I just watched this again as prep for WW, and it really is very

>>92969798
>I just watched this again as prep for WW, and it really is very good.

Stop.

You've been doing this for years and you have yet to change the reality of the situation. The film was shit and WW managed to be good by distancing itself as much as possible from Snyder's dogshit abominations.

It's WORSE than Prometheus because Prometheus at least can into basic pacing and editing. BvS can't even do that shit right.

>>92969836
>the reality of the situation
It's my subjective opinion you fool.
As your opinion is yours.

>reality
pls

>>92969836

Prometheus was terrible.

Goddamn, /co/, you shouldn't discuss about films.

>>92969871
Prometheus is an excellent film.

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>>92969836
aaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaand /thread

Goodnight everybody!

>>92969894
see
>>92969868

>>92969836
you do know snyder wrote the story for the wonder woman movie yeah?

>>92969929

He'll say that Johns wrote it all in an afternoon at the set despite Johns not being credit as a writer anywhere.

>>92969871
Yes, Prometheus was terrible, and nobody said otherwise.

They just said BvS was even worse.

>>92969836
I liked prometheus, but it was very flawed

and covenant made it worse

this seems to be the opposite effect

>>92969965

You're wrong. BvS was better. You just hate it because the take on the characters bother you. Even BvS theatrical cut was less messy than Prometheus.

>>92969965
>and nobody said otherwise.
see
>>92969878

>>92969798
Prometheus was a good idea that was bothed up in order to fit in a franchise better.

BvS is a bunch of bad ideas bundled together with terrible direction and editing.

You think BvS was actually a good movie? I've heard that a lot around here, but I've never seen a signle argument that holds or a single counter-argument that is backed up by more than it's apologists' fanfiction.

If anything, BvS apologists is the most baffling hivemind around.

>>92969929
>this fucking lie

Zack came up with the basic idea and produced.

He didn't write the screenplay.

>>92970051
>but I've never seen a signle argument
Like what?
People explain what they like a bout the film, for example let's say I liked Lex.
You'd just say he's shit and that i'm wrong.

>>92969798
BvS is bad, first and foremost, because it's a superhero movie that has less than 10mins of action scenes in the first 2 hours. That alone makes it bad.

>>92970069
You cannot get a story credit in Hollrywood without at least one full draft of a script on the film.

>>92970009
Eh, that's not the initial poster in that arfument, you can tell by how the IP counter looked at the time.

>>92970075
no
I knew that a lot of the BvS hate really boiled down to ADHD.

>>92970088
Well then, his version must have been completely revised, because we know who wrote the film's screenplay and it wasn't him.

>>92970051

>BvS is a bunch of bad ideas bundled together with terrible direction and editing.

BvS had tons of good ideas. Most of /co/ hate it because they just wanted a live action JLU or something. Safe take on characters with a simple plot. But i agree with you that the editing was fucked.

>You think BvS was actually a good movie? I've heard that a lot around here, but I've never seen a signle argument that holds or a single counter-argument that is backed up by more than it's apologists' fanfiction.

And i've never seen an argument about why it's so bad other than nitpicky stuff or general stupidity of people that simple didn't watched the movie.

>>92970121
You don't know what you're talking about.
For example, George Lucas got a story credit for ESB, but not the screenplay credit.
But George wrote the story of ESB more or less as you see it onscreen, Kasdan just tightened up the dialogue/made adjustments that didn't change the course of the story itself.
Lucas is wrote ESB. He is the one responsible for "I am your father", Yoda, Hoth, Bespin, Walkers, Luke training, Han and Leia's subplot, etc...

He just wasn't the last guy to touch the script in a significant way, and the there's all these little clauses in the writers guild about stuff like that.

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>>92969798
>baffling hivemind reactions go.
Now that WB has decided to make good cape films again, we can recognize that the general audience "hivemind" was always right about BvS.

Wonder Woman doesn't go back in time and make Snyder's turds any more palatable.

Congrats on getting a good movie at last, and for acquiring Joss Whedon to fix things up moving forward.

>>92969798
After seeing WW I think I would have hated BvS a little less had WW came out before it.

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>>92969836

>>92969798
The BvS trolls are always very weak and obviously underage because they stop at 'this shit movie is good'.

You're supposed to come up with reasons that - while nonsensical - have just a tiny bit of weight to them so you can get a good argument going.

>>92970217
>posting a crap Marvel movie makes me right
Heh.

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>>92970246

>>92970217
>we can recognize that the general audience "hivemind" was always right about BvS.
No?
How does that logic follow?

>>92970246
>The BvS trolls
Is it that hard to accept that someone is posting their real opinion?
Are you that jaded?

>>92970246

>The BvS trolls are always very weak and obviously underage because they stop at 'this shit movie is good'.

The only ones that do that are the ones that criticize BvS as the worst thing ever. Every time you ask why, you get "It just is!" or while explaining why you clearly see they didn't really see it because they get plot points wrong.

>>92970071
You can like whatever the fuck you want.
Liking something does not mean it's good.
But the baffling hivemind kept talking about a misunderstood masterpiece.

So, there we have a character that has no motive whatsoever other than "is psychotic", which is not a legit motive. And his elaborate plans are really a mess, they simply make no sense.

>why you kidnap superman mother if you legitimately think he's a menace? If he is what you believe he is what keeps him from sending you into orbit?
>what was the point of him hiding the kryptonite from batman if the only continuation of this plot thread was that he wanted batman to get the kyptonite?
>why would he create a monster he could not hope to stop/control?
>why was he happy that Steppenwolf is on his way to assrape earth?

