>Mexico is beating the US in comedy and animation >Japan

>Why did we fall so far behind?

Tumblr. Not even memeing. Once literal tumblr artists were hired onto tv shows it was the final nail in the coffin.

>Why did we fall so far behind?
Because we got Netflix and it killed the TV animation industry. Now the only ones capable of saving it is them.

We're fucking killing it in the live-action department, though.

>>92789593
Oh please, We Bare Bears is made by a guy who spent like, seven years at Pixar and it's still bland and unfunny as fuck. Meanwhile, Star Vs. is made by someone who virtually has no experience in the industry and is one of the better cartoons around. Doesn't seem to matter what the hell your experience is in this industry.

>>92789636
>and is one of the better cartoons around.

Which says a lot about the current state of animation here

>>92789636
>seven years at Pixar and it's still bland and unfunny as fuck
It makes sense. Pixar is bland and unfunny as fuck.

>>92789636
Rick and Morty beats Star in every department

>>92789678
Pretty sure he was talking about kids shows

>>92789711
Kids don't watch Star

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>>92789489

Is this the new Mystery Skulls?
You know, flavor of the month then a year(maybe even months) from now no one will care?

>>92789489
Well, it's not really FAR, isn't it?

>>92789678
Adult shows in general have the potential to beat kids shows. That's kind of unfair. It's like how Breaking Bad is always going to be better than even the best kids movie/show, no matter how many mature themes the kids product tries to cram in. They're not limited by anything, so it doesn't hold back their story.

There are only a few times where their limitations in storytelling due to censorship is actually a plus. Toy Story 3 comes to mind. Lego Movie is another. Those would not have benefited from more mature themes or situations.

>>92789655
We've never had a good TV era. TV started with Hannah Barbara shit like the Flintstones and spiraled into more trash like Jem & the Holograms and He-Man since then. The closest we got was the 90's when studios were actually willing to spend $500k+ per episode on kids shows, like Ducktales, Invader ZIM, Avatar, B:TAS etc. Animation also had a ton more variety then, was slowly becoming more creator driven, and more networks were open to having their own animation studios. Look at all the shit MTV made in just its very short lifespan.

Now a lot studios have closed and three networks dominate the industry more than ever and they've been consistently cutting/limiting budgets since then. And since that monopoly has happened, it's almost impossible to be "creator driven". We'll never have another scenario where someone like Danny Antonucci can make demands on how he wants Ed, Edd, n Eddy to be made and that he wants his studio to be the one to produce it. They would reject him almost instantly.

TV by nature is suppose to be just cheaper, shorter films. And animation is ten times more work to make than live-action. The two are basically opposites and the fact that some people have even managed to make it work on short budgets is almost a miracle.

>>92789593

and canadians, don't forget the canadians.

America blows both of them out of the water when we make cgi movies

So I don't see a problem

>>92789489
We fell to a shit culture that favored moral action over physical action. Every episode has to have some lesson, some educational value, because children can't come to moral conclusions on their own. No one wants to make a cartoon just for the sake of animation or stoytelling because who would watch that? No one likes those things, scrap them. Japan and Mexico don't fall to these sort of things.

>>92790074
>Avatar
>Invader ZIM
>90s
Maybe my reading comprehension is shit, but what?

>>92790413
>No one wants to make a cartoon just for the sake of animation or stoytelling because who would watch that?

Mickey Mouse shorts
Pickle and Peanut
Billy Dilley
Clarence
Magiswords
Loud House
Uncle Grandpa
Two More Eggs
Teen Titans Go!
Bunnicula
You're Retarded

Just because Steven Universe and Adventure Time try to have morals every episode doesn't mean that's the entire state of animation. You act like this era is somehow worse than "Sonic Sez".

>>92790074
>We've never had a good TV era

Then you know nothing of TV animation

Stop posting

>>92790641
More than half of those shows have some moral lesson. Especially fucking the Loud House.

>>92790614
I mispoke, I thought ZIM was in 1999, I didn't realize it was made so late in the game. Avatar I know was only made in response to Harry Potter after the 90's but didn't realize it was basically mid 2000's. I had thought it was around the time the first movie came out.

I know that Spongebob was considered low-budget back in the day compared to its competition and that it had a budget of $300k per episode and that has now become the standard for most animated shows, according to CH Greenblatt.

