Do you think she loved Rapunzel (not just her hair) even a little,

if she loved rapunzel even a minute amount, she sure as hell didnt show it
between purposefully trapping her in a tower, emotionally manipulating her, and chaining her up when she started to get thoughts of her own, she sure didnt care much for her well being

any form of affection she had for rapunzel is the same one we develop for our favorite tools

>>92759883
>something we want to believe
The character designers didn't make her evil looking enough and those big sad eyes suckered us in.

MILF
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>>92759883

Yes, often, and innappropriately. It was a real surprise to her birth mom when she gave her a french kiss as a greeting. More so when she woke to Rapunzel eating her out the first morning.

>>92759883
>>92759906
Rapunzel clearly loves her at the beginning of the movie up until she gets out of the tower. If she was 100% cruel i don't think Rapunzel would've hugged her in this song like that.


I think she did grow to love Rapunzel but the hair was always the priority.

Ironically if she had let her grow up with a normal life and just gave her boundaries around the tower instead, she probably would've never lost that magic hair and probably would've never given a shit about the lights on her birthday. Gothel could've even spun a story to explain them if she hadn't been so paranoid about her leaving.

>>92759971
>I think she did grow to love Rapunzel but the hair was always the priority.
She was going to make a three day trip for some present.

To a degree.
Maybe just to the refreshed rather have a young girl be a human being rather than an animal, only so far that it could be helped

>>92759883
Like an abusive husband loves his wife.

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>>92759963
stop this, it's not hot

>>92759939
There's that and it's part of the whole "mother" thing. She's not a good mother given she's clearly selfish, manipulative, downputting, and overbearing, but not unsympathetic if you feel she did love in her own way. She did raise Rapunzel as her daughter and didn't treat her as terribly as an evil stepmother is expected to.

So yeah, they got us good.

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If love is meant to be an emotion of any real significance, more than maybe the amount of fondness you have for your favorite pair of shoes, then no

I liked an anon's interpretation that Rapunzel represented to Gothel everything she coveted: to be young, beautiful, innocent, sweet, loving, pure and uncorrupted by the outside world. Additionally she is fighting against her own fears of aging, death, etc. The mother-daughter thing is a fantasy she created for her own sake. It's a narcissistic love but something.

Of course it's a Disney movie so this is probably thinking too deeply.

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>>92760043
You're wrong about that.

Continue, anon.

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>>92760643

Well, her real mom obviously tried to keep it quiet so as not to shame her daughter as she got used to being a princess, and humored her and allowed her to continue with her rather unorthadox oral waking technique, but she also put her foot down and insisted Repunzel tell her everything that she and Mother Gothal ever did and even demonstrate what she had been taught. Purely so she could later instruct her on what was inproper. When Rapunzel was mentally prepared for it of course, which might be many years.

>>92759883
It's a twisted love. One that falls well short of the standard that people aspire to in most cultures, but a kind of love that you can observe in others nonetheless.

>>92759883
I'd like to think she did, even if she was still too selfish and still let her greed control her actions. I mean, she could've been a dick to her, rather than actually worrying about Rapunzel's concerns.

I'd like to think she did, because this movie felt way to close to my relationship with my own mother. Seriously, I get uncomfortable watching the movie because of that.

>>92759883
I don't think so. She treated Rapunzel well so she wouldn't be tempted to leave, but then she just terrifies and insults Rapunzel when she asks to leave. I think its only about the hair honestly. Even at the end of this song, she is literally saying "I love you" to the hair, not Rapunzel.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fi8kYcl2Y38

If it is love, its the love between owner and pet. Not mother and daughter.

Any happiness Rapunzel had had to be on Gothels terms or it wasn't even considered.

>>92761044
>She treated Rapunzel well so she wouldn't be tempted to leave
She's her captor. Why didn't she just make it impossible for her to leave? If she wasn't getting off on this mother-daughter shtick, she was illogical and incompetent.

>>92761094
Well she chained her up at the end. Its probably because its a disney film and they can't really imply that someone had a child chained up in a dungeon so their capture could use their body.

>>92759987
>spends 2 days drinking with strangers and masturbating at her real house
>on the third day goes to the market for ingredients, then calls a cab to leave her out of earshot of the tower
>"My what a journey!"

>>92761075
This.

>>92759963
>>92760681
Rapunzel is not for lewd.

>>92759971

The issue with this is that the rest of the world would have known where the magic youth-restoring hair was, and if she tried keeping Punzel at a regular old house she'd soon have the armies of the world at her doorstep demanding pieces of the hair. She wanted to keep it for herself, but in a strange kind of way she was right: keeping Punzel isolated while she had the hair was the only way to stop the rest of the world from exploiting her. But since she knew the hair turns brown when you cut it, she could have cut it all off from the start and saved Punzel a life of isolated manic-depression. But she was too selfish.

In a way the movie is a lot about selfishness: Eugene's selfishness and Gothel's and how one of them overcomes it through love and the other refuses to and twists the idea of love into a tool to control Punzel with. It's a pretty fucked up movie.

>>92760986

I'm sorry anon. That sucks. Are you a grill? Did you get any weird dependancy or mommy issues from this? I need psychological perspective for a Punzel fic I'm writing

>>92761900
No, and probably no. Mostly I just didn't want to associate with her at all. Divorce, and parents (especially mother) badmouthing each other and blaming each other for everything. Quite unpleasant.

