In the Steven Universe timeline the Confederacy won the Civil

>>92649789
I'm personally waiting for yandere Adolf.
He must've been more thirsty for Pearl then Pearl was for Rose.

That would be INCREDIBLY stupid, and that's because it would make the Crystal Gems look INCREDIBLY stupid. How do you not know about a system of mass human chattel slavery that's been going on for centuries?

>>92649789

fake and gay

>>92649789
The civil war was not fought over slavery.

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>>92652567
>>muhh states rightsssss

>>92652567
This

>>92652567
prove it

>>92654396
>State's rights
>More like "Property Owner's rights to unpaid labor"
>Boo hoo, my economy can't adapt to the modern world, how dare I be forced to used paid labor.

>>92652567
Good thing this is an AU

>>92654490
>"the modern world"
what a retarded spook

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>>92652567
>this fucking meme
Go back to /pol/

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>>92652567
>Go to letters of secession
>ctrl+f "slave"
>1 of 83

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>>92654490
>>92652567
>not fought over slavery
>Civil War was fought over the economical (and ergo cultural) differences between North and South
>The North relied on an urban paid-labor modernized production economy
>The South relied entirely on cash-crop labor and continued to use and enforce slavery, a major difference between them and the North
>Events leading up to the war between North and South centered around abolition and slavery. I.E. Bleeding Kansas, John Brown's Revolt
>Civil War was not fought over slavery
Christ on a Stick, history books are sure hard to read aren't they?

>>92652567
fine here is your "you"!!
it was fought over the economic implications of slavery.

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>>92652567
>muh "not slavery!!!"
Jesus, I argued way too much with retards like you and I can't bother to say a million reasons why you're wrong, and I'm saying this as someone from Georgia of all places.

It was fought over slavery, that's final.

>>92653330
>>>muhh states rightsssss
every progressive state is currently relying on states rights. From "sanctuary cities" to non-enforcement of federal drug policy; this is not a thing to dismiss.

>>92654644
The war was fought to conquer the South and place its people under the thrall of the capitalist machine that was growing like a cancer in the North. The people, their slaves, their produce... all of it just more fuel for the machine

>>92654854

>implying the south wasn't a capitalistic shithole like the north

>>92654854
the south was essentially already a capitalist shit hole for decades and decades before that tho. The only real difference was it was so uninhabited in some places that some people rightfully were pissed that the land they barely survived on was being robbed by the north but the majority of the power in the south was still in the hands of wealthy plantation owners who were still capitalist assholes who also happened to own slaves.

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>>92652567
>>92654396
>le states roights meme

>>92654644
South rebelled because of the growing power of the federal government was threatening power of the states. Admitting free states meant that the North would have more political power and would out vote the South on every issue, one being slavery of course, but that wasn't the only issue. Stuff like the Supreme Court making gay marriage legal in every state without any say so by the state is the kind of thing the South knew was coming.

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>>92655096
>Stuff like the Supreme Court making gay marriage legal in every state without any say so by the state is the kind of thing the South knew was coming.

Something totally within its power to do and was the correct decision ever since we decided the concept of separate but equal was unconstitutional.

So is there a single source that MIGHT back up the OP's claim?

>>92655213
It sounds ridiculous so probably not.

>>92655186
Why'd it take 60 years after the civil rights movement then? Dems just wanted to secure the gay vote indefinitely, don't kid yourself.

No one ever mentions that Lincoln only freed slaves in the south where he held no actual political sway.

>>92655349
Because if he tried to free the slaves in Union controlled states people under him would have gotten pissed off, refused to fight and maybe even defect. It was easier to do it how he did to make the South look shitty and he was going to free them all when he won anyway, at that point he had to.

>>92655388
That's what I'm saying. People demonize the south for doing something all of America was doing well into the war.

>>92650248
>How do you not know about a system of mass human _____
That's the show.

>>92655399
> something all of America was doing
Slavery was already illegal in every nothern state except for the border states (kentucky, maryland, deleware, missouri)

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>>92652567
Yes it was. You can states rights, but the specific right being fought over was the state's rights to own slaves.

>>92655096
And at the time the thing the Federal government was attempting to interfere with was slavery. How are you not getting this?

>The Civil War was about Slavery
Literally the "9th grade public school" interpretation of the conflict.

>>92655458
The fact Lincoln was elected without a single vote counted from the South was also another thing to fight for. Taxation without representation is what rallied the colonies to fight the British and it happened again.

>>92655552
I'm gonna need a citation.

>>92655349
>“I would save the Union. … If I could save the Union without freeing any slave, I would do it; and if could save it by freeing all the slaves, I would do it. … What I do about Slavery and the colored race, I do because I believe it helps to save this Union.”

Lincoln cared about saving the country by any means necessary, and abolishing slavery in the South helped cripple the Confederate economy, by inciting slaves to rebel and run away.

Quality thread.

>>92655594
Steven Universe threads always are

>>92655569
On the electoral results of the 1860 election? There's a wikipedia page for that. Lincoln didn't even appear on the ballot in any would-be Confederate state.

On the one hand this is fucked up

On the other it sounds like they hung all the confederate leaders which is rad as hell

>>92655458
The right being fought over was the right to secede from the Union.

>>92655518
I do get it. But my point was slavery was where the line was drawn before any more state rights were stripped. So yes, the war was fought over slavery, but it was the bigger picture in the long run.

>They only found out about slavery after the war
B R A V O S U G A R

>>92655619
>rad as hell
Tumblrfaggot. The only thing on earth I hate more than northerners.

>>92655552
Yeah, that's blatantly false. On election day Lincoln captured slightly less than 40 percent of the vote, but he won a majority in the electoral college, with 180 electoral votes. All the votes were counted.

>>92655552
Kinda tough to vote in the election of a country that you started a war to not be a part of. Voting in the US election in 1864 would only be possible if you gave up on the whole "We're a confederation of sovereign powers independent from you now" thing they had going on.

