Was Age of Ultron really that bad? Or were the expectations

>>92691256
both

It wasnt bad.

Expectations were high and theres a few hicups still a good movie.

Most of the negativity comes from idiots on both sides of the shitpost spectrum

I just can't stand quippy Ultron. Nor his humanoid design.

>>92691528
It makes sense in this version. MCU Ultron wasn't made as an AI, it was created by forcing the Mind Stone into the mold of a computer, so naturally it acts more like a living thing, and is more insane.

>>92691256

Expectations here always seem to be set too high. "That was enjoyable" is never enough, if it wasn't 100% perfect, it was therefore bad.

It's got it's flaws, and like a lot of the Phase 2 Marvel movies, the trailer sold people on it being a lot darker than it actually was, but it's by no means terrible.

In terms of how much money it made, expectations were again too high, the first Avengers movie was a once-in-a-lifetime thing, seeing those characters come together for the first time isn't something you can't recapture.

>>92691256
It was boring and had some weird choices in it.
Like Hawkeye's family. Okay, this is a universe in which Hawkeye is a guy who has it together and has a family. It can happen, but it felt weird.
Hulkbuster actually busts Hulk. Okay, this is a universe in which that can happen, but it felt weird.

PORN HAHA

Ultron, outside Sokovia, was a non event.

He was on the internet. So he should have been shutting down things and taking over the world's communications and infrastructure. Letting the whole world know about him and causing terror.

>>92692102
>Like Hawkeye's family. Okay, this is a universe in which Hawkeye is a guy who has it together and has a family. It can happen, but it felt weird.
I thought that was the best part of the movie DESU.

>>92691256
fast guy died in the dumbest way imaginable just so that someone could die dramatically
quips quips quips
"humans make... smaller humans, what are they called?"

I hate Whedon

>>92692221
didn't they establish that Jarvis was managing to block him from doing so

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>>92691950
I'm not saying it doesn't make sense. I just hate it. The comics design makes sense too and is a better one.

We could've had a better story since they were using Sokovia anyway.

>Avengers:long weekend of Ultron

>>92692299
Jarvis was only keeping Ultron away from the nuclear weapons.

which is dumb because nuclear weapons are not controlled through the internet.

>>92691256
Good scene but the male actor wasn't black so it takes some "oompf" out of it.

>>92692299
also, if you are going to have two god like AIs fighting each other in cyberspace. Show, not tell.

>>92691528
humanoid does not mean what you think it means

>>92692107
Reminder that MCU Widow is canonically barren and therefore perfectly safe to nut inside.

>>92692407
what do you think he thinks humanoid means? Ultron was literally humanoid the majority of the movie and was only not humanoid before he infected all the suits and started building his perfect body

>>92692453
not the anon you were replying to but generally what people assume when you say humanoid is 2 arms, 2 legs, walks upright. I think what you mean has to do with the teeth etc. I have no idea if there's a specific term for that

either way there's no point in having a war over semantics

>>92692331
Not by the internet but nuclear facilities do recieve a lot of cyber attacks irl, so they're clearly accessable

>>92692453
Ultron's bodies are all humanoid, up to the last one. What anon complains about it that they gave him a face with expressions rather than a monstrous jowled mouth like Defoe's Green Goblin.

>>92692657
but actually launching nuclear weapons requires humans to physically do something.

even if ultron could get on the radio/sat comms and transmit launch codes. the humans would likely seek verification.

>>92691256
From my perspective, it was muddled and disjointed to the point where I didn't care that much about any plotline because none of them were given enough attention. Winter Soldier and Civil War are basically what the 2nd Avengers arch should have been. Ultron felt like filler that just didn't matter. I don't care about the twins, or Vision, or Falcon, or anyone else for that matter, and it looks like the MCU doesn't either. In fact, it seems like they're doing their best to avoid it entirely in favor of the Civil War arch.

>>92691256

Lack of stakes. We got and lost Quicksilver.

Avengers started the movie with a big win, should have ended with them way more fractured.

>>92691256
I'm gonna need the source of that specific pic, OP
For research
On gamma rays
Yeah

>>92693270
Chanel Preston

I think its a Iron Man porno

>>92693292
thank you anon
I shall share with you my valuable findings

>>92693270
Iron Man XXX porno like right after Batman XXX porno. Honestly that's about the best scene from the movie.

Well okay Madam Masque getting it on with another woman and then her henchman was kind of hot.

>>92691256
It's just as good as the first Avengers
Just expectations were too high and people's fascination with the first one made the second one look worse

>>92693356

Just that it's one of those superhero pornos where they're fully naked. Unlike the later Axel Braun ones where they have their costumes on but have that hole for their private areas to be fucked.