I mean, on one level I know she cares for me and took care of me and all that, and I do want to respect her for it. I feel like I do owe it to her, and do think that she deserves to have someone who cares about her. But on the other hand, listening to her (literally) blame any negative aspect of her life, my life, and even my personality on my father just gets grating. I prefer to just avoid conversations when possible, because I know what it will always be about.

>>92762074

Yeah, people like that are toxic. It's best to avoid them. One of the reasons I'm so impressed with Tangled is because it portrays Gothel's toxic behavior and then gives a step by step instruction on how to call out people like that on their bullshit.

>>92759883

She might have loved her in some weird twisted ass way as the movie showed that she thought of Rapunzel as the flower. Thought that kind of love probably applied more when Rapunzel was younger and probably less independent or driven.

>>92761075
I'd say more love between a parent and a child actor. She loves Rapunzel but she prioritized her use over her happiness and well being.

>>92759987

To be fair, she likely just gets her that shit to try and keep her quiet, if she gets Rapunzel things she likes occasionally and generally treats her well then ((hopefully)) Rapunzel would never want to leave, unfortunately Gothel didn't spin some story about the lights being for another purpose or something.

Might have helped if Gothel had let her roam around outside every once in a while too, just within range of the castle.

>>92761094

Easier to lure flies with honey than with vinegar, if she made Rapunzel WANT to stay it'd just be a lot less effort on her part in the long run.

Also she does need Rapunzel to sing for her, if Gothel had treated her like shit from the start she may have stopped singing for her unless she was under duress or something, which, again, is just way more trouble to have to do.

>>92762504
The hair reacted when Gothel sang just before she stole Rapunzel, so I doubt she needed Rapunzel for that.

>>92762563

Why make Rapunzel sing at all then? Maybe Gothel singing it only worked when she was a baby before she gained a proper consciousness of herself. Hell, the climax of the movie has Rapunzel telling Gothel that she wont sing for her unless she lets her save Eugene.

>>92762614
Who knows, maybe it works better/is more permanent when Rapunzel sings. I know she was meant to be a villain, but it's always kinda bugged me that Gothel never showed the slightest guilt that she kept Rapunzel locked up. I've always felt Rapunzel's real magic power was in her ability to win people over. Those she comes in contact with have their lives changed for the better, except Gothel.

I know it would've changed how the ending went, but I wish Gothel had shown some signs that she felt guilty about locking Rapunzel up.

But as the movie stands, Rapunzel was little more than a pet to her, and pets aren't allowed to leave.

>>92759883
She was waiting for her to become ripe enough so she could sell her to mercs who would pay top coin for prime rape meat. With the hair she could repair any damage and for the next 10 years could sell her off just as she is. whole, pure, innocent, and very fuckable

>>92762749

Who knows, at this point though the only time she sings to Rapunzel is when she's a baby, every other time she has Rapunzel do it, when it seemingly wouldn't be required at all, I mean, it worked fine when Gothel sang it to the flower.

> Rapunzel was little more than a pet to her, and pets aren't allowed to leave.

Sure, but if you treat a pet well they wouldn't want to leave regardless, if you treat it like crap all it's going to do is be scared and angry, and probably lash out at you.

>>92762504
She could have had her underground and not even thinking there was an outside world, but that would mess too much with the fairy tale. Saying she could have been more cold and pragmatic than playing house.

Makes sense she didn't treat her like shit though. People keep comparing Rapunzel to mundane stuff when she was a fountain of youth. If it were that or a free wealth dispenser, plenty of people would cherish it and guard it with their lives. That it's a cute thing also makes it easier to shower with affection.

>>92763068

Sure Gothel definitely could have been smarter in how she told Rapunzel about the world, namely that she could have told her it would be literally impossible for Rapunzel to live freely outside. Giving her any kind of literature was also a bad idea, since it only conveys to her more about the world.

The movie made me feel that she did. She wasn't ourtright cruel to her. But she did imprison her. Twist it one way you could say she was just being over protective.

If this was a better story it would've shown her struggling between keeping her for herself and her love for her adoptive daughter fighting to set what's good for her. Show her findinf ways to give Rapunzel a taste of the world by giving her pictures and stories about the outside world. Give her a hobby like sketching. Have her heart broken when Rapunzel asks for more things to draw when her prison runs out of.

>>92759883
Did Gothel molest her?

>>92764484
No. People like Gothel are so selfish that there is no conflict for them. They're never really thinking about how things might be better for you and it's shitty to give kids false hope like that because that hope keeps them in their situation.

I feel like she knew being nice would get her what she wanted without Rapunzel being suspicious. She was just too quick to turn on her at the first sign of rebellion for there to be actual love.

>>92764757

Pretty much, she was basically just emotionally manipulating her by painting herself to be the one beacon of kindness in a horrible dangerous world. It's only made worse by the fact that she ((presumably)) belittles Rapunzel in terms of looks and ability all the time to make it seem like she NEEDS Gothel to live properly in this world.

Gothel then showing Rapunzel kindness and little bits of motherly love make Rapunzel think that she really is a nice person and wants to look out for her own stupid self. It's clear in the reprise that Rapunzel's intake of the real world has changed her views, since Gothel tries the same belittling shit again and Rapunzel actually gets offended and talks back to her, after which Gothel immediately drops the motherly act since she knows it won't work anymore.

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>>92764516