/co/ - Please don't make us talk about comics and cartoons

>>92655654
You guys have to be the sorest losers on the entire planet. Let me guess, you only call it The War of Northern Aggression, and you get extremely bothered when anybody says, "Civil War."

>>92655605
And still managed to get a majority of both the popular vote and electoral vote. I fail to see your point.

>>92655654
>Tumblrfaggot. The only thing on earth I hate more than northerners.
Aren't those basically one and the same thing?

>>92655696
No, it was the 1860 election I was referring to. The one that caused the war in the first place.

>>92655701
Well, the Union did invade an independent state, so yes, you could call that a war of aggression.

>>92655755

> Union did invade an independent state,
> War starts with South Carolina firing on Fort Sumter

>>92655701
I don't even give a fuck about slavery or the war or anything; I'm pretty sure I have ancestors who fought for the union. I can't stand the concept of northerners today acting like self-righteous fucks because of something that ended 150 years ago. If their climate wasn't too shitty for crops they would've had slaves too. They fucking did have slaves to an extent, but that goes against their bullshit little black and white hero narrative.

And then I also go to a Southern uni that's borderline invaded by New Yorkers thinking they're better than everyone from here. That's extremely petty, but I'm a petty person.

>>92655755
>South Carolina literally shot first.
OK

>>92655740
The point was that Southern states felt incredibly anxious at the fact that Northern states had just elected a candidate from an Abolitionist party without needing to win a single electoral vote from the entire south. It was exceedingly concerning to Southern states that Northern states could hoist whatever candidate they chose over the South and there was nothing they could do about it. See, the South was concerned about a balance of power so that would have effective veto power against any perceived attacks on their state sovereignty. Lincoln's election signaled that the balance of power was disrupted and was the flashpoint for secession.

>>92655773
> A Fort with foreign garrison illegally located on your soil
> Is given time to be evacuated yet refuses to
> Is being sent supplies and reinforcements
How is that not a reason to attack it?

>>92655806
The North DID have slaves. Past tense. Slavery was voted out of those states, though.

The North also did have tons of agriculture. Their agrarian output was on par with The South. The difference was the kind of crops. Cotton fucking sucks to pick by hand as opposed to shit like wheat which you can just swipe with a scythe and gather up into big bundles.

Also lol? You're the ones who can't get over what happened 150 years ago.

>>92649789
You know, the Confederacy didn't actually stop fighting the war after the "End of the Civil War" the North declared the war over and forced the leaders of the South to sign a treaty under force, but most of the South didn't actually give up that fight.

We like to think of wars, especially wars America fought, as having very cut and dry starts and ends. When it starts, we fight, we win or lose, and then it ends and that's it. We think of ourselves as the victors for better or worse usually and ignore the fact that obviously the people in power aren't just going to bend over backwards and let their empire fall once their leader has been removed. There was literally nothing stopping the South (who had won most battles of the Civil War) from just picking a new leader and starting over. And they did. For decades, even. The South actually kept fighting an winning quite a bit. History rarely reflects this, because we like to think that the heroes won the war and that was that, but the truth is far more bleak.

Slavery was actually returned to Southern slave holders and then abolished and then returned more than a few times during the continuation of the Civil War that occurred after the "conclusion" of it. Eventually, the fighting stopped but by then a lot of Southern leaders had slipped into the Government and were granting the South powers anyway. The old "The South will rise again!" thing is based on the idea that some southerners have that the Civil War never truly concluded, and they're aren't technically wrong. There just isn't a huge reason to keep fighting anymore. Mostly because they sort of won. The fighting that continued after the "conclusion" of the Civil War showed the strength of the South and high government positions being taken by Southern leaders sort of prove it. The return of slavery (ignoring that it was removed and returned multiple times) is a pretty good example of the South just straight up out enduring the North. That shit is crazy.

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>you will never force Garnet to work the fields

Why even own land?

>>92655891
>>92649789
I guess what I'm trying to say is that I'm not entirely sure how a quick end to the Civil War would effect the actual History of the US after it's conclusion. Or whether or not it's believable that anyone on either side would have allowed such a quick end to the War. It's...it's kind of unbelievable, honestly. Even setting aside the whole idea that the Civil War was about slavery to begin with. It's unbelievable that any of this AU would be true considering how sloppy the Civil War was from the start.

>>92655891
What the fuck are you babbling about? Effective resistance of the South as an organized fighting force was broken when Lee's army surrendered. The South never put another army in the field and for the next decade they were occupied by Federal troops.

>>92655926
>Owning land
>Instead of owning the landowners

>>92655833
So ... you're saying it was about slavery then? Because they were worried about the non-slave states being able to get anti-slave legislation through congress they decided to rebel?

OK. If you still think it's about anything other than slavery I'll give you a quick analogy. Imagine for a moment that New York, Connecticut, Rhode Island, Massachusetts, Vermont, New Hampshire and Maine are super keen on making it a crime to misgender someone (or insert any other overreaching Tumblr far Left pink commie shit you feel like). Like, you call a Kaitlyn Jenner a "he" and you actually serve jail time. The rest of the country is like, "Mmm, naa. Fuck that" and because those states together don't have enough electoral votes to put in a sympathetic president or enough votes in congress to get any legislation through they decide to just go off and become their own country and it starts a war.

Tell me this ... if someone from Maine (in this hypothetical scenario) later told you that the war had nothing to do with trans rights you'd tell them they're full of shit right?

>>92655806
I think the South is pretty cool, even though I've never been, and I live in Alaska, so I really don't have a dog in the fight, but every time some good 'ol boy starts talking about the "War of Northern Aggression" I lose my mind. One of my good friends dated a girl from Georgia, and she did a pretty good impression of the pro-South side of this thread right now. I'm just tired of it.

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>>92655993
>I think the South is pretty cool, even though I've never been
I've been living in NC for 15 years now.

South fucking sucks dude.