>>92790687
Morals ARE part of "storytelling" you idiot. It's the fucking crux of the Hero's Journey. 99% of shit made today has a "moral" to it, including live-action and indie work. Very rarely is it just random shit happening on a screen with no rhyme or reason. Sorry we're not living in the animated theatrical age anymore where they only have 5 minutes to make people laugh, but you know, even then, Tom or Jerry would sometimes learn a lesson about themselves in the end.

>>92790647
60's - 80's are notorious for being shit, what are you talking about?

>>92790833
>Morals ARE part of "storytelling" you idiot.

t. Baby who only watches cartoons

>>92790981
>who only watches cartoons
>wheredoyouthinkweare.jpg

Please name me some non-highly-experimental films that don't include a moral of some kind. And yes, even a tragedy = a moral. It's a cautionary tale for the audience.

>>92789678
And the Venture Bros beats Rick and Morty in every department, what's your point?

>>92791093
Super Milk Chan

>>92791151
No it doesn't

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>>92791591
Moral: It's okay to take a break from your responsibilities and have a little fun.

And also, anime. And also, trying to name things that are basically on the same level as Aqua Teen doesn't make you right. The majority of shit has a moral that the character learns, this isn't a modern day era phenomenon, it's not due to Tumblrinas, and it's not because of some weird conspiracy that kids now-a-days are somehow more pampered than the kids in your days.

You seem to forget there's a slew of cartoons back in the day that went as far as being licensed by Hallmark to be as inoffensive as possible.

>>92792160
If Milk had a moral that's certainly not it because that's the crux of every episode

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>>92789489
>>Japan is beating the US in storytelling and action series
>What happened to American animation?

You can thank Cartoon network for that in part. They are the ones who basically started the theme of killing action cartoons and replacing them with "lulz random" humor to try and compete with the internet. They even proudly admit to this.

>>92792465
>They even proudly admit to this.
Source?

>>92789489
Because the US is to busy pushing liberal agendas in there cartoons than actually telling a decent story.

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>>92789678

>My subjective opinion is fact.

>>92789489
>American animation
We haven't even animated our own shows since like the 80s

>>92789489
Tumblr, Cartoon Network's sudden decline, the lack of any talent these days

People have said many reasons. And it's an unhealthy mix of many factors. Budgets are rather irreverent for the most part as TV projects (both animation & live action are usually much cheaper than films are. And I've seen some low-budget shows that look decent and high budget stuff that look like trash (and vice-versa).

>>92794965
Who does?

>>92795200
Korea and Canada

>>92789489

Jesus, the Villainous shorts are cute, but I didn't laugh at all during them, just enjoyed them. I don't know where this idea they're hilarious comes from.

Even if they were, it's a lot easier to write six 60 second shorts than an actual show, get asked to scrape together six minutes of funny material and even for something like Zombie Simpsons, you can skim the best off a few eps and get that.

This "this one minute bumper short with a few sight gags is putting all other animation to shame, all other cartoons BTFO!!!" meme needs to die.

>>92789489
>Mexico comedy better than USA
Nah, both are really shitty actually

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>>92789489
>Japan is beating the US in storytelling and action series

I'll grant you action but Japan is fucking garbage at storytelling.

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>There no such thing as the perfect carto-

>>92789489
Tumblr along with the fact cartoons as seen as kid-only (outside of sitcom family guy shit).

Japan takes its animation industry far more seriously and realizes it can be enjoyed by all ages.

>>92802396
Name a cartoon as good as Erased?

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>>92802476
Pretty much this.

>>92789774
As long as no new content comes around, yeah.

>>92802396
>Japan is fucking garbage at storytelling.
Guess how I can tell you have barely watched anything from Japan.

>>92802476
>tumblr
Nope, societal decay is what done it. First, our moral systems were eroded, then came sexual impurity, casual drug use, and within time, all that we once held dear was bastardized. The failure of the Amwrican animation industry was not a singular event, but rather a slow fade from amazing, to dogshit. This merely shows that America is within its death throes; that we reside within a tomb. Perhaps things could change in time, but it seems unlikely at this point.

>>92802396
>*watches Steven Universe*

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>>92802848
>incest
>depravity
>perversion
>tentacles
>nonsensical laws
>rushed stories

Honestly, how can we fix the american animation industry?

