From the very first time we see him, DCEU Supes is saving people.

>>92980904
the only thing that ever matters in any movie, tv show, or play the only thing that sticks with people is the last 10 minutes

think about the last 10 minutes of Man of Steel

that's why

>>92980984
>think about the last 10 minutes of Man of Steel
Where he saves the entire human race?

>>92980904
because he threw a train in his own home town and almost blew people up then in the fight with Zod turned Metropolis into a location from Fallout 4.

>>92980904
he treats saving people like a grinding 9 to 5 job that he hates

>>92980997
For the 2nd time in that film lol.

>>92981038
Not wanting to be seen as a savior=/=not liking being a good person

If it wasn't fulfilling he wouldn't do it you fool.
BvS is NOT deep and you losers still miss the point.

>>92981038
How? He goes out his way to savile folks. I MoS he left the ship to save the folks on the oil rig.
In BvS he was about to follow bruce but again left to save that little girl.

He enjoys saving folks, but you cant expect the shit folks ssy about him not to bother him.

>>92981132
this x10000000

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>>92980904

Bro, tone.

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>>92981031
>because he threw a train in his own home town
No he punched Non into the train yard to get him out of main street.
Non later threw the train at him.
See 3:59
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=87ZTS7Fdg90

>>92981132
imagine if he was the donner superman who always had service with a smile and always had time for a photo op before flying off to see how louis was doing

MoS was great, i thought WW and MoS were very similar

>>92981195
We already had 5 fucking movies with Donner Supes though.

>>92981031
>then in the fight with Zod turned Metropolis into a location from Fallout 4.
No only 1 skyscraper fell during their 1 on 1 fight in Metropolis and Clark did zero structural damage to it. Everything else was from the Black Zero or the crashing of the scout ship.

>>92981197
I did too. That's why I made this thread.
WW was excellent, but so was MoS. I am at a complete loss as to the perceived difference.

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>>92980904
>I posted it again!

OP, we already know that you samefag and play both sides to shitpost about movies. Fuck off back to /tv/.

>>92981195
Donner Superman had everyone sucking his cock and was the biggest dork.

Because it seems like it's a huge fucking burden

His character is one of the dullest I've seen in a cape movie. Everything cool about him are the setpieces. Take the S off his chest and no one would give two shits about him. This incarnation has no redeeming qualities on his own that make him stand out as a character. Comic Supes gets called boring but he is 1000x more interesting because there is more to him than being a fucking mope.

>>92981270
>>I posted it again!
Check the archive, i've never posted this before.
Go back to /v/.

>>92981327
>Because it seems like it's a huge fucking burden
Because it is?
Imagine yourself in his shoes.

>>92981327
>Because it seems like it's a huge fucking burden
BECAUSE IT FUCKING IS, not the saving itself, but the consequences of doing so are a massive fucking burden that would make any normal person uneasy. That is the whole fucking point.

>>92981132
>He enjoys saving folks
The entire point of BvS is how he doesn't really like saving people and only did it because he felt he was obliged too. Even at the end he really only saved the day to save Lois.

>>92981407
>The entire point of BvS is how he doesn't really like saving people and only did it because he felt he was obliged too.
not even close bud

>>92980904
Stop whining.
It's Wonder Woman's world now.

>>92981195
>louis
I hate you most of all.

>>92981110
>>92981370
>>92981394
the thing is we never see WHAT makes it worth it to him. Obviously we as the audience can recognize that there must be something that keeps him doing it, but all we see of him is looking depressed. There's no evidence of whatever inherent moral fiber he has in the comics because his parents are continually vague about whether saving people is a good thing. He doesn't have a Spider-man moment where he is shown firsthand what great power=great responsibility.

There's no moment where he has a human interaction where we SEE why he does what he does. All we see is him getting worshiped like a god, which he demonstrably does not like.

>>92981428
>Be their hero, Clark. Be their angel, be their monument, be anything they need you to be... or be none of it. You don't owe this world a thing. You never did.
Yeah nah, it was pretty damn clear Supe's didn't like his job.

>>92981456
see
>>92981221

>>92981370
>>92981394
I don't wanna fucking imagine myself in his shoes. I don't want a fucking "realistic" superman. I want something even close to the personality I read in comics.

He can feel it as a burden but that shouldn't be the entirety of his character. Name even 3 other character traits he has

>>92981506
But that quote isn't from Clark. Try again.

>>92981496
In my opinion, the movie makes the moral character of Jonathan Kent VERY clear.
>you are my son.

>>92981531
>I want something even close to the personality I read in comics.
see
>>92980904

"Not even close" would be him not saving people at all.
Take your hysteria and go.

>>92981563
are implying that Jonathan on the mountain was an actual ghost and not just a manifestation of Clark's own conscience?

>>92981221
Look, you've had going on four years to understand the issue is one of tone.
So bottom line, you're either shitposting, or legitimately autistic. But good news! You get to choose which one. Those are the only options.

>>92981597
Just saving people isn't his character either. But I wouldn't expect people on /co/ to actually read comics, let alone DCEU shitters

>>92981370
That's exactly what's wrong with it. A hero is someone better than a loser like me.

>>92981506
Yet he comes back and makes the ultimate sacrifice. Nah, I think you are just a retard.

>>92981506
You really didn't understand the point of what she said.

>>92981563
Yeah, it's from Martha his mom telling Clark what is essentially the moral of the story is. She knew that Supe's was getting tired of everyone's shit and doesn't want to be a god damn messiah figure.

Supe's did everything soley for his love of Lois. Why do you think we get a scene with dead Pa Kent telling Clark saving people is pointless?

>>92981648
Mate, i'm one of the few people here who read comics before he found /co/.
The DCEU is great so far.

>>92981597
If saving people was the most important trait then you could say every hero is the same since they all want to save people. The way they go about it is more important, and I mean more than just the physical way since that too would reduce them to being he same except with different powers.

>>92981642
WW's tone isn't any different from MoS for the majority of the film though.

>>92981687
this

>>92981687
You're defending a piece of cardboard for doing what any super hero from any other movie would do.

>>92981506
ONLY BECAUSE of the people treating him like shit not because the saving itself is unenjoyable.

>>92981777
>no counterargument
As expected.
The film straight up contradicts your lies.

