Oooooh god....they're gonna fuck up his return in Justice

>>93011997
Yes you have atleast one movie of evil supes to look forward to.

Wonder Woman's been putting Mouseketeers on suicide watch all fucking week.

I've become convinced that Snyder in fact does not hate Superman, he just so thoroughly misunderstands him that you can interpret his take on him as malicious.

>>93012028
Didn't we already get two?

File: 1407299500887.png (59KB, 415x423px) Image search: [Google]

59KB, 415x423px

>>93011997
This is alarmingly plausible.

>>93011997
>Because we can't have his return involve saving the League in a big glorious moment, can we?
God, I hope not. Brainwashed Superman would be meh, but at least we'd get some interesting character play. It'd be far superior to just making Superman the ending of the movie. I'm glad /co/ doesn't write these things.

>>93011997
>Main hero turns against his friends

This is going to be so overdone by the time this movie releases (If they do go with this)

>>93012124
>Widespread criticism towards Superman being a dark, broody, boring, fucking asshole, who doesn't act like the charming, upbeat and optimistic character people love.
>Thinking double downing on their mistakes by making Superman an antagonist is a better idea, than having him be good.

They're going to find out the parademons kidnapped his body because they knew he wasn't dead.
Cue them staging a rescue.
My guess would be they stop them mid-brainwashing, and he spends about 30 seconds with his hands around Batman's throat before calming down.

It'll be that scene in JL Origins

>>93012230
Just make him upbeat and optimistic when he's back. Imagine if we got something like an inner monologue explore his mind as he's fighting against the brainwash.
I'd rather take Superman resurrecting and escaping to the League, where he then interacts with the team for the second half of the movie, but I'd be fine as long as it's a well made plot. Using Superman as an auto win button for the final fight would be the most predictable, disappointing thing ever and he'd be totally overshadowed by the interaction of every other character in the film.

>>93011997
>Oooooh god....
Kill yourself

>>93012394
>Just make him upbeat and optimistic when he's back.

You mean after Batman and Wonder Woman beat the fucking shit outta him? BvS 2.0 I guess...

> Using Superman as an auto win button for the final fight would be the most predictable

Nobody is suggesting that. Nobody expects Superman to show up, bunch Steppenwolf, and then the credits roll. But his return should be a moment of hope and awesomeness. It should be this grand epic moment that steals the whole show, and inspires the league to keep on fighting. It shouldn't be him being a fucking villain.

>>93012394
I respectfully disagree with your opinion. But i'm afraid you are objectively wrong.

>>93012394
>he'd be totally overshadowed by the interaction of every other character in the film.

The fact that he's dead for most of the movie, mean that that was gonna happen anyway.

File: 1230998777943.jpg (817KB, 2000x1105px) Image search: [Google]

817KB, 2000x1105px

I fucking hate being a Superman fan these days. Batman and Wonder Woman get all the good movies and enjoy all the glory and love, while we continue to get shit on.

>>93012103
He was chaotic good in MoS. He was true nuetral in BvS.

>>93012510
>You mean after Batman and Wonder Woman beat the fucking shit outta him? BvS 2.0 I guess...
If it takes the entire League to subdue him, that'd be pretty awesome.
> But his return should be a moment of hope and awesomeness.
I wouldn't mind that, but I also wouldn't mind if he came back struggling. I just want him to develop over the course of the movie as a character and interact with the JL using his NDE and powers.
>>93012542
Damn, sorry to disappoint.
>>93012568
Not if he becomes a central character when he's back. That's all I ask for. I don't mind if he's brainwashed at first, I just want to see more of him in action.

>>93012645
Well, watch the original Superman. That is still a hell of a good movie.

>>93012672
He's had TWO MOVIES to develop. I'm fucking sick of all this wasted time with him "developing." He should have been mostly developed by the end of Man of Steel.

>>93012646
>true neutral

nigga was saving people left and right, and in MoS the first thing he did was turn himself in. If anything he is Lawful Good.

>>93012672
>Damn, sorry to disappoint.

I bet your parents hear that very often.

>>93012672
They have barely developed him in the last 2 movies you think JL is any different? I don't see why he can't beat upbeat and optimistic and still have spcharacter development. Look at Cap in Marvel

>>93012686
Anon that shit was 40 years ago. You're not in any way ticked off that in 4 decades we haven't gotten another great Superman film?

>>93012672
>I just want him to develop over the course of the movie as a character and interact with the JL using his NDE and powers

Who says he can't if he came back good?

File: superman (1).jpg (101KB, 615x834px) Image search: [Google]

101KB, 615x834px

>>93012672
No more self doubting, no more brooding, no more inner conflict, no more philosophizing of about the nature of gods and men, no more no more. It's time for Superman to be fucking Superman.

>>93012719
You're sick of character development? That's literally a staple of every good movie though. I don't want Superman to be treated like Shepard from Mass Effect 2, where he comes back from death totally normal and is just ready to do his job. I want us to sympathize with the character and his love for humanity- which as you've stated has been clearly developed by the end of BvS. But his personality should still develop.
Maybe being near death makes him more worrisome? Maybe he's more sarcastic and aloof? I want to see all that happen and more through his interactions with the team.
>>93012736
Why are you being so hostile?
>>93012739
They developed him a lot in the past two movies dude. And not once did I say he shouldn't be upbeat. I'd be totally fine if he came back in a moment of hope, but I'd also be fine if he came back brainwashed or exhausted so long as we get to see him play off the League as, well, Superman.
>>93012782
I don't know, not me.