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>>92802396
> Japan is fucking garbage at storytelling.

Embarassing.

>>92802983
>>tentacles

Not him but does your knowledge of anime come from shit like Family Guy and Robot Chicken?

>>92803071
Don't reply to the bait.

>>92803050
American animation can only be fixed by changing American animators

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>>92789489
Villainous is just a rehash of Evil Con Carne, that's just a few minutes long and is only held afloat online by Waifufags/Fugoshits. It's only popular because of the porn. I have no idea why you think it's the pinnacle of modern animation when it's the exact thing we had on Cartoon Network and Nickelodeon years ago.

>What happened to American animation?
It's for children and always has been. You just grew up and now you're not "With It" anymore. Also, people have tried to make mature animation, and the end result is that it does poorly in the ratings/box office department and most major studios will not touch a critical failure due to not them not wanting to fucki up their profit margins.

>Why did we fall so far behind?
Large media companies are too afraid of failure and don't try to be risk takers anymore because of financial risk.

>Japan is beating the US in storytelling and action series
You watch some regular Japanese shows, they're shit.

>>92803154
>Villainous is just a rehash of Evil Con Carne
That's great, Evil Con Carne was based.

>>92803050
Start focusing on writers.
Seems like most cartoonist these days are animators/artist first and then just go to class on how to writer.

We need to start letting writers do shit.

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>>92803071
Nah, it comes straight from the sauce, m8

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>Villanous won't get picked up for a series
>Legend Quest won't be renewed for a second season
>Mexican animation won't cross over again
You know it's going to happen.

>>92803121
>>92803212
My question is more focused on a consumer point of view.
Is there anything the viewer can do to fix the industry? I know about expending shekels on your favorite shows, but it's hard to do it when every show is fucking trash.

>>92803419
No
Because their target is kids and kids eat it all up.
There just simply aren't enough people in the older crowd with standards to make companies want to invest in better stuff.

>>92803108
Did I trigger the weeb? Did I rape your little waifu with my facts?

>"Uguu~ Onee-chan, this foreigner is soo biguu~"

>>92789489
Because the US has a culture of thinking cartoons are for children, or are for dumb adults who like crude "humor". Most people don't view animation as the medium it should be viewed as, which ideally allows for any genre to be explored and experimented with.

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>>92789489
action cartoons died

>>92803050
Start treating animation as a medium, instead of writing it off as a genre for two groups of people. Focus more on good writing and respect for the craft off animation.

>>92789489
In terms of animation, blame the art schools and the rise of CalArts. I remember reading an excerpt from a former Disney animator visiting an art college, and was amazed that they couldnt draw a simple cartoon walking animation ala classic Disney or Hannah Barbara. Not to mention CalArts has been steadily gentrifying animation styles and designs.
In terms of storytelling, blame the networks who prioritize the ability to market merchandise for said show over having a great story for a show, ie Symbiotic Titans.

It certainly doesnt help that animation in America is solely viewed as for either children entertainment or for adult comedies.

>>92802542
Out of all those listened, star vs was the only okay one.

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>>92802542
>Danganronpa 3
>Good

>>92802542
Top right three are shit
bottom right three are good
Can't speak for the left

>>92789489
>Japan is beating the US in storytelling
Literally all purebred (Japan only) animes I've seen either drag the story for WAY too long, and/or end quite stupidly. Bonus points if show itself it otherwordly.

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>>92789636
>Star Vs. is one of the better cartoons around

>>92790227
its more because Canadian cartoons stopped getting the same amount of funding they used to so they had to cheap out and go to flash and it was all down hill from there.
TFW we will never get another cybersix or a kids show with a good of an ost as george shrinks ever again

>>92807261
>>>/trash/

>>92789489
>Japan is beating the US in storytelling
no....no it isn't. Jap story telling ranges from mediocre to flat out horrifyingly bad with the good outliers mostly only being good because they subvert or deconstruct the rest of the river of shit.

>>92807261
>Loudfag

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>>92807609
Not really i just don't have other reaction pics. Need to make some

>>92807561
So you never watched any anime except Nayruto and Dbz

It's flavor-of-the-month, just like Forever 12 was.

You'll forget it soon enough when Cartoon Network drops it.