>Has been saving people since childhood despite the chance of exposure
>Stands up for women who are being harassed
>Chooses his adopted home planet over his birth planet
>Uses his position as a journalist to stand up for people he sees as being mistreated
>Worries constantly that he’s doing more harm than good to the world
>Even with his mother's life at stake he tries to reason with Bruce before trying to merely subdue him
>Has very good reasons to hate the world but never shows anger towards it and still tries to help it at every opportunity
>Saves Lex Luthor from Doomsday despite hating him
>Ready to sacrifice his life to save the world

Seriously, he's heroic AF. And I wouldn't be cheery all the time if everything I did was met with scrutiny or controversy. But the important thing is that despite that, he never stopped doing what was right.

Smiling and being happy all the time does not equal hope. If that was the case, then the Joker is the most fucking hopeful person in the world.

Hope is when you see and believe in the positive when there is negative around. You can be depressed, sad, and feel down but still have hope.

>>92981755
Tone of character, not just tone of narrative.
But keep digging your hole. Surely you'll dig your way out after four years.

>>92981814
this

>>92981728
Please describe Clark's personality from these movies. Not that he saves people, but actual character traits.

>>92981862
I want to stay in my hole. And I want you to join me so you can share in my good taste.

>>92981732
This.
"He's totally Superman! He saved people!" is a shallow understanding of the character. EVERY superhero does that. What makes Superman who he is is something else entirely

>>92981871
What's in it for me?

>>92981496
He doesn't need a specific moment, he does it because it's the right fucking thing to do.
>There's no evidence of whatever inherent moral fiber he has in the comics because his parents are continually vague about whether saving people is a good thing
Except they had the moral fucking fiber to be honest and tell him that really bad fucking things could happen if he goes public, they were fucking heroes instead of negligent idiots who just told Clark what he wants to hear.

Because he's miserable and grim.

>>92981875
Okay, so you've settled on shitposting rather than autism. Good to know. I'll even be magnanimous and let you have the last word.

>>92981890
>he can't

It's OK anon. We already knew that

>>92981703
He didn't fucking tell him it was pointless, he told him saving/pleasing everyone is fucking impossible so don't be miserable because of, go be happy and just do what your capable of doing & be content with that.

>>92980904
Because MoS was a disappointment. There's an "in for a penny" mentality that makes people hyperbolize everything nowadays. MoS can't be a a disappointing and bleak but ultimately just mediocre and forgettable Superman movie. No it has to be the worst thing to ever happen to Superman. Superman and Pa can't be poorly written but normal people struggling with an impossible situation, they must be complete monsters that are 180s from their characters.
Superman can't just fail to save literally everyone while saving the entire world, he must be directly and purposefully responsible for every death that occurred that day and feel nothing about it.

I get really tired of seeing the constant reddit spacing in these threads

>>92981966
No really.
Would you change your mind?
Be honest now.

>>92981901
>he doesn't need a specific moment
maybe he doesn't, but you are then assuming something that isn't demonstrated in the film because of your previous knowledge of the character.

It doesn't need to be something big like with Spider-man but just a fucking human moment with ANY of the people he saves that aren't named Lois. Like other people have said in this thread, it's a matter of tone. On screen, he doesn't appear to like saving people or doing the right thing. That isn't the Superman people are familiar with, and that is what's being criticized.

>>92980904
He treats saving people like a terrible burden that he hates and that constantly grinds on his soul.

Also he's inconsistent and wooden and has no distinct personality. Snyderman is simply unlikable on every level because he's hollow and poorly acted, and the only personality you can really give him is the personality of his movies, which is depressing and morose.

>>92981981
>Because MoS was a disappointment.
It wasn't though.
I was very happy when I walked out of the theater in 2013.

>>92980904
Because Superman's character arc was done through other people's exposition.

On his own, he's just a boring hunk that has two or three emotions at best

Seriously, even when he's alone contemplating his life, most of the talking is made by a hallucination while Cavil makes a sad face

>>92981871
A charismatic friendly guy who has chosen to be a loner fly on the wall & let his actions speak for him as to avoid getting into the fray of politics and government.

>>92982079
>charismatic friendly
neither of those are evident when he's interacting with anyone not named Lois

>>92982055
This. I've been a Superman fan for over 20 years, and I absolutely loved it.

>>92982079
>A charismatic friendly guy
what.

>>92982079
>charismatic
lol, he's a cardboard box

>>92982134
yeah well I've been a superman fan for 40 years and I thought it was shit.

Snyder thinks it's impossible for someone actually save people, while also being positive at the same time.

He also thinks a "real" superman would be mopey, depressed and break people's necks.

I'd describe DCEU Clark as more introverted than anything. He likes to show up, get the job done, and then quietly leave, like he did as a vagabond. Obviously he's still righteous and good-hearted,but he's more introspective than most versions of the character, wondering if his actions are causing more harm than good.

>>92981931
you sound like a massive douche bag

>>92982273
Honestly, he looks autistic.

Not even using 4chan autism, I mean actual autism.

>>92982264
This.

I don't know why people try to argue that his Superman isn't like this. These are the legit beliefs he espouses. He's a fucking objectivist, he doesn't believe in helping people, he truly does not get Superman on any level.

>>92982353
>he doesn't believe in helping people
And yet he helps people.
And he continues to help people even after he wonders why he's doing it.

>>92982030
Yeah if I thought you had a point. That's the whole point of discussing something. Not just to jerk each other off over shared ideas.

>>92982369
I'm pretty sure that the Anon you responded to was talking about Snyder himself.

How can honestly anyone with half a brain enjoy a miserable mopey Superman?

I've given it thought and the problem is that Clark isn't enough of the perspective character in these movies. It's all about how the """""""realistic""""""" world would react to him, and how Superman would fit in that """"""""realistic"""""""" world, but what we really needed was to get inside HIS head.

It was backwards. We needed to see the world through his eyes. We needed a moment like >>92980613

Because maybe that's really it. Maybe the issue isn't that people don't think he saved anyone so much as this world doesn't seem like it's been saved or is even worth saving.

>>92982467
>half a brain
the average /tv/ poster has considerably less

>>92981496
You don't need a reason to help people.

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>>92982544
damn............................................... really made me think......................................

>saves the entire species with his bare hands on his first day on the job
Yeah, I think he's alright

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>>92981855
This guy gets it.

>>92982544
thanks for not reading past the first sentence, I guess

>>92982544
You don't need a reason to have an aversion to killing but Snyder thought it important to give him one.
You don't even really need a reason to wear a cape, and Snyder thought it important to say it was genetic.

>>92980904
The guy that plays him is unattractive and aggressive looking.

>>92982127
He was such to the bar girl.
He wasn't friendly, but he seemed relatively open and respectful to the General during the interrogation scene.