>>92655977
>the South was concerned about a balance of power so that would have effective veto power against any perceived attacks on their state sovereignty
If you interpreted that as "it was about slavery then" then we've come in an impasse that won't be breached.

A more appropriate parallel is Britain and WW1. Saying Britain fought WW1 for guaranteeing Belgian Neutrality might be technically true, since the violation of Belgian Neutrality by Germany is why Britain declared war, but it ignores everything that lead up to that point and gives you a shallow understanding of why Britain and Germany were arrayed against each other in the first place.

>>92656008
Compared to where else?

>>92655993
The South is full of pro-Confederate rednecks if you don't live near major cities, they're pretty much racist to anyone who doesn't pass as white and will attack anyone if they look slightly foreign and tell them to go back to their own country, even if they born in America and lived in it for their whole life.

>>92656085
Literally the only thing that they wanted veto power for was legislation regarding slavery.

>>92656098
Wisconsin is a fantastic state and so is Oregon

>>92656100
The South is the least segregated place in the entire US. Northern whites left in droves when blacks started living near them. It's incredibly ironic when Northerners accuse the South of being racist when the North shunts all their blacks away in the inner-cities and forgets about them.

>>92655977
I wouldn't see it as a war about trans people, but rather a war about being legally forced to think a certain way that happened to be about trans people at the time.

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>>92656098
I lived in arizona before then. AZ is also full of rednecks and crazy shitlickers like Joe Arpaio, but goddamn the south is crazy with how much of cuntish, rude people they can be. Admittedly the 'nicest' people I knew in the south were in Richwood WV where I loved for 2-3 years or so before moving out. The rest of the time i've been living in Asheville and now Hendersonville NC. Asheville is pretty liberal for the south, but still fill of rednecks and morons. Just a lot of fags and hipsters infesting the breweries and expensive restaurants downtown.

States Rights are sacrosanct

the Fugitive Slave Law was a great idea

>>92655936
He phrased it kind of weird, but basically, right after the war, freed slaves had all the rights of normal citizens and were starting their own farms, people were coming down from the North to educate these freed slaves, and things were looking good. Fast-forward five to ten years and blacks are being lynched, burned at the stake, beaten and jailed. The northern "carpetbaggers" who came down to South were being run out and Jim Crow laws were instituted to keep black people from voting. What changed? Terror. The rise of groups like the KKK as well as other, smaller, organized groups created a campaign of bloodshed and scare tactics to enforce white control over the South. And for the most part, it totally worked.

>>92656008
I think I just really like the Southern accent

>>92656151
>Muh State Rights
>infringe on the rights of Northern state to accept runaway slaves

>>92656111
Look, it's obvious you haven't done any reading on the subject, you reacted with incredulity when you heard Abraham Lincoln didn't receive any Southern votes, presumably because it was the first time you've heard that. If you don't even know the basics of the contested election that was the flashpoint of the entire conflict, why do you think you know anything about the deeper causes? Do you even know what the Wilmot Proviso was?

>>92655993
>but every time some good 'ol boy starts talking about the "War of Northern Aggression" I lose my mind
When a country invades another country its often classified as aggression.

>>92656143
Admittedly that wasn't a terrific example. The exact issue wasn't terribly important to the point I was trying to make. I was scrambling to think of something far Left that "muh states rights" bro would find objectionable before this thread inevitably 404s.

>>92656155
Yup terrorism is apparently ok when it supports white interests. Fuck the South, Reconstruction should have broken the spirit of white dixies and killed those who resisted.

>>92653330
The immediate response to anyone who makes such an argument is "exact what right did the rebel states lose?"
Since, you know, other than printing their own currency there really only one big one.

>>92656155
Fair enough. But that wasn't really a concerted effort across the entire south, but local organizations, and lynchings as well as racial antipathy were not contained to the South either. Northerners protested violently at blacks moving into their states & cities.

>>92656210
>South attacking a federal fort
>Northern invasion

>>92656210
The American Civil War is a neutral term. Calling it , "The War of Northern Aggression," paints the South as a punch of halo-wearing martyrs screwed over by the big-bad Union.

>>92656205

I'm >>92655977 not >>92655569

Good job not responding to >>92656111 , though.

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>>92656147
I'm sure you know all about NC and the South in general from staying in a handful of cities. If everyone seems to be rude, maybe you just have an unlikeable face/personality.

>>92652567
You're right. Secession was about slavery. The Civil War was waged because the South attacked the North after the North didn't immediately act like the made-up legal action the south had just done held any merit.

>B-but I meant muh state's rights!
Barely even factored into it.

>>92656244
True. One of the two times the United States Airforce equipment was used against United States citizens was when a bunch of angry WW1 veteran pilots stole some planes from a military base and used them to bomb a black neighborhood.

>>92649789
>this fucking thread
>>>/his/

>>92656266
and I assume youre >>92655740 as well, and the way you nonchalantly portray the results of the election 'he won the electoral college, so what', without recognizing the implications of what that result meant for the south leads me to believe you were probably in the same boat as that other poster.

>>92656278
t. southerner

go spit out your chewing tobacco and bitch about some states rights, it'll make you feel better.

>>92656237
No, the example worked. Slavery was the state right being fought over at the time. Could have been the state right to jar your own peaches and would have been the same.

>>92656250
>> A Fort with foreign garrison illegally located on your soil
>> Is given time to be evacuated yet refuses to
>> Is being sent supplies and reinforcements
>How is that not a reason to attack it?

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>>92654644
It's real lefty stuff, so most of the people who are yelling at you probably won't listen, but Chapo did a really good interview with a civil war historian about exactly this.

https://soundcloud.com/chapo-trap-house/episode-50-akp-50th-episode-ergenekon-extravaganza-101716

(It's a 50th ep celebration so it's a bit frontloaded, the actual civil war stuff starts at 9:30)

>>92656319
>hurr the Union needed to bend over and take a bunch of bitching states claiming they were independent

Nope

>>92654854
>conquer the South and place its people under the thrall of the capitalist machine
>thrall means slave or slavery
>South was using these thralls for profit in a capitalist system
It's actually baffling. Literally everything is the opposite of what you said.