>>92693391
For a second I thought you were talking about the porno

>>92693421
Well, it makes sense. If they're fully naked how is comic book parody porn any different than regular porn?

>>92693634
I guess regular porn is better written

I think it mostly comes down to expectations. I also think that Avengers Assemble was actually pretty weak on the plot and had a lot of pacing issues, but it was just such a landmark cinema event to have all of those characters crossing over successfully that it distracted from that.

I feel that Age of Ultron was in a way doomed to be disappointing because it had to be as good as it made everyone feel to see the Avengers Assembled on screen in the first movie, but just on the merits of it as a movie because the MCU was pretty established at that point.

>>92691256

It didn't have a good focus or clear vision. It took too long to set up the villain and bring all the heroes together. As they had to had 3 more.

The first one had loki show up immediately and had the heroes brought together right away.

>>92693744
>The first one had loki show up immediately and had the heroes brought together right away.

Not really, it starts out with a Nick Fury car chase, takes ages to go anywhere. Unites some of the heroes only for them to have stupid overly manufactured misunderstanding fights, then they spend like half the movie playing with their dicks on the helicarrier as the movie slows to a crawl. It's not until about the last quarter that you finally get all of the Avengers together fighting as a team, and even then it's just a generic alien hivemind army.

In Age of Ultron it literally opens on an Avengers team action scene.

>>92692410
She's a monster

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>>92691528
>I just can't stand quippy Ultron.

That was the only thing I liked about the movie. I wasn't really invested in any of it though so I just imagined it was Killface all along. As comedy is the only way I can take these movies seriously anymore.

Vision is a cuck

>>92691256
It was that bad

>>92691256
I wouldn't say my expectations were that high and it was still disappointing. Not without any positive points but not really good over all.

>>92691256
The marketing was complete bullshit. If they had advertised it as "another Avengers movie, with a quirky villain and cool superhero action" I think people would've been far more accepting of it. Except the trailers made it look like a much darker, more serious movie (the first trailer is legitimately a horror movie trailer, go watch it) that might've upped the stakes a bit.

Still I don't mind AoU too much. There's some really cool action, especially the opening scene which is our only real look at The Avengers operating as a cohesive unit. A lot of the character development is really nice too, Natasha/Hulk is absolute garbage but Hawkeye gets a lot of quality screentime, as do Cap and Banner.

>>92692410
>Wanting to only nut inside women who won't bare you many children
Why are you such degenerate trash?

>>92693921

....except you're ignoring the value of establishing your villain. I feel like replying to you is a waste cause you immediately go

>Not really, it starts out with a Nick Fury car chase, takes ages to go anywhere.

I mean... Loki was there too, but I guess you think that doesn't matter. Ultron has to be established and he doesn't have a clear goal. The villain pushes the heroes and drives the story, and they drag ass too long to do that in AoU.

>In Age of Ultron it literally opens on an Avengers team action scene.

Except vision, scarlet witch and quicksilver, they still don't join the avengers until the end.

>>92693634
THANK YOU! Japanese Power Rangers porn is the worst for this. They'll have a chick dressed up like a Power Ranger, the bad guys will rub her tits through the costume for a bit, and then the costume comes off and it's just standard Japanese porn

>>92691256
AoU wasn't great but it was good. People were still disappointed though because the hype was so high. The main problem was that it didn't feel like the climax to phase 2. It felt like just another Marvel film.

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Hulk fucking Black widow was actually one of the best things about.

>>92691256
Quiptron was terrible, which is sad because Spader did a great job with the voice.

I mean, it would have been so easy to make him more menacing by beating the shit out of or killing one of the main characters before the final battle. The way the movie played out though, he was basically a punching bag and his "clones" were paper mache.

>>92694478
>AoU wasn't great but it was good.
Not really. I mean, the villain was twarted at every turn, and every move he made was overturned, from beginning to end. If the movie was Age of Ultron and Ultron was not a threat in the slightest, I can't really say the movie was good.

>>92692864
Fuck you I like Falcon, they actually made him cool enough and unique that I wouldn't mind if he got super soldier serum'd and took caps place.

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They had ONE job

>>92694333
Japanese porn in general is terrible though.

>getting off to pixels and fat guys with micro dicks almost exclusively doing missionary with a girl that can only emit a high pitched reeeeeeeee

>>92694536
I like to think Whedon actually watched that Iron Man porno and thats what gave him the idea for this relationship.