>>92789489
>Mexico is beating the US in comedy and animation
Dude, it's a total 6 minutes of animation that was actually done in the US and only directed by a Mexican, as one myself I tell you: calm your tits.

>>92791976
And the metaphor is complete.

>>92808211

>a total 6 minutes of animation directed by a Mexican
was enough to beat US in comedy and animation

>>92808211
This is totally false

It was produced IN MEXICO by a 100% MEXICAN STUDIO

Why do people spread misinformation?

>>92808293
Comedy maybe, but only because it doesn't struggle with having to keep a joke interesting for more than 15 seconds. It's like praising a kid running a 30 meter dash for doing it in less time than the athlete who did the 300 meters. We could say that, maybe, Turiel could make a better long running show but until he actually does it we can't be certain
As for animation, nah, it was pretty standard, most cartoons that aren't SU have that level of quality at worst.
>>92808436
I'm only saying what the creator's twitter led me to believe.

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>>92808522
>I'm only saying what the creator's twitter led me to believe.

Might as well do research instead of making a fool of yourself

>Comedy maybe, but only because it doesn't struggle with having to keep a joke interesting for more than 15 seconds. It's like praising a kid running a 30 meter dash for doing it in less time than the athlete who did the 300 meters. We could say that, maybe, Turiel could make a better long running show but until he actually does it we can't be certain
As for animation, nah, it was pretty standard, most cartoons that aren't SU have that level of quality at worst.

CN had been pretty shitty so far, just look at their shitty reboots and you know that the company glory days are over, Villainous is like a breath of fresh air, the animation is pretty damn well specially if you compare it to garbage like Jorel's Brother.

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>>92789489
>Mexico is beating the US in comedy and animation
I'm sorry but I'm pretty sure Steven Universe is made in the US

>>92795200
Mexico, Canada and France.
Korea also animates it's own shit in addition to US and Japan's shit.

>>92789489
Split yourself in two, and move to Japan and Mexico.

>>92807261
Pedophiles go home

>>92803657
>LOL I OWNED U 1111!!!1!1!

Not an argument.

>>92808682
>Might as well do research
I recalled the author saying the show was made in the USA originally but I was wrong, he said it was made in English. It was a simple mistake.
>CN had been pretty shitty so far,
Well yeah but still most of the shows have decent animation; character design is another deal, yet you can name the ones who don't meet previously regarded standards in that department, just off the top of my head; star vs and guaranteed replies have better animation overall than Villanous while having also good character design, times more the amount of content and highly surpassing them in terms of scenery and composition.
Don't get me wrong, it's a good show, great maybe, but don't let hype and bandwagoning cloud your vision so easily, lest hiro make a /vl/ board next.

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>>92808787
>Mistaking Steven Universe for having good comedy and animation.

>>92789711
But anon, kids don't watch cartoons anymore. They just watch loud spastic youtubers play games.

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>>92791976
>Better writing
>Better characters and character development
>Better animation
>Humor isn't fart jokes and random phrases
Keep telling yourself that

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>>92789489

They've progressed and we've regressed, simple as that. In America more emphasis is put on render farmed computer/flash animation with broad appeal inoffensive content and storylines (essentially all of modern Disney). Whereas there are still people in France and Japan who still care to tell a story or are proud of the craft of innovative or traditional animation.

This is prevalent in comics as well. I was never a fan of manga but pic related is one of the best paced and most enjoyable stories I've read in a long time.

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>>92808787
No it's made in South Korea.

>>92808787
Well one thing Steven Universe doesn't have is a consistent art style.

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>>92789636
>Star Vs. is made by someone who virtually has no experience in the industry and is one of the better cartoons around.
>star vs
> one of the better cartoons around

>>92789636
I'm pretty sure Star vs. Creator worked on Wander over yonder and Craig said in a interview that he and lauren loved the show concept, so that probably helped

>>92803357

Wasn't legend quest already renewed?

Plus its a Netflix series. Unless it has an abnormally large budget, it'll get a second season. Netflix gives like all of their original shows at least 3 seasons.

>>92808052
Forever 12 wasn't even that popular, The amount of attention Villainous is getting is Steven Universe pilot tier.