>>93012749
Not really.

If Superman doesn't buttfuck Wonder Woman in the pussy, we riot

>>93012839
>Why are you being so hostile?

Because I can.

>>93012829
>no more inner conflict
>no more philosophy
But I love Superman stories where he goes through that stuff. Peace on Earth, for example, is one of my all time favorites. I agree that he shouldn't be brooding and self doubting anymore, and should instead resemble the confidence and charisma of comic Superman, but that doesn't mean he's devoid of inner conflict or any room for character growth.
Seriously, I don't know what I've done to piss off so many people in this thread. I just said that I want to see a lot of Superman's interaction and development with the League, not "he should literally be Darkseid with an S on his chest for the majority of the movie"

>>93012839
>You're sick of character development?

I'm sick of us having to wait for movie after movie for Clark to "really" become Superman. One might argue it's a betrayal of the character's core, because Superman in the comics has his values instilled in him from his childhood by his parents. Of course that doesn't work in the DCEU because Pa Kent is a sociopath.

>>93012829
>nature of gods and men

Honestly, I just don't understand why see him as a god?

Clark is not a god and should not be written as one, Morrison be dammed.

File: 1461073106343.jpg (74KB, 1543x1360px) Image search: [Google]

74KB, 1543x1360px

>>93012951
>Clark is not a god

then why is he still alive?

>>93012941

Pa Kent wasn't a sociopath, though.

>>93012979
He was in a healing coma. What, you never been in a healing coma before?
Fuckin nerd.

>>93012858
Well I am, because Superman 1978, hasn't aged well.

>>93012979
Kryptonian physiology. Nothing supernatural about an extremophile surviving things that would normally kill a human.

>>93011997
Of course it'll happen. But oddly this Brainwashed Superman will be stoic and smiling.

>>93012645

Wonder Woman got the Clark Kent disguise and love interest bullet rescue homage in her own movie. Based Patty likes the classic mold, and more will follow her example.

>>93012782
>Who says he can't if he came back good?
He is DEAD. He can't become good in Justice League because we can't even give him offscreen development. There is no time for Superman to develop when it is a team up film with multiple characters. He was suppose to have been developed already, and now he wouldn't be even after THREE films. THREE!

>>93013601
Anon why are you so impatient. Remember, this Superman is just starting out. Give them two or three more movies. Four max. Then we'll finally get some semblance of the iconic version of Superman.

Maybe.

Probably not though.

>>93012882

Implying Steve Trevor's grand-cousin won't claim it.

>>93012645
Superman and his family of comics is some of the best of Rebirth right now. Honestly that matters more.

File: IMG_3198.jpg (147KB, 1087x1200px) Image search: [Google]

147KB, 1087x1200px

>>93011997
>Superman is brainwashed for 2/3 of the movie
>snaps out of after the combined force of Wonder Woman, The Flash, Aquaman and Cyborg beating the shit out of him
>punches Steppenwolf through a boom tube back to Apokolips and goes home to smash Lois in the tub

This is going to happen.

>Jose Whedon finishes the post production directing and reshoots
>movie features heroes being brainwashed by bad guys
Poetry

>>93011997
I love that Superman is doing well in the realm of comics, but he is doomed in the movie universe. Lex was horribly mishandled, Zod and Doomsday were wasted, his supporting cast nonexistent and they already played up his death and return less than 5 movies in.

Batman can take a bad movie, he has bounced back from worse, Wonder Woman is doing fantastic and I expect the same of Aquaman come 2018. We're in for the new Super trinity: Batman, Wonder Woman and Aquaman.

>>93012893
Loser

>>93014129

It will be Batman, Wonder Woman and Harley Quinn after Gotham City Sirens.

>>93011997
>Oooooh god....they're gonna fuck up his return in Justice League aren't they?
Well...they fucked it up in MOS so it's not like it's gonna be a surprise.

>>93012103
No.

>>93011997
>Brainwashed Superman
I'd start preparing yourself for much worse than that.

The rumor is that he chooses to join Steppenwolf of his own free will after he shows him some fake visions of Batman saving himself and allowing Lois to die. We're going full Injustice.

>>93012645
At least the current Supes comics are great.

>>93014593
>the rumor
http://www.pajiba.com/think_pieces/an-open-letter-to-warner-bros-ceo-kevin-tsujihara-about-layoffs-zack-snyder-and-donuts.php

>>93014593
I'd be incredibly hype for a full on none sugarcoated Injustice movie

But you know they'd leave out so many characters

>>93011997
>Brace yourselves for Brainwashed Superman


So just like they did in the cartoon. Cool, can't wait!

>>93012719
Man of Steel is the only movie where I've seen someone go "he's not the guy yet"
Like, imagine if at the end of Batman Begins we had a bunch of people saying "he's not Batman yet!" Imagine if Wonder Woman ended with Diana not suiting up in her armor. That's what we have to deal with with Superman.

Just because the red undies are gone does not mean you can blue ball me this hard.

"Lemme tell you a story about horses screaming and drowning while I enjoyed some cake. Damn good cake too."

"You too, dad."

>>93015238
>Man of Steel is the only movie where I've seen someone go "he's not the guy yet"
>Like, imagine if at the end of Batman Begins we had a bunch of people saying "he's not Batman yet!" Imagine if Wonder Woman ended with Diana not suiting up in her armor. That's what we have to deal with with Superman.
>Just because the red undies are gone does not mean you can blue ball me this hard.
At this point I am sick of waiting. I would be willing to accept DC simply retcon everything and just have Superman being the superhero he is suppose to be, and pretend that he was always this way. Do a soft reboot and pretend he was always the greatest hero of Earth and had been for years.