And on top of making absolutely no sense, he was the single most annoying character in any cape movie ever.

>>92970310
>he was the single most annoying character in any cape movie ever.
See, that's an opinion.

>>92970310
>>why was he happy
He wasn't happy?
You might actually be autistic.
Not being able to understand emotions and all that.

>>92970282
>>92970286
People posting their opinion can usually back it up. OP, and the vast majority of you people, never did that.

>>92970269
>Hurr durr he doesn't like Snyder's shit fest so he must be a Marvel fan
Their movies suck ass too, bitch.

>>92969798
>This being received negatively is up there with Prometheus as far as baffling hivemind reactions go.
See, that's when I was sure you were just havin' a giggle m8. Might as well throw in Alien: Covenant.

>>92970373
again, see
>>92970282

>>92970382
Well, it's hard for BvS apologists to comprehend that nobody liked their shit movie, and they cannot discuss it without bringing up conspiracy theories about RT etc.

>>92970103
No, anon. 10 minutes of action in a superhero movies for 2 hours is not a problem ADHD people face, exclusively. It's an actual, you-misunderstood-your-genre issue.

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>>92970412
I mean, it's hardly just a theory when it's so in your face.
TFA was the worst blockbuster in years and it's got 90+ percent.

>>92970433
>It's an actual, you-misunderstood-your-genre issue.
Source?

>>92970310

>why you kidnap superman mother if you legitimately think he's a menace?

Lex wanted to have power over Superman. He wanted to make a god bend to his will like he said.

>what was the point of him hiding the kryptonite from batman

He didn't.

>why would he create a monster he could not hope to stop/control?

He thought he could.

>why was he happy that Steppenwolf is on his way to assrape earth?

He doesn't care about the world, he only cares about having power and since knowledge is power and Steppenwolf was presenting him with knowledge...

See, this is all very obvious in the film. Take for example Lex and the need of him feeling more powerful than Superman.. Lex can't shut up about this shit. It's impossible to miss.

>>92970442
whatever makes you sleep better at night cuck

>>92970371

The ones that can't back up their opinions are the ones that usually bash the movies.

>>92970457
He's insecure and going to come back with
>Snydercucks need to pretend it's 2deep

Just let go and be happy you're not as dumb as he is.

>>92970457
Does Lex think Superman is a menace?

>>92970480
Then why am I seeing multiple people "praising" the movie without backing it up? Fucking idiot.

>>92969798
Stop drinking the Koolaid

>>92970492

This is the shit that i don't get. The people that generally bash the movie didn't simple missed the themes of the movie, they seem to not have watched. They confuse simple scenes. They get factual things about it wrong. It's like they only watched the trailers.

I get when someone tell me they hated the movie because the acting was mostly terrible, the CGI was fake as fuck, the third act was unnecessary, the plot was too convoluted, the movie was too long, there were not much beats to keep you engaged, and shit like that. I can agree with someone who say shit like that.

But generally on /co/ whenever there's a discussion about BvS it seems to me that the people that hate it the most simple didn't watched. They get things wrong and ask the most simple things that was answered planly in the movie.

>>92970548

No, he used that lie to get what he wanted. Lex hate Superman because Superman has power in a way that Lex will never be able to and because Lex think that Superman is conning the world much like he tries to do with his hip new age Silicon Valley attitude.

>>92970616
I agree, and I sometimes wonder if most people don't come to /co/ for actual discussion.

>>92970457
Not him, but here we go..

>Lex wanted to have power over Superman.

Why take his mother from fucking Kansas, on the other side of the country, to Metropolis? Why bring the mother of the super powerful guy that you are trying to blackmail right next to him? Why place her in a shitty abandoned building, with some puny humans as protection? Even worse because Superman already saved Lois at the start of the movie in similar circunstances. Really, why bring his mother right next to him, apart from making it possible for Batman to save her? This is just stupid and contrived.

>He thought he could.
Why and how? Use just what the movie shows, dont insert your headcanon. I have seem 7 different explanation made up by snydercucks, all claiming that it is "obvious". Hell, why make Doomsday at all if he isnt even monitoring the fight of Superman x Batman, that he spent 2 years preparin? Why he trhows the plan away for no reason at all and go full lunatic? Is it just to justify inserting Death of Superman into the narrative?

>>92969798
I enjoy it as well. Around this movie is where I stopped caring about the critical hivemind that pours in based on the first rotten tomato review. Forget buzzwords and symbolic explanations, I just enjoyed it. Same as Prometheus. I think there just has to be something that people hate and this film was one of them.

>>92970480
That's not been my experience.

That's not even supported by the posts in this thread. At least the first naysayer at the beginning said its pacing and editing were bad. The guys say it's good just say "it was good" or "it was kino" and leave it at that.

>>92970665
>Why and how?

BECAUSE HE USED HIS BLOOD TO CREATE HIM OMG WHAT A GENIUS MOVIE GIVE THEM ALL THE OSCARS BVS FANS ARE SO SMART

>>92970450
Every superhero fight issue ever.

>>92970310
>why you kidnap superman mother if you legitimately think he's a menace? If he is what you believe he is what keeps him from sending you into orbit?
>what was the point of him hiding the kryptonite from batman if the only continuation of this plot thread was that he wanted batman to get the kyptonite?
>why would he create a monster he could not hope to stop/control?
>why was he happy that Steppenwolf is on his way to assrape earth?