>>92691318

fpbp

>>92692401

remember the one or two parts where they actually did show them fighting in cyberspace? no thanks. How about just don't have that shit in the movie

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>>92694205
>Except the trailers made it look like a much darker, more serious movie (the first trailer is legitimately a horror movie trailer, go watch it)

This is one of the big reasons I never watch trailers anymore. If they don't outright spoil major plot points, more often than not it ends up being misleading one way or the other.

If it's something I'm interested in I just watch it blind and see what I think. Then I get to have the super weird experience where I hear what other people thought and completely disagree. (though not on Ultron much, it was pretty lame)

>>92691528
I liked Age of Ultron a lot and it still really bugged the shit out of me that he got to be fairly menacing through his first scene and then they basically throw it out the window with jokes for the rest of the movie.

2 really big problems that aren't just "quips"

1. the villain was underwhelming as fuck, for multiple reasons. Part of it was the trailers building him up to be much more terrifying than he was, and part of it was the fact that the final battle seemed way too relaxed for and easy. They also chose one of the worst possible designs out of all the concept art.

2. So many unnecessary scenes forced in to lead into other MCU properties. Thor's journey to see the Infinity Stones and the introduction of Klaw come to mind. Then there's the fact that Strucker gets taken out like a chump in the first 5 minutes.

>>92692102
Tbh if i were in charge i would have had Tony be on the losing end of the fight and then have Thor show up and save him

>>92691256
It's not great but it would've been a complete disaster under any other director. Say what you will about Wheadon but the movie should've collapsed under the weight of everything it had to set up and he made it work somehow

>>92694849
or they could have made it look fucking radical

It was pretty bad. Just a few points I disliked:
>Ultron, a supposed genius, doesn't leave a backup of himself somewhere
>even though the movie has the most civilian casualties of any thus far, the Avengers quip the entire time
>the Avengers never once take Ultron seriously
>even though Wanda assisted Ultron in his plan, his plan that led to the deaths of thousands of Sokovians, she receives no punishment
>even though it was through Tony's negligence that Ultron was created, thus leading to the deaths of thousands of Sokovians, he never receives punishment and in fact the movie treats him as a hero for not accepting the blame

>>92695000

I disagree, it was a disaster, it did collapse and he didn't make it work

>>92695133
>>even though the movie has the most civilian casualties of any thus far, the Avengers quip the entire time

Speaking of which, the part at th end where Cap says no way in hell are they leaving one civilian behind seemed like an incredibly heavy handed response to how people reacted to Man of Steel. It also doesn't quite mesh with him in Civil War acknowledging that no matter how good they are, people will still die on their watch.

>>92695133
>even though it was through Tony's negligence that Ultron was created, thus leading to the deaths of thousands of Sokovians, he never receives punishment and in fact the movie treats him as a hero for not accepting the blame

He's white, rich and American. The people he let die weren't. That's the only part of the movie that's perfectly accurate.

>>92691256
It's a bad movie.

Watch Terminator 2 and then Age of Ultron.

Age of Ultron is not a good action movie, If you are not a kid or a manchild you can like it, but you can't call it good.

>>92691405
This. It's less novel than the first Avengers but I think it's actually a better movie when you get down to brass tacks.

The first Avengers feels like a TV pilot in retrospect.

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>>92691256
Okay, here's a few ways I would change things to make AoU suck less:

>Opening action scene stays the same, but instead of JARVIS controlling the Iron Legion they are run by a new AI called ULTRON whose job it is to suppress threats, but it is seen that he sometimes does so at the expense of civilian safety
>Party and after-party stay the same, Ultron attacks the Avengers and explains his new purpose (replacing humanity with robots who are more capable of defending Earth) before escaping
>no Banner-Natasha romance
>Wanda and Pietro are seen using their new abilities to help the poor of Sokovia, and their fame draws the attention of Ultron who summons them and offers an alliance
>Also the "children" joke isn't present, and Ultron's new body resembles pic related
>Ultron cutting off Klawe's arm is taken more seriously, as Klawe attempts to attack Ultron upon realizing he's a Stark creation which earns him a cut off arm
>The battle on the ship takes a dramatic turn when Ultron, in his new Adamantium body, manages to overpower Thor and kill him while the other Avengers are distracted by Wanda's mindgames
>The scenes on Clint's farm go pretty much the same, there is a funeral scene for Thor where he is laid out in a field, the scene ends as the Bifrost opens above the body and takes it away
>no Banner-Natasha romance
>Ultron and the gang steal a prototype body from Dr. Cho and, using his own mechanical abilities and the Mind Gem, Ultron creates The Vision as the first of his new "human race" and a weapon against The Avengers

