when it's the female gods who give Diana her powers. It just seems more consistent with what the Amazons are all about.

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>>93117791
Really?

>>93113749
No holding back Supes is nearly unstoppable. You need cosmics or NonJobbing Flash.

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>>93113749
No holds barred? Superman wins in seconds.

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>>93117791
>Except for being slower than the Flash.

haha

>>93118772
>NonJobbing Flash.

No mental blocks Superman is several tiers above Flash.

>>93119046
Those were for charity, Clark.

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>>93118081
>>93119046
That's cute

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>>93119186

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just depends on the story. none of this shit is cannon. DC and Marvel universes are a fucking mess. none of this shit is cannon.

>both super strong
>both super tough
>supers is super fast
>wonder woman is not

I can't see how writers keep making her even able to touch superman
she has never been shown to have super speed, so why does supes keep letting himself get hit?

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>>93113749
Even if she was as strong, Superman has a bunch of superpowers that outclass her. She couldnt even win if she had the element of suprise. This happened once and she had to kill who was mind controlling Superman since she couldnt win. So yea, its pretty conclusive.

>>93115361
>>93114131
You fucking people need to learn how Superman's "weakness" to magic works. It's not that he feels a magic blast or that it's somehow more effective or some shit against him. A fireball spell would do fuck all to him just as a flamethrower would. Superman has no magical resistances. So that Harry Potter Kill Spell would kill him. A sword enchanted as such to cut through any material could kill him. A sword enchanted to deal +99 fire damage doesn't do anything because Superman is a damage sponge.

>>93120498
To be fair a lot of writers are retarded and make him weak to magic like a fucking Pokemon. I think Busiek made a rant about this once.

>>93120226
>she has never been shown to have super speed
Dude, literally the very first page of Sensation Comics #1 it says "agility of Mercury". It has always, literally always been one of her powers.

>>93120763
>It has always, literally always been one of her powers.

In that case my question chagnes. Why do comic writers forget about that?
I have read plenty of justice league comics (and cartoons), and they never show her running at super speed. Maybe they do that in her own comics, but it seems to me that people forget about that ability when she appears in other comics.

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>>93120828
I don't know what to tell you, because I see that ALL the time. Not as fast as Flash or Superman usually, but she always has super speed when she needs it.

In addition to the reflexes which is what she normally uses.

>>93120856
why does she even deflect bullets anyway
can't she tank them

>>93120905
They'd make her boobs jiggle.

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>>93120905
No.

But post-Infinite Crisis DC decided she had to be more like Superman and be invulnerable.

This has been retconned.

>>93120920
I now want to see that happening

>>93120945
interesting.
I mean, biologically, it doesn't make much sense, if she can take a superman punch without it going trough and leaving a gaping hole in her stomach, she should be able to take a bullet. The kinetic energy of a super punch is far superior to one of a bullet.

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>>93118081

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>>93119186
Superman chooses to limit his speed in an atmosphere because he ha no speed force hacks preventing collateral damage. He also flies faster than he runs. So yeah, those races mean nothing, but not for the reason you think.

>B-but to Flash Superman is a statue, m-muh attosecond
Superman doesn't always have his senses dialed up to full speed, but he can if he chooses to.

So, anything else? Literally anything else you'd like to try?

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>>93121117
What was that again?

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>>93121284
And yet, he couldn't even catch some bullets.

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>>93114880
>you look good on your knees
That's the kind of continuity I like.

>>93121377
PIS

>>93114346

>black adam

Only new Black Adam. Before, they were pretty evenly matched.

>Shazam

Only new Shazam.

There's a reason in Kingdom Come that Superman shit himself when Captain Marvel showed up and it wasn't the enormous penis bulge that was in the middle of the panel.

>>93114471

>hard counter

He's faster, stronger, tougher, has more options and generally better in every category other than outright skill, which is entirely authors conjecture since Superman has trained with Batman and knows every single kryptonian martial art, which amounts to knowing Hokuto Shinken.

WW only wins because they NEED her to do something. Superman is better on every fundamental level.

Without her god sword and rope, he literally can't lose. WW just can't hurt him.

The only legitimate rivals for YEARS were Captain Marvel and J'onn.

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>>93118081
Zoom jobs a lot, and has been caught by Wonder Woman, Green Lantern and fucking Liberty Bell.

>>93120995
It's pretty dumb. The fight here is moot because Superman pushes his pinky into her frontal lobe and she's finished

Sun dipping superman is a thing.
He easily can beat her.

>>93121284
Flash has shown been and acknowledged to be faster than multiple time, not sure how delusional you have to be to think otherwise.

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>>93121722
forgot pic

>>93115327
No, she beat him when Maxwell Lord was mind-controlling him to see her as Doomsday and thus fighting to kill with all of his powers and rationality intact. Still kind of bullshit, though.

>>93121345
>meanwhile flash literally outruns the concept of death

>>93115192
Aquaman isn't remotely as important as the other three.

It's like Captain America, Iron Man, and Thor being the Big Three of the Avengers ignoring that Giant-Man and Wasp were there at the start (and the Hulk, for 1.5 issues!) and that Captain America wasn't even a founder.