>>92982667

Superman killed in the comics before and the genetic thing had no play in the movie itself.

>>92982667
>and Snyder thought it important to say it was genetic.
Not really? How is mentioning it in an interview and not once in the movie "important"?

>>92982467
Because he is humanized and sympathetic.

>>92982667
>You don't even really need a reason to wear a cape, and Snyder thought it important to say it was genetic.

This was one of the dumbest things that Snyder ever decided to do with this franchine. Not only made a previous scene that was good....bad, but it also is so fucking unecessary that it is patethic.

>>92982714
>and the genetic thing had no play in the movie itself.
He talked about it while explaining the scene of Clark running with a cape as a child, it changes the tone and meaning of the scene. It is just Superman being geneticaly inclined to wear a piece of fabric.

>>92982757
>>92982714
>>92982667

People say shit about the genetic thing but no one said anything when Morrison implied that Superman moral fiber was genetic for being kryptonian.

>>92982769
>It is just Superman
>just

>what is heritage

>>92982757
>How is mentioning it in an interview and not once in the movie "important"?
Snyder thought that it was important enough to mention it, soooo....your deal is with him.

>>92982792
Are you implhyinf that it isnt also an horrible idea?

>>92982544
But it makes it more interesting. Every single super hero saves people. A piece of wood saving people isn't something people want to watch on screen. There has to be more than that.

>>92982792
this

>>92981871
In MOS, a loner and an outcast who drifts through life aimlessly without meaning and purpose, wanting to help others but fears the consequences of his identity being revealed. Once he discovers his Kryptonian roots, he gains more confidence in himself and his abilities. In BVS we see that he still wants to help people, but his alien nature conspires against him and he becomes increasingly frustrated with people seeing him as some divine object of worship or a potential threat, when all he wants to do is help others and lead a normal life with Lois. He has a crisis of faith, but in the end he stays true to his convictions and makes the ultimate sacrifice. At least, that's what I got out of the movies.

>>92982764
ah yes, i love sucking "Realism" dick

>>92982714
>Superman killed in the comics before
And if you weren't a dummy you'd know context matters. The context in which he kills in the comics is to test the code, not to establish it in the first place.

>>92982757
It contradicts all that unnecessary bullshit with the codex and is further evidence that Snyder was preoccupied with the unimportant aspects. He's gotta have an explanation for the cape lined up but we can go ahead and skip over why Clark wants to be a reporter. That's not an important part of the character, after all.

>>92982797
>I have genetic heritage to wear an speciphic article of clothes


Do you not get how stupid this is? Its like saying that using underwear is in your DNA.

>>92982764
pathetic is not sympathetic.

>>92982792
I did.
I actually really dislike Morrison Superman. And were it not for Snyder's take I'd say it was the worst one in about a decade.

>>92982667
>You don't need a reason to have an aversion to killing
Yeah you do, when you're dealing with Superman level threats. Why waste time keeping a person alive if the potential for them to destroy the planet is real? If Superman faces Metallo in the future, and he has the potential to cause collateral damage, why not do the utilitarian thing and kill the dude? It's not like it'd be illegal given the scope of the threat.
Superman needed to have his no kill rule cemented right there to ensure that he never forgets his deontological imperative in the future no matter how high the utilitarian stakes are, and we needed to see that.

I don't know if supporting Snydershit is just contrarianism or lack of intelligence

>>92982822
half of this is things he does and how he feels at specific moments, not his personality
>his convictions
what are his convictions beyond "help people?"

>>92982902
one is directly related to the other

>>92982933
Are you saying that following the hivemind makes you smart?

>>92982764
One of the FIRST rules to writte, is to not make your MC an all powerful mopey bag that feels sorry for himself, while never doing anything different to change the situation.

All thus reception of Snyderman is due to this.

>>92982902

They're really good movies. I see more lack of intelligence from people that bash them than from people that liked them.

>>92980904
Because him actually saving people is mostly just situational and is more like a "I guess I have to". The oil rig was probably the only time he seemed to go out of his way to save people and actually have energy about it.

He doesn't save anyone else except Lois until he puts on the suit, and even then its more like "I am here fighting these aliens, you are too, so I'mma save you while we destroy this entire town".

In BvS it is even worse because he looks depressed by the mere thought of saving or helping people and the whole premise of the story is that literally the only thing keeping Superman from snapping and killing everyone is either his mom or his sexy time in baths with Lois.

Either way it is terrible because Superman is supposed to be the boy scout, the beacon of hope. In the comics even Batman admits that Gotham seems a bit brighter when Superman is there helping people. Instead we got the same grim and dark Snyderverse. We got a Superman and Batman that don't care about murder or killing people, they don't care about death and destruction.

>>92982933
Normally contrarians are just unhappy intelligent people who can't get their rocks off to much beyond going against "the norm".

>>92982945
>everything that most people like is dumb or wrong

You should stop giving a fuck to big 2 shit them.

>>92982945
>>92982966
well /tv/ is dumb and its whole board culture is built around contrarianism

that's as far as I'm willing to go with this analysis

>>92982955

But DCEU Superman changed his situation. MoS is all about trust. Trust in itself and others. Everything is addressed and wrapped up by the end.

>>92982965

>In BvS it is even worse because he looks depressed by the mere thought of saving or helping people and the whole premise of the story is that literally the only thing keeping Superman from snapping and killing everyone is either his mom or his sexy time in baths with Lois.

This is literally wrong. Or you're stupid or malicious to think that.

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>>92982945
only if your thinking for your contrarianism is pic related

>>92983000
>But DCEU Superman changed his situation.
Not really. Snyder just started shooting in warm colors and idiots think that means character development.

>>92982838
>we can go ahead and skip over why Clark wants to be a reporter. That's not an important part of the character, after all.
They didn't skip over that at all what the fuck?
You're mad because Snyder said something offhand in an interview about an unimportant detail instead of explaining why he wants to be a reporter, which Clark literally explains in the last few minutes of the movie? Did you even watch it?

>>92983055

Yes, he changed the situation. He started to trust in himself and others, and in turn others started to trust in him as well. It's only thanks to mutual trust that the world is saved.

What the fuck, /co/.

>>92982908
I guess you could describe him as an introvert? As for his convictions... one thing I've noticed about Snyder's film-making is that he shows more than he tells; the scenes tend to be more implicit than explicit. From what I see, Snyder's Clark/Superman just believes in doing the right thing no matter what, regardless of who they are or where they come from, he will save them, whether its a Mexican girl trapped in a burning building, some Russian astronauts, or people trapped in a flood.

