/co/ characters that started out as huge threats but degenerated

>>92908124
not that I'm complaining but One Piece is considered /co/ now? Plus isnt it more of a Japanese style to make big threats become jobbers? I mean in all things that is western comics big threats ussually stay big threats.

he was never considered strong by the actually strong. Why do you think he's just a captain guarding the entrance from the East Blue ie the weakest ocean of them all?

>>92908194
Because he mouthed off to superiors too much. This was actually stated.

>>92908124
Wolverine

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>>92908124
General Grievous.

>>92908194
think about it.

Smoker had a reputation for being a character Luffy could never defeat and always had to run away from. The same guy that could take on a Warlord and basically god (Enel) among other people.

Now look at him.

>>92908194
Anything with logia powers is pretty high tier by default quite frankly.

Galactus would be said to be a jobber, and they wouldn't be wrong, he's a big threat and all but when there's thirteen to a dozen of characters that can whoop him around the threat is kinda null.

>>92908274
blame Haki for that

>>92908274
He was never said to be able to take on Enel
Luffy got fucking lucky taking on Enel, as Enel is (usually) top tier

>>92908124
Superman

>>92908282
but that doesn't stop him from being a huge threat because there are other beings that exists.
Jobber means he's no longer a threat to a main cast and story.

>>92908321
Superman has to job or he can't be interesting.

>>92908306

>as Enel is (usually) top tier

Oda himself said that Enel wouldn't be worth a shit in the New World in and there are plenty of people that could stomp him even without Luffy being a hard-counter.

>>92908306
People keep saying this but since Haki is around and luffy said there were stronger guys on the blue sea than Enel.

>>92908369
>Oda himself said that Enel wouldn't be worth a shit in the New World
I recall hearing the opposite, that he'd be worth a whole fucking lot. But sure, there are more people that can beat him than there are fingers and toes to count, doesn't mean that he can't whoop them back. Logia is next to always high tier, and a high tier logia makes you a werewolf amongst wolves from the get go.

>>92908405

From the SBS:

http://onepiece.wikia.com/wiki/SBS_Volume_43

D: Question!! If God Enel were to descend to the Blue Sea, how much would his bounty be? Also, what would happen if he did that? Would he rule the Blue Sea? P.N. Gorozoro

O: I see. Interesting question. Knowing how tricky he would be to beat, I'd imagine he could reach as much as Beli500,000,000. Luffy was lucky to be rubber. But like Luffy said, there all sorts of even crazier guys down on the Blue Sea. Enel would NOT rule it.

He said he "might" reach 500 mil, and we already have bounties far surpassing that after the timeskip.

>>92908271

We need a general thread for that guy

>>92908360
this
supes had the issue of being god and nothing could really beat him but a rock and other radiation.

>>92908271
ok there is one.

>>92908405
>>92908369
Oda just said that Enel wouldn't conquer the seas. He'd be a pretty big deal, just not the biggest deal like he was in Skypeia.

It's interesting, Logia is basically god mode and hugely powerful, but the really dangerous people in OP mostly have another type DF or none at all, with the exception of Blackbeard. I guess most logia users become to reliant on their powers and then don't improve themselves as fast as others

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>>92908271
How did this guy go from a monster swordsman that could take on like five Jedi at once to always losing his hand and pulling a gun from his sleeve?

>>92908485
Oda said he'd be trickey, I would put him among the worst generation tier.

>>92908421
I could make one.

>>92908420
>wanted price indicates power levels
top lel

>>92908494
pretty much, or they are that much harder to employ Haki with, maybe that's how Ace died, Akainu used Haki lava to punch a hole in ace. That would make more sense than fire logia just stopped working because of Lava.

>>92908511
Even among the Logia class, Enel's fruit is known as one of the "invincible" devil fruit powers.

You have to really know what you're doing to be able to fuck with him.

>>92908529

>hurr bounties are meaningless

Stop with this. Bounties may not be a direct representation of power all the time so you have people like Buggy and Usopp who get slapped with high bounties not because of their individual strength but because of their charisma and followers. Or people like Robin who are wanted because of their ability to read the Poneglyphs. But strong people clearly tend to have higher bounties in pretty much every other case. They're based on how much of a threat a person is to the WG and general public whether it be because of their own personal power or because of knowledge they have or forces they control.