While the film is shit, none of these are the reasons for it being shit.

The actual reasons are much, much simpler than that, and mostly have to do with how Snyder handles pacing and narrative, pushing iconic forced 'awe' scenes at the expense of actual characterization and verisimilitude.

This guy gets it: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=38Cy_Qlh7VM&t=153s

>>92970648
But he said that if Superman is all powerful he cannot be all good and that people needed to see him for the fraud that he is

So he blames god for his father raping him, and he takes it out on Superman because to human's he's godlike.

The correlation is at best farfetched, don't you agree?

>>92970665

>first question

Because Lex was planning to kill Superman with Doomsday either way, and possibly wanted to kill Martha before it anyway to spite Superman. I agree that this part is contrived to make way for a cool action sequence later.

>second question

Lex thought he could control Doomsday for whatever reason because he wasn't expecting the creature to try and punch his head clean off. The movie show you this.

And Lex created Doomsday because he had no faith in Batman. His plan was for Superman to prove him right about Superman being an egoist fuck in killing Batman and then him ending Superman with a doomsday of his creation.

>>92970794

Lex doesn't believe in God, he used several deities to make his point across. He just wanted to prove that Superman was neither good, as people believed him to be, nor powerful.

The whole bit about his father was just to make the point across that god doesn't exist, that the very concept of god is a human creation, a tribal creation, a concept of my shit vs your shit.

>>92970796
then seriously why fucking bother with batman at all if it furthers nothing? going through all of that effort to manipulate batman and set up an ultimately meaningless conflict between the two just to prove a point seems kind of dumb, especially when the end result would have been the opposite of his intuition had the fight been able to conclude without the MARTHA bullshit. it's almost like batman was hastily stapled to the plot of what was originally planned to be a simple man of steel sequel.

>>92970787
>because he's not likely to kill you if someone he cares about is at stake
>was it really hidden? pretty obvious kryptonian tech was at the site, not hard to figure out for the world's greatest detective
>he probably knew kryptonite could kill either
>he wasn't happy? if anything he's giving bats info

>muh pacing and forced imagery
Yea every capefilm does this, especially first chapters. Useless buzzwords

>>92970911

Lex used anyone he could as pawns for his convoluted schemes to shit on Superman's life. Batman was just another pawn he took advantage of. Batman already had his issues with Superman, so Lex simple fanned the fire that was already brewing there.

And yes, Batman in Lex's schemes is quite inconsequential, but for the overall movie he's important.

>>92970796
>Because Lex was planning to kill Superman with Doomsday either way

Pardon me if I'm wrong, but didn't he learned how to actually do Doosday only after setting them up to fight? And if you are planing on using Doomsday anyway, why waste time and resources on all that dumb build up, including bombing the senate and the thing in Africa...for 2 fucking years? How this add to anything?

> I agree that this part is contrived to make way for a cool action sequence later.
Both fights were pretty shit to be honest.


>Lex thought he could control Doomsday for whatever reason because he wasn't expecting the creature to try and punch his head clean off.

Okay, this is the 8th explanation that a Snydercuck gives that he claims to be "totally obvious". He knew what he was creating, and even if the creature didnt tried to attack him, nothing says that it would have did whatever he said, it just felt random.

>And Lex created Doomsday because he had no faith in Batman.
So why spend 2 years to setup their fight, wasting resources, men and money? Why give Batman a weapon that could kill Superman AND Doomsday?

>>92969798
>it really is very good.
Everyone knows this. BvS is the best superhero movie. Only contrarians and SJWs say it's bad because they can't handle masculinity.

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>Good Idea
>Having Batman want to stop Superman because of the destruction in Metropolis, having him realize Superman is a hero like him and then they team up to stop a real bad guy
>Bad Idea
>having Batman be a crazy murderer
>Bad Idea
>Killing Superman in only his second movie
>Bad Idea
>Introducing Doomsday so early
>Bad Idea
>Eisenberg as Lex Luthor
>Bad Idea
>Making Superman a moody depressed guy who doesn't enjoy being a hero
>Bad Idea
>On the nose religious imagery
>Bad idea
>Having Superman say Martha
>Bad Idea
>The entire Doomsday sequence
>Bad Idea
>That Flash flashback dream but not a dream sequence

>>92970075
>>92970433
Wow I never knew Donner's Superman was a bad movie. Really made me think.

>n-no it's only bad when SNYDER does it!

>>92970959
You didn't have to answer any of those, dude, did you not that the guy you were replying to said they're not issues? Can you read?

>Yea every capefilm does this

No, they really don't. Snyder's obsession with spending as little time as possible just having full scenes where characters interact and as much time as possible in slo-mo wankfests is pretty iconic to him.

>Useless buzzwords

Which is itself a buzzword you're using to sweep aside a solid argument without having to make any effort or really engage with it.

By the way,
>forced imagery
didn't even come up there. Yes, there was forced imagery in BvS, but don't simplify a complex point simply because you can't respond to it in a valid manner.

>>92971031
Donner had good acting and character moments.

Things that people complain about MOS and BvS. Seriously, the shift im personality between Clark and Superman, and the interactions with Lois are some of the most praised aspects f the movie and helped to stabelish Superman in the minds of billions of people.

None of this exist in snyderman.

>>92970787
Is this the guy who can't even define "scene" in his video? Yeah he's retarded.