>>92692221
>tfw no scene like that one in Mighty Avengers where Ultron sends a global message about extinguishing human life

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>>92695572
>The team moves in to save Cho and are met by Ultron, the Twins and a childlike Vision who refuses to take action, but when Ultron derails a train to serve as a distraction The Twins and Vision decide to rescue civilians
>As the rest of the team is busy with the train Ultron attacks Tony, destroying his suit and kidnapping him
>Beneath Sokovia, Ultron appears to Tony in a final body resembling the one in the movie, which sparks a discussion about hypocrisy, legacy and purpose
>The team arrive, free Tony and set about taking Ultron down
>The final battle essentially happens the same way, Fury arrives with Rhodey and Falcon to help the team and evacuate civilians
>When Ultron sends his entire army to take down The Avengers they are nearly overwhelmed (pic related), but Vision is able to summon Mjolnir and conjure a lightning storm which destroys a vast majority of the drones
>The team destroy Sokovia, Vision kills Ultron, same shit
>movie ends

>>92695388
>>Watch Terminator 2 and then Age of Ultron.

that's such a pointless comparison

>>92694002
>Ultron
>Killface

Well fuck.

>>92695267
How does him being white have any affect on anything?

>>92695945
Because bigotry thrives

>>92695572
>>92695674


The movie is shit, but your fanfic is shit too. I hate "big ideas" niggers

>>92692102
It felt weird cause it was, out of no where, "Lets go to Hawkeye's secret farm home, oh look Nick Fury is there too!"
Then theres a scene where Widow tries to get Hulk to bang her in the shower only to then reveal shes barren and considers herself a monster cause of it.

It may be the worst "Act two low point" I've ever seen. Whedon is a fucking hack.

>>92695679
>100m+ action movies

Well if you want we can compare age of ultron with dumb and dumber 2 or a Adam Sandler movie.

>>92692221
I hated that bit. Films like this always treat the internet as some office somewhere.
"He's hijacked the internet!" "Hes hacked into the internet!"

>>92692282
I remember Whedon explaining it
"I was thinking about who had to die and I didnt want to kill either of the girls"
Why does someone have to die? Why could the girls die? What is wrong with you?

>>92695674
So then what would Ragnarok be about?

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>>92691256
>buttfuck in the pussy

After the events of the first Avengers film the second one should have been them fighting Thanos. Having the villain be Ultron just made it feel like filler.

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>>92691256
It was bad.
I mean actually, objectively bad
It was the marvel movie that fell into the "trashy low brow summer blockbuster" slot the most
The way it handles characters is weak, effectively giving every character the same core personality and mannerisms with exactly two exceptions

Where the first one soooort of gave each character a distinct archetype and a designated insecurity/angst, AgeOfUltron fails to properly further those archetypes or insecurities.

The majority of time, the characters are interacting as an ensemble (either in fight scenes or casually). Where Avengers 1 at least let the fight scenes act as solid characterization bits (where characters fight each other vs alone vs together), AoU fails to give its fight scenes that same basic characterization. The opening fight is arguably the strongest, with exactly two interesting moments:
>cap and Thor combo move, indicating practiced team work and understanding each other's strengths and weaknesses
>Iron Man's vision and him taking the scepter

Iron man taking the scepter sets a theme for the movie that never really comes to fruition. It sets up the tone that there is something dark and tragic and even edgy that leads from Tony's paranoia and fear.

The most we get out of Ultron is some casual property damage that you can find in your average Transformers movie and a side note in Civil War.

And that's just talking about thematic and tone and characterization issues. That's nothing to say about specific character or plot issues

There's no idea or theme or narrative arc at the heart of AoU. No contrasts or comparisons between characters that resonate or elevate the characters beyond a handful of personality bullet points, a particular issue given that it's as sequel with some established character histories and relationships. It's a movie that feels like every arc (prologue, beginning, middle and end) was written by a different writer from a different background

>>92696677
The only two scenes that even work play as character bits are the nightmares which more just rehash and better visualize the driving forces and emotions of the particular characters

The other is the farm house scene which is generally more confident than the rest of the film but still isn't sure what direction it wants to actually DEVELOP the characters in beyond where they currently are. Like they lose this fight against Ultron and have these hallucinogenic episodes and it's clear the tone is "reflection and contemplation" Whedon flounders on how he wants each character to change. Because he doesn't want them to change. He wrote for TV before and the rule in TV serials is the status quo.
Ultimately, what Ultron gives us is a bit of juicy background tidbits for The fandom without any substantial character shifts in mentality or outlook or morality

>>92691318
Yup.