If they consider a guy that can literally destroy entire islands to only be worth 500 mil then clearly they feel they could handle him easily. It's not like Enel was a master genius or anything and he doesn't have any knowledge that would be detrimental to the world order or the WG's image. His bounty would be based purely on his power level, and being a Logia wouldn't even mean shit since everyone worth a damn knows Haki these days. He doesn't even have the strongest Kenbunshoku Haki, anymore and probably doesn't even have CoA Haki either, meaning he'd be fucked against any Admiral.

>>92908543
Ace made himself solid, stopped using his powers in order to protect

>>92908500
the cartoon isn't canon

>>92908589

Or just punch him with CoA Haki.

I guess the only roadblock would be getting close to him since he can nuke people from far away using his Haki, but in close range what is he going to do against someone with Haki? It's not like his speed or hand-to-hand combat is especially impressive. Pre-Gear, Pre-Haki Luffy was handling him like a ragdoll. He'd probably go down hard to even a non-Logia like Lucci once they got close.

>>92908693
>idiots now think that Haki automatically makes you stronger than someone without it

I want speed readers to leave.

>>92908589
But thats the thing, there are tons of people like that in the new world. Remember there is an island that rains lighting?

>>92908671
that does make more sense.

>>92908543
>>92908494

Nah. Logia are still OP as fuck if the user isn't a moron. They said that there are basically two kind of people with Logia. You have those that get one and assume they're invincible because they haven't ran into anyone that knows their weakness or can use Haki before. And then there are those that actually know what the fuck they're doing and how to deal with Haki.

Crocodile, the Admirals, and Smoker were all able to survive Haki-imbued attacks because Logia can still make themselves intangible at will to dodge things even if their opponent is using Haki. Crocodile and Akainu both got their heads cut off by people using Haki and just reformed themselves safely.

>>92908714
>>92908714
>But thats the thing, there are tons of people like that in the new world.

You mean like the Sui Sui fruit?

>>92908711
no one said that, they were pointing out that Enel wouldnt be as invincible as he was on sky island.

>>92908740
what weighs more a kilogram of steel or a kilogram of feathas?
that's right steel because steel weighs more.

>>92908711

That wasn't the point at all. The point was that in close combat Enel isn't anything special and would only have his Logia's intangibility to fall back on. There are multiple people who are shown to be faster and better than him at close combat, and without the "haha you can't hurt me" perk he has nothing else to fall back on. His only chance would be nuking people from far away like he used to do in Skypeia, but that's not going to do shit against another Logia. Even Raigo could only be used by being channeled through Maxim. He'd get fucked by someone like Kizaru, or hell even Marco.

>>92908744
He actually would have some degree of invulnerability. Do people forget that Enel had a flying warship that could destroy entire islands?

Like, what could they do even do about that. If he decided to just blow up Whole Cake Island for example, it's not like Big Mom could fly up to him.

>>92908793
what does a warship have to do with his invincibility? remember there are people who can float, like Carrot or sky walk like sanji. CP has a whole group of people who can jump on air.

>>92908793

Raigo took a fair amount of prep time and I'm pretty sure they'd notice if a giant flying ship suddenly appeared in the sky charging lightning. Even if he managed to do a sneak attack and take one island down, that would certainly put him on the Government's radar and they'd have someone like Fujitora meteor the ship before it could do it again.

>>92908819
>>92908793
oh yeah and we just found out about Germa 99 who has flight capabilities.

Slade
The Thing

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People doubting Enel will just have to wait some years before he makes his inevitable badass return.

Oda doesn't forget what he writes and there's a lot unexplained about Enel's cover story.

>>92908887
No one is putting Enel in the jobber corner, but no is putting him in the yonkai level either. People are saying he wouldn't reck shop as much as people think, but he would put up a good fight.