>>92970967
i feel like lex going so far out of his way to ruin the life of someone he's had no presence towards and no agency over and no real motivation to hate all based on the notion that he's just crazy so you can do whatever you want with him seems lazy and contrived.

>>92970974

Lex did the African massacre to ruin Superman's reputation so that he could fan distrust and resentment against Superman in the US in order to get his greasy palms on the acquired kryptonian shit that was with the government. The capitol bombing happened mostly because his plans were getting fucked. The politician didn't wanted to play ball and the fake witness for massacre had gotten away, so who knows what she might have spilled. The capitol bombing also helped to discredit Superman further.

I don't know what to say to you, just that it was obvious Lex thought he could control Doomsday. He stood all proud n' shit in front of Doomsday and crapped his pants when Superman had to hold Doomsday off from punching him.

Lex didn't gave him the kryptonite. Batman took it. Lex knew Batman had issues with Superman and wanted to work with Batman, but couldn't. So Lex took advantage of Batman to keep fanning his hate, in case he could use him, but then Batman stole his shit.

>>92971086
He did define it though. Or, rather, he described it.

Good job on the ad hominem, though. Really proves that you know what you're talking about and clearly have a great rebuttal up your sleeve. Doesn't highlight that you simply have no argument against this at all.

>>92971018

>having Batman be a crazy murderer
>Bad Idea

That was great, though.

>>92971052
Yes, they do. They all have slow origin story, training/early montage, lose a fight and be sad, then rush to defeat improbable odds. Every one.

>iconic forced awe scenes
>forced imagery
Same thing. Sounds like you're only used to buzzwords you recognize. Try a dictionary.

>>92971129

Lex in the movie used anyone he could without giving a fuck. Lex cares for no one and nothing. He only cares about being the top dog and having his way. If you're going to complain about him using Batman, then you should also complain about his using politicians, rebel leaders, pissed off people, his own assistant and so on.

>>92969798
It has issues but it's not the crime against humanity people acted like it was.

>>92971175
>They all have slow origin story, training/early montage, lose a fight and be sad, then rush to defeat improbable odds

...And this has literally nothing to do with what was being talked about. Jesus, dude, don't just try to arguer by supplanting your opponent's point with a completely different one.

A formula of overall film structure has almost NOTHING to do with how a film handles its pacing and scenes. You can have a film that follows every one of those beats but paces itself beautifully.

>Same thing.

Wow, so you're just straight up lying now?

I guess your mind has just been freaked too hard by how right I am. I'm sorry, anon, I'll try not to be so correct in future.

>>92971211
at least using the politicians helped further the end goal of creating a negative public image of superman so that if he were to die, lex wouldn't suffer as many negative repercussions were he ever found out as the one behind it. using batman is an excuse to get batman and superman to fight because it's in the movie title.

>>92969798
i feel like ive seen this thread before :^)

>>92971129
>lex going so far out of his way to ruin the life of someone he's had no presence towards and no agency over and no real motivation to hate

So exactly like Lex? Hell, the added parental abuse angle gives Lex more depth to his feud with Superman than most incarnations, who simply do it out of ego. Hell, several writers give him a motivation that more or less boil down to him being a sociopath.

>>92971289

> using batman is an excuse to get batman and superman to fight because it's in the movie title.

Of course, i agree with you in that regard.

I really loved the Director's Cut. I do get tired that it's a meme to hate the film though. Makes it hard to discuss anywhere, let alone on /co/.

I think the main problem people had with this movie is that the villain scheme isn't clean cut as in a lot of movies, where the villain have this grand scheme that when it is foiled in the third act the villain doesn't know what to do anymore and then you've the end fight.

In BvS Lex had one scheme, which when failed he quickly wiped up another one, then that kinda worked but created new set of complications, so he set to cut his loose ends with another one, and in the end he was pretty much trying to fuck everyone all around with yet another one. If you don't pay attention you get confused as fuck and the whole thing indeed does create a fucking convoluted story, to be fair. Also a fucking huge long movie.

>>92969942
Johns is a mediocre writer that has never been good writing wonder woman.

It's not even about it being underrated.

It's more about how it's barely even worse than most MCU flicks but got much more hate. I'd take BvS over Thor, Thor 2, Iron Man 3, and Avengers 2 any day of the week.

>>92971377

BvS should have been separated into two movies. Even outside of Lex's schemes within schemes there was too much shit in the movie. Shit that didn't had much room to be explored. It was a long ass movie with waaay to much content that still didn't had enough space to be properly addressed.

>>92971305
>my dad was abusive towards me therefore god cannot exist therefore superman cannot be god therefore i have to kill superman
vs
>hey this guy is really fucking dangerous and if he were to turn against humanity we wouldn't be able to do jack shit about it, i should do something about it before it's too late
never mind the fact that i don't think lex has exactly read the bible considering all the parental abuse that goes on in there, i think it's pretty clear which of these is the more compelling motivation. and the filmmakers agree with me apparently because they just straight up took it and made it batman's motivation. it's almost like they hastily stapled batman onto what was originally planned to be a simple man of steel sequel, then let snyder go nuts with what he wanted the villain's motivation to be in order to fit evangelion levels of biblical subtext into the movie.

>>92971490

>hey this guy is really fucking dangerous and if he were to turn against humanity we wouldn't be able to do jack shit about it, i should do something about it before it's too late

This is a lie comic Lex tell others and a lie movie Lex also used. So... i don't understand your point.

>>92971490

>i think it's pretty clear which of these is the more compelling motivation. and the filmmakers agree with me apparently because they just straight up took it and made it batman's motivation.