>>92982899
>Superman needed to have his no kill rule cemented right there to ensure that he never forgets his deontological imperative in the future no matter how high the utilitarian stakes are, and we needed to see that.
Why? Why not just take it as a given?
Especially since I don't actually buy it was really cemented.

>>92983000
>But DCEU Superman changed his situation.
He continued to mope on BvS.

Unitl his fucking death.

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>defending mopey, grim and uncharismatic Superman

Why not just call it another character?

>>92983056
>They didn't skip over that at all what the fuck?
Okay. Why does he want to be a reporter?

>>92983086
>and in turn others started to trust in him as well.
And then we got BvS which shows they actually didn't once their backs weren't against the wall.

>>92983112

He was conflicted for different reasons in BvS. In BvS he felt unfairly persecuted because he was being blamed for things he didn't do, he was feeling guilty for the damage being wrought as consequences of the hate for him, and he was conflicted about continue to being Superman because of how much damage his presence seemed to cause.

>>92983098
>From what I see, Snyder's Clark/Superman just believes in doing the right thing no matter what, regardless of who they are or where they come from, he will save them, whether its a Mexican girl trapped in a burning building, some Russian astronauts, or people trapped in a flood.
that's a lot of words to just say "help people"

>>92983125
>Attacking Superman with a part 4 mememememememe
EPIC

>>92983045
>everyone
No, but a sad amount of people. I fully admit that i'm probably only mid tier as far as smart 4chan posters go (/lit/, /sci/, etc).

>>92983170
>In BvS he felt unfairly persecuted because he was being blamed for things he didn't do, he was feeling guilty for the damage being wrought as consequences of the hate for him, and he was conflicted about continue to being Superman because of how much damage his presence seemed to cause.

THAT'S
NOT
SUPERMAN

>>92983189

There are many arcs where that shit happened with Superman. Specially during Luthor presidency.

>>92983171
Well, what do you want me to say? Superman's not that hard to figure out, anon.

>>92983187
ok but if you think the only reason people don't like <thing> is because they're dumber than you, then yeah, contrarianism=low intelligence

>>92983220
Donner Superman is peak Superman, not comicshit

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I just liked the movie.
Reminded me of Smallville and the Donner films, while feeling less cheesy.

And not all cheese is good cheese. Otis from the Donner movies was worse than Jar Jar.

>>92983109
>Why? Why not just take it as a given?
Because otherwise it just seems like a stupid thing to do. Why wouldn't Superman kill one evil villain to save the entire planet?
As a point of reference: Bale's Batman had an entire arc about this in Begins, where he was right about to murder a man and go to jail. After he learns the criminal underworld and basically comes back disgusted with the idea of killing, I totally buy why he wouldn't want to kill the Joker. It'd seem absolutely retarded in any other scenario, but it makes perfect sense here. He has a deontological obligation that we are privy to.
Batman, let alone Baleman, isn't Superman. But I appreciated the similar arc in BB and also in MoS.

>>92983236
saved

>>92983163
>Okay. Why does he want to be a reporter?
Watch the fucking movie. Like, just the last ten minutes if you have to.

>>92983265
good, because I'm not wrong, and the world agrees with me. stay mad faggot :^)

>>92981031
>guys I totally saw the movie trust me

>>92983246
I can live with Otis.

I can't live with shrill, chain smoking, idiot Lois.

>>92983236
peak Superman is Alan Moore's Supreme

>>92983246
Lol no.
This is Smallville Jonathan
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZtUEd25FojA
>If we want to be save you need to understand your powers and learn to use them in the safety of our home.
Snyder Jonathan is "No. Just no. Hide it. All the time every time. They'll vivisect you and mankind will freak out."

>>92983320
Yeah, Kidder was pretty shit most of the time.
She had her moments though.

>>92983331
>Snyder Jonathan is
"You are my son."

They're very similar. Snyder's world is just less fairytail.

>>92983275
I did. They just skip to him getting hired.

>>92983362
>Snyder's world is just less fairytail.
>watching movies for realism that just amounts to "Lol life sucks"

>>92983220
Almost every single comic dealt with it better.

If MOS was a comic, it would be considered absolute shit.

>>92983225
I thought this Superman was supposed to be more grounded and relatable

>>92983275
I did. They just skip to him getting hired.

>>92983325
peak Superman is Sentry.

>gives up his powers to have sex with Lois and then memory steals her after he gets them back
I still love Superman II because of nostalgia, but goddamn is Superman painful to watch in that movie

>>92983362
>Snyder's world is just less fairytail.
You are on the same world of Suicide Squad mate.

>>92983376
>I did.
You couldn't have, because Clark EXPLICITLY answers your question with his own words.

>>92980904
>will the real Mark Waid please stand up?
He did, in the theater, he got up and shouted and tried to leave when Superman snapped Zod's neck. Literal manchild.

>>92983376
Clark explains what kind of job he needs over a montage of him going to the Daily Planet. I'm sorry if you can't connect the bright-neon dots, but that's not the movie's fault.

>>92983390
Anon please!
The movie is way more nuanced than that.
It's saying Life *and people* suck

>>92983417
>peak Superman is Sentry.
"no"

>>92983420
Why do people always forget about shit like that?

>>92983429
SS didn't exist when MoS was written, so no.

>>92980984
>welcome to the Planet
The ending of MoS was beautiful!

>>92983435
Quote them then.

>>92983469
I was hyped coming out of the theater.
Felt like modern Supes comic.

>>92983492
No. Watch the movie.

>>92983405
For me, he is. I can't speak for other people though.

>>92983461
Anon that's the joke.
The other anon is saying Supreme is peak superman when that is also NOT A FUCKING SUPERMAN STORY

>>92983417
>92983492
>peak Superman is Sentry
>Quote them then
We're done here lol

>>92983466
>SS didn't exist when MoS was written, so no.
What kind of dumb comment is this? I'm just reminding you that the tone, realism on interactions and what is acceptable is radicals different from movie to movie.

So saying "MOS HAD to be like that because the world is super serious and grim" is stupid because you are on the same world full of over the top bulshit and silliness.

>>92983513
Bro I can't get your fanfic if I watch the movie.

>>92983517
Honestly...do you have autism? Because this Superman has a lot of traits of someone autistic.

>>92983544
>because you are on the same world full of over the top bulshit and silliness.
It wasn't though. SS didn't exist.