I rather that they just break continuity rather than drag out his non-existent development. Just make him a hero in Judtice League and I will not question how he changed so much.

>>93011997
I think so but not in the way we're expecting they will.

>>93015607
Just do what I did. Quit.
When Superman Classic finally shows up, jump back in then and only then. Probably around 2030 at the rate they're going.

>>93015238

But... Superman was Superman in MoS and BvS.

>>93015758
>But... Superman was Superman in MoS and BvS.
Even Snyder himself claimed that Superman wasn't ready to be a hero after MoS. That he was suppose to become Superman later. But then it never happened because MoS2 was delayed and BvS was a Batman movie.

>>93015855

I still think that Clark was pretty much Superman in BvS.

>>93015862
>I still think that Clark was pretty much Superman in BvS.
Then it is too bad that Clark Kent is now dead.

>>93015758
no he was some kinda Ultraboy, growing into Ultraman

>>93011997
Who cares? It's Snyderverse.

>>93015937

That's not really true.

File: 1449368273250.jpg (3MB, 3574x2100px) Image search: [Google]

3MB, 3574x2100px

He's been in two movies and has very little to say in both. He's not a character. Characters have emotions, go through arcs, this guy is a straight faced fuck boy who's most memorable line and scene have nothing to do with Truth, Justice or anything even resembling the two. People remember him for "Martha. You need to save Martha" and dying.

Fuck you, DCEU Superman.

>>93016155

Nothing you say is right, bro.

>>93016215
If the nigga can smell through space, he can fuck Wondy's pussy's ass.

File: do what.jpg (32KB, 538x555px) Image search: [Google]

32KB, 538x555px

>>93012882
>buttfuck Wonder Woman in the pussy
>buttfuck
>in the pussy

>>93016155
you're right. he should just instantly be the experienced superman we know and love. he shouldnt learn or struggle at all with his humanity. he should just be a perfect human with no problems.

File: 1279829148749.jpg (9KB, 235x267px) Image search: [Google]

9KB, 235x267px

>>93016229
I think you have a problem with your anatomy. Did you ever try to kick your Biology teacher in the nuts because she flunked you?

>>93016268

> he shouldnt learn or struggle at all with his humanity. he should just be a perfect human with no problems.

Yes because storytelling is a zero sum game where it's either Snyder or Donner.

Batman Begins managed to tell a compelling character-focused drama about Bruce Wayne and be a Batman movie at the same time. Bruce went through more of an arc in Begins then Clark has in two fucking movies.B

>>93016268
>you're right. he should just instantly be the experienced superman we know and love. he shouldnt learn or struggle at all with his humanity. he should just be a perfect human with no problems.
Actually, yes. Because we had two, and soon to be THREE films where he learned nothing.

At this point you either give us Superman or just give up already. We don't need a Superman who still couldn't do his job after three films. Wonderwoman achieved it in one film. So did Batman. Does Clark Kent have a learning disability, that he he needed multiple films to reached what other characters had already reached in one?

File: SuperSad.gif (2MB, 500x250px) Image search: [Google]

2MB, 500x250px

>>93012103

File: Hulk disgusted.jpg (81KB, 708x660px) Image search: [Google]

81KB, 708x660px

>>93012882
>Superman
>Buttfucking anyone other than Lois in the Pussy
You don't deserve to use the meme.

>>93012719

MoS is literally him putting the costume on for the very first time and just learning to fly and the next day there is already an alien invasion. BvS is about Superman learning to live with the fact that being a superhero means you can't always save everyone and your actions will inevitably have unintended political consequences. How are these things bad? You sound like you want him just immediately walk out of the spaceship as an adult Superman who knows everything about his powers and never fucks up or has internal struggle, like a feel good 60s Saturday morning cartoon.

>>93016268
It shouldn't take nearly half a dozen movies for a character named Superman to become Superman.

At this point only a retcon of the character or having Steel take his place would feel satisfying and fit into the Superman sized hole in DC movies.

>>93016432

He learned plenty in both movies, anon.

>>93016274
>>93016236 started it

>>93016499

> How are these things bad?

Because the execution is terrible. We have no sense of what adult Clark is like as a character because the first half of the movie's format treats him like the fucking Sasquatch that Amy Adams has to track down. We don't know anything about Clark as an adult man beyond vague "daddy issues" in MoS, so his transition into Superman is meaningless.

You fanboys keep claiming that the arc for Clark is some deep metaphysical exploration when in fact it's so worthless that Snyder has to glue a bunch of meaningless religious and mythological iconography onto his version of the character as a shorthand for character development.

>>93015855
>But then it never happened

Based on what, your retarded fanboy head canon? Superman saves lives in BvS and ultimately sacrifices himself selflessly to save the world even after thw world basically had turned its back on him. How is that not Superman? Oh right, because he's not got a permanent rictus on his face 24/7 like a psycopath and everything isn't treated like throwback to the 70s where it's super campy and people just go "oh my gosh that superman sure is a swell guy!" even after he could have caused world war III by stealing all nuclear weapons from Earth and throwing them to the sun on a whim.