That's not Batman real motivation, though, that's just the justification he uses. Batman wants to off Superman because he hates himself and is seeing Superman as an extension of himself.

>>92971264
Those are all examples of bad pacing though, that's the point.

>>92971377
>>92971486

The real problem is that it's a Batman/Superman movie where the characters don't act like Batman and Superman. It should have been World's Finest, not this vs crap

>>92971627

It was always going to be a versus shitfest, m8.

And Superman behaves as himself throughout the movie. Only Batman is different and even then he's different in that the movie explore the idea of what would happen to Batman if after years of crusade he started to feel impotent and useless in the bigger scheme of things.

>>92971594
The fuck are you smoking?

You think any film with a rush against impossible odds at the end has bad pacing? That any film with a montage has bad pacing? That any film with a slow, steadily paced beginning is bad?

Nigga you're basically describing all movies at this point. There's nothing bad about any of those things unless they're implemented poorly. Their presence doesn't determine a film's pacing, how they're handled determines a film's pacing.

Fucking Rocky and A New Hope do most of these things.

>>92971685
>It was always going to be a versus shitfest, m8.

then it was doomed from the start

>>92971594
1. No, those are not all examples of bad pacing. They're not even examples of pacing by themselves. How they're executed determines how a film is paced.

2. Still has absolutely nothing to do with the point being made. The presence of those things has nothing to do with how poorly constructed and paced Snyder's scenes are. I believe that video actually goes into minute detail regarding the way some of these scenes are poorly paced and built, so I don't see how you could possibly misunderstand what's being said this hard.

The problem isn't that there's a slow beginning or a desperate rush at the end. Neither of those are bad things unless they're done badly. The problem is that all of the scenes in the film are transitory fluff that serve solely as mechanisms to hop from one unearned 'awesome moment' to the next. You see this especially in Snyder's inability to linger anywhere and his constant usage of recorded screens that quickly infodump on the audience - he's constantly trying to get to the next wankfest as quickly as possible, characters and pacing be damned.

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>>92971545
considering the fact that superman had shown no ill will towards lex or made any attempt to stop his actions prior, making his only remaining reasonable motivation a flat out lie strikes me as somewhat stupid. oh but it's ok, he doesn't have to be reasonable because he's craaaazy.
>>92971586
i saw no evidence of your claims in the movie, maybe that's some crap from the extended version of something. the opening scene in the movie, the first damn thing we see, is setting up batman's completely understandable motivation. it doesn't need any more than that, that would be superfluous and make the movie feel bloated, which it already is. almost like it's trying to cram too many things into one movie and set up as many future movies as possible, hey, wasn't there another superhero movie recently that did the exact same fucking thing and was universally shit on for it?

>>92971806

Lex felt threatened by Superman's physical power and social presence. That's all it took for movie Lex to hate Superman. That's also the same reason why comic Lex hate Superman. If movie Lex is crazy for that, then comic Lex is crazy as well. And both movie and comic Lex use the excuse that Superman is an alien threat that can't be trusted to look like a concerned citizen and throw people against Superman.

>i saw no evidence of your claims in the movie

HOW? The movie opens with Batman telling himself how the bats made him a beautiful lie and then continues with Batman blaming himself for everything that had happened and telling Alfred that he was never better than the criminals they fought against, how he has to make his life matter and killing Superman can be that, how he regretfully lived longer than his father, and so on and so on.

>>92969798
BvS is a boring 2-3 hour slog that tries to do what Amazing Spider-Man 2 tried to do, only much MUCH worse. It almost killed the DCEU. The climax of the film makes no goddamn sense, especially if its before Justice League. BvS would have worked if it was set AFTER the Justice League film. Instead, to play catch up (instead of building their characters) they made BvS and inserted WW in there. The last 30 mins are the best bits of the flim, and even then, feel empty, due to Justice League coming out after it. Stop saying this film is good when its absolute shit. That's like saying Suicide Squad is good because Harley is in it. Its not. SS just as bad as this film.

>>92972100

>BvS would have worked if it was set AFTER the Justice League film.

That makes no fucking sense given what happens in the movie.

>>92970974
Are you retarded son? Lex didn't get access to the krytptonian ship until after the Africa massacre thing. He wanted to create distrust for Superman so that they would give him access to the kryptonian shit for national defense purposes.


This is like flat out explained you dumb ass. And he blew up the senate to get rid of Molly Hunter who was the one senator standing up to him.


On TOP of that, it was also to push Batman further into his madness.

>>92970665
>>92970457
>>92970739
>>92970796
>>92970974
Also to you idiots who think Lex should have known exactly how to control Doomsday before creating him, I refer to you to the source material. Where Lex has made Bizarros multiple times without being able to control them, ontop of a host of other experiments he has made that he has lost control of, AND to the actual origin of Doomsday which is about a scientist losing control of him.


God you guys are fucking plebs.

>>92969798
its shit

>>92971143
>>92970974
>>92970911
>>92970796
also Lex wanted Batman to fight Superman as a failsafe for his plan.


His goal is to prove to the world that Superman isnt a benevolent god. He isnt super christ like lots of people think he is. In Lex's mind Superman either kills Batman, proving to the world he isnt all good, Batman kills Superman, proving he isnt all powerful.

Doomsday then exists to prove whichever one Batman fails to do.

If Superman kills Batman, then Doomsday kills Superman. If Batman kills Superman, then Doomsday kills Batman and proves to the world that super powered aliens are a menace.