>>92983458
>ending monologue of BvS is unironically refuting exactly what you think it was saying
Man, I haven't posted in a MoS thread for like half a year
Glad to see nothing's changed

>>92983531
>Supreme
>not a Superman story
so you haven't read it?

>>92981370
I SHOULD want to imagine myself in his shoes. But I don't. And so DCEU Superman is a failure.

>>92983588
But I do. And so DCEU Superman is a failure for you but not for me.

>>92983575
I have actual autism and aspengers and I related with Snyder's Superman because of that. What you are going to do?

>>92983420
>Apologizes to the president at the end saying he won't disappear again
>According to Superman Returns he fucked off for five years shortly after impregnating Lois

>>92983037
Except it is spelled out for you that either Lois or Martha dying is what triggers Superman to side with Darkseid and destroy the earth. Flash even travels back in time to warn Bruce to save "her".

>>92983612
>>According to Superman Returns
That's an alternate timeline.
There was a Superman 3 and 4.

>>92983629

Snyder only put that scene there because he felt the movie was too linear.

>>92983581
Supreme is a deconstruction of Superman.
It's not actually about Superman.
It's not even published by DC. It's an Image character. It's as much a Superman story as Sentry's book is. Or Legend of Blue Marvel. Or Icon. Or Superior. Or Miracleman. Which is to say, not at fucking all.

>>92983629
Or it's because Darkseid played a part in his resurrection

>>92983678
you literally haven't read Alan Moore Supreme, and are talking like you know anything about it

>>92983609
I'm not that anon but I'm gonna say "yeah that sounds about right."

>>92983575
No. I was bullied a lot when I was a kid though, and a bit of a loner. Take from it as you will.

>>92983697
lemme zuck ya dic

>>92981206
>>92981031
in BvS a headline says only a few dozen people were killed in Metropolis

>>92983577
>It wasn't though. SS didn't exist.
If you are building a cinematic universe, you have to be aware of tone, otherwise you end up with shit. SS retroactively made the tone of the world all over the place, so you saying that MOS HAS to be grim and some things are just too campy us stupid. This is the kind of thing that would be avoided if they had planned things better. Saying "there wasn't any SS" is just saying "they had no plan or consistency with the world".

>>92983697
And you can repeat that ad nauseum. It's not gonna make it an actual Superman book published by DC. It's just gonna be another pastiche of the archetype, a copy. A nice copy, perhaps, but not the original.

>>92983631
I get that, but you'd think Singer would have watched Superman II before declaring III and IV non-canon. Because otherwise you get some fairly damning implications.

>>92983731
Source
It's been confirmed that thousands died. Unless you fell for one of those Civil War memes

>>92983750

Like Superman date-raping Lois and leaving her pregnant and confused?

>>92983744
the face of autism.

it's all copies except for the original Siegel&Shuster run. Just because one of them has the serial numbers filed off doesn't make it less Superman.

>>92983735
Since seeing WW, I predict that SS will be the only outlier and can attributed to tonal growing pains.

>>92983797
>doesn't make it less Superman.
It objectively does though.
Superman is a character.

>>92983781
Yes.

And really, Returns Superman is pretty unlikable. All he does is creepily stalk Lois, and be butthurt that she dared to have a life without him, despite him being the moron that left after date-raping her.

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>>92983629
>Except it is spelled out for you that either Lois or Martha dying is what triggers Superman to side with Darkseid and destroy the earth. Flash even travels back in time to warn Bruce to save "her".

This is the point where I was over with Snyderman.

Most people wouldn't become a murderous dictators because they lost a loved one. Snyderman did.

He is worse on his moral compass than most regular people.

>>92983797
Okay. Then Miracleman is also Superman.

>>92983829
I actually like Superman Returns, I don't claim that it necessarily is a great depiction of Supes, but I like it.

Is it just me or does it seem like DCEU fans are actually pissed off that people like Wonder Woman?

Is it because they finally realize that Disney hasn't been buying critics, but actually that Snyder shit was just bad?

>>92983874

>Most people wouldn't become a murderous dictators because they lost a loved one

Injustice.

>>92983874
Call me when he becomes a murderous dictator, because he hasn't yet.
And he's currently six feet under.

>>92983889
OP here.
I loved WW and found it to be as good as MoS and BvS.

I think critics just liked the female director and star angle.

>>92983875
no, he's Captain Marvel

>>92983874

The future implied that Superman was being used by Darkseid and blamed Batman for failing to protect Lois. It doesn't necessarily mean that he became evil because Lois died.

>>92983892
I'm curious as to what you think citing Injustice is going to prove. That Superman was also a tremendous cunt. At least then they had the decency to cop to it.

>>92983892
Yeah, I almost wrotte too that even dumb shit like injustice had better reasons and progressions with it.

>>92983899
You are just going to ignore a vision from the future that was avoided? Because it is still true that it would have happened that if wasn't for Flash.

>>92983963
>Because it is still true that it would have happened that if wasn't for Flash.
Source?

>>92983925
Captain Marvel is Superman.

>>92983940
You just posted a different way of saying "because Lois died".

>>92983963

But that future didn't implied that Superman became evil because of Lois.

>>92983892
Which just about everyone agrees that it is a trainwreck of storytelling where every character acts as out of character as possible and makes the opposite of their normal choices.

It even has John Constantine being an upstanding individual who shoulders his responsibilities and thinks about his own well being second to another's!

>>92983981
Batman vs Superman.

>>92983993
>she was my world you took her from me
[one boring slog later]
>lois, you are my world
And people say I didn't watch the movie.

>>92983918
They were probably also big fans of the consistent story, uplifting message, and relatable character development.

Or yeah, I'm sure it's just MUH WOMEN.

>>92982278
he just sounds autistic if you ask me

>>92984019
But that wasn't implied in the movie at all.

>>92983889
The only DCEU movie I dislike is Suicide Squad. That shit is hot garbage. I really like how WW ties into BVS: Diana starts out hopeful and optimistic about humanity when WW1 ends, then as time goes on she becomes more cynical and jaded, only to have her faith restored after witnessing Superman's sacrifice. Same as Batman.

>>92984025
>MUH WOMEN.
Did you forget the part where I said I liked it?
Critics are just ideologues mate.

>>92983878
My problem with Returns is not it's portrayal of Kal, but more that it's dull. I get that it's trying to be more introspective, but it's just a bore.

>>92984029
But it was.