>>92789636
>he likes star vs more than wbb
And this, my friends, is how one spots a plebian

>>92812488
>likes wbb
>doesn't know how to spell plebeian
Not even 4 /co/ is willing to talk about that shitshow. Pleb pls go

>>92789489
honestly america and europe should just implode and take every single person living inside to hell
Nothing good comes out of there anymore, just more drama, war and authoritarian ideologies.
You dont see that kind of shit from asia, africa or australia and to be fair you all want to die so much you never shut up over it

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They should just re-air ancient shows.

>So theres average, untalented Japanese high school boy
>And every girl in the universe wants to suck his cock
wow thats some amazing story telling right there.

>>92808787
If this is not bait, you are seriously deluded, compadre. SU's been shit since season 2 started and everyone knows it

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>>92813285
>Look at how ignorant I am, guys!

>>92813285
>I will talk about things I don't know about - the post.

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>>92813285

>>92789598
Ya gotta give it to live action American stuff. Doing great there guys, keep it up.

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>>92789636
(You) too

>>92815456
>gif

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>>92789489
But America is beating Mexico in representation of Latinos with even a little Amerindian ancestry (i.e. "brown people").

>>92802542

You can't compare anime to cartoons. In the west hardly any new cartoons get to air, meanwhile in Japan literally every season there are hundreds of anime airing and premiering. A lot of these being 12 episodes as well so they can afford to go balls to the wall with the animation. Or some are just plain bad since there are so many.

We don't have that luxury here, CN and others play it safe by sticking with the same stuff for years till it is time to retire them.

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>>92794228
/thread

>>92803062
Who ?

>>92803154
>You watch some regular Japanese shows, they're shit.
This^

>>92815683
>/thread
There is the real unpopular opinion.

>>92789489
But Villainous is animated in America...

>>92789489
What about the French?

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>>92789636
>Star Vs. is one of the better cartoons around.

>>92790074
>trash
>Jem & the Holograms
DELET THIS

started using the animation medium as a tool to push agendas instead of an entertainment/artistic medium .
Basically,they dont want to have fun creating a fun show or pursue artistic beauty,they just want to tell you to think like they think,because they are better than you

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>>92816266
>Star Vs. is not one of the better cartoons around.

>>92808787
I used to watch SU and it stopped having decent animation after episode 10,also the comedy was never good

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>>92807718

>>92789489
Too much Capeshit and SJW pandering.

>>92803905
Tron was boring af

>>92789489
>thinking America was ever good to begin with

>>92790647
>>92816336
Delete yourself, for you are spam

>>92817803
capeshit is nearly nonexistent in animation tho

>>92803905
Tron was killed when Disney purchased Star Wars. The company realized that it didn't have to make anything good anymore because SW fans will buy anything, so long as it has the "Star Wars" tramp stamp on it. Thus, Tron: Uprising was killed.

The show was replaced with the mediocre SW show called Star Wars Rebels, where that show has poor graphics, pisspoor/very predictable writing and is one of the most boring things you'd ever see.

>>92820117
What

>>92789489
>Japan's animation industry beating anything
The Anime industry is in dire straits thanks to its competitive corporate nature. Animators in Japan have always been paid by frame. This was fine between the 70s and the turn of the century when it was booming because a large studio might pump out two 24-episode series a season with decently-sized teams, making all those "classic" series that everyone enjoys. It turns out pumping out 3-4 series of 12 episodes each per studio to formulas that have been known to sell well is more profitable than innovating and making a high quality series. Since there is a lot of animation work, corporates can pay less per frame, making animators scrabble to get more work from them and it works because good luck paying rent in Tokyo (where most of the studios are) on what can easily average out yearly to be less than the minimum wage in Japan.

While those action series are popular and will sell well, they have been seeing a noticeable dip in animation quality that will soon be a downward slide as more animators quit the industry to find work doing something a bit more stable and the remaining animators have to scrabble to pump out as many frames as possible to pay their way and meet client deadlines.

>>92821868
>Disney barely even has to experiment now since they own Marvel & Star Wars
I genuinely liked Tron more than both, it was always more interesting to me

>>92789489
So we need a mix of netflix and patreon for western animation?

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>>92823625
Tron, both the movies, video game and the show were a lot of fun and had an interesting atmosphere and setting.

It deserved better than being shelved and gathering dust for the rest of its life. I hope Disney lets go of the I.P., but they won't be that magnanimous to other companies and will let it rot in their care until the heat death of the universe.