>>92971146
his description of a "scene" is arbitrary. He just makes up a description to fit his very narrow definition and shitty argument.

>>92970310
>>92970787

Lex wanted Batman to steal the kryptonite (the info for where to find it, was in the files he let Batman steal from his party). The reason he made it hard for Batman to get it is that Batman wouldnt suspect him AND to force Batman and Superman to have an initial encounter where Batman looks liked a crazed hobo.

>>92971018
You are dumb man, the movie portrays Batman as a killer AS a bad idea.


Also Superman DOES enjoy being a hero, if you noticed his entire motivation for BEING a hero is because he wants to, what he doesnt enjoy is being a god.

>>92971018
This, tbqh. Snyderfags need to stop reaching. The one good DCEU movie wasn't directed by Snyder and you need to accept that. You can still like the movies, but stop acting like they're better than they are

>>92971806
>i saw no evidence of your claims in the movie,

wtf how? Do you think all that shit about Superman being the end to his crusade and showing his guilt over Robin and his parents were there for nothing? And did you not notice how Batman was repeatedly lying to Alfred. First about the dirty nuke that was in gotham. Then when he is busted on that lie, he follows up with another lie, "muh 1%" bullshit.


Batman is a liar in general and especially in this movie, constantly lying to himself more than anything.

>>92971305
His dad abuse wasnt important, he used it. To justify himself, remember, his dad used him to get money from investors, all the shit he says about his dad are not relevant to his motivation, the final straw is that while God wasn't there to save him from his father fist, superman was there to save him from his own abomination, and Lex still hates him. Lex is a petty evil guy that doesn't give a shit about nothing, he just wants to be top dog and superman makes him feel like the piece of shit he truly is.

>>92972810

This is how i feel whenever i discuss BvS on /co/. Fucking bafflement.

>>92972710
>people are still replying to that second quoted post as though it brings these things up as problems, when it explicitly states that these aren't problems and the actual bad parts of the film are elsewhere

For what purpose?

>>92973030
im just responding to it to acknowledge that I read it and it is part of the same conversation thread.

>>92971377
That's not even remotely the main problem, stop trying to trivialize the situation. Even if his scheme wasn't as sloppily written as it was, there are still various other reasons people don't like this movie. It isn't some black and white issue where if ___ didn't happen everyone would somehow love it

The biggest problem with this movie for people is that the characters hid their real motivations between lies. That confuse modern audiences because i feel they don't like to pierce things together, specially in cape movies. So they take at face value whatever a character say and if a character act contradictory to it they're left confused and angry. So the movie mistake was not to show characters giving exposition to how they rightly feel.

>>92972688
You can argue all you want with how he defines scenes, but there's no arguing that he's entirely correct about how bad Snyder is at crafting them, and how almost everything in BvS is basically fluff designed to move events into the next 'super iconic moment' Snyder desperately wants.

This is why the film is constantly flicking around between scenes without establishing shots for much of the movie. Snyder wants to cram so many of these moments in as possible, without properly setting them up and with as little time between as possible, resulting in a distinct case of Phantom Menace syndrome.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qvc9_GDoWI4

The result of this shit is here as it is in other such films - a choppy, poorly paced mess with no sense of verisimilitude and no payoff in any of its scenes that strive to be iconic.

>>92973181
Hah.

>https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KseqzmcqQBQ

Lucas' 'stylistically designed to be this way' shit really reminds me of how BvS apologists insist that all the poor editing choices and bad pacing is part of how kino and adventurous it is.

>>92970185
I enjoyed the editing, didn't find it too much at all. Was honestly surprised at the reviews that complained it jumped around too much.

>>92973181
he is entirely wrong about everything he says because it all stems from HIS shitty definition of a scene. Once you take away his arbitrary "This is a scene" "this is a moment" bullshit his whole argument falls apart.
> how almost everything in BvS is basically fluff designed to move events into the next 'super iconic moment' Snyder desperately wants.


The only evidence you have for this is because of his shitty definition of what a moment is vs a scene. Infact id say a great deal of the "KINO" posts prove this is wrong because it shows HOW MUCH detail and care Snyder put into every single shot, especially the ones that WERENT the big iconic moments.
>This is why the film is constantly flicking around between scenes without establishing shots for much of the movie.


But it doesnt do that at all! There is an establishing shot of the funeral, establishing shot of metropolis, establishing shot of the water field where they find the kryptonite, an establishing shot of the warehouse where Batman saves the girls, establishing shot of the senate, establishing shot of Africa, etc. I could go on! The only time Snyder doesnt use them is when transitioning into an interior conversation. For example when he cuts to Perry talking to Clark about covering the football game, or cuts to Luthor in his office with Molly Hunter. Its because those are meant to be these intimate moments, conversations that feel as big AS The big moments, so he scales his shots accordingly. A big establishing shot makes a conversation like that feel small. Where as if you establish the scene with a shot of Luthor sitting on his desk or Perry angrily yelling for Clark, you set up the power dynamic AND scale of the scene in a single shot.
>Snyder wants to cram so many of these moments in as possible

how can you say this? Most of the movie is dedicate to conversations that built up to these things. In fact its one of the slowest paced superhero movies since Unbreakable.

Freddy Vs Jason and King Kong vs Godzilla were better films. Prove me wrong.
You can't

>>92973448
>Infact id say a great deal of the "KINO" posts prove this is wrong because it shows HOW MUCH detail and care Snyder put into every single shot, especially the ones that WERENT the big iconic moments.