>>92695572
>thor dying
You're an idiot.

>no banner x natasha
BOOOOOOOOO

>>92691256
AoU's Vision was a Mary Sue AND a Deus Ex Machina
- only appears in third act
- is easily able to do something considered hard (lift Thor's hammer)
- has no personality whatsoever
- plays a very major part in fighting the big bad
- kills the big bad himself
This is below shit writing.

>>92697037
you legitimately lose any right to call anyone an idiot if you actually wanted BannerxNatasha

>>92697037
>Thor Ragnarok has Hel and Hela in it anyway
>Acting like him dying would matter in the long run

>>>>>>>>>>>liking The Widow Splitter.

>>92697119
Why are you implying the Vision was anything other than this?

>>92696033
This really is /co/mblr.

>>92697138
>>92697146
I'm biased because I really like Ruffalo's Banner.

Also, him dying and coming back in ragnarok because hela would be worse.
The first avenger death being undone so quickly would be ridiculous.

>>92697119

The only part of this that I can really argue with is "no personality", which clearly isn't true, but the rest of it? Being a Vision fan is just 100% suffering most of the time, and getting this made it all worthwhile for a few minutes.

I still look at the trailer from time to time and think to myself, this would have made a great movie

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>>92697348
Ruffalo's Banner is the best we've had, that's true.

But pairing him with the sole female on the team makes legitimately no sense.

The best thing they could have done was focus on the theme of incompletion, of having something you desire that you can never get
>Tony: a sense of security and control and a clean conscience
>Steve: his past friends and a sense of belonging in his current time
>Thor: security for Asgard and his people
>Banner: release from his anger, his own humanity
>Natasha: Clint (at least as a surrogate for a proper family)
>Scarlet Witch and Quicksilver: a family, revenge on Tony Stark
>Ultron: belonging, peace in our time
Clint should have been the only character who is generally complete emotionally and tethers the other characters and is the least willing to die since he has more to live for

>>92697512
Nah, superheroes' main core is escapism -which is why the DCEU failed so far, they didn't focus on that-.
Incompletion, having something you desire that you can never get doesn't fit with that, imo.

>>92697573
Expand on that, what do you mean their main core is escapism?
Like the main appeal of hero flicks are that they are escapism from our own issues and the hardships of our own life?

>>92691256
Bad pacing and a mediocre villain

>>92697596
Not necessarily hardships, it can be that too though.
Escapism can either be escapism from our own issues/hardships or escapism towards something supreme and unachievable (like having supwerpowers and saving the galaxy with a group of supowerpowered bros and battle babes).

I honestly think escapism has gotten a lot of bad rep it doesn't deserve. It's perfectly fine in moderation -letting it consume you is bad, but that goes for most stuff- and it's what makes superheroes great.
Not that superhero stories can't have other values too. But one consistent, easily achievable and fitting 'target' for superheroes is to satisfy our escapism.

>>92694566
I still imagine Spader as Ultron when reading.

>>92691528
I liked it because it's the dark mirror of RDJ's Iron Man.

>>92697665
I wish the anon who asked me to expand would tell me his opinion on my view.

>>92697756
I mean, I get that was the point but he never came across that way.
He just make Stark quips then did bizarre shit like tear peoples arms off and sing the Pinocchio song. Any subtext of him being an "evil Stark" is superficial

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>>92697756
>>92698070

But Stark is the evil Stark. Really, it was a misdirect. You think Ultron is going to be the evil reflection of Iron Man, but really Vision is the good reflection of Iron Man

Sensitive Joss Whedon never moved on from being le nerdy quip man who's kind of ashamed of nerd shit and masturbates furiously to Strong Female Characters.

>>92693317
Keep your findings to your sock anon

Captain America was a fucking idiot who was going to let the world die rather than compromise his morals. That's what bothers me most.

>>92698061
I agree escapism, along with romanticism, are necessary coping tools with the omnipresent suffering and stress in the world.

My issue with the Ultron movie is it pretends it's something it's not. It's not like John Wick which is aware of its niche. Ultron is a very incomprehensible and floundering and relatively shallow movie that wants very hard for you to think it's deep, that it can stand toe to toe with the Dark Knight or even the first Avengers.

With no weight in the movie, it feels like heroes fighting Ultron are clouds beating each other with foam bats

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>>92698184
>Mike liked Age of Ultron
>he didn't like and more baffling didn't understand Civil War
What the fuck man.

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>>92698297

Shut the fuck up Veidt

why does Wheaton hate Cap so much

>>92698369
Liked GotG2 as well. Sometimes he surprises me as well. Unless there's money involved, I really can't explain it.