>>92656367
>Nope
Why?

>>92656238
Well they already burned towns and raped the women so I think the imaginary little social justice heroes you're projecting did a pretty good job.

>>92656386
Because the Union didn't recognize them and thus had every right to keep their fort.

>>92656283
The Civil War was the moment the US first showed the political hipocrisy they've been known for ever since.
>Local people have a right to self governance, the British shouldn't be ruling us from across the world
>What, half of our country bigger tham Europe wants to govern themselves rather than be governed by Washington? We can't have that!

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>>92656319
>It's illegal for the US to have a military base on US soil because plantation owners say "We're somehow not part of the US anymore!"
What the fuck am I reading?

>>92656410
So if Russia for example doesn't recognize the US it can freely march its troops across its soil? What kind of logic is that?

>>92656422
No, that was the whiskey rebellion.

>>92656427
>The states formed a Union by their own free will
>Decide to leave it
What is the problem here exactly?

>>92656468
>government should be this unstable

South hicks everyone

>>92656422
You'd make a great spin doctor for a political campaign. Need I remind you that secession happened directly in response to Lincoln's election which was intolerable to them, so any argument that the south's position was on the side of democracy is laughable right at the outset. Add to that that the constitution set out a perfectly fine system of self governance, but never had in it any method of secession, because its framers didn't think that was something that should be in there, whereas it has clear powers for the federal government to have the power to suppress insurrection.

>>92656433
Wow, that example is awful.

>>92656483
Its not about stability, its about peoples' right to govern themselves. Thats pretty much how the US were formed in the first place.

>>92656501
>only won 40% of the vote
Not democratic.

>>92656309
I'm not that same poster.

But look ... there's this thing democracies do called "voting." It's where you ask the population of a country to pick an answer to a question (IE: "Who's turn is it to be in charge?" or "Would this be a good new law?") The answer that gets the most votes is the one that the country goes with. Sometimes your side wins and sometimes your side loses. You might view this as The Many forcing their opinions on The Few and that's not entirely untrue, but in a lot of ways it's a pretty fair way to do things.

The South found themselves in a situation where they were The Few and decided "Hey, maybe we'll just make our own country?" so that their minority opinions could be acted upon without being bullied by the majority (which all lived far away in another place). So yes, secession was motivated by a lack of representation of the South's interests in the US government.

But here's the thing ... the only issue of any significance that the South and North differed on, and you can confirm this by reading each state's letters of secession which are all available online, was slavery. Seriously, go read those letters and hit ctrl+F for words like "slave" "slavery" "negro" "race" and "supremacy." It's pretty amazing. And this isn't coming from some East Coast elite college professor or some shit. It's literally spelled out in completely unambiguous terms by the leaders of the Southern states. It's a first hand primary source.

You did say something about Lincoln tampering with the 1860 election and not collecting votes from Southern States. I have not heard about this before, though truthfully I'm a big initially incredulous. I feel like if that were true and provable then every argument about The War's causes seriously buried the lead.

>>92656546
The electoral college says hi.

>>92656433
Ignoring your shit example.

The Union had no reason to give in to the Confederates or give up a federal fort.

The South could have tried diplomacy or biding their time with non-aggression until a foreign power supported them. But no, like dumb hicks they attacked first justifying Northern quelling of this insurgency.

>>92656468
The problem is that legally, they would have needed some kind of constitutional amendment to make secession constitutional. The 10th amendment gives powers to the states, but only those powers not granted to the federal government by the constitution, and the constitution has already said that it and the laws made by congress are the supreme law of the land, and nothing state legislatures do can undermine that. This means the South was still subject to US law, Lincoln was still their president, and their "secession" was meaningless.

So where does that leave Lincoln? "Oh, well I guess from now on we're just going to let states unilaterally do things that states aren't allowed to do, and our Union means nothing! Doop dee doo!" No. He knew they were on the verge of some kind of military action, and he had every right to keep a US base on US soil stocked and ready in case words became outright rebellion, which they did.

>>92656593
>Ignoring your shit example.
Ignoring your shit post.

>>92656566
The electoral college is anti-democratic. Do you know what 'democracy' means? It means literally 'citizens rule'. If a minority of people are foisting a decision on the majority, that's anti-democratic.

>>92656557
The point he's making is that the North could control the South, because they were the majority. No matter what, the South was going to lose elections from then on because they were the minority. So in a sense, their votes didn't "count" because the North could decide everything. They still actually tabulated all the votes and stuff.

>>92656626
Hurt your feelings hick?

>>92656630
Right. Except the one issue that The North was able to control in this case was slavery. Go read the letters of secession.

>>92656627
Do you know how Socrates died? Everyone voted to kill him. There was no fair trial, no checks and balances, and nothing to stop the tyrannical majority. Just because something is "democratic" doesn't make it right.

>>92656627
>Smaller groups shouldn't be given an artificial boost because it makes the majority have a worse output
Does that mean we can get rid of affirmative action?

>>92656669
I agree with you, I'm just explaining the whole "counting" thing, because I was confused at first as well.

>>92656682
I never said otherwise. I was only pointing out that saying Lincoln was "democratically chosen" doesn't hold water. If you want to debate on the efficacy of Democracy vs. Republicanism that's a different topic altogether,

>>92656729
We've never been a democracy though, we've always been a democratic republic.

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Is there a Civil War equivalent to Liberty's Kids?