This literally means nothing if those scenes have no emotional content, are too rushed to really convey anything, or swing in and out of the film in the awkward manner they do.

>The only time Snyder doesnt use them is when transitioning into an interior conversation.

I think you underestimate how much Snyder does this in the film and how jarring and weird it is. So much of the money is AND SUDDENLY we're in mid conversation here at this other place and the fuck. It doesn't help that the angles he chooses to film at are all incredibly personal and don't let you place his characters. Because almost none of these scenes have real content and so many of these characters are underdeveloped - Perry being a real big one here - you don't get those power dynamics you mentioned, you just get a continuous stream of jagged dialogue tracks that awkwardly crash into one another and feel tonally inconsistent as fuck.

>Most of the movie is dedicate to conversations that built up to these things.

Conversations that come in and out so quickly and awkwardly they might as well be absent, and often provide little else but exposition. I don't want to be told about Superman and told why I should be sad when he dies, I want to be shown it, and not in a fucking montage of him looking depressed and messianic. There is not a single scene in the film where Clark seems naturally placed in his surroundings or where he gets time to just be Clark fucking Kent.

>>92969798
>This thread again
>More autistic arguing comedy
Thanks, OP. You absolute hilarious faggot.

File: 1452574063468.gif (2MB, 400x400px) Image search: [Google]

2MB, 400x400px

Snydercucks are objectively the worst live action fanbase. Never saw a fanbase that demandas praise and that everyone most find their shit perfect.

They end up looking smug and insecure.

>>92973693
>This literally means nothing if those scenes have no emotional content, are too rushed to really convey anything, or swing in and out of the film in the awkward manner they do.


But they dont do any of that.

>start talking about frame composition
>have to suddenly switch to character content because your argument holds no water.
>again have no evidence or proof to back anything up while the post before you had plenty
>all these statements that dont actually mean anything


>you just get a continuous stream of jagged dialogue tracks

Like what do you even think that sentence means? Do you know what a track is? How are they jagged? You are just stringing together words here without any thought or reason or evidence. Its truly pathetic.
>Conversations that come in and out so quickly and awkwardly they might as well be absent, and often provide little else but exposition.

AHAHAHAAHAH what? One of the biggest problems of this movie is the LACK of exposition. Please tell me, other than the African lady explaining she was set up by Luthor, where is there any exposition? They dont even tell us Robin died outside of a single visual cue, they dont even directly tell us Batman's motivations.

The most exposition I can think of is Lex saying how he pushed the Bat with some letters.


> I don't want to be told about Superman and told why I should be sad when he dies,

When do they ever say that...?
> I want to be shown it
Thats on you man, when I saw how Superman was willing to sacrifice himself TWICE in a row to save the world (first with the nuke, which he takes like a champ and then goes RIGHT back into fighting when he recovers) I was pretty moved. And the montage of him helping people, DESPITE them treating him like a god, really re-enforced his love for humanity for me.


> where he gets time to just be Clark fucking Kent.

Wut....

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TCik5tlh3m8
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5APyiK_OKJY

>>92973873
who is demanding praise? show me one post....? mostly its the ani-snyder fags who say its objectionally bad and anyone who likes it has objectionablly terrible taste....

>>92969836
>It's WORSE than Prometheus because Prometheus at least can into basic pacing and editing. BvS can't even do that shit right.
It's worse but Prometheus editing isn't good. They cut every scenes that explain character's motivation among others problems.

>>92969798
Superman:
>Batman your methods are too awful, you've crossed the line, you must stop!
>Now excuse me while I angrily body this terrorist through a wall, killing him instantly
>Oh yeah, also, CONSIDER THIS MERCY nigga, because if I don't act like a suspicious fascist thug you have no reason to fight me

I'm sorry, but absolutely nothing can excuse how arbitrary and contradictory the character are in this film. Their personalities flip flop around to suit the plot and none of them have any agency of their own.

Lex is the only person who makes sense, but he's uninteresting as hell and his plans are all retarded and hinge on all the other characters being total drooling retards.

>>92969836
>The film was shit
Hahaha no, marvelcuck.

>>92969798
>>>92969798
>Superman:
>>Batman your methods are too awful, you've crossed the line, you must stop!
>>Now excuse me while I angrily body this terrorist through a wall, killing him instantly

He didn't kill him, nice headcanon tho.
>>Oh yeah, also, CONSIDER THIS MERCY nigga, because if I don't act like a suspicious fascist thug you have no reason to fight me

He was trying to intimidate a violent vigilante, superman does that shit.

>I'm sorry, but absolutely nothing can excuse how arbitrary and contradictory the character are in this film. Their personalities flip flop around to suit the plot and none of them have any agency of their own.

Bullshit

>>92973181
>This is why the film is constantly flicking around between scenes without establishing shots for much of the movie
Source?

>>92973873
You scared me.

>>92974158
>https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TCik5tlh3m8

Jesus Christ I forgot how bad these scene were.

>hey everyone, look at this screen so it can tell you the plot
>Clark just walks around looking confused or blank, just letting people decide shit for him
>hey people, look at this other screen so it can tell you more of the plot
>no framing, no fucking agency on Clark's part, no iota of character from him
>every character talks like some kind of weird robot, none of the dialogue is remotely natural

Thanks for reminding me how bad this movie really was. Fuck.