>>92698340
For me, it was a fine movie, because I never got it trying to sell itself as something more team-ensemble action film. Dumb fun + people you've already seen and care for.

>>92698496
He was a dumbass in CW too.
>Be prepared to battle your friends for the sake of another friend who kills people for the group you hate more than anything

>>92697573
It isn't, but I get why a manchild would think that.

>>92698654
>mature stories for mature readers such as myself

>>92698654
>>92698678
No, no, no, let's give him a chance.

What's the main core of superheroes, if not escapism? Go on. Tell us.

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>>92698571
But that's my issue.
They aren't the same people even from the other movies they were in, save for maybe Stark.

The team action ensemble is also my issue: if it was just that, the action and choreography for the group action scenes should have been better. They were...adequate but compare the myriad of action scenes to the oner in the original Avengers where each member works together to contain the invasion in the city.

Even as a Summer Action Blockbuster, it was passable in my book compared to even the Fast and Furious movies.

It wanted to be a bit of everything and, without any cohesive creative vision, it felt like a lot of nothing

Also, I would maintain my stance that the movie wanted to be a darker, heavier and more drama and character intensive movie based on both the trailers for it ("No strings on me " and all that shit) and the farm house scene which is the designated character development bloc

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>>92698704
Original responder here
I would personally argue that it's not escapism as much as a new iteration of ideal worship. Modern mythology, characters who have great power that is representative of some greater strength of personality or wisdom.

In other words, the core is idolatry

>>92698841
Hulk was hulk, same with banner. Natasha, clint, thor too, imo. Maybe cap was less concerned about civilian life, but not too such an extent that it'd be weird, especially since sokovia had people-rescue scenes .

>>92691256
personally i just wanted a "save the world" story, without the "can't save everyone/collateral damage" subplot

>>92698917
Idolatry and escapism are related, imo.

>>92698704
Escapism is the basis of pretty much all forms of entertainment, pretending capeshit is special in that sense is just dumb, it's the equivalent of thinking only America has freedom.

Superheroes are not a genre and will never be a genre. Can anyone say twilight, pokemon, Harry Potter or star wars appeal isn't Escapism? Not only the DCEU movies didn't fail financially, the problem isn't the lack of escapism but the difference between what people both fans and casual viewers expect regardless of the quality of the movie.
Superheroes are nothing new, gilgamesh, herakles, david, or even fucking Zorro or dick Tracy played similar roles. Capeshit is just a tool to tell stories, stories where people project themselves fighting injustice or bad guys, but in no way more escapist than Garfield or the Saw movies

>>92699084
anon, everything except saw and garfield is sorta supwerheroes from what you mentioned.

>>92698593

no, that made sense

>one group of friends wants to kill your original OG friend from childhood
>be prepared to fight them

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>>92698944
Well but I mean in what way were Banner or Natasha or Cap really acting differently from each other. They still had their designated insecurity but we never get a sense of WHY they do the things they do in the movie, outside of the obvious Stop Ultron thread.

Why do Banner and Natasha fall in love? Why does Stark want to make Vision? Why does Banner help him? Why does Steve have OutOfTime stress if he seems to have plenty of friends? Why doesn't Banner tell the rest of the team and agree to work in secret?

The characters in this movie basically aren't agents acting on their own will and interests: they're NPCs with flavor text that will always do certain things because the plot beats demand it.

Why does Stark want to create Vision and Banner helps? Because we needed more scenes of the Avengers arguing and fighting with each other for the trailers and screenshots and add to the ambiance

Ultron is the most artificially driven MCU movie in terms of plot and characterization. Things happen because someone decided that they would happen, not that someone found that the characters would interact this way on their own

Even in Avengers, the quarrels among teammates felt believable because these characters had egos and insecurities that tried to overwhelm other people. Cap hates grandstanders, Iron Man still feels insecure about his dad and himself surrounded by these supermen, Thor thinks he's above mortals, Natasha just wants Clint back and Banner doesn't want to be used or abused by others

>>92691256
I went in with no expectations and still thought it was bad. Some fun parts, but overall a bad movie.

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>>92699052
I would disagree: escapism is often about finding a specific surrogate you can insert yourself into and pretending that their plot-driven successes are your own.

Idolatry has more to do with surrendering the self to an external ideal, often a person or persona, and align their moral compass to point north for that person. They want to become more like that person internally where escapism is turning a powerful or popular character more like yourself to augment projection.