MoS was about Clark growing up from being a guy from Kansas with strange powers and trust issues searching his purpose on Earth to a superhero who embraces his destiny and puts his faith in the people of the world so together the world could be saved. The character arc in BvS is about Clark learning to deal with aftermath of that: the burden of being a public superhero and thus the object of political interest and controversy. He learns that despite his powers, he can't always do the right thing and save everyone. People will still die because he is fallible. A true hero is one who may fall down but just gets back up again.

>>93016499
>MoS is literally him putting the costume on for the very first time and just learning to fly and the next day there is already an alien invasion.
And who's decision was it that Clark Kent still didn't figure out how to be a hero way after he was already a legal adult? He is behind everyone else in the League, at this point Flash and Cyborg are going to be more experienced than him.

When are you going to stop giving a grown man excuses for being a lesser hero than every other member of the Justice League?

>>93016555
>He learns that despite his powers, he can't always do the right thing and save everyone. People will still die because he is fallible. A true hero is one who may fall down but just gets back up again.
And Why did he need two films when no one else needed more than one? What is his critical learning disability that meant he is already so old and yet still incapable of heroism?

>>93016549

>We don't know anything about Clark as an adult man beyond vague "daddy issues" in MoS, so his transition into Superman is meaningless.

We know that he has trust issues, that he feels lost and lonely, and that he's searching for his purpose. Eventually he finds out that the answer isn't in the planet he came from, there's nothing there, but the one he lives, and that if he wants to give his life some meaning, if he wants to fulfill his purpose, he has first to trust others. Blindly even, in a leap of faith, because the first step must come from him.

>>93016549
>We have no sense of what adult Clark is like as a character because the first half of the movie's format treats him like the fucking Sasquatch that Amy Adams has to track down.

In MoS Clark is a man who has always wanted to do good while searching his meaning in life, but struggles with figuring out how to do that because his very existence becoming public will shake the world to its core so he has to do shit in secret. You people always act like it's somehow obvious from day one to him to just go "oh I know, I'll put on spandex and fly around saving kitten" and people will automatically love him. Bruce needed a something to inspire him to be Batman and then spend most of his early life preparing to that mission. Superman similarly has to go through a journey of self-discover while also figure out how (or if he even should) to come out to the public and reveal himself as an alien being without causing world wide panic.

>>93016577

He learned different things in both movies, not the same thing over and over, and he was always heroic. The point wasn't that he wasn't heroic, but rather that sometimes his heroism will produce unintended and unwanted consequences, and there's simple no solution to that. But this doesn't mean he should give up, because he's needed. He just have to shoulder the responsibility on and keep doing his job. Basically, he can't control everything, and that is fine, what matters is that he tries to do good.

>>93016561
>He is behind everyone else in the League, at this point Flash and Cyborg are going to be more experienced than him.

The only people more experienced are Diana and Batman, both of whom have been at it for decades and became jaded as a result. Meanwhile Superman is the only one who never lost hope or lost his way. He is the one who even inspires both Bruce and Diana to get back to the game and do good on a bigger level. Why is this an issue, other than geek autism?

>>93016607
>Blindly even, in a leap of faith, because the first step must come from him.
Too bad then that it took him so long to figure it out, that Zod ended up appearing first. He didn't make the first step so Zod made it for him.

There is no reason why Superman had to be so morally weak as a grown man. Why are you trying to excuse a character played by a 30 year old man, acting like he was barely a teenager?

>>93016631
>The only people more experienced are Diana and Batman, both of whom have been at it for decades and became jaded as a result.
Diana has been retconed.

>>93016631
>Meanwhile Superman is the only one who never lost hope or lost his way.
He lost hope and lost his way for 30 years, assuming he was as old as his actor.

>>93016549
>We have no sense of what adult Clark is like as a character because the first half of the movie's format treats him like the fucking Sasquatch that Amy Adams has to track down. We don't know anything about Clark as an adult man beyond vague "daddy issues" in MoS, so his transition into Superman is meaningless.
>You fanboys keep claiming that the arc for Clark is some deep metaphysical exploration when in fact it's so worthless that Snyder has to glue a bunch of meaningless religious and mythological iconography onto his version of the character as a shorthand for character development.

T H I S
H
I
S

HOLY SHIT FINALLY SOMEONE GETS IT.
Superman don't act like Superman in these movies. He acts like King fucking Kong, where Amy Adams is the only thing keeping him tied to humanity.

Wonder Woman proved that Snyder is objectively the problem; Patty Jenkins got a good performance out of GAL GADOT for fuck's sake. These are all capable actors but they're being given fuck all to work with.

>>93016638

Richard Donner Superman only debuted on his thirties as well. Before that he lived like a hikikomori inside the Fortress watching kryptonian anime in his crystals.

>>93016650

But that anon is completely wrong because if he payed minimal attention he would understand how Clark feels and what he's looking for. He would understand the character struggle.

>>93016651
>Richard Donner Superman only debuted on his thirties as well. Before that he lived like a hikikomori inside the Fortress watching kryptonian anime in his crystals.
And yet Donner Superman was being Superman once her got out, instead of suddenly being unable to know how to do the right thing. Because guess what? few things are as pathetic as a 30 year old man unable to know basic morals.

>>93011997
I. Don't. Care.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ez4UdhAXwPQ

>>93016555
>Implying Man of Steel was about Clark learning to trust humanity when, by the end of it, everyone is rightfully terrified of him
>Implying BvS wasn't just the studio reacting to how much everyone hated Man of Steel
>Implying they didn't just go on damage control and try to play it off like it was all part of some grand design all along
>Implying you didn't fall for this obvious hackneyed ruse

Wonder Woman was good, anon. The DCEU has a good movie now. You don't need to pretend anymore.