>>92974158
A whopping two scenes, impressive.
Also, did you notice how the first one says "[Ultimate edition]"? It's because it's a scene that wasn't in the theatrical release.
So the movie the vast majority of people watched has barely 2 minutes of Clark Kent being a normal human being.

So can we add "I just watched this again" to
>Now that the dust has settled
>Apologize
>What did they mean by this

>>92974595
>He didn't kill him, nice headcanon tho.
Hey can you explain something to me?
How come when Clark says in this that he didn't kill a guy that should logically be dead, it's believable, but when Batman and a bunch of other characters in TDKR says he's not killing anybody, we're not supposed to believe it, and that's the justification for him being able to manslaughter all over the place here?

It just seems like a double standard, is all.

>>92970004
They're both shit. Go read a book or get cancer

>>92970286
>The only ones that do that are the ones that criticize BvS as the worst thing ever. Every time you ask why, you get "It just is!"
>Here's a dozen reasons why it sucked
>Those don't count! That never happened! NOT MUH! That's not what that means! That's not an argument!
>The only ones that do that are the ones that criticize BvS as the worst thing ever. Every time you ask why, you get "It just is!"
>Here's why it sucked.
>That doesn't count! You have no argument!
Over and over again.

>>92974158
>https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TCik5tlh3m8

You know, some of these scenes are even more poorly edited than I recall them being.

I almost fucking laughed at how unnatural the conversation with the old black guy is, and how stupid his way of conveying that he was talking about Batman is.

>>92972710
>he reason he made it hard for Batman to get it is that Batman wouldnt suspect him
He didn't make it hard for Batman. Batman made it hard for himself.

He puts a tracking device on the shipment and then there's a huge unnecessary car chase, just for him to end up using the tracking device and stealing it off camera anyway.

He even shoots AT the tracking device he just stuck on the damn thing!

>>92974595
>He didn't kill him, nice headcanon tho.

Nigga he put him through a wall with enough force to shatter every bone in his body, he's dead. It doesn't matter what the director says later.

>He was trying to intimidate a violent vigilante, superman does that shit.

I'm sorry, but CONSIDER THIS MERCY, in the tone that he phrases it, is the most gestapo shit imaginable, and not in line with any interpretation of Superman save Injustice. Nor is the way he approaches the situation: he literally just lets everyone decide how to approach this for him, making no attempt to really talk to this guy like, y'know, Clark Kent would. The entire interaction is unnecessarily antagonistic and makes no sense, save as a mechanism to make Batman madder at Supes.

>>92974939
>>92975149
>they're bad because I said so!!!!

>>92974595
>Bullshit

Great argument dude.

>>92975309
Wow, >>92975127
fucking called it.

>>92974595
>He was trying to intimidate a violent vigilante, superman does that shit.
He also stops them.

If Batman was such a dangerous and violent vigilante why is he let go? Why isn't he tied up in some scrap metal and flown off to the police? The only reason for them to have a pissing match is to provoke an unnecessary fight that gets an additional contrived motivation later anyway.

>>92975309
I guess if you just ignore that entire list of reasons why these scenes are bad explicitly stated right there in those posts, then sure.

>>92975149

>Perry tells them what the headline is before they write the story

is this how clickbait is made?

>>92975369
see
>>92975127

>>92975342
We've had this thread three times a day for over a year. Even sub-primates have this much pattern recognition. Snyderfags go "there is no legitimate criticism", people give it because they can't NOT take the bait, Snyderfags go "That's not legitimate criticism. There is no legitimate criticism."
It
never
fucking
ends

>>92975409

>Snyderfags

let's be honest with ourselves, only Snyder himself would be this dedicated

>>92969798
I thought the plot, story and characters were completely preposterous. A lot of what could've been substance was sacrificed in favor of blunt symbolism.

>but film is a visual medium
No. If it were just a visual medium, it'd be a painting. Film is an audio/visual storytelling medium, and none of those elements should be considered more important than one another. In other words, visuals don't trump story and vice versa. All of these elements need to work together to aid one another. In the case of BvS, the symbolism just serves to make the whole production look self-important, like it's the first superhero movie ever made.

>>92972100
>That's like saying Suicide Squad is good because Harley is in it.

Harley is one of the main reasons why Suicide Squad is as bad as it is.

>>92975976
It's also the one thing most people say they enjoyed the most of out of the movie.

>>92975976
Wrong. Harley and Deadshot are the only saving graces of that piece of shit film.

>>92976001

And I can't imagine why. I don't recall ever hating a character in an action movie as much as her. She was the Jar Jar Binks of capeshit.

>>92974999
Hi, God. How are things up there?

>>92976109

That's exacy the opposite of what I felt like. I thought the onle decent characters were Captain Boomerang and Mexican Fire Guy. I hated Will Smith playing Deadshot as a generic Will Smith character and Margot Robbie doing her best *holds up spork* routine.

>>92976001
>the sweetcorn was the tastiest part of the turd

>>92970310
so i guess heath ledger's joker is a bad character as well?

>>92969798
it wasn't a good movie, it was an expensive disorder.

>>92969798
I loved it to be completely honest.

>>92969798
It's better than WW by far.
But plebs want generic movies.

>>92977711
You say this like BvS isn't generic either.

>>92969798
>Defending Prometheus

Holy fuck what is wrong with you? It was Lovecraft's Mountains of Madness written for the mentally retarded.

>>9297088
No that is comics Luther. Movie Luther was a snivley shit that wanted to continue his trauma by taking down another father figure. He was in no way cool enough and called enough to be trying to make a point about relgion