Rusev
Undertaker

>>92908793

Zeus has been shown to be able to carry people. They also said that Big Mom is capable of destroying entire islands with Prometheus and Zeus. Considering what we've seen of her so far so would probably be able to tank Enel's island buster, then fly up there on Zeus and slap his shit.

>>92908887

>oda himself says there are many people that would be stronger than enel if he came to earth and he would not rule it at all
>enel is a god. y-you'll see...

I like Enel, but I don't understand why people overrate him so much.

>>92908921
after destroying half of the giant village and killing the an elder leader of the giants at the age of 5. Now fully grown and has A Sun and Lightning cloud that could destroy an entire island. Holy shit, bigMom is fucking scary.

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>>92908124
Why do most manga villains always have to 1-up, the last villain?

Is luffy in a video game? He need to fight all bosses in order to be king of the pirates?

>>92908942
He was a really cool character inappropriately introduced in a shitty arc and when power levels were very different in a very different time for a story.

By different, I mean how Crocodile got whipped by Luffy comically spitting water at him but could later shittalk and duel Doflamingo, a guy who was so powerful the writing itself had to be twisted to have him beaten.

>>92908360
>>92908426
>shit casuals say

>>92908981

>Doflamingo, a guy who was so powerful the writing itself had to be twisted to have him beaten

I felt kind of bad for Doffy. Literally everything that could go wrong did go wrong for him. And not because he got cocky or made mistakes or anything, but the writing was simply against him just so the good guys could win.

>>92908963
japanese shonen manga is built like a video game.

>>92908981
>He was a really cool character inappropriately introduced in a shitty arc
says you Enel fag

>>92908963

The Pirate King is straight out considered the strongest pirate at the time on top of having One Piece. There are multiple people vying for the title. How else are they supposed to decide who's the stronger without beating the shit out of each other?

>>92908996
casual to supes?
yeah I am, I know about his recent shit and the addition of more superman powerful characters but before looking before he was just absurdly powerful. He shot rainbows for christ sake.

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>>92908271
>>92908440
Tried making a General Grievous thread, but it died pretty quickly.
Welp, I tried.

>>92908998
he was too strong for his own good and I get the feeling Oda realized that somewhere during his outrageously long fight.

Like when Luffy threw him into the mountain, you'd think that was the end, but then he just smiles, fully establishes a new power level to DFs, and has to be punched into the center of the earth to finally be beaten.

And not long after, he's still alive somehow...

>>92909055
don't be too hard on yourself, we stuck in this jobbers thread with disagreement on Enel. You were fighting an up hill battle.

>>92908644
What, who has the strongest observation haki? I'm pretty sure Enel's covers the largest area.

>>92909067
Being defeated is just as bad as dying in one piece terms. This is what Oda said, he makes dying a permanent thing for the exceptions of zombies and Brooke.

>>92909077
His was pretty crazy, but gold Rodgers was way better he could hear the sea kings speak.

>>92909077

One of Big Mom's children can use their Haki to literally see into the future. Though it seems to have the weakness so far in that if too much shit happens at the same exact time it doesn't work fully because it can't keep up with rapid changes. But one-on-one he's basically Psycho Mantis.

>>92909104
that and he can't stop shit from happening every time.

>>92909144

I mean to be fair, he is just one person. He saw what they were planning before it happened and tried to warn Big Mom, but then like 50 things happened at the same time and you can only do so much when you're one guy.

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>Dragon ball Goku lost against strong humans on more than one occasion
>Raditz nearly beat the Z fighters single handily
>Vegeta & Nappa are 10 times stronger than him
>Freeza is hundreds of times stronger than them
>Cell is thousands of times stronger than him
>Buu is hundreds of thousands of times stronger than him
>Goku is almost on par with actual gods now

Is Dragon Ball the worst offender of power scaling?

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The power level disparity between pre and post-timeskip is one of OP's biggest flaws.

Remember when people thought pic related was the biggest badass? He looks like a faggot now.

>>92909176
Timeskip almost seemed like the beginning of the end of OP, most arks haven't been too good and the characters have even less time to show of now, so they are flanderised. At least the current ark is great
Has a timeskip ever worked out great? I can't think of any instance

>>92909176

Nigga got a promotion and is now working for an even more super secret section. He probably got stronger over the timeskip as well.