>>92983985
that is also true but there's enough differences between them that they can be considered different characters

Superman and Alan Moore's Supreme, though, they're pretty much the same

>>92984037
>then as time goes on she becomes more cynical and jaded
I bet WW2 has something to do with it.

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>>92983992

No, it just means that Superman was working for Darkseid for whatever reason and he blamed Batman for failing to protect Lois. It doesn't mean that he became evil with her that. That's something you're inferring. Flash just said she was the key to stop it, but that could mean anything. Maybe Lois is the only one who can kick Darkseid's ass. I don't know.

Snyder himself said he placed that scene to make the movie less linear and the whole thing was kept purposely dreamy and vague.

>>92984048
Source from within the film?

>>92984047
Eh, I have nostalgia for it.

>>92984037
Yeah. I'm someone who will defend MoS and BvS director's cut to the end, but I can't defend the mess that was Suicide Squad.

>>92984043
I know you liked it. Those are your opinions, and I'm not here to tell you you're wrong. But you implied that critics only liked it because of feminism.

Do you think that maybe -- just maybe -- most people weren't impressed with BvS but actually really like WW?

>>92984037
>>92984076
SS wasn't an unpleasant waste of 2 hours for me, but it wasn't great.

I actually like Leto as the Joker and look forward to him and Affleck interacting.

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>Snydertards only like his version of Supes because they can project onto his pathetic miserable ass

>>92984029
It has Batman getting a vision of the future where Superman works with Darkseid to conquer the earth. Just before he kills Batman, Superman says "She was my world". Right after that a rip in time opens up and Flash sticks his head out and warns Batman to "protect her" and asks if he is too early.

In the movie, both Martha and Lois are in mortal danger and need to be saved.

If Superman didn't have WW and Batman backing him up, Doomsday would have taken too much of his attention to notice Lois was dying.

If Batman hadn't saved Martha then Lex's thugs would have killed her.

Either way there was a huge chance of them dying and it is implied and practically spelled out for you by Snyder that Superman would go insane and ruin the world with Darkseid.

>>92984098
Maybe. I can't imagine why though.
WW was not that far from MoS in tone.
I was worried that they were going to go full Marvel, but they didn't, and it was great.

>>92984103
For the most part, the performances were actually fine. It's just that the material itself was so garbage.

Well that, and it's probably the worst movie editing I've ever seen.

>>92984121
>only like his version of Supes
>only
Source?

>>92984143
>the performances were actually fine. It's just that the material itself was so garbage.
I agree.
I would like to see some/most of the characters again, just in a better plot.

>>92984098
I feel like Wonder Woman is getting overrated both because it's better than the DCEU's previous offerings and also muh women

it's ok, but nothing really amazing

>>92984103
I don't have an opinion on Leto's Joker, mainly because he didn't have enough screentime to really leave an impression.

>>92984121
Why so hostile, anon?

>>92984163
>it's better than the DCEU's previous offerings
It's about on par with Snyder's entries. So pretty great.

>>92984196
not really, BvS is garbage and MoS is subpar

If they made the Joker and Croc so bland I am absolutely terrified to see the rest of Batmans rogues.

>Joker: twitchy gangster
>Croc: gruff nigga thug

>>92984163
I think that's true to an extent, I guess -- the bar was pretty low.

But while it wasn't amazing, it was as good as just about any other capeshit lately.

>>92984208
BvS is 8.5/10 and MoS is 8/10.

>>92984242
>the bar was pretty low.
see
>>92984244

>>92984224
>>Joker: twitchy gangster
Joker has always been a gangster/mobster though.

>>92984244
ok Mr. Contrarian

>>92984260
I don't disagree, but this Joker was nut much else than a crazy modern gangster. he was very generic

>>92984268
>contrarian
Why is this a word?
Having an opinion should not have anything to do with other people's opinions.

>>92984283
>he was very generic
Eh, I disagree. Leto had a sexual bent that I enjoyed.

>>92980904
wonder woman is always eager to save people, and she has a certain drive that makes it look like she actually loves helping people, she doesnt scowl or mope when saving people, the responsibility of helping people isnt a millstone around her neck

she is someone you can look up to, someone who makes you feel like everything is right in this world

>>92984302
because it's not a matter of opinion that they're bad movies.

whether you liked them or not does not affect their quality, it just means you have bad taste. Saying that they are actually good movies and everyone else is wrong is contrarian.

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>>92984344
WOMAN OF MURDER

>>92984051
Yes. Superman was born a human and became a comic book artist that gets his powers from a meteorite that can alter reality.

>>92981613
Are you implying that the manifestation of his father was nothing more then a placeholder so he could talk with himself? Rather then a convenient way to visualize the character coming to terms with his current situation based on the teachings of his father gathered from being raised by the man in a convenient format to explain why he came to said conclusion for the movie viewer? Aould youbhave prefered a Forrest Gump " well my papa always said..."?

>>92984371
>because it's not a matter of opinion that they're bad movies.
Objective source that shows that the are objectively bad?

>>92984375
while she does kill people, there is a different context, doing so in self defense against legal combatants instead of executing a downed foe who cannot resist

>>92984386
>details are different, that means the core concept is different

>>92984394
here's an objective source: anyone with half a brain can see a poorly written, poorly acted, poorly edited, poorly shot movie and say "this is bad" while only a contrarian would see it and say "this is actually amazing"

>inb4 >poorly shot followed by some more bullshit defending a shitty movie

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>>92983236
>peak Superman
I don't think you are using that term correctly

>>92984455
>
You just posted your opinion though.

>>92984051
>there's enough differences between them that they can be considered different characters
>>92984424
>>details are different, that means the core concept is different
Icon is closer to Superman than Supreme is.
But neither are Superman. Because if they were they'd be called Superman.

>>92984455

You could say all that shit about WW, though.

>>92984474
the editing is fine, the writing and cinematography is serviceable, and it's really just the lead that is poorly acted

which is a pretty major mark against it, but not to the degree of BvS where everyone either isn't trying or just straight up can't act

>>92984474
you could, but there wouldnt be as many people agreeing with you

>but argumentum ad populum
taste is subjective, and consensus really is the only way to judge taste, it isnt perfect but for something like a movie it really is the only way to judge it other than box office numbers

>>92984531
>where everyone either isn't trying or just straight up can't act
Source?

>>92984472
>if they were they'd be called Superman
but I'm calling Supreme Superman right now

>>92984536
the movie and knowing anything about acting

>>92984552
And you're wrong.
Supreme is as much Superman as Doctor Manhattan is. Your brand of bullshit can ONLY fly in a Snyderman thread.