>>92656630
Then the Civil War was a very important lesson for our budding democracy: sometimes you're outvoted. Sometimes in the participatory system you're part of, you're not going to get your way, because you're outnumbered by people who want something different for their government. And you can accept that possibility, and campaign harder, and make common cause, an eventually realize that some policy you like doesn't have the power to sustain itself, or you can throw a little bitchfit and attack your neighbors for voting differently, and get slapped so hard it still stings 150 years later. Popular rule means that the people rule, It doesn't mean that each man is his own king answerable to no one but himself, but I guess on their little private fiefdoms, the plantation owners had forgotten that.

>>92656775
This.

>>92656757
I never said otherwise to that. Which makes me wonder why you (or someone else) would use the argument that Abraham Lincoln had democratic legitimacy when America isn't a democracy nor was he democratically chosen by a majority of citizens. The founding fathers were anti-democratic in the way they set up America and purposely made choices that make it difficult for the majority to express their will. The constitutional amendment process is extraordinarily rigorous for this reason.

>>92656775
I'd argue it was more a case that they hadn't forgotten anything on their fiefdoms. Rather, they were aware how at risk they were of losing them, and to do so would mean either an end of their livelihoods and/or a costly attempt to restructure themselves economically. And so many problems, and demonizations, and deaths of empathy arise from the fear that you or your family won't have enough.

I mean, their 'enough' was being obtained through fucking slavery, so it's a bit indefensible in retrospect, but still.

>>92656768
There's an episode of Adventures in Odyssey

>>92656844
This I agree with. I still feel like is it was legally and morally wrong, in addition to taking a self-serving view of what self rule meant, but I can see why they felt as desperate as they did to do something to save their institution.

>>92649789

A bit too complex for this show, which seems perfectly content to not explain much of anything at all.

>>92655267

Yes, because nobody ever does the right thing without ulterior motives.

>>92655349

Well, everybody knows that don't they?

Lincoln personally opposed slavery, but as President he said he would do whatever he needed to to keep the South in the Union.

>>92650248
the gems are reactionary idiot, if you haven't been paying attention

>>92652567
yeah I went to a shitty small town school too, then I went to college and got the internet

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>>92655755
well isn't that cute

>>92655806
>New Yorkers
hey don't let those fuckers stand for all of us. The fact that they'd want to go to your school probably means they're the rejects of new york anyway

Holy shit /co/ really is the worst board about avoiding bait.

>>92657936
this is old news

>>92650110
Why would Hitler be into Pearl since she resembles a jew?

>>92658147
She's blonde and blue-eyed.

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>>92649789
finally an excuse to post this

>>92656239
The right to peaceful secession.

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>>92652567
>Dixies still using this meme
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pcy7qV-BGF4

>>92658302
clearly not the case since brexit happened

>>92655701

Reminder that Southcucks are sorer losers than England.

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>>92658355
>PragerU

>>92652567
I mean... technically it wasn't, but it was heavily tied to the economic motives behind the war.

>>92652567
>people memeing a correct answer
Even funnier from the country that revolted over tax policy.

The SECESSION was about slavery. For the aristocracy and major players of the South, who signed off. The farmer sided with his land, the generals sided with their homes. The right of that peaceful secession was in the core, but that core was about the right of slavehood.

BUT THAT DOES NOT MEAN THE WAR WAS ABOUT SLAVERY

The WAR was about Lincoln's refusal to accept secession and the crises involving military forts and the dispersal or transference of them. Military escalation began a Northern campaign to attack the Southern States, (hence the term War of Northern Aggression) and while abolition was part of the cultural clash it wasn't until several years later that it became a legal issue. To frame the war as a war about slavery is to frame the whole North as some moral crusader and the whole South as some wicked beast, sick with cultural hate and stubbornness.

And I'll admit that we Southerners have our hearts and our hardness on our sleeve, and we have our share of sin and manipulation, the banner of Dixie is not about the countrymen of Louisiana or Alabama, but about you. You Northern who framed my ancestors as wicked, who portrayed my Appalachian brothers as incestuous rapists, or my children as decidedly retarded. For culturally and economically forcing the accent I was born with to be seen as improper or unintelligent. To chastise the people of the South for hate, and see nothing wrong with coded terms and hushed breaths that cover what we Southerners know and accept about living together rather easily. The banner and the rally is for YOU, to remind you that we are still a proud people, and while you tear down our statues of fallen generals and soldiers, while you burn our flags or tell us we were wrong for believing in our families, we do not go to that zeitgeist willingly. It is waved to remind you that this is a marriage at gunshot, and it may still break down. So mind your Ps and Qs about my heritage, and I'll mind mine on yours.

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>>92658382
>the European Union is the United States
>the end of the Civil War means nothing can secede peacefully from anything ever again

>>92658533
> the accent I was born with
Nice pasta

>>92650110

Rose Quartz told Hitler that his paintings were nice, averting both World War II and the Holocaust.

>>92658355
Isn't that guy actual right-wing propaganda

>>92656546
40% of the popular vote is still the majority from that election by a wide margin. Stop trying to imply that the 1860 election had the same kind of political hellscape we have today where the choice is binary.

>>92658533
>You Northern who framed my ancestors as wicked, who portrayed my Appalachian brothers as incestuous rapists, or my children as decidedly retarded. For culturally and economically forcing the accent I was born with to be seen as improper or unintelligent. To chastise the people of the South for hate, and see nothing wrong with coded terms and hushed breaths that cover what we Southerners know and accept about living together rather easily. The banner and the rally is for YOU, to remind you that we are still a proud people, and while you tear down our statues of fallen generals and soldiers, while you burn our flags or tell us we were wrong for believing in our families, we do not go to that zeitgeist willingly. It is waved to remind you that this is a marriage at gunshot, and it may still break down. So mind your Ps and Qs about my heritage, and I'll mind mine on yours.


tl:dr

>oy vey you have stereotyped my people, that's antisemetic goy
Immediately followed by
>all you goys are exactly the same and just persecute us poor poor chosen people but we're still proud

fuck off milkdud

>>92650110
>>92658599
So does this mean the painting or Rose in Steven's house is a Hitler original?