And I don't see how he looks like a faggot even taking the current power-levels into mind. He was one of the few people to go toe to toe with a fully serious, pissed off Luffy without any real gimmicks or fancy tricks. They just slugged it out for the most part. There hasn't been another Zoan user on his level yet either not counting Mystic shit like Marco.

>>92909165
well yeah it's almost like they invented it.

>>92909204
That one punk island, the one they visited after fish man island. That was awesome.

>>92909210
promoted for losing to a pirate, that seems ass backwards but it's one piece, ass backwards could be a devil fruit power.

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>>92909165
>dragonball

>>92909293
so what's wrong with 17 getting stronger?

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>>92909293

>>92909337
they say meditation is key for good training.

>>92909044
You get that from a watchmojo list?
Try reading a comic

>>92909372
>superman is the only comic
now who is being the casual.

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>>92909372
you could have at least googled it you lazy fuck

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If the writers were fair and didn't have a hate boner for either characters, could Batman feasibly ever defeat Superman

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>>92909408
and dis

>>92909415
sure, I mean batman would exploit superman's weakness like a mother fucker.

>>92909415
assuming they didnt write superman like a retard? No.

>in a lot of stories, superman actually gives batman kryptonite in order to stop him
>he's perfectly aware that he's weak to kryptonite
>batman somehow still manages to sneak it up to him and shove it down his throat
Everything in superman's powerset just says there's no way batman should even be able to touch supes and yet here we are, superman is down on the ground while batman is kissing his green glowing rock

>>92908124
That's a fairly common trope although I can only think of a couple off the top of my head:

>Inferno from Beast Wars
>Hak Fu from Jackie Chan's adventures

Usually they're the most threatening new character, then they become comic relief in all subsequent appearances because their toughness and seriousness makes them fodder for jokes.

>>92909415
Yes because writers being fair means writers honestly writing each character and Superman would never nuke Batman from orbit with heat vision just like Batman would never kill Superman outright and so it comes down to Superman trying to use just enough power to bring Batman to heel while Batman tries to do the same to Superman.

>>92909337
Tien is awesome

>>92909462
in the end that is where they belong

>>92909485
this

Is there a story where Superman or a Superman expy just decided "fuck it" and used their powers to have the world (if not universe itself) at their mercy?

And the logical conclusion of almost no one being able to stop their reign of terror coming to fruition?

>>92908124
Smoker was more of a preview of things to come once the Straw Hats get to the Grand Line. A place where Devil Fruit Users are a lot more common, remember that Buggy, Smoker and eventually Alvida where the only Devil Fruit user Luffy encounter in the East Blue.

>>92909514
Injustice

>>92909485
>so it comes down to Superman trying to use just enough power to bring Batman to heel
except writers always make superman lose his powers before batman even pulls out the kryptonite
>bruce, i can see you have a lead-lined box in your belt
>i can hear your heartbeat getting faster, bruce. dont even think about putting your hand in there
>damn it bruce. i told you not to do it. good thing i stopped you from opening that pocket with my superspeed and ice breath
>here's a walkie talkie, lets talk this over when you thaw out. i'll just be hovering 10 miles above you in the meantime

>>92909514
I mean, would Red Son count as this? He didn't conquer anyone forcefully, but he pretty much ruled almost the entire world and ran it himself personally. No one could stop him, even, but his own guilt and decision to step away from it all.

>>92909210
wasn't their a cover story about cp9 escaping the government?

>>92909676
we sure about that any more? I mean with the flash being over powered, the spectre even though he wouldn't stop supes so never mind him, even villians like lex?

>>92909729
Well, there's some theories going on like they're now a part of CP9 or Lucci is an Underworld broker now (going by a silhouette that looked similar to him that showed up during the Punk Hazard arc, where some Underworld brokers were being treated to a show of what was basically a WMD).

>>92909753
The Flash didn't appear in Red Son? Neither did the Spectre, for that matter. I'm just saying, it's a story where nobody could do fuck all against Superman.