>>92984578
look anon we can keep trying to have this argument in circles but we're not going to get anywhere if you don't read Alan Moore's Supreme

>>92980997

He clearly means where Supes murders Zod with his bare hands.

God, you're dense.

>>92984472
the core concepts of Superman and Captain Marvel are different, the core concepts of Alan Moore's Supreme and Superman are not

>>92984576
So no source?

BUT

MUH

QUIPS

>>92984630
I mean I guess if you admit to not knowing anything about acting

>>92984632
>quips
>a bad thing
we all know if we were super heroes we would crack a joke as often as possible to keep morale up and distract our foes and because its cool

>>92984597
>>92984612
Oh I get it now .Your autism is seeing the red cape. That's why you think they're the same character.

>>92984671
let's be real, if we were superheroes we'd probably mumble "y-you too" when the villains yell "I'LL GET YOU NEXT TIME!"

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>>92984691

>>92981204

And Id happily take 5 more movies with Donner Supes over the grimdark angsty Christ figure who murders people we got the past two movies.

>>92981206

You sound like a battered wife defending and making excuses for her abusive husband.

>>92984698
you are doing it wrong, if they say "I'll GET YOU NEXT TIME" you say "thats what you said last time!"

>>92984648
Juliard pls.

>>92984734

>Christ figure who murders people we got the past two movies.

That's Donner Superman, though.

>>92984734
see
>>92983420

>>92981563
>In my opinion, the movie makes the moral character of Jonathan Kent VERY clear.

Yeah. "Let people die, son. If you have to save somebody, save yourself."

>>92984870
No,
>you are my son

>>92982051

Its not saving people that he hates. He hates everyone seeing him as a godlike figure or a massive threat with no real regard for human life. Which is meta as fuck, since that's the exact reason the IRL critics of this interpretation of Supes hate him:

They see him as a glorified Jesus figure, or as an asshole threat to humanity who hates saving people.

>>92981728

I guess HL Mencken was right when he said "Nobody ever went broke underestimating the taste of the American public."

>>92985041
maybe if he smiled and hung around everyone he saved and maybe talked with them a bit before zooming off to save more people,stick around for photo ops and generally project what he already is to everyone else, a good man doing the right thing

people wouldnt get the wrong idea

>>92984607
You mean the part where he chooses the lives of innocents over the last of his people and then yells in anguish over the fact that he killed an unarmed opponent?
Yeah, what a dick.

>>92985058
I think that applies to more to shit like
>we're friends from work!11111111!!!!!!!!1!1
Honestly.

BvS has very little action or humor and in that sense isn't very american.

>>92985110
I see it, but the DCEU isn't high cinema, and it's really the movie's fault for not elaborating on how much it hurt Clark to kill Zod- it could have been easily done in a 30-second talk with Martha. Again, for the average movie goer- I understood his emotions by the scream, but for some reason it looks like others did it.

>>92985115
>not liking "friends from work"
that was hilarious, man

>save someone
>look in the distance with a grim, disappointed look

That's probably why.

The reasons people dislike MoS can be reduced to:
>muh color filter
>muh necksnap
>muh collateral damage
>not muh Reeve

>>92985172
>not elaborating on how much it hurt Clark to kill Zod
We see his intense grief you dungus.

>>92985255
pretty on the money there

>>92985237
He was smiling while carrying the girl to her mother. He only looked grim when they started to try and touch him like he was some kind of divine savior.

>>92985237
why cant you
>save person
>smile and reassure them it will all be ok
>drop him down into the crowd and say "all in a days work" then congratulate the firefighters and officers for a job well done and saving people as well
>fly off to save more people
just because its a responsibility deoesnt make it a chore

>>92984607
this kind of naivety has ruined comics
or maybe I've grown too old to appreciate lofty childish ideals

>>92984671
also, cause of the adrenaline of having fucking super powers would be the best high

>>92985287
>implying Superman thinks saving people is a chore

eat a bullet

>>92985334
This was shown very well in the first flight scene. The music especially brought home the thrill of flying for me.

>>92985256
he's sad for 20 seconds then goes to make out with Lois

>>92985256
I know, but judging by reactions a lot of people don't. Remember "In my theater there was a guy who, when Zod was killed, got up and yelled 'Okay! That's it! I'm out!' And that guy was me"?

>>92985346
as presented in the movie, he seems to

>>92985419
It isn't even mentioned on the other movies.

So much for "justification for no kill rules" when nothing implies that he has one.

>>92985419
>not seeking comfort when in grief
wew my good lad

>>92983493

The fuck do you read?

>>92982156

This nigga.

He gets it!.

>>92985434
Hum, I did something similar when they did that title drop in TDK. I mean, come on:
>"He's a silent guardian, a watchful protector, a Dark Knight"
I left the theater immediately.

>>92985453
>hm, the city is crumbling around me, thousands have died, more are probably trapped in the rubble, and I just took a life for the first time
>better go make out with this chick I met a few hours ago

>>92985485
this is a quality post and I want you to know I appreciate it

>>92985464
Secret Identity, ASS, Morrison JL, Lots of stuff from around the DCU where Supes shows up.

>>92985495
>not seeking comfort when in grief
Sometimes I think it's Snyder haters that are the autistic and unfeeling ones.

>>92985532
it's just tonally dissonant, i.e. one of the movie's major and most glaring flaws

>>92982714
>Superman killed in the comics before

That's no longer canon.We've had a couple Crises since then. And it was retarded when Bryne did it too.

>>92985582
>it's just tonally dissonant
Not to me, making it subjective.

>>92985532
Speaking of that, I love the scene where Clark calls his mother after watching coverage of himself on the TV.

>>92982764

You rockin' that Stockholm Syndrome, girl!

>>92985583
Supes kills Parademons in the current continuity.

>>92985602
Or maybe he likes good movies.
Just a thought.

>>92982769
>It is just Superman being geneticaly inclined to wear a piece of fabric.

GENETICS DO NOT WORK THAT WAY.

>>92985591
no, it just means you have bad taste

>>92985628
Source?

>>92985648
Man of Steel is a bad movie
You like Man of Steel
Therefore, you have bad taste

>>92985625
And this is why this is stupid.

>>92985654
>Man of Steel is a bad movie
Gonna need an objective source.

>>92985303

You do seem bitter, nihilistic, and bleak.