>>93016649

He kept saving people even if he didn't wore a spandex, actually. Remember Lois tracking him down and saying that he touched many lives, always rescuing people wherever he went?

>>93016671
>He would understand the character struggle.
Not really, not for 30 year old. If we are talking about Superboy then we can give him a pass, but Clark Kent the man is NOT Superboy.

>>93016672

Richard Donner Superman turned time back in the name of pussy, even if his dad, Jor-El, told him not to. Before that he had failed to stop that one missile.

>>93016671
>If you make up a bunch of fancanon you'll realize this movie is good!

>>93016679

Why are you so purposely wrong about everything?

BvS showed that Superman was regarded as a hero. That's why Lex started to fabricate stories to ruin his reputation.

I consider it a personal achievement that I watched all of Man of Steel without switching it off. I was on a flight at the time, though, so it wasn't like there was much else to do. Might have been different if I'd tried it elsewhere.

>>93016682
>He kept saving people even if he didn't wore a spandex, actually. Remember Lois tracking him down and saying that he touched many lives, always rescuing people wherever he went?
And? People do that, that's not what makes him super. Am I suppose to be impressed that Superman saves some people occasionally? That is ordinary. There are people who make a living rescuing people, who don't have superpowers or a Batmobile. People like that are everywhere and Clark Kent had not proven why he should be consider "Super".

Superman is suppose to be great. He is suppose to be the hero other heroes look up to. But now Wonder Woman has that mantle.

>>93016432
can you count? he's been in two movies. and one of them is more like a trinity film more than anything else.

>>93016649
>Diana has been retconed.

At best it was mended so that she did stuff on a smaller scale, kept her identity underwraps and just didn't get involved in any large scale conflicts, like fighting Man's wars for them.

>>93016693

I made no fan-canon. These are things made obvious by the movie. Clark was looking for the reason he was sent to Earth, like John told him to. Clark still helped people along the way. Clark had trust issues. Clark made the leap to trust after talking to the priest. Clark trusting in the army, helped the army trust him, and that mutual trust was important since they needed to team-up to save the Earth. Clark was regarded as a hero.

Everything i'm telling you isn't headcanon, but things made obvious in the movie.

>>93016713

How about saving the world twice in one day?

>>93016713

Wonder Woman look up to Superman, actually. Not the other way around.

>>93016751
>Wonder Woman look up to Superman, actually. Not the other way around.
She has no reason to, she is the real Jesus of the DCEU. Clark Kent is just a false god from an alien planet. Diana was born to be the saviour and it shows. Clark doesn't want to be the saviour so give him his wish.

>>93016765

It was Clark's heroic sacrifice that inspired Wonder Woman to be a hero again. It was Clark who never gave up being Superman, even during his worst tribulations.

>>93016671
His entire arc can be condensed into
>Buhhhh, I dunno if I can be Superman...
>Fuhhhh, my dad is dead and I dunno...
>Guhhhh, I can't relate to humans because I'm a weird alien spaceman...

It completely misses the point of the original character because Zack Snyder is embarrassed to be making a film about a spangly-man who is faster than a speeding bullet.

So he tries to attach all this crippling self-doubt and Christ imagery to a character who is the embodiment of hope, perseverance, and just morality, only to have him come out acting like an oblivious autist who doesn't understand human emotions despite being raised on Earth his entire life.

>>93016672
>instead of suddenly being unable to know how to do the right thing

Because Donner's world is literally a juvenile black and white world, with no gray areas. Luthor is bad, Superman is good, mind wiping rape kisses and going back to bully some who was a dick to you with your superpowers are also cool because hey it's Superman.

>>93016779
you're retarded if you think that's what superman was struggling with in man of steel and BvS.

>>93016783
>Because Donner's world is literally a juvenile black and white world, with no gray areas. Luthor is bad, Superman is good, mind wiping rape kisses and going back to bully some who was a dick to you with your superpowers are also cool because hey it's Superman.
Well guess what? Diana is in the same world and yet SHE came out of her film smelling like roses.

File: _20170606_090445.jpg (208KB, 1080x1400px) Image search: [Google]

208KB, 1080x1400px

>>93014844
AHAHAHAHAHAHAHA

>>93016779

That's not his arc. Who's the one making headcanons now?

His arc in MoS was about finding his purpose and learning to trust others.
His arc in BvS was about accepting that sometimes his actions will have unintended consequences, that he won't be able to save and please everyone, and shouldering that responsibility.

>>93016699
>The government is coming up with ways to kill him
>Batman wants him dead
>Everyone who survived Metropolis who doesn't work for the Daily Planet thinks he's responsible
>Wheelchair man hates his guts
>"What should we do about Superman" is an everyday topic on the news
>Everyone is made so uncomfortable by his very presence that they're willing to say he's responsible for those dead Arabs and Congress exploding despite there being literally no evidence
>Everyone calls him a menace and throws him under the bus at the soonest opportunity because they just want to be rid of him
>"But Mr. President, we'd be nuking Superman too." ... "Eh, fuck 'im."

But no you're right anon see they built a statue everyone totally loves him haha up up and away

>>93016825

>The government is coming up with ways to kill him

The government was actually against using kryptonite as a weapon against Superman and even then the idea was only being entertained after Lex's fabricated stories.