Lex was the one who "defeated" Superman by showing him the error of his ways (hence Superman's aforementioned decision to "step away").

>>92909754
uh, what? Lucci is now part of CP0 after negotiating with the WG about Spandam's lies.

>>92909729

Yeah. They had to go on the run because Spandam used them as a scapegoat and blamed Enies Lobby on them. In the cover story they went around doing street performances to raise money to treat Lucci's injuries, but after he wakes up he beats up a pirate crew they come across and the townspeople are horrified.

After the timeskip Lucci and Spandam got recruited into CP0 and Spandam is actually Lucci's subordinate now. It's implied Kaku is in CP0 to. We don't actually see him, but someone Lucci is talking to has the same speech pattern as him. I actually hope the other members show up in the main story again too. They were a fun group.

>>92909772
Just looked it up. I thought I may have missed or forgotten it, but it seems like it was revealed in a One Piece film. I don't really watch the films, anon.

The wiki also says that he appeared in the Dressrosa arc, so one of those masked CP0 agents was him, then.

>>92909771
I didn't read red son so, I cant be too sure. All in all when supes becomes a villian it's the most interesting plot line.
I bet you that WB will be the first to introduce a multiverse plot line in comic book movies, since Power Girl is such a loved character and Supes verses Supes is always awesome.

>>92909772
>>92909797
Wait, never mind. Looked up the chapter. Him and Spandam definitely did appear.

>>92908963
Yes, they are kinda writtne like this. Instead of sometimes having to use a tactic or some trick or technique it more often biold down to "get your ass handed first then you power up and beat him after all" repeat.

Why does everybody always have to make it about power levels? If that was 'the One Piece way' then Robin, New World Chopper, and Brook would be top tier. But it's not, and has never been, about that. Luffy is just a guy that can figure out how to beat anyone (call it stupid-genuis, plot armor, heart) no matter how strong they are, at least eventually.

>>92909337
Super is trash.

>>92909625
Heard it all in Superman's voice. I have been on here too long...

>>92908274
Luffy was completely overwhelmed by Crocodile and had to get a bunch of lucky assists to defeat. Plus creative fighting to counter Croco's Logia powers without haki.

Luffy lucked out against Enel because he hard countered his fruit. It's like an high level Electric-type pokemon attacking a low-level Ground-type pokemon. One has a higher level, but can do absolutely no damage to opponent with his strongest attacks.

>>92908124
>/co/ characters
nice bait

>>92908124
>Smoker
>huge threat
>ever
His very first appearance is just to show off how badass Dragon was for chrissake.

>>92908124
Every supervillan ever

>>92909418
WWTL?

>>92911071
That really was the greatest and most unexpected moment in OP, Enel's reaction was amazing. Never would have thought that from such a smug asshole

>>92908124
>Pick anime example, asking for similar /co/ exemples
> Insteed /co/ turns into /a/

everytime. granted this is more a /a/ trope.
for /co/ i think pic related. Competent fighter season 1, jobber later

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>>92912569

Forgot pic..

>>92912586
Jackie Chan Adventures loved this trope, I think. Hak Foo was mentioned earlier, Tohru was also subject to it.

smooker as not even a vice admiral in fucking loguetown, not even grand line

>>92908124
Isn't that what a good jobber is? There's no point of showing them getting beaten if the reader doesn't think they're strong. It's why Yamcha stopped fighting early on, if they showed him getting beaten it would be a wasted fight. The reader would be like: "Okay, he beat Yamcha. So can everyone else."

>>92908420
>He said he "might" reach 500 mil, and we already have bounties far surpassing that after the timeskip
Isn't that Luffy and Law's current bounty?

The thing with Enel is that even with Haki he would be a pain in the ass to deal with. At least Luffy was completely immune to his lightning blasts, which only left him with finding way to counter his Observation. A Haki user would still need to block each blast, which would require him to be constantly vigilant.

>>92908274
Essentially, Smoker is Luffy as Garp was to Roger in the previous generation. They're enemies with a begrudging respect for one another.

>>92915159
So that would make Blackbeard the Whitebeard to Luffy's Rodger?