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>>92658599
>averting World War 2 and the holocaust
No no no, World War 1 was bound to force the hand of the Germans to World War 2 Hitler or no, you don't have dadaist millionaire jews walking about in fur robes after trying to take over the country with communism, among people carrying wheelbarrows of money to buy bread, and NOT get a backlash.
More like
>Hitler goes to the hospital after he was mustard gassed in World War 1 at October 1918, furious he can't be with his brethren at the trenches
>the Crystal Gems are working the Red Cross
>Rose Quartz heals him, so he's more stable physically when the news arrives that the war will end
>Hitler is furious, that for all he fought for he lost
>Rose Quartz sympathizes and offers the man future consultation
>the Treaty of Versailles plays out as it does in our line, most of Hitler's activities and his events to the Beer Hall riots play out as planned
>Hitler is placed in jail, and to deal with his time, contacts Rose who provides portals out of jail for nighttime talks
>Hitler explains his fury for his culture's displacement and the forces behind it, but Rose helps him to understand the way of German culture need not expand to a paradigm shift for the planet, and that people should see your successes first and come to your side in time
>Hitler's tempered directives emerge in the book Mein Hoffnung, where he has tempered and better directed his nationalist furvor to a love of his people, and the history, and their potential out of this struggle session, and not intermixed with his fears and rejection
>Hitler rises politically and wins in 1930 the seat of Chancellor and his party's majority, and begins an economic revival of the nation through national socialist policies, and also begins to coordinate with Zionists to ethnically segregate peacefully the jewish underclasses in Germany to the Zion partition plan
>Hitler's Germany became a rock against stormy economic times, and his nationalist fervor bought Europe's favor

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>>92658933
>the annexations leading up to the war were mutual unification desires, buffered only by a further enraged Soviet Union
>unlike before, though, in this timeline the Crystal Gems, through political meetings Rose Quartz and her people were invited to, convinced the other Western Powers to support German revival, and to renegotiate WWI burdens, so relations were far better
>war came unfortunately in 1936, as the Polish question forced Stalin and Hitler to war, but unlike before, Western Europe slowly came to Hitler's side, France, Britain, even the United States
>Japanese sided against the Soviets, and began their own national empire, but barring Soviet intervention in politics for their and US's cores, never sought the holdings of America, and due to the lack of territory due to the hole in their country, fell to German expansion
>Lebensraum and national ethnic expansion created a German hegemon in Eastern Europe, as the Third Reich began as a Union of Europe, with its Western counterparts
>Jerusalem in the new forces of the League of Nations was established as a state of religious importance, and given control by no power, as a matter of migration and cultural importance for all, mentored by the world powers and held in peace
>Jews in Germany and Israel were relocated to Madagascar, renamed new Zion, as part of coordination with the European colonial efforts, and regained new cultural cohesion as an autonomous people of national holding, becoming strong trading partners with Rhodesia and South Africa
>Hitler passed on 1958, Der Fuhrer, and his people remembered his strong-arm nationalism fondly as Europe continued its expansion through acquisitons in Africa
>Rose Quartz is presented on Hitler's last paintings, learning that he kept up the trade long after they met, as he saw HER hand as the one that gave him inspiration to unite Europe as he did
Rose Quartz helped make sure Hitler did Nothing Wrong.

>>92658933
>>92658956
As retarded and fucking stupid this is, its also amusing at the same as a bunch of crypto-pol autists put more thought in SU's world buidling than the fucking writers themselves.

>>92659020
>As retarded and fucking stupid this is
I thought it was neat.

>>92659033
Well I did mention its also amusing and downright entertaining, right? Again, all these crypto-pol autists put more thought into Steven Universe's lore and worldbuilding than the fucking show creator and hack writers themselves.

>>92658933
>>92658956
What about Hitler's three main stooges? Hermann Goring, Joeseph Goebells and Himmler?

Herman Goring becomes a more peaceful civlian air marshall instead and alos thinner?

Heinrich Himmler instead beomces a more succesful chicken farmer and gave birth to "Himmler Farms" branded chicken and polutry?

And Goebells is now the type of propaganda minister who promotes cuddly diversity and unity?

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>>92658355
This is beautiful.
Southerners are fucking nazis, confederates are black-haters, slavers and sunavabitches.
Cristal clear.

>>92658933
What does Mein Hoffnung mean though? Oposite of Mein Khampf???

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>>92659086
>Heinrich Himmler instead beomces a more succesful chicken farmer and gave birth to "Himmler Farms" branded chicken and polutry?

>ywn eat himmler nuggies while sitting in commie free america with a space babe made of rocks

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>>92659086
The better question, is what happens to Reinhard Heydrich?

>>92659158
means "my hope"

>>92655836
>Complaining a federal fort on federal soil is illegal
>When secession is illegal in the first place

>>92652567
Fucking well baited anon.
Holy shit you guys are easy to rustle.

>>92659086
No Goring still lead the Luftwaffe, and continues their military presence in German life, but later expanded the technology to space travel, (albiet with a slice of the moon as off-limits to expansion, per the wishes of the Crystal Gems). Mars has few humans, due to the Union's colonialist pushes bogging down travel, but a colony does exist in small numbers.
Himmler's animist passions helped him to foster the Gottgläubig movement into a neo Paganist movement to reconnect with German pre-Christian spirituality, as a sort of Shintoist parallel to life. Counter-culturals frame it as 'State Dogma' but most Gottians are seen as good people albiet esoteric and rural. Most in the urban centers have just become atheist.
And Goebells influenced post-1940s Berlin movie productions as he moved to the private sectors as an euntrepenuer, and funded Leni Riefenstahl's film schools in quality nationalist and historical films that shaped the legacy of filmmaking for decades ahead.

>>92659285
>Nazi's take over
>Germany becomes atheist
that wouldn't happen.

>>92658956
Judaism as a religion doesn't exist in Steven Universe because Rose squashed the weird volcano religion before it could really get started and also there was a major planetary war going on at the time.