>Batman wants him dead

Batman's having a mid-life crisis and looking for something to blame his failings on.

>Everyone who survived Metropolis who doesn't work for the Daily Planet thinks he's responsible

That's a lie.

>Wheelchair man hates his guts

That guy ruined his own life.

>"What should we do about Superman" is an everyday topic on the news

The media was jumping on the Superman issue because of Lex's fabricated stories. The whole point of that segment was to show that they were on only for the controversy.

>Everyone is made so uncomfortable by his very presence that they're willing to say he's responsible for those dead Arabs and Congress exploding despite there being literally no evidence

That's the point of the whole bias and controversy. It's because it sold.

>Everyone calls him a menace and throws him under the bus at the soonest opportunity because they just want to be rid of him

Not everyone.

>"But Mr. President, we'd be nuking Superman too." ... "Eh, fuck 'im."

The President was doing what was right and Superman agreed with it. He himself took Doomsday with him to the nuclear warhead.

>>93016801
>>93016821
>"Superman was a lie my father told me..."
>"No one stays good forever..."
>Does a Christ-air while frowning

So Superman's entire arc over these films is being a fuck-up. Wow, what an inspiring character. He's honestly better off dead, he caused 100% of the problems he and others have had to deal with.

They should just fire Snyder and rewrite the Flash movie to be a Flashpoint deal where we can undo all the damage that's been done thus far.

Because right now it feels like it's all leading up to a Superboy Prime kinda deal, where Clark just devolves into an angry edgy retard because he literally can't stop fucking up everything everywhere.

>>93016864
>"No anon you don't understand, people totally love Superman if you just ignore all the people who hate him"
6/10, made me reply

>>93016815
WE NEED SOME WATER FOR THIS BURN

>>93016878

The dude has a small moment of self-doubt and then comes right back in to save the day, and you treat the guy as if he had just turned his back to the world for years? Come on, man.

And Superman isn't a fuck-up. Lex had to make up stories and manipulate everyone he could find to make Superman look bad. Are you going to say comic Superman is a fuck-up for all the times Lex tried to pin something on him as well?

I can't wait for WW to beat him in a fight

>>93016878
you sound like the edgy retard right now. how can you be this upset over a slightly more complex take on superman.

>>93016921
>you sound like the edgy retard right now. how can you be this upset over a slightly more complex take on superman.
There is nothing complex about an ineffective Superman. Anyone can portray Superman as a fuckup who can't his job, it doesn't require any skill.

>>93016887

The movie makes it plainly that the people that had a problem with Superman were people that had wrecked their own lives and were using Superman as a scapegoat for their problems. The same with the media. The media was only covering bad shit about him because it was a hot news. At the same time nobody cared that Batman was beating people in Gotham, because that wasn't news.

Really, you're siding characters that bought fake news to justify their bias. People that thanks to their bias were manipulated by the very cunt that sold them the fake news.

>>93016931

But.. Superman isn't a fuck-up. You can only believe that if you're buying Lex's crap.

File: 1364089852933.jpg (269KB, 1602x976px) Image search: [Google]

269KB, 1602x976px

>>93012085
Curse that Snyder! How dare he do an Evil Superman story! That's never done in the comics or any other medium. I hate him! I hate him so much! SNYYYYYDER!!!!!

>>93016946
The world would be better without him here. Superman's presence brought Zod with the terraformer which killed millions. Zod's corpse was turned into Doomsday. The technology of Zod's ship was used to summon the forces of Darkseid.

The film asks us. Do we need a Superman? And the answer is no.

File: 1395627383180.jpg (33KB, 400x400px) Image search: [Google]

33KB, 400x400px

BvS literally is all about Truth, Justice and the American Way (Power), and people still say that the movie is not Superman as fuck.

To elaborate further, the principals' arcs all concern them confronting (or running from) truths about themselves. All three have introductory scenes that begin with them lying to someone:

Clark lies to Lois about not caring what people are saying. This is shown to be a lie by how he's riveted to the television every time someone's on discussing him. The reason he's lying about not caring is because he's in a bit of denial about what he's let his actions become. They're not purely heroic. They're born out of the guilt he's been carrying around over the events we see in Man of Steel. He feels responsible, like anyone would, and he's doing his best to make up for it, but he can't admit that to other people because he hasn't yet admitted it to himself. Clark confronts this and starts making peace with it just by making the decision to show up for the hearings. He confronts it further in his "conversation" with Pa, and he places it firmly behind him when he returns and confronts Doomsday, the literal embodiment of his guilt, and the "ghost" of the only man he's ever killed.

>>93016975

Do we need Batman? Do we need Wonder Woman? Do we need the Justice League? The answer is probably not. Their existence come with new problems of its own. Do we really help in helping or do we hurt more than we help in trying to help? There's no good answer for that.

Fuck Platos, that's what i'm saying.

>>93017016
>Do we need Batman? Do we need Wonder Woman? Do we need the Justice League? The answer is probably not. Their existence come with new problems of its own. Do we really help in helping or do we hurt more than we help in trying to help? There's no good answer for that.
That's where you got it wrong. Wonder Woman worked as a film because the audience is glad that Diana exists. If you want to argue that Superman is better off not existing, then you are also arguing that Superman the film is better off not existing.

Diana had earned her right to exist. Superman should too, be he had not.

File: 04 (2).jpg (4MB, 4883x3250px) Image search: [Google]

4MB, 4883x3250px

>>93016983

Lex lies to everybody,

With the possible exception of himself. Lex was pretty much the poster boy for fake news before we even properly had a word for it. Here we have a man with all the information - literally all of it, and yet he only uses it to further his own agenda, to season his lies with just enough truth to make them palatable.