Unless you mean escapism as an escape from thinking about our own mortality, in which case yeah, 99% of all media and non-essential functions are about ignoring death

>>92699242
people don't need a reason to fall in love. he tries to fix the problem ultron caused. he's a scientist (actually that applies to the previous question too). Science involves experimenting and failing to get the correct result a few times, before getting it. Just because the failed ones have catastrophic side-effects, it doesn't mean the process isn't valid. gaining something new doesn't make the losses don't count. because he knows they wouldn't agree.

>>92698944
>Hulk
>thor

Thor and Hulk barely had personalities in the first Avengers movie. And what little Thor had already kind of contradicted his solo movie.
>oh yeah but Loki's adopted
really?

>Clint

He was barely in the first one so there was nothing for them to fuck up really.

>banner
>Natasha

No, their whole thing came from literally nowhere. And especially Banner. In the first Avengers he was self aware enough to know a woman like Natasha was probably trying to manipulate him and didn't fall for it, and he also had enough of a spine to call out Fury when they found out about the Tesseract weapons. In Avengers 2 he's just Tony's bitch and the biggest pussy of the team by far.

>cap

Cap acting like he's never heard a swear word before and also his "well if we can't save everyone we might as well all die" were both wildly out of character.

>>92692864
>2nd Avengers arch
>arch
What are they teaching the kids in school these days?

>>92699361
escapism, as in wishing for an escape from dealing with your day to day problems, because prayer will cause a supernatural being to help you

>>92699417
>people don't need a reason to fall in love
Spare us the poetics, Shakespeare. This romance plot came out of whedon's was. That's the facts.

>>92699417
People need chemistry to fall in love which I never got a distinct sense of from those
I would have expected her and Steve to become an item given their chemistry and interaction in winter soldier

And what I don't understand is why is uploading Jarvis into Vision (who possesses the infinity stone that created Ultron) helping? He clearly doesn't understand it well enough given that Ultron was born. Why would anyone trust Stark to not fuck up the same set up twice in a week? He hadn't studied the stone anymore than they had when they made Ultron?

The answer is really straightforward anon: they needed to get Vision in their to use more of the Marvel properties they had access to and to build up Infinity Wars cast

>>92699553
because jarvis has already been shown to beat ultron in a mind (internet) battle

>>92699649
I get that
But he wasn't a fully fledged AI.
Theoretically Jarvis could have gone rogue like Ultron did, based on the influence of the Infinity Stone

Tony goes into making Vision as blind as he was when making Ultron

>>92699754
And to build from that, the Avengers could have just as easily beat Ultron in the physical world and had Jarvis focus on beating him out of the Internet

Why make Vision and risk any of it

>>92699219
I really feel bad for you for thinking that.

>>92699219

>Garfield
>not a superhero

I agree with >>92699824

>>92694536
If they force this in IW Im done with the Russos.

>>92699824
pokemon, harry potter, zoro, mythological heroes , all are clearly superheroes

>>92691256
>never any good Widow porn
Sigh

>>92691528
Ultron's plan is far more threatening and rational than Loki's

>>92699890
Loki's is just acting as an agent of Thanos while self grandiosing

I don't get why Ultron's actual goal was and why he had it.

>>92699978
He did what he calculated was "best" for humanity.

>>92699978

He was going to do something to cull humanity's weak so the species as a whole would be better off or some shit, but then the Avengers stole Vision so get threw a fit and decided to kill everyone instead

>>92700036
But he stated that after he was done, all that would be left is himself, the only Metal being

Like he never explains how that's better than the alternatives, how the potential for an extinction level event would justify doing it artificially rather than helping humanity prepare to become more able to survive it BEFORE the next extinction event?

>>92700489
Nah, some people would survive the meteor.

>>92700120
Except Stwrk's AI says the plan would be extinction level. Ultron would wipe out all of humanity

>>92700640
>but then the Avengers stole Vision so get threw a fit and decided to kill everyone instead

>>92700547
Doubtful. Ultron, despite what he claimed, did not like humanity nor wanted it to evolve. The only time he's sincere is in his chat with Vision at the end, when he says there's no use in it continuing to exist.

>>92700751
Yeah, that's another thing
Why did he want to build Vision again?

Like was it because he wanted to be invulnerable or wanted the infinity stone? Why would either of those things be necessary to save humanity?

Why didn't he talk to the Avengers before attacking them?

Why does his character do the specific things he does? Why those things over others?

>>92691256
It felt to be week of quiptron. It was a weaker film than first movie, Quiptron didn't felt much of a threatening villain since he was qupping left and right instead of his usual incarnation. Trailer didn't helped as well since it was serious business, then movie dropped.