>>92655836
bad tactics.

you wanna cut off its supply line and keep it surrounded until the people inside are stuck choosing between starving to death and surrender

>>92659161
Reinhard Heydrich becomes the next best architect in building the greatest housing in all of Germany and wins a medal or prize for it, as opposed to the hack-architect Speer.

And I guess Josef Mengele has become the greatest medical doctor throughout Germany for the next fifty years. With the help of retro-graded gem tech of course.

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>demagoguery is a okay!

Civilization isn't intended to function on such a large imperial scale that ultimately supresses the rights of some for the rights of others for purely geographical reasons.

The United states will inevitably galvanize once times get tough, and believe me, it's gonna get very tough. US prosperity was a fluke.

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>>92658956

Would Soviet Union even exist on SU Earth? I mean most of northern Asia -is- a giant water-filled crater...

>>92659356
it did before germany and america decided to take it off the map

in cannon the corruption bomb probably did that.

>>92659161

Is that Markiplier's ancestor?

>>92659356
Well considering that marxism only took hold because of the extreme poverty of the serfs and the incompetence of the tsar, the intellectual ivory tower that it sprung from wouldn't have taken roots there. It'd make sense that communism would spread in Africa given that it's a smaller continent mostly robbed of its natural resources and given to south america, leading to ostensibly worse poverty. It's actually spreading very militants there today in some countries, along with islamism.

Maybe it'd be some kind of strange combination of the two, Islamic communism.

>>92659400
Markiplier looks like a hapa so I doubt it.

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>>92659428
>Theocratic militant communism with a kebab twist

DELET THIS

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>>92649789

>>92650248
The Gems know dick all about humans even after thousands of years on the planet.

>>92659468
Do you mean Rojava?

>>92656328
I'm gonna listen to this purely to hear the arguments. Never heard a rational, reasonable statement arguing against the common thread.

>>92656310
To be fair, city people are rude cunts the world over.

>>92656757
A republican union of equal democratic sovereign states, where the tyranny of the majority problem with democracy still affects the USA at the inter-state level.

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>>92657840

>>92652567
Any good historian will tell you no single war was fought over a single main reason. Pop history on the other hand boils it down to one reason so that they can sell a story with a good guy and a bad guy.

>>92652567
>confederatards: in AMERICA I have FREEDOM of SPEECH, and that's why I bear this flag!
>also confederatards: *neglect to acknowledge the fact that their flag represents people who were fighting back against America*

>>92660172
>retards: lol at this moron being a liar and a idiot
>also retards: *neglects to acknowledge the fact that they're fighting strawmen*

>>92660240
>cousinfuckers: call people retards
>also cousinfuckers: *forget that nobody is arguing with the fact that Normies v Cousinfuckers wasn't over slavery*

>>92660240
>tfw the Gadsden flag was waved during the war against England for American colonial rights

>>92660078
>Nearly every declaration of secession cites slavery as the main reason for secession
>Historical consensus is that the Civil war revolved around slavery

Fuck off back to /pol/ with your bullshit

>>92660270
>still battling strawmen
daily life must be hard when you're so dumb

>>92660311
nobody's battling strawmen at all anon, you're just not emotionally equipped to argue with a guy like me.

It's okay, you're probably rarely right about anything, so nobody expects you to win against someone who consistently knows what they're talking about.

>>92655639
To keep slavery.

>>92655639

And south wanted to secede because they would lose their slaves otherwise, as northern states began banning slave ownership.

>>92660348
>strawman
>+ ad hominem
the Gadsden flag has been waved against perceived authoritarian governments since the war for independence from England and that not allowing the states to secede peacefully regardless of the reason was an overstep of the federal government.
your
>conservtards don't know what their flag means
is a bullshit attack with no grounds anywhere but your headcannon of US history.

step up before you start talking shit and make an ass of yourself

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>>92652567
>mfw dumb white people and nigs say otherwise
It's also hysterical when I hear dumbasses talk about Lincoln as if he were some sort of deity. He was planning on literally sending blacks back to Africa, but retarded Leftists tend to overlook that little tidbit.

>>92660461
>He was planning on literally sending blacks back to Africa
it was central america because the niggers that sold the slaves wouldn't treat them well if they were returned and he never pushed it publicly and barely pushed it in private.

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>>92660450
>bitches about strawmen
>attacks a strawman about another anon's post
Please regard my smug reaction image

Also,
>make an ass of yourself
>unironic use of the phrase "step up" outside of references to a shitty dance movie

>>92660501
>can't step up
>pretends to talk shit like he won
are you black or just college "educated"

>>92657277
>because nobody ever does the right thing without ulterior motives
>what is politics

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>>92660525
>continued unironic use of "step up"
Confirmed white guy who went to black high school
>pretends to talk shit like he won
>pretends
No no son, I am most definitely talking shit to you. There's no pretending about it.
>college "educated"
>misuses the word "strawman" twice per post
>fails to explain the strawman
>only displays a basic knowledge of two of the logical fallacies

Your move, fuckboy

>>92660599
>still not disproving that the Gadsden flag is used properly by confederates
you haven't moved since I said step up for the first time faggot, it's not my fault that you're literally too retarded to argue properly

>>92660653
Of course I haven't fucked with whatever your whiny Gadsden shit is, it wasn't MY argument. That was a totally different anon. This whole conversation is basically the equivalent of you screaming in a completely different direction while I try to have an actual discussion with you

>>92660501
>>92660599
I have no stake in this conversation but I do know which of you I'd like to see get hit by a bus.

>>92649789
>No african slavery
>blacks are still allowed in the USA

This doesnt add up at all.

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>>92659086
>Herman Goring becomes a more peaceful civlian air marshall instead and alos thinner?
Animal wellfare

>>92660700
>it wasn't MY POST that was wrong! I SWARE I was JUST Posting a strawman about your argument construing it to be about the civil war and not an attack on the strawman that was "the use of the Gadsden flag is improper for conservatives because it meant fuck america"
yeah ok m8
have fun making bullshit arguments unrelated to other bullshit arguments and getting called a retard for it.