Lex lies to the Senators about his intentions, he lies to Bruce through the media outlets under his control, pushing the narrative as Superman as an "alien menace," he lies both about *and* To Clark about his reasons for wanting people to see him with "blood on his hands,"

He would have had his confrontation with the truth via Senator Finch, among whose last words were "Now is a time for truth," but Lex has no interest in truth, only perception. He murders his truth in that bombing, and he murders his Mercy as well.

>>93017045

Wonder Woman's brother created WW1 and Wonder Woman might have very well created WW2.

>>93017060
>Wonder Woman's brother created WW1 and Wonder Woman might have very well created WW2.
You know you are wrong. I am just sad that you had to pretend to believe what you are saying. Look, Wonder Woman is good, we can build a universe based on this. Don't ruin it.

>>93017077

I'm basing my opinion on what happens in the movie. Wonder Woman's actions in the movie might have helped create WW2. This is implied.

>>93017048
>he murders his Mercy as well
Which was a shame. I wanted more of her.

>>93017016
>The answer is probably not.
Such sad groundwork to build your cinematic universe on.
>>93017088
>superhero helped start WW2
Christ.

Take the whole family to a DC movie, woohoo!

File: 05.png (2MB, 2560x1600px) Image search: [Google]

2MB, 2560x1600px

>>93017048

Bruce lies to Alfred about what he's after.

The reason Bruce lies is because telling Alfred the truth would tip his hand. Alfred would know he was on a vendetta and Bruce probably knows that given enough time, Alfred *could* make him see reason. That's really the key to Bruce's character - the "man" is the reasoning, compassionate side of his nature, the "bat" is the irrational, vengeance-obsessed side that is dominating his character for most of the film. It's why he's so tunnel-visioned. He sees only the target for his grief and sees only the things that support that view of his "enemy."

Bruce forces his own confrontation with that truth about himself when he chooses to forge a spear instead of a more "impersonal" weapon such as a bullet. Bruce can't justify cold-blooded murder of a helpless opponent. We see him kill in many ways over the course of the film, but never face-to-face, never without a buffer, never without some means of distancing himself from the act. The only exceptions are in his vision of the future where we see him kill without hesitation both with guns as well as with his bare hands. That is his rock-bottom, something he never reaches in the film, where he has Clark at his mercy, but predictably balks at the commission of the act he can't justify,

It is in that moment that the "man" begins to reassert himself.

>>93017045

I'm pretty sure all the people Superman saves during the time between end of MoS and start of BvS would say they're glad Superman exists.

File: Wake me up.jpg (50KB, 626x399px) Image search: [Google]

50KB, 626x399px

>>93017110

The main theme in the DCEU is that mankind is fucked up, but we try to do good so that might count for something. Really. That is the main theme throughout all these movies. Even Wonder Woman. We fuck each other, we kill each other, we do awful things, but despite all that we also try to do good, even if we might fuck-up royally, so we aren't all bad.

>>93017122
>I'm pretty sure all the people Superman saves during the time between end of MoS and start of BvS would say they're glad Superman exists.
That doesn't matter if the director doesn't believe it. It is very clear which side Snyder is on.

>>93017137

I wonder how that theme will play in the Aquaman movie. Will it involve Aquaman killing Black Manta's father? Being a bad king initially? Feeling left out in both worlds?

I fucking want my conflicted and broken Aquaman.

>>93017137
>>93017171

What about the Flash? Him failing to prove his father's innocence? Failing to save his mother? Being the very thing that ruin his and his family's lives?

>>93017157

Snyder believe in Superman. It's just that things are complicated, there's two sides to everything, both internally for the characters and what they feel as well in the circumstances they see themselves in.

>>93017302
>Snyder believe in Superman.
If he does he wouldn't spent two films plus the upcoming third wondering if Superman is better off not existing.

It doesn't matter anyway, Diana is the new Superman now. Someone had to do it and Clark kent is not The One.

>>93016952
>That's never done in the comics or any other medium
It's literally the opposite,it's been done to death.
Making Superman evil or powerless is the bottom of the barrel of Superman stories.

>>93012646

>"true neutral"
>sacrifices himself in the end for mankind
>saves people all around the world (stranded ship, burning building, flood victims, rocket ship explosion etc)

Sure, bud.

Can the "Donner movies are the classic mold for superhero movies, specially Superman" fags please leave?

>>93017800

But both movies just present the question and answer them with "yes, Superman needs to exist".

BvS's story is a response to people who were anal about Man of Steel.

File: me having coffee.jpg (74KB, 767x960px) Image search: [Google]

74KB, 767x960px

Well it looks they're doing reshoots for Justice League... Henry Cavill just posted a picture of himself in costume on Instagram.

>>93018405
There are no Lawful good vigilantes, because they are vigilantes.

>>93018425
>But both movies just present the question and answer them with "yes, Superman needs to exist".
Why the fuck do you even ask the question for?
Do you watch the Backdraft film to find out if we need Firefighters to exist? Do you watch medical dramas to find out if we need Doctors to exist?

The very fact that the two films ask the question at all is proof the answer is NO for the director. And he confirmed it by asking twice. And Superman obliged by killing himself and removing his existence.

>>93017110
But the armistice DID lead to WWII, anon. Germans felt they were "stabbed in the back", look it up.