>>92700888


because Whedon is a hack

>>92700888
>Why did he want to build Vision again?
He wanted a vibranium perfect body.

Like was it because he wanted to be invulnerable or wanted the infinity stone?
Yes.

Why would either of those things be necessary to save humanity?
Because saving humanity was never in the cards. Whoever believes it probably also believes the Joker doesn't make plans.

>>92701180
You cut the most important part of it.

>>92699084
>it's the equivalent of thinking only America has freedom
So it's true?

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>>92701223

Yeah, I fucked up when I cropped it. Fixed.

>>92691256
Did he cum in?

I thought Avengers 2 was awful.
In this, many people seem to agree with me.
I thought Avengers 1 was almost as bad, closer to Thor on the scale than Iron Man.
In this, far fewer people seem to agree with me.

New subtopic: who was the best potential LI for Natasha, if they had to have one at all and why?

>>92691256
it was one of the only 2 movies i've seen to make me fall asleep. it was awful. a boring movie is worse than a downright shitty one in my opinion. this story was the same typical man vs technology bullshit you've seen 10000 times already

>>92701730

Falcon

>>92701759
And why?
If we're just going with black guys, Tchalla is better for chemistry

>>92701730
Was? She wore an arrow pendant in Avengers.
Now? We'll see how Carol turns out.

>>92701730
Clint or Steve.

>>92702006
Yeah
To this day I wish they made her a cuckquean to Clint. Would have added a lot to her Black Widow persona and archetype

Plus I'm a sucker for a good tragedy

>>92701803

How does T'Challa have chemistry with her in the movie?

Why Falcon? Well, we all agree that her and Banner is Trash, do I need to elaborate there?

Hawkeye having a family helped humanize him quickly after being neglected in the first movie, so I wouldn't cut that out.

She and Cap becoming friends and respected colleagues was handled well in Winter Soldier, so well I can't believe people actually want them to end up together. They have a more solid friendship than any two other Avengers.

So, why Falcon? I just imagine they're both the kind of people to treat it like a casual thing and not like a typical Hollywood "we had sex so now we're soulmates" ordeal. If she had to fuck anyone on the team that's how I want it to go

>>92702107
>not making it a LauraNatClint thing
Super comfy spy family and it gives Natasha a home to go back to.

>>92701730
Wanda.

>>92700888
>Why did he want to build Vision again?

He wanted to be more human while also being more powerful.

>>92702170
Do not cuck the vision.

I expect someone to post that time the vision got cucked, now.

>>92696220
Can anyone explain what exactly Hawkeye's farm accomplished narratively? They just end up going back to Avengers Tower later, and all the stuff they need to fight Ultron is there.

>>92702166
I thought that was what they were going to do more in the Farm house scene but it was just a sprinkling

>>92702271
>gives clarity to what Clint is fighting for and how grounded he is compared to the others
>shows how close Nat is to him
Uhh. Dunno what else.

>>92702322
>>92702271

supposed to contrast how over his head he is, being a normal man with normal problems like needed to re-tile the kitchen or whatever, while everyone else is just a supergod without any mortal concerns.

Main point was to make keep dropping hints that he'd die so Whedon could make himself feel super clever by having Quickass die instead

>>92702170
May would probably top her hard.

You could tell which Ultron scenes were reshoots and which scenes weren't just by the tone of Spader's voice. It's was quite telling. They also should have left scenes like this in the movie.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jFfOudkKIW0

>>92703118
*Natasha.

>>92697119
I wouldn't call him a true Mary Sue since the Avengers didn't immediately love him once he was brought to life and they still argued over how he was able to hold the hammer instead of just accepting him as worthy.

>>92703408

At the end, Steve and Tony are both still so emasculated by it that they both refuse to consider him a person rather than accept he was more "worthy" than them. By the time of Civil War, we don't know if they both still feel the same, or if they've accepted him, it's the kind of thing that deserves more space.

>>92702322
It's the designated introspection scene that doesn't really work too well

>>92693634
If the likenesses are well done then it works.

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>>92691256
i think I speak for everyone when I say the hulkbuster scene is pretty much the only truly memorable part

The really weird thing about this movie to me is how interchangeable everyone felt. The first movie, even with the constant quips, everyone had a distinct personality, arc and reason to take down Loki. In AoU, that just wasn't there.

>>92691256
Yes

Wait a minute...This is porn!

>>92703739

Only Wanda and Thor truly accept him as a person, at present. Tony is close to doing so due to Jarvis.

I think his relationship with Wanda is what makes the Avengers realize he truly is a living being.