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>>92660812
Haha, that's right viewers. I knew ALL ALONG he actually thought I mentioned the Gadsden flag in any of my posts! I just wanted to see if he needed my help to realize the truth, and he did!

Also, who do you think you're fooling with >>92660730 ?

>>92652567
>Muh states rights
The South were a bunch of hypocrites who violated the rights of other states (Fugitive Slave Act) and were even more centralized than the Union, and now the whole idea of States' Rights is posioned because of them

>>92652567
It was fought over both slavery and states rights. The north held the power to outvote the south on any political issue, while the south were getting ready to cut themselves off into a new country. Since the north didn't particularly need slavery, banning it was an easy way to cripple the south's economy to the point where it couldn't try to break off again.

Both sides were just using slavery for political means, similar to when slave owners pushed to give them voting rights. Neither side really gave much of a shit about the morality of it, other than the north needing a better justification for it than "fuck the south".

>>92654779
Prove it

>>92657840
>college
>unbiased

Lol

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>tfw you're from the South
>tfw you know more black people, and get along with them better than any of your white Northern friends
Checkmate Yankee.

>>92662489

Yeah, but my father and mother bring me two sets of grandparents.

>>92649789
>>92649789
HomerSimpsonAlmostKillsAladdin.png
Leaks when?

>>92662489
People in the North are just assholes, though.
It's to cold up here to be polite.

>>92649789
>In the Steven Universe timeline the Confederacy won the Civil War due to Crystal Gem intervention.
>After all of this, the two warring nations merged
So they didn't win then.

>>92660461
Technically the plan was for america to use it's resources to help jumpstart a new nation for freed slaves in africa since most american slaves were so far removed from the culture of their ancestors.

>>92652567
>all these replies
historycucks never fail to amuse me

>>92662544
Look, this was just an excuse to shitpost about the Civil War.


I'm just waiting for somebody to start shitposting about the correct sauce to use when barbecuing.

>>92657840
One of my college professors actually taught that the Civil War wasn't about slavery. He was a Brit, though.

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>>92658615
Yup. Uncanny with their insertions, too. I've had PragerU ads try to sell me on voucher schools, the fundamental requirement of religion to be an ethical person, and how fucking great bank deregulation was, on literal Slavoj Zizek videos.

>>92662794
The British unironically erect statues of their greatest villains, so I'm not really sure they do anything other than be contrarian assholes.

>>92663162
>erect statues of their greatest villains
Who?

>>92652567
You're an idiot.

>Not fought for slavery
>Just our states rights, which just happened to include slavery.

>All this US centric wank

>>92666682
Disregard, I thought it was a cropped image

>THE WAR WAS ABOUT STATE'S RIGHTS NOT SLAVERY!
>that's why the confederate constitution forced every state to allow slavery

Really gets the noggin joggin.

>>92659356
Siberia is gone for sure, but not whole Russia
If that was before humans, it could be that where is a Russia on the left and on the other side of crater whole other country (possibly it's Chinese or Mongolian territory).

>>92659356

I always try to imagine just what human history would look like with a map like that. I imagine some pretty radical changes would happen because of this, not to mention the environmental changes that would occur in a number of them.

Russia would probably still exist, but would likly not be as spread out. The area east of it would probably be dominated by tribes who may or may not be over taken by the Japanese Empire when they arrive on the scene, as I doubt even if the Russians wanted to expand to there they would probably have trouble holding it.

>>92652567
Guaran-fucking-teed replies.

>>92655867
The north still had child labor and indentured servitude that often technically became illegal slavery. You can't challenge your rights as a servant if you're illiterate and don't speak english.

The bitching about crops was more that the federal government and its tariffs on imported/exported goods. Taxes were set up to favor the northern economy of finished textiles and shit on the southern one of raw material.

>>92660348
I can smell your smug anime girl folder from here

>>92655619
>t. Tumblr

this thread went off rail fast. so instead lets dedicate this thread to creating alternate events due to crystal gem's interference.
>there was only one crusade, and it was won by the jews. the gems couldn't decide who to support, the christians or the muslims, so they flipped a coin.
>it landed on it's side so they just decided to help the jews get the holy land back, helping make israel the largest empire in region by accident.

>>92656008
>South fucking sucks dude.
Your food up here fucking sucks and you bitch about the weather being to hot or too cold. I miss FL just to make a decent meal without it being fucking frozen for centuries.

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>>92655977
I'd tell them they're right.

Unless the reasons for separation officially listed trans rights as being the reason for separation.

America, the only place where we elect monuments to traitors of the country.

>>92655993
Living in the south sucks dude.

If you must do it I suggest:

1. Live in a blue bubble city.
2. Don't be a minority.

The people are a lot nicer (upfront) compared to their northern counterparts but it is pure sicking how much the politicians push the states into becoming Iran Jr and the people just follow along blindly. Hell in Alabama we have an "unofficial" religious office that receives tax payer funding.

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>>92649789
I know this is probably fake, but if it's not I seriously consider throwing eggs at the CN headquarters.

Jesus Christ.

Also are there no nukes in SU's universe?

>>92657840

And you learned nothing, apparently.

>>92655977

Yes. It has nothing to do with trans rights. Trans rights are the "straw that broke the camel's back," but not the casus belli. The casus belli in this case being "state rights and preserving the Union."

>>92649789
Another one of Sugar's masterful storytelling and worldbuilding. Better than Tolkien.

The world being marred by the constant battle between good and evil and becoming round because of human ambition daring to challenge even the gods? Fuck that, just have Confederates winning the Civil War, and have the continents fucked up for no reason.

>>92667692
It's a smug Jojo folder, you plebian

>>92670460

What the fuck is that pic?