Because even IF all the destruction made sense-- even IF it was all perfectly justified and there was just no other way to write the script to NOT include that much destruction and gloom, it just wasn't fun to watch. it was a miserable headache inducing slog over indulgent in surface level violence that does an enormous disservice to the character.

So he saves a few guys at an oil rig. He also acts like a bitch and twists a guy's truck into a mangled heap. He watches his father die in the most botched scene since that time Catwoman played basketball. He saves a single serviceman's life then proceeds to tear Smallville to shreds.

The give and take of his heroics is depressing to watch and not because it's supposed to be.

>>92985723
>in the most botched scene
In what way?

>>92985519

You/re not a very careful reader, are you?

>>92985419
And Jenny climbs out of the rubble and says "He saved us!"
A huge smoldering crater and fires all around. His super hearing picking up every anguished moan and plea for help. He can literally hear hundreds of hearts beating their last beats.

Gotta frech Lois real quick...

>>92985771
see
>>92985532

>>92985678
there are several objective factors in determining whether a movie is good or bad
WRITING
>do the characters have believable motivations and convictions?
>are these motivations and convictions presented to the audience, either through dialogue or their actions and the performance of the actors (remember this part)?
>do these motivations influence their actions in the plot?
>does the plot make sense?
>do the characters affect the plot?
>is there conflict within the plot that is resolved by the end?
>Is the dialogue believable, like you could hear it coming out of a real person's mouth, that is, do characters speak like people and not like platitude machines?
ACTING
>do the actors react believably to the situations presented to them in a manner consistent with the character?
>do the actors make you believe that they are not actors?
>are the character's motivations effectively presented through acting?
>do the actors work well together and thus interact believably (the ever-elusive "chemistry")?
>do they display an effective range of emotions that is believable for the situations presented?
at the same time, are the also sufficiently downplayed that they are not broadcasting their thoughts and feelings on a Jumbotron (this one can be tricky, and can be part of a character)?

if you answered "no" to any of these questions, consider re-examining what you consider good in movies.

>>92985753
When people criticize that scene, defenders make the mistake of assuming the point of the scene was missed, and that if you dislike that scene you just dont get it...

The point is there was no reason to write that scene the way it was to deliver the same point. Everything on screen SHOUTS that there were better ways for that bit to play out. But the delivery was so hilariously tone deaf that it is the most enduring thing of that movie, with or without Chris Evan's face superimposed on it.
Have pa get hurt and the only way to help is to fly/run/carry him (or choose not to in front of people). Have Pa at LEAST die saving another human damn being not a dog that fucking runs off never to be seen again anyway. How did a tornado appear without Clark hearing it? He can hear people talking through walls but not a goddamn force of nature that sounds like a freight train fifty yards in front of him?

Could Clark NOT have run out there and saved the dog to make it back in time without the crowd thinking he was super? Their huge 6'6'' built like a tank son couldn't have jogged out there at a normal pace and made it back? Fuck that scene.

>>92985807
Yeah I see it. So? Are we supposed to ignore it when a movie fucks up at every level? Isn't that what retards get accused of doing?

>>92985939
>defenders make the mistake of assuming the point of the scene was missed, and that if you dislike that scene you just dont get it...
that's the fucking problem with the DCEU, defenders just assume everyone who doesn't like it is dumber than them and just didn't get it. The thought doesn't cross their minds that people got it and didn't like it because they're so far up their own ass they can't even consider someone smarter than them not liking it.

>>92985939
>>92985993
Nice boogeyman guys.
I merely asked in what way you considered it botched.
Really excellent victim complex you guys have. Truly exquisite.

>>92985928
What's believable or not is subjective, anon. It's a personal value judgement, nothing quantifiable.

>>92986029
well here's a couple examples of believable and unbelievable, from the same movie, in fact!
>Superman gets pissed because Luthor is threatening his mother
>Superman looks mildly constipated then flies away because the US Capitol was just blown up, killing hundreds
>Batman is both terrified of and driven to stop an unknown actor with the power of a God
>Batman's entire character arc is resolved an he becomes instant best friends with someone because their moms have the same first name

>>92986164
I perceived those things very differently than you, apparently.
I saw Supes' reaction to the bombing as resignation that this situation was going to be a clusterfuck.

>>92986195
that's not what Cavill's acting showed, and flying away was not a believable action for what defenders claim Superman's character to be.

>>92986247
>and flying away
He helped get people out in the extended cut.
And no, I don't care that that scene wasn't in the theatrical cut.
The fact that Snyder filmed that scene at all is what damages your stance.

>>92986278
well I didn't bother watching an even longer version of a movie that I already found too long and boring

>>92986335
Well you should, if said longer cut adresses at least one of your complaints.

>>92986344
nah, I got better ways to spend 3+ hours

like watching paint dry

>>92986358
Ok bud. Sorry about your condition.

>>92986393
good taste does feel like a burden sometimes, but I manage

>>92986425
If you had good taste I wouldn't be offering you my pity.

>>92986432
that's because you have bad taste but you think it's good taste, and as a Bizarro-person, pity is actually admiration

Me am ungrateful for your pity, Bizarro-anon

>>92986487
>that's because you have bad taste but you think it's good taste
I have good taste though so I don't follow.

File: hubba bubba dubba.jpg (100KB, 477x640px) Image search: [Google]

100KB, 477x640px

>>92986560
of course you do, little buddy

>>92986580
goddammit moot

>>92986580
I own Dark Night in hardcover though so yes, I have good taste.

>>92986624
that's reasonably ok taste at best

>>92986164

>Superman looks mildly constipated then flies away because the US Capitol was just blown up, killing hundreds

He was feeling sad and guilty about the deaths, and in the Extended Edition he saves the few survivors and feel even more shitty when the paramedics are scared to approach him.

>Batman is both terrified of and driven to stop an unknown actor with the power of a God

He was more conflicted than terrified.

>Batman's entire character arc is resolved an he becomes instant best friends with someone because their moms have the same first name

They didn't became best friends because of that. They didn't even became best friends. Batman actually got more angry when Superman used his mother name, because of the PTSD episode it triggered on Batman. Batman only calmed down when Lois appeared to explain the situation and warm both of Lex's plans. That's the only moment Batman calms down long enough to realize he had been played. Part influenced by the fact that he juxtaposed his father's image on Superman. Even then Batman was still a murderous asshole when he went to rescue Superman's mom. It's only after Superman's heroic sacrificed that he was truly redeemed.

But hey, you're the authority on objective facts here, right?

>>92986661
I disagree. You probably think Cerebus is great.

>>92986686
it is for the first 200~ issues