>>93018471

Because Plato shit is cool as fuck, you nerd.

>>93018457
The thread died because it wasn't that big of news. Let it be dead, and don't post it in every tangentially related thread.

>>93018471

Why do you think the question shouldn't exist or happen in movie format? Why does it bother you so much that someone wanted to do this type of story instead of a cookie-cutter Donner-style superhero movie? Grow up, not every story neeeds to cater to you, some people want different interpretations and takes on old characters. You have 5 other Superman live action movies to enjoy if you don't want this interpretation.

>>93018526
>Why do you think the question shouldn't exist or happen in movie format?
It seems you don't understand.

The question shouldn't exist because the question invalidates the reason why the film exists. If we don't need fire fighters then we don't need to watch a film about them. In the same way, if we don't need superheroes then we don't need to watch a film about them.
People who don't want superheroes are free to watch the 99% of the films where there are no capes in sight. If you watch Cape films you expect Capes to have a reason to exist or they are wasting your time.

>>93018625
>if we dont need them we dont need to see a movie about them

What. The. Fuck. Am. I. Reading.

>>93017119
>tunnel-visioned
>bat live is mostly in tunnels

>>93011997
He's not the real Superman

>>93018644
>What. The. Fuck. Am. I. Reading.
Is that all you can respond?

Because if you think you can make a film where the heroes of the story have no reason to exist, you are describing what was the original plot of Zootopia. The prototype story has the city being in a state of near hell with its citizens not even worth saving. The result is that the story literally disintegrates because if you don't want to save the city then you don't need the premise of the story at all. The protagonists are suppose to save the city, but the setting makes it meaningless. By questioning if the city is worth saving, the result is the protagonists no longer have a reason to exist.

>>93011997
What if it's a variant of "For the man who has everything"?

BvS raped Superman

>they will spend the movie killing parademons like shit disposable robot minions in superhero movies
>they will eventually find they are just humans that were mutated by force and have a soylent green moment

Snyder is a madman. Im 100% sure this will happen. (unless Joss Cuckdon removes it of course)

>>93012645
But MoS was great.

>>93012829
So make Superman the most boring shit possible to legitimizethose faggots that believe he is boring? We already have Diana in the DCEU for mindless childish optimism. They cant ALL be clinically retarded and naive.

>no more inner conflict
But thats what makes the best stories of Supes. If you remove that you just have a guy who punches stuff

>>93014129
Weird, considering WW has the same issues. All of her support characters aged and died.

While Clark has Ma Kent, Lois, Perry and visions of Pa Kent. Superman is the only DCEU character with a support cast. And WW is the only one without.

>ratfuckers already shifting to shilling against JL

sad

>>93011997
>They're gonna fuck [this] up aren't they
No.
>Because we can't have his return involve saving the League in a big glorious moment, can we?
Why not?

>>93012040
Pretty clearly this.

>>93018425
>But both movies just present the question and answer them with "yes, Superman needs to exist".
How so? Every major, otherworldly crisis so far exists largely because of him.

He accidentally calls Zod.
Zod wants him, specifically.
Enchantress is empowered trying to find a weapon to stop the next guy like him.
Doomsday is created because he can't clean up his messes.
Darkseid's able to be contacted because of technology that he left lying around.

You'll respond to all this with "he's not perfect he makes mistakes you just want campy cartoon bullshit", because that's what you've done for years and years, but that's not actually a refutation of the facts.

Yes. Humans make mistakes. But when I fuck up it doesn't end up with invading armadas showing up to kill thousands. And if for some reason it did, nobody would be celebrating my praises from the rubble afterwards

>>93019508
>Enchantress is empowered trying to find a weapon to stop the next guy like him.

No, she's an archeologist who gets accidentally possessed abd then recruited to the skawd.

>Doomsday is created because he can't clean up his messes.

Zod's body is entrusted to the US government who then let Lex have it. And what exactly is Superman going to do with an indestructible body, hide it in his closet?

>Darkseid's able to be contacted because of technology that he left lying around.

Again, somebody misused technology that was left in the hands of the government. Where was Superman suppose to stash a giant wrecked ship of that size?

>>93019475

Batman has Alfred and Jim Gordon, Superman has all the Daily Planet people, his mom and Lois, WW is the only one that is alone now.

>>93019508

You sound like one of those that blame the victims for crimes that happen to them. Superman didn't make any of the bad guys do bad things, they did evil stuff for their own selfish reasons, son. And Superman could have chosen he selfish path and ignored pleas for help in every turn, like his mom said, he doesn't own anything to anyone. He does what he thinks is right because he's a good guy and I'm sure the people he saved are glad he's here, as shown by the endings of both MoS and BvS.

>>93019803
>, Superman has all the Daily Planet people, his mom and Lois
No he does not, "Clark Kent" is dead. Superman as it stands can't go back to the Daily Planet after his resurrection.

>>93020168

He can still interact with them as their city's hero, Superman. Also, the coffin wasn't open at his funeral and the reason for his death was Doomsday's attack, so they can pull the same bullshit from the comics, if not much time has passed from BvS to JL movies, except for the Supergirl morphing part.

>>93013601

He was already good in MoS though and found true purpose when he decided to sacrifice himself for the world in BvS.

>>93019475
Superman spent a total of 2 MINUTES on the Daily Planet on the entire BvS movie.

Didn't the leak say that he comes back as EBIL BLACK SUPES but it's actually a trick by him and Batman to troll